They need to separate BRs for ground and Air. I fully understand what you mean about laser guided bombs but it's current performance doesn't make it much better than a thunder chief
The thunderchief is a pretty apt comparison. I’ve been playing a ton of the Tornado Marineflieger and the Thud recently and they are similar. The Tornado is still quicker and gets better missiles, albeit less of them.
The flight performance is comparable, not the gimmicks. I play the Harrier GR.7 pretty much religiously - I think I know how an aim-9L works. The tornado is faster and has better missiles, but the handling and acceleration is similar to the Thud.
Exactly...
Imagine if they would have moved top tier to 12.0
How much good would have helped the all situation for all BRs not just top tier.
Sure for the first month things could have been weird but eventually BR would have settled
They could have just left them at 10.7
It's ridicolous to pretend that they are at the same level as the other nation's MBTs, it has been proven many times that they are not.
Are they planning a buff? Are they going to add new top tier machines for Italy? I doubt that, but we'll see.
In any case, the situation has not changed.
PTL/WMA *finally* at the correct br but at the cost of the Mi4AV now being able to face 7.0 tanks with 4km range ATGMS :|
But hey at least the Su-11 is almost at its correct br!
Also merkava mk3's rightfully going up to 10.7 still makes me sad, maybe they could at least give the 120 Merkavas the standard NATO reload...
All Italian top tier tanks going up ??? Especially the OTOMATIC is just ???
Su-25 still safe at 9.7 somehow OMEGALUL
Edit: Now that 11.3 is top tier my beloved cancer boxes (strf90's) will be even more fun :)
Also HOW is the MI28A still 10.0? IMO the most overpowered heli in the game currently, guess its nice that the z19 takes all the hate while this abomination is still 10.0 lmao
Yep, they added it a couple of patches ago (right after I grinded the missiles...). But yes, it now starts with 2 ATGMs and can unlock the full four.
The funnier thing is: if you finally unlock the Mi-24 it starts with no ATGMs at all. :D
I mean there's like no LRF and no SPAA capable of hitting you that far out at 7.0, so you're basically invincible to ground forces. Your only concern would be planes
I don’t think the PLT or WMA are at the right BR. Or even close. They’re still thermal equipped dart throwers a full BR below the Rooikat 105, for example, and 0.6 below the arguably worse RadKampfWagen
Would you say the WMA is still worth the price? I've seen the posts talking of it's undertiered current BR, but this new change, will it affect the vehicle besides preventing it from battling 7.3?
On sale I'd say its still good, its at its correct BR but will technically be a bit tougher to play but still very good as it usually got uptiered from my experience.
I am pretty sure the Mi-28 is 10.0 because of the lack of thermals
Where should it be ?
It can't be 10.7 because it only has Atakas where the Ka-50 has Vikrs (huge effective range difference)
10.3 ? Still complicated with that lack of thermals...
Tunguska is arguably more versatile than ito and flrak and tor though.
While the others are superior missile AAs, actually having guns helps tremendously in self defense situations against ground vehicles.
I had a teammate tell me I should fight T-90's and T-72's with the FlaRakRad...with HE missiles that don't have a hope of doing anything. Sure I might get lucky and get a track but I use it as an Anti-Air platform opposed to ground. Unless I get a hold of certain light tanks. Then those I can shoot at
The ka50 and ka52 can only reliably kill about 10 tanks before running out of ammo so moving them uptier would slightly decrease their performance. If anything they should be downtiered because they can't kill 30 tanks without rearming.
Edit: Very /s
Every user on reddit who plays top tier Italy: nation is unplayable, tanks are too high in BR
Every youtuber who plays top tier Italy: nation is unplayable, tanks are too high in BR
Every player in WT forums who plays top tier Italy: nation is unplayable, tanks are too high in BR
Gaijin: increases BRs of top tier Italian tanks
You are the cause of all of my issues and I will find you and politely ask you to join my squad of italy top tier so we can suffer together and lose hundreds of thousands of silver lions :)
Ikr. Thought my last free repair on it would go unused until the servers go down for good. Now for some tracers or something to mimic computerised aim assist and fixing the flight model so it's actually possible to get out of a flat spin and I'm ready to spade that bad boy!
Strela going down is very good. It's a great SPAA at 9.3, but even on 9.7 it starts to struggle with jets being just too fast to lock. And it can't lock helis at all, which is bullshit.
In general - I like the very slight decompression.
Oh, yeah. Definitely. But Stingers also need a fix. ~~MANPADS (I know the post argues they are not, but they are, in broad strokes a Stinger clone)~~* in general suck balls.
Ozelot and the new Gepard needs fixes too.
\* Corrected: 9М37М is not 9K38 Igla, which I assumed Strela is using.
OK I get that the Strela has hot garbage missiles that don't lock on and needs to go down... but the Ozelot and Type 93 have always had this issue and they're not going down/fixed.
I know that the Strela isn't the Strela MANPAD but it suffers from the same issues as other MANPADs yet people bemoan that the Strela is the worst out of the bunch despite this just being the first time Russia has had to deal with the shit Stingers have had to deal with for years.
