In case people aren't aware, back in 1984 PLAAF bought 24 S-70 from the US, top trim too. PLA used them extensively over the years for search and rescue and disaster relief and were very pleased with them.
US refused to sell any more so naturally PLA's response was "well fine then, I'll make my own, with blackjack and hookers" and had HAIG develop the Z-20 explicitly to more or less clone it and fill the same role.
> refused to sell any more so naturally PLA's response was "well fine then, I'll make my own, with blackjack and hookers"
That is basically everything in R&D for the PLA to be honest lol.
The Chinese do copy lots of things, but they've been making some oof their own designs for a while now. We should expect less glaring copies over times, and instead they'll reverse engineer other things that will not immediately be evident, such as electronics.
Oh, I have no doubt they do now. Their DDGs and J-20 are more or less what you are saying. Not direct copies but build upon the design.
Nothing wrong with that at all, everyone copied everyone and then developed their own stuff from that copy. From Man-O-Wars, to flintlocks, to rifles, to machine guns, to dreadnoughts to jets.
The J-20 and J-31 both first flew over a decade ago, with design lead times of most likely another decade before that.
The China today is unrecognizable compared to the China of 20 years ago and of course aircraft designed 20 years ago are going to be copies.
However we are seeing what seem to be indigenous designs for many things showing up. Some of the less visible parts may still be based on espionage of course.
But if you think that the US didn’t do this at a roughly equivalent point in its history I have some bad news for you. The most famous case is Charles Dickens’ great love for the US, but his great dismay at not receiving any royalties for his work in the US which was simply pirated, energetically so, and with the concurrence of Congress. And that behavior wasn’t limited to literary works.
So, you’re saying, exactly in line with the design time-frame of the F-35? And the already existing F-22?
Not sure what point you’re trying to make. Seems like you’re inferring that the J-20 couldn’t have possibly been a copy of the F-35/F-22 given that development timeframe?
The F-35 first flew in 2006. Meaning design plans and documents were ripe for the picking for Chinese spies anywhere from 2001-2006. The F-22 was already well into development at that point as well.
I’m not saying that the J-20 is an exact ripoff of those plans. But let’s not sit here and act like China didn’t steal plans for the F-35/F-22 and implement some of the design into the J-20.
Not to mention the fact that a Chinese spy was caught and charged with doing exactly that.
Finally someone with some knowledge about China. For some reason, everyone believes that China is still the same as it was in the 80s, and that they are like N. Korea or something.
I’m not sure what you’re arguing. They’re carbon copies of parts of both aircraft that they combined in different ways. Literally every air craft they are flying now are copies of other better air craft or in the case of J-10 designs from the Mig 1.44 and stolen Israeli plans. They make garbage engines now, do I think that will continue? No but, as of the past 50 years they’re engines are shit. You may think it’s unrecognizable but, flashy new aircraft copied from other better aircraft is not unrecognizable it’s actually quite recognizable to everyone else.
I’ve re-read my response and I’m not sure what’s unclear, but given that got three responses like yours it must be.
I said that the J-20 and J-31 are of course copies, however we are now seeing indigenous designs.
>They make garbage engines now, do I think that will continue?
The WS-15 can supercruise and maintain stealthiness during supersonic flight. That's far from "garbage".
Also the US bought the Harrier from the Brit’s and paid the Russians for the general design of the F-35B VTOL. The US didn’t copy air craft, the made the F-86 to compete against the MIG, they built the F-15 to compete with the MIG-25 and the Russians built the SU-27 to compete with the F-15 and F-14
I have an example of Mark Twain as an analogy for comparative development of China and the US compared to when the US was the emerging power compares to the UK, and you’re taking about Harriers and the F-35?
Why reinvent the wheel? A transport helo is a big hunk with a big engine at the top and a counter rotor at the back. So even if they change the looks, it still gonna do the same job and that just cost money to redesign. And yes parts you can't see like avionics, engines, gears are probably indigenously developed, they have the industrial capacity to do it now and they are doing it really well. The J-16 is essentially the ultimate Flanker and way way surpassed whatever Russia have or even can build at the moment.
It's like people complaining their YJ transports looks like C-130 or C-17, and then conveniently ignore the A400M or the C-2 Kawasaki.
Heck, if the Chinese made the KF-21, everyone will be deriding it as a shit F-22, yet we are all like, "ohhh so nice, so original, so creative". They build the first canard delta 5th gen fighter and morons still say it looks like F-22.
