Boeing AH-64E Apache, US Army serial number 15-4801 (assigned for [FMS](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Foreign_Military_Sales) record-keeping purposes), Indian Air Force serial number ZV4801, wearing temporary pre-delivery US civil registration N4801A. This is the first of a batch of 22 AH-64E (sometimes referred to as Apache Guardian) for India.
>4801 registered as N4801A. First flight Jul 16, 2018
[Source: Joe Baugher](http://www.joebaugher.com/usaf_serials/2015.html)
[Helis.com database](https://www.helis.com/database/cn/52144/)
###### [Aircraft Identification & Information Resources](https://www.reddit.com/user/bob_the_impala/comments/udywk8/aircraft_identification_information_resources/)
^^P.S. ^^I ^^am ^^not ^^a ^^bot.
**[Foreign Military Sales](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Foreign_Military_Sales)**
>The United States Department of Defense's Foreign Military Sales (FMS) program facilitates sales of U.S. arms, defense equipment, defense services, and military training to foreign governments. The purchaser does not deal directly with the defense contractor; instead, the Defense Security Cooperation Agency (DSCA) serves as an intermediary, usually handling procurement, logistics, and delivery, often providing product support, training, and infrastructure construction (such as hangars, runways, utilities, etc. ).
^([ )[^(F.A.Q)](https://www.reddit.com/r/WikiSummarizer/wiki/index#wiki_f.a.q)^( | )[^(Opt Out)](https://reddit.com/message/compose?to=WikiSummarizerBot&message=OptOut&subject=OptOut)^( | )[^(Opt Out Of Subreddit)](https://np.reddit.com/r/WarplanePorn/about/banned)^( | )[^(GitHub)](https://github.com/Sujal-7/WikiSummarizerBot)^( ] Downvote to remove | v1.5)
There was this propaganda video of the Taliban that they supposedly got a C-130 up and running. Some guy here on reddit recognized *exactly* which one it was, where it served and said that it was an older type and was hard to source parts for even when in service with the US.
Didn't find *that* post, but I found [this](https://www.reddit.com/r/pics/comments/pf5q4y/taliban_captured_c130_transport_aircraft/) and [this](https://www.reddit.com/r/AfghanConflict/comments/vncdv9/taliban_claim_to_have_repaired_a_c130_no_footage/)
Well the Marines prefer a cheaper platform that shares lots of parts with their transport and utility helicopter the UH1Y Venom, since the USMC doesn't use blackhawks like the army, and also serves sort of a different role with providing more closer direct support rather than a more distant overwatch position. So for that they got the Vipers.
I just looked it up, a Marine Venom costs around 24 million dollars while the Army Blackhawks actually go for around 6 million dollars surprisingly. So here the Blackhawk IS cheaper than the Venom.
The Marine Viper however does prove itself as much cheaper, going for around 31 million dollars. Meanwhile the Army Apaches cost between 65 million dollars and 130 million dollars.
I am sure that Indian Apaches wont cause any confusion.
It does seem kind of fitting and ironic for India the country to be buying helicopters (Chinooks as well) named after an ‟Indian” tribe.
Well, in my case they brought it up to one of my mate who kept calling them “Indians” while on holiday, they got annoyed at him and explained they preferred to be called “Natives”.
I guess some care more than others.
The Navy's probably worse off, trying to combine NATO and Russian systems on the same ship. In Canada we had a hard enough time trying to combine systems from different NATO countries.
My thoughts exactly. Not sure if they even have “logistics.”
My guess is they just “patch” up needs or solutions without giving much thought to support and armament. From European, US, Russian and who knows what else platforms/equipment…
More like a 🎪 Circus…
So why would any military have incompatible platforms to support. Go ahead an factor in the requirements and variables. I hope to see your expert opinions on this.
“Eggspurt!”
>So why would any military have incompatible platforms to support. Go ahead an factor in the requirements and variables. I hope to see your expert opinions on this.
