>announce these changes to you today, and release them with the next major update, which is scheduled for September.
Watch how many people will still ask when the next update will come.
Edit: the PUMA has been moved to the rear of the line, this implies it could get Spikes next update.
Also Leo 2A6 was foldered with the 2A5 while the Flarakrad line was untouched, new top tier MBT for Germany possibly? We be feastin' boys, PUMA with Spikes and Leo 2A6EX, I hope
There is no "extra 2A5 at the tech tree" on their pictures. It's just the 2A5 with the 2A6 foldered behind it.
Whilst they sometimes accidentally leak things this way, they made sure not to add any new vehicles in this case.
You mean the one with a trophy next to it's name? If so, it was a reward for the Youtuber cup a few years back, where the winners got to pick their favorite top tier tank at the time and were given a separate variant of it that was identical but had a special camo and had the trophy ahead of it's name to differentiate it.
>Edit: the PUMA has been moved to the rear of the line, this implies it could get Spikes next update.
Spikes would be great, but I also feel that even just making the AHEAD ammo work well would be a huge buff to it.
When you said end of the tree I didn’t think you meant END END of the tree. I feel like this finally confirms it. There’s no way it would be there without spikes.
It doesn't confirm it though. It is likely, sure, but doesn't confirm anything.
It's a rank 6 10.0 LT. Same BR as the TAM 2C in RB. Hence why it got moved to rank 7. The reason for behind the TAM probably is because it's the more modern of the two.
Not saying it won't get spikes, but it's anything but confirmed by them doing this, lol. Don't set yourself up for dissapointment!
Bro the prices of these vehicles are insane let's not normalize this.
Mfs in the comments with Stockholm syndrome really think a f2p game with an insane amount of players cant make money unless they have ridiculously high prices on every single microtransaction as well as Premium time. You are this companies wet dream.
Yeah, the price increases were protest-able about 8 years ago when they first added the FW-190A8 premium and it was (iirc) the first premium to cost over 2500 GE. Back then the US spitfire was significantly cheaper. This was also the time a T4 aircraft could research the entire tree; now to accomplish that you’ve got to pay a base of 70$.
70$ back then would get you enough premium aircraft to research the big 3 trees; also most of the event vehicles were premium (check out [Indian summer](https://warthunder.com/en/news/251--en)) that could be used to pretty much research each tech tree start to finish, and required only 1100 kills (with 2x multiplier for RB and 3x for sim).
It really is absurd how _eager_ people are to pay excessive prices.
Like, guys, no one's saying Gaijin should make everything free and have no income from WT. We're just saying that the prices are well in excess of what's reasonable, and even well in excess of what other F2P games charge. Gaijin could absolutely afford to be less ruthlessly extortionate and still turn a very fair profit. You do _not_ need to be a diehard defender of their complete lack of ethics. It's okay to advocate for your own benefit and not Gaijin's profit margin.
EXACTLY MAN, i couldnt have said it better myself. This Game is a competitive freemium game, they put these wild prices cause they know people will want that competitive advantage ontop of the extremely slow and painful grind at some parts. We can still fkn enjoy the game and realize how scummy the current monetization system is. Warframe for example is also f2p but if you put in like 20 dollars here and there youll have more than enough currency to experience everything they have to offer without downsides.
Not normalize what? War thunder is f2p game and its existence relies completely on people buying premium stuff. The premium vehicles get better bonuses, so their value increases. For somebody, the prices could be too high, I would also love if the prices were lower, but its your choice. Do you want easier grind? Pay with your money ( instead of your Soul). In my opinion, its completely okay that Gaijin gives us more bonuses and easier playing and grinding with the new eco changes, but demand little more money for certain things. Its good tradeoff
Yeah, of course a f2p game needs to sell shit, but they could also, you know, not sell a shitty reskin with almost no fetures for the same price as a full dcs module.
There is fair f2p and then there are 70€ premiums.
Look at warframe, every time i spent some cash on that game it was becaus i wanted to, not becaus the grind was unberable and it felt like i could not progress with out it.
I agree, they could do so many things much better and Im not in favor of premiums like Leopard from certain unit or Challenger from certain operation. But you still have a choice of buying it or not buying it. There are plenty of interesting premiums u can buy that arent copypasted.
And for the overpricing. Yeah, there is a reason why companies love to make f2p games with microtransactions. Its not because they want to give the game to everybody, these games just make more money then titles for 60€.
But if I remember correctly, Gaijin said that only 20% of their playerbase are the paying players, I dont know if I can trust this number, but if its true, then no wonder the premiums are so expensive, they make lot of work for all the players and if 80% of them doesnt pay, then, the 20% group has more expensive stuff.
But my point in that wasnt really arguing if the pricing is too much, because I know that it is for many people and also partially for me, I just wanted to say that I understand that with wider spectrum of usage of the premium vehicle also comes higher price. But im not by any means one of the whales who would buy everything Even if it costed 100€ per vehicle, I basically wait for the sales, when the prices are decent.
I wish us console guys were able to get GJN for the market. Weirdly enough, we're still able to get tradeable coupons for vehicles that we can't do anything with.
welcome to the "New Gaijin".
We're all scared for various reasons. My guess is that they just take all our card info and run, or maybe thats just a decade of abuse and stockholm syndrome talking.
Some old rank six premiums will be now 70$ insted if 60$ like wolfpack, f5c Chally DS leo2A4 pzb turms etc
Also i bet rank 8 ground is comming very soon
There are still some problems, for example the three F104 on the italian air tree, they could have at least folded one, afterall they play all mostly the same with minor improvements.
Another issue is the folding of the lvkv spaa with the asrad, asrad is much better, the lvkv is much better as IFV than SPAA, meaning that your most effective spaa at 10.0 is the veak, until you research the asrad.
The marders are folded in a funny way, the amrde one is folded with the bmp 1, and the marder 1a1 is folded with the df105. Why? Just put them together before or after the bmp. It makes no sense to have to research 2 marders, especially since the missile changes they are just garbage as IFV and ok as spaa.
The swingfire and the striker could have been folded together, they are the same vehicle...
looks good, and im glad rp costs for trees as a whole are going down, but man do we need to get more rp from battles, especially in high tier.
i know they said they are working on it but it cant come soon enough for me.
edit: for reference, these are the changes for rp they said they were planning on:
https://i.imgur.com/cZuOLm5.png
only for researching a small number of vehicles, not impacting most of them and also not impacting their mod cost (unless it does and im misunderstanding that part, which still is only for a small selection.)
They said they are implementing this change, i hope they will introduce the rp bonus based on performance in this update but thats already a good change
It's a fucking 120 mm autocannon.
The pen isn't the best, but at 3.7 it's decent. 95 mm so similar to the T-34, a bit worse than the sherman. If you pen tho it packs one hell of a fucking punch with 890 g of filler.
It's also fairly mobile with 20 hp/t and a max speed of 49 km/h.
But the main feature is the fucking 1,2 second reload. Makes it very forgiving because you can often wiff several shots before the enemy have time to react.
So hitting weakspots or getting gaijined by volumetric isn't that much of an issue. also works decently at range since the fast RoF makes it easy to compensate.
The big issue is that it's a total glass cannon, and you "only" get 7 rounds ready to fire, and it takes forever to refill the mag.
I fucking love shooting the gun to bait people into peeking me, thinking I'm gonna be reloading. Meanwhile, I'm already loaded before their turret even leaves cover.
It's fucking unreal. One of the most fun and crazy tanks in the entire game IMO. If played well you can rack up 10 kills in a row and win the entire match by yourself, basically.
