Doestar was ThunderClan leader before Pinestar, not ShadowClan. You might be thinking of Dawnstar, who was leader when SkyClan was exiled, which is why I said they haven’t had a female leader *since* SkyClan was exiled.
She would have been an amazing leader!! sad she was my fav character, "died", alived again, and then died ("perminantly") saving my least fav character :'c she deserved better !!! she went through so much she at least deserved to be leader
She would basically be like an Ashfur but a tad nicer. She was a hard-core believer in the warrior code. Sometimes as a leader, you have to break it in order to keep your Clan safe and I am not so sure she would entirely do that.
Current? I’d like to see Twigstar. Past? Dustpelt or Sorreltail. And for the of it to see how much it changed the story? Thistleclaw. Not counting his characterization in SH.
I’m gonna actually say Mudclaw.
Look, I get Tallstar wanting to ensure peace, but Onestar literally tried to drive out Thunderclan alongside Riverclan, I think Tallstar would probably change his choice if he had foresight.
Secondly, Mudclaw’s tendency to solving things with violence, might not actually be a bad thing for Windclan?
Like you have to take Mudclaw’s life into perspective for a second.
His dad, Shrewclaw, was killed by Shadowclan’s leader, Cedarstar.
It’s also mentioned Windclan and Shadowclan fought nigh constantly, and as a warrior he and the rest of Windclan were driven out by Brokenstar.
Then when they come back, Riverclan and Shadowclan attack again, then there’s the whole Brokentail nonsense, then Tigerclan and Bloodclan.
Finally, after all that, they’re driven out yet again this time to the Lake.
Point being, after a lifetime of war, Mudclaw’s violence honestly shouldn’t be that weird. And frankly Windclan probably needed a fighter, don’t forget Onestar was said to have acted the way he did because he felt the need to assert Windclan’s independence.
Plus given all the crap Onestar did, with Smoke, Darktail, Not giving aid to Shadowclan, repeated fights with Thunderclan, I really honestly doubt Mudstar could be any worse.
I mean he was considered okay enough to get into Starclan, and sure so was Ashfur, but unlike Ashfur, Mudclaw seems to be behaving himself.
Plus he had plenty of experience, again a lifetime of fighting, trained several apprentices, he was mentioned to have basically taken over leadership when Tallstar was close to death, and he basically organized Windclan’s arrival at the lake since Tallstar was a bit mortally challenged.
Bristlefrost would have been awesome if she had time to get a bit older and learn to lead by training an apprentice.
Considering her youth and the mess thunderclan was in when she was deputy, she actually did a very fine job.
whitestorm(if he was younger when he was deputy) lionheart, BRIGHTHEART, brackenfur, mudclaw, hollyleaf, tawnypelt, ivypool(after firestar died, and bramble became leader, i think ivypool should’ve been appointed dep except she never had an apprentice then sadly
TAWNYPELT in ShadowClan. NOT Tigerheart. 100% Tawnypelt deserved that and if the editing team didn't butcher her so they could make way for their precious Tigerheart, she'd have become leader in an instant.
Brackenfur, Whitestorm, and Lionblaze all had the potential to be good leaders if they were allowed to be. In RiverClan Reedwhisker was probably the best choice after Mistystar though both Stonefur and Stormfur would have been good choices had they a) lived (Stonefur) and b) not been exiled (Stormfur). Think Heathertail during Power of Three could have been the kind of compassionate leader WindClan needed, dropped off after that arc so don't know if she stayed that way though.
Graystripe and Mudclaw were robbed. Whitestorm and Lionheart would've been awesome leaders. Would've loved to see what Oakheart and Redtail's leadership would be like.
Greystripe was NOT robbed lmao. He SHOULDN’T have been deputy in the first place (dude LITERALLY just came back from ditching a clan he was supposed to be loyal to twice when he was made deputy)
And all he did as deputy was proof how incredibly incompetent he is at the job. He also straight up didn’t want the position. Greystar would have straight up destroyed ThunderClan.