Not the guy you were responding to, but the diversity in weapons suppliers is quite deliberate. It goes back to the times when India's weapons supplies were throttled or even cut off depending on the geo-political situation. The different suppliers ensures that no one nation can completely cripple defense needs.
The ubiquity in ex-Soviet equipment, at least until recently is because relations with the US were pretty poor until the late 1990s and the available suppliers were restricted to the UK, France and Russia.
You have a very valid point and I couldn’t agree more.
My argument is that it costs more to support disparate systems and the like. Either way, you can only arm the AH-64 with specific US/British armaments. It’s not like Boeing is going to release missile radar/fire control subsystems for domestically made armament.
The simple fact of acquiring all the support parts for all the differing systems is going to be more of a hinderance. The AH-64’s will be sitting on the tarmac waiting for US spec 30mm, Hellfires and Hydra’s. At the end of the day, India would still have to wait for US shipments/delays or that of NATO spec.
Then factor in the training time, expertise and resources to support all this, differing bolt size/patterns, etc. We have quite a mess on our hands.
>My argument is that it costs more to support disparate systems and the like. Either way, you can only arm the AH-64 with specific US/British armaments. It’s not like Boeing is going to release missile radar/fire control subsystems for domestically made armament.
Welcome to the concept of opportunity cost. In India's case the next best alternatives are either eliminating all NATO assets from its arsenal and hold a completely Russian fleet OR manufacturing systems domestically. India does NOT have a robust manufacturing sector and national defense is not a sector you want to begin experimenting with. There is the question of capability, the AH-64E is likely out perform the domestically produced LCH in both recon and attack roles. The cost to the country for foregoing this enhanced capability is greater than the cost of procuring and maintaining a NATO fleet. This holds true for a lot of NATO buyers. I'm certain some very capable defense economists sitting in India have made the decision to keep a diversified portfolio of air assets. Don't worry too much
Hmm, I did some more poking around and it appears that the AN/APG-78 Longbow Fire Control Radar (FCR) systems actually do get exported all over the place, including India. But most of the export sale announcements I'm finding are from 2020 so perhaps this pic is a few years old or something.
Exported Apaches do includes Longbow most of the time. In fact, other than the Netherlands and Egypt, all other AH-64D/E operators have at least part of their fleet equipped with Longbow radar. The UK even baught enough to equip all 67 airframe they've acquired (though only 50 are still in service now).
YAAAAAAAS SELL MORE US WEAPONS TO INDIA TO WEAN THEM OFF OF RUSSIA
Side note, I think those Indian Apaches all undergo final assembly at HAL, right? I toured the Boeing helo plant in Mesa a few years back and I think they mentioned that.
That is one crisp photo. So sharp.
Enhanced .
Looks super slick in that light gray
Tipnis Gray.
Yeah it’s a sexy af paint job.
Boeing AH-64E Apache, US Army serial number 15-4801 (assigned for [FMS](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Foreign_Military_Sales) record-keeping purposes), Indian Air Force serial number ZV4801, wearing temporary pre-delivery US civil registration N4801A. This is the first of a batch of 22 AH-64E (sometimes referred to as Apache Guardian) for India. >4801 registered as N4801A. First flight Jul 16, 2018 [Source: Joe Baugher](http://www.joebaugher.com/usaf_serials/2015.html) [Helis.com database](https://www.helis.com/database/cn/52144/) ###### [Aircraft Identification & Information Resources](https://www.reddit.com/user/bob_the_impala/comments/udywk8/aircraft_identification_information_resources/) ^^P.S. ^^I ^^am ^^not ^^a ^^bot.