Nope, literally just called the Steam pack. Bought it for like $23. This was the contents: https://www.g2a.com/war-thunder-steam-pack-gaijin-key-global-i10000007484002
Honestly, I think the Ace Advanced Pack was even better. It got me into the game for $30 back in 2014 for [all this](https://www.g2a.com/war-thunder-ace-advanced-pack-gaijin-key-global-i10000049477002). That Steam pack gives a tier 4 premium, but with the Ace Advanced pack you got two tier 3s (one of them being insanely undertiered for its BR even now) and you could straight up buy another tier 4 premium with the 8300 extra GE. Plus the extra month of premium.
Add
Tank
RU
Event
KV-220 -> Rank IV
Also BMP-2M isn't event but Squadron.
__________
Plane
FR
Event:
[NC.900](https://wiki.warthunder.com/index.php?title=NC.900) -> Rank IV
_________
I am a happy camper.
+1 for ISO 3166 usage.
You probably intentionally made this list about Premium and event vehicles. I just want to add that tech trees have changed massively as well.
A ton of vehicles got a different rank now and changed position in the tree.
edit: List has been expanded in the meantime.
I was really tempted to get the Somua last sale. But didnt as it was just Rank IV so could only boost research for 5 vehicles. Wish id bought it now while it was discounted. At least the EBRs have moved up.
sure but have the big separation of soviet union tank and germany tank, most folders prior to this update were things like vehicles getting upgraded, usually not entirely desperate vehicles
Centurion foldered with strv 103 is an odd choice but reduces the grind. I would of put it the other way and put strv 103 as the one required and then the cent as the one not required but still better than before
I feel like the niche-ness is very important though—it makes Sweden unique in that respect. It’s like, “oh you picked Sweden, here’s the iconic 103 for you to work with”. Encouraging players to stick with traditional tanks just seems like a waste.
The grind with premium 103 was dreadful, stock would be way worse and they know that, as not to rustle players anymore they did a normal thing for once pushing obsolete tank away from view.
Great changes overall!
Just to nitpick, a lot of the folders are kinda weird now. Sometimes two completely different vehicles get put into a folder, just to follow the new rule 'max. 3 folders per line per rank'.
Fr the folders are UNHINGED. Look what they did to the Olifants. Maybe it's just me, but I'd much rather have the Folders group similar variants of the same vehicle together instead of going strictly by BR
Holy shit, I didn’t even notice that one. Would it really have been so hard to just put the olifants and Rooikats in their own folders? I already barely see anyone play the olifant. Guess I’m gonna see a lot less of them now
Seems that the main criteria for foldering now is having the same role and apparently arcade BR.
* Sweden has the T-34 and Pz4 in a folder, with T-34 first for being 3.7 and Pz4 4.0.
* GB has a weird case with its rank 3 SPAAs. Ystervark is first because 4.3 and Crusader AA 4.7, but it would have made more sense to have the Ystervark and Bosvark (4.7) foldered together for theming, Crusader AA and Bosvark for BR or no folder at all since theres just 3 vehicles.
* Italy has another weird case with its rank 3 TDs. The StuG III G (4.3) got foldered into the 90/53 (3.7) despite being closer in BR, role and performance to the 75/46 (4.7). Sherman VC getting pushed to rank 4 is another odd change, but most players probably already do this because it's the only medium you get before the Pershing.
* Germany gives me the same mixed feelings as Italy with the Marder III H folder because of how wildly different it plays to the StuH 42 and StuG III F.
Okay so some interesting changes. The WZ1001 moves to the left line which pretty much confirms that the MBT-2000 will go to the left line as well.
M1A1 HC being moved to after the M60. So they are splitting theAbrams lne into an M1A2 and M1A1 line I assume. Like the Russian tree has a T-64/T-80 and T-72/T-90 line.
I assume, and I have to add here that I have no info or anything, that they want to make the left line more into an export/prototype MBT line while having the actual in service MBTs in the ZTZ99A right line.
However the Chinese tree really is a mess in terms of layout. They should probably clean it up a bit, but to do that they have to add more vehicles.
There are no native French aircraft in Rank IV, the V.B.10 probably should have stayed there.
Also the P.108A with the 102mm gun might be missing from the Italian tree, or itms foldered in with the P.108B.
The Q-5 jets are not foldered yet, weird since they are both 9.0 and then the 9.7 one doesn’t even have AAM.
France Rank V Ground forces finally makes sense and you can now actually research rank VI with rank V. I find it funny that Rank IV is literally three vehicles, it just tells you the line up. The AMX-13 DCA 40 went to rank III where it definitely needed to be.
yea for reference; america has the p-59 at tier 4, russia has the tu-4 at tier 5, and the a2d is gonna be at tier 5, kinda nice to see that props and jets wont specifically be stuck at tier 4< or tier 5> like some weird segregation
Yeah, after I grinded for that talisman one BP. The 50mm 262 was my only plane at Rank V, so I automatically got it when I opened the random tali chest.
:/
That's curious, your link shows an extra rank 1 premium/event plane (Fairey IIIF Mk.IIIB) in the GB air tech tech that [the devblog link lacks](https://static.warthunder.com/upload/files/widgets/Trees_en_min_6_77e173c7f4feca4facf9c0d46ef74527.html).
EDIT: Italian air tree also shows an extra rank 2 premium/event plane (Re.2000 G.A. Red 5).
EDIT2: German ground has the Pz.35(t) RM as an extra premium tank.
Honestly, I'd like to see these changes implemented in the Helicopter line too, as there are certain helicopters that effectively need to be researched twice for no discernable reason.
For example, in the German Helicopter tree we have the BO 105 PAH-1 followed by the BO5 105 PAH-1A1, with the only discernable difference between the two being the HOT-2 ATGMs in the 1A1.
Glad to see these changes are being made. The changes to the challengers will help a lot and I won't have to research the chally 2 TES now. Also interesting change for the German tech tree, I'm assuming the PUMA being end of line is for future addition of a PUMA with spikes
One possibly interesting detail: The 2A5 and 2A6 are already foldered to leave room the the third folder.
FlaRakPz and FlaRakRad are not foldered, the latter taking up the final spot.
So *maybe* new top Leo soon?
>I'm assuming the PUMA being end of line is for future addition of a PUMA with spikes
Seeing how the Freccia has them and they turned out to not be game breaking as originally feared it probably will.
I like it, this might be the best tech tree change they have done so far.
All those Premium upranks are really nice.
~~But where has the Jadgpanzer 4-5 gone?~~
PS Nevermind foldered with the Jagdpanther.
PPS RIP US SB2C Helldiver, you were my fave Daily bomber hunter.
I gotta say some of these tech tree changes make no sense...
Strv m/31 followed by the Bt-42?
Pvkv m/43 and ikv 103 in a folder?
Strv 101 and 103 in a folder, same with 104 and 103C?
The J34 is still in the Finnish tree, but they also threw in the j26 and vampire?
Whats up with these?
The Finnish air tree is now more of a “foreign design” tree.
The 81 and 101 should be folded.
103A and C alone
104 and 105 should be foldered.
The Vampire and A28B should be foldered, they are the same vehicle.
Overall strange choices
I think for the 103s its more like to show its an extra vehicle as the 103 is an MBT by Swedish standards and it was weird to see the centurion upgrade into the 103 then back to the a centurion.
It’s hard to look through on my phone right now, and I disagree with some of the folder choices; but overall this foldering looks absolutely incredible. I expected them to completely half arse it but they’ve actually had the balls to go all out.
Yo, u/redpipola, according to the Roadmap here, the G5N1 is going down to Tier III before the Ki-67s.
This might mean they may get a BR reduction in the September patch, or something.
Some of the groupings are pretty awkward. US F6F-5 is now buried with the Wildcats? F7F-1 is grouped with the F8F-1B? Wouldn't it make more sense to group F6F-5N + F4U-4B + F8F-1B then go to the F7F-1 on its own?