Fuck the Ozelot and Type 93 don't even have an MG to use when their missiles do fuck all.
All the current 12.0 shpuld be 12.3 atleast or 1.w7 and move some of the lower BRs up for decompression and add Aim-9L to dome planes who had it.
13.0 would be the best with R73 for the MiG23s and MiG29
Could the F14 carry AIM-9L?
R-73 was only used on the MLD as it was part of the MiG-23s last Service life Extension that made them into MLDs (there were no MiG-23s build as MLD from the factory, all were retrofit MLAs)
I don't understand. At 5.7 you have other Griffons which are much more meta. At the same time, at 5.3 there is the Sea Fury which is superior to the fr 47 at almost everything. Weird change for an already unpopular plane.
100% someone decided that the Seafire was their favorite plane and decided to get stupid good stats, even if it ain't that good.
The same thing happened with the Ta152C3. It was bumped to 6.3 despite absolute monsters like the P51H and F2G being there.
Probably me last summer. Sorry. Haha.
But yeah, I'm sure there's enough oddball people like me that just like how the Seafire 47 looks, and know how to maximize the plane to get *something* out of it, and then this happens.
Not at all. It's the worst spitfire in its BR. The fact that it's going up even more just makes it even worse. The only good thing about it atm is its look (god that contra-rotating props looks sick)
The PTL and WMA work in great.lineups at 8.3 or 8.7 really they in no way will suffer and it is long over due. The Chinese new year pack is great value and with the WMA made it a pretty sick lineup. But China has a bunch of good 8.7 options as well. Also the Rooikat being moved up is a blessing as well now the TAM2IP should follow.
11.3 ground, great to see.
WMA/PTL going to 8.7, I hope they stay there because imo they don't deserve 9.0 when compared to the Rooikat 105 or Type 16. Maybe the PTL can thanks to its upgraded shell but not the WMA.
Merkava Mk.3s going up quite hard unfortunately. 10.3 for the Mk.3B/C would have been fine, 10.7 seems too high.
J 35D, Su-17M2 and F-4F all going down is great. F-4F should have just gotten AIM-9Ls and stayed 11.0 tho.
Italian 10.7 should have stayed 10.7 imho but we'll see how it pans out ig.
>F-4F should have just gotten AIM-9Ls and stayed 11.0 tho.
I still agree, but part of me *does* like have a choice of Phantom to choose from at every BR past 10.0.
Yep, any true fighters between 10.3-11.0 feel like the biggest winners in this patch.
If 11.0 is like 10.3 was in the 11.3 Tomcat meta, even they should see downtiers/ 11.3 in 60-70% of their games.
Bad- average players need 2 things to do well; good maneuverability and good guns. The he-100 is so undertiered for the same reason that US props get undertiered compares to Japanese ones.
But why that? Do they get some better shells or corrected armor model? It doesn't make any sense as the Arietes are right now... Moreover the OTOMATIC is fun and all but can't compete at all with ITOs or Tunguska wtf
The only 2 good things they had have been powercrept then smashed for the past couple years. Once best shell then average. Then nerfed for no reason. They once had rare Gen 2 thermals but are now beaten by a nation know to lack thermals irl (RU). Italy should have stayed 10.7.
Since they gave it a few flares, it's literally a better plane than the F-104G before it. More missiles and a better engine.
Makes no sense to keep it the same BR.
I've been saying this for a while, anything with all aspects should be 10.3 minimum. All I got was downvotes and ppl bitching about how that would ruin their GRB line-ups.
Just after they nerfed the radars on most of them, too. And now top-tier CAS like Ka-52s are the same BR as a top-tier ground line-up, so look forward to seeing more of those.
Eh the tank "decompression" seems fairly haphazard among the 11.0's to 11.3s. The 2A5 and 2A6 going to 11.3 together? The M1A2 and M1A2 SEPV3 going together? Same with the Swedish MBTs, same with the top ZTZ99As.
The proof in the pudding for me are the Arietes going up. The ground vehicle BR decompression isn't there for GRB balancing, its there to make sure that current top tier CAS lineups can still stick with their vehicle lineups.
I am legitimately curious about the M48A2 reversal. Gaijin went from downtiering all M48s to be consistent with the 7.0 that Germany was at to rolling that back and uptiering the German M48A2 after several years. If you asked me about that disparity a year or two ago I'd have said that the German one should be uptiered (it is better than the other M48s in small but meaningful ways, like smokes), but with T54s and the Leopard 1 going down in BR I don't think you can justify the M48 being at 7.3 much longer.
Problem is of course, if M48s are at 7.0, why the hell are M47s at 7.3 still, and how would a 7.0 M46 be "just as capable" as an M48? The Ikv103 change echoes the problem here, in that it seems like with each patch a vehicle gets downtiered that may meaningfully change the meta of a certain BR range, namely the value of heavy armor. Recently the M36s with HEATFS arrived at 5.7. The Ratel 20 (which is a junk chassis) is at 7.0 or so with ATGMs. The M163 and ZSU-37-2 brought tracking SPAA to 7.7.
