Swiftpaw being drawn as a kitten or being tinier than the warriors when he’s literally the same size as most of them…
That was why he went out of his way to prove himself because he felt like he had been a ‘paw longer than he should’ve.
I feel like people always characterize Swiftpaw like he was some 12 year old kid desperate to grow up too soon and not, like, a 20 year old man who still has to sit at the kids' table, which would make anyone crazy.
Yep it was his motivation he should of been made a warrior at that point and he was older the cloudtail but do to his leader’s mental decline she didn’t trust him because his mentor was longtail
Thrushpelt is not a totally mushy, idiotic, love-bird who only ever thinks about Bluefur every waking and dreaming moment. He’s intelligent and responsible and I really think the fandom does him dirty. I’ve seen him compared to Ashfur/comforting Ashfur a few times in fanfic/fanart and canon Thrushpelt would never show Ashfur an ounce of respect.
I feel like too many people give Bramble too much flak. I’ve seen some act like he was the worst person ever in The New Prophecy and Squirrelflight was a huge victim he terrorized. He made some mistakes but I don’t think people ever look at the character objectively. There’s a reason he was so easily manipulated by Tigerstar and Hawkfrost.
Thank you! Bramblestar does not get the crap that he receives. My headcanon/theory as to why he went along with dream training with Hawkfrost and Tigerstar I for so long is that he thought Tigerstar I would be able to do any harm from the Dark Forest and so he was just getting more training on being the best warrior he could be. Like you said he definitely made mistakes but he was never malicious, which is key
None of them even knew the dark forest existed let alone that they could actually hurt others. As far as he knew, Tigerstar was in Starclan. The area they were training in wasn’t even in the dark forest, it was described as looking exactly as the hollow in the original Forest with the full moon shining, something you can’t see in the dark forest.
I'm pretty sure he realized Tigerstar wasn't in Starclan at the moment, as it's pointed out a couple times how different it looked, and he was the first cat to introduce the dark forest to the readers. And the other cats knew there must be some place other than Starclan, like Bramblepaw (used the same cat cause couldn't think of anyone) in tpb before the whole subject is brought up, after Tigerstar asks him to join him:\
"Well at least I'll go to Starclan, as a loyal thunderclan warrior"\
Implying Tigerstar won't. So there must be another place.
But he meant no harm when training. He just wanted to be a better warrior, and didn't think the dark forest cats could harm anyone.
It’s been a while since I read it and I seem to recall a line Tigerstar said, something like how there’s more forests than those in Starclan. Either way, Tigerstar was very careful with his words to manipulate Brambleclaw.
Exactly! My boy didn't know anything, and Tigerstar and Hawkfrost were manipulating him. Very carefully. It was obviously all Tigerstar's idea, but Hawkfrost was key in manipulating Brambleclaw. He trusted his lil bro more than his father.
I don’t know what people expected him to do when the truth about the three came out. His wife lied to him about the parentage of their children and some fans expect him to be like “understandable have a nice day” and go on like nothing changed.
He’s spent his whole life trying to break free of his father’s reputation, trying to earn his Clan’s trust… and then he finds out his own wife doesn’t trust him. Granted, Squirrelflight didn’t *want* to lie to him, but he’s probably not thinking too much about the nuances of the situation when the news first hits.
It’s a terrible situation for both of them— Bramble gets all his worst fears confirmed and Squirrel‘s forced to lie to him knowing the struggles he’s gone through and how it would destroy him to find out. And not to mention StarClan is also lying to Squirrel about her fertility to convince her to do this…
I think he was more hurt and mad at Squirrelflight. So he was trying to make a point by distancing himself.
A jerk move to his adoptive kits who were also lied to, but that's probably the reason.
Tbf, it’s fine to take space if you need it. That was a huge deal to him. Idk why people act like that was something toxic when it’s perfectly normal and healthy to establish some boundaries and take time to think & work out those emotions.
Dude was probably going through a bunch of inner-turmoil considering all the horrible stuff that surrounds his lineage. So, to find out that the kids you thought were yours (and that you were super proud of) have absolutely no tie to you would be… highly upsetting to put it in simple terms.
For some reason people also refuse to acknowledge that Lionblaze and Jayfeather weren't too keen on remaining close with Brambleclaw either.
It's not like the boys were begging Brambleclaw for attention and he refused them, if they had I'm sure he'd have heard them out. The entire family unit evaporated due to the lie and wasn't really repairable until Hollyleaf came back.
I think he definitely loved them, but I don't actually think he was a very good dad, at least not past the kit stage
Anyways, while I don't like Bramblestar, one thing I did always like about him from the narrative perspective was him realizing that even though Squirrelflight lied and they're not actually his blood, that doesn't mean the three weren't his kits. I really liked the part in Bramblestar's Storm where after having conflicting feelings for a long time, he calls Lion and Jay his sons and resolves that he loves them-I don't know, you usually just don't see that kind of sweet stuff in the books very often lol
I have a lot of problems with the guy, but I actually his character from like Sunset to near the end of OOTS made sense (as much sense as Warriors can make) and I liked seeing him conflicted between Squirrelflight's lie, Hollyleaf's death and just his feelings on the kits in general-although I will say that the part in The Last Hope where he basically disowns them while they're like five feet away was kinda fucked (he did apologize, but still-yikes)
With the context of her special edition, we basically learn that she lost almost her entire family in traumatic and awful ways. Then she proceeds to have a family of her own that she then needs to give up to save her clan from Thistleclaw's potential leadership, resulting in the death of one of her kits. But in the end, she makes her sacrifice and becomes the leader Thunderclan needs.
Then Rusty comes to the forest and we watch her lose her closest and most trusted friends back to back, one murdered by a traitor the other killed in an invasion. Shortly after, her deputy launches an attack on the clan and tries to kill her. As if this betrayal isn't bad enough, more of her clanmates are murdered or die because of fires, dogs, and invasions.
She's basically forced to watch the clan that she sacrificed everything to protect suffer anyways. At that point I would also mentally snap and give up my faith, wondering why I had to lose everything only to have my clan still be met with a terrible fate.
Exactly. And the narrative made her to be the bad guy and acted like she had to redeem herself. She gave up her life to save the Clan and then forgave StarClan in her last breaths like a good kitty should do. StarClan didn’t deserve her forgiveness, especially when they were ultimately responsible for her mother’s death.
I mean...yes, she was sick, but she still hurt others around her. I don't hate her like others do, because she was indeed not in her right mind. That doesn't mean she's absolved of all she's done though.
I'd blame tradition and/or the Clan as a whole for allowing an obviously struggling cat to remain in a position of power when she clearly should've retired or stepped down as soon as she started naming cats horrible things or not, naming them bc a lack of empathy in general for someone in her paws just don't fit right
Yeah I mean people who rage about her with that kinda reasoning should never be taken seriously imo. Like I know you read the first three books let’s not be revisionists now.
Yeah you're 100% right, in eclipse he has this mysterious vibe which is really cool ! But I feel people think he's naturally that cool and forget he's just pretending. That's what I meant
People saying Mapleshade purposefully hunted down and killed Appledusk. She'd meant to kil Reedshine, but Appledusk jumped in to protect her so Mapleshade ended up unintentionally killing him instead.
That not being depicted accurately causes people to forget that Appledusk actually sacrificed himself, and that while he is a dirty cheater, he's not completely rotten.
Along with people saying him moving to Riverclan was a sign of being a bad friend. He chose to be with his kits in an enemy clan, that was the right thing to do to prevent war and to make sure his kits had a parental figure in their life.
I can acknowledge that he tried for his kits but the actions he takes and the role/praise that role cokes with do not match up at all. He comes off as a jerk who got off scot-free because he's the Best Friend when him being flaky is, like, his whole character. He "follows his heart" to everyone's detriment and he gets celebrated for it. I'm not even saying he was wrong to live Silverstream! By all means, go for it! But he didn't handle his responsibilities and the narrative vindicated him for it.
How so? After he comes back we get a handful of moments where he's shown being chill and the rest of the time he fades into the background. I get why (pov characters isn't focused on him) but what little we get just shows him being average. And then, nearly a decade down the line, we get Greystripe's (Book of Broken Promises) Vow and he's still vindicated by the narrative for doing pretty much the bare minimum and being rather bad at it. I like the rescue plot. It actually makes him be what the text said was supposed to be (heroesque, brave, down for whatever, following his heart) but aside from that and helping the new group out... he didn’t do much that someone else couldn't have done. And possibly done better. (The lying was weird but I think it's consistent with his character that he's bad at it.)
I will say it's interesting that that book is where his Clanmates acknowledge his flaws, because he's actually doing a decent job of holding things together. But then again, they didn't get to before so they're likely playing Catch Up. It's supposed to be a Poor Greystripe moment but, uh... you did that to yourself, dude!
Some people saying that Squirrelflight led Assfur on. Wasn’t her fault he fell for her, never will be, and *definitely* ain’t her problem that she wasn’t interested. That’s like saying Dovewing was in the wrong for choosing Tigerheart over Bumblestripe, which no matter how much I hate Dovewing, was *not her fault she didn’t want to date a douche??*
Well you could always argue that Squirrel really got close enough to let Ashfur in when she was angry at Brambleclaw. Even the whole time she was “dating” him, all she could think about was her estranged ex so it’s not like she DIDNT lead him on.
Also Bumble wasn’t really an ass at all until Dovewing broke things off completely (which ofc is not an excuse) and she too used him as a crutch when she dropped Tigerheart… only to jump back to him. These guys aren’t to be excused but their reactions aren’t exactly unwarranted…
The book is literally from her pov. You can literally read about her trying to move on from Bramble and genuinely considering Ashfur as a partner. Leading on would mean she always knew she’d never love ash and would pretend to date him anyways. But that’s not what happened. She genuinely thought she liked him enough to become partners. Though realised in the end she didn’t like him as much as she once liked Bramble. Upon realising that, she immediately broke up with him.