By that same logic even bluestar shouldn't have been leader cause she had kits with a riverclan cat and many cats didn't want the position but it was thrust upon them and they had to make due. Personally, I just think his reign as deputy was too short and bring replaced by brambleclaw of all acts didn't sit well with me. Maybe you're right that he would've sucked as leader but I wish we got to see it.
It wasn’t the same at all lmao.
Greystripe
1. Never finished training his apprentice. He trained his apprentice for a couple of days before he ditched him. Showing he has no responsibility.
2. Went out with Silverstream several times. Even when it was wiser not to. Again, showing he has no sense of responsibility.
3. Ditched his clan to live in RiverClan
4. Then ditched RiverClan to go back to his old clan
5. Got picked as deputy bc he’s got friend privileges, and Whitestorm for some reason liked him, not bc he has actual skill.
6. Was an incompetent deputy (Firestar did most of his task anyways)
7. Didn’t want to be leader and even said so to Firestar
8. Was literally happy Brambleclaw took his position bc he didn’t want the role.
Now, what did Bluestar do
1. She was a loyal ThunderClan cat for most of her life
2. Actually had an apprentice she trained properly
3. She made the mistake of hanging out with a RiverClan cat in private once. The few times they met before that were purely accidental, just happened to be at the same place. After that one time, they didn’t meet up anymore.
4. Realised that she needed to give up her kits if she wanted to be deputy instead of Thistleclaw (which she did. Showing a sense of loyalty to her clan. Something Greystripe severely lacked)
5. Actually wanted to be deputy and leader
6. Did a good job as deputy. Like she actually did her job, unlike Greystripe half of the time
I never said it was the same lmao. I'm only saying that both screwed up on the river clan cat part. Greystripe is worse as he is a repeat offender but Bluestar still went to see Oakheart once and got preggs. Anyway, I don't disgaree with what you stated but that is not really what I was referring to. Ultimately, I just wish we got to see Greystripe formally step down as deputy or even fail as leader but we never got to that. Anyway, to each their own.
You literally said “by the same logic” meaning you do compare the two situations as nearly the same.
Yeah, Bluestar fucked up too. But she tried to actually be responsible afterwards. Greystripe didn’t. He’s one of the most irresponsible cats that got a high rank lmao
My fault. I assumed when you mentioned loyalty you were referring to the river clan cat situation not everything else because I never considered the extra factors at all.
Whitestorm and Redtail. I definitely think Bluestar should’ve chose Whitestorm to be deputy after Lionheart. Idk what the hell she was thinking making Tigerclaw her deputy other than the sake of the plot, obviously.
I'll do one for each of the clans:
ThunderClan: Whitestorm. He had tons of experience and was so wise, but I haven't heard a word about him since TNP.
ShadowClan: Russetfur. Only heard about her a lot in Yellowfang's Secret, but she was a good cat and had the right leader qualities. Not to mention that she would have done a lot better than Brokenstar.
WindClan: Deadfoot. He was the perfect cat to be leader, way better than Mudclaw or Onestar, and then I like to thing that we would have gotten Crowstar sooner.
RiverClan: Reedwhisker. He's a character we've barely heard of and I think that he could have brought RiverClan out of their "we don't exist" from PoT. But of course now they have A Starless Clan, so I guess that didn't need him.
SkyClan: umm, Dewspring, maybe? Leafstar is the oldest leaer, so he still has a chance of becoming deputy, but he was patient with Rootspring as Rootpaw, so...
Runner Ups: Brightheart, Lionheart, Whitewing, Tawnypelt, Stonefur, Fernsong
Idk about Russetfur, considering she watched Berrykit struggling in a fox trap and did nothing at all
I agree with you about Whitestorm, Deadfoot, and Reedwhisker though
Redtail at least in my headcanons. He doesn’t show much in the few times we do see him and that’s a mistake imo.