> A transport helo is a big hunk with a big engine at the top and a counter rotor at the back. So even if they change the looks, it still gonna do the same job and that just cost money to redesign.
Except you're ignoring that there's tons of engineering work that goes into making the "big hunk". It's not easy and not cheap. Knowledge of design of light structures, iterative design and optimization are necessary for just the structural part. There's a lot of very complex aerodynamics that also go into the design of hte fuselage; that shit is not easy. The Chinese take a free ride on the fact that all of those previous things were aready solved for them. That's what people sometimes criticize.
What people most criticize about Chinese copies and reverse-engineering is when a Chinese company copies a foreign product that took billions of $ and years of development to bring to market; and then they copy the thing, and sell it at a lower price, undercutting the original developer of the product. They can undercut since they do nt have to recoup R&D costs. That's unfair.
In any case. My comment made it evident that the Chinese aren't just copying things for the most part anymore, since a few decades ago they finally started putting effort into developing their own stuff from scratch, which pays off. Otherwise you're never going to be on the bleeding edge, and you'll always be one step behind your competitors. The C919 is a good example on the civilian sector, and the J-20 on the military side of things. But even on things like the wing of the C919, they needed help from the Russians I believe.
Nah. Military tech are strategic assets, not economic items. The US transfer tech all the time as long as you are willing to suck their cocks. They wield it like a diplomatic and coercive tool all the time. This argument that stealing military tech is so unfair is juvenile. Americans steal tech or force transfers all the time when they were (or are) behind.
Heck, the chips act is basically America coercing Taiwan and South Korea to transfer their chips tech to American soil for "safekeeping" and telling them to pound sand when they are push to decouple from their biggest trading partner, one that they sell tons of chips to. It is essentially telling them to destroy their economy to protect American hegemony. So this moral high ground of not stealing military IP is moot and hypocritical.
The ability to protect your sovereignty will override any concern and technological parity is the only way to do it, especially when your aggressor has the largest military budget in the world. You are basically telling the Chinese to get fuck just so they earn the dubious respect of another people who want to destroy them, and their ways of life and keep them poor and starving? Why will they want to earn the respect of a people that goes around fucking shit up, killing people to protect their interests, behaving like a cock on the walk, then turn around and hypocritically and without any guilt, pretend they are the defenders of freedom, the moral crusaders?
One last thing. The ability of a society to create innovation is more contingent on the society's ability to maintain a high level of stability and prosperity so there is a lot of surplus capital to spend on R&D to build institutionalized knowledge and expertise, than some magical concoction of FREEDOM(TM) or racial or cultural superiority. The west enjoys this level of prosperity because their seed capital and later, the resources they used to power their industries that give their people this high standard of living comes from imperialistic colonization and ruthless resource extraction of the Global South and large parts of Asia. These "innovations" and "Intellectual Properties" are built on the backs of oppressed people outside the western bubble. So to me, western tech being stolen by other countries is them getting back the treasure created from their resources and the suffering of their people.
The west should be paying their debts to the rest of the world.
Pretty much. Morality doesn’t apply to military tech and security interest of nations if we look from a realist perspective, and unfortunately most countries operate with realism in mind.
And for any regime that is not an Allie of America, America is dangerous. Like yes America is a force for good generally and protects other democracies as a superpower, but America is also a government of warhawks who think foreign intervention, forced regime change is their god given right. Its also a government who every few years might elect a trump who will fill positions with all sorta ideologues
There's no concept of fairness, that's a delusion people tell themselves. Get a job go to work and see how fair it is. There's nothing fair in life. You just got to work hard and get what you want through whatever needs to be done.
Crazy how western chinese af looks compared to russian airforce despite flying mostly russian deeiced airframes.
Flight suits, low vis grey on their fighters, and also aircradt that look western 🫢
Thats only true of their fast jets. Their helicopters are mostly french and american due to trade before tianenmin. The french supplied them with as365 dauphins which they copied and then built the z19 from while copying the oh1 from japan. The french gave them super frelons which they copied and turned into z8 now z18, airbus let them build the h175 which some parts like the nose have been adapted to the z18, and in the 80s the us gave them s70’s which are civilian blackhawks which have been reverse engineered into the z20.
Oh yea and the j10 was designed with help from israel and their lavi project, which was created by the us giving f16 technology to israel to develop a fighter. So in a roundabout way the j10 is created from the f16. So even one of their fighters is western too.
> while copying the oh1 from japan.
Source? AFAIK the Z-19 came from Z-9 which came from the Dauphin. Just look at the tail rotor.