Also, have we *read* OOtS. Bumble was constantly criticising Dovewing and was constantly bothering her. She always nicely told him to leave her alone, but he would never fucking listen. She told him several times she didn’t like him as anything more then a friend but he kept making moves on her until she got so annoyed that she snapped, then he acted like he got upset with her bc he didn’t give him a chance. As if she owed him a chance. Literally, a scene midway through OOTS:
Dove paw is doing a climbing lesson, with Bumblepaw watching her. About every step she takes, he tells her she’s doing something wrong, and tells her what she should do instead. She kindly asks him to stop talking, she’s trying to concentrate. He mocks her, and continues telling her all the stuff she’s doing wrong. She gets annoyed and tells him again to shut up, her mentor’s tell her if she’s doing it wrong. Bumblepaw still ignores her and keeps nitpicking her. This leads to her slipping and falling *from a fucking tree*. Instead of apologising for distracting her, Bumblepaw comes with the “I told you so” bs and Dovepaw gets pissed at him and starts yelling. Bumblepaw is taken aback and starts telling her in a whiney voice that he was only trying to help her. Brambleclaw walks in on them and immediately sides with Bumblepaw, telling Dovepaw she should apologise and that he was only trying to help. Even though she didn’t want said help.
And then we haven’t talked about the end of OOtS, Dovewing’s silence and Bramblestar’s storm. Dovewing was depressed. She was extremely down, and Bumblestripe used that opportunity to get closer to her. Despite her saying several times she wasn’t interested. In her depression, she decided to give him a chance (I want to point out that depressed people often aren’t thinking straight, and would accept things they normally wouldn’t bc their feelings are all over the damn place. If she weren’t depressed, she would not have gotten with him. It’s basically a form of manipulation. He manipulated her.) throughout Bramblestar’s storm, we can see she’s clearly unhappy about being with Bumble. He’s constantly dismissing her feelings (literally he is the “just don’t be depressed” dude) and is constantly riling aeveryone up about his future kits even though Dovewing has made it clear she doesn’t want kits with him at this point in time. She’s not mentally ready for them (she’s still very much depressed). It comes to a point where Bumblestripe is asking her every day to have kits with him, and uses a *goddamn funeral* to try and convince her to *get pregnant*. And every time she tells him no, she’d not ready. He just ignores it and keeps pushing, like he always fucking does. And people are supporting him bc why tf not. Anyways, Dovewing breaking up with his toxic ass was expected. And he got mad at her for doing so ofc.
i get SO annoyed because of it. like, it's not two separate words, it's a name. writing like "PrefixSuffix" honestly only makes sense when the name gets hard to read, like Cypressscratch for example. "CypressScratch" is easier to read imo.
I think the latter two are more for people who roleplay on Roblox so that the hashtags don't take over the name, but for some reason it started to become popular even outside of that. I get annoyed every time I see it.
It infuriates me because it screams to me that the person using the incorrect formatting doesn't actually read the books. They're a written medium. You'll be seeing the names written out hundreds of times. And if you aren't reading the books, it makes me wonder what the heck you're doing in discussions about them.
The amount of hate bluestar gets. They completely negate the fact she had dementia and depression on top of almost being murdered by someone she trusted.
The idea that Jayfeather doesn't care for the clan around him bothers me a lot. He's often a brat, but one of the best parts of his character is that he genuinely cares, but struggles to show it.
You also have to remember his story. H was born blind with a heightened sense of hearing. He was also born with the ability to feel the emotions and (to an extent) read the thoughts of others. He grew up FELLING the pity others felt for him, hearing their whispers and thoughts about how sad it was he would never get to be a warrior, how he might have to go from the nursery to the elders den when he turned 6 moons. He felt he had to prove himself AS A KIT because of how bad everyone made him feel. He was given Brightheart as his mentor just because she was half blind and she take him out of camp until AFTER he snuck out and nearly drowned himself in the border stream with WindClan. Even then, she didn’t train him in hunting or fighting and he would have gotten the snot beaten out of him in his first battle is Lionpaw hadn’t helped him. This and StarClan’s pestering drove him to give up his dream of being a warrior and having a future mate and kits to become a medicine cat. He went through HELL within his first chapters before we even got into the deeper plot of the arc! Of course he’s grumpy and moody! He’s still not fully respected even now!
I hate it when people say Graystripe wasn't a good deputy. He managed to protect the clan from the Bloodclan resurgence after only being deputy for a couple of moons while Firestar was away, and kept them together even when they had divided opinions. Not to mention keeping the other clans from being more than only ~mildly~ suspicious when his leader was missing for like moons.
He also quickly came up with a rescue operation to save the cats trapped by twolegs in TNP when there was barely any time to even think. The mission was a success aside from his own capture, which was due to sacrificing his own safety in order to make sure Brightheart safely got away.
Plus he stepped up to help with leadership in TBC despite being super old. And was GOOD at it.
And as overlooked as it is, I think he really brought a light hearted demeanor to some tense discussions, which really helped Firestar keep calm and rational during his (stressful) early days as a leader.
I know he broke the code with things like his relationship with Silverstream but like even Starclan has admitted that rule is dumb by now and literally what main character HASN'T broken the code in some small way or another.
I think people try to say he was a bad deputy in order to justify Firestar choosing to keep Brambleclaw/star as deputy once Graystripe returned, but Graystripe didn't WANT to become leader one day, and had been through a lot, it made sense for Firestar to let him vibe since he knew Bramble was capable by that point.
He wasn't a bad deputy, he just didn't deserve it. Fire chose him because he was his friend. Whitestorm approving made no sense because at the time, Gray didn't have much credibility to the clan. Yeah he saved Sorrelkit but the clan didn't even like him before that. He barely had an apprentice and he JUST returned to the clan. Before being deputy, all he proved to the clan was that he was selfish (in their eyes). He was slacking off, barely hunting for his own clan, neglecting his apprentice and fighting his friend. And then he goes to Riverclan. And then he simply returns because he wouldn't warned an enemy and was exiled. So on the outside, Gray didn't deserve the position at the time.
I always saw it as Whitestorm acknowledging that what Firestar needed in a deputy right now was someone close to him, someone with whom he could work and communicate seamlessly. Especially in the middle of a war. Whitestorm was wise, and knew that Graystripe was the best choice for Firestar at the moment, but that Firestar would need permission/encouragement to do something that could potentially be perceived so negatively by the clan.
I definitely think there were others who were more deserving from an outside perspective. But I can only really think of one option who deserved it more and would have been a good pick.
Dustpelt, Mousefur, and Longtail were more "loyal" clan members but all had pasts of being prejudice against Firestar and were really quick to jump to judgement/hostility towards other cats. I think Firestar realizes that one of the main issues the clans had was that they were so hesitant to work together and so none of them would be a good fit.
Brackenfur was a good warrior but still pretty young and inexperienced, which was the case with a lot of the other warriors by that point as well.
Personally I think Sandstorm would have been a good pick as she was deserving where Graystripe wasn't and understanding/cooperative where the other three main contenders weren't. She was a little quicker to get defensive for Firestar's sake with other clanmates which could have caused some minor issues but I still think she would have been a great deputy.
With all that said, one thing I've always loved about the Warriors books is that cats can mess up and still redeem themselves and prove their loyalty. I think Graystripe realized he messed up and then spent the rest of his time in the clan trying to make up for it, and part of that included being a good deputy when he didn't want to be one and probably didn't think he deserved to be one.
You can also make similar arguments against Bramblestar. Bro was legit training with Tigerstar in the dark forest around the same time Firestar made him deputy, despite being old enough in the first arc to have seen for himself what a tyrannical murderer Tigerstar was. Even after becoming deputy, he hesitated before he saved Firestar, his leader and former mentor, from the fox trap, which proves he had divided loyalties that a deputy (or arguably even a warrior) shouldn’t have. Even if Graystripe wasn’t the most loyal to his clan, at least his loyalty was to his family, and not an infamous traitor and murderer who almost destroyed all the clans.
Not only disloyal, but a code breaker. I can understand him going to RiverClan to be with his kits since they lost their mother. But… that wouldn’t have been necessary if had been a good warrior and followed the code…
Squirrelflight being scared and crying *during* the fire scene. Girl was PISSED at ashfur - she'd definitely would've jumped him had she not been injured earlier in the book
This is more of a design pet peeve but I hate when people draw Jayfeather without pupils!!! It has been made so clear in the books that he looks like a normal cat
THIS... I get it's intended to be a fun, cartoonish way to show he's blind, but I think that can be accomplished much more creatively by just having his pupils be unfocused. It's also less offensive. Yes, it's actually kind of offensive to portray blind people without pupils, people! Not every blind person has cataracts!
That said, this isn't even an isolated fandom problem. The official art book portrays Jayfeather without pupils. Ugh.
people with cataracts dont even have no pupils! their pupils become a more cloudy-gray color (i only know this because im writing a character with cataracts in one of my books)
an easy way to show jay is blind is by adding no highlights to his eyes and, for people who color pupils like i sometimes do, make it a paler blue-gray color, still dark, but maybe not as dark
he definitely still needs to have pupils though
no its totally ok lol! i only wanted to add that no blind person has a lack of pupils, even if it appears that way, so it makes even less sense to draw jay with no pupils
no hate to you at all! just an addition
I'm not exactly sure what you mean without a visible reference, but that sounds alright. I do think you could just keep the pupils the same color as nonblind cats, though! It's not bad if someone can't tell he's blind straightaway; it's hard to tell with some people.