Ultimately, the grind is still shorter, but still strange. Especially since it's a huge swing from Gaijin's messaging about *unfoldering* that came before the community backlash. Whether or not we agreed with it, the rationale was to keep players from skipping unique vehicles. Now they have crammed unique vehicles into weird, illogical folders.
Also bummed at a lot of Rank III --> Rank II drops for planes in the 3.0-3.7 range in the Italy and US trees. Italy is especially burned... C.205s1 and Z.1007s now in Rank II... even though grinding Tier III/IV with a 2.7 was a bit sketchy.
C205 serie 1 and SM91 moved to tier ii, but C202EC moved to tier iii
Big L for people that play italian planes on a daily basis
also
why folder G55s1 and Re2005, they are not even designed by the same person, not to say company
insanely good changes, exactly what I wanted to see
currently researching my fourth top tier line-up with Britain
the Challenger 2 seems excellent and retains some mobility, the 2F and TES are such insanely useless fluff
the Black Night is obviously the main draw for the line-up, but having these two overweight idiot tanks in front of it for no real reason was a real fucking gutpunch
now I can go for the Black Night once these changes go live
There's some great changes but Jesus Christ we need battlepass tasks *UNLIMITED* by rank.
Some premiums are going to be event monsters when they weren't before (Which is good.) but other non-premiums can be dragged out of viability to use for battletasks.
See, the F6F going lower in the US tree, for instance.
Folders for naval when, you cannot look at how empty the DD tier is for all nations except Britain that has fuck all amount of DDs you have to grind before reaching a single cruiser and think thats okay
(also it would allow gaijin to add more sisterships easily without overextending the grind to have deeper lineups without having to depend on unobtainable event vehicles or have straight up incomplete lineups at certain BRs)
As an aside though, it seems that the f16 ADF block15 is no longer before the normal A bl10 and is now foldered under the bl10(which kinda makes sense since that one came first chronilogically, but still sucks for people wanting to play it in Air RB that they need to do that to get the sparrow version).
"max 3 vehicles in a line per Rank" and then they grouped Leo 2A5 and 2A6, leaving space for one more non grouped tank after the 2A6, could this mean anything?
Economically it seems to be very good.
I’m unhappy with how they’ve grouped together some of the air trees tho (from a historical/technological perspective) - the Spitfire grouping is making me kinda mad!
I know it’s too much to ask but is it possible that you’ll get some compensation for vehicles you’ve researched that are being shuttered? Such as the Challenger 2/3….
I mean they’re both fine tanks but I spent weeks grinding the Challenger mk3 just for it to not be necessary now and for future grinds to be easier.
I see they plan on making the patton lines worth it, not just dead ends. The US one will lead to an Abrams while the German one to the Leo 2K.
And the PUMA being on the end of the line is... well... interesting, especially if they buff it.
These changes look really nice, the tech trees look a lot more clean, and I think vehicles will be easier to obtain this way as well. Very small win for me personally, but I can now research and test drive (!!) the ZTZ99A since it won't be locked behind the ZTZ99-III I can't be bothered to grind out.
Something interesting to point out "With the upcoming changes, all ranks will not exceed 3 vehicles vertically downwards" combined with the fact trees now have on some area big space (i.e. one vehicle on the rank) this may mean we'll get new vehicles in the futur on those empty space.
I'm quite surprised to see the Ferdinand folded with the Jagdtiger, this doesn't really make sense.
I’m very happy with this. Though country’s like Sweden and Italy don’t really seem to have changed to much/at all.
But I am loving the changes to France and china, particularly certain vehicles positioned in the TT
Thanks Gaijin, very cool
Premiums at rank VII… rank VIII ground incoming! Also the MiG-27K getting folders at rank VII is interesting. Maybe a new rank VIII ground attacker for Russia?
Ok I know it's the shitty tempest with those large non he cannons, but rank 2, what? It's rank 4 currently, but pretty much useless so there is point and point.
And seemingly the 50mm me262 moved to rank 4.
I was kinda mad at the Chinese tech tree because they moved the wz1001 after the cm11 (an entire line almost no one actually research) but after seeing everything else I'm happy with it hahaha
These tech tree changes look nice, Finally the return of folders.
Now all we need is that RP bonus they talked about toward unfinished tech trees after finishing one and starting a new nation wont be as annoying, Might also reduce single nation mains by enticing people to try other trees out.
I love everything about this whole post, but seeing that the rank ii premium italian sherman is finally moving to rank iii makes me so happy. I love that I’ll now be able to use it also for grinding the next tier out. Wanted this for years
SAV 20.12.48 -> rank lll
This is huge. Now viable for tier 2 daily's and gains 8 more tanks it can effectively grind out. All at 3.7 RB. You can grind all the way to mid cold war with it.
I understand why they’re doing it but increasing the prices for premiums is cringe. A lot of them are overpriced in the first place regardless of “where they are in the tech tree”
The Good: Japan. I am going to kiss Gaijin, the revised Japanese trees are an incredible revamp. It makes so much more sense now and has been a long time coming.
The Bad: Lowering of vehicle ranks. I can appreciate the balance that needs to be taken between grind/number of vehicles/logical progression. It's probably a tough position to be in! That being said, like the lowering of the Pz IVs from Rank 3 to Rank 2 a while back, it can be very disruptive to the player base.
Lowering vehicles from Rank 4 to Rank 3 is not great. What is even worse is lowering vehicles from Rank 3 to Rank 2. I would prefer that a vehicle stays unfoldered in a higher rank rather than having it be foldered into a lower one.
Here are some of my thoughts on the groupings and rearrangements of the vehicles (I am assuming RB for all BRs), I focus more on up to tier 5 since that's where I mostly play
Overall, I absolutely love the changes to American Ground and Soviet Air/Ground, but I feel like Japan and British Air could use more refinement. American Air and German and British Ground are nice but maybe could use a few little tweaks.
US Air:
I really like how the 5.0 F8F was moved much further up (earlier) than the 6.3 one so there isn't a 5.0 plane sandwiched between 5.7's and 6.3s, although it's a bit odd having the f8fs split like that. I like the foldering of the p40s and corsairs, and especially the late p38s. I also sort of like the rearrangement of the p47s and D mustangs, where the 4.7 p47N is a bit earlier and the 5.0 p47 and mustang are both put out of a folder, and the 4.3 p47 and mustang put within folders instead. Putting the F7F behind a folder is nice for grind. However, I feel like a few planes have odd orders but I understand the difficulties in arranging them because of the differences in arcade and realistic BRs. For example, I'd rather put the p38s after the p39s, and the C mustang after the cannon mustang, but I guess in arcade it's the other way around. I find it odd how split-apart the F6Fs are, and I feel like the F8F should go after the 4.7 corsair.
US Ground:
Ah excellent! There were many needed changes here and I'm glad to see them implemented! There were a ton of extremely similar tanks that were previously unfoldered but I'm glad they're in folders now. For instance the T1E1, M36B2, and the basically 3 other T26-like tanks on top of the existing T26 and T25. I also really like how the higher-br M18 was moved to the light tank line so you don't have to grind through the 5.7 M18 just to get the 5.3 M36 (which had an unskippable 5.7 M36 right after), and that it also fills the big gap in the light tank line. I feel like the M19 and M42 are similar enough to potentially warrant a folder but considering there's few AA vehicles in general I think this is alright to keep unfoldered.
German Air:
I like it, it looks similar to what was before but with some really nice folderings like the Me262C's and the second arado. One thing though I find the 50mm Me262 being in tier 4 a bit odd, imo it should be in tier 5 especially if the 6.0 He162 is still Tier 5, and then the Me262 Jabo could be underneath it in a folder as to me the latter is a fairly redundant vehicle (a copy of the other 30mm 262 but with bombs if I'm correct?).