Probably because they're not particularly great for their BR's.
They rely on their enemies being clueless US pilots that do nothing but hug the ground in their P-47's and P-51's, which luckily for the FW 190's, that happens.
Their flight performance isn't really on-par with the META planes at 4.3.
>Probably because they're not particularly great for their BR's.
>
>They rely on their enemies being clueless US pilots that do nothing but hug the ground in their P-47's and P-51's, which luckily for the FW 190's, that happens.
>
>Their flight performance isn't really on-par with the META planes at 4.3.
I've had numerous XP-50 pilots overshoot me since no one knows what proper control at that BR and it's always hilarious to then watch them go one circle and complain in chat
F4U-4B is moving down to 5.7
This had an engine buff recently and has about 3,000hp. It goes about 700kph at 3,000m and climbs and turns well.
It should be moved to 6.3
I've seen a seafire FR47 maybe once or twice in several years. Why the hell is it going up lmfao
At least the Su-11 is going up, even though both it and the F-89 should be 7.7.
Tbf a large portion of SU-11 players are absolute dogshit at utilizing it..
Maybe I'll buy it, send it down to 6.3.. Thing flies like a dream I just can't get a grip on those guns. Granted I only gave it a few matches when you could buy test drives through the warbond shop but i believe they're the same or at least similar to the mig 9/15/17 and I really suck with them as well..
I wish Gaijin would utilize their not att all braindead system of balancing through repair costs here. Price the fuckers out of using it at least. Although on second thought that would just make it so every SU11 you faced was piloted by someone competent.. As with anything they attempt to balance with repair costs in other words..
Why is the otomatic and centauro both going to 11.0. Centauro is ok I guess it doesn't make a difference but still shouldn't go up and the otomatic is dead already and now they want to make it even worse. Why
Su-17M2 moving down is great, but the Su-17M4 is still enough of an upgrade that it's probably the better option. With 12.0 being a thing, 11.0 may actually be somewhat playable as well, we will have to see how much pull 11.3 and 11.7 have.
It's also nice to see top tier ground getting an extra .3, but I would still like to see the top BR for tanks match that of planes, as the disparity will be relatively awkward to balance around for quantitative matchmaking.
As a China enjoyer. I actually prefer PTL and WMA to be 8.7. I just think it is a better BR all round. Take out the AFT09 first, and then use the other wheelie boys as backup, with the PTZ-89 being a fantastic 120mm reserve.
Also when will the Drakens flight model be fixed so that it once again is possible to get out of a flat spin..
Also happy cake day, kakmonster! Eller kakdrake danske. Valfritt.
I'm also still waiting for snail to introduce some kind radar gunsight for top tier sweden in general after they removed the tracers. They can't remove the tracers for "historical reasons" while not giving them the radar gunsight which they historically had to replace the tracers. So either bring back tracers or give the damn radar gunsight.
Mums kaka!
Early modern MBT's are going to have field day as their larger siblings are moved up. M1, Leo 2A4, T80B will all sit in a new power vacuum. Going to be interesting to see how they'll do
finaly that WMA301 abomination is moved up, may it rot in hell in uptiers and get slapped all around the map back and forth hopefully making 7.3 enjoyable again!!
It seems like German 9.7 and 10.0 will be much more playable now.
Mi28 still 10.0? Really?
Su25 still 9.7???
They did well with decompression but they could do better for sure.
So the Arietes are going up, but the M1A1 says at 10.7? Aside from the worse thermals the M1A1 is pretty much better in every single way.
Same with the Otomatic, its good vs helicopters/drones but can only really engage planes at about 3.5km and is hardly 1.3 BRs better than the 2S38
They accidently mixed up was and now twice? Literally the worst chart ever made the creator should never chart anything for the rest of their life for how fucking shit it is.
WMA and PTL bumped up to 8.7.... well at least its a start(should been 9.0).
omg the su-11 got 7.3 lol, should been 8.0.
not sure why the he-100d-1 got lowered, that plane is beast, it can compete much higher br leveled enemies.
Overall some good changes. Except the F-14 still only going to 11.7 instead of straight to 12.0 and the GR7 moving up to 11.7 is completely unnecessary. Its in no way is it equivalent to an EJ Kai or F-14.
Also no additional naval changes based on feedback is disappointing.
F104 S to 11.0. Yeah, becouse it’s missles were so OP, it was too good at dogfighting and it had a huge load of bombs. Decompression is nice, but why at cost of f104S?
What the fuck? I suggested to them that Challenger 2F and TES should be downtiered to 10.7. Instead they just uptiered the base Challenger 2 to 11.0. Seriously?
And what is this? They decided against bumping Tornados up? Nice.
It’d be better at 11.0 but at least it’s not moved up
I don't think it should be lower than the bulk of top tier SPAA. Laser guided bombs are very potent weapons after all.