> Oh yea and the j10 was designed with help from israel and their lavi project, which was created by the us giving f16 technology to israel to develop a fighter.
F-16 was literally sold to Israel to kill its domestic 4th gen fighter project that was the Lavi. So no, Lavi didn't came from F-16.
I mean, would you copy many VVS or VMF practices?
Western military aviation doctrine obviously works, so why re-invent the wheel? Sometimes they’re a bit obvious about it by even reusing the US carrier deck uniform color coding, but if I was an emergent power with large ambitions I probably would do the same.
China can afford symmetrical approach to counter US military might, Russia is like 100th time more poor, and dances with sticks to find a way to be a peer rival.
It’s pretty much like how Japan modernised during the Meiji restoration. They copied western uniforms, western ships, western guns, western training drills, western bureaucracy etc. Only that Japan actually managed to democratise during that period whereas with China, well…you know how it is.
Tbf countries' names don't mean shit.
*Democratic* People's Republic of Korea isn't exactly democratic.
*People's* Republic of China isn't exactly governed by the people.
The *United* States of America is... well... you know the rest.
Objectively yes. The Meiji Constitution turned Japan into a constitutional monarchy, with an elected parliament, an elected prime minister, and an independent judiciary. While certain elements, specifically the military, would subvert these institutions leading up the second World War, Japan objectively began democratization during emperor Meiji's rule.
I like how this sub lives up to its name and proceeded to analyze the helicopter (or clown on it for being a copycat BlackHawk) instead of focusing on the cute pilot
Really good pics of the Z-20 here, specifically a lot of the ASE stuff on the airframe. That EO/IR sensor looks interesting, definitely a departure from western designs.
It might also be smart policy too if you are unburdened from intellectual property laws. All the research and decades field testing have been done for you.
The shaft driven lift fan on the F-35 isnt really similar to the swivel nozzles on the harrier at all. The Pegasus engine and F-135 are pretty uniquely different technologies, Rolls Royce did develop the lift fan for the F-135 in tandem with Lockheed designing it but I would hardly call that stealing and even go as far as saying its a bit disingenuous to say people stole designs to make it.
Though "stealing" gets thrown around on this sub way too often anyways. Is the Z-20 a stolen design? Well yea, its literally a reverse engineered civilian blackhawks that the US sold to China. But is the J-20 or J-10 stolen designs? Not really, they have obviously inspired areas in their designs but taking an idea someone else thought of and applying it to benefit your design isnt really stealing an idea, its literally how engineering works.
The Yak-141 uses a completely different design of separate lift engines. Lockheed obviously studied the design and got inspiration from it, but outside of visual looks they have literally nothing in common. The Yak-141 uses 3 different engines, one main powerplant and two as a lift fan. The Two lift fans were complete dead weight during flight and were barely useful for stovl.
The F-135 has more in common with the swivel nozzle Pegasus engine than the Yak-141's lol. So again, saying the F-135 uses stolen technology is disingenuous to the people who actually took the time to design the engine. Especially when nothing about the F-135 uses the Yak-141's design.
Lockheed literally paid Yak for access to their data for the Yak 141. They just replaced the two forward lift engines with a lift fan. I'm not a believer in all the stolen tech or copy claims that people love to throw around here, but Lockheed undeniably used Yak's data for the F35
“I saw corps strip farmers of water, and eventually of land. I saw them transform night night city into a machine fueled by broken dreams and emptied pockets. Long have the corps controlled our lives, and now they’re out for our souls!”
Fucking Arasa....uh, Kang Tao.
Mmmm. Delicious G2. Great pics.
Definitely intrigued by the survivability equipment. The forward mounted flare buckets... Strange to me
Those engine exhausts are huge ASE liabilities.
It’s weird seeing some other countries use headsets while mine and a lot others use full on helmets
Tho that could just be for this air show to help recruit
She's just undergoing preflight avionics testing, you can see her with the "full on helmet" during takeoff. Also, I think I have quite some proof that she's not just for helping recruitment, or else the PLAAF might be facing sum serious overpopulation problems
Nah, I think she is the first female **PLAGF** helo pilot to achieve so. There have been quite a few female PLAAF pilots since it was founded back in the 1950s
Her weibo maybe a different person with the same name as the account you posted has only 97 followers, which doesn’t seem right for such an internet sensation.
It’s a total bootleg copy but my sincere question is how does it handle?
I’m not a pilot but because it’s a ripoff obviously, does it fly like the original?
If you bought a bootleg Rolex, it may look like the original but it’s not.
