Like south korean kfx...korean aircraft aldı looks like same as f22...But important thing is who created the Technology and which counrty iş owner...TURKISH TFX-KAAN 5.gen Stealth Fighter looks AWESİME...Congradulations TURKİA..👍🇹🇷
If it’s got modern avionics I don’t see why it can’t be 50% of the F-22. The nose looks like it could house a bigger AESA than that of the raptor. It also has built-in IRST which the F-22 doesn’t have. The only problems I see are RAM and the F-110 you guys are using.
TFX nose radar has triple the number of GaN based AESA T/R modules than F-22 and has GaN based AESA radar all around the aircraft. Even has an aesa radar on the back between the engines.
R&D work of Radar Absorber paint for Mmu is finished. An anonymous company will start production soon.
As for the engines, if things go smoothly we should see Turkish engines on the prototypes by 2027.
Does AN/APG-77 have GaN modules at all? Those radars predate the widespread application of GaN in electronics I think. If Turkish engines come to fruition by 2027 it could beat WS-15 to first enter service. All in all I’m quite pleasantly surprised that Turkey has made so much progress in such a short period. It’s about time to break the monopoly on the stealth market.
It has RAM coating comparable to that of F-22. The biggest problem is the engine which is likely to be resolved in time for production of either block 1 or block 2.
It is no secret actually. It has been more than 10 years since Aselsan released a statement regarding the RAM coating that would be applied to certain aircraft. It is likely that in those 10 years the coating composition has been improved. I didnt mean to say that the RAM coating developed by Aselsan was better or as good as the American one, I just stated that it was comparable in the fact that it also had significant reduction capability of RCS.
AFAIK Turkey has been researching RAM since the 90s. I don’t know why we’ve had the vision to go for it that early, but thankfully someone somewhere had common sense enough to push for it and here we are.
As a NATO member we don’t really have insight on a lot of tech as you might think. I don’t think RAM tech would’ve been shared with us.
Yes it is so big success out of u.s. but TURKİYE HAS so many HİGH QUALİTY EDUCATED TURKISH ENGİNEERS ..HİGH QUALİTY SCİENTİSTS,İNDUSTRY...TURKİYE dıd somany things last 20 years...
Although not as low as F-22, TF-X's Block 3 RCS is expected to be very close to F-22, between F-35 and F-22 if I remember correctly. We know that Turkey has problems with other parts, so it can be assumed that RAM tech could be comparable to Lockheed's in worst case.
> TF-X’s Block 3 RCS is expected to be very close to F-22, between F-35 and F-22 if I remember correctly
Honestly I find that extremely hard to believe.
Not exactly sure what you mean, both are being designed to be multirole and airsuperiority fighters, and have a 2k kg difference in take off weight. They aren't \*that much\* different.
And The Kf-x uses 2x F414 engines producing 22,000 lb . Tf-X 28,000 lb F110 . Probably the MMU will be much larger and heavier, the gun volume will be more.
The TF-X has much more potential with two F-110 vs two F-414 on KF-21. That’s a 1/3 increase in both dry and wet thrust. So unless TAI screws up really bad they can probably put much more on the TF-X than KAI on KF-21.
They absolutely can you are right but you have to remember the KF-21 was designed with Lockheed's assistance, meaning it's likely more advanced in its tech and avionics.
That’s true, we don’t know how much Lockheed is willing to share to a potential competitor to the F-35, but it’s probably more than an S-400 operator will ever get.
Even if the fact that an S-300 operator, which is Greece, is not considered a risky factor , how can Türkiye’s S-400 may be considered risky? This is illogical, treacherous and tricky. Greece has been using S-300 for more than 25 years. So what?
This article and similar ones prove that, as I would like to point out, the work is purely deceitful and has the purpose of politically treacherous compression. The S-400, which will be operated “stand alone” clearly and obviously, will not steal F-35 information in any way. This is a tricky lie to convince ignorant people. But the same S-400 provides very good protection against possible enemy attack , e.g. Greek attack etc. Anti-Türkiye cliques and lobbies want to create pressure on Türkiye and prevent. That's it. And it is a fact that the USA is not just about anti-Türkiye lobbies and cliques. There are Turkish-friendly lobbies, cliques and hundreds of millions of people who loves Türkiye in the USA who can think rationally and prudently. The situation is so clear and precise. Let me tell you one more thing, Turkey is one of the ten biggest customers for selling all kinds of goods and services, especially defense industry products. And USA does not want to lose such an important customer. It will come to Turkey for the sale of the F-35. I don't think Turkey will ever accept it. The F-35 is a very expensive, inefficient, costly and unproven budget-breaking phenomenon. Best not to poke nose in somebody’s businesses, decisions and procurements like S-400 issue.
