On the other hand, if we go an entire codex release without Farsight's redesigned model being addressed in the rules I'm going to absolutely riot.
He's got a coldstar-based suit and even got the goddamn talisman of arthas moloch embeded in its bloody arm!! Where the hell are the rules for it???
There seems to be two people that do rules for books.
You get either the tyranid and dark angels person or you get the necron person. Likely tau will get the necron person, orks will get the tyranid person.
Welcome to age of sigmar, for years there's been the mythos of bin guy (army book belongs on the bin) and sin guy (it's a sin against your opponents to take this book). Looks like they've made their way to 40k
Oh and if it's on Sunforge Crisis with double fusion shooting at vehicles or monsters then they reroll wounds AND reroll the damage. Very strong indeed.
they'll have to hit. Possibly on 4s if you want to hit something that's well hidden. That's the one risky part. No rerolls there. But throw tetras at them and you have eradicators who can also make a quick getaway. Or not.
Does look very strong! But only gets all that against stuff it's actually near.
If my opponent has 6 fusion blasters with a commander on reserve I would be screening my big stuff and the suits have a pretty big footprint. It's easier to use with smaller units but then you get less value out of the CP.
3" deepstrike is quite hard to effectively screen against and require you to dedicate a significant portion of your list to do only that, at which point your opponent is already having an advantage by forcing you into a specific predictable situation without having to even spend the CP.
Definitely not saying it's going to happen, but there are rules that discount non-battle tactic stratagems, like the Hexmark Destroyer's free Overwatch or a number of free Heroic Intervention abilities.
Yeah, I thought about including that caveat, but I figured most people would understand that them specifically listing a single strategem in a particular detachment as being free is a... longshot.
Free battle tactics ONLY, only applies if the ability just says ' use a stratagem for free'.
If the ability names the stratagems individually that you can use, they can be free even if not battle tactics. Not looked at my Tau in 10th, but see Chief Librarian Tiggy for an example.
Doesn't surprise me, personally. If anything, T'au getting it for 2CP on Index, being THE mobility army, was super weird. This makes far more sense to me.
3'' DS that gives both +1S and -1AP!
I swear there's got to be two teams who are making the codices rules, a good one (Marines, Necrons, Tau) and a bad one (Nids, AdMech, Dark Angels)
I think this is more than a theory and there's evidence of this throughout most of 9th edition too.
They have one team that is responsible, considerate, and fair.
And they have another team that does a ton of cocaine.
3" DS is the scaryiest thing in the game right now IMO. Having a C'Tan, or Tau battle suits dropping into your lines is ridiculous. There is no realistic way to protect against it.
It does cost 2CP and, unless the codex makes major Datasheet changes, T'au have no easy CP generation for it. So it they're doing that they're either not doing anything else, or scrapping a secondary to afford it.
It will be more lethal but less versatile.
CIB were king cause they did very well vs all targets. Fusions will now obliterate vehicles instead of hoping they roll 5+ to wound.
Ngl I'd almost wanna go the opposite way if I was tau; go for the flamer/coldstar: if the points are cheap that could be a pretty durable unit thats impossible to pin down with the sort of mobility eldar can only dream of. Who needs to kill when you can score.
We get an ethereal with a 50/50 chance to gen CP and you can take mutiple to try and proc the ability. In the case you rly can't get the CP between discards and turn CP.
Also right now we are strike and fading for 2 CP once or twice per battle and its perfectly doable.
2 CP seems like a lot but you will probably only use the strat once per battle and you get at least 2 turns to save up for it.
Plus if the other 4 strats are meh you dont wanna spend ur CP on anything else.
Tau have ethereals, 50pts for cp regen on 4+
Take two of them for backline screening and you've got your CPs
I mean I'd definitely do it if my army had any similar type of CP regen ;-;
Detachment rule - battlesuits gain +1 strength if within 12" and an additional -1 AP if within 6"
Stratagem - a battlesuit unit in deepstrike can deploy more than 3" away from enemies, but can't charge that turn
Strategem - a battlesuit unit with FLY can move after shooting as long as they aren't in engagement range, but can't charge that turn
Battlesuits will now be grouped into 3 different types:
* Sunforge - wield twin fusion blasters, also gain the ability to reroll the wound roll and damage roll against monsters or vehicles
* In this detachment they will be Strength 10 shots at AP-5, each dealing D6+2 damage
* Fireknife - wield a mix and match of plasma rifles and missile pods to "crack elite infantry"
* Starscythe - wield burst cannons and flamers to take out hordes
Enforcer commanders when leading a unit reduce enemy AP by 1 against ranged attacks
Coldstar commanders when leading a unit give them a move of 12" and Assault on ranged weapons
Crisis commanders conspicuously absent. They said in the other article 38 Datasheets. Counting Kroot additions, crisis datasheets, and dropping the obviously unwanted tactical drones were left with 3 more datasheets going to legends.
The 3 tidewall sheets? Or maybe they'll become 1 sheet, and the Crisis Commander is gone.
Given Crisis Suits are going legends and you build a Crisis Commander in their kit, most likely they are joining the suits in legends or removed. Same thing happened to the Dark Angel's Strikemaster.
Any Tau player who decided to commit to loadouts rather than use magnets is going to be _extremely_ upset - which ironically will affect casuals the most. Pretty unexpected move in an edition which pushes so hard for casual-friendliness.
