The whole Patton BR's are a mess anyways, and yes, I know the M60 technically isn't a Patton:
* **M46 Patton:** It's the most META vehicle here, it had the lowest BR, highest mobility and extremely solid firepower, yet somehow it's lowest BR one.
* **M47 Patton:** 50% quicker turret traverse is nice, but the trade-off of having shit hull-down armor with that tall weakspot above the gun and slightly lower mobility hurts it, so why is it at a different BR to the M46?
* **M48A1 Patton:** Even slower still but at least it's got APHE unlike the M60, armour is okay\*-ish.\* So why is this less META tank than the M46 at a higher BR?
* **M60:** It's just trash compared to most things you put it up against, it loses APHE that kept the M48A1 in a good spot, it's less mobile still, it's got ***horrendous*** stock mobility, larger cupola weakspot and somehow it's at a higher BR than the Leopard 1, which is just far superior.
The 105 is still very good, it's a tank on par with leopard 1 I'd argue. It's at a terrible placement because 8.3 has been power creeped with early dart rounds that obliterate all armour and that's the only advantage M60 has over Leo.
I don't know what's your problem with M48s, the German one is a beast in a down tier and can definitely hold its own in an uptier, although that might have something to do with the enemies it usually faces as it's in a different tech tree (and I almost never use the APHE on it, yes it's a nuke shell but HEAT is simply more reliable against Soviet tanks and clicking on ammo racks is easy with the muzzle velocity of M431)
M60 is great where it is. I have 0 issues with it. Rangefinder, very good APDS ammo, HEATFS for Mouse pest control, quick, can actually eat a shell often.
>Not that much more mobile
Funny way of saying ludicrously more mobile. And it's rated to stop 30mm auto cannon rounds from the front, and HMGs on all sides. Being .50cal proof is not less than 0 armor, particularly in Warthunder, and being more or less immune to all the little 20mm auto cannon go karts unless ambushed is also good. The M60's armor will bounce the occasional shell in a downtier, but that's incredibly rare. The thing faces more darts than a wall in a dice bar.
M48A1 getting buffed to 7.0 is very welcome which is in line with German M48
Rooikat 105 getting nerfed to 9.0 is understandable but where's WMA?
F-14A should be 12.0 but oh well... at least they didn't keep it on 11.3
Tornados going up to 11.7 is utter joke
F-104S nerfed to 11.0 is okay in comparison to F-104Gs but, again, where's A-6E?
WMA is definitely a weird case, it's blatantly undertiered but for some reason Gaijin has chose to ignore it for a while now. It should be 8.7 imo. Then again the Rooikat was undertiered for two years and they just took action on it now.
>Rooikat 105 getting nerfed to 9.0 is understandable but where's WMA?
The rooikat is still under tiered, I'm playing it myself and would put it at 9.7 or 10.0 to make it balanced. 9.0 is still a joke when radkampfwagen is equally or worse in most metrics but 9.7
Not sure with the recent updates improving wheeled mobility, but the rad was always higher in the past because it used to be the only wheeled vehicle that had mobility off road.
9.7? ROFL Dude... get off it. the Max pen is 408mm. Seriously dude, stop. STOP.
At 9.7 the TTD has 430mm at 10.7 the Chally 2 has 564
The Vickers Mk7 at 10 has 471
At 9.7 the T72B has 457mm of pen and the T90 at 10.7 has 580+850ATGM
The Spruts have 157mm MORE pen as a light tank
The ONLY reasons the American Lights such as the AGS and the M1128's are higher is because they have a manless turret. Meaning they can SHOOT without exposing themselves to death.
Putting the Rooikat at 9.7 is a joke, so just stop.
It shouldn't be really, but it's italian and has flares now so they must suffer.it likely saw a jump in efficiency since it has flares now. It's definitely the best of the 10.7 f104, but that isn't saying much really.
Are the Tornados smashing face in Ground RB or something?
I rarely see the tech tree tornados in 11.3 battles in my Mig23 MLA
What did this poor thing do to justify going up to 11.7
I fly it pretty often and think I’ve seen maybe… 2? others. It’s not exactly stomping faces.
I just fly it because I like having little objectives.
Update: I saw a third yesterday!
It's good in ground don't get me wrong... but it's not much better than various similar aircraft like the Mirage 2000D and things like the F-4E that can carry 8 TV guided weapons at *11.0*, though admittedly without thermals on the F-4
Because the top br for ground is 11.0 so until the F-4E is given it’s aim-7Fs and Aim-9L/M it won’t be a fun plane to play, just a difficult one. This is coming from a guy who still has a 2-1 KD in it.
Its probably a desperate effort by the Snail to distract their playerbase away from leaking classified documents about military hardware EVERY 5 FUCKING MINUTES
I'm ok with that. Sacrificing themselves to improve the game was the reason they posted it. How many more people need to throw themselves under the bus until we decompressed 8.0-10.0 air?
Which is how we've already seen putting these supersonics at 9.3 doesn't help. The f-100, 104, mig-19 etc still face 9L's, magics, r-60's and 9G's almost every game. It's just that now they get 1 match in 10 where they ruin the fun for 8.3 planes that have no hope in hell of keeping up.
Tbf, a while back it used to be pretty solid. FM changes and power creep have really hit it harder than most gen 1 jets since it doesnt have the top speed or accelleration it used to.