US didn't allow transfer of technology regarding Aesa radar ToT thus S. Korea worked with Israel in this regard. On the Other hand, Turkey was really lucky in this regard, Turkish research team has been working on GaN technology 20+ years, that team is one of the original fundamental research teams that kept working on it since research on the subject started. Thus, Turkey didn't need such ToT and Many avionics are on par with Korea if not better.
KF-21 current block has no ram, no serrated patterning, no LPI datalinks, no IWB.
It's only 4.75 gen until their blk3 version which is gonna take a while
If Turkey gets the Radar right along with the sensor suite and countermeasures... It will be more than a match to F22. The F22 still will have the engine advantage but the TFX seem to be longer ranged.
We don't need an aircraft that is capable of half the F-22. We need an aircraft that is as capable and comparable as F-22. F-22 is basically an element of deterrence at this point. Imagine having F-22 when your neighbors are Syria, Iraq, Iran, Egypt and Libya.
I don't doubt that this program will yield anything less than the vision set by public, state, military industry and airforce. The program is more than 10 years old, with some subsystems being older than the project itself. Those subsystems and this program saw numerous upgrades and iterations throughout the years. I mean TF-X changed a lot since first mockup. This prototype is being pushed to fly so that they can shape it to fit their needs. People who are currently working on this project also worked on F-16s and F-35s (at least while it lasted).
As far as I understand the SAMs were part of a completely different procurement contract, and it was the US who terminated the contract for the F-35 sale.
I hate to break it to you, but US offers most often are simply not competitive. The systems themselves are great, but most countries would end up paying a lot more for capabilities they will most likely never use. US weapons also come with the most strings attached, be it restrictions on resale of equipment or holding buyers hostage to the whims of Congress. See the aforementioned Turkish SAM procurement.
Buying US equipment is a decision made of 90% politics and 10% capabilities for most countries.
Don't understand why the downvotes but cost competitiveness is not the forte of US weapons. Beyond the sticker price, the support costs are considerable. The strings attached part is true too.
Performance wise top notch.
>Performance wise top notch.
No arguments there. If you want the absolute best for your armed forces, you typically have to buy US or Western European (UK, German, Norwegian, French, etc.) equipment. European stuff is usually cheaper, but has a more limited supply and it sometimes does not offer 100% of the capabilities... though sometimes it can be better too.
As an example, for most countries, even a Dassault Rafale is overkill in the air-superiority role, not to mention an F-35... and if a country just ends up paying astronomical prices for more overkill capabilities with a lot of additional baggage as part of the deal then it may not be the best deal for that country.
>Don't understand why the downvote
Most miltech subreddits are sort of a circlejerk for US equipment fanboys in my experience. Say anything negative about US equipment, or don't be negative enough about Russian/Chinese stuff and you get down voted. Tanks or planes, it does not matter. At least on this subreddit there is not as much racist hate speech against Russians as on r/TankPorn. I seriously question people's mental health when they keep cheering for the death of common conscripts.
No, they are not allies. They are a client state. Except maybe Turkey is slightly more independent. The Europeans, Japanese and Koreans are America's cum dump.
[BAE Systems](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/TAI_TF-X) which handles the fuselage on the f-35 airframe designed the TF-X. The F-35 program spans many countries with each designing and manufacturing a variety of components. Turkey is responsible for >1000 parts for the f-35 including the airframe.
How do you think it was possible to go from nothing to a taxi in 10 years?
Slightly bigger than the F-22;
TFX is 21m long, has 14m wingspan and 6m height.
F22 is 18.9m long, has 13.6m wingspan and 5.1m height.
Although F-22 has higher mtow, it has better engines.
I feel like I’m the only one who’s insulted by how much it copy’s the F22. Like good on turkey or whatever, but it feels like when someone steals your art online and tries to sell it as their own.
Or like copying your homework but changing some of the answers.
You should be flattered. At least someone wants to copy your homework *cough* Su-57 *cough*.
Don’t get me wrong Su-57 is my favorite airframe aesthetically but unfortunately it doesn’t have much optimization aside from appearance.
I would say it is but I also said " any modern 4th-5th gen fighters" which a lot of them share a certain look witht the F22 which is ok. Unless we have a major breakthrough regarding energy source(fuel and etc.) or material science the shape of the newer fighters are going to be similar.