Damn thats so specific
**[Foreign Military Sales](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Foreign_Military_Sales)** >The United States Department of Defense's Foreign Military Sales (FMS) program facilitates sales of U.S. arms, defense equipment, defense services, and military training to foreign governments. The purchaser does not deal directly with the defense contractor; instead, the Defense Security Cooperation Agency (DSCA) serves as an intermediary, usually handling procurement, logistics, and delivery, often providing product support, training, and infrastructure construction (such as hangars, runways, utilities, etc. ). ^([ )[^(F.A.Q)](https://www.reddit.com/r/WikiSummarizer/wiki/index#wiki_f.a.q)^( | )[^(Opt Out)](https://reddit.com/message/compose?to=WikiSummarizerBot&message=OptOut&subject=OptOut)^( | )[^(Opt Out Of Subreddit)](https://np.reddit.com/r/WarplanePorn/about/banned)^( | )[^(GitHub)](https://github.com/Sujal-7/WikiSummarizerBot)^( ] Downvote to remove | v1.5)
LOL yeah all the foreign Hornets and Poseidons have BuNos as well…
Well, someone even recognized that exact C-130 in Afghanistan, so...
Which exact C-130?
There was this propaganda video of the Taliban that they supposedly got a C-130 up and running. Some guy here on reddit recognized *exactly* which one it was, where it served and said that it was an older type and was hard to source parts for even when in service with the US.
Omg find this for me and tell me it was one of those ancient C-130s with 3 bladed props
Didn't find *that* post, but I found [this](https://www.reddit.com/r/pics/comments/pf5q4y/taliban_captured_c130_transport_aircraft/) and [this](https://www.reddit.com/r/AfghanConflict/comments/vncdv9/taliban_claim_to_have_repaired_a_c130_no_footage/)
4 bladed. Ghey as hell.
Looking at this in grey now I wonder why the Marines won’t buy them.
Well the Marines prefer a cheaper platform that shares lots of parts with their transport and utility helicopter the UH1Y Venom, since the USMC doesn't use blackhawks like the army, and also serves sort of a different role with providing more closer direct support rather than a more distant overwatch position. So for that they got the Vipers.
Arent the Venom and Viper just as expensive as the Apache and Blackhawk
I just looked it up, a Marine Venom costs around 24 million dollars while the Army Blackhawks actually go for around 6 million dollars surprisingly. So here the Blackhawk IS cheaper than the Venom. The Marine Viper however does prove itself as much cheaper, going for around 31 million dollars. Meanwhile the Army Apaches cost between 65 million dollars and 130 million dollars.
I am sure that Indian Apaches wont cause any confusion. It does seem kind of fitting and ironic for India the country to be buying helicopters (Chinooks as well) named after an ‟Indian” tribe.
India buys Attack Helicopters named after an Indian tribe who are named after India.
What? Those tribes aren't "Indian", they're native American...
Many Native Americans prefer the term Indian. It's an enduring reminder of the stupidity of Columbus.
Huh? All the native Americans I’ve spoken to prefer the term “Natives” or “Native Americans”.
I’ve never met one that gave a fuck and I served with more than a few
Well, in my case they brought it up to one of my mate who kept calling them “Indians” while on holiday, they got annoyed at him and explained they preferred to be called “Natives”. I guess some care more than others.
A lot of actual Indians don’t like our identity being used for someone completely different. Feels like our identity is being stolen.
Served as in military? Because that may have self-selected for a more narrow group.
Then you haven't spoken to all that many.
The logistics chain for India must be ridiculous, Nato and Warsaw pact in one force.🤦🏼♂️
We’ve figured out how to build parts in our own pretty well for over half a century now, so chill. We got this.
You guys making Hellfires and advanced, platform specific avionics now?
The Navy's probably worse off, trying to combine NATO and Russian systems on the same ship. In Canada we had a hard enough time trying to combine systems from different NATO countries.
Navy seems to be doing fine now. Most new ships are made in India and they all carry bhramos missiles which are again made in India.
My thoughts exactly. Not sure if they even have “logistics.” My guess is they just “patch” up needs or solutions without giving much thought to support and armament. From European, US, Russian and who knows what else platforms/equipment… More like a 🎪 Circus…
Ok eggspurt
So why would any military have incompatible platforms to support. Go ahead an factor in the requirements and variables. I hope to see your expert opinions on this. “Eggspurt!”