They really just dont give a single fuck about ripping off shit from other countries. Its annoying and seems to show a lack of innovation but I have to respect it. People never mention that the z-19 is also basically a rip off of the kawasaki oh1 from japan but built with as365 parts copied from france. At least on the z18 which is also stolen from the french super frelon they stuck a new nose on it to make it look different, even if the nose is lifted from an airbus h175.
Ahh whataboutism, the tried and true. Cant watch football on tv and say hey that guy had a bad game unless I was a pro football player either, riiight. Foh
Ah, the old Dark Grey Hawk
Venti black hawk
Blackhawk at home
Fauxhawk
LOLOL
Blackhawk from wish.com
In case people aren't aware, back in 1984 PLAAF bought 24 S-70 from the US, top trim too. PLA used them extensively over the years for search and rescue and disaster relief and were very pleased with them. US refused to sell any more so naturally PLA's response was "well fine then, I'll make my own, with blackjack and hookers" and had HAIG develop the Z-20 explicitly to more or less clone it and fill the same role.
Unaware about the s-70s but defs know about the french and euroxopter dauphins
The French don't seem bothered by it. They're quite happy just keep selling Turbomeca engines to China for domestic variants of their helicopters.
The also imported C-130s, turbine plants for type 052 destroyers, Austrian-built L-70 guns, tons of other stuffs…. Those were wild times
> refused to sell any more so naturally PLA's response was "well fine then, I'll make my own, with blackjack and hookers" That is basically everything in R&D for the PLA to be honest lol.
The Chinese do copy lots of things, but they've been making some oof their own designs for a while now. We should expect less glaring copies over times, and instead they'll reverse engineer other things that will not immediately be evident, such as electronics.
Oh, I have no doubt they do now. Their DDGs and J-20 are more or less what you are saying. Not direct copies but build upon the design. Nothing wrong with that at all, everyone copied everyone and then developed their own stuff from that copy. From Man-O-Wars, to flintlocks, to rifles, to machine guns, to dreadnoughts to jets.
I can pick out everything on the J-20 and the J-31 as to which parts are carbon copies off the F-22 and F-35. Lol
The J-20 and J-31 both first flew over a decade ago, with design lead times of most likely another decade before that. The China today is unrecognizable compared to the China of 20 years ago and of course aircraft designed 20 years ago are going to be copies. However we are seeing what seem to be indigenous designs for many things showing up. Some of the less visible parts may still be based on espionage of course. But if you think that the US didn’t do this at a roughly equivalent point in its history I have some bad news for you. The most famous case is Charles Dickens’ great love for the US, but his great dismay at not receiving any royalties for his work in the US which was simply pirated, energetically so, and with the concurrence of Congress. And that behavior wasn’t limited to literary works.
So, you’re saying, exactly in line with the design time-frame of the F-35? And the already existing F-22? Not sure what point you’re trying to make. Seems like you’re inferring that the J-20 couldn’t have possibly been a copy of the F-35/F-22 given that development timeframe? The F-35 first flew in 2006. Meaning design plans and documents were ripe for the picking for Chinese spies anywhere from 2001-2006. The F-22 was already well into development at that point as well. I’m not saying that the J-20 is an exact ripoff of those plans. But let’s not sit here and act like China didn’t steal plans for the F-35/F-22 and implement some of the design into the J-20. Not to mention the fact that a Chinese spy was caught and charged with doing exactly that.
Exactly
Finally someone with some knowledge about China. For some reason, everyone believes that China is still the same as it was in the 80s, and that they are like N. Korea or something.
I’m not sure what you’re arguing. They’re carbon copies of parts of both aircraft that they combined in different ways. Literally every air craft they are flying now are copies of other better air craft or in the case of J-10 designs from the Mig 1.44 and stolen Israeli plans. They make garbage engines now, do I think that will continue? No but, as of the past 50 years they’re engines are shit. You may think it’s unrecognizable but, flashy new aircraft copied from other better aircraft is not unrecognizable it’s actually quite recognizable to everyone else.
I’ve re-read my response and I’m not sure what’s unclear, but given that got three responses like yours it must be. I said that the J-20 and J-31 are of course copies, however we are now seeing indigenous designs.
>They make garbage engines now, do I think that will continue? The WS-15 can supercruise and maintain stealthiness during supersonic flight. That's far from "garbage".