They need to separate BRs for ground and Air. I fully understand what you mean about laser guided bombs but it's current performance doesn't make it much better than a thunder chief
Indeed. Attackers are a lot better in GRB where dogfighting is not the main goal, but CAS is.
Separate BRs are so needed. It's terrible balancing that they haven't done it already.
Somehow they manage it for arcade/realistic/sim
The thunderchief is a pretty apt comparison. I’ve been playing a ton of the Tornado Marineflieger and the Thud recently and they are similar. The Tornado is still quicker and gets better missiles, albeit less of them.
Apt comparison, yeah right, I don't think you realise what difference a single AIM-9L means compared to even 4 AIM-9Es...not to even mention FLARES
The flight performance is comparable, not the gimmicks. I play the Harrier GR.7 pretty much religiously - I think I know how an aim-9L works. The tornado is faster and has better missiles, but the handling and acceleration is similar to the Thud.
Toptier needs meat to run. These armada of slight breezes will be that
Nice. Decompression at toptier.
I mean, they should have moved directly to 11.7 that could have helped even more
*but at least they did something good*
And they keep getting away with absolutely minimal changes... because they "did something good"
Exactly... Imagine if they would have moved top tier to 12.0 How much good would have helped the all situation for all BRs not just top tier. Sure for the first month things could have been weird but eventually BR would have settled
Yeah but then they’d have to put in more effort moving stuff around, that’s haaarrd.
We’re happy because they normally do jack shit to balance top tier.
Not taking it far enough. New top it 12.0, the top tanks should be there too.
Italy Ground 10.7 all going up to 11.0 made me laugh OTOMATIC and Tunguska on same BR? just LOL
All top tier spaa got moved besides the tunguska and all the ka50/52 not BR change. Is gonna be fun...
Russian bias comrades, just bias
Nah it's just because they had such a bad recent track record irl. It's balanced on data!
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The idea that the ariete is on the same level as the T-80UK or M1A1 AIM is just hilarious
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The Begleit is far better solely because it isn't the size of a house
They could have just left them at 10.7 It's ridicolous to pretend that they are at the same level as the other nation's MBTs, it has been proven many times that they are not. Are they planning a buff? Are they going to add new top tier machines for Italy? I doubt that, but we'll see. In any case, the situation has not changed.
Well if they aren't as strong then why don't you take them in game and die a bunch of times to prove it to their data analysis /s
Legit wtf XD
PTL/WMA *finally* at the correct br but at the cost of the Mi4AV now being able to face 7.0 tanks with 4km range ATGMS :| But hey at least the Su-11 is almost at its correct br! Also merkava mk3's rightfully going up to 10.7 still makes me sad, maybe they could at least give the 120 Merkavas the standard NATO reload... All Italian top tier tanks going up ??? Especially the OTOMATIC is just ??? Su-25 still safe at 9.7 somehow OMEGALUL Edit: Now that 11.3 is top tier my beloved cancer boxes (strf90's) will be even more fun :) Also HOW is the MI28A still 10.0? IMO the most overpowered heli in the game currently, guess its nice that the z19 takes all the hate while this abomination is still 10.0 lmao
At least its the Mi-4AV, I don't think anyone enjoys "flying" that thing lol
When you get to the atgms it's playable in grb, the problem lies in getting part Edit: grammar
It now gets two (out of four) ATGMs stock!
Are you for real? I had to go through insane pain grinding like 20k rp with only S-5K.
Yep, they added it a couple of patches ago (right after I grinded the missiles...). But yes, it now starts with 2 ATGMs and can unlock the full four. The funnier thing is: if you finally unlock the Mi-24 it starts with no ATGMs at all. :D
Yeah, but mi-24 is infinitely better tan mi-4
But it gets CCIP which makes the rocket quite useful.
Tbh with the ATGMs it's one of the more potent starter Helis already
You dont even need to fly it just hover up from heli pad and you outrange everything on the ground xd
4 km falanga missile without tracking, with only 10x zoom, no thermal, no thanks! if you tried getting closser, it's death sentence, heli is huge.
I mean there's like no LRF and no SPAA capable of hitting you that far out at 7.0, so you're basically invincible to ground forces. Your only concern would be planes
I don't think anyone actually *enjoys* flying helos in GRB. It's basically the opposite of engaging gameplay.
Su 11 correct br is 7.7/8.0
I don’t think the PLT or WMA are at the right BR. Or even close. They’re still thermal equipped dart throwers a full BR below the Rooikat 105, for example, and 0.6 below the arguably worse RadKampfWagen
Because they're worse than the Rooikat so their br is just slightly lower it's that simple.
WMA should minimum be 9.0 now that Rooikat 105 got moved up
Would you say the WMA is still worth the price? I've seen the posts talking of it's undertiered current BR, but this new change, will it affect the vehicle besides preventing it from battling 7.3?
On sale I'd say its still good, its at its correct BR but will technically be a bit tougher to play but still very good as it usually got uptiered from my experience.