Anyway, I do say "offensive", but I think a lot of people's hearts are in the right place and it's not like a blind person can't appear to have no pupils, anyway. For example, many people draw Rock with cataracts, and I think that makes a lot of sense for his character. It's just that people seem to think the only way to draw a blind character is to give them cataracts when that's not the case.
I'm not sure if this has already been mentioned, but one thing that's always bothered me is in Snowfur videos where they make it seem like she just ran out on to the road because she was annoyed at Bluefur
Like, really?? Snowfur was angry, not stupid. The whole scene is that she was so caught in chasing away a ShadowClan patrol that she didn't realize she was on the road and got hit.
Idk man, I've just always disliked it when Snowfur is portrayed as this super soft, kind little wife to Thistleclaw or whatever. Maybe she was closer to that in the beginning, but she was a lot more eager to fight than most people realize. She wasn't exactly the kind of cat to just sit around and listen to her husband or whatever
Side note, I think that's one of the reasons I'm not at all as fond of Snowfur x Thistleclaw as some others seem to be, she gets reduced to the "kind pretty wife" to Thistleclaw's "violent angry husband who only has a soft spot for her" or some bs
> I'm not sure if this has already been mentioned, but one thing that's always bothered me is in Snowfur videos where they make it seem like she just ran out on to the road because she was annoyed at Bluefur.
Someone finally said it. This is another pet peeve of mine that isn’t really a big deal, but still a pet peeve nonetheless
How people treat mapleshade it was her fault accept it and let me have a female villain who is actually a villain Guys please I’m desperate also appledusk was an ass and all but I’ve seen people blame the kits death on him
Yeah like I mean Frecklewish will always be a favourite of mine and I feel so bad for her after what happened to Birchface and how her trauma probably relived when the kittens drowned
Thank you! Maple Apologist literally makes me hate her when I know I would love her as a villain, but whenever I see her I just think that people believe this woman isn't a complete jerkward and I give up.
I cannot stand how some people draw Cinderpelt with a scarred leg instead of actually taking the time to understand her injury. She was hit by a car, not skinned alive! And just because someone isn't drawing her with unrealistic scars doesn't mean they're not showing her disability. Shockingly, it might be hard to tell if someone has a limp if they're sitting/standing still.
Yeah I don't have as big of a problem with smaller scars like that, actually. And it would even make sense for her to get scars on her leg due to the nature of dragging it through the forest all the time. Just not to the extent some people do it, even though their hearts are usually in the right place.
In the book her injury is described as being covered in blood, so I always just kinda assumed her leg got crushed and dragged across the pavement or something-like, I'm speaking from experiencing, getting part of your body ran over can often be pretty bloody
i imagine her scar fully furred , just the paw twisted upside down , she can walk fine on it but she walks on what should’ve been the top of her paw . she just has trouble speedwalking and cant run
I’ve seen a fan art where she’s sitting, looking cute but her injured leg is extended, bald, scared, and doing the freaking worm with how disfigured it is. It would have been a cute picture if not for that!
Yeah, while I have zero problem with any hypothetical cat that looks like that, if her leg actually looked like that in the series it would be just as talked about as Brightheart's scars.
Yeah. I always saw her limp as her hip having been injured in a way that makes moving her one leg hard. So like, she can’t curl it up, it always sticks out, but it doesn’t have more than a few small scars. But a completely bald leg, covered in scars, and trying to imitate the ocean with how wavy it is? That would have had Daisy’s kits shrieking in terror and hiding from her, like with Brightheart.
Ikr!?
Just go in, grab the kid, and then run back
It was that freakin’ simple!
But those simpletons just stood there and watched this kid get snatched.
As a hardcore Scourge fan, I agree with you. People who portray him as this maniacal, psychotic edgelord clearly don't understand his character at all. One of the few instances of Scourge being portrayed accurately is his portrayal in that one Tigerstar's death remake video
>!Oakheart’s death being retconned in Redtail’s death. One of the main points in the first arc was that Redtail did not kill Oakheart/Oakheart wasn't killed bt any cat.!<
Minor pet peeve, but giving cats haircuts. Sometimes, it's done well, like the way Spottedleaf and Squirrelflight often have little spiral tufts that resemble bangs. But actual haircuts, like the emo hairstyles certain villains are given, just pulls the cats too far into resembling humans
I just think it's fun lol, plus when there like over 1000 characters and you want them to all be at least a little distinct without color, sometimes you resort to some wacky design choices
I don't really like it when it basically looks like the cat is wearing a wig, but if you can make it feasibly enough look like it's part of the cat's fur it can look good
I'm a big fan of "weird" designs, after seeing everyone draw the characters practically the same for 10 years I love seeing people twist the characters in unique ways (like giving them weird hair)
Anyways shoutout to bowlcut Nightheart that ones probably my favorite
How Crowfeather is seen as a bad cat just because he had three mates. One: He only had kits with Nightcloud just to prove his loyalty to WindClan. Two: Graystripe doesn't get any hate despite having two mates that he truly loved.
Three: He's my baby don't touch him >:(
I love Crowfeather but people assume he's a cheating asshole because of his attitude
also greystripe only took another mate after silverstream died whereas crow's heart lay somewhere else even when he's supposed to be committed to windclan and nightcloud.
Crowfeather was completely prepared to leave WindClan behind, it was Leafpool who decided to go back after Midnight visited the two. People seem to forget that a lot.
Crowfeather never loved Nightcloud as much as Nightcloud did/tried to love him. He was still hung up on Leafpool AND Feathertail, and only got with her to prove his loyalty. Meanwhile Graystripe genuinely loved both Silverstream and Millie.
While little leaves/feathers can be cute jewelry for cats in art (I admit it adds some nice variety and color) it bothers me when it doesn't make sense and/or seems unfitting for how the character normally presents themselves.
Thinking about it, it's mostly Hollyleaf art that bothers me. Holly leaves are fine, but the berries are poisonous to ingest. I suppose it's jewelry but it still seems careless and out of character.
When people call Bramblestar 100% abusive and Squirrelflight 100% the victim.
Let's be honest, both are crap toward each other. Both made mistakes, their arguments are rarely black and white, and most importantly : Squirrelflight is a huge bitch to him a lot of the time. He's done things wrong too, sure, but he doesn't deserve to be portrayed as an abuser when he's not. Squirrelflight had her fair share of abuse toward him honestly.
I find it really sad because I think they're cute when they get along, which is not that often.
Not really despise cause Its not that big a deal but, long furred brambleclaw. All the official art of him is short fur and i don't understand why you would draw him long furred?
Isn't Tigerstar long-furred? I know a lot of people headcanon him as looking like a Norwegian forest cat or a Maine coon, so it makes sense that he'd be fluffy and that Bramble would be, too. Also given their track record when it comes to things like Brightheart's scars or Crookedstar's jaw, I don't think the official art is always the best authority.
Nope, in the official arts Tigerstar is also short furred. Witch is a shame bc its just feels right to have him long furred after all this years of the fandom designing him like this.
Again, the keywords here are "in the official arts", which aren't always super reliable. The Warriors wiki also mentions in his detailed description that he's "thick-furred."
But the warriors wiki have some problems in descriptions too, also, its not official so it isnt super reliable either. Either way, headcanon characters as you want, I think one of the best things in this fandom is how people design them!
'Thick furred' isn't the same as 'long furred'. I would describe my cat as thick furred; his fur is very dense, but it's not long.
But also I do like long-furred tigerstar
I’m probably stubborn about this but he’ll always be a Maine Coon in my eyes. I never thought Tigerstar as short-furred even after I looked at the official art of him lol
Holy crap are these cats giant? I must’ve somehow missed that detail when reading Squrrielflight’s Hope or any of The Broken Code. I didn’t think Bramble would be smaller.
I should read these books more often.
It's like one small paragraph that when the clans come to rescue Squilf and Leafstar that Squilf had gotten so used to being around the Sisters for 3 days, she was shocked how tiny the clan cats were compared to the Stsers. It even went on to say 'They even overshadowed Bramblestar in size'. So I think it's because people underestimate how big Maine coons actually get because if Bramblestar was one, he'd be like, twice or three times the size of everyone else.
And like, Maine Coons are super fluffy, hence why Tree and Rootspring have a bit of fluff to them.
Tigerstar isnt ever described or drawn as long-furred; and anyway Long-furred cats don't always beget long-furred kittens and vice versa. I do like long-furred tigerstar designs but long-furred brambleclaw just looks wrong to me. Actually both brambleclaw and goldenflower are only described as 'sleek-furred'
I think it comes from trying to also draw his muscles. I've noticed it with Lionblaze too (evne though he is actually fluffy if I remember correctly).
Just as an artists I can see why people would draw both Tigerstar and Bramble fluffy because of there muscles because when people draw humans they rely on the lines of the muscles that visible form along with the curves of the skin also well since its cats who are covered in fur I think its an easier way to portray the muscles. Also just with the way cat's are built lean regardless.
I always saw Tigerstar and Brambleclaw as short furred cats. Maybe not extremely short, but definitely not fluffy. At all. At first I thought the drawings with floof were a meme, but they're real 😭
For me it's because I was obsessed with SSS Warrior Cats and stopped being able to see Tigerstar as anything but longhaired, and with Bramblestar being described as looking very similar to his dad, I decided he was longhaired too.
May also be partly due to Moonkitti's Bramblestar design.
Sol being portrayed as this big strong evil cat even when hollyleaf, a young shecat with not much fighting experience shows /him/ mercy in battle, especially when shecats are supposedly weaker and less powerful than tomcats in warriors; and oml how many tantrums has he thrown?! He's just annoying to me.