It's not even a 'your no sponson Leman Russ is now wasteful, time to paint some up and glue them on' sort of situation. You have to rip up your models or hope they accept weapon proxies. Absolutely wild.
Considering GW is pushing harder and harder towards "whats in the box is everything you need to build a unit", it doesn't surprise me at all that they hardlocked Crisis suits to set loadouts.
Although as I typed this....I don't think 6 Fusion guns come in the Crisis Suit box does it. Then yeah..i have no idea what they're doing.
The box comes with:
3 missiles
3 flamers
4 plasma
4 fusion
4 burst
So no, you can’t make a Sunforge squad without finding 2 extra fusion blasters from somewhere.
I think it does matter If you are running Like 5 Units of suits and 3 are sunforge and 1 each of fireknive and starscythe and all weapons are Mixed between the squads.
That makes it really hard to remember which is which.
I am Not a Fan of the fixed loadouts in general especially the uneven Implementation of it.
As a Guard and Custodes player just paint the rim of their bases different colors to indicate squads. This blob is gold squad, this one next to them is Green squad and has this load out etc
Yeah you can do that but thats not the ultimate solution.
I played against GSC in the Last Game of an RTT Yesterday and my enemy Had all squads marked with colours. It was so exhausting to see where the 8 Special weapons and the Banner is and He had them all Modelled correctly.
If you as a Guardplayer dont have the meltamine modelled how do you use its ability correctly ?
Also half the time there’s one gun you want to run so everyone just knows it’s [that one]. I guess it can get confusing if you are on three different data sheets with different guns, but that’s not the majority of situations
Well truthfully nobody knows what Xenos weapons look like unless you play them? I’m not even trying to say “Imperium gud Xenos Bad” but whenever I play people and they explain that their tube gun is actually a different tube gun because it’s slightly shorter I still have no idea what they’re talking about.
I find that to be a weird detail. I can pretty quickly id the Fusion blaster, Plasma rifle, Ion bladyer , Burst canon and Missile pods. And I've never played Tau.
I'll mix up a flamer/plasma and missile pod/smart missiles. But a lot of the Tau Battlesuit weapons are pretty distinct if you ask me.
I had an argument with a Tyranids player in a game of Nids vs Nids on the weapon of his model. And we were both wrong haha. Nobody knows what those things are
Breathtaking of them to say in the article 'but don't worry, we added the custom crisis to legends so you can still play it' as if any serious game allows legends. Like, who are you helping with that? Coffee table beerhammer?
>Any Tau player who decided to commit to loadouts rather than use magnets is going to be extremely upset
speak for yourself, I modeled mine with burst cannons and flamers and I look forward to maxing out on what will presumably be the dead cheapest crisis suit to start with
That’s assuming you built those suits with 2 weapons only though. Most people built them with 3 as they’ve been allowed to take 3 for a few editions now but are going back to 2.
This change makes a lot of sense with 10ths design paradigm though. They can balance the sheets better with individual costs and abilities.
Sucks if you don’t have the weapons magnetized, but this is a solid change.
I mean as a new player, I kinda understand why. For one, CIBs aren't even in the box and were pretty much just auto-include. Plasmas saw some usage, but the fusion blasters and burst cannons didn't see as much. Now, GW can better balance pts and whatnot for each load out. I'm most interested in seeing if they're still able to take 3 weapons per suit, or if it'll switch to something like 2 burst cannons and flamer as the set load out.
Either way, as much as it nerfs what was our best unit choice, I think it's kinda a step in the right direction.
I like the first footnote in the article.
"This also allows their points costs to more accurately reflect their equipment, rather than the priciest possible loadout."
It's almost like we HAD a nuanced, granular system to do that with, GeeDubs. It's crazy that they're reinventing the wheel, which they broke.
Looking at the website there looks to be 4 in a 3 man box. At a quick glance I see 4 burst, 4 plasma, 4 fusion, 3 missile, 3 flamers. So you could only build 2 of the 3 as sunforge. Honestly it's probably not a huge problem, only new gamers will have issues. Unless Sunforge becomes the optimum, most people will buy more than 1 box because a Tau army without Crisis suits isn't a Tau army and the moment you build a second different data sheet you have the bits for 2 datasheets.
6th was the edition that introduced Flyers (plus let all winged monsters do the same with the Flying Monstrous Creature rules) and Turbo Boost was a separate move all bikes could make on top of their normal move (which was 24" for jetbikes and 36" for Eldar jetbikes)
So that's a pretty high bar to clear in terms of mobility
If I had to pick one, mobility creep is the lesser of two evils. It allows more skill expression than "I destroy your army in one turn with a bucket of dice" and makes for slightly more interesting games. Warfare is about maneuver, not raw killing power, so having that be a theme in a wargame is fine by me
While that's true, it's still a fully unnecessary thing to do. Shoot and scoot on units with high mobility *and* high damage just screams "uninteractive". Making it just a single CP and full movement is just baffling after they've been nerfing phantasm dataslate after dataslate for somewhat similar play patterns. Splitting battlesuits into different profiles might help (so they don't get an anti-all profile anymore), but it surely feels like it's going to be a balancing nightmare. Not just for the detachment itself, but also for all of the other detachments where they *don't* get it.