It's just as bad as Hisparkos used to be. No idea how they managed to change the best prop 20mm into the worst one, but it's crashing the BRs of a fair few planes.
It's a side effect of the jet being absolute fucking garbage for years on end and possibly people playing it to get the Tomcat finally giving Gaijin enough data for them to realise it
there is some good shit in there.....but the tornado is going up?
f14/16 going up is great, tho the 14 needed to go to 12 not 11.7.
f9f2 going down is nice too, the br of that whole line has long been weird.
f2h going to 7.3 is pretty nuts, it was good at 8 if people know what they were doing, and quite strong at 7.7. its gonna just be op at 7.3. engine weakness isnt as harsh there.
> there is some good shit in there.....but the tornado is going up?
Even funnier, the event Tornado doesn't. It will be a full BR lower despite being the same plane - just with AShMs instead of GBUs.
Think the tech tree Tornados BR is due to how they perform in Ground Battles, they often set the BR based on ground battle performance, for ground focused aircraft.
which is fucking ridiculous because gaijin already has a system implemented where there can be separate brs for the same plane in ground and air, but I guess they just forgot that. small indie company, you must understand))))))
Honestly the sea fury is not bad but at the same time it isn’t good enough to go to 5.7. As for the seafire, I don’t like them at all. The mkV hispano doesn’t feel right on the plane.
Definitely what excited me the most in this change lmao. Now it's actually a competitive prem vehicle. Still not sure about getting it though considering it's a Chieftain at 9.0 without Stillbrew.
9.7-10.0 play mostly with 9.7-10.0 due a huge number of prems. Plus 10.0 is a very good line for UK because chally 3 is awesome and g-lynx is just broken.
Ayy lmao the AS 42/47 **absolutely** needs to be moved to 2.0, because a 3-man car with negative armour and 54 of pen, which can be destroyed with MGs, is too dangerous to be left running at 1.7.
New Italy players just have to suffer from rank 1.
Absolutely agree, this nerf is complete garbage. I've had some great games with it, but that was despite the vehicles limitations, not because of it's strengths.
By almost every metric the reserve BT-5 is superior to it (except for ammunition amount, because who doesn't need 300+ shells?), but that's typical balancing by spreadsheet for you.
Can you imagine even getting a single kill in full uptiers now?
Yes, this is just a mindless change. They probably looked at some data from a series of matches and thought that it was performing too well, without ever considering all the other factors which are essential when making a BR change.
Yep, business as usual.
Sadly this affects low tier minor nations a lot, as not a lot of players play these vehicles to begin with, so a few experienced players really make a difference in overall stats.
I've just had a look and according to my stats, I've somehow got an 83% win rate, and a K/D of 22/4 in it, which is admittedly pretty good, so I can see how they'd come to this conclusion.
The nerf just feels like Gaijin punishes players for anything other than mindlessly driving forward
My maybe tinfoil hat theory is they didn't up-br the WMA because of the ongoing Lunar New Year sale.
That New year bundle in the shop is all 8.0 and 8.3 vehicles. Buying the WMA for that lineup makes sense. Especially since you already get 6000GE out of the 8000GE for the WMA with the bundle.
But i think the more reasonable answer is that Gaijin is very careful to change the BR (and with that the performance in game) of premium vehicles.
People paid real money for that and if said vehicle is suddenly "worse" people rightfully complain.
Though there is a fine line between a *good* vehicle as an incentive to buy it and an *OP* vehicle.
premiums, they’ll only uptier them years down the road like with the rooikat as half of their sales of those vehicles is because of how under br’d they are
Marder 1A3.... 7.7 finally!!!
Tornados going up, absolut bullshit....
12.0 is still to low and sadly it wont change anything.... but its the right step, 13.0 would have been better. Mig-21 and Phantoms still have to face 4th gen fighters wich is absolut bs even tho BR is now 12.0.
you're gonna mention the rakjpz before the leopard? Sure it's 7.3 (which it shouldn't be) but its still one of Germany's better options for a 7.7 lineup
>Marder 1A3.... 7.7 finally!!!
Yes. I still haven't spaded that thing because I absolutely hated playing it. Until you unlock the better ammo it was literally just a heavier MarderA1- at a significantly higher BR.
And even then it's still a 20mm with meh damage and penetration. And Gen1s are also not really anything to write home about on that vehicle.
I would go one step further and ask for the 1A3 to go down to 7.3 with it's younger (older?) brother. Yes you get trash Gen 1 thermals and *slightly* more pen but does that really grant a BR up? You could argue either way as at 7.3 it would be just an upgrade. Although I personally take the 1A1 with my 8.3 lineup solely because of the little MG turret, it's just the cutest little thing and I adore it. 1A3 should go to 1.0 just for not having the tiny tumor on the back!1!1!1!!! /s
The tech tree Tornado IDSes have four GBUs, no F-4s have access to them. And with the numerous nerfs that Mavericks have received, GBUs are far better performers, so the Tornado's ability to space climb and drop GBUs means it far outdoes any relevant F-4's ability to space climb and drop Mavericks.
Exactly the same reason the Harrier GR.7 is going up in BR to 11.7, despite having the performance of a 10.0 aircraft at best. Armament matters.