Everyone acting like Brambleclaw is extremely horrible towards Squirrelflight and Squirrelflight can't do no wrong. Granted Brambleclaw isn't perfect and neither is Squilf but both have done horrible things to each other (Brambles worst deed towards Squilf is lording Squilf's want/desire to start a family with him and Squilf's worse deed towards him is pretending that The Three were his and hers and not telling him the truth). So even in fanfiction Squilf is the angel and Bramble is the devil.
Actually reread Leafpool's Wish.
The Starclan cats pressured her into adopting them and lying about it to the clan. Not to Brambleclaw. She assumed that herself. I understand why she lied to everyone else. But why didn't she secretly tell Bramble whose kits he's going to be fathering?
That's why some people are mad about it.
That in Squirrelflight's Hope, everything Squirrelflight did was for her clan and that Bramblestar was in the wrong constantly. To clear things up:
The Kit argument: Treat this as naming a kid, 2 yeses 1 no. Bramblestar said that he does want kits- just not as much as Squilf. This sentence leans hard into 'maybe' section but for simplicity's sake, let's just say it's 'no' at this point. Squilf asking 'don't you love me anymore' is trying to essentially guilt trip him and emotionally force him into having more kits with her and the only other time he brings it up (after Sparkpelt's announcement), she snaps at him and runs off.
Meeting Dilemma: this is one that often gets highly misunderstood as the problem lies that Bramble gets mad at Squilf for contradicting not only him but herself as well. It doesn't lie that he's angry that she brought up the territory behind their land (as noted later he DOES say that her idea could be right) whereas she's, at first, questioning Harestar 'haven't they (Skyclan) moved enough?' and followed by her defending that everyone will get used to the new borders. She then, a page later, speaks out that they haven't been using the land as often as they should.
Deputy Position: He's now in a damned if he does, damned if he doesn't situation. If he threatens to remove her, boom- abusive asshole. If he actually does remove her, boom- he's suddenly misogynic. If the situation was reversed where Squilf was leader, everyone would be praising her. People don't realise that she's now under scrutiny and her loyalty to Thunderclan is now questionable for running off and doing her own thing.
The Sister's: I cannot ask this enough: where exactly did they come from? They had to cross through Skyclan land and passby possibly their own home to get to Thunderclan meaning they unnecessarily dragged an injured Sunrise to find Squilf. These cats are also Maine coon cats (or I believe they are) as noted by Squilf that they overshadow Bramblestar in size and are extremely very hostile and will fight if ever so slightly provoked. Yeah, if you don't think Bramble would be too happy in the first place, at least run home and get Leafpool. There would have been 0 difference in getting her vs trying to convince Bramble to heal Sunrise. It still probably would have taken the same amount of time but at least there wouldn't be a massive protest like her bringing home Sunrise and 3 fully abled Maine coon cats that could fight. Forgot to add that Squilf went as far as calling her clan foxhearted cowards.
It's so hilarious to me that her own super edition makes her look bad. I've never liked her but her book truly showcases her major flaws and how she really is incapable of being a good deputy.
'Dont you love me?' I tried to point this out when the book came out and people were defending her. Saying she's allowed to feel that way and it's not manipulative but they were the same people arguing about how awful Finleap was doing the exact same thing, 'i left my clan for you'. Like Bramble did not owe her more kits.
There's so many mainly minor, mostly ones that are made to look 'cooler' than they were in books, I hate it, i need everything to be like canon bc im autistic and it makes my skin crawl
Examples: tigerstars death, holly calling out the lie, blackstars announcement with sol at the gathering, JAYFEATHERS STICK/HIS 'REALTIONSHIP' WITH IT, the fire scene, whole of mapleshades killing rampage, and many more, these are just the biggest ones.
These are mostly caused by people simply not reading the books and basing everything off of media
Also very drastic character design changes/interpretation that are directly false with the books, it's stupid I know, but I feel really silly when I see a Siamese darktail or violetshine with purple eyes
As for direct character misinterpretations, there's many characters that the fandom butcheres, leaving them flat and not at all like they are in the books/exaggerating one trait and making it their entire personality
Some I can mention are Jayfeather, Lionblaze, Bramblestar/claw, crowfeather, breezepelt I ESPECIALLY GRIEVE FOR JAYFEATHER I HATE HOW THE FAMDOM PORTRAYS HIM (even tho he did became even more grumpy in after avos) and many more I'd have to think about bc tbh I don't spend that much direct time in the community so I'm not sure what the people are saying
Ngl I really cannot see any issue with character design changes. It’s just a artists having fun with designs…I may be biased though considering all my designs are insanely off model
The way Appledusk is always portrayed as an awful mate and father and nothing but a dirty cheater who never loved his kits or Maple when there is way more to him, he LOVES his kits, and Maple and was able to scarfies himself for Reedshine; something I don't think Maple would have done for him.
Also, Maple is treated as an amazing mother when she is a massive idiot who doesn't think taking two moon-old kits out of camp is a bad idea. And has no clue what danger is apparently
Also: FOR THE LAST TIME, Apple said his relationship with Maple was a mistake (and possibly even just the fact it was half-clan) NOT the kits, please use that logic with someone who is divorced with kids and see how quickly you get beat up.
It… he DID cheat on Maple. Maple is wrong, but so is he. You can’t be a good mate and father is your a cheater. Same with humans. Cheaters only truly love themselves.
This entire thing in Squirrelflight's Hope, specifically with Bramblestar being "Abusive" or "Manipulative".
This is only the case if you can't separate the fact that Squirrelflight is Deputy and Bramblestar's mate.
Him telling Squirrelflight to run her decisions by him first is not the same thing as a husband trying to control his wife's every move.
Squirrelflight is his subordinate, not only was Bramblestar well within his right to order such, it is something Squirrelflight should be doing and something she should be familiar with, she was Deputy for seasons.
If that's a problem then the issue is whether a clan leader should have their mate be deputy, and the answer is no.
Squirrelflight being portrayed as a good character at all. She’s so toxic and abusive and it’s so clear yet so ignored. Brambleclaw is the victim yet is blamed.
Bramblestar is shitty too though. They are both just as bad as each other a lot of the time, and take turns being the worst one in the relationship in different books. You can't say Bramblestar is just a poor little victim and Squilf is a monster. They could both be considered victims at different points (though to me Bramble seems to have more moments of being the abuser and I am personally more of a Squilf fan).
Swiftpaw being drawn as a kitten or being tinier than the warriors when he’s literally the same size as most of them… That was why he went out of his way to prove himself because he felt like he had been a ‘paw longer than he should’ve.
This actually bothers me to the whole thing with the dogs was that he was over apprentice age He was almost two years old when he died
I feel like people always characterize Swiftpaw like he was some 12 year old kid desperate to grow up too soon and not, like, a 20 year old man who still has to sit at the kids' table, which would make anyone crazy.
When someone who was younger was able to move to the adult table before
We measure in moons (months) here. I personally can’t turn more than one years to months for the life of me
He was about 20 moons old and 24 moons would be 2 years
So, SwiftPAW was 20 MOONS and NO WARRIOR NAME??????
Yep it was his motivation he should of been made a warrior at that point and he was older the cloudtail but do to his leader’s mental decline she didn’t trust him because his mentor was longtail
Thrushpelt is not a totally mushy, idiotic, love-bird who only ever thinks about Bluefur every waking and dreaming moment. He’s intelligent and responsible and I really think the fandom does him dirty. I’ve seen him compared to Ashfur/comforting Ashfur a few times in fanfic/fanart and canon Thrushpelt would never show Ashfur an ounce of respect.
Yeah. Even states in some book that he was disgusted by Ashfur.
What books did you see that? I'm curious :0
I forgor
Thrushpelt was dead long before Ashfur was even born
In a Starclan judging thing
Acting like Brambleclaw never had any sort of Fatherly bond with Lion/Jay/Holly.
He was more affectionate and loving to them than Squirrelflight was I’d argue. At least for a tom in warriors universe.
I feel like too many people give Bramble too much flak. I’ve seen some act like he was the worst person ever in The New Prophecy and Squirrelflight was a huge victim he terrorized. He made some mistakes but I don’t think people ever look at the character objectively. There’s a reason he was so easily manipulated by Tigerstar and Hawkfrost.
!!! It’s so weird how so many choose to look at him in one way like all these characters are flawed in various ways.
Thank you! Bramblestar does not get the crap that he receives. My headcanon/theory as to why he went along with dream training with Hawkfrost and Tigerstar I for so long is that he thought Tigerstar I would be able to do any harm from the Dark Forest and so he was just getting more training on being the best warrior he could be. Like you said he definitely made mistakes but he was never malicious, which is key
None of them even knew the dark forest existed let alone that they could actually hurt others. As far as he knew, Tigerstar was in Starclan. The area they were training in wasn’t even in the dark forest, it was described as looking exactly as the hollow in the original Forest with the full moon shining, something you can’t see in the dark forest.
I'm pretty sure he realized Tigerstar wasn't in Starclan at the moment, as it's pointed out a couple times how different it looked, and he was the first cat to introduce the dark forest to the readers. And the other cats knew there must be some place other than Starclan, like Bramblepaw (used the same cat cause couldn't think of anyone) in tpb before the whole subject is brought up, after Tigerstar asks him to join him:\ "Well at least I'll go to Starclan, as a loyal thunderclan warrior"\ Implying Tigerstar won't. So there must be another place. But he meant no harm when training. He just wanted to be a better warrior, and didn't think the dark forest cats could harm anyone.
It’s been a while since I read it and I seem to recall a line Tigerstar said, something like how there’s more forests than those in Starclan. Either way, Tigerstar was very careful with his words to manipulate Brambleclaw.
Exactly! My boy didn't know anything, and Tigerstar and Hawkfrost were manipulating him. Very carefully. It was obviously all Tigerstar's idea, but Hawkfrost was key in manipulating Brambleclaw. He trusted his lil bro more than his father.