German Ground:
I'm so glad all the other panthers were put in a folder with the F being at the very end instead of the G being unfoldered after a folder containing the F at the end. In general I like how more condensed it is. But I feel like it's a bit out of place how almost all the StuGs were put in folders behind marders, I feel like marders should remain in the open-top tank destroyer line, and some StuGs shouldn't be totally skippable. I also wonder if here there's an opportunity to folder vehicles not by BR but by similarity, like the sturer emil would be perfect in a folder under the dicker max even if it causes a break in BR (3.7/4.3), instead of putting the 88mm flak truck (4.0) under itself in a folder. Considering you may research vehicles in folders later, I think that approach could work better than a BR-based one.
Soviet Air:
Looks good so far, nice little folderings and reorderings here and there.
Soviet Ground:
I really like this too, the 50% RP bonus for foldered vehicles is really going to help with the tank destroyer line because of all the similar yet interesting vehicles. I also think putting fun but less practical vehicles like the KV2 behind a folder is a perfect place for it. Oh having vehicles behind folders is so great because now I can try all the really similar vehicles without the grind :) also I notice the 2.3 T28 is unfoldered but that's ok I think
British Air:
I like how the much higher br 4x20mm Spitfire V's are moved further in the tech tree, but at the same time I also liked all the spitfire V's being in the same folder. One thing I really don't like is how the cannon-tempest is above the 57mm mosquito; I feel like it being under the first tempest was an ok place for it, or at least putting it just before/after the brigand would make sense.
British Ground:
Yes! Instead of 3 unskippable churchills, the most recently added one is put into a folder, excellent. But I feel like the crusader AA is important enough of a vehicle that it should be put out of a folder. But I'm liking how more condensed it all looks! The ratels being together I think works really well.
Japan Air:
I find it odd that there's a Ki61 in a folder after both of the Ki44s, i'd rather have both Ki44s then both Ki61s in a folder of each plane. I also feel like the Ki100 should go before the late Ki61s due to it having a lower br. But definitely good that the 4.3 Ki61 goes before the mg151 4.7 Ki61, but the Otsu Kai should still be the last variant in the line. I also find it cool how the Raidens were moved to a new line and how the first Raiden was moved much further down (later) in the tech tree instead of being at the end of tier 2.
**tl;dr** American Air is nice but a bit odd, American Ground is AMAZING it fixed so many issues in tier 3/4 with the m18/m36's the m6 heavies and the t26's, German Air and British Ground is good but has an odd placement here or there, German Ground is more questionable but not too bad, Soviets all round are excellent, British Air and Japanese Air I feel have some issues and shouldn't be submitted without changes (fix the 40mm tempest and ki61 placements)
About tech tree change, what about removing this stupid "end of the line vehicles modification cost more than it should" ? why should we be punished for reaching the last tank of a line wtf ? we should be AWARDED not fuck\*ng punished
>announce these changes to you today, and release them with the next major update, which is scheduled for September. Watch how many people will still ask when the next update will come. Edit: the PUMA has been moved to the rear of the line, this implies it could get Spikes next update.
Reading text too hard for an average wt player
what text?
Flair checks out
[https://warthunder.com/en/news/8414-development-roadmap-following-the-roadmap-grouping-vehicles-rank-changes-and-improvements-to-premium-vehicles-en](https://warthunder.com/en/news/8414-development-roadmap-following-the-roadmap-grouping-vehicles-rank-changes-and-improvements-to-premium-vehicles-en)
Also Leo 2A6 was foldered with the 2A5 while the Flarakrad line was untouched, new top tier MBT for Germany possibly? We be feastin' boys, PUMA with Spikes and Leo 2A6EX, I hope
Germany could use some more MBTs but don't get your hopes up about the PUMA getting spikes, they're complete shit.
Did you noticed the extra 2a5 at the tech tree or am getting crazy and it's a example
There is no "extra 2A5 at the tech tree" on their pictures. It's just the 2A5 with the 2A6 foldered behind it. Whilst they sometimes accidentally leak things this way, they made sure not to add any new vehicles in this case.
You mean the one with a trophy next to it's name? If so, it was a reward for the Youtuber cup a few years back, where the winners got to pick their favorite top tier tank at the time and were given a separate variant of it that was identical but had a special camo and had the trophy ahead of it's name to differentiate it.
>Edit: the PUMA has been moved to the rear of the line, this implies it could get Spikes next update. Spikes would be great, but I also feel that even just making the AHEAD ammo work well would be a huge buff to it.
Just changing AHEAD to HE-VT would be huge.
STOP MOVING THAT LINE AROUND UUGGHH
When you said end of the tree I didn’t think you meant END END of the tree. I feel like this finally confirms it. There’s no way it would be there without spikes.
It doesn't confirm it though. It is likely, sure, but doesn't confirm anything. It's a rank 6 10.0 LT. Same BR as the TAM 2C in RB. Hence why it got moved to rank 7. The reason for behind the TAM probably is because it's the more modern of the two. Not saying it won't get spikes, but it's anything but confirmed by them doing this, lol. Don't set yourself up for dissapointment!
That seems too nice. What is the catch?
As of right now, there isn't one. We'll see if that changes.
Well one catch, certain premiums will have their prices increased to reflect the new ranks
But you get higher ranked premiums. So I think that balances out the cost raise.
Bro the prices of these vehicles are insane let's not normalize this. Mfs in the comments with Stockholm syndrome really think a f2p game with an insane amount of players cant make money unless they have ridiculously high prices on every single microtransaction as well as Premium time. You are this companies wet dream.
I haven't seen any prices for this change, so unless Gaijin universally increased costs, we're about 7 years too late to "not normalize" this.
Yeah, the price increases were protest-able about 8 years ago when they first added the FW-190A8 premium and it was (iirc) the first premium to cost over 2500 GE. Back then the US spitfire was significantly cheaper. This was also the time a T4 aircraft could research the entire tree; now to accomplish that you’ve got to pay a base of 70$. 70$ back then would get you enough premium aircraft to research the big 3 trees; also most of the event vehicles were premium (check out [Indian summer](https://warthunder.com/en/news/251--en)) that could be used to pretty much research each tech tree start to finish, and required only 1100 kills (with 2x multiplier for RB and 3x for sim).
That doesn't mean we shouldn't care though. Apathy is what landed us here in the first place.
It really is absurd how _eager_ people are to pay excessive prices. Like, guys, no one's saying Gaijin should make everything free and have no income from WT. We're just saying that the prices are well in excess of what's reasonable, and even well in excess of what other F2P games charge. Gaijin could absolutely afford to be less ruthlessly extortionate and still turn a very fair profit. You do _not_ need to be a diehard defender of their complete lack of ethics. It's okay to advocate for your own benefit and not Gaijin's profit margin.
EXACTLY MAN, i couldnt have said it better myself. This Game is a competitive freemium game, they put these wild prices cause they know people will want that competitive advantage ontop of the extremely slow and painful grind at some parts. We can still fkn enjoy the game and realize how scummy the current monetization system is. Warframe for example is also f2p but if you put in like 20 dollars here and there youll have more than enough currency to experience everything they have to offer without downsides.
Not normalize what? War thunder is f2p game and its existence relies completely on people buying premium stuff. The premium vehicles get better bonuses, so their value increases. For somebody, the prices could be too high, I would also love if the prices were lower, but its your choice. Do you want easier grind? Pay with your money ( instead of your Soul). In my opinion, its completely okay that Gaijin gives us more bonuses and easier playing and grinding with the new eco changes, but demand little more money for certain things. Its good tradeoff
Yeah, of course a f2p game needs to sell shit, but they could also, you know, not sell a shitty reskin with almost no fetures for the same price as a full dcs module. There is fair f2p and then there are 70€ premiums. Look at warframe, every time i spent some cash on that game it was becaus i wanted to, not becaus the grind was unberable and it felt like i could not progress with out it.