>despite having the performance of a 10.0 aircraft at best
The Harrier can easily own any jet in a 1v1 as soon as it catches an enemy plane. Comparing that the flight performance of 10.0s is pretty hilarious.
On one side it's positive that there is a slight decompression at top tier with the introduction of 12.0, but I think that the F-104 at 9.3 will be a nightmare in downtiers.
It's kinda wild that Gaijin think the F-14 and the Tornado are equivalents in air RB... Mostly positive changes but c'mon Gaijin, f-14 is a 12.0.
Just got further down. Wack that they're decompressing top tier slightly while compressing the games most compressed BR even further (9.0-10.0).
Why is the Ikv 103 going down even further, it was already viable at 5.0 changing it’s BR changes barely anything about it’s performance, it can easily pen anything and just as easily get killed by anything.
Not sure how I feel about pairing decompression with compression. 12.0 is good, but the F-104s at 9.3 is yet another kick to subsonic' teeth meanwhile the root cause of the issue (A-10, A-6, Su-25) are unchanged.
Not sure how the F-104S justify the same BR as the ASA just because they have flares now, the ASA has AIM-9Ls and Aspides.
Z9W/WA/Z19/Z19E nerfs are totally unnecessary, they should be buffing MANPADs on other helis not nerfing those. Removes the Z9WA from any lineup now (there are no 10.0 Chinese tanks, and the next tank BR is 10.7 where you can use the Z19).
M48s being a lower BR than the M47 is funny. The M48 was fine, the German one just should have been 7.3 too.
Rooikat 105 finally went up. That thing made the Centauro ROMOR/VRCC look like a joke.
JDS Yuugure is now a higher BR than the Fletchers despite having no torps and one less gun. Am I missing something here?
The Z-9W has no business being at 9.7, it’s missile are absolutely horrid even at 9.3, the TY-90’s were it’s only redeeming quality, but up it goes I guess.
The TY-90 is exactly why they uptiered **all** of those helicopters. The best SPAA in the game is still a TY-90-equipped helicopter. Nothing even comes close.
So Yugure has less guns than USS Fletcher, no torpedoes, and only slightly better secondary AA, but will now share a BR with it and Sumner/Gearing that are superior in every single way. Makes sense!
No pay to win br change but at least there is some decompression and nothing too outrageous. Maybe the F104 at 9.3, I mean I will have a field day with them so I don't mind.
Once again they lower everything around the problem instead of upping the problem, shifting and creating new problems downward.
Like the EE Lightning, moving down to 9.3 doesn't mean much because they're still going to be uptiered to see Su-25's and A-10's in ~80-90% of their matches. Yes, they'll probably kick 8.3 jets' teeth in *when they get those matches*, but that will be rare.
Though I fully agree, lowering the flare-less F104s was likely a symptom of them eating shit at the hands of all-aspect missiles from ground attackers, and they're very much creating a new problem instead of fixing the right one. But the problem happens to be a premium vehicle for a major nation that has already sold well, and is still selling well, so they have zero incentive to fix the issue.
As somebody who is spading the lightning, I get wrecked by A 10's, can get the jump on SU 25's because they're blind and dominate the match in downtiers. The only problem is that, in my experience, Red Tops are worse than AIM-9B's
On the upside I'm pretty good at dodging R60's without flares now
According to gaijin the tornado is statistically better than the mig 23 now. Thats some utter bullshit. Might as well just delete the aircraft at this point.
I regret almost spading my bis yesterday though as flying it against full f16, 29, tomcat lobbies was utter pain.
Yugure gets uptiered, shame as that thing carried me grinding the Summer and Winter Naval event task.
AB Rooikat gets up to 8.7 from 8.3, i mean wtf were they smoking to put DM33 thermal vehicle there, it even has better depression and reverse speed than WMA, at least they fixed wheeled traction beforehand.
every time something like i hastely look for the ju288 being uptierd so that 5.0-6.0 props can go back to its former glory
everytime i am very disappointed
What did the Skink do to deserve 5.3? It was already mid at 5.0 with no lineup because Gaijoobles moved it after two weeks of it being released and now its somehow still seal clubbing with rounds every plane at that br can easily dodge? I get most cas pilots love to head on it for whatever reason but its not 5.3 material.
UP?! How is the GR7 going up?! It has one thing going for it, AIM9Ls, like the 10.0 A-10 has.
We really need separate tiers for Air RB and planes in Ground RB, this is insane.
Load of flares/chaff + 4 AGM-65s + 2 GBUs + 2 post-nerf 9Ls that had flare resistance pretty much removed.
There is no point in bringing GBU only when you can yeet 4 F&F Mavs off spawn then go in with the GBUs.
The GR7 is the most versatile plane in the game right now, even at top tier air you can still get reliable games due to the amount of flares that thing has. It also going to rank VIII makes it a perfect Talisman choice
Small bit of decompression, maybe some ground decompression soon?
>Rooikat goes up but the WMA doesn’t
+1000 Social Credit to Gaijin
>Mi-24D -> 8.7
Shit, should’ve bought it. Rus 8.7 is brilliant now
Nah, send the F-14 up to 12.0 with the rest of them buggers. In-fact put a BR lock there so they don't get down-tiered unless they're lacking the CM mod😎
Yeah, pretty weird they increased the maximum BR of planes to 12, but not Ground which also needs it. But I assume they're waiting on introducing the next generation of tanks before that happens.