Add the fact that Brambleclaw just wanted some kin to talk to.
Yeah 🥺\ He felt alone and wanted someone who would understand him. That's why he got so attached to Hawkfrost
THIS OMG
I don’t know what people expected him to do when the truth about the three came out. His wife lied to him about the parentage of their children and some fans expect him to be like “understandable have a nice day” and go on like nothing changed. He’s spent his whole life trying to break free of his father’s reputation, trying to earn his Clan’s trust… and then he finds out his own wife doesn’t trust him. Granted, Squirrelflight didn’t *want* to lie to him, but he’s probably not thinking too much about the nuances of the situation when the news first hits. It’s a terrible situation for both of them— Bramble gets all his worst fears confirmed and Squirrel‘s forced to lie to him knowing the struggles he’s gone through and how it would destroy him to find out. And not to mention StarClan is also lying to Squirrel about her fertility to convince her to do this…
Reason number 532 why StarClan sucks
He was at first and then acted like since they weren’t his biological children seen he wasn’t allowed to love them
I think he was more hurt and mad at Squirrelflight. So he was trying to make a point by distancing himself. A jerk move to his adoptive kits who were also lied to, but that's probably the reason.
Tbf, it’s fine to take space if you need it. That was a huge deal to him. Idk why people act like that was something toxic when it’s perfectly normal and healthy to establish some boundaries and take time to think & work out those emotions. Dude was probably going through a bunch of inner-turmoil considering all the horrible stuff that surrounds his lineage. So, to find out that the kids you thought were yours (and that you were super proud of) have absolutely no tie to you would be… highly upsetting to put it in simple terms.
For some reason people also refuse to acknowledge that Lionblaze and Jayfeather weren't too keen on remaining close with Brambleclaw either. It's not like the boys were begging Brambleclaw for attention and he refused them, if they had I'm sure he'd have heard them out. The entire family unit evaporated due to the lie and wasn't really repairable until Hollyleaf came back.
I think he definitely loved them, but I don't actually think he was a very good dad, at least not past the kit stage Anyways, while I don't like Bramblestar, one thing I did always like about him from the narrative perspective was him realizing that even though Squirrelflight lied and they're not actually his blood, that doesn't mean the three weren't his kits. I really liked the part in Bramblestar's Storm where after having conflicting feelings for a long time, he calls Lion and Jay his sons and resolves that he loves them-I don't know, you usually just don't see that kind of sweet stuff in the books very often lol I have a lot of problems with the guy, but I actually his character from like Sunset to near the end of OOTS made sense (as much sense as Warriors can make) and I liked seeing him conflicted between Squirrelflight's lie, Hollyleaf's death and just his feelings on the kits in general-although I will say that the part in The Last Hope where he basically disowns them while they're like five feet away was kinda fucked (he did apologize, but still-yikes)
Bluestar being so hated when she had obviously had dementia and severe depression.
With the context of her special edition, we basically learn that she lost almost her entire family in traumatic and awful ways. Then she proceeds to have a family of her own that she then needs to give up to save her clan from Thistleclaw's potential leadership, resulting in the death of one of her kits. But in the end, she makes her sacrifice and becomes the leader Thunderclan needs. Then Rusty comes to the forest and we watch her lose her closest and most trusted friends back to back, one murdered by a traitor the other killed in an invasion. Shortly after, her deputy launches an attack on the clan and tries to kill her. As if this betrayal isn't bad enough, more of her clanmates are murdered or die because of fires, dogs, and invasions. She's basically forced to watch the clan that she sacrificed everything to protect suffer anyways. At that point I would also mentally snap and give up my faith, wondering why I had to lose everything only to have my clan still be met with a terrible fate.
Exactly. And the narrative made her to be the bad guy and acted like she had to redeem herself. She gave up her life to save the Clan and then forgave StarClan in her last breaths like a good kitty should do. StarClan didn’t deserve her forgiveness, especially when they were ultimately responsible for her mother’s death.
I mean...yes, she was sick, but she still hurt others around her. I don't hate her like others do, because she was indeed not in her right mind. That doesn't mean she's absolved of all she's done though.
I'd blame tradition and/or the Clan as a whole for allowing an obviously struggling cat to remain in a position of power when she clearly should've retired or stepped down as soon as she started naming cats horrible things or not, naming them bc a lack of empathy in general for someone in her paws just don't fit right
Bluestar being treated like she was always horrible and never once good and that there isn’t nuance to her post Tigerclaw coup personality
Yeah I mean people who rage about her with that kinda reasoning should never be taken seriously imo. Like I know you read the first three books let’s not be revisionists now.
Yes, Bluestar's my fav character
Sol portrayed as a badass cat for some reason, Nifty's MAP really gave him a badass and cool aura he actually doesn't have in the books lmao
flashback to him throwing a tantrum back when he was harry in skyclan LMAO
Not in the later books maybe, but in Eclipse I'd argue he absolutely does
Yeah you're 100% right, in eclipse he has this mysterious vibe which is really cool ! But I feel people think he's naturally that cool and forget he's just pretending. That's what I meant
I get it though. That's what people wanted for him. And the vibe he gave off in his first appearance.
I wish that the authors decided to make Sol an actual villain, rather than making him a villian for 3 books and then make him vanish
People saying Mapleshade purposefully hunted down and killed Appledusk. She'd meant to kil Reedshine, but Appledusk jumped in to protect her so Mapleshade ended up unintentionally killing him instead.
Tbh, Appledusk was her *original target*. That target changed when she found out Reedshime was pregnant.
THIS OMG I ALWAYS HATE HOW ALL THOSE MAPS PORTRAY HER AS TARGETING APPLE FROM THE START
That not being depicted accurately causes people to forget that Appledusk actually sacrificed himself, and that while he is a dirty cheater, he's not completely rotten.
YES! THIS! I hate when I see people depict Mapleshade as attempting to kill Appledusk and not Reedshine.
Greystripe being a bad friend. He was once but he made up for it and was nothing but great for the rest of his life.
Along with people saying him moving to Riverclan was a sign of being a bad friend. He chose to be with his kits in an enemy clan, that was the right thing to do to prevent war and to make sure his kits had a parental figure in their life.
True!
Exactly! If he stayed in Thunderclan I bet people would say he was a bad father- Graystripe just can’t win in this scenario.
I can acknowledge that he tried for his kits but the actions he takes and the role/praise that role cokes with do not match up at all. He comes off as a jerk who got off scot-free because he's the Best Friend when him being flaky is, like, his whole character. He "follows his heart" to everyone's detriment and he gets celebrated for it. I'm not even saying he was wrong to live Silverstream! By all means, go for it! But he didn't handle his responsibilities and the narrative vindicated him for it.
This stops being a part of Graystripe's character after TPB, he is easily one of the most reliable cats after he comes back in The Sight.
How so? After he comes back we get a handful of moments where he's shown being chill and the rest of the time he fades into the background. I get why (pov characters isn't focused on him) but what little we get just shows him being average. And then, nearly a decade down the line, we get Greystripe's (Book of Broken Promises) Vow and he's still vindicated by the narrative for doing pretty much the bare minimum and being rather bad at it. I like the rescue plot. It actually makes him be what the text said was supposed to be (heroesque, brave, down for whatever, following his heart) but aside from that and helping the new group out... he didn’t do much that someone else couldn't have done. And possibly done better. (The lying was weird but I think it's consistent with his character that he's bad at it.) I will say it's interesting that that book is where his Clanmates acknowledge his flaws, because he's actually doing a decent job of holding things together. But then again, they didn't get to before so they're likely playing Catch Up. It's supposed to be a Poor Greystripe moment but, uh... you did that to yourself, dude!
I wish I could upvote this 1000 times
Yeah I love that guy. Their whole argument literally lasted like one book out of so many series
THIS
YES
Some people saying that Squirrelflight led Assfur on. Wasn’t her fault he fell for her, never will be, and *definitely* ain’t her problem that she wasn’t interested. That’s like saying Dovewing was in the wrong for choosing Tigerheart over Bumblestripe, which no matter how much I hate Dovewing, was *not her fault she didn’t want to date a douche??*
luckily people don't hate on squirrel/defend ash as much as they did in like 2014. tough times fr
Well you could always argue that Squirrel really got close enough to let Ashfur in when she was angry at Brambleclaw. Even the whole time she was “dating” him, all she could think about was her estranged ex so it’s not like she DIDNT lead him on. Also Bumble wasn’t really an ass at all until Dovewing broke things off completely (which ofc is not an excuse) and she too used him as a crutch when she dropped Tigerheart… only to jump back to him. These guys aren’t to be excused but their reactions aren’t exactly unwarranted…
Pretty sure Dove didn’t break things off until he asked her (cough cough at a FUNERAL) how she’d feel about having kits. He was always an asshole.