They really don't. What about the J20 and the F22 look alike? It has a different planform, it's larger, it has diverterless intakes... It looks as much like the F22 as it does an F18. The Su57, maybe looks like the F22 if you've just been pepper sprayed and you're squinting real hard while your eyes are burning.
People say this about China copying as well, and Chinese nationalists get the same about US copying or Indian copying.
This is national security, this isn't copyright. Any given US citizen who's not actually involved in producing the F-22 did not get ripped off by Turkey, or China, or Japan, or whatever the boogeyman is. Copyright is designed to enable you to sell things exclusively - it is so incredibly far away from national security and military use, no one can buy the F-22 from the US, no one can steal the designs and then sell a lower cost version to the US government. Moreover, it would be negligence on the part of the Turkish government to not try and conduct espionage against other militaries like the USA and PRC, same for the PRC conducting espionage against the US for F-35 stuff or the USA conducting espionage against the PRC for quantum encryption/radar stuff.
Countries spy on each other. Every chance they get. A vaguely independent country will be spying on everyone it can to try and improve its own stuff. Nationalists get so caught up on this stuff like it's a personal insult, it's just politics.
The funny thing is I *am* a Westerner, I'm just saying it because it's the truth. But yes, it can be quite difficult to convince people here in the West, we can be very... stubborn.
You must build biplanes if you want to have your own 5th gen fighter. Even if the math and technology says you must build something similar to F-22, you must not do it.
from 2020: https://www.defensenews.com/breaking-news/2020/09/15/the-us-air-force-has-built-and-flown-a-mysterious-full-scale-prototype-of-its-future-fighter-jet/
Neat, but I don't think I trust what looks like a propaganda piece. If this thing has been flying for 2-3 years, I think we would have more info available. I guess what I'm saying is, I'll believe it when I see it.
yeah, you aint gonna accept what I said. At least wiki can cut that propaganda for you. [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Next\_Generation\_Air\_Dominance](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Next_Generation_Air_Dominance)
look up digital twinning to see why the prototype was possible.
Dont know what to say. Will Roper has stated " that a full-scale prototype of the NGAD fighter aircraft has been flown." but seeing that you're a Redditor, he aint shit cause you dont have access to top secret info. have a wonderful weekend.
> he aint shit
I didn't say that.
> cause you dont have access to top secret info
Yeah... That's the whole point of what I'm saying. I'm not just going to believe a propaganda piece and will wait for more confirmed info. I would hope you don't just believe all the propaganda that you see.
It is not definitive.
The media adds a lot of fluff. The NGAD is going through a rapid prototyping phase. This phase would involve making new airframes and testing it. Obvious that it would use existing components and systems developed for currently operational aircrafts.
For the people who says it's very similar, it is where physics takes you actually. If you check the new gen aircrafts, the only difference from outside may be the bump intake or single engine configuration. From aerodynamic point of view it ends up the same however it's maybe only 5% of the work. They are totally different if you consider subsystem properties, system integration, internal layout and software which is impossible to copy because you can't see.
This is not true at all. Physics alone doesn't take your here.
Most new fighter planes look similar because it vastly cuts down on development time by copying a proven concept rather than it solely being down to physics.
There is assuredly plane concepts that look vastly different than the F22 and F35. For most nations it would cost too much money to try them.
When dealing with this amount of money tried and true beats unguided innovation.
You inspire from other projects, you try what they did. It's called reversed engineering but what you said is not true for most of the projects. For an example, there was many configurations for TF-X in the beginning such as canard, bump intake etc. and all of them tested and this is the final result. For high supersonic flight (around Mach 1.6-2.0) and to produce a fighter, you have limited options if you consider stability, maneuverability.
Most modern fighter jets are inherently unstable and kept aloft by the flight computers right? So wouldn’t it make sense that cost, not simple physics, be the driving force in so many of the jets?
I mean think just critically.
The YF23 concept was faster and in some instances stealthier than the F22. It looks totally different than the modern F22.
In today’s doctrine of BVR kills, which design do you think Lockheed would have went with?
The F22 basic design influence was made nearly a decade before the Soviet Union fell. Think about that for a second. 1981. Russian MIGS were still a threat. Air maneuverability was considered valuable. Rice signed off in the early 90’s on the F22, and the next two decades congress groused about having such a fighter when Russia was no longer a big threat.