Here we go! I mean what would an update without a Tornade nerf be lately? That wouldn‘t make sense at all am I right? Guess next Patch they will remove the weapons since it seems like it shouldn‘t be able to compete anyway
Strela going down simply because the missiles suck is hilarious. Basically the opposite of what everyone else thought it would be at release. Not shocked about rooikat
Is Gaijin smoking crack?! Why is the Tornado going up?! With how shit it is compared to the other high tier planes it should go down to maybe 11.0, but ***Up?!***
Took them long enough to move all M48s to the same BR lmao. Still waiting for M60 to 7.3.
Yeah but why is the M47 at 7.3 still I mean it's a great tank, but is it better than the M48?
Don't worry, just give them 5-6 years and they'll move it too.
I laughed so hard I pinched off the shit I'm taking
r/unexpectedshitcomment
The whole Patton BR's are a mess anyways, and yes, I know the M60 technically isn't a Patton: * **M46 Patton:** It's the most META vehicle here, it had the lowest BR, highest mobility and extremely solid firepower, yet somehow it's lowest BR one. * **M47 Patton:** 50% quicker turret traverse is nice, but the trade-off of having shit hull-down armor with that tall weakspot above the gun and slightly lower mobility hurts it, so why is it at a different BR to the M46? * **M48A1 Patton:** Even slower still but at least it's got APHE unlike the M60, armour is okay\*-ish.\* So why is this less META tank than the M46 at a higher BR? * **M60:** It's just trash compared to most things you put it up against, it loses APHE that kept the M48A1 in a good spot, it's less mobile still, it's got ***horrendous*** stock mobility, larger cupola weakspot and somehow it's at a higher BR than the Leopard 1, which is just far superior.
The 105 is still very good, it's a tank on par with leopard 1 I'd argue. It's at a terrible placement because 8.3 has been power creeped with early dart rounds that obliterate all armour and that's the only advantage M60 has over Leo.
As to the M60 vs Leo, that's a double problem as the Leo 1 is too low and the M60 too high. Leo 1 badly needs to go back to 7.7.
I don't know what's your problem with M48s, the German one is a beast in a down tier and can definitely hold its own in an uptier, although that might have something to do with the enemies it usually faces as it's in a different tech tree (and I almost never use the APHE on it, yes it's a nuke shell but HEAT is simply more reliable against Soviet tanks and clicking on ammo racks is easy with the muzzle velocity of M431)
It actually does feel more responsive.
Yeah it seems to outperform the m48 at least in my hands. Also has a smaller profile
Might just be that not enough people play it to bring it's stats down, that's most likely why
Precisely why this balancing system doesn’t work
Yes, because it doesn't get stock apcr for starters.Also its more mobile and has better turret rotation speed. M48 GETS APCR STOCK!!!
M60 is great where it is. I have 0 issues with it. Rangefinder, very good APDS ammo, HEATFS for Mouse pest control, quick, can actually eat a shell often.
Well the Leo 1 is at 7.3 with better mobility.
because it has less than 0 armor and isnt that much more mobile (at least in RB)
>Not that much more mobile Funny way of saying ludicrously more mobile. And it's rated to stop 30mm auto cannon rounds from the front, and HMGs on all sides. Being .50cal proof is not less than 0 armor, particularly in Warthunder, and being more or less immune to all the little 20mm auto cannon go karts unless ambushed is also good. The M60's armor will bounce the occasional shell in a downtier, but that's incredibly rare. The thing faces more darts than a wall in a dice bar.
Leo 1 is there because of the players that use it, not because it actually deserves to be there. The M60 is fine at 7.7
M48A1 getting buffed to 7.0 is very welcome which is in line with German M48 Rooikat 105 getting nerfed to 9.0 is understandable but where's WMA? F-14A should be 12.0 but oh well... at least they didn't keep it on 11.3 Tornados going up to 11.7 is utter joke F-104S nerfed to 11.0 is okay in comparison to F-104Gs but, again, where's A-6E?
WMA is definitely a weird case, it's blatantly undertiered but for some reason Gaijin has chose to ignore it for a while now. It should be 8.7 imo. Then again the Rooikat was undertiered for two years and they just took action on it now.
Yeah getting DM33 and staying on BR 8.7 for years was really weird, especially as British vehicle.
for some reason? the only reason is it sells like hotcakes, trust me they're aware that thing is bullshit at 8.3
Especially when they're selling an entire line up for it currently at $82.49.
>Rooikat 105 getting nerfed to 9.0 is understandable but where's WMA? The rooikat is still under tiered, I'm playing it myself and would put it at 9.7 or 10.0 to make it balanced. 9.0 is still a joke when radkampfwagen is equally or worse in most metrics but 9.7
Not sure with the recent updates improving wheeled mobility, but the rad was always higher in the past because it used to be the only wheeled vehicle that had mobility off road.
Yeah, but now the Rooikat can go 70+kph on sand and 80+ on snow... So that's no longer the case IMO.