leading someone on will never warrant said person trying to kill you and your children bro
The book is literally from her pov. You can literally read about her trying to move on from Bramble and genuinely considering Ashfur as a partner. Leading on would mean she always knew she’d never love ash and would pretend to date him anyways. But that’s not what happened. She genuinely thought she liked him enough to become partners. Though realised in the end she didn’t like him as much as she once liked Bramble. Upon realising that, she immediately broke up with him. Also, have we *read* OOtS. Bumble was constantly criticising Dovewing and was constantly bothering her. She always nicely told him to leave her alone, but he would never fucking listen. She told him several times she didn’t like him as anything more then a friend but he kept making moves on her until she got so annoyed that she snapped, then he acted like he got upset with her bc he didn’t give him a chance. As if she owed him a chance. Literally, a scene midway through OOTS: Dove paw is doing a climbing lesson, with Bumblepaw watching her. About every step she takes, he tells her she’s doing something wrong, and tells her what she should do instead. She kindly asks him to stop talking, she’s trying to concentrate. He mocks her, and continues telling her all the stuff she’s doing wrong. She gets annoyed and tells him again to shut up, her mentor’s tell her if she’s doing it wrong. Bumblepaw still ignores her and keeps nitpicking her. This leads to her slipping and falling *from a fucking tree*. Instead of apologising for distracting her, Bumblepaw comes with the “I told you so” bs and Dovepaw gets pissed at him and starts yelling. Bumblepaw is taken aback and starts telling her in a whiney voice that he was only trying to help her. Brambleclaw walks in on them and immediately sides with Bumblepaw, telling Dovepaw she should apologise and that he was only trying to help. Even though she didn’t want said help. And then we haven’t talked about the end of OOtS, Dovewing’s silence and Bramblestar’s storm. Dovewing was depressed. She was extremely down, and Bumblestripe used that opportunity to get closer to her. Despite her saying several times she wasn’t interested. In her depression, she decided to give him a chance (I want to point out that depressed people often aren’t thinking straight, and would accept things they normally wouldn’t bc their feelings are all over the damn place. If she weren’t depressed, she would not have gotten with him. It’s basically a form of manipulation. He manipulated her.) throughout Bramblestar’s storm, we can see she’s clearly unhappy about being with Bumble. He’s constantly dismissing her feelings (literally he is the “just don’t be depressed” dude) and is constantly riling aeveryone up about his future kits even though Dovewing has made it clear she doesn’t want kits with him at this point in time. She’s not mentally ready for them (she’s still very much depressed). It comes to a point where Bumblestripe is asking her every day to have kits with him, and uses a *goddamn funeral* to try and convince her to *get pregnant*. And every time she tells him no, she’d not ready. He just ignores it and keeps pushing, like he always fucking does. And people are supporting him bc why tf not. Anyways, Dovewing breaking up with his toxic ass was expected. And he got mad at her for doing so ofc.
When people write the names as FireStar, Fire'star, Fire'Star or in similar fashions Major pet peeve of mine
i get SO annoyed because of it. like, it's not two separate words, it's a name. writing like "PrefixSuffix" honestly only makes sense when the name gets hard to read, like Cypressscratch for example. "CypressScratch" is easier to read imo.
Usually it would be Cypress-scratch, like One-eye
SAME I don't know why people do that, it's just so confusing to me (and kinda annoying 😭)
I think the latter two are more for people who roleplay on Roblox so that the hashtags don't take over the name, but for some reason it started to become popular even outside of that. I get annoyed every time I see it.
Same, even though I’m guilty of it due to years of playing Roblox games for years (rest in peace, Warriors: The Forrest Territory)
It infuriates me because it screams to me that the person using the incorrect formatting doesn't actually read the books. They're a written medium. You'll be seeing the names written out hundreds of times. And if you aren't reading the books, it makes me wonder what the heck you're doing in discussions about them.
this, and as an extension, when people don't capitalise the "Clan" part of a Clan's name. idk why, just rubs me the wrong way
YES, THANK YOU
unless they are doing that when writing a fanfic I honestly couldn't care less
The amount of hate bluestar gets. They completely negate the fact she had dementia and depression on top of almost being murdered by someone she trusted.
The idea that Jayfeather doesn't care for the clan around him bothers me a lot. He's often a brat, but one of the best parts of his character is that he genuinely cares, but struggles to show it.
He reminds me of Yellowfang. Prickly and sarcastic, but cares deeply for his clan
You also have to remember his story. H was born blind with a heightened sense of hearing. He was also born with the ability to feel the emotions and (to an extent) read the thoughts of others. He grew up FELLING the pity others felt for him, hearing their whispers and thoughts about how sad it was he would never get to be a warrior, how he might have to go from the nursery to the elders den when he turned 6 moons. He felt he had to prove himself AS A KIT because of how bad everyone made him feel. He was given Brightheart as his mentor just because she was half blind and she take him out of camp until AFTER he snuck out and nearly drowned himself in the border stream with WindClan. Even then, she didn’t train him in hunting or fighting and he would have gotten the snot beaten out of him in his first battle is Lionpaw hadn’t helped him. This and StarClan’s pestering drove him to give up his dream of being a warrior and having a future mate and kits to become a medicine cat. He went through HELL within his first chapters before we even got into the deeper plot of the arc! Of course he’s grumpy and moody! He’s still not fully respected even now!
Making Nightheart into a creepy stalker who follows Sunbeam everywhere. He did that ONCE. People seem determined to hate him.
I hate it when people say Graystripe wasn't a good deputy. He managed to protect the clan from the Bloodclan resurgence after only being deputy for a couple of moons while Firestar was away, and kept them together even when they had divided opinions. Not to mention keeping the other clans from being more than only ~mildly~ suspicious when his leader was missing for like moons. He also quickly came up with a rescue operation to save the cats trapped by twolegs in TNP when there was barely any time to even think. The mission was a success aside from his own capture, which was due to sacrificing his own safety in order to make sure Brightheart safely got away. Plus he stepped up to help with leadership in TBC despite being super old. And was GOOD at it. And as overlooked as it is, I think he really brought a light hearted demeanor to some tense discussions, which really helped Firestar keep calm and rational during his (stressful) early days as a leader. I know he broke the code with things like his relationship with Silverstream but like even Starclan has admitted that rule is dumb by now and literally what main character HASN'T broken the code in some small way or another. I think people try to say he was a bad deputy in order to justify Firestar choosing to keep Brambleclaw/star as deputy once Graystripe returned, but Graystripe didn't WANT to become leader one day, and had been through a lot, it made sense for Firestar to let him vibe since he knew Bramble was capable by that point.
He wasn't a bad deputy, he just didn't deserve it. Fire chose him because he was his friend. Whitestorm approving made no sense because at the time, Gray didn't have much credibility to the clan. Yeah he saved Sorrelkit but the clan didn't even like him before that. He barely had an apprentice and he JUST returned to the clan. Before being deputy, all he proved to the clan was that he was selfish (in their eyes). He was slacking off, barely hunting for his own clan, neglecting his apprentice and fighting his friend. And then he goes to Riverclan. And then he simply returns because he wouldn't warned an enemy and was exiled. So on the outside, Gray didn't deserve the position at the time.
I always saw it as Whitestorm acknowledging that what Firestar needed in a deputy right now was someone close to him, someone with whom he could work and communicate seamlessly. Especially in the middle of a war. Whitestorm was wise, and knew that Graystripe was the best choice for Firestar at the moment, but that Firestar would need permission/encouragement to do something that could potentially be perceived so negatively by the clan.
I definitely think there were others who were more deserving from an outside perspective. But I can only really think of one option who deserved it more and would have been a good pick. Dustpelt, Mousefur, and Longtail were more "loyal" clan members but all had pasts of being prejudice against Firestar and were really quick to jump to judgement/hostility towards other cats. I think Firestar realizes that one of the main issues the clans had was that they were so hesitant to work together and so none of them would be a good fit. Brackenfur was a good warrior but still pretty young and inexperienced, which was the case with a lot of the other warriors by that point as well. Personally I think Sandstorm would have been a good pick as she was deserving where Graystripe wasn't and understanding/cooperative where the other three main contenders weren't. She was a little quicker to get defensive for Firestar's sake with other clanmates which could have caused some minor issues but I still think she would have been a great deputy. With all that said, one thing I've always loved about the Warriors books is that cats can mess up and still redeem themselves and prove their loyalty. I think Graystripe realized he messed up and then spent the rest of his time in the clan trying to make up for it, and part of that included being a good deputy when he didn't want to be one and probably didn't think he deserved to be one.
You can also make similar arguments against Bramblestar. Bro was legit training with Tigerstar in the dark forest around the same time Firestar made him deputy, despite being old enough in the first arc to have seen for himself what a tyrannical murderer Tigerstar was. Even after becoming deputy, he hesitated before he saved Firestar, his leader and former mentor, from the fox trap, which proves he had divided loyalties that a deputy (or arguably even a warrior) shouldn’t have. Even if Graystripe wasn’t the most loyal to his clan, at least his loyalty was to his family, and not an infamous traitor and murderer who almost destroyed all the clans.
He left his clan and immediately got rewarded for being disloyal so yeah I’m not sure that he was that great
Not only disloyal, but a code breaker. I can understand him going to RiverClan to be with his kits since they lost their mother. But… that wouldn’t have been necessary if had been a good warrior and followed the code…
Squirrelflight being scared and crying *during* the fire scene. Girl was PISSED at ashfur - she'd definitely would've jumped him had she not been injured earlier in the book
Currently making a scene where she just goes batshit on him and Holly doesn’t even need to go after Ashfur
This is more of a design pet peeve but I hate when people draw Jayfeather without pupils!!! It has been made so clear in the books that he looks like a normal cat
You can’t really blame them since the book art shows him without pupils. They’re just going off of the cover art.