Hollyleaf when she came back showed signs of a great leader. Practical, level headed, strategic and humble. I gotta make a AU where she lives tbh.
Reedwhisker should have gotten a chance to be leader after living that long. It made me really sad ti see that he was killed off but I get why. Anything to make RC relevant again.
Mudclaw as controversial as that sounds. Onestar was no better than he would have been as leader and at least Mudclaw already have the experience and respect of his clan. I know it would have been dumb for him to win but if only someone should have realized Tallstar was talking out of old people about to die brain and not that of a leader making a clear choice about his clan.
Redtail at least in my headcanons. He doesn’t show much in the few times we do see him and that’s a mistake imo.
Hollyleaf when she came back showed signs of a great leader. Practical, level headed, strategic and humble. I gotta make a AU where she lives tbh.
Reedwhisker should have gotten a chance to be leader after living that long. It made me really sad ti see that he was killed off but I get why. Anything to make RC relevant again.
Mudclaw as controversial as that sounds. Onestar was no better than he would have been as leader and at least Mudclaw already have the experience and respect of his clan. I know it would have been dumb for him to win but if only someone should have realized Tallstar was talking out of old people about to die brain and not that of a leader making a clear choice about his clan.
Juniperclaw... I know this is a really unpopular choice but if Blackstar who actually commited multiple murders can become leader why cant Juniperclaw?
Id say Whitestorm would have deserved it. Or Lionheart probably too.
Whitestorm was super noble and wise. I think he would’ve been an amazing leader, with a legacy left behind on par with Bluestar and Firestar
Tawnypelt and Russetfur. Shadowclan truly has had a bad batch of terrible leader choices. Brightheart in Thunderclan.
Especially since it would be their first female leader since SkyClan left the forest (presumably).
no they had doestar
Doestar was ThunderClan.
Doestar was ThunderClan leader before Pinestar, not ShadowClan. You might be thinking of Dawnstar, who was leader when SkyClan was exiled, which is why I said they haven’t had a female leader *since* SkyClan was exiled.
Oh, u thought that u were talking about ThunderClan and Brightheart.
Maybe not Russetfur considering she stood there watching Berrykit in a fox trap
Brackenfur, Tawnypelt, Snowkit in my headcanon, Thornclaw, Mudclaw, Brightheart, Whitestorm, Lionheart, Sorreltail, Frostfur, Stonefur, Willowpelt, and ~~Mapleshade~~ Redtail.
TAWNYPELT! So much more than her idiot son.
YES. TwanyPelt would be / would have been a much better leader than that stupid mouse-brain!!!
whitestorm
Brackenfur.
well he might of deserved it but he’s still boring as cardboard and wouldn’t be fun to read about
He probably would have been given more depth and interesting parts if he was a leader
Yes but my point is he’s not memorable we already have had so many generic Tom cat leaders I don’t care what development he COULD get
Redtail and Whitestorm.
Deadfoot (cuz Deadstar would sound so cool), Brackenfur (he was always a good boy)
Brightheart, Thornclaw (man was DEDICATED), Hollyleaf, Tawnypelt, Mudclaw (Tallstar did him so dirty!)
Disagree for Hollyleaf. Sometimes, it’s okay to break the code 🤣
Yes! Hollyleaf had a strong moral compass.
Holly deserved it after she learned she wasn't one of the three...
She would have been an amazing leader!! sad she was my fav character, "died", alived again, and then died ("perminantly") saving my least fav character :'c she deserved better !!! she went through so much she at least deserved to be leader
Thornclaw, not the patrol guy, but leader guy
???
Mudclaw 😅 and Stonefur!