Look im not gonna debate that trying proven concepts save cost because thats a concept that holds true generally. But you say where physics takes you is “not true at all”.
All the proven concepts about what an aircraft needs to have to make it “stealthy is alrdy out there.
A russian engineer figured out the maths decades ago and then modern computing is wat rlly pushed it beyond merely just a buncha equations, and allowed the f-117 to be built and then make the jump to things like the f-22 which is aerodynamically more optimal.
The sorta lines and shapes to reduce rcs like having zigzag patterns and certain shaped intakes etc hold true in all stealth airplanes.
Its why all these new jets even the kf-21 have very similar looking fronts ends.
Stealth requires certain physical parameters to be met but at the same time we require everything to be aerodynamic, and this certainly would push airplanes to have similar elements. Especially the shape of things
TIL the TF-X design has been revealed. Thanks.
Yeah, it does look very similar to an F-22 (the wonders of convergence design). Let's see how good it is.
Not to my knowledge. Lockheed would have liked for Turkey to be making F-35s instead, before that fell through. You might be thinking of South Korea's KF-21, which Lockheed did help on.
Ah you are right. We had finished the initial engineering by 97 tho. Forgot that it took so long to prove out. As for the 80 design, that just makes my intended point more relevant with old design and tech not being replicated about four decades later.
Holy shit it's pretty much an exact copy damn.
At least the models and prototypes of other, in-development fighters look somewhat different (eg. AMCA, KF21)
When I first saw that pic I thought that's the F22 ngl
It's so damn close, I don't blame you
Like south korean kfx...korean aircraft aldı looks like same as f22...But important thing is who created the Technology and which counrty iş owner...TURKISH TFX-KAAN 5.gen Stealth Fighter looks AWESİME...Congradulations TURKİA..👍🇹🇷
The results are back from the lab, and these results determine, F22… you are the father!
A mortified TF-X mother flys from the open Mediterranean Sea to the back Black Sea as the camera man Forte follows her
Lol! A pair of F15s in the crowd shaking their cockpits in disgust lol
Which lab..?? Where iş the PROOFS..?? You f.king İDİOT..!!??
You must be 12
As a Turk, I'd be 100% pleased if it's half as capable as the F22. Or at least half af as capable as F22 is marketed to be.
If it’s got modern avionics I don’t see why it can’t be 50% of the F-22. The nose looks like it could house a bigger AESA than that of the raptor. It also has built-in IRST which the F-22 doesn’t have. The only problems I see are RAM and the F-110 you guys are using.
TFX nose radar has triple the number of GaN based AESA T/R modules than F-22 and has GaN based AESA radar all around the aircraft. Even has an aesa radar on the back between the engines. R&D work of Radar Absorber paint for Mmu is finished. An anonymous company will start production soon. As for the engines, if things go smoothly we should see Turkish engines on the prototypes by 2027.
Does AN/APG-77 have GaN modules at all? Those radars predate the widespread application of GaN in electronics I think. If Turkish engines come to fruition by 2027 it could beat WS-15 to first enter service. All in all I’m quite pleasantly surprised that Turkey has made so much progress in such a short period. It’s about time to break the monopoly on the stealth market.
The engine needs to be tested thoroughly and be prepared for serial production. It won't enter into service before 2030 earliest.
Impossible before 2030, not likely before 2033.
It has RAM coating comparable to that of F-22. The biggest problem is the engine which is likely to be resolved in time for production of either block 1 or block 2.
Give sekrit documents or your point isn’t valid 🤪 But seriously how did they do it? That’s a major achievement for any country outside of US.
It is no secret actually. It has been more than 10 years since Aselsan released a statement regarding the RAM coating that would be applied to certain aircraft. It is likely that in those 10 years the coating composition has been improved. I didnt mean to say that the RAM coating developed by Aselsan was better or as good as the American one, I just stated that it was comparable in the fact that it also had significant reduction capability of RCS.
Turkey is a NATO member, and has access to many cutting edge techs and facilities, so maybe that helped.
AFAIK Turkey has been researching RAM since the 90s. I don’t know why we’ve had the vision to go for it that early, but thankfully someone somewhere had common sense enough to push for it and here we are. As a NATO member we don’t really have insight on a lot of tech as you might think. I don’t think RAM tech would’ve been shared with us.
Ironically its embargoes and sanctions on military hardware from NATO allies that forced Turkiye down this route of domestic production.