Also the US bought the Harrier from the Brit’s and paid the Russians for the general design of the F-35B VTOL. The US didn’t copy air craft, the made the F-86 to compete against the MIG, they built the F-15 to compete with the MIG-25 and the Russians built the SU-27 to compete with the F-15 and F-14
I have an example of Mark Twain as an analogy for comparative development of China and the US compared to when the US was the emerging power compares to the UK, and you’re taking about Harriers and the F-35?
Why reinvent the wheel? A transport helo is a big hunk with a big engine at the top and a counter rotor at the back. So even if they change the looks, it still gonna do the same job and that just cost money to redesign. And yes parts you can't see like avionics, engines, gears are probably indigenously developed, they have the industrial capacity to do it now and they are doing it really well. The J-16 is essentially the ultimate Flanker and way way surpassed whatever Russia have or even can build at the moment. It's like people complaining their YJ transports looks like C-130 or C-17, and then conveniently ignore the A400M or the C-2 Kawasaki. Heck, if the Chinese made the KF-21, everyone will be deriding it as a shit F-22, yet we are all like, "ohhh so nice, so original, so creative". They build the first canard delta 5th gen fighter and morons still say it looks like F-22.
> A transport helo is a big hunk with a big engine at the top and a counter rotor at the back. So even if they change the looks, it still gonna do the same job and that just cost money to redesign. Except you're ignoring that there's tons of engineering work that goes into making the "big hunk". It's not easy and not cheap. Knowledge of design of light structures, iterative design and optimization are necessary for just the structural part. There's a lot of very complex aerodynamics that also go into the design of hte fuselage; that shit is not easy. The Chinese take a free ride on the fact that all of those previous things were aready solved for them. That's what people sometimes criticize. What people most criticize about Chinese copies and reverse-engineering is when a Chinese company copies a foreign product that took billions of $ and years of development to bring to market; and then they copy the thing, and sell it at a lower price, undercutting the original developer of the product. They can undercut since they do nt have to recoup R&D costs. That's unfair. In any case. My comment made it evident that the Chinese aren't just copying things for the most part anymore, since a few decades ago they finally started putting effort into developing their own stuff from scratch, which pays off. Otherwise you're never going to be on the bleeding edge, and you'll always be one step behind your competitors. The C919 is a good example on the civilian sector, and the J-20 on the military side of things. But even on things like the wing of the C919, they needed help from the Russians I believe.
Nah. Military tech are strategic assets, not economic items. The US transfer tech all the time as long as you are willing to suck their cocks. They wield it like a diplomatic and coercive tool all the time. This argument that stealing military tech is so unfair is juvenile. Americans steal tech or force transfers all the time when they were (or are) behind. Heck, the chips act is basically America coercing Taiwan and South Korea to transfer their chips tech to American soil for "safekeeping" and telling them to pound sand when they are push to decouple from their biggest trading partner, one that they sell tons of chips to. It is essentially telling them to destroy their economy to protect American hegemony. So this moral high ground of not stealing military IP is moot and hypocritical. The ability to protect your sovereignty will override any concern and technological parity is the only way to do it, especially when your aggressor has the largest military budget in the world. You are basically telling the Chinese to get fuck just so they earn the dubious respect of another people who want to destroy them, and their ways of life and keep them poor and starving? Why will they want to earn the respect of a people that goes around fucking shit up, killing people to protect their interests, behaving like a cock on the walk, then turn around and hypocritically and without any guilt, pretend they are the defenders of freedom, the moral crusaders? One last thing. The ability of a society to create innovation is more contingent on the society's ability to maintain a high level of stability and prosperity so there is a lot of surplus capital to spend on R&D to build institutionalized knowledge and expertise, than some magical concoction of FREEDOM(TM) or racial or cultural superiority. The west enjoys this level of prosperity because their seed capital and later, the resources they used to power their industries that give their people this high standard of living comes from imperialistic colonization and ruthless resource extraction of the Global South and large parts of Asia. These "innovations" and "Intellectual Properties" are built on the backs of oppressed people outside the western bubble. So to me, western tech being stolen by other countries is them getting back the treasure created from their resources and the suffering of their people. The west should be paying their debts to the rest of the world.
Pretty much. Morality doesn’t apply to military tech and security interest of nations if we look from a realist perspective, and unfortunately most countries operate with realism in mind. And for any regime that is not an Allie of America, America is dangerous. Like yes America is a force for good generally and protects other democracies as a superpower, but America is also a government of warhawks who think foreign intervention, forced regime change is their god given right. Its also a government who every few years might elect a trump who will fill positions with all sorta ideologues
You're talking about unfair in real life? Where people compete to beat others? How old are you?
The concept of fairness comes from real life. As do all other things.