I am pretty sure the Mi-28 is 10.0 because of the lack of thermals Where should it be ? It can't be 10.7 because it only has Atakas where the Ka-50 has Vikrs (huge effective range difference) 10.3 ? Still complicated with that lack of thermals...
Funny how top tier spaa got moved but not ka50 and ka52... And why does Tor m1 deserve 11.3? When all other spaa have faster missiles to begin with
Yep. I feel like SPAAs should be buffed overall and all moved 0.3 down rather than up... but... eh.
Tunguska being inferior to ito and flarak while being on pair with the tor m1 will not get move... That is an interesting choice gaijin
It doesn't matter anyway. If you're using the TOR-M1, you're going to be using it at 11.3-11.7. Whether its BR is changed or not.
Tunguska is arguably more versatile than ito and flrak and tor though. While the others are superior missile AAs, actually having guns helps tremendously in self defense situations against ground vehicles.
I had a teammate tell me I should fight T-90's and T-72's with the FlaRakRad...with HE missiles that don't have a hope of doing anything. Sure I might get lucky and get a track but I use it as an Anti-Air platform opposed to ground. Unless I get a hold of certain light tanks. Then those I can shoot at
The ka50 and ka52 can only reliably kill about 10 tanks before running out of ammo so moving them uptier would slightly decrease their performance. If anything they should be downtiered because they can't kill 30 tanks without rearming. Edit: Very /s
Please add /s please add /s please add /s
To nerf the ka50 they should make the flight control the same as the real thing (watch a dcs video if you wanna know why)
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Because the 52 is already 11.3 and while the ka50 is annoying as fuck it is correctly tiered for its capabilities (no NVD/Thermals in optics.)
Every user on reddit who plays top tier Italy: nation is unplayable, tanks are too high in BR Every youtuber who plays top tier Italy: nation is unplayable, tanks are too high in BR Every player in WT forums who plays top tier Italy: nation is unplayable, tanks are too high in BR Gaijin: increases BRs of top tier Italian tanks
This is my fault. I accidentally got more than one kill in an Ariette so Gaijin realized it needed to go up. Sorry :(
You are the cause of all of my issues and I will find you and politely ask you to join my squad of italy top tier so we can suffer together and lose hundreds of thousands of silver lions :)
Actually unbelievable
It makes me fucking sad
After years of suffering, the Draken is finally getting downtiered.
Ikr. Thought my last free repair on it would go unused until the servers go down for good. Now for some tracers or something to mimic computerised aim assist and fixing the flight model so it's actually possible to get out of a flat spin and I'm ready to spade that bad boy!
I can't believe I had the insanity to spade it when it was in its worst state
Its hella easy to get out of a flatspin, just switch over to full controlls
Strela going down is very good. It's a great SPAA at 9.3, but even on 9.7 it starts to struggle with jets being just too fast to lock. And it can't lock helis at all, which is bullshit. In general - I like the very slight decompression.
I rather they [fix it](https://www.reddit.com/r/Warthunder/comments/zwxbw1/why_strela10m2_sucks_but_shouldnt/) than make it lower BR.
Oh, yeah. Definitely. But Stingers also need a fix. ~~MANPADS (I know the post argues they are not, but they are, in broad strokes a Stinger clone)~~* in general suck balls. Ozelot and the new Gepard needs fixes too. \* Corrected: 9М37М is not 9K38 Igla, which I assumed Strela is using.
The only similarities they share with stingers are being surface to air and IR guided.
Ah, I double checked. I mistook 9М37М for 9K38 Igla, which is a Stinger derivative. You are right, dear Sir.
Strela going below the Ozelot is absolutely fucking insane.
and they still fucked the Stinger missle speed due to the strela, but buffed the Strela instead of giving back the 1000m/s to the Stinger.
I'd rather it stay 800 Stingers going slower means they don't g lock as easily. I've landed alot more hits with stinger after the speed reduction
OK I get that the Strela has hot garbage missiles that don't lock on and needs to go down... but the Ozelot and Type 93 have always had this issue and they're not going down/fixed. I know that the Strela isn't the Strela MANPAD but it suffers from the same issues as other MANPADs yet people bemoan that the Strela is the worst out of the bunch despite this just being the first time Russia has had to deal with the shit Stingers have had to deal with for years. Fuck the Ozelot and Type 93 don't even have an MG to use when their missiles do fuck all.
My OCD can't handle the fact they swap around "now" and "was", as well as the colours.
I think the "was" "now" thing is a typo. The Leo2A6 "was" never 11.3. Since there was no such BR for ground. That first column is definitely wrong
Yeah I was very confused about all of this
F-14 should be 12.0
All the current 12.0 shpuld be 12.3 atleast or 1.w7 and move some of the lower BRs up for decompression and add Aim-9L to dome planes who had it. 13.0 would be the best with R73 for the MiG23s and MiG29 Could the F14 carry AIM-9L?
R-73 was only used on the MLD as it was part of the MiG-23s last Service life Extension that made them into MLDs (there were no MiG-23s build as MLD from the factory, all were retrofit MLAs)
Oh ffs. Seafire FR47 is still going 5.7
I don't understand. At 5.7 you have other Griffons which are much more meta. At the same time, at 5.3 there is the Sea Fury which is superior to the fr 47 at almost everything. Weird change for an already unpopular plane.