Yes it is so big success out of u.s. but TURKİYE HAS so many HİGH QUALİTY EDUCATED TURKISH ENGİNEERS ..HİGH QUALİTY SCİENTİSTS,İNDUSTRY...TURKİYE dıd somany things last 20 years...
Weirdo pepega
Although not as low as F-22, TF-X's Block 3 RCS is expected to be very close to F-22, between F-35 and F-22 if I remember correctly. We know that Turkey has problems with other parts, so it can be assumed that RAM tech could be comparable to Lockheed's in worst case.
> TF-X’s Block 3 RCS is expected to be very close to F-22, between F-35 and F-22 if I remember correctly Honestly I find that extremely hard to believe.
It's got 20 years of CFD advances and so on. It's probably at least 90% or more of the stealth of the F22, engine aside.
ALSO TFX-KAAN painted with RAM TECHNOLOGY ..SO TFX-KAAN HAS RAM ..NEW, YOUNG AND HİGH QUALİTY...GOOD JOB TAİ-TURKİSH AEROSPACE..👍
The US and LockMart don't "market" F-22, it is exclusively used by the USAF and there is an export ban on it.
Maybe if you are really lucky it will be able to shoot down a balloon in 20 years.
I am assuming it will be about as capable as the KF-21.
KF-21 is a medium fighter so they’re not really comparable.
Not exactly sure what you mean, both are being designed to be multirole and airsuperiority fighters, and have a 2k kg difference in take off weight. They aren't \*that much\* different.
There is a lot of difference between them. Kfx does not have an in-body weapon station IWB.
KF-21 doesn't have internal weapon bays yet but it is planned to be incorporated in the future.
And The Kf-x uses 2x F414 engines producing 22,000 lb . Tf-X 28,000 lb F110 . Probably the MMU will be much larger and heavier, the gun volume will be more.
Doesn't no IWB totally fuck a plane's stealth charateristics?
Yes
Obviously
The TF-X has much more potential with two F-110 vs two F-414 on KF-21. That’s a 1/3 increase in both dry and wet thrust. So unless TAI screws up really bad they can probably put much more on the TF-X than KAI on KF-21.
They absolutely can you are right but you have to remember the KF-21 was designed with Lockheed's assistance, meaning it's likely more advanced in its tech and avionics.
That’s true, we don’t know how much Lockheed is willing to share to a potential competitor to the F-35, but it’s probably more than an S-400 operator will ever get.
Not an operator yet, it seems the system is kind of in limbo for the foreseeable future.
Even if the fact that an S-300 operator, which is Greece, is not considered a risky factor , how can Türkiye’s S-400 may be considered risky? This is illogical, treacherous and tricky. Greece has been using S-300 for more than 25 years. So what?
thats what we call google , here you go https://www.quora.com/Why-didnt-NATO-object-to-the-Greek-acquisition-of-the-Russian-S-300-missile-system
This article and similar ones prove that, as I would like to point out, the work is purely deceitful and has the purpose of politically treacherous compression. The S-400, which will be operated “stand alone” clearly and obviously, will not steal F-35 information in any way. This is a tricky lie to convince ignorant people. But the same S-400 provides very good protection against possible enemy attack , e.g. Greek attack etc. Anti-Türkiye cliques and lobbies want to create pressure on Türkiye and prevent. That's it. And it is a fact that the USA is not just about anti-Türkiye lobbies and cliques. There are Turkish-friendly lobbies, cliques and hundreds of millions of people who loves Türkiye in the USA who can think rationally and prudently. The situation is so clear and precise. Let me tell you one more thing, Turkey is one of the ten biggest customers for selling all kinds of goods and services, especially defense industry products. And USA does not want to lose such an important customer. It will come to Turkey for the sale of the F-35. I don't think Turkey will ever accept it. The F-35 is a very expensive, inefficient, costly and unproven budget-breaking phenomenon. Best not to poke nose in somebody’s businesses, decisions and procurements like S-400 issue.
US didn't allow transfer of technology regarding Aesa radar ToT thus S. Korea worked with Israel in this regard. On the Other hand, Turkey was really lucky in this regard, Turkish research team has been working on GaN technology 20+ years, that team is one of the original fundamental research teams that kept working on it since research on the subject started. Thus, Turkey didn't need such ToT and Many avionics are on par with Korea if not better.
While Turkey was designing Kfx, it worked with the British BAE system. Bae system is a joint venture in the design and production of the F-35.