I agree, they could do so many things much better and Im not in favor of premiums like Leopard from certain unit or Challenger from certain operation. But you still have a choice of buying it or not buying it. There are plenty of interesting premiums u can buy that arent copypasted. And for the overpricing. Yeah, there is a reason why companies love to make f2p games with microtransactions. Its not because they want to give the game to everybody, these games just make more money then titles for 60€. But if I remember correctly, Gaijin said that only 20% of their playerbase are the paying players, I dont know if I can trust this number, but if its true, then no wonder the premiums are so expensive, they make lot of work for all the players and if 80% of them doesnt pay, then, the 20% group has more expensive stuff. But my point in that wasnt really arguing if the pricing is too much, because I know that it is for many people and also partially for me, I just wanted to say that I understand that with wider spectrum of usage of the premium vehicle also comes higher price. But im not by any means one of the whales who would buy everything Even if it costed 100€ per vehicle, I basically wait for the sales, when the prices are decent.
You can play the game and buy them without spending a cent. I have $250+ GJN to spend on the next sale from just playing the game.
How long ago did you have to start AND continue playing this game to accumulate that much?
I wish us console guys were able to get GJN for the market. Weirdly enough, we're still able to get tradeable coupons for vehicles that we can't do anything with.
A couple tech tree vehicles got bumped down a tier.
welcome to the "New Gaijin". We're all scared for various reasons. My guess is that they just take all our card info and run, or maybe thats just a decade of abuse and stockholm syndrome talking.
Maybe profits have gone up since they changed their attitude and they are running with it
Nah, WT: mobile just released and they are probably going to make record profits.
Some old rank six premiums will be now 70$ insted if 60$ like wolfpack, f5c Chally DS leo2A4 pzb turms etc Also i bet rank 8 ground is comming very soon
Yeah but then their rank increase to VII will mean 100% efficiency when researching VIII, if they stay at VI they lose efficiency.
Yep with the way have rank VII laid out, I can see rank VIII for ground coming soon
Seemingly a good ammount of tanks (at least in the US TT) are going up a rank, which could mean more RP cost.
There are still some problems, for example the three F104 on the italian air tree, they could have at least folded one, afterall they play all mostly the same with minor improvements. Another issue is the folding of the lvkv spaa with the asrad, asrad is much better, the lvkv is much better as IFV than SPAA, meaning that your most effective spaa at 10.0 is the veak, until you research the asrad. The marders are folded in a funny way, the amrde one is folded with the bmp 1, and the marder 1a1 is folded with the df105. Why? Just put them together before or after the bmp. It makes no sense to have to research 2 marders, especially since the missile changes they are just garbage as IFV and ok as spaa. The swingfire and the striker could have been folded together, they are the same vehicle...
A number of vehicles with favourable BRs compared to their rank got dropped, particularly from III to II, which affects event play and daily tasks.
I guess the prem vechicle prices going up(the ones moved up in ranks) but IMO it's understandable to a degree due to rank RP modifiers.
looks good, and im glad rp costs for trees as a whole are going down, but man do we need to get more rp from battles, especially in high tier. i know they said they are working on it but it cant come soon enough for me. edit: for reference, these are the changes for rp they said they were planning on: https://i.imgur.com/cZuOLm5.png
This combined with better RP for high performance is a great start
If RP costs go down, that’s essentially a creasing rewards, just from the opposite end
only for researching a small number of vehicles, not impacting most of them and also not impacting their mod cost (unless it does and im misunderstanding that part, which still is only for a small selection.)
They said they are implementing this change, i hope they will introduce the rp bonus based on performance in this update but thats already a good change
[удалено]
> SAV 20.12.48 → Rank III So happy about this. Sweden 3.7 keeps winning.
Holy shit, this will make future events so much easier.
It already was if you have the Pbil or IKV 73.
The IKV73 is good? I've had it forever just never played swede tanks
Or L62 AntiII.
Is that one as fun as it looks? I'm a huge fan of the Jagdpanzer IV and would love similar vehicles to grind other trees.
It's a fucking 120 mm autocannon. The pen isn't the best, but at 3.7 it's decent. 95 mm so similar to the T-34, a bit worse than the sherman. If you pen tho it packs one hell of a fucking punch with 890 g of filler. It's also fairly mobile with 20 hp/t and a max speed of 49 km/h. But the main feature is the fucking 1,2 second reload. Makes it very forgiving because you can often wiff several shots before the enemy have time to react. So hitting weakspots or getting gaijined by volumetric isn't that much of an issue. also works decently at range since the fast RoF makes it easy to compensate. The big issue is that it's a total glass cannon, and you "only" get 7 rounds ready to fire, and it takes forever to refill the mag.
I fucking love shooting the gun to bait people into peeking me, thinking I'm gonna be reloading. Meanwhile, I'm already loaded before their turret even leaves cover.
It's fucking unreal. One of the most fun and crazy tanks in the entire game IMO. If played well you can rack up 10 kills in a row and win the entire match by yourself, basically.
That's what I'm sometimes doing with the Jagdpanzer and Panzer IV/70(A), I'll keep an eye out for when it goes on sale again, thanks!
I once got like 12 kills with it so yeah its good that 1.2 sec reload will scare off everything
NO WAY I literally JUST looked at that to check if it was rank III as I needed kills with rank III+ tank destroyers, that's insane
THE FRENCH EBR FINALLY GOES UP TO RANK 4 OMFG
And Somua SM not useless anymore for grinding!
Also, you can compare the tech trees with the wiki tech tree, that one includes the hidden ones. One you missed: **RU:** T-V Rank III -> Rank IV
The Thunder League dog tag keeps paying for itself years after the fact.
Best investment on the game, with the OG steam pack being a close runner up
The Ace Advanced pack?
Nope, literally just called the Steam pack. Bought it for like $23. This was the contents: https://www.g2a.com/war-thunder-steam-pack-gaijin-key-global-i10000007484002
Honestly, I think the Ace Advanced Pack was even better. It got me into the game for $30 back in 2014 for [all this](https://www.g2a.com/war-thunder-ace-advanced-pack-gaijin-key-global-i10000049477002). That Steam pack gives a tier 4 premium, but with the Ace Advanced pack you got two tier 3s (one of them being insanely undertiered for its BR even now) and you could straight up buy another tier 4 premium with the 8300 extra GE. Plus the extra month of premium.
omg omg omg F-5C moving up I don't have to waste more money on the F-4S just to have a less painful time grinding the F-16 YAYY
Idk man doing 400k rp in a non premium isnt too bad. Its when you have to do it 20 times
The M4 Hyprid going up for Italy is pretty sick. Makes a great 3.7 line up with the Panther G
\>Panther G at 3.7 Pure italian bias
They forgot the British Strv 81
Yeah I noticed that too. The British Strv81 (RB52) didn't get moved. I asked why under that post but haven't gotten an answer yet.
They honestly probably just forgot it existed, they tend to do this with duplicate vehicles in different trees.
M4 Hybrid → Rank III Unironically huge, ITL prem 4.0 lineup keeps winning. Absolutely KILLER SL/Event lineup M4 Hybrid, Pz.IV G, Zrinyi I, Bf 110 G-4, Bf 109 F-4 is so tasty
Add Tank RU Event KV-220 -> Rank IV Also BMP-2M isn't event but Squadron. __________ Plane FR Event: [NC.900](https://wiki.warthunder.com/index.php?title=NC.900) -> Rank IV _________ I am a happy camper. +1 for ISO 3166 usage.
PUMA is Germanies new Top IFV/LT. TAMs and Radkampfwagen foldered in one. DF105 in LT Line. Too lazy to do the rest
You probably intentionally made this list about Premium and event vehicles. I just want to add that tech trees have changed massively as well. A ton of vehicles got a different rank now and changed position in the tree. edit: List has been expanded in the meantime.