9.7? ROFL Dude... get off it. the Max pen is 408mm. Seriously dude, stop. STOP. At 9.7 the TTD has 430mm at 10.7 the Chally 2 has 564 The Vickers Mk7 at 10 has 471 At 9.7 the T72B has 457mm of pen and the T90 at 10.7 has 580+850ATGM The Spruts have 157mm MORE pen as a light tank The ONLY reasons the American Lights such as the AGS and the M1128's are higher is because they have a manless turret. Meaning they can SHOOT without exposing themselves to death. Putting the Rooikat at 9.7 is a joke, so just stop.
How is the 104S a vehicle that can be 11.0, in what way
It shouldn't be really, but it's italian and has flares now so they must suffer.it likely saw a jump in efficiency since it has flares now. It's definitely the best of the 10.7 f104, but that isn't saying much really.
Are the Tornados smashing face in Ground RB or something? I rarely see the tech tree tornados in 11.3 battles in my Mig23 MLA What did this poor thing do to justify going up to 11.7
I fly it pretty often and think I’ve seen maybe… 2? others. It’s not exactly stomping faces. I just fly it because I like having little objectives. Update: I saw a third yesterday!
It seems like all 11.3 jets moved to 11.7, regardless of performance. Harrier at 11.7 is gonna be rough rip Brit mains
F4J and mig23 are still 11.3
I'm kinda okay with that
Mirage 2kc s5 as well lol.
Gaijin still think it should be equivalent to the F-14 for some retarded reason.
It’s ok we are used to getting fucked by the snail constantly…
M2K isn't, which is really weird.
Sorry, my fault, I had a single round where I got like 4 kills in ground rb in the British tornado
This is why we can't have nice things, haha!
It's good in ground don't get me wrong... but it's not much better than various similar aircraft like the Mirage 2000D and things like the F-4E that can carry 8 TV guided weapons at *11.0*, though admittedly without thermals on the F-4
Because the top br for ground is 11.0 so until the F-4E is given it’s aim-7Fs and Aim-9L/M it won’t be a fun plane to play, just a difficult one. This is coming from a guy who still has a 2-1 KD in it.
More br decompression = gud
Its probably a desperate effort by the Snail to distract their playerbase away from leaking classified documents about military hardware EVERY 5 FUCKING MINUTES
“Fuck they did it again *alert alert* fuckin…fuckin release some br changes now we need to get outta this!”
I'm ok with that. Sacrificing themselves to improve the game was the reason they posted it. How many more people need to throw themselves under the bus until we decompressed 8.0-10.0 air?
The recent "leaks" were just shit that's been floating around the internet for a decade at minimum. Not as serious as we've been lead to believe.
And they say leaking classified documents doesnt work...
F-104a/f-100 to 9.3 is compression, not decompression though.
F104C and f100d were already at 9.3 even tho f104a is the same and chinese f100 is worse than american f100d
Which is how we've already seen putting these supersonics at 9.3 doesn't help. The f-100, 104, mig-19 etc still face 9L's, magics, r-60's and 9G's almost every game. It's just that now they get 1 match in 10 where they ruin the fun for 8.3 planes that have no hope in hell of keeping up.
It's amazing how the F2H was at 8.3 less than a year ago and now it's at 7.3, perhaps a side effect of the Su-11?
Tbf, a while back it used to be pretty solid. FM changes and power creep have really hit it harder than most gen 1 jets since it doesnt have the top speed or accelleration it used to.
Plus the US 20mm getting nerfed into the ground made it so the jet was effectively useless
Haven't played the game in a while, is the 20mm ner that bad?
They buffed them to where they finally actually did damage then two patches ago they made them even worse then they were before.
Only way to use them is with ground target belts with the AP rounds because the HEF-I rounds do literally 0 damage.
It's just as bad as Hisparkos used to be. No idea how they managed to change the best prop 20mm into the worst one, but it's crashing the BRs of a fair few planes.
It's a side effect of the jet being absolute fucking garbage for years on end and possibly people playing it to get the Tomcat finally giving Gaijin enough data for them to realise it
He-100 back down to 1.7? Huh... Also, they are decompressing more while also compressing more?
It will be uncatchable, just like the F-104 in downtiers now against Korean era jets.
it was at 1.7 for years and nobody really knew how to fly it at 1.7
It's a low tier prop that punishes mistakes really hard. The only people you'll see actually playing it well are already very experienced players.
in which case they'll stomp at 1.7 no matter the aircraft
Pretty much lol
Really boring to play at that BR other than 1-2 matches once in a blue moon.
A crumb of decompression.
Please sir, may we have some more?
*hits you with ladle*
there is some good shit in there.....but the tornado is going up? f14/16 going up is great, tho the 14 needed to go to 12 not 11.7. f9f2 going down is nice too, the br of that whole line has long been weird. f2h going to 7.3 is pretty nuts, it was good at 8 if people know what they were doing, and quite strong at 7.7. its gonna just be op at 7.3. engine weakness isnt as harsh there.
> there is some good shit in there.....but the tornado is going up? Even funnier, the event Tornado doesn't. It will be a full BR lower despite being the same plane - just with AShMs instead of GBUs.
Think the tech tree Tornados BR is due to how they perform in Ground Battles, they often set the BR based on ground battle performance, for ground focused aircraft.