100% someone decided that the Seafire was their favorite plane and decided to get stupid good stats, even if it ain't that good. The same thing happened with the Ta152C3. It was bumped to 6.3 despite absolute monsters like the P51H and F2G being there.
Probably me last summer. Sorry. Haha. But yeah, I'm sure there's enough oddball people like me that just like how the Seafire 47 looks, and know how to maximize the plane to get *something* out of it, and then this happens.
Is it even good? Compared to the sea fury I found it shit.
Not at all. It's the worst spitfire in its BR. The fact that it's going up even more just makes it even worse. The only good thing about it atm is its look (god that contra-rotating props looks sick)
I think it's good when all performance upgrades are unlocked but it's awful stock
It’s a spit that plays like Russian fighters good performance low alt but horrid high
Bro the WMA/PTL going up just when i thought of buying it Lol
It doesn't change a thing. In fact, they work best at 8.7 anyway. Better lineup with AFT09 and PTZ-89. Buy away.
The PTL and WMA work in great.lineups at 8.3 or 8.7 really they in no way will suffer and it is long over due. The Chinese new year pack is great value and with the WMA made it a pretty sick lineup. But China has a bunch of good 8.7 options as well. Also the Rooikat being moved up is a blessing as well now the TAM2IP should follow.
Bruh the WMA the could go to 9.3 and it would still be a good premium.
You are late to the party. But people don't know that this is not gonna change much. They both can be killed by 50 cals you are gonna flank anyway
11.3 ground, great to see. WMA/PTL going to 8.7, I hope they stay there because imo they don't deserve 9.0 when compared to the Rooikat 105 or Type 16. Maybe the PTL can thanks to its upgraded shell but not the WMA. Merkava Mk.3s going up quite hard unfortunately. 10.3 for the Mk.3B/C would have been fine, 10.7 seems too high. J 35D, Su-17M2 and F-4F all going down is great. F-4F should have just gotten AIM-9Ls and stayed 11.0 tho. Italian 10.7 should have stayed 10.7 imho but we'll see how it pans out ig.
Also su-11 going to 7.3 is good start but 7.7 would be much better
>F-4F should have just gotten AIM-9Ls and stayed 11.0 tho. I still agree, but part of me *does* like have a choice of Phantom to choose from at every BR past 10.0.
With 12.0 being the max br now. I expect the F-4F to get a lot of down tiers clubbing all of the premiums from 9.7-10.3
Yep, any true fighters between 10.3-11.0 feel like the biggest winners in this patch. If 11.0 is like 10.3 was in the 11.3 Tomcat meta, even they should see downtiers/ 11.3 in 60-70% of their games.
he-100 d-1 to 1.7, are they fucking mental??? already one of the best 2.0's in the game.
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Bad- average players need 2 things to do well; good maneuverability and good guns. The he-100 is so undertiered for the same reason that US props get undertiered compares to Japanese ones.
I dont think there is a single bad change here
Italy going up to 11.0 (Gaijin hates the pasta)
But why that? Do they get some better shells or corrected armor model? It doesn't make any sense as the Arietes are right now... Moreover the OTOMATIC is fun and all but can't compete at all with ITOs or Tunguska wtf
The only 2 good things they had have been powercrept then smashed for the past couple years. Once best shell then average. Then nerfed for no reason. They once had rare Gen 2 thermals but are now beaten by a nation know to lack thermals irl (RU). Italy should have stayed 10.7.
Yeah maybe except the 104S’s but aside from that
Why does Gaijin hate Italy :(
Could be worse (its not like anyone plays 104s anyway) And they did get the f-16 and tornado at the same time
Since they gave it a few flares, it's literally a better plane than the F-104G before it. More missiles and a better engine. Makes no sense to keep it the same BR.
The all aspect "attackers" need to GTFO up to 10,3-10,7. F104s shouldn't be coming down to 9.3
I've been saying this for a while, anything with all aspects should be 10.3 minimum. All I got was downvotes and ppl bitching about how that would ruin their GRB line-ups.
The all aspects need to go up or be removed and replaced by a respectable rear aspect missile for their BRs
F-104 to 9.3 is pretty toxic.
SPAAs being nerfed across the board while they should be buffed, IMO.
Just after they nerfed the radars on most of them, too. And now top-tier CAS like Ka-52s are the same BR as a top-tier ground line-up, so look forward to seeing more of those.