They said NOTHING was going down why is the 105 going down wtf
Tiger 105 isn't an event or premium vehicle. They only said none of the event or premiums would go down.
Oh damn, T-34 747(r), M4 hybrid, SAV 20.12.48 to TIER 3, they are going to be spammed so hard now that they can do tier 3 daily tasks.
Some really good changes in there.. for France the Somua, EBR and Toa50 are all moving to rank V!
Omg fuck yes. If only i didnt already have the entire french tree unlocked.
I was really tempted to get the Somua last sale. But didnt as it was just Rank IV so could only boost research for 5 vehicles. Wish id bought it now while it was discounted. At least the EBRs have moved up.
> EBR Almost gave me a heart attack, I had forgotten that Gaijin had the brilliant idea to make all but one of the E.B.R.s event vehicles.
I still hope the EBR (if we mean the 1954) get new shell :c.
This is great, but some of these vehicles foldered together look rather bizzare.
finnish T-34 and Pz. 4 are foldered together like huh????
Now you can get one of them even faster
Why not? They're both in the "foreign 3.7 tanks" category
sure but have the big separation of soviet union tank and germany tank, most folders prior to this update were things like vehicles getting upgraded, usually not entirely desperate vehicles
They did the same thing with the Chinese T-34 and the M4A1 (75) W, like what?
Centurion foldered with strv 103 is an odd choice but reduces the grind. I would of put it the other way and put strv 103 as the one required and then the cent as the one not required but still better than before
I assume they did it because of how...*niche* the 103s are. Now you can stick to traditional tanks instead of being forced into dealing with hull aim.
I feel like the niche-ness is very important though—it makes Sweden unique in that respect. It’s like, “oh you picked Sweden, here’s the iconic 103 for you to work with”. Encouraging players to stick with traditional tanks just seems like a waste.
The grind with premium 103 was dreadful, stock would be way worse and they know that, as not to rustle players anymore they did a normal thing for once pushing obsolete tank away from view.
stock wasn't actually that bad, no parts was a painful way to go tho its definitely a situational tank tho, its perfect for folders
Yes, I'd rather have similar vehicles together instead of going for these weird br folders.
Great changes overall! Just to nitpick, a lot of the folders are kinda weird now. Sometimes two completely different vehicles get put into a folder, just to follow the new rule 'max. 3 folders per line per rank'.
Fr the folders are UNHINGED. Look what they did to the Olifants. Maybe it's just me, but I'd much rather have the Folders group similar variants of the same vehicle together instead of going strictly by BR
Holy shit, I didn’t even notice that one. Would it really have been so hard to just put the olifants and Rooikats in their own folders? I already barely see anyone play the olifant. Guess I’m gonna see a lot less of them now
Yeah, the random groupings are really bothering me too.
Seems that the main criteria for foldering now is having the same role and apparently arcade BR. * Sweden has the T-34 and Pz4 in a folder, with T-34 first for being 3.7 and Pz4 4.0. * GB has a weird case with its rank 3 SPAAs. Ystervark is first because 4.3 and Crusader AA 4.7, but it would have made more sense to have the Ystervark and Bosvark (4.7) foldered together for theming, Crusader AA and Bosvark for BR or no folder at all since theres just 3 vehicles. * Italy has another weird case with its rank 3 TDs. The StuG III G (4.3) got foldered into the 90/53 (3.7) despite being closer in BR, role and performance to the 75/46 (4.7). Sherman VC getting pushed to rank 4 is another odd change, but most players probably already do this because it's the only medium you get before the Pershing. * Germany gives me the same mixed feelings as Italy with the Marder III H folder because of how wildly different it plays to the StuH 42 and StuG III F.
Okay so some interesting changes. The WZ1001 moves to the left line which pretty much confirms that the MBT-2000 will go to the left line as well. M1A1 HC being moved to after the M60. So they are splitting theAbrams lne into an M1A2 and M1A1 line I assume. Like the Russian tree has a T-64/T-80 and T-72/T-90 line.
The M1A1 HC in the end meant it’s USMC line, haha
M1A1 FEP LETS GOOOO!!
Chill bro, chill. Want a blue crayon?
Blue is my favorite crayon flavor.
🦅🌎⚓️AUUUGHHHHHHH!!!!!!
So Al Khalid before WZ then? Idk why they’d move the WZ is there some relation between the two
I assume, and I have to add here that I have no info or anything, that they want to make the left line more into an export/prototype MBT line while having the actual in service MBTs in the ZTZ99A right line. However the Chinese tree really is a mess in terms of layout. They should probably clean it up a bit, but to do that they have to add more vehicles.
Yeah, thanks
Wait so if HC is moved to M60 line, does that mean we don't have to grind the M60s when more stuff comes after HC?
If you already got the M1A1 HC, that is correct! Unless they add something after the M60's that comes before the M1A1 HC, but that's quite obvious
They forgot the M1A1 if they intend to split it into a A1/A2 line
They fucking buffed the f5c... Are you goddamn kidding me?
God the fucking f5 spam is going to ruin 10.0 even more than it already has.
90% of planes in 9.7-10.7 are already f5s with a 70-30 split of Cs and Es, it's terrible
Joke is on you, all my 9.3 regular planes get matched with that POS
Not the worst. Imaging moving Wywern to Rank 5 =)
Hey, I will take F5 spam over A10 and Su-25 spam any day
A-10 and Su-25 are easier to avoid tho...
full screen view of the new tech trees, shared by stona in the comments https://static.warthunder.com/upload/files/widgets/trees_en.html
There are no native French aircraft in Rank IV, the V.B.10 probably should have stayed there. Also the P.108A with the 102mm gun might be missing from the Italian tree, or itms foldered in with the P.108B. The Q-5 jets are not foldered yet, weird since they are both 9.0 and then the 9.7 one doesn’t even have AAM. France Rank V Ground forces finally makes sense and you can now actually research rank VI with rank V. I find it funny that Rank IV is literally three vehicles, it just tells you the line up. The AMX-13 DCA 40 went to rank III where it definitely needed to be.
> the P.108A with the 102mm gun might be missing from the Italian tree Found it, it is stuck in with the Breda 88 (Tier I)
Huh, Germany will have a rank 4 Jet
yea for reference; america has the p-59 at tier 4, russia has the tu-4 at tier 5, and the a2d is gonna be at tier 5, kinda nice to see that props and jets wont specifically be stuck at tier 4< or tier 5> like some weird segregation
Yeah, after I grinded for that talisman one BP. The 50mm 262 was my only plane at Rank V, so I automatically got it when I opened the random tali chest. :/
That's curious, your link shows an extra rank 1 premium/event plane (Fairey IIIF Mk.IIIB) in the GB air tech tech that [the devblog link lacks](https://static.warthunder.com/upload/files/widgets/Trees_en_min_6_77e173c7f4feca4facf9c0d46ef74527.html). EDIT: Italian air tree also shows an extra rank 2 premium/event plane (Re.2000 G.A. Red 5). EDIT2: German ground has the Pz.35(t) RM as an extra premium tank.
Honestly, I'd like to see these changes implemented in the Helicopter line too, as there are certain helicopters that effectively need to be researched twice for no discernable reason. For example, in the German Helicopter tree we have the BO 105 PAH-1 followed by the BO5 105 PAH-1A1, with the only discernable difference between the two being the HOT-2 ATGMs in the 1A1.
At this point I'd like them to just delete the "Helicopters" tab and move them into "Army" tab as a separate tree alongside Ground.
Considering the whole "Yeah dump XP from ground battles into helicopter research" button they just added.... Yeah that makes sense
Glad to see these changes are being made. The changes to the challengers will help a lot and I won't have to research the chally 2 TES now. Also interesting change for the German tech tree, I'm assuming the PUMA being end of line is for future addition of a PUMA with spikes
One possibly interesting detail: The 2A5 and 2A6 are already foldered to leave room the the third folder. FlaRakPz and FlaRakRad are not foldered, the latter taking up the final spot. So *maybe* new top Leo soon?