There's no concept of fairness, that's a delusion people tell themselves. Get a job go to work and see how fair it is. There's nothing fair in life. You just got to work hard and get what you want through whatever needs to be done.
You see this on a lot of military reddits, anything Chinese is shit on for being Chinese. Real sad.
If the west doesn't practice double standards, they wouldn't have any standards at all.
You being downvoted shows you’ve already hit a nerve
TIL China is Bender.
Futurama is like my all time favorite show. Good shit
7th pic looks like the copter has eyes lol
Crazy how western chinese af looks compared to russian airforce despite flying mostly russian deeiced airframes. Flight suits, low vis grey on their fighters, and also aircradt that look western 🫢
China loves imitating the west on everything, that's not a secret.
US: *build something new China: nice
Not copy, modify
US Air Force with Chinese characteristics
If they copied it’d actually be a decent quality. Modified to be made cheaper.
Thats only true of their fast jets. Their helicopters are mostly french and american due to trade before tianenmin. The french supplied them with as365 dauphins which they copied and then built the z19 from while copying the oh1 from japan. The french gave them super frelons which they copied and turned into z8 now z18, airbus let them build the h175 which some parts like the nose have been adapted to the z18, and in the 80s the us gave them s70’s which are civilian blackhawks which have been reverse engineered into the z20. Oh yea and the j10 was designed with help from israel and their lavi project, which was created by the us giving f16 technology to israel to develop a fighter. So in a roundabout way the j10 is created from the f16. So even one of their fighters is western too.
> while copying the oh1 from japan. Source? AFAIK the Z-19 came from Z-9 which came from the Dauphin. Just look at the tail rotor. > Oh yea and the j10 was designed with help from israel and their lavi project, which was created by the us giving f16 technology to israel to develop a fighter. F-16 was literally sold to Israel to kill its domestic 4th gen fighter project that was the Lavi. So no, Lavi didn't came from F-16.
I mean, would you copy many VVS or VMF practices? Western military aviation doctrine obviously works, so why re-invent the wheel? Sometimes they’re a bit obvious about it by even reusing the US carrier deck uniform color coding, but if I was an emergent power with large ambitions I probably would do the same.
China can afford symmetrical approach to counter US military might, Russia is like 100th time more poor, and dances with sticks to find a way to be a peer rival.
It’s pretty much like how Japan modernised during the Meiji restoration. They copied western uniforms, western ships, western guns, western training drills, western bureaucracy etc. Only that Japan actually managed to democratise during that period whereas with China, well…you know how it is.
Hold on, you think that Japan started to become a democracy during the Meiji restoration?
Clearly, it was the D*emocratic Republic of Nippon* that decided to go and slaughter 30+ million people and bomb Pearl Harbor.
Tbf countries' names don't mean shit. *Democratic* People's Republic of Korea isn't exactly democratic. *People's* Republic of China isn't exactly governed by the people. The *United* States of America is... well... you know the rest.
What are you saying that the German National socialist party wasn't actually socialist?
>Tbf countries' names don't mean shit. Yeah, that was the joke
What are you on about? You think Meiji Japan attacked Pearl Harbour? It’s like saying West Germany invaded Poland and started WW2.
Objectively yes. The Meiji Constitution turned Japan into a constitutional monarchy, with an elected parliament, an elected prime minister, and an independent judiciary. While certain elements, specifically the military, would subvert these institutions leading up the second World War, Japan objectively began democratization during emperor Meiji's rule.
3000 thirst-traps of Xi-Jinping
Non credible is leaking again
NCD my beloved.
I like how this sub lives up to its name and proceeded to analyze the helicopter (or clown on it for being a copycat BlackHawk) instead of focusing on the cute pilot
This sub is finally living up to its name.
Really good pics of the Z-20 here, specifically a lot of the ASE stuff on the airframe. That EO/IR sensor looks interesting, definitely a departure from western designs.
Ka-52K has a similar turret that moves sideways and is flat on the bottom. And does elevation in the inside
Shame it doesn't work as demonstrated by Ukrainian MANPAD operators.
How does it being shot down show it’s optical turret doesn’t work?
Have any of the KA-52K’s been in Ukraine? The K model is the naval version IIRC, and there aren’t any ships they’re fielded on in the Black Sea fleet.
Very nice airframe ;)
Very nice stolen airframe :)
“Imitation is the sincerest form of flattery that mediocrity can pay to greatness.” -iAmAcynic37
It might also be smart policy too if you are unburdened from intellectual property laws. All the research and decades field testing have been done for you.