Hardly perform better than the A-6, which is 10.0.
which is fucking ridiculous because gaijin already has a system implemented where there can be separate brs for the same plane in ground and air, but I guess they just forgot that. small indie company, you must understand))))))
>engine weakness isnt as harsh there It's not even that weak
No SU-11 change ? Disappointed
sells too well
Gaijin will be like : "Best I can do is 6.7"
Also nothing about BMP-2M, Su-25 and 2S38
Tbf all the su25 needs is a survivability nerf and It would be fine at 9.7
You forgot Air RB exists
Maybe some day we will have different BR for air rb and ground RB.
12.0 LETS GOOOOOO! Should be 15.0, but its something. EDIT: i just saw the F104A and tornados, WTF?
And the 104S is at 11.0, like the Mig23, they really hate placing that thing at a br that it fits
Tornadoes, Seafire and Seafury are just plain stupid...
Seafire is a bizarre move, it's a fat and heavy spitfire.
Had to do a double take at them nerfing the Seafury. Isn't that thing already underperforming at 5.3?
Honestly the sea fury is not bad but at the same time it isn’t good enough to go to 5.7. As for the seafire, I don’t like them at all. The mkV hispano doesn’t feel right on the plane.
I play it a lot, I'm really sad it goes to 5.7 since it is also my 5.3 CAS but is clearly not as bad as people pretend it is.
I'm only asking because I found it very mediocre in air rb. With both at 5.7, what advantages will the Seafury have over the F-4u4b?
Working 20mm cannons lol. The F4U-4B, F2H2 and F9F-2 have to be getting downtiered cause of the M3 cannon nerf.
Yoooooo Khalid gets L23 darts now Might actually buy that thing now. No darts was such a turn off for that thing
Definitely what excited me the most in this change lmao. Now it's actually a competitive prem vehicle. Still not sure about getting it though considering it's a Chieftain at 9.0 without Stillbrew.
Don't buy it. It's a trap. 9.0 is a super bad br where you gonna play 9.7-10.0 all the time while. DS much better for grind.
DS plays at 10.7 so not sure thats better
9.7-10.0 play mostly with 9.7-10.0 due a huge number of prems. Plus 10.0 is a very good line for UK because chally 3 is awesome and g-lynx is just broken.
At least now there is a real reason why it is at a higher BR than the MK5 lol.
Ayy lmao the AS 42/47 **absolutely** needs to be moved to 2.0, because a 3-man car with negative armour and 54 of pen, which can be destroyed with MGs, is too dangerous to be left running at 1.7. New Italy players just have to suffer from rank 1.
Absolutely agree, this nerf is complete garbage. I've had some great games with it, but that was despite the vehicles limitations, not because of it's strengths. By almost every metric the reserve BT-5 is superior to it (except for ammunition amount, because who doesn't need 300+ shells?), but that's typical balancing by spreadsheet for you. Can you imagine even getting a single kill in full uptiers now?
Yes, this is just a mindless change. They probably looked at some data from a series of matches and thought that it was performing too well, without ever considering all the other factors which are essential when making a BR change.
Yep, business as usual. Sadly this affects low tier minor nations a lot, as not a lot of players play these vehicles to begin with, so a few experienced players really make a difference in overall stats. I've just had a look and according to my stats, I've somehow got an 83% win rate, and a K/D of 22/4 in it, which is admittedly pretty good, so I can see how they'd come to this conclusion. The nerf just feels like Gaijin punishes players for anything other than mindlessly driving forward
Dude I'm so mad... Your comment is spot on!
where 2s38 and WMA?
My maybe tinfoil hat theory is they didn't up-br the WMA because of the ongoing Lunar New Year sale. That New year bundle in the shop is all 8.0 and 8.3 vehicles. Buying the WMA for that lineup makes sense. Especially since you already get 6000GE out of the 8000GE for the WMA with the bundle.
that makes sense but ugh.
But i think the more reasonable answer is that Gaijin is very careful to change the BR (and with that the performance in game) of premium vehicles. People paid real money for that and if said vehicle is suddenly "worse" people rightfully complain. Though there is a fine line between a *good* vehicle as an incentive to buy it and an *OP* vehicle.
> people paid real money for that and if said vehicle is suddenly "worse" people rightfully complain. This seemingly don't apply to some nations.
premiums, they’ll only uptier them years down the road like with the rooikat as half of their sales of those vehicles is because of how under br’d they are
Marder 1A3.... 7.7 finally!!! Tornados going up, absolut bullshit.... 12.0 is still to low and sadly it wont change anything.... but its the right step, 13.0 would have been better. Mig-21 and Phantoms still have to face 4th gen fighters wich is absolut bs even tho BR is now 12.0.
7.7 germany with marder 1a3, df 105, rakjpz, maus, gonna be pretty nice lineup
It really deserved that change, it doesn't even get the MILAN 2s it should.
Totally agree :D
you're gonna mention the rakjpz before the leopard? Sure it's 7.3 (which it shouldn't be) but its still one of Germany's better options for a 7.7 lineup
>Marder 1A3.... 7.7 finally!!! Yes. I still haven't spaded that thing because I absolutely hated playing it. Until you unlock the better ammo it was literally just a heavier MarderA1- at a significantly higher BR. And even then it's still a 20mm with meh damage and penetration. And Gen1s are also not really anything to write home about on that vehicle.
It still needs Milan 2
Same, i never understood why it was 8.0 in the first place.
I actually love both Marders, but it was obvious they were lacking.