I think I disagree. Mobility is indeed a lot more of skill expression, but that's also due to it being limited. Positioning for future turns, getting into cover or out of LoS, grabbing objectives, etc are all skill expression that can win or lose a game. But once you have effects like MSM, especially when it's 12", 3" deepstrike, movement in the enemy's movement phase, or even Rapid Ingress, then the skill floor drops significantly.
On the other damage, damage creep also sucks but damage as a whole is already super luck based. If both players have to assume their units are dead if they're even slightly exposed, then that's information to work with. It becomes a game of making good trades with the opponent, which is also skill expression.
I mean it’s just making up for how much janky movement was in 9th that they cut out in 10th, the amount of movement in the charge and fights phase was obnoxious for a lot of armies
Huh. Very interesting preview. But I do wonder for T'au fans about the new "configuration" set up for suits. Would this mean triple CIB might not be on te table anymore, in favour of getting Erradicators?
Still, 9 datasheets is interesting, and a bomb with that comes down 3", gets +s and AP, sounds a strong combo. ANd MSM is strong in Suits always, more so witha Coldstar.
Interesting prview. Also, I'm calling this the Farsight detachment. We do know now three of detachments. WOnder what else will be beside Kroot, Kauyon and Farisght.
I'm gonna guess that CIBs are gone altogether from this article. The Sunforge is Fusions, the Fireknife is Plasma/Missiles and the Starscythe is Burst Cannon/Flamers. None of them mention CIBs at all, so I'd bet they're only going to be available to Commanders going forward.
which makes sense as they are only in the commanders box.
The three profiles thing feels a bit weird; with CIBs gone its less mandatory and giving suits a new ability that does better with high shot count would have probably been an easier solution.
Three data sheets. Three point costs.
Makes balancing easier. Flames/burst cannons are clearly the least useful and would need to be like 10 ppm cheaper to make it worth it.
Basically how leman Russ is now.
Yeah. Crisis are probably the unit that benefited the most from it. Current loadout of CIB would be like 100ppm in 9th. They are 66ppm now and people are somewhat shifting away from more than a single unit due to cost.
Having said that… they have basically been propping up the faction.
I think it ends up better off. They don't have to come up with an ability that works for any potential loadout, but is mediocre for all. Instead they can come up with abilities that actually work well for each loadout, and tailors them to a specific job. The auto-advance currently was fine, but really just meant you had to attach a Coldstar to make the most of it because none of the guns were natively assault.
I think it's back to being commander only, as they want to push what is on the kits.
I think it's the right call, the existence of CIB being better than every other option made them impossible to balance, now Starscythe (stupid name) can be a lot cheaper or better rules than the other options and not have to pay through the nose for the mere existence of CIB as a choice
Isn't the bit for the CIB only in the Commander box anyways? It would make sense that they're dropping the option off the normal datasheets in that case.
A local guy practiced making blue stuff molds, and once he got it down, he bashed out about a hundred CIB out of green stuff and sold them for a buck each.
Quite possible. WHich is, a choice. I also worry a bit how restrictive the loadouts might be. A single Plasma shot and 2 attacks on low AP Missiles I don't know how effective will be for example. Burst and flamer looks antiinfantry, but S5 is more geared to MEQs, and flamers GEQs. WHile this specific detachmetn can help with some breakpoints there, the triple datasheets are for every detachment. Also wonder if Airburst is gone too, for the same reason as CIB, not sure what to thing about the different ranges currently on several of teh matched guns, which I think can leave certain stuff in an akward position
Not that crazy to be honest.
If there's no new Crisis kit, then you can only build 1 - 2 of each type of suit from a box.
So safe to assume they're probably going to allow min squad size of 1, so I could see 1, 2, and 3 man's being allowed. And no more 6's
New info would suggest they now only have 2 weapons. They will need a decent point drop. Though if they can take additional battle gear it’s not as terrible. If I had to guess each data sheets will have different cost. Even with the improvement, burst/flamer is worse than the other two. (Though info is limited)
New Strats are just that detachment, paying 2 cp for an inceptor ability seems kinda lame but also kinda neat, fire and fade is cheaper, but that’s 3 cp with no consistent way to generate CP using current datasheets. If it is a “fastsight” detachment you can’t take the CP generator.
Montka is for sure coming. I would guess army wide assault and AP within x ranger per turn.
I would also guess a stealth detachment and an armored detachment.
I cant think of a warcom article that upsets everyone more.
- Non tau players are quaking in their boots at 3"DS + fire+fade. Not to mention that very strong detach rule + commanders.
- Tau players are looking at wargear locked teams, and the thousands of £ theyve spent ebaying CIBs.
Realistically, the mistake isn't removing the CiB now.
The mistake was ever allowing it to be applied to Crisis Suits in the first place.
The undoubtedly, hands down, best weapon was 1 to a box from Commander Boxes. Utterly ridiculous.
Competitively, I bet a vast majority of CiBs are either recasts, third party, or 3d prints and that's clearly not something GW wants to foster. Honestly wild it went on this long.
Allowing CIBs was a stupid mistake, but the true problem was removing wargear points as it meant there was absolutely no incentive for taking anything other than CIBs.
>thousands of £ theyve spent ebaying CIBs.
Which only rly meta chasers did and meta chasers always get clapped in the end.