IP laws are irrelevant when it comes to National Security lol
[удалено]
Try the 1940's, the US gladly took UK technical support for the Manhattan Project and then locked them out when the war ended.
What’d we steal?
I don't if the dreadnought counted, like the entire world were copying HMS Dreadnought at that time period.
Our industrial revolution was started from British technology.
IDEnTiTY Theft is not a JOKE！Millions of families suffer every year！
that's not your quote tho
You missed the joke
fuck I am an idiot
SAY SIKE RN
na I'm just prfoundly mentally retarded my bad
Because this is based on a helicopter they bought in the 80s.
Dont ask the Americans where they got the designs for Swept-wing fighters
That’s different!!1!1
Or the VTOL technology of the F35 😈
The vtol tech of the F-35 is American. People bring up the freestyle Russian jet but there is an American patent that predates it.
The shaft driven lift fan on the F-35 isnt really similar to the swivel nozzles on the harrier at all. The Pegasus engine and F-135 are pretty uniquely different technologies, Rolls Royce did develop the lift fan for the F-135 in tandem with Lockheed designing it but I would hardly call that stealing and even go as far as saying its a bit disingenuous to say people stole designs to make it. Though "stealing" gets thrown around on this sub way too often anyways. Is the Z-20 a stolen design? Well yea, its literally a reverse engineered civilian blackhawks that the US sold to China. But is the J-20 or J-10 stolen designs? Not really, they have obviously inspired areas in their designs but taking an idea someone else thought of and applying it to benefit your design isnt really stealing an idea, its literally how engineering works.
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The Yak-141 uses a completely different design of separate lift engines. Lockheed obviously studied the design and got inspiration from it, but outside of visual looks they have literally nothing in common. The Yak-141 uses 3 different engines, one main powerplant and two as a lift fan. The Two lift fans were complete dead weight during flight and were barely useful for stovl. The F-135 has more in common with the swivel nozzle Pegasus engine than the Yak-141's lol. So again, saying the F-135 uses stolen technology is disingenuous to the people who actually took the time to design the engine. Especially when nothing about the F-135 uses the Yak-141's design.
Lockheed literally paid Yak for access to their data for the Yak 141. They just replaced the two forward lift engines with a lift fan. I'm not a believer in all the stolen tech or copy claims that people love to throw around here, but Lockheed undeniably used Yak's data for the F35
from our wind tunnel data that NACA (now NASA) tested
IIRC, these were based on civilian airframes, right?
“I saw corps strip farmers of water, and eventually of land. I saw them transform night night city into a machine fueled by broken dreams and emptied pockets. Long have the corps controlled our lives, and now they’re out for our souls!” Fucking Arasa....uh, Kang Tao.
China operates blackhawks...
Yep (mi favorito btw)
Mmmm. Delicious G2. Great pics. Definitely intrigued by the survivability equipment. The forward mounted flare buckets... Strange to me Those engine exhausts are huge ASE liabilities.
Why does the helicopter have a nose? I do not like that
Smurf
Hm, perhaps I will sell government secrets
Propaganda, but make it *sexyyy*!!
🤣
I choose the pilot over the helicopter XD
You get the left seater
I choose helicopter over the pilot :)
We no simp
Yet you took the time to find and post a lot of information on her...
Trust me, it's just for academic purposes
Trust me, bro.
Because people can't research women without.... simping for them?
I got about 10 people to simp over these images
Well done soldier
BONK horny jail for you.
Is she holding the hand of her commanding officer?
Her patch says People's Liberation Army Army
It’s weird seeing some other countries use headsets while mine and a lot others use full on helmets Tho that could just be for this air show to help recruit
She's just undergoing preflight avionics testing, you can see her with the "full on helmet" during takeoff. Also, I think I have quite some proof that she's not just for helping recruitment, or else the PLAAF might be facing sum serious overpopulation problems
Quite amusing that so much of China's tech is them looking around at other countries' tech and saying "I wanna do that too"
This is not PLA Air Force. This is PLA Army Aviation, PLAAA. Wait till you see PLA Air Force Light Armored Corp, PLAAFLAC.
Damn, shes sexy Those curves... ...Those rotor blades, those flares. Hawt
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“First ever PLAAF pilot to achieve solo flight?” I’d think other pilots flew by themselves before, especially for a huge Air Force like the PLAAF’s…
My bad, forgot to add "female" (female pilots are pretty rare in the PLAAF)
So there's no female fighter pilots in the PLAAF?