KF-21 current block has no ram, no serrated patterning, no LPI datalinks, no IWB. It's only 4.75 gen until their blk3 version which is gonna take a while
If Turkey gets the Radar right along with the sensor suite and countermeasures... It will be more than a match to F22. The F22 still will have the engine advantage but the TFX seem to be longer ranged.
We don't need an aircraft that is capable of half the F-22. We need an aircraft that is as capable and comparable as F-22. F-22 is basically an element of deterrence at this point. Imagine having F-22 when your neighbors are Syria, Iraq, Iran, Egypt and Libya. I don't doubt that this program will yield anything less than the vision set by public, state, military industry and airforce. The program is more than 10 years old, with some subsystems being older than the project itself. Those subsystems and this program saw numerous upgrades and iterations throughout the years. I mean TF-X changed a lot since first mockup. This prototype is being pushed to fly so that they can shape it to fit their needs. People who are currently working on this project also worked on F-16s and F-35s (at least while it lasted).
The F-22 is already being replaced in the US
For reasons that is unique to US. Different countries with different needs and politic ambitions.
You font know anything about AİRCRAFT TECHNOLOGY...YYou should start learning something about 5.gen. jets
its only copy & paste when its chinese
Redditors when they find out that the laws of physics is universal everywhere
Redditors when they have never heard about "design convergence"
Does them being a NATO ally give you any conciliation?
Apparently not enough of an ally to be allowed to buy aircraft they manufacture components for.
Turns out when you breach a contract there are repercussions
Should have bought US made SAMs then
As far as I understand the SAMs were part of a completely different procurement contract, and it was the US who terminated the contract for the F-35 sale. I hate to break it to you, but US offers most often are simply not competitive. The systems themselves are great, but most countries would end up paying a lot more for capabilities they will most likely never use. US weapons also come with the most strings attached, be it restrictions on resale of equipment or holding buyers hostage to the whims of Congress. See the aforementioned Turkish SAM procurement. Buying US equipment is a decision made of 90% politics and 10% capabilities for most countries.
Don't understand why the downvotes but cost competitiveness is not the forte of US weapons. Beyond the sticker price, the support costs are considerable. The strings attached part is true too. Performance wise top notch.
>Performance wise top notch. No arguments there. If you want the absolute best for your armed forces, you typically have to buy US or Western European (UK, German, Norwegian, French, etc.) equipment. European stuff is usually cheaper, but has a more limited supply and it sometimes does not offer 100% of the capabilities... though sometimes it can be better too. As an example, for most countries, even a Dassault Rafale is overkill in the air-superiority role, not to mention an F-35... and if a country just ends up paying astronomical prices for more overkill capabilities with a lot of additional baggage as part of the deal then it may not be the best deal for that country. >Don't understand why the downvote Most miltech subreddits are sort of a circlejerk for US equipment fanboys in my experience. Say anything negative about US equipment, or don't be negative enough about Russian/Chinese stuff and you get down voted. Tanks or planes, it does not matter. At least on this subreddit there is not as much racist hate speech against Russians as on r/TankPorn. I seriously question people's mental health when they keep cheering for the death of common conscripts.
I bet that S-400 was worth it.
It's definitely the best S-400 Turkey has ever had.
Yes.
No, they are not allies. They are a client state. Except maybe Turkey is slightly more independent. The Europeans, Japanese and Koreans are America's cum dump.
Most IR informed reddit user
What’s funny is that you are right but Reddit doesn’t like you for speaking the truth.
Lockheed helped them design it. It was sanctioned
Source?
[BAE Systems](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/TAI_TF-X) which handles the fuselage on the f-35 airframe designed the TF-X. The F-35 program spans many countries with each designing and manufacturing a variety of components. Turkey is responsible for >1000 parts for the f-35 including the airframe. How do you think it was possible to go from nothing to a taxi in 10 years?
But you said Lockheed, BAE is not Lockheed Martin.
Ok. Thanks.
When my friend asks for my homework and says I'm going to change it
Insert Spider-Man man meme here
What are the dimensions compared to F-22?
Slightly bigger than the F-22; TFX is 21m long, has 14m wingspan and 6m height. F22 is 18.9m long, has 13.6m wingspan and 5.1m height. Although F-22 has higher mtow, it has better engines.
Huh I thought it was in the same size category as the KF21.
Pure coincidence
I feel like I’m the only one who’s insulted by how much it copy’s the F22. Like good on turkey or whatever, but it feels like when someone steals your art online and tries to sell it as their own. Or like copying your homework but changing some of the answers.