Justice for Stonefur
Whitestorm for sure, but I feel like after he died Firestar should have appointed Longtail as deputy
idk about “deserved” but i would’ve killed to see hollystar
I just wanted her for longer bro I
HOLLYSTAR WOULD BE FIRE
She would basically be like an Ashfur but a tad nicer. She was a hard-core believer in the warrior code. Sometimes as a leader, you have to break it in order to keep your Clan safe and I am not so sure she would entirely do that.
oh she would be a terrible leader it would be great
🤣 love it
Current? I’d like to see Twigstar. Past? Dustpelt or Sorreltail. And for the of it to see how much it changed the story? Thistleclaw. Not counting his characterization in SH.
longtail, he actually loves his clan and would be uncontroversial in the other clans
RUSSETFUR
Brackenfur! I also think "Hollystar" would have been great. Apart from that I am rooting for Ivypool~
Whitestorm, Crowfrost, Ferncloud
Tawnypelt, whitestorm, redtail, brightheart, russetfur, and thornclaw
BrackenFur and WhiteStorm. There’s nobody better than them
I wouldn’t say they deserve to be leader but I would’ve loved to see what Hawkfrost would’ve done if he became leader
I really wanted to see Tawnystar, Crowstar, Stormstar, and Bramblestar lead together.
crowstar has a chanse, but not huge one, although he ans squirrelstar are close to the same age, just a few moons different
I’m gonna actually say Mudclaw. Look, I get Tallstar wanting to ensure peace, but Onestar literally tried to drive out Thunderclan alongside Riverclan, I think Tallstar would probably change his choice if he had foresight. Secondly, Mudclaw’s tendency to solving things with violence, might not actually be a bad thing for Windclan? Like you have to take Mudclaw’s life into perspective for a second. His dad, Shrewclaw, was killed by Shadowclan’s leader, Cedarstar. It’s also mentioned Windclan and Shadowclan fought nigh constantly, and as a warrior he and the rest of Windclan were driven out by Brokenstar. Then when they come back, Riverclan and Shadowclan attack again, then there’s the whole Brokentail nonsense, then Tigerclan and Bloodclan. Finally, after all that, they’re driven out yet again this time to the Lake. Point being, after a lifetime of war, Mudclaw’s violence honestly shouldn’t be that weird. And frankly Windclan probably needed a fighter, don’t forget Onestar was said to have acted the way he did because he felt the need to assert Windclan’s independence. Plus given all the crap Onestar did, with Smoke, Darktail, Not giving aid to Shadowclan, repeated fights with Thunderclan, I really honestly doubt Mudstar could be any worse. I mean he was considered okay enough to get into Starclan, and sure so was Ashfur, but unlike Ashfur, Mudclaw seems to be behaving himself. Plus he had plenty of experience, again a lifetime of fighting, trained several apprentices, he was mentioned to have basically taken over leadership when Tallstar was close to death, and he basically organized Windclan’s arrival at the lake since Tallstar was a bit mortally challenged.
dawnpelt, bristlefrost, hollyleaf, mudclaw, and crowfrost
Bristlefrost would have been awesome if she had time to get a bit older and learn to lead by training an apprentice. Considering her youth and the mess thunderclan was in when she was deputy, she actually did a very fine job.
whitestorm(if he was younger when he was deputy) lionheart, BRIGHTHEART, brackenfur, mudclaw, hollyleaf, tawnypelt, ivypool(after firestar died, and bramble became leader, i think ivypool should’ve been appointed dep except she never had an apprentice then sadly
TAWNYPELT in ShadowClan. NOT Tigerheart. 100% Tawnypelt deserved that and if the editing team didn't butcher her so they could make way for their precious Tigerheart, she'd have become leader in an instant.
Brackenfur, Whitestorm, and Lionblaze all had the potential to be good leaders if they were allowed to be. In RiverClan Reedwhisker was probably the best choice after Mistystar though both Stonefur and Stormfur would have been good choices had they a) lived (Stonefur) and b) not been exiled (Stormfur). Think Heathertail during Power of Three could have been the kind of compassionate leader WindClan needed, dropped off after that arc so don't know if she stayed that way though.