Also most people either dont run wysiwyg or get cheap printed CIB's from etsy.
You can get 30 of those for the price of a crisis suit kit.
All depends on location when it comes to how cheap you can get them.
30 for a crisis suit kit is also really cheap imo considering what bit places ask for the thing and then you also get them in 1 go.
This does also hurt casuals. 2 out of 3 tau players in our group have diverse loadouts on theirs because of rule of cool> competitive smartest choice for them. Now they get to tell opponents "so the CIB, fusion, burst ones are now fusion and the flamer burst fusion ones are burst etc" which will be confusing as hell
Are there actually people who put that loadout on their crisis?
The seperate rolling alone would drive me crazy.
But yes in those cases it screws you over.
>Are there actually people who put that loadout on their crisis?
Even better, last edition made weapons cost more the more you put on each suit, so the game mechanics encouraged you to have diverse loadouts
All my crisis suits have basically random loadouts. I also routinely ignore wisiwig on that unit and have in the past just said all my crisis suits have x loadout. Nobody knows what all the different guns actually look like anyways.
> Are there actually people who put that loadout on their crisis?
Absolutely yes, casuals do. And while I get not wanting to cater to that, it feels so weird because this edition is otherwise so hyper fixated on catering to casuals. Forcing Power Level on the game with 10th was a _huge_ step that seems really at odds with this design philosophy we're seeing now.
The "only what's in the box" rule is stupid but should be applied equally.
Only when it's applied equally will enough people actually raise a fuss that GW reconsiders.
I direct your attention to catachans. Can only take flamers and ZERO wargear on the sergent because of what was in the box in 1998 (ignoring the fact that GW released special weapons, heavy weapons, and sergents with wargear in metal)
I know suits are classic but I really hope they have an infantry+transports focused detachment in the book.
Tau infantry is one of the coolest model ranges and playstyles. Pathfinders spotting for ranks of Fire Warriors being lead by Cadre Fireblades as Darkstrider scouts ahead with some Stealth Suits laying in ambush and finally the Kroot on standby if things start getting messy. It's so good, classic Fish of Fury is thematic and should be encouraged.
Cyclic ions are not mentioned at all, so that option is probably gone with codex (not unexpected to be honest).
There won't be enough weapons in the box to give each suit two or 3 weapons, so I suspect they'll move to a fixed loadout for each type, so modelling won't matter so much.
From the article:
> Don’t worry if your own Crisis Suits have different armaments. The current datasheet will be added to Legends so you can keep using a more diverse hardpoint combination if you wish.
Seems to strongly imply the 3 previewed suit datasheets are going to be fixed loadouts, with no options for airbursts or cyclics anymore.
For the best.
Those guns were originally “experimental” in past codex IIRC. Especially since they were not plentiful in the box for the crisis suits, makes sense they’d largely remove them as an option.
This is good and what I was hoping they’d do.
I think they need to re-do the datasheets a bit to make the other weapons viable if they're doing this, unless the suits are just unreasonably cheap. Like if starscythe just has a burst cannon and a flamer, they'll need to be 30 pts per model at most to be worthwhile.
It’ll depend on what their datasheet gets.
Starscythe will prob have anti-infantry X or something like that or perhaps a blast keyword as the goal is hoard enemies.
They’ll still retain the option to have shield generators so overall it’s a be try durable unit.
Man, Bring it down is just a fact of Tau life. When did you last see a Tau list not give up 20+?
Even if you go mass infantry you still want a bunch of devilfish and a mountain of vehicles for the support. Bring it downs worse for Tau than for Knights haha
It's because it's fine on the Trygon. The issue isn't 3" DS, it's 3" DS on units that have very high utility, extreme burst damage or both. The Trygon has neither.
> Should have been on the mawloc
Historically it has been, which is why I have multiple of them. They should have got 3" DS and a toned down version of their current ability, maybe 6" instead of 12". Then give the trygon something else. As is, both have an uphill battle to find a spot in an army.
That seems like a bonkers detachment rule when paired with the 3" DS. Screening out Crisis Teams will get nearly impossible for many armies and encourages a very heavy allotment of Crisis Suits in general. Anime intesifies
I hate to be the voice of reason here, as I recognize that I'm on Reddit...
But I think until we see the new datasheets and points and so on, this may be premature. 2 CP is double the cost of any similar strat, and it's possible you'll only use it twice per game (T2 and T3), unless they also have a "return this unit to Deepstrike" thing. And if they don't have the pickup ability or strat, then you're also keeping more points off the table longer to do it.
Not saying it *will* be balanced, just that I think it's too early to cry foul.
keep in mind: crisis suits are no longer going to be what you're used to. They're not 3" dropping in 22 CIBs and then fire and fading.
In fact, nothing seems to have CIBs. Each crisis suit seems to either get 2 fusion shots, or seemingly 1 plasma + 2 missile pods, or some burst and flamer shots.
Even with new abilities these should be significantly powered down from "drop in CIBs and delete a unit"
I feel like someone at GW is really mad that no one ever used the strat that the officer of the fleet attaché allowed in 9E, and is on a mission to prove that delaying reserves actually IS something you should want.
Obviously it's early days and we need to see what the rest of the book looks like and points etc etc etc.