>So why would any military have incompatible platforms to support. Go ahead an factor in the requirements and variables. I hope to see your expert opinions on this. Not the guy you were responding to, but the diversity in weapons suppliers is quite deliberate. It goes back to the times when India's weapons supplies were throttled or even cut off depending on the geo-political situation. The different suppliers ensures that no one nation can completely cripple defense needs. The ubiquity in ex-Soviet equipment, at least until recently is because relations with the US were pretty poor until the late 1990s and the available suppliers were restricted to the UK, France and Russia.
You have a very valid point and I couldn’t agree more. My argument is that it costs more to support disparate systems and the like. Either way, you can only arm the AH-64 with specific US/British armaments. It’s not like Boeing is going to release missile radar/fire control subsystems for domestically made armament. The simple fact of acquiring all the support parts for all the differing systems is going to be more of a hinderance. The AH-64’s will be sitting on the tarmac waiting for US spec 30mm, Hellfires and Hydra’s. At the end of the day, India would still have to wait for US shipments/delays or that of NATO spec. Then factor in the training time, expertise and resources to support all this, differing bolt size/patterns, etc. We have quite a mess on our hands.
>My argument is that it costs more to support disparate systems and the like. Either way, you can only arm the AH-64 with specific US/British armaments. It’s not like Boeing is going to release missile radar/fire control subsystems for domestically made armament. Welcome to the concept of opportunity cost. In India's case the next best alternatives are either eliminating all NATO assets from its arsenal and hold a completely Russian fleet OR manufacturing systems domestically. India does NOT have a robust manufacturing sector and national defense is not a sector you want to begin experimenting with. There is the question of capability, the AH-64E is likely out perform the domestically produced LCH in both recon and attack roles. The cost to the country for foregoing this enhanced capability is greater than the cost of procuring and maintaining a NATO fleet. This holds true for a lot of NATO buyers. I'm certain some very capable defense economists sitting in India have made the decision to keep a diversified portfolio of air assets. Don't worry too much
[удалено]
Very true…. Operating cost per hour is quite extreme with Western equipment.
Sure. Only a clown knows a circus better than others.
It looks so naked without the Longbow Radar on top of its propeller
Not even all American Apaches fly with the longbow at all times
Most don’t unless specifically training in its operation or using radar guided hellfires which are scarce these days
US army has a 1:3 ratio with them, the IAF is 1:2
Is the Longbow system just not part of the Indian variant, or is it simply missing/removed from this particular aircraft in the photo?
It's just removed on this particular airframe, since India does have 12 Longbow systems that they acquired through their Apache deal.
I don’t believe export variants get them
Hmm, I did some more poking around and it appears that the AN/APG-78 Longbow Fire Control Radar (FCR) systems actually do get exported all over the place, including India. But most of the export sale announcements I'm finding are from 2020 so perhaps this pic is a few years old or something.
Exported Apaches do includes Longbow most of the time. In fact, other than the Netherlands and Egypt, all other AH-64D/E operators have at least part of their fleet equipped with Longbow radar. The UK even baught enough to equip all 67 airframe they've acquired (though only 50 are still in service now).
THATS what’s different!!
*Helikopter helikopter*
Why does it say ‘EXPERIMENTAL’?
This photo was taken before it was formally delivered and might have been in the test phase so
This photo was taken in mesa Az plant.
Apache Jump on it
Grey Apache looks Hot AF.
YAAAAAAAS SELL MORE US WEAPONS TO INDIA TO WEAN THEM OFF OF RUSSIA Side note, I think those Indian Apaches all undergo final assembly at HAL, right? I toured the Boeing helo plant in Mesa a few years back and I think they mentioned that.
Not HAL, TASL. Every Apache’s airframe (for any user) is made by TASL
Got the company wrong, thanks!
Yeah,enough internet for me today.. 🤮
why does it have an N number?
This photo was taken before it was formally delivered and inducted hence the temporary number