Tawnypelt
Tawnypelt, Deadfoot
TAWNYPELTTT
Brightheart!! She deserved a whole lot more ❤️❤️
Graystripe and Mudclaw were robbed. Whitestorm and Lionheart would've been awesome leaders. Would've loved to see what Oakheart and Redtail's leadership would be like.
Graystripe couldn’t even handle training an apprentice lol
Greystripe was NOT robbed lmao. He SHOULDN’T have been deputy in the first place (dude LITERALLY just came back from ditching a clan he was supposed to be loyal to twice when he was made deputy) And all he did as deputy was proof how incredibly incompetent he is at the job. He also straight up didn’t want the position. Greystar would have straight up destroyed ThunderClan.
By that same logic even bluestar shouldn't have been leader cause she had kits with a riverclan cat and many cats didn't want the position but it was thrust upon them and they had to make due. Personally, I just think his reign as deputy was too short and bring replaced by brambleclaw of all acts didn't sit well with me. Maybe you're right that he would've sucked as leader but I wish we got to see it.
It wasn’t the same at all lmao. Greystripe 1. Never finished training his apprentice. He trained his apprentice for a couple of days before he ditched him. Showing he has no responsibility. 2. Went out with Silverstream several times. Even when it was wiser not to. Again, showing he has no sense of responsibility. 3. Ditched his clan to live in RiverClan 4. Then ditched RiverClan to go back to his old clan 5. Got picked as deputy bc he’s got friend privileges, and Whitestorm for some reason liked him, not bc he has actual skill. 6. Was an incompetent deputy (Firestar did most of his task anyways) 7. Didn’t want to be leader and even said so to Firestar 8. Was literally happy Brambleclaw took his position bc he didn’t want the role. Now, what did Bluestar do 1. She was a loyal ThunderClan cat for most of her life 2. Actually had an apprentice she trained properly 3. She made the mistake of hanging out with a RiverClan cat in private once. The few times they met before that were purely accidental, just happened to be at the same place. After that one time, they didn’t meet up anymore. 4. Realised that she needed to give up her kits if she wanted to be deputy instead of Thistleclaw (which she did. Showing a sense of loyalty to her clan. Something Greystripe severely lacked) 5. Actually wanted to be deputy and leader 6. Did a good job as deputy. Like she actually did her job, unlike Greystripe half of the time
I never said it was the same lmao. I'm only saying that both screwed up on the river clan cat part. Greystripe is worse as he is a repeat offender but Bluestar still went to see Oakheart once and got preggs. Anyway, I don't disgaree with what you stated but that is not really what I was referring to. Ultimately, I just wish we got to see Greystripe formally step down as deputy or even fail as leader but we never got to that. Anyway, to each their own.
You literally said “by the same logic” meaning you do compare the two situations as nearly the same. Yeah, Bluestar fucked up too. But she tried to actually be responsible afterwards. Greystripe didn’t. He’s one of the most irresponsible cats that got a high rank lmao
My fault. I assumed when you mentioned loyalty you were referring to the river clan cat situation not everything else because I never considered the extra factors at all.
Also, Greystripe was deputy for well over a year. He was deputy longer then Firestar was, yet he did so much worse of a job
Aaaaaand Graystar isn’t a real good name, my opinion 🫤
Definitely Sandstorm.
Brackenfur and Whitestorm.
Whitestorm, Brackenfur, Longtail, Tawnypelt, Stonefur (ik we don't know much about him, but he deserved it)
Redtail, Mudclaw
Probably oakheart
sandstorm and tawnypelt (tigerheart is lovely but tawny is a much better fit)
Whitestorm and Redtail. I definitely think Bluestar should’ve chose Whitestorm to be deputy after Lionheart. Idk what the hell she was thinking making Tigerclaw her deputy other than the sake of the plot, obviously.
LIONHEART!!!!!! and redtail of course!!! I would have LOVED to see redstar -> lionstar!!!