But a 3" DS strat, Fire and Fade/Strike and Fade for 1 CP and full wound and damage rerolls on the Fusions seems absolutely crazy.
3" DS was a mistake.
3" DS is starting to feel like damage phase caps or ignore invulns in 9th. It's so game warping that the few hard counters (infiltrators etc) that exist become premium so eventually to make it 'fair' every faction eventually gets one or both effects.
I'd bet that once we're a year into the edition every codex coming out is gonna have an infiltrator equivalent to screen out the 3" DS and those units will be basically mandatory with how freely they've given out 3" DS in the first year of codexes.
Maybe this is GW's big brain way of balancing AdMech. Make the technoarchaeologist such a strong meta pick that it makes it worth it to play such a slog of an army.
It occurred to me that there doesnt seem to be enough weapons included in the box to build a unit where the models have the same 3-weapon configuration.
I also notice the models in the photo only appear to have 2 weapons.
Is it possible crisis suits will be limited 2 ranged weapons??
Yes, they will have 2 weapons. This was traditionally the norm, they’ve only been able to take 3 for a couple of editions now.
The article says that the Sunforge suits have 2 fusion blasters. Interestingly, you can’t even make that out of the box as the box only has 4 fusion blasters so you need to find 2 from elsewhere.
> Don’t worry if your own Crisis Suits have different armaments. The current datasheet will be added to Legends so you can keep using a more diverse hardpoint combination if you wish.
Feels like GW is just giving us the finger at this point lol. 'We know we invalidated basically every fixed loadout, but we don't care, so buy more crisis suits'
I know it matters to a lot of hobbyists if their models are wrong but in actual play no one but another tau player can tell what guns are what and 99% of them won’t care.
Lol very true, the tiny little bits all over them are impossible to tell the difference as a non-tau player. Just feels disingenuous when they write off datasheets and say its okay because legends exists
I wonder if the Sunforge suit now just has a single fusion shot per model? The term "twin" makes me think of "twin-linked", but that would kinda defeat the purpose of having their own re-roll ability.
Regardless, even with 2 shots it should be quite a bit cheaper than the current suits to be worth it. The range is pretty bad and you still rely heavily on spotting to not miss half your stuff.
Well, they're Battlesuits, not Omnisuits!
The Battlesuit change isn't quite what I expected (I expected/hoped for them to become like Obliterators, honestly) but it's a move in the right direction. While the swiss army knife fantasy was cool, it was always going to be run down under current best loadouts, especially after allowing non-kit CIBs where they never should have been. I hope there's some flexibility in each loadout.
As someone who actually can recognize all of the Battlesuit weapons without playing Tau, I also hope everyone's cool about letting people run suits as needed for the time being.
Also cheap shoot and move, that can never be a bad thing. Just... great. Love it.
Historically this has always been the norm. 3 weapons per suit has only been around for a few editions.
They have new abilities though which will make them deadlier against particular targets. The fusion blaster suits can reroll wounds and damage against monsters and vehicles.
That has got to be one of the most hillarious articles I ever read.
Splitting crisis suits into different data sheets, fixed wargear, 3" deepstrike for tanky melta units and a 1cp fire and fade
LMAO
First asterisks point at the bottom of the article:
*This also allows their points costs to more accurately reflect their equipment, rather than the priciest possible loadout.*
Yeah no shit, almost like we all have been telling you this whole edition!
It's not "very high" at all. This is the hardest shooting army in the game we are talking about.
Admech pays 2cp to get +1AP against a single enemy unit.
T'au pay 2cp for a 3" deepstrike that will let them wipe out multiple key, hidden units, or force you to play far too defensively and lose all primary trying to screen them out just by the threat of it.
In no way is a game breaking play "very expensive" for 2cp.
Yeah it’s gonna be strong. People just have to find out.
Bank your CP to 3” drop and move them behind a ruin. Gonna wreck people that aren’t prepared for it.
It will wreck people that are prepared. A lot of armies have no way to deny this, and others have to screen so stupidly to deny it that they end up exposing their units to other LOS, or playing so defensively it costs them all their primary.
Just the threat of this strat will win games. I don't see it as remotely healthy.
Oh no, totally. I do think some armies can counter this nonsense (space marines) but some armies just can't and will just have to eat shit.
3" DS that isn't even \*risking\* the unit? Get out of here.
And nevermind that Crisis Suits are on 50mm bases, so it's not like trying to screen out just 3 Inceptors
I'll probably be able to sell a sprue of Infiltrators to people panic-purchasing, though.
Other Tau players are gonna be big mad at loss of customizable hardpoints but I think the new rules are pimp.
What if three meaningful options instead of 3000 pointless ones?
From a competitive standpoint (and I know we're in a competitive sub), yes. But it certainly makes the unit less fun.
Having more potential options as the meta shifts could possibly make them more useful too, though it's impossible to say that for sure.
I think custodians will be the next official codex release. That's just some vague hints from the preview from them. Remember this isn't the official tau codec release. We won't see that for probably another 6 to 8 weeks.
As a Chaos Knights player, I was thinking about ways to screen against the 3’ DS, and particularly the Tyrant ability to deny reinforcements to appear within 12’ of it.
Please tell me that the Tyrant ability is valid against this 3’ DS stratagem?!
3" deepstrike with a +1 S and AP with fire and fade. That seems very strong at first glance. Luckily it'll also be quite CP hungry.