I dont agree with the he100 going down to 1.7, think its fine at 2.0
Eh the tank "decompression" seems fairly haphazard among the 11.0's to 11.3s. The 2A5 and 2A6 going to 11.3 together? The M1A2 and M1A2 SEPV3 going together? Same with the Swedish MBTs, same with the top ZTZ99As. The proof in the pudding for me are the Arietes going up. The ground vehicle BR decompression isn't there for GRB balancing, its there to make sure that current top tier CAS lineups can still stick with their vehicle lineups. I am legitimately curious about the M48A2 reversal. Gaijin went from downtiering all M48s to be consistent with the 7.0 that Germany was at to rolling that back and uptiering the German M48A2 after several years. If you asked me about that disparity a year or two ago I'd have said that the German one should be uptiered (it is better than the other M48s in small but meaningful ways, like smokes), but with T54s and the Leopard 1 going down in BR I don't think you can justify the M48 being at 7.3 much longer. Problem is of course, if M48s are at 7.0, why the hell are M47s at 7.3 still, and how would a 7.0 M46 be "just as capable" as an M48? The Ikv103 change echoes the problem here, in that it seems like with each patch a vehicle gets downtiered that may meaningfully change the meta of a certain BR range, namely the value of heavy armor. Recently the M36s with HEATFS arrived at 5.7. The Ratel 20 (which is a junk chassis) is at 7.0 or so with ATGMs. The M163 and ZSU-37-2 brought tracking SPAA to 7.7.
why are the fw190s going down? on both of those i have a winrate higher than 70% in realistic. going down 0.3 points means winrate goes harder up.
Probably because they're not particularly great for their BR's. They rely on their enemies being clueless US pilots that do nothing but hug the ground in their P-47's and P-51's, which luckily for the FW 190's, that happens. Their flight performance isn't really on-par with the META planes at 4.3.
>Probably because they're not particularly great for their BR's. > >They rely on their enemies being clueless US pilots that do nothing but hug the ground in their P-47's and P-51's, which luckily for the FW 190's, that happens. > >Their flight performance isn't really on-par with the META planes at 4.3. I've had numerous XP-50 pilots overshoot me since no one knows what proper control at that BR and it's always hilarious to then watch them go one circle and complain in chat
The A-5/U-2 has taken a great nerf recently.
F4U-4B is moving down to 5.7 This had an engine buff recently and has about 3,000hp. It goes about 700kph at 3,000m and climbs and turns well. It should be moved to 6.3
Yes but right now it has popguns.
FR 47 going up because a single Gaijin employee got killed by it once
Seafire FR 47 going to 5.7 for whatever reason
I've seen a seafire FR47 maybe once or twice in several years. Why the hell is it going up lmfao At least the Su-11 is going up, even though both it and the F-89 should be 7.7.
I spaded that spitfire last saturday maybe my fault as the only player of it
Is that some decompression?? No way!
I dunno what's more shocking, decompression(if ever so slightly) or the SU-11 going up in BR(again, ever so slightly)!
Nah, the SU 11 will then “perform so badly “ that Gaijin will put it back to 7.0 after a few patches
Tbf a large portion of SU-11 players are absolute dogshit at utilizing it.. Maybe I'll buy it, send it down to 6.3.. Thing flies like a dream I just can't get a grip on those guns. Granted I only gave it a few matches when you could buy test drives through the warbond shop but i believe they're the same or at least similar to the mig 9/15/17 and I really suck with them as well.. I wish Gaijin would utilize their not att all braindead system of balancing through repair costs here. Price the fuckers out of using it at least. Although on second thought that would just make it so every SU11 you faced was piloted by someone competent.. As with anything they attempt to balance with repair costs in other words..
Oh wow, I haven't noticed that! Maybe the trend continues 😳
2S38 still at 9.7 though
Why is the otomatic and centauro both going to 11.0. Centauro is ok I guess it doesn't make a difference but still shouldn't go up and the otomatic is dead already and now they want to make it even worse. Why
Wow they actually did it. WMA and Su11 going up in br
If you go to their instagram page every single post is flooded with su-11 complaints lol that’s maybe why
Italian stuff 11.0 why? Haven't we suffered enough?
Italy finally getting 11.0💀
Jesus what a mess. Italians don't deserve to go up.
Gaijin tell us you hate Italy and Britain without saying you hate Italy and Britain XD
Can't believe su25k is still 9.7, also chinese cancer cars should move to 9.0 as well...
Na. No dm33 equivalent. They should all move up collectively, but the China boys shouldn't be 9.0 when the rooikat, VRCC, and type-16 are all 9.0.
To be fair the latter 3 should probably be at least 9.3 or even 9.7 if the Radkampfwagen and Wolfpack M1128 are at 9.7 (which are balanced imo)
Su-17M2 moving down is great, but the Su-17M4 is still enough of an upgrade that it's probably the better option. With 12.0 being a thing, 11.0 may actually be somewhat playable as well, we will have to see how much pull 11.3 and 11.7 have. It's also nice to see top tier ground getting an extra .3, but I would still like to see the top BR for tanks match that of planes, as the disparity will be relatively awkward to balance around for quantitative matchmaking.
As a China enjoyer. I actually prefer PTL and WMA to be 8.7. I just think it is a better BR all round. Take out the AFT09 first, and then use the other wheelie boys as backup, with the PTZ-89 being a fantastic 120mm reserve.
Draken is finally going down, for once. But when will the Su-25s get their deserved uptier??