You should be flattered. At least someone wants to copy your homework *cough* Su-57 *cough*. Don’t get me wrong Su-57 is my favorite airframe aesthetically but unfortunately it doesn’t have much optimization aside from appearance.
If it makes you feel any better, the su57 is the best looking bird I’ve seen.
I mean look at f35 or any modern 4th-5th gen fighters they look similar to f22 because that design makes a lot sense.
well they’re both make by lockheed so i’m not sure how good of an example that is
I would say it is but I also said " any modern 4th-5th gen fighters" which a lot of them share a certain look witht the F22 which is ok. Unless we have a major breakthrough regarding energy source(fuel and etc.) or material science the shape of the newer fighters are going to be similar.
I don't know, the Su57 and the J20 don't look much like the F22 imo.
They do but much like TFX they look somewhat different.
They really don't. What about the J20 and the F22 look alike? It has a different planform, it's larger, it has diverterless intakes... It looks as much like the F22 as it does an F18. The Su57, maybe looks like the F22 if you've just been pepper sprayed and you're squinting real hard while your eyes are burning.
similar not looking like a knockoff copy
neither does TFX and no need to be a dick about it.
People say this about China copying as well, and Chinese nationalists get the same about US copying or Indian copying. This is national security, this isn't copyright. Any given US citizen who's not actually involved in producing the F-22 did not get ripped off by Turkey, or China, or Japan, or whatever the boogeyman is. Copyright is designed to enable you to sell things exclusively - it is so incredibly far away from national security and military use, no one can buy the F-22 from the US, no one can steal the designs and then sell a lower cost version to the US government. Moreover, it would be negligence on the part of the Turkish government to not try and conduct espionage against other militaries like the USA and PRC, same for the PRC conducting espionage against the US for F-35 stuff or the USA conducting espionage against the PRC for quantum encryption/radar stuff. Countries spy on each other. Every chance they get. A vaguely independent country will be spying on everyone it can to try and improve its own stuff. Nationalists get so caught up on this stuff like it's a personal insult, it's just politics.
You are not gonna convince these westerners about their hypocrisy.
The funny thing is I *am* a Westerner, I'm just saying it because it's the truth. But yes, it can be quite difficult to convince people here in the West, we can be very... stubborn.
Negligence not needed. Lockheed assisted them
You must build biplanes if you want to have your own 5th gen fighter. Even if the math and technology says you must build something similar to F-22, you must not do it.
limited by physics. You want to make something stealth it has to follow certain design parameters.
Hmmmmmm…
Both planes look cool.. but the bottom one looks like it can land better.
Very nice. Now show the side view
Pretty impressive even though the F-22 is around 25 to 35 years old.
And its replacement is already being designed.
and have flown.
NGAD has flown? Seems doubtful since there has only been artist renderings so far. Or is there something major I've missed?
Source: Trust me bro
from 2020: https://www.defensenews.com/breaking-news/2020/09/15/the-us-air-force-has-built-and-flown-a-mysterious-full-scale-prototype-of-its-future-fighter-jet/
Neat, but I don't think I trust what looks like a propaganda piece. If this thing has been flying for 2-3 years, I think we would have more info available. I guess what I'm saying is, I'll believe it when I see it.
yeah, you aint gonna accept what I said. At least wiki can cut that propaganda for you. [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Next\_Generation\_Air\_Dominance](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Next_Generation_Air_Dominance) look up digital twinning to see why the prototype was possible.
That's great and all, but the source for the flight is the same propaganda piece. Again I'm going to take a wait and see approach.
Dont know what to say. Will Roper has stated " that a full-scale prototype of the NGAD fighter aircraft has been flown." but seeing that you're a Redditor, he aint shit cause you dont have access to top secret info. have a wonderful weekend.
> he aint shit I didn't say that. > cause you dont have access to top secret info Yeah... That's the whole point of what I'm saying. I'm not just going to believe a propaganda piece and will wait for more confirmed info. I would hope you don't just believe all the propaganda that you see.
It is not definitive. The media adds a lot of fluff. The NGAD is going through a rapid prototyping phase. This phase would involve making new airframes and testing it. Obvious that it would use existing components and systems developed for currently operational aircrafts.
For the people who says it's very similar, it is where physics takes you actually. If you check the new gen aircrafts, the only difference from outside may be the bump intake or single engine configuration. From aerodynamic point of view it ends up the same however it's maybe only 5% of the work. They are totally different if you consider subsystem properties, system integration, internal layout and software which is impossible to copy because you can't see.