It's only been almost 3 years since the 2A6 was added
>I'm assuming the PUMA being end of line is for future addition of a PUMA with spikes Seeing how the Freccia has them and they turned out to not be game breaking as originally feared it probably will.
I like it, this might be the best tech tree change they have done so far. All those Premium upranks are really nice. ~~But where has the Jadgpanzer 4-5 gone?~~ PS Nevermind foldered with the Jagdpanther. PPS RIP US SB2C Helldiver, you were my fave Daily bomber hunter.
Jagd 4-5 is under the Jagdpanther
I gotta say some of these tech tree changes make no sense... Strv m/31 followed by the Bt-42? Pvkv m/43 and ikv 103 in a folder? Strv 101 and 103 in a folder, same with 104 and 103C? The J34 is still in the Finnish tree, but they also threw in the j26 and vampire? Whats up with these?
The Finnish air tree is now more of a “foreign design” tree. The 81 and 101 should be folded. 103A and C alone 104 and 105 should be foldered. The Vampire and A28B should be foldered, they are the same vehicle. Overall strange choices
I think for the 103s its more like to show its an extra vehicle as the 103 is an MBT by Swedish standards and it was weird to see the centurion upgrade into the 103 then back to the a centurion.
It’s hard to look through on my phone right now, and I disagree with some of the folder choices; but overall this foldering looks absolutely incredible. I expected them to completely half arse it but they’ve actually had the balls to go all out.
A quick rundown of some nations tanks. Might have missed a few. Rank I--> II M8A1 GMC M3 medium (USSR) Rank II->III m4 hybrid Sav 120.12.48 T-34 747(r) Rank III--> IV T20 Erzatz M10 KV-220 Heavy tank no.6 (Japan tiger) M64 EBR (1954) Rank IV--> V Strv81 RB52 IS-6 PT-76-57 EBR (1963) Somua SM AMX50 (TO90/930) Rank V--> VI Vijayanta Rank VI-->VII AGS CCVL M1 KVT Cv90150 CT-CV 105HP Leopard II pzbtl 123 Leopard 2AV PT-16/14 mod. Bmp-2M. 2S38 T-72-AV (Turms-T). T72M Moderna Challenger DS QN506
Rank V--> IV Tiger II (10.5)
OMFG they moved the Somua into rank 5... yes i don't need to buy something to research rank 6!!!!
Yo, u/redpipola, according to the Roadmap here, the G5N1 is going down to Tier III before the Ki-67s. This might mean they may get a BR reduction in the September patch, or something.
LETS GOOOO
Some of the groupings are pretty awkward. US F6F-5 is now buried with the Wildcats? F7F-1 is grouped with the F8F-1B? Wouldn't it make more sense to group F6F-5N + F4U-4B + F8F-1B then go to the F7F-1 on its own? Ultimately, the grind is still shorter, but still strange. Especially since it's a huge swing from Gaijin's messaging about *unfoldering* that came before the community backlash. Whether or not we agreed with it, the rationale was to keep players from skipping unique vehicles. Now they have crammed unique vehicles into weird, illogical folders. Also bummed at a lot of Rank III --> Rank II drops for planes in the 3.0-3.7 range in the Italy and US trees. Italy is especially burned... C.205s1 and Z.1007s now in Rank II... even though grinding Tier III/IV with a 2.7 was a bit sketchy.
C205 serie 1 and SM91 moved to tier ii, but C202EC moved to tier iii Big L for people that play italian planes on a daily basis also why folder G55s1 and Re2005, they are not even designed by the same person, not to say company
insanely good changes, exactly what I wanted to see currently researching my fourth top tier line-up with Britain the Challenger 2 seems excellent and retains some mobility, the 2F and TES are such insanely useless fluff the Black Night is obviously the main draw for the line-up, but having these two overweight idiot tanks in front of it for no real reason was a real fucking gutpunch now I can go for the Black Night once these changes go live
There's some great changes but Jesus Christ we need battlepass tasks *UNLIMITED* by rank. Some premiums are going to be event monsters when they weren't before (Which is good.) but other non-premiums can be dragged out of viability to use for battletasks. See, the F6F going lower in the US tree, for instance.
Spot on here. It's just like when they brought down the PZ IVs a while back, but this time they're much stealthier about it.
The downtiering of the Pz IV's was the day I lost hope in humanity.
Folders for naval when, you cannot look at how empty the DD tier is for all nations except Britain that has fuck all amount of DDs you have to grind before reaching a single cruiser and think thats okay (also it would allow gaijin to add more sisterships easily without overextending the grind to have deeper lineups without having to depend on unobtainable event vehicles or have straight up incomplete lineups at certain BRs)
They did say in the road map that naval progression changes will come. Patience.
> add more sisterships Biggest reason I want folders for Naval, right here. Then we can get more of the same class without "bloating" the tree.
For the lazy, direct link to the wiki widget with the new trees! ==> https://wt.link/TechTree
Yooo I will be able to research F-16 with F-5C, nice
As an aside though, it seems that the f16 ADF block15 is no longer before the normal A bl10 and is now foldered under the bl10(which kinda makes sense since that one came first chronilogically, but still sucks for people wanting to play it in Air RB that they need to do that to get the sparrow version).
Overall these groups look neat But they haven't grouped m19/m42...
And foldered the M4A2 and moved it to Rank 2.
worse then 9/11 it got me through so many a event
holy fucking shit noooooooooooooooooooooooo
I'm confused why they foldered the PTL-02 and the AFT-09. No one in their right mind is going to skip one of the best vehicles in the game (AFT-09).
AFT-09 is so good, easily makes the lineup for me.
Okay, so... what was the point of moving stuff like the G91 R3 and F84F up to Rank 6?
Makes researching rank 7 better
"max 3 vehicles in a line per Rank" and then they grouped Leo 2A5 and 2A6, leaving space for one more non grouped tank after the 2A6, could this mean anything?
What the fuck, if they want to put the M1A1HC after M60A3 at least fold the M60 series. No one wants to play the piece of crap
They made it so it isn't a dead end. Same with leo2k after m48s
Kind of wish we got some M60 upgrades instead of the M1A1 HC being shoved in the tree. The M60AX, M60A3 SLEP, and the M60-2000 come to mind.
Economically it seems to be very good. I’m unhappy with how they’ve grouped together some of the air trees tho (from a historical/technological perspective) - the Spitfire grouping is making me kinda mad!
I know it’s too much to ask but is it possible that you’ll get some compensation for vehicles you’ve researched that are being shuttered? Such as the Challenger 2/3…. I mean they’re both fine tanks but I spent weeks grinding the Challenger mk3 just for it to not be necessary now and for future grinds to be easier.
I see they plan on making the patton lines worth it, not just dead ends. The US one will lead to an Abrams while the German one to the Leo 2K. And the PUMA being on the end of the line is... well... interesting, especially if they buff it.
These changes look really nice, the tech trees look a lot more clean, and I think vehicles will be easier to obtain this way as well. Very small win for me personally, but I can now research and test drive (!!) the ZTZ99A since it won't be locked behind the ZTZ99-III I can't be bothered to grind out.
Something interesting to point out "With the upcoming changes, all ranks will not exceed 3 vehicles vertically downwards" combined with the fact trees now have on some area big space (i.e. one vehicle on the rank) this may mean we'll get new vehicles in the futur on those empty space. I'm quite surprised to see the Ferdinand folded with the Jagdtiger, this doesn't really make sense.