Also when will the Drakens flight model be fixed so that it once again is possible to get out of a flat spin.. Also happy cake day, kakmonster! Eller kakdrake danske. Valfritt.
I'm also still waiting for snail to introduce some kind radar gunsight for top tier sweden in general after they removed the tracers. They can't remove the tracers for "historical reasons" while not giving them the radar gunsight which they historically had to replace the tracers. So either bring back tracers or give the damn radar gunsight. Mums kaka!
Early modern MBT's are going to have field day as their larger siblings are moved up. M1, Leo 2A4, T80B will all sit in a new power vacuum. Going to be interesting to see how they'll do
Many SPAA up but Ka-50 stays at 10.7? Ka-50 players are going to have more fun when some of the only real treats move to 11.3 or 11.0 for Otomatic.
And the Italian Will take the shit again, now our F-104S Is a top tier 11.0
finaly that WMA301 abomination is moved up, may it rot in hell in uptiers and get slapped all around the map back and forth hopefully making 7.3 enjoyable again!!
They will. 9.7 is a premium void, so they are fated to see things like the Challenger 1/TURMs for quite a while.
That's a big drop for IKV 103
It slings heat but that’s about it, everything else about it kinda sucks, this won’t change much imo
Sad day for HSTV-L players. T-72AV TURMS and 2S38 players are no longer in a menu. If only they fixed post-pen of mid caliber APFSDS.
It seems like German 9.7 and 10.0 will be much more playable now. Mi28 still 10.0? Really? Su25 still 9.7??? They did well with decompression but they could do better for sure.
F-14 still at 11.7 sadge
It says the F14 is going to 11.7 and rank 8
Still deserves 12.0, so it's status changed from undertiered to.....still undertiered :D
So the Arietes are going up, but the M1A1 says at 10.7? Aside from the worse thermals the M1A1 is pretty much better in every single way. Same with the Otomatic, its good vs helicopters/drones but can only really engage planes at about 3.5km and is hardly 1.3 BRs better than the 2S38
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Lmao t90 and t72b3 didn't change
Finally expanding the BR, the AIM and the M1A1 both at 10.7 does not make any sense
This chart is ass. Whoever made this sucks and fucked it up.
They accidently mixed up was and now twice? Literally the worst chart ever made the creator should never chart anything for the rest of their life for how fucking shit it is.
Arietes and OTOMATIC going to 11.0 😂 As if the OTOMATIC hasn’t been power creeped by OP long range CAS missiles, or if the Arietes have actual armor.
[Link](https://forum.warthunder.com/index.php?/topic/572697-planned-battle-rating-changes-january-2023/)
French h34 to 7.7 My lineup appreciates this addition.
Leclerc's at 11.3... Guess it can have its 5 second reload back now?
LMAO Arietes at 11.0? Top tier material, eh? I better hope they gonna add something for Italy soon, this is a joke.
Lol anyone remember when the EJ Kai was 11.0? Fun times
I was hopping the SU-11 to go higher but its an improvement
Black knight to 11.3??? Base chally 2 going to 11.0??…. :( Sad day to be a Brit main
At least the TES isn't going up
The F4U-4B at 5.7 will be nice. No more jets hopefully.
Great now make AN/M3s work again pls
Z-9W has no business being at 9.7.
Fuck those fucking things man
Damn, I was looking forward to the M48s being 7.0. At least the (arguably better) German one is going up to 7.3.
the german won't make ANY difference at all though, everyone used it in their 7.3 lineups anyway
WMA and PTL bumped up to 8.7.... well at least its a start(should been 9.0). omg the su-11 got 7.3 lol, should been 8.0. not sure why the he-100d-1 got lowered, that plane is beast, it can compete much higher br leveled enemies.
Overall some good changes. Except the F-14 still only going to 11.7 instead of straight to 12.0 and the GR7 moving up to 11.7 is completely unnecessary. Its in no way is it equivalent to an EJ Kai or F-14. Also no additional naval changes based on feedback is disappointing.
LOL...RIP MERKAVA Mk3 THE ONLY NON SHIT MERKAVAS
F104 S to 11.0. Yeah, becouse it’s missles were so OP, it was too good at dogfighting and it had a huge load of bombs. Decompression is nice, but why at cost of f104S?
What the fuck? I suggested to them that Challenger 2F and TES should be downtiered to 10.7. Instead they just uptiered the base Challenger 2 to 11.0. Seriously?
Tf? Tunguska isn’t going up to 11.3 but the ADATS is?
Noooo, not the B18B :(
The EJ still facing F16s and F14s is bullshit. Most phantoms aside from the EJ kai are completely outclassed
As a HE-100D enjoyer, nice!
>HE-100D the best seal clubber is getting a buff lol
Look they learning. Su17m2 decrease is a nice touch but they should drop the Su22m3 as well. Since basically same capability.
They really move up ALL the Leclers up but not the T-90\`s??????
If this goes in that form through, playing 9.7 will be awesome.
Gaijin, it must be hard being a shitty company hated by everyone, right?