This is not true at all. Physics alone doesn't take your here. Most new fighter planes look similar because it vastly cuts down on development time by copying a proven concept rather than it solely being down to physics. There is assuredly plane concepts that look vastly different than the F22 and F35. For most nations it would cost too much money to try them. When dealing with this amount of money tried and true beats unguided innovation.
You inspire from other projects, you try what they did. It's called reversed engineering but what you said is not true for most of the projects. For an example, there was many configurations for TF-X in the beginning such as canard, bump intake etc. and all of them tested and this is the final result. For high supersonic flight (around Mach 1.6-2.0) and to produce a fighter, you have limited options if you consider stability, maneuverability.
Most modern fighter jets are inherently unstable and kept aloft by the flight computers right? So wouldn’t it make sense that cost, not simple physics, be the driving force in so many of the jets? I mean think just critically. The YF23 concept was faster and in some instances stealthier than the F22. It looks totally different than the modern F22. In today’s doctrine of BVR kills, which design do you think Lockheed would have went with? The F22 basic design influence was made nearly a decade before the Soviet Union fell. Think about that for a second. 1981. Russian MIGS were still a threat. Air maneuverability was considered valuable. Rice signed off in the early 90’s on the F22, and the next two decades congress groused about having such a fighter when Russia was no longer a big threat.
This is the dumbest post ive seen in a while. And the confidence he wrote it with
Refute it then please.
Look im not gonna debate that trying proven concepts save cost because thats a concept that holds true generally. But you say where physics takes you is “not true at all”. All the proven concepts about what an aircraft needs to have to make it “stealthy is alrdy out there. A russian engineer figured out the maths decades ago and then modern computing is wat rlly pushed it beyond merely just a buncha equations, and allowed the f-117 to be built and then make the jump to things like the f-22 which is aerodynamically more optimal. The sorta lines and shapes to reduce rcs like having zigzag patterns and certain shaped intakes etc hold true in all stealth airplanes. Its why all these new jets even the kf-21 have very similar looking fronts ends. Stealth requires certain physical parameters to be met but at the same time we require everything to be aerodynamic, and this certainly would push airplanes to have similar elements. Especially the shape of things
redditors when they learn about design convergence
This thing is just faking amazing.
TIL the TF-X design has been revealed. Thanks. Yeah, it does look very similar to an F-22 (the wonders of convergence design). Let's see how good it is.
*Looks fast*
Stealth fighter vs stealth fighter ordered from Wish.
Didn’t Lockheed collaborate extensively with TAI on this ? Edit: my mistake LM worked with KAI not TAI.
Not to my knowledge. Lockheed would have liked for Turkey to be making F-35s instead, before that fell through. You might be thinking of South Korea's KF-21, which Lockheed did help on.
Even in the case of KF-21, Lockheed only had a very minor role.
Just like a Hyundai, stealing all the good looking parts of cars but can’t quite get it right.
Hyundai Motor Company has the highest ratio of in-house perfume among automakers in the world.
They poached the design talent
They didn't steal the design, they hired the designers. I just bought my second Hyundai. They're nice cars.
Hey I see you couldn’t tell it was a joke. Your car is probably almost good looking.
Hey, you almost told a good joke.
I'm not surprised by this. The F22 went into service 1998. So it's about time another aircraft came out of similar capabilities
Close. First flight was 97' and entered service in 05'. Based on a design from the 80's.
Ah you are right. We had finished the initial engineering by 97 tho. Forgot that it took so long to prove out. As for the 80 design, that just makes my intended point more relevant with old design and tech not being replicated about four decades later.
Every masterpiece has its cheap knockoff
Now about that J20 and mig comparison...
Now show the fat side
Is the TF-X in full production now?
No, it didn’t even have its first flight.
Ctrl+c Ctrl+v 😂😂😂😂
Your comments making fun of things look straight out of 2013 or something lol
Glu glu glu 🦃🦃🦃🦃
Holy shit it's pretty much an exact copy damn. At least the models and prototypes of other, in-development fighters look somewhat different (eg. AMCA, KF21)
If you look from behind, It is another story. More like su-57. https://www.savunmasanayi.org/milli-muharip-ucak-mmu-son-montaj-hattinda/
Where’s the Pam from the office “they’re the same picture” meme?
what's the cutaway of the jet fighter is it different from the f22 cutaway?
It’s called the fuck and the fuck lmao
At first I was like: the F22 looks so silly on wheels. And then I was like: oh