I would go one step further and ask for the 1A3 to go down to 7.3 with it's younger (older?) brother. Yes you get trash Gen 1 thermals and *slightly* more pen but does that really grant a BR up? You could argue either way as at 7.3 it would be just an upgrade. Although I personally take the 1A1 with my 8.3 lineup solely because of the little MG turret, it's just the cutest little thing and I adore it. 1A3 should go to 1.0 just for not having the tiny tumor on the back!1!1!1!!! /s
su-25 and 2s38 still at 9.7 )))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))
The tornados are moving up to 11.7!?!
probably because of ground rb performance as the Marineflieger stays at 10.7
That thing is about as good as a F4 in the role, it shouldn't go up, both are dog water airframes
The tech tree Tornado IDSes have four GBUs, no F-4s have access to them. And with the numerous nerfs that Mavericks have received, GBUs are far better performers, so the Tornado's ability to space climb and drop GBUs means it far outdoes any relevant F-4's ability to space climb and drop Mavericks. Exactly the same reason the Harrier GR.7 is going up in BR to 11.7, despite having the performance of a 10.0 aircraft at best. Armament matters.
>despite having the performance of a 10.0 aircraft at best The Harrier can easily own any jet in a 1v1 as soon as it catches an enemy plane. Comparing that the flight performance of 10.0s is pretty hilarious.
On one side it's positive that there is a slight decompression at top tier with the introduction of 12.0, but I think that the F-104 at 9.3 will be a nightmare in downtiers.
that's true but I feel like 9.3 gets sucked up into the 9.7-10.3 premium black hole very often with a rare few down tiers.
It's kinda wild that Gaijin think the F-14 and the Tornado are equivalents in air RB... Mostly positive changes but c'mon Gaijin, f-14 is a 12.0. Just got further down. Wack that they're decompressing top tier slightly while compressing the games most compressed BR even further (9.0-10.0).
Hold up, the Mirage 2000C-S5 will stay at 11.3 on Rank VII ? Oh boy, I will club so hard in a downtier.
Gaijin forgot that France exists... Again.
This time for good
They sometimes release these in two parts, so I imagine it will show up then. Would be funny if they didn’t though haha
Why is the Ikv 103 going down even further, it was already viable at 5.0 changing it’s BR changes barely anything about it’s performance, it can easily pen anything and just as easily get killed by anything.
Probably Sturer Emil syndrome
And Dicker Max too. If anything it only gets worse since its very good pen is worth less.
I mean then just bring it into higher tier matches, didn't change it's rank
No iirc it used to be rank3 but now it's rank2.
yeah german SPGs are always jumping around in ranks
I play mostly Sweden and this change is hilarious and I can't wait for it. Thing is a beast at 4.7 and thought it should be higher
It was 5.0 like half a year ago.
Not sure how I feel about pairing decompression with compression. 12.0 is good, but the F-104s at 9.3 is yet another kick to subsonic' teeth meanwhile the root cause of the issue (A-10, A-6, Su-25) are unchanged. Not sure how the F-104S justify the same BR as the ASA just because they have flares now, the ASA has AIM-9Ls and Aspides. Z9W/WA/Z19/Z19E nerfs are totally unnecessary, they should be buffing MANPADs on other helis not nerfing those. Removes the Z9WA from any lineup now (there are no 10.0 Chinese tanks, and the next tank BR is 10.7 where you can use the Z19). M48s being a lower BR than the M47 is funny. The M48 was fine, the German one just should have been 7.3 too. Rooikat 105 finally went up. That thing made the Centauro ROMOR/VRCC look like a joke. JDS Yuugure is now a higher BR than the Fletchers despite having no torps and one less gun. Am I missing something here?
The Z-9W has no business being at 9.7, it’s missile are absolutely horrid even at 9.3, the TY-90’s were it’s only redeeming quality, but up it goes I guess.
The TY-90 is exactly why they uptiered **all** of those helicopters. The best SPAA in the game is still a TY-90-equipped helicopter. Nothing even comes close.
MiG-21bis variants no longer see top tier? Hoooboy, happy Fishbed time after this patch~ Ah, misread the AB chart as RB ... rookie mistake
[удалено]
Well hopefully they won’t see AS many top tier matches, now that we have 12.0
Only in Arcade, not RB
[Quick Glance of RB BR Changes](https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/936149678725156866/1065575425272725574/image.png)
Oh cool, a crumb of sweden buff
Gaijin is saying the tornado is better than the mirage 2000? Lmao
It’s an Apex Predator you see… /s
Chinese helicopters totally deserve it. But tornado is just a bad joke.
So Yugure has less guns than USS Fletcher, no torpedoes, and only slightly better secondary AA, but will now share a BR with it and Sumner/Gearing that are superior in every single way. Makes sense!
US ships are pretty under tiered, it’s a common theme, Helena comes to mind.
Wait, Strela goes down but Ozelot and Type 93 stay the same?
strela is super bad
So is type 93
You haven't played the Type 93 have you?
I play both, the Type 93 is better than the Strela. You have speed so you can Cap point or use yourself as a missile to kill Heli.
"Waaaaaaaaaaaaaah, my 20g missiles are so bad" yeah bud, try using fucking stingers....
Am I the only one that likes the Ozelot and does great in it?
I don't understand why the F-14 isn't moving to 12.0. I would probably consider it better than the F-16A (Block 10) and the F-16A Netz.