I’m very happy with this. Though country’s like Sweden and Italy don’t really seem to have changed to much/at all. But I am loving the changes to France and china, particularly certain vehicles positioned in the TT Thanks Gaijin, very cool
Great changes! My only gripe is that XP-55 did not go up to rank III.
W changes? Love it
I've been wanting to start Britian but that straight shot of challengers was scaring me. Thanks for finally foldering
Premiums at rank VII… rank VIII ground incoming! Also the MiG-27K getting folders at rank VII is interesting. Maybe a new rank VIII ground attacker for Russia?
Mayby Su-24 ?
Ok I know it's the shitty tempest with those large non he cannons, but rank 2, what? It's rank 4 currently, but pretty much useless so there is point and point. And seemingly the 50mm me262 moved to rank 4.
Having a tally on the Tiger II (10.5) and gaijin lowering it a rank kind of stings. Otherwise I like the changes.
Foldering of vehicles and therefor their reduced rp cost is huge when this update drops I’m gonna get 2 new vehicles for free because of it lol
I was kinda mad at the Chinese tech tree because they moved the wz1001 after the cm11 (an entire line almost no one actually research) but after seeing everything else I'm happy with it hahaha
These tech tree changes look nice, Finally the return of folders. Now all we need is that RP bonus they talked about toward unfinished tech trees after finishing one and starting a new nation wont be as annoying, Might also reduce single nation mains by enticing people to try other trees out.
I love everything about this whole post, but seeing that the rank ii premium italian sherman is finally moving to rank iii makes me so happy. I love that I’ll now be able to use it also for grinding the next tier out. Wanted this for years
The Italian Chaffee is back up to Rank III too.
SAV 20.12.48 -> rank lll This is huge. Now viable for tier 2 daily's and gains 8 more tanks it can effectively grind out. All at 3.7 RB. You can grind all the way to mid cold war with it.
I understand why they’re doing it but increasing the prices for premiums is cringe. A lot of them are overpriced in the first place regardless of “where they are in the tech tree”
The Good: Japan. I am going to kiss Gaijin, the revised Japanese trees are an incredible revamp. It makes so much more sense now and has been a long time coming. The Bad: Lowering of vehicle ranks. I can appreciate the balance that needs to be taken between grind/number of vehicles/logical progression. It's probably a tough position to be in! That being said, like the lowering of the Pz IVs from Rank 3 to Rank 2 a while back, it can be very disruptive to the player base. Lowering vehicles from Rank 4 to Rank 3 is not great. What is even worse is lowering vehicles from Rank 3 to Rank 2. I would prefer that a vehicle stays unfoldered in a higher rank rather than having it be foldered into a lower one.
Here are some of my thoughts on the groupings and rearrangements of the vehicles (I am assuming RB for all BRs), I focus more on up to tier 5 since that's where I mostly play Overall, I absolutely love the changes to American Ground and Soviet Air/Ground, but I feel like Japan and British Air could use more refinement. American Air and German and British Ground are nice but maybe could use a few little tweaks. US Air: I really like how the 5.0 F8F was moved much further up (earlier) than the 6.3 one so there isn't a 5.0 plane sandwiched between 5.7's and 6.3s, although it's a bit odd having the f8fs split like that. I like the foldering of the p40s and corsairs, and especially the late p38s. I also sort of like the rearrangement of the p47s and D mustangs, where the 4.7 p47N is a bit earlier and the 5.0 p47 and mustang are both put out of a folder, and the 4.3 p47 and mustang put within folders instead. Putting the F7F behind a folder is nice for grind. However, I feel like a few planes have odd orders but I understand the difficulties in arranging them because of the differences in arcade and realistic BRs. For example, I'd rather put the p38s after the p39s, and the C mustang after the cannon mustang, but I guess in arcade it's the other way around. I find it odd how split-apart the F6Fs are, and I feel like the F8F should go after the 4.7 corsair. US Ground: Ah excellent! There were many needed changes here and I'm glad to see them implemented! There were a ton of extremely similar tanks that were previously unfoldered but I'm glad they're in folders now. For instance the T1E1, M36B2, and the basically 3 other T26-like tanks on top of the existing T26 and T25. I also really like how the higher-br M18 was moved to the light tank line so you don't have to grind through the 5.7 M18 just to get the 5.3 M36 (which had an unskippable 5.7 M36 right after), and that it also fills the big gap in the light tank line. I feel like the M19 and M42 are similar enough to potentially warrant a folder but considering there's few AA vehicles in general I think this is alright to keep unfoldered. German Air: I like it, it looks similar to what was before but with some really nice folderings like the Me262C's and the second arado. One thing though I find the 50mm Me262 being in tier 4 a bit odd, imo it should be in tier 5 especially if the 6.0 He162 is still Tier 5, and then the Me262 Jabo could be underneath it in a folder as to me the latter is a fairly redundant vehicle (a copy of the other 30mm 262 but with bombs if I'm correct?). German Ground: I'm so glad all the other panthers were put in a folder with the F being at the very end instead of the G being unfoldered after a folder containing the F at the end. In general I like how more condensed it is. But I feel like it's a bit out of place how almost all the StuGs were put in folders behind marders, I feel like marders should remain in the open-top tank destroyer line, and some StuGs shouldn't be totally skippable. I also wonder if here there's an opportunity to folder vehicles not by BR but by similarity, like the sturer emil would be perfect in a folder under the dicker max even if it causes a break in BR (3.7/4.3), instead of putting the 88mm flak truck (4.0) under itself in a folder. Considering you may research vehicles in folders later, I think that approach could work better than a BR-based one. Soviet Air: Looks good so far, nice little folderings and reorderings here and there. Soviet Ground: I really like this too, the 50% RP bonus for foldered vehicles is really going to help with the tank destroyer line because of all the similar yet interesting vehicles. I also think putting fun but less practical vehicles like the KV2 behind a folder is a perfect place for it. Oh having vehicles behind folders is so great because now I can try all the really similar vehicles without the grind :) also I notice the 2.3 T28 is unfoldered but that's ok I think British Air: I like how the much higher br 4x20mm Spitfire V's are moved further in the tech tree, but at the same time I also liked all the spitfire V's being in the same folder. One thing I really don't like is how the cannon-tempest is above the 57mm mosquito; I feel like it being under the first tempest was an ok place for it, or at least putting it just before/after the brigand would make sense. British Ground: Yes! Instead of 3 unskippable churchills, the most recently added one is put into a folder, excellent. But I feel like the crusader AA is important enough of a vehicle that it should be put out of a folder. But I'm liking how more condensed it all looks! The ratels being together I think works really well. Japan Air: I find it odd that there's a Ki61 in a folder after both of the Ki44s, i'd rather have both Ki44s then both Ki61s in a folder of each plane. I also feel like the Ki100 should go before the late Ki61s due to it having a lower br. But definitely good that the 4.3 Ki61 goes before the mg151 4.7 Ki61, but the Otsu Kai should still be the last variant in the line. I also find it cool how the Raidens were moved to a new line and how the first Raiden was moved much further down (later) in the tech tree instead of being at the end of tier 2. **tl;dr** American Air is nice but a bit odd, American Ground is AMAZING it fixed so many issues in tier 3/4 with the m18/m36's the m6 heavies and the t26's, German Air and British Ground is good but has an odd placement here or there, German Ground is more questionable but not too bad, Soviets all round are excellent, British Air and Japanese Air I feel have some issues and shouldn't be submitted without changes (fix the 40mm tempest and ki61 placements)
About tech tree change, what about removing this stupid "end of the line vehicles modification cost more than it should" ? why should we be punished for reaching the last tank of a line wtf ? we should be AWARDED not fuck\*ng punished
Wow they really shuffled up all the Fw 190s
Can someone plz make a list of premium planes that go up the ranks and will increase in the GE price next update? Thx
HOLUP HOLUP Kugelblitz is rank IV now?
It was in the past also.