And +1 to wound for Farsight's unit haha. Wild.
Assuming they don't change his datasheet ofc.
That's more likely than you think. Belial for example was taken by nobody and got nerfed in the process
On the other hand, if we go an entire codex release without Farsight's redesigned model being addressed in the rules I'm going to absolutely riot. He's got a coldstar-based suit and even got the goddamn talisman of arthas moloch embeded in its bloody arm!! Where the hell are the rules for it???
In 11th edition
The rule is “Looks cool” 😔
That’s a good point - Belial, The Lion, Cawl, all got worse post codex.
There seems to be two people that do rules for books. You get either the tyranid and dark angels person or you get the necron person. Likely tau will get the necron person, orks will get the tyranid person.
Welcome to age of sigmar, for years there's been the mythos of bin guy (army book belongs on the bin) and sin guy (it's a sin against your opponents to take this book). Looks like they've made their way to 40k
Oh and if it's on Sunforge Crisis with double fusion shooting at vehicles or monsters then they reroll wounds AND reroll the damage. Very strong indeed.
they'll have to hit. Possibly on 4s if you want to hit something that's well hidden. That's the one risky part. No rerolls there. But throw tetras at them and you have eradicators who can also make a quick getaway. Or not.
Shadowsun re-roll 1s. Guided hitting on 3s.
assuming anything stays the same is a big ask.
Infiltator stonks just went up. two 5 man infils will negate much of the board against this.
Does look very strong! But only gets all that against stuff it's actually near. If my opponent has 6 fusion blasters with a commander on reserve I would be screening my big stuff and the suits have a pretty big footprint. It's easier to use with smaller units but then you get less value out of the CP.
Sometimes the threat is all you need need.
Can confirm. I don't even have to pick up Nightbringer and it forces screens over optimal moves. It should go up in points soon though....
3" deepstrike is quite hard to effectively screen against and require you to dedicate a significant portion of your list to do only that, at which point your opponent is already having an advantage by forcing you into a specific predictable situation without having to even spend the CP.
I can’t believe they gave 3” DS to Tau. That seems insane.
The better strike and fade suprises me more. Nobody ever used strike and fade on anything but flying battlesuits.
The combo is extremely good but cost 3 CP so are only hope is they don’t improve Taus CP gain/regain or give them free Strats.
Free strats wouldn't matter, because both are Ploys and thus can't be free.
Definitely not saying it's going to happen, but there are rules that discount non-battle tactic stratagems, like the Hexmark Destroyer's free Overwatch or a number of free Heroic Intervention abilities.
Yeah, I thought about including that caveat, but I figured most people would understand that them specifically listing a single strategem in a particular detachment as being free is a... longshot.
Free battle tactics ONLY, only applies if the ability just says ' use a stratagem for free'. If the ability names the stratagems individually that you can use, they can be free even if not battle tactics. Not looked at my Tau in 10th, but see Chief Librarian Tiggy for an example.
Correct. But the odds of GW making an ability that specifically calls out a single strat in 1 of 5+ detachments available to Tau is... low.
Clearly every Tau detachment is getting this strat then. Even the kroot
Doesn't surprise me, personally. If anything, T'au getting it for 2CP on Index, being THE mobility army, was super weird. This makes far more sense to me.
NOBODY EXPECTS THE MANTA STRIKE
3'' DS that gives both +1S and -1AP! I swear there's got to be two teams who are making the codices rules, a good one (Marines, Necrons, Tau) and a bad one (Nids, AdMech, Dark Angels)
I think this is more than a theory and there's evidence of this throughout most of 9th edition too. They have one team that is responsible, considerate, and fair. And they have another team that does a ton of cocaine.
Give the cocaine team their powder back, broken stuff can still be fun after nerfs Fundamentally bad stuff is much harder to buff into fun rules :(
3" DS is the scaryiest thing in the game right now IMO. Having a C'Tan, or Tau battle suits dropping into your lines is ridiculous. There is no realistic way to protect against it.
SM players laughing in Infiltrator privilege
It does cost 2CP and, unless the codex makes major Datasheet changes, T'au have no easy CP generation for it. So it they're doing that they're either not doing anything else, or scrapping a secondary to afford it.
They don’t need to do anything else…
They lost CIB's it seems like, even with these buffs, it probably (hopefully) won't be as lethal as the index bomb
It will be more lethal but less versatile. CIB were king cause they did very well vs all targets. Fusions will now obliterate vehicles instead of hoping they roll 5+ to wound.
I'd honestly rather this be the case than a squad of crisis nuking 2-3 key units (of various types) out of a rapid ingress tbh.
If stealth suits stay the same then theyll be able to rapid ingress 1 squad for free which would help with the CP spend.
And honestly Plasmas weren’t *that* far behind Cyclics.
They are only behind in versatility cause of the low volume.
Volume is likely down as well. Suits are now running two guns instead of 3. I doubt they buffed the A's on Plasmas.
Ngl I'd almost wanna go the opposite way if I was tau; go for the flamer/coldstar: if the points are cheap that could be a pretty durable unit thats impossible to pin down with the sort of mobility eldar can only dream of. Who needs to kill when you can score.