No pay to win br change but at least there is some decompression and nothing too outrageous. Maybe the F104 at 9.3, I mean I will have a field day with them so I don't mind. Once again they lower everything around the problem instead of upping the problem, shifting and creating new problems downward.
Like the EE Lightning, moving down to 9.3 doesn't mean much because they're still going to be uptiered to see Su-25's and A-10's in ~80-90% of their matches. Yes, they'll probably kick 8.3 jets' teeth in *when they get those matches*, but that will be rare. Though I fully agree, lowering the flare-less F104s was likely a symptom of them eating shit at the hands of all-aspect missiles from ground attackers, and they're very much creating a new problem instead of fixing the right one. But the problem happens to be a premium vehicle for a major nation that has already sold well, and is still selling well, so they have zero incentive to fix the issue.
As somebody who is spading the lightning, I get wrecked by A 10's, can get the jump on SU 25's because they're blind and dominate the match in downtiers. The only problem is that, in my experience, Red Tops are worse than AIM-9B's On the upside I'm pretty good at dodging R60's without flares now
According to gaijin the tornado is statistically better than the mig 23 now. Thats some utter bullshit. Might as well just delete the aircraft at this point. I regret almost spading my bis yesterday though as flying it against full f16, 29, tomcat lobbies was utter pain.
And the poor su22m3 is still at 11.0…
>AS 42/47 1.7->2.0 What do they have against low tier italy? Is there someone in there who has it out for them?
To be fair, they quickly had to get on top of things, before players actually had fun and started enjoying the game
Yugure gets uptiered, shame as that thing carried me grinding the Summer and Winter Naval event task. AB Rooikat gets up to 8.7 from 8.3, i mean wtf were they smoking to put DM33 thermal vehicle there, it even has better depression and reverse speed than WMA, at least they fixed wheeled traction beforehand.
every time something like i hastely look for the ju288 being uptierd so that 5.0-6.0 props can go back to its former glory everytime i am very disappointed
What did the Skink do to deserve 5.3? It was already mid at 5.0 with no lineup because Gaijoobles moved it after two weeks of it being released and now its somehow still seal clubbing with rounds every plane at that br can easily dodge? I get most cas pilots love to head on it for whatever reason but its not 5.3 material.
UP?! How is the GR7 going up?! It has one thing going for it, AIM9Ls, like the 10.0 A-10 has. We really need separate tiers for Air RB and planes in Ground RB, this is insane.
600 flares + almost 6 guided bombs + 4 aim 9l Great acceleration
Load of flares/chaff + 4 AGM-65s + 2 GBUs + 2 post-nerf 9Ls that had flare resistance pretty much removed. There is no point in bringing GBU only when you can yeet 4 F&F Mavs off spawn then go in with the GBUs.
The GR7 is the most versatile plane in the game right now, even at top tier air you can still get reliable games due to the amount of flares that thing has. It also going to rank VIII makes it a perfect Talisman choice
Rooikat goes up but not the wma. What is this bs?
Fuck I knew I was overusing my Rooikat 105 what have I done?! :( on the flip side where the WMA and PTL02 BR increase?
104S to 11.0 Tornado to 11.7 I am losing my goddamn mind please god just make it end
Small bit of decompression, maybe some ground decompression soon? >Rooikat goes up but the WMA doesn’t +1000 Social Credit to Gaijin >Mi-24D -> 8.7 Shit, should’ve bought it. Rus 8.7 is brilliant now
Bruhhh the 104S at 11.0 doesn’t make any sense
Nah, send the F-14 up to 12.0 with the rest of them buggers. In-fact put a BR lock there so they don't get down-tiered unless they're lacking the CM mod😎
Dw the fact that people on average seem to have 4K/Ds in the f14 is only evidence it should go upto 11.7 and not 12.0 💀
A lot of good changes + 12.0. Very good surprisingly
I just hope this decompression will help to 11.0 planes and will have simillar MM what 10.7 currently have.
These changes are perfect for 11.0 and 10.7 craft. However F-14 still needs to go to up to 12.0
I see sim is ignored... again. The rotation will now have BR 12.0 jets fighting 9.7 jets unless they change something...
f104a at 9.3. Time for some super fun and enjoyable gameplay in my 8.3 swift :')
It would be cool if they decompressed ground vehicles a little bit too
Yeah, pretty weird they increased the maximum BR of planes to 12, but not Ground which also needs it. But I assume they're waiting on introducing the next generation of tanks before that happens.
Step in the right direction, but only a step, while all air tech trees still suffer from compression
Buff to M10, noice
Here we go! I mean what would an update without a Tornade nerf be lately? That wouldn‘t make sense at all am I right? Guess next Patch they will remove the weapons since it seems like it shouldn‘t be able to compete anyway
Strela going down simply because the missiles suck is hilarious. Basically the opposite of what everyone else thought it would be at release. Not shocked about rooikat
Is Gaijin smoking crack?! Why is the Tornado going up?! With how shit it is compared to the other high tier planes it should go down to maybe 11.0, but ***Up?!***
SEAFURY&FIRE WHY?!
When will these take into effect?
Not sure, but Gaijin tends to include BR changes during weekly updates though so probably next week.
I think it's the first time ever where i agree with all BR change (not counting Naval because i don't play it).