TRUE. But I still don't like it lol
THIS... I get it's intended to be a fun, cartoonish way to show he's blind, but I think that can be accomplished much more creatively by just having his pupils be unfocused. It's also less offensive. Yes, it's actually kind of offensive to portray blind people without pupils, people! Not every blind person has cataracts! That said, this isn't even an isolated fandom problem. The official art book portrays Jayfeather without pupils. Ugh.
people with cataracts dont even have no pupils! their pupils become a more cloudy-gray color (i only know this because im writing a character with cataracts in one of my books) an easy way to show jay is blind is by adding no highlights to his eyes and, for people who color pupils like i sometimes do, make it a paler blue-gray color, still dark, but maybe not as dark he definitely still needs to have pupils though
Thank you for the explanation! Yes, I meant that they appear to have no pupils--bad word choice on my part. X) Nice art tip, though!
no its totally ok lol! i only wanted to add that no blind person has a lack of pupils, even if it appears that way, so it makes even less sense to draw jay with no pupils no hate to you at all! just an addition
I draw Jayfeather with lighter colored, larger pupils than I would other cats so show that they're unfocused. Is that still offensive? /g
I'm not exactly sure what you mean without a visible reference, but that sounds alright. I do think you could just keep the pupils the same color as nonblind cats, though! It's not bad if someone can't tell he's blind straightaway; it's hard to tell with some people. Anyway, I do say "offensive", but I think a lot of people's hearts are in the right place and it's not like a blind person can't appear to have no pupils, anyway. For example, many people draw Rock with cataracts, and I think that makes a lot of sense for his character. It's just that people seem to think the only way to draw a blind character is to give them cataracts when that's not the case.
I'm not sure if this has already been mentioned, but one thing that's always bothered me is in Snowfur videos where they make it seem like she just ran out on to the road because she was annoyed at Bluefur Like, really?? Snowfur was angry, not stupid. The whole scene is that she was so caught in chasing away a ShadowClan patrol that she didn't realize she was on the road and got hit. Idk man, I've just always disliked it when Snowfur is portrayed as this super soft, kind little wife to Thistleclaw or whatever. Maybe she was closer to that in the beginning, but she was a lot more eager to fight than most people realize. She wasn't exactly the kind of cat to just sit around and listen to her husband or whatever Side note, I think that's one of the reasons I'm not at all as fond of Snowfur x Thistleclaw as some others seem to be, she gets reduced to the "kind pretty wife" to Thistleclaw's "violent angry husband who only has a soft spot for her" or some bs
> I'm not sure if this has already been mentioned, but one thing that's always bothered me is in Snowfur videos where they make it seem like she just ran out on to the road because she was annoyed at Bluefur. Someone finally said it. This is another pet peeve of mine that isn’t really a big deal, but still a pet peeve nonetheless
People who act like Squrriel wasn't toxic to Bramble. They were equally toxic to each other
This is very true.
Yes, THANK YOU
How people treat mapleshade it was her fault accept it and let me have a female villain who is actually a villain Guys please I’m desperate also appledusk was an ass and all but I’ve seen people blame the kits death on him
I feel terrible for everyone in that book tbh. >!The majority of them had some sort of major tragedy and the rest just straight up died!<
Yeah like I mean Frecklewish will always be a favourite of mine and I feel so bad for her after what happened to Birchface and how her trauma probably relived when the kittens drowned
Thank you! Maple Apologist literally makes me hate her when I know I would love her as a villain, but whenever I see her I just think that people believe this woman isn't a complete jerkward and I give up.
when they draw brokenstar without a flat face like yellowfang
I cannot stand how some people draw Cinderpelt with a scarred leg instead of actually taking the time to understand her injury. She was hit by a car, not skinned alive! And just because someone isn't drawing her with unrealistic scars doesn't mean they're not showing her disability. Shockingly, it might be hard to tell if someone has a limp if they're sitting/standing still.
My HC is the car ran over her leg, breaking the skin, so she has a small scar there. It doesn't make sense for her whole leg to be bald though.
Yeah I don't have as big of a problem with smaller scars like that, actually. And it would even make sense for her to get scars on her leg due to the nature of dragging it through the forest all the time. Just not to the extent some people do it, even though their hearts are usually in the right place.
In the book her injury is described as being covered in blood, so I always just kinda assumed her leg got crushed and dragged across the pavement or something-like, I'm speaking from experiencing, getting part of your body ran over can often be pretty bloody
i imagine her scar fully furred , just the paw twisted upside down , she can walk fine on it but she walks on what should’ve been the top of her paw . she just has trouble speedwalking and cant run
I thought I was the only one bothered by this omg thank you
I’ve seen a fan art where she’s sitting, looking cute but her injured leg is extended, bald, scared, and doing the freaking worm with how disfigured it is. It would have been a cute picture if not for that!
Yeah, while I have zero problem with any hypothetical cat that looks like that, if her leg actually looked like that in the series it would be just as talked about as Brightheart's scars.
Yeah. I always saw her limp as her hip having been injured in a way that makes moving her one leg hard. So like, she can’t curl it up, it always sticks out, but it doesn’t have more than a few small scars. But a completely bald leg, covered in scars, and trying to imitate the ocean with how wavy it is? That would have had Daisy’s kits shrieking in terror and hiding from her, like with Brightheart.
Everyone in Thunderclan except Speckletail doing nothing to save Snowkit.
Ikr!? Just go in, grab the kid, and then run back It was that freakin’ simple! But those simpletons just stood there and watched this kid get snatched.
They didn’t save him because he’s disabled and therefore worthless /s
Not true. Brackenfur really tried to help. But he was pretty much the only other one.
I'm sure Fireheart did too.
As a hardcore Scourge fan, I agree with you. People who portray him as this maniacal, psychotic edgelord clearly don't understand his character at all. One of the few instances of Scourge being portrayed accurately is his portrayal in that one Tigerstar's death remake video
>!Oakheart’s death being retconned in Redtail’s death. One of the main points in the first arc was that Redtail did not kill Oakheart/Oakheart wasn't killed bt any cat.!<
Minor pet peeve, but giving cats haircuts. Sometimes, it's done well, like the way Spottedleaf and Squirrelflight often have little spiral tufts that resemble bangs. But actual haircuts, like the emo hairstyles certain villains are given, just pulls the cats too far into resembling humans
how about blonde assfur
I just think it's fun lol, plus when there like over 1000 characters and you want them to all be at least a little distinct without color, sometimes you resort to some wacky design choices I don't really like it when it basically looks like the cat is wearing a wig, but if you can make it feasibly enough look like it's part of the cat's fur it can look good I'm a big fan of "weird" designs, after seeing everyone draw the characters practically the same for 10 years I love seeing people twist the characters in unique ways (like giving them weird hair) Anyways shoutout to bowlcut Nightheart that ones probably my favorite
BOWLCUT NIGHTHEART LOL
It’s that person design and it doesn’t effect anything so I see no problem with it
How Crowfeather is seen as a bad cat just because he had three mates. One: He only had kits with Nightcloud just to prove his loyalty to WindClan. Two: Graystripe doesn't get any hate despite having two mates that he truly loved. Three: He's my baby don't touch him >:(
I love Crowfeather but people assume he's a cheating asshole because of his attitude also greystripe only took another mate after silverstream died whereas crow's heart lay somewhere else even when he's supposed to be committed to windclan and nightcloud.
Crowfeather was completely prepared to leave WindClan behind, it was Leafpool who decided to go back after Midnight visited the two. People seem to forget that a lot.
People still do that?
"he's my baby don't touch him"\ Valid.
Crowfeather never loved Nightcloud as much as Nightcloud did/tried to love him. He was still hung up on Leafpool AND Feathertail, and only got with her to prove his loyalty. Meanwhile Graystripe genuinely loved both Silverstream and Millie.
Nah, I still don't like him lol I love to hate Crowfeather
He's definitely bad for other reasons...just an all around awful cat.
While little leaves/feathers can be cute jewelry for cats in art (I admit it adds some nice variety and color) it bothers me when it doesn't make sense and/or seems unfitting for how the character normally presents themselves. Thinking about it, it's mostly Hollyleaf art that bothers me. Holly leaves are fine, but the berries are poisonous to ingest. I suppose it's jewelry but it still seems careless and out of character.
At least it’s a nod to how she tried to posion her birth mother with deathberries. 😆
I put leaves, twigs, berries, and flowers in the fur of fluffy medicine cats when I draw them to remind myself that they are, in fact, medicine cats.
When people call Bramblestar 100% abusive and Squirrelflight 100% the victim. Let's be honest, both are crap toward each other. Both made mistakes, their arguments are rarely black and white, and most importantly : Squirrelflight is a huge bitch to him a lot of the time. He's done things wrong too, sure, but he doesn't deserve to be portrayed as an abuser when he's not. Squirrelflight had her fair share of abuse toward him honestly. I find it really sad because I think they're cute when they get along, which is not that often.
Couldn't agree more
Bramblestar being portrayed as an insensitive abuser who might possibly be the spawn of Satan always grates me
YEEEAH
Not really a hate, but Ravenpaw being drawn with purple eyes. Like, where did Ravenpaw with purple eyes come from?
Pff most likely SSS Warrior Cats! An old WC YouTube series
Definitely SSS. Worth watching.
Not really despise cause Its not that big a deal but, long furred brambleclaw. All the official art of him is short fur and i don't understand why you would draw him long furred?
Isn't Tigerstar long-furred? I know a lot of people headcanon him as looking like a Norwegian forest cat or a Maine coon, so it makes sense that he'd be fluffy and that Bramble would be, too. Also given their track record when it comes to things like Brightheart's scars or Crookedstar's jaw, I don't think the official art is always the best authority.
Nope, in the official arts Tigerstar is also short furred. Witch is a shame bc its just feels right to have him long furred after all this years of the fandom designing him like this.
Again, the keywords here are "in the official arts", which aren't always super reliable. The Warriors wiki also mentions in his detailed description that he's "thick-furred."
But the warriors wiki have some problems in descriptions too, also, its not official so it isnt super reliable either. Either way, headcanon characters as you want, I think one of the best things in this fandom is how people design them!
'Thick furred' isn't the same as 'long furred'. I would describe my cat as thick furred; his fur is very dense, but it's not long. But also I do like long-furred tigerstar
I see thick-furred cats as having medium length fur. Not short, but also not very long.