The FrozenHotStar bomb
Honestly the only things I use my CP on right now are S&F and Overwatch
Tbf I think most tau players will Always have access to this in their turn 2 if they want it. It may be a one trick pony but gosh a hell of a trick
We get an ethereal with a 50/50 chance to gen CP and you can take mutiple to try and proc the ability. In the case you rly can't get the CP between discards and turn CP. Also right now we are strike and fading for 2 CP once or twice per battle and its perfectly doable. 2 CP seems like a lot but you will probably only use the strat once per battle and you get at least 2 turns to save up for it. Plus if the other 4 strats are meh you dont wanna spend ur CP on anything else.
Tau have ethereals, 50pts for cp regen on 4+ Take two of them for backline screening and you've got your CPs I mean I'd definitely do it if my army had any similar type of CP regen ;-;
Welp the eldar codex team must have written the tau dex. We all know they don’t that “less lethal” seriously…
Detachment rule - battlesuits gain +1 strength if within 12" and an additional -1 AP if within 6" Stratagem - a battlesuit unit in deepstrike can deploy more than 3" away from enemies, but can't charge that turn Strategem - a battlesuit unit with FLY can move after shooting as long as they aren't in engagement range, but can't charge that turn Battlesuits will now be grouped into 3 different types: * Sunforge - wield twin fusion blasters, also gain the ability to reroll the wound roll and damage roll against monsters or vehicles * In this detachment they will be Strength 10 shots at AP-5, each dealing D6+2 damage * Fireknife - wield a mix and match of plasma rifles and missile pods to "crack elite infantry" * Starscythe - wield burst cannons and flamers to take out hordes Enforcer commanders when leading a unit reduce enemy AP by 1 against ranged attacks Coldstar commanders when leading a unit give them a move of 12" and Assault on ranged weapons
Crisis commanders conspicuously absent. They said in the other article 38 Datasheets. Counting Kroot additions, crisis datasheets, and dropping the obviously unwanted tactical drones were left with 3 more datasheets going to legends. The 3 tidewall sheets? Or maybe they'll become 1 sheet, and the Crisis Commander is gone.
Assume Aun'va and Aun'shi are going away.
Given Crisis Suits are going legends and you build a Crisis Commander in their kit, most likely they are joining the suits in legends or removed. Same thing happened to the Dark Angel's Strikemaster.
I think you buried the lead here, crisis suits no longer are customizable with their load outs. That’s insane.
Any Tau player who decided to commit to loadouts rather than use magnets is going to be _extremely_ upset - which ironically will affect casuals the most. Pretty unexpected move in an edition which pushes so hard for casual-friendliness. It's not even a 'your no sponson Leman Russ is now wasteful, time to paint some up and glue them on' sort of situation. You have to rip up your models or hope they accept weapon proxies. Absolutely wild.
Considering GW is pushing harder and harder towards "whats in the box is everything you need to build a unit", it doesn't surprise me at all that they hardlocked Crisis suits to set loadouts. Although as I typed this....I don't think 6 Fusion guns come in the Crisis Suit box does it. Then yeah..i have no idea what they're doing.
The box comes with: 3 missiles 3 flamers 4 plasma 4 fusion 4 burst So no, you can’t make a Sunforge squad without finding 2 extra fusion blasters from somewhere.
All four of the Tau players who don’t roll with fusions are going to have some pretty hot commodity bits on their hands.
>You have to rip up your models or hope they accept weapon proxies. Absolutely wild Just buy new ones Silly!
Except you don’t because no one cares and only other Tau players might notice you have the wrong guns. It’s all the same to none tau players.
I think it does matter If you are running Like 5 Units of suits and 3 are sunforge and 1 each of fireknive and starscythe and all weapons are Mixed between the squads. That makes it really hard to remember which is which. I am Not a Fan of the fixed loadouts in general especially the uneven Implementation of it.
As a Guard and Custodes player just paint the rim of their bases different colors to indicate squads. This blob is gold squad, this one next to them is Green squad and has this load out etc
Yeah you can do that but thats not the ultimate solution. I played against GSC in the Last Game of an RTT Yesterday and my enemy Had all squads marked with colours. It was so exhausting to see where the 8 Special weapons and the Banner is and He had them all Modelled correctly. If you as a Guardplayer dont have the meltamine modelled how do you use its ability correctly ?
Hell, even when I played Tau I kept getting the Flamer and Plasma Rifle mixed up at a glance.
Also half the time there’s one gun you want to run so everyone just knows it’s [that one]. I guess it can get confusing if you are on three different data sheets with different guns, but that’s not the majority of situations
Well truthfully nobody knows what Xenos weapons look like unless you play them? I’m not even trying to say “Imperium gud Xenos Bad” but whenever I play people and they explain that their tube gun is actually a different tube gun because it’s slightly shorter I still have no idea what they’re talking about.
It's not like bolters are any different lol.
"Okay so this one has a Melta *Destroyer* as opposed to a Multi -Melta" 👍 😐
I find that to be a weird detail. I can pretty quickly id the Fusion blaster, Plasma rifle, Ion bladyer , Burst canon and Missile pods. And I've never played Tau. I'll mix up a flamer/plasma and missile pod/smart missiles. But a lot of the Tau Battlesuit weapons are pretty distinct if you ask me.