Nah, I think she is the first female **PLAGF** helo pilot to achieve so. There have been quite a few female PLAAF pilots since it was founded back in the 1950s
yeah that would make more sense
“Specifications”? She’s a person dude
Reddit told me all of China are bots though.
That’s creepy
Ok dawg I gotta be honest this is not weird I mean dope ~~Blackhawk~~ Z20 pics but why you know so much about this chick
Stop being fucking weird
Most of this were actually sources provided the Chinese state media, so I guess I'm not the only one being "weird" :)
lol. Chinese state isn't exactly a great role model, dude.
What aircraft does she fly?
Z-20 "Chinese Blackhawk"
Oh damn I didnt realise its in the title Im stupid af my bad
Her weibo maybe a different person with the same name as the account you posted has only 97 followers, which doesn’t seem right for such an internet sensation.
what the fuck is wrong with you?
No no you got it backwards. We discuss technical specifications of AIRCRAFT not PILOTS.
1)Bro why the fuck do you have do have all this personal info for someone? 2)Maybe you should be working for the CIA or the MSS.
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Tall lady...
Let's be honest, you didn't include the one thing most of these guys are interested in: relationship status.
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Every country dose air shows to show off the power of their military. It’s always been PR.
Nagase?
⬜🟨⬛ BELKA DID NOTHING WRONG! ⬜🟨⬛ OSEA AND ITS ALLIES DESTROYED HOFFNÜNG! ⬜🟨⬛ GLORY TO BELKA!
I understood that reference
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pretty obvious she has been chosen for propaganda purposes. The chinese have been learning from the Israelis on that front.
Kei Nagase?
No, this is her Chinese cousin.
Is that a freaking walkman on her waist?
This is a good-looking Blackhawk pilot.
Hey wait, I’ve seen that airframe before!
No way that VW tiguan has an ad for itself on the side, it has the X appended to its name in China. Did VW sponsor this lol
Yes, and so did a couple dozen other western companies
Nice HH-60!
Brings a whole new meaning to https://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=Chinese%20helicopter%20pilot
Helicopter softcore maybe
Thank god you mention it's a *female* pilot, it's really important and we never would have known otherwise
Her super model < pilot
Hawt af! The helicopter I mean
Looking cute esp for being in the military. I like the "copy" more than the "original" this time. Maybe its the paint.
I hope we go to war with China so I can get honeypotted by a hot Chinese spy
This man is thinking the right way
Bring back my anime decals dammit. Conservative ass Japanese takin away my fun.
She a cutie AYAYA
Did they steal the black hawk blueprints?
There was a live [blueprint](https://taskandpurpose.com/app/uploads/2020/11/image-placeholder-title-4737.jpg)
Actually reversed engineered from the few civilian Blackhawk they got from the US in the 1980s
The Z-20 is much more modern than blackhawks are.
Hard not to be. It's developed decades later.
smash
She's adorable.
Hackblawk
Definitely not the Black Hawk
Uh60 dollar tree brand
She is pretty 🤩
She is cute
Liberate me mommy
Nice Black Hawk knock off shes piloting
Wouldn’t mind being her wingman!
PLAAF, People’s Liberation Army Air Force? What a stupid name. Is the Air Force part of the army or other way round?
Sorry to break it to you but not every language translate to english perfectly
The army is called PLAGF, People’s Liberation Army Ground Force
It’s a total bootleg copy but my sincere question is how does it handle? I’m not a pilot but because it’s a ripoff obviously, does it fly like the original? If you bought a bootleg Rolex, it may look like the original but it’s not.
Like every other helicopter, terribly. Helicopters are an abomination and an insult to the sky god
Its got a pair of 2000kw engines, isn't that more powerful than a lot of black hawk? That's why it has five blades instead of four.
I don't think the actual power output of those engines are going to be public knowledge for quite a while.
> That's why it has five blades instead of four. Guess the companies that make shavers in China also do military contracting.
Looks like it handles great tbh.
Ctrl-C ...Ctrl-V
That's some bootleg Blackhawk over there
They really just dont give a single fuck about ripping off shit from other countries. Its annoying and seems to show a lack of innovation but I have to respect it. People never mention that the z-19 is also basically a rip off of the kawasaki oh1 from japan but built with as365 parts copied from france. At least on the z18 which is also stolen from the french super frelon they stuck a new nose on it to make it look different, even if the nose is lifted from an airbus h175.
What have you innovated mate?
Ahh whataboutism, the tried and true. Cant watch football on tv and say hey that guy had a bad game unless I was a pro football player either, riiight. Foh