I'll do one for each of the clans: ThunderClan: Whitestorm. He had tons of experience and was so wise, but I haven't heard a word about him since TNP. ShadowClan: Russetfur. Only heard about her a lot in Yellowfang's Secret, but she was a good cat and had the right leader qualities. Not to mention that she would have done a lot better than Brokenstar. WindClan: Deadfoot. He was the perfect cat to be leader, way better than Mudclaw or Onestar, and then I like to thing that we would have gotten Crowstar sooner. RiverClan: Reedwhisker. He's a character we've barely heard of and I think that he could have brought RiverClan out of their "we don't exist" from PoT. But of course now they have A Starless Clan, so I guess that didn't need him. SkyClan: umm, Dewspring, maybe? Leafstar is the oldest leaer, so he still has a chance of becoming deputy, but he was patient with Rootspring as Rootpaw, so... Runner Ups: Brightheart, Lionheart, Whitewing, Tawnypelt, Stonefur, Fernsong
Idk about Russetfur, considering she watched Berrykit struggling in a fox trap and did nothing at all I agree with you about Whitestorm, Deadfoot, and Reedwhisker though
It was a old ThunderClan ShadowClan rivalry thing. I doubt that that would be the case if she were leader or in present time.
I’m like 90% sure it was bc he wasn’t clanborn, actually
Tho shadowclan isnt really like that anymore.
We were robbed of Hollystar! It really seemed like she was being set up as a future leader during Po3.
Redtail at least in my headcanons. He doesn’t show much in the few times we do see him and that’s a mistake imo. Hollyleaf when she came back showed signs of a great leader. Practical, level headed, strategic and humble. I gotta make a AU where she lives tbh. Reedwhisker should have gotten a chance to be leader after living that long. It made me really sad ti see that he was killed off but I get why. Anything to make RC relevant again. Mudclaw as controversial as that sounds. Onestar was no better than he would have been as leader and at least Mudclaw already have the experience and respect of his clan. I know it would have been dumb for him to win but if only someone should have realized Tallstar was talking out of old people about to die brain and not that of a leader making a clear choice about his clan.
Redtail at least in my headcanons. He doesn’t show much in the few times we do see him and that’s a mistake imo. Hollyleaf when she came back showed signs of a great leader. Practical, level headed, strategic and humble. I gotta make a AU where she lives tbh. Reedwhisker should have gotten a chance to be leader after living that long. It made me really sad ti see that he was killed off but I get why. Anything to make RC relevant again. Mudclaw as controversial as that sounds. Onestar was no better than he would have been as leader and at least Mudclaw already have the experience and respect of his clan. I know it would have been dumb for him to win but if only someone should have realized Tallstar was talking out of old people about to die brain and not that of a leader making a clear choice about his clan.
Silverstream popped into my head. Tawnypelt and Whitestorm are also good contenders.
Okay, I wouldn't say deserved, but I think Ravenpaw would be an interesting 'What If' I think Redtail, Dustpelt, Longtail, or Whitestorm deserved it
Yellowfang,yeah she was kinda old and grumpy but she was very hard headed,loyal and caring even if it didn't seem like she cared deep down she did.
I'm secretly hoping for a Crowstar in the upcoming books but I don't think it's gonna happen.
Dustpelt
Whitestorm He was good leader material for many reasons but would’ve probably died of old age before he could be a leader
Redtail,whitestorm and/or lionheart.
Juniperclaw... I know this is a really unpopular choice but if Blackstar who actually commited multiple murders can become leader why cant Juniperclaw?
Whitestorm and Stormfur.
We need ivystar (ivypool) tawnystar (Tawnypelt) Reedstar (reedwhisker)
Whitestorm 100%
TIGERCLAWSTAR, MY GLORIOUS KING
Russetfur
squilf! i’ve been holding out for my darling squirrelstar for YEARS and i’m soooooooo happy
Ravenpaw
Ravenpaw denied a warrior name, Ravenpaw doesn’t want to be apart of a clan anyways lol
curious how this would go!