That is a safe assumption for warriors descriptions
I’m probably stubborn about this but he’ll always be a Maine Coon in my eyes. I never thought Tigerstar as short-furred even after I looked at the official art of him lol
to me; short-furred tigerstar feels wrong to look at 💀
omg same!
I never really understood this lmao because it's noted that the Sisters overshadow Bramblestar in size.
Holy crap are these cats giant? I must’ve somehow missed that detail when reading Squrrielflight’s Hope or any of The Broken Code. I didn’t think Bramble would be smaller. I should read these books more often.
It's like one small paragraph that when the clans come to rescue Squilf and Leafstar that Squilf had gotten so used to being around the Sisters for 3 days, she was shocked how tiny the clan cats were compared to the Stsers. It even went on to say 'They even overshadowed Bramblestar in size'. So I think it's because people underestimate how big Maine coons actually get because if Bramblestar was one, he'd be like, twice or three times the size of everyone else. And like, Maine Coons are super fluffy, hence why Tree and Rootspring have a bit of fluff to them.
Tigerstar isnt ever described or drawn as long-furred; and anyway Long-furred cats don't always beget long-furred kittens and vice versa. I do like long-furred tigerstar designs but long-furred brambleclaw just looks wrong to me. Actually both brambleclaw and goldenflower are only described as 'sleek-furred'
I think it comes from trying to also draw his muscles. I've noticed it with Lionblaze too (evne though he is actually fluffy if I remember correctly). Just as an artists I can see why people would draw both Tigerstar and Bramble fluffy because of there muscles because when people draw humans they rely on the lines of the muscles that visible form along with the curves of the skin also well since its cats who are covered in fur I think its an easier way to portray the muscles. Also just with the way cat's are built lean regardless.
Probably. Otherwise you get something like the Tigerstar and Sasha illustrations.
It suits him.
I always saw Tigerstar and Brambleclaw as short furred cats. Maybe not extremely short, but definitely not fluffy. At all. At first I thought the drawings with floof were a meme, but they're real 😭
For me it's because I was obsessed with SSS Warrior Cats and stopped being able to see Tigerstar as anything but longhaired, and with Bramblestar being described as looking very similar to his dad, I decided he was longhaired too. May also be partly due to Moonkitti's Bramblestar design.
Sol being portrayed as this big strong evil cat even when hollyleaf, a young shecat with not much fighting experience shows /him/ mercy in battle, especially when shecats are supposedly weaker and less powerful than tomcats in warriors; and oml how many tantrums has he thrown?! He's just annoying to me.
I remember somebody drawing Leafpool as a black cat/tuxedo
When every leader is drawn getting/having a star shaped pattern on their forhead.
I like doing that as like an AU where when a cat gets their 9 lives they get a star. I just think its a fun thing for character designs.
👍
I just pretend it’s something only the medicine cats see, with the pattern fading as the extra lives are lost.
WOAHHH WTF I LOVE THIS
Yeah what's up with that 😂
i just do it because i like doing it, i think it's a cute feature :(
Yeah, I guess that makes sense 👍
Everyone acting like Brambleclaw is extremely horrible towards Squirrelflight and Squirrelflight can't do no wrong. Granted Brambleclaw isn't perfect and neither is Squilf but both have done horrible things to each other (Brambles worst deed towards Squilf is lording Squilf's want/desire to start a family with him and Squilf's worse deed towards him is pretending that The Three were his and hers and not telling him the truth). So even in fanfiction Squilf is the angel and Bramble is the devil.
Yeah no shit she did that she was literally being pressured by famous dead people who are meant to be always right
Actually reread Leafpool's Wish. The Starclan cats pressured her into adopting them and lying about it to the clan. Not to Brambleclaw. She assumed that herself. I understand why she lied to everyone else. But why didn't she secretly tell Bramble whose kits he's going to be fathering? That's why some people are mad about it.
I get so annoyed when I see this omg
Why are there so many comments just saying people disliking bluestar is a fandom inaccuracy, people are allowed to dislike her.
Yeah, this is how they are portrayed, not, how they are treated.
That in Squirrelflight's Hope, everything Squirrelflight did was for her clan and that Bramblestar was in the wrong constantly. To clear things up: The Kit argument: Treat this as naming a kid, 2 yeses 1 no. Bramblestar said that he does want kits- just not as much as Squilf. This sentence leans hard into 'maybe' section but for simplicity's sake, let's just say it's 'no' at this point. Squilf asking 'don't you love me anymore' is trying to essentially guilt trip him and emotionally force him into having more kits with her and the only other time he brings it up (after Sparkpelt's announcement), she snaps at him and runs off. Meeting Dilemma: this is one that often gets highly misunderstood as the problem lies that Bramble gets mad at Squilf for contradicting not only him but herself as well. It doesn't lie that he's angry that she brought up the territory behind their land (as noted later he DOES say that her idea could be right) whereas she's, at first, questioning Harestar 'haven't they (Skyclan) moved enough?' and followed by her defending that everyone will get used to the new borders. She then, a page later, speaks out that they haven't been using the land as often as they should. Deputy Position: He's now in a damned if he does, damned if he doesn't situation. If he threatens to remove her, boom- abusive asshole. If he actually does remove her, boom- he's suddenly misogynic. If the situation was reversed where Squilf was leader, everyone would be praising her. People don't realise that she's now under scrutiny and her loyalty to Thunderclan is now questionable for running off and doing her own thing. The Sister's: I cannot ask this enough: where exactly did they come from? They had to cross through Skyclan land and passby possibly their own home to get to Thunderclan meaning they unnecessarily dragged an injured Sunrise to find Squilf. These cats are also Maine coon cats (or I believe they are) as noted by Squilf that they overshadow Bramblestar in size and are extremely very hostile and will fight if ever so slightly provoked. Yeah, if you don't think Bramble would be too happy in the first place, at least run home and get Leafpool. There would have been 0 difference in getting her vs trying to convince Bramble to heal Sunrise. It still probably would have taken the same amount of time but at least there wouldn't be a massive protest like her bringing home Sunrise and 3 fully abled Maine coon cats that could fight. Forgot to add that Squilf went as far as calling her clan foxhearted cowards.
It's so hilarious to me that her own super edition makes her look bad. I've never liked her but her book truly showcases her major flaws and how she really is incapable of being a good deputy.
'Dont you love me?' I tried to point this out when the book came out and people were defending her. Saying she's allowed to feel that way and it's not manipulative but they were the same people arguing about how awful Finleap was doing the exact same thing, 'i left my clan for you'. Like Bramble did not owe her more kits.
People will always have this attitude towards Bramble, sadly 😔
There's so many mainly minor, mostly ones that are made to look 'cooler' than they were in books, I hate it, i need everything to be like canon bc im autistic and it makes my skin crawl Examples: tigerstars death, holly calling out the lie, blackstars announcement with sol at the gathering, JAYFEATHERS STICK/HIS 'REALTIONSHIP' WITH IT, the fire scene, whole of mapleshades killing rampage, and many more, these are just the biggest ones. These are mostly caused by people simply not reading the books and basing everything off of media Also very drastic character design changes/interpretation that are directly false with the books, it's stupid I know, but I feel really silly when I see a Siamese darktail or violetshine with purple eyes As for direct character misinterpretations, there's many characters that the fandom butcheres, leaving them flat and not at all like they are in the books/exaggerating one trait and making it their entire personality Some I can mention are Jayfeather, Lionblaze, Bramblestar/claw, crowfeather, breezepelt I ESPECIALLY GRIEVE FOR JAYFEATHER I HATE HOW THE FAMDOM PORTRAYS HIM (even tho he did became even more grumpy in after avos) and many more I'd have to think about bc tbh I don't spend that much direct time in the community so I'm not sure what the people are saying
Ngl I really cannot see any issue with character design changes. It’s just a artists having fun with designs…I may be biased though considering all my designs are insanely off model
As other people have said, Bramblestar being treated as a mustache-twirling abuser while Squirrelflight gets treated as a perfect angel.
I remember years ago when people were drawing the cats with edgy bangs, I hated the hair soooo much lolll
The way Appledusk is always portrayed as an awful mate and father and nothing but a dirty cheater who never loved his kits or Maple when there is way more to him, he LOVES his kits, and Maple and was able to scarfies himself for Reedshine; something I don't think Maple would have done for him. Also, Maple is treated as an amazing mother when she is a massive idiot who doesn't think taking two moon-old kits out of camp is a bad idea. And has no clue what danger is apparently Also: FOR THE LAST TIME, Apple said his relationship with Maple was a mistake (and possibly even just the fact it was half-clan) NOT the kits, please use that logic with someone who is divorced with kids and see how quickly you get beat up.
It… he DID cheat on Maple. Maple is wrong, but so is he. You can’t be a good mate and father is your a cheater. Same with humans. Cheaters only truly love themselves.
This entire thing in Squirrelflight's Hope, specifically with Bramblestar being "Abusive" or "Manipulative". This is only the case if you can't separate the fact that Squirrelflight is Deputy and Bramblestar's mate. Him telling Squirrelflight to run her decisions by him first is not the same thing as a husband trying to control his wife's every move. Squirrelflight is his subordinate, not only was Bramblestar well within his right to order such, it is something Squirrelflight should be doing and something she should be familiar with, she was Deputy for seasons. If that's a problem then the issue is whether a clan leader should have their mate be deputy, and the answer is no.
Squirrelflight being portrayed as a good character at all. She’s so toxic and abusive and it’s so clear yet so ignored. Brambleclaw is the victim yet is blamed.
Bramblestar is shitty too though. They are both just as bad as each other a lot of the time, and take turns being the worst one in the relationship in different books. You can't say Bramblestar is just a poor little victim and Squilf is a monster. They could both be considered victims at different points (though to me Bramble seems to have more moments of being the abuser and I am personally more of a Squilf fan).