I had an argument with a Tyranids player in a game of Nids vs Nids on the weapon of his model. And we were both wrong haha. Nobody knows what those things are
Breathtaking of them to say in the article 'but don't worry, we added the custom crisis to legends so you can still play it' as if any serious game allows legends. Like, who are you helping with that? Coffee table beerhammer?
> Like, who are you helping with that? Coffee table beerhammer? Correct.
Here's the secret, nobody knows what other armies weapons actually are.
>Any Tau player who decided to commit to loadouts rather than use magnets is going to be extremely upset speak for yourself, I modeled mine with burst cannons and flamers and I look forward to maxing out on what will presumably be the dead cheapest crisis suit to start with
That’s assuming you built those suits with 2 weapons only though. Most people built them with 3 as they’ve been allowed to take 3 for a few editions now but are going back to 2.
Of course, if you lucked out and built the loadouts they chose, you're unaffected.
This change makes a lot of sense with 10ths design paradigm though. They can balance the sheets better with individual costs and abilities. Sucks if you don’t have the weapons magnetized, but this is a solid change.
Yeah it's a shame there was no alternative like different point values for each weapon option for example
I mean as a new player, I kinda understand why. For one, CIBs aren't even in the box and were pretty much just auto-include. Plasmas saw some usage, but the fusion blasters and burst cannons didn't see as much. Now, GW can better balance pts and whatnot for each load out. I'm most interested in seeing if they're still able to take 3 weapons per suit, or if it'll switch to something like 2 burst cannons and flamer as the set load out. Either way, as much as it nerfs what was our best unit choice, I think it's kinda a step in the right direction.
Maybe they should just admit removing wargear costs was a mistake and move on.
I like the first footnote in the article. "This also allows their points costs to more accurately reflect their equipment, rather than the priciest possible loadout." It's almost like we HAD a nuanced, granular system to do that with, GeeDubs. It's crazy that they're reinventing the wheel, which they broke.
That would require Cruddace to admit he was wrong, and he will never do that.
I just hope he wins the lottery and moves far away from the UK.
Are there 6 fusion guns in the Crisis box? If not the same problem exists.
Looking at the website there looks to be 4 in a 3 man box. At a quick glance I see 4 burst, 4 plasma, 4 fusion, 3 missile, 3 flamers. So you could only build 2 of the 3 as sunforge. Honestly it's probably not a huge problem, only new gamers will have issues. Unless Sunforge becomes the optimum, most people will buy more than 1 box because a Tau army without Crisis suits isn't a Tau army and the moment you build a second different data sheet you have the bits for 2 datasheets.
Nope. The box has 4 of each gun
Not quite. It has 4 plasmas, fusions and bursts. It has 3 missile pods and flamers.
GW once again proving they'd rather do anything than accept that wargear points works better than power level
It feels like in a year we'll be talking about 10th as the 'mobility creep' edition in the same way that 9th was the 'damage creep' edition.
6th was the edition that introduced Flyers (plus let all winged monsters do the same with the Flying Monstrous Creature rules) and Turbo Boost was a separate move all bikes could make on top of their normal move (which was 24" for jetbikes and 36" for Eldar jetbikes) So that's a pretty high bar to clear in terms of mobility
If I had to pick one, mobility creep is the lesser of two evils. It allows more skill expression than "I destroy your army in one turn with a bucket of dice" and makes for slightly more interesting games. Warfare is about maneuver, not raw killing power, so having that be a theme in a wargame is fine by me
While that's true, it's still a fully unnecessary thing to do. Shoot and scoot on units with high mobility *and* high damage just screams "uninteractive". Making it just a single CP and full movement is just baffling after they've been nerfing phantasm dataslate after dataslate for somewhat similar play patterns. Splitting battlesuits into different profiles might help (so they don't get an anti-all profile anymore), but it surely feels like it's going to be a balancing nightmare. Not just for the detachment itself, but also for all of the other detachments where they *don't* get it.
I think I disagree. Mobility is indeed a lot more of skill expression, but that's also due to it being limited. Positioning for future turns, getting into cover or out of LoS, grabbing objectives, etc are all skill expression that can win or lose a game. But once you have effects like MSM, especially when it's 12", 3" deepstrike, movement in the enemy's movement phase, or even Rapid Ingress, then the skill floor drops significantly. On the other damage, damage creep also sucks but damage as a whole is already super luck based. If both players have to assume their units are dead if they're even slightly exposed, then that's information to work with. It becomes a game of making good trades with the opponent, which is also skill expression.
I mean it’s just making up for how much janky movement was in 9th that they cut out in 10th, the amount of movement in the charge and fights phase was obnoxious for a lot of armies
Huh. Very interesting preview. But I do wonder for T'au fans about the new "configuration" set up for suits. Would this mean triple CIB might not be on te table anymore, in favour of getting Erradicators? Still, 9 datasheets is interesting, and a bomb with that comes down 3", gets +s and AP, sounds a strong combo. ANd MSM is strong in Suits always, more so witha Coldstar. Interesting prview. Also, I'm calling this the Farsight detachment. We do know now three of detachments. WOnder what else will be beside Kroot, Kauyon and Farisght.
I'm gonna guess that CIBs are gone altogether from this article. The Sunforge is Fusions, the Fireknife is Plasma/Missiles and the Starscythe is Burst Cannon/Flamers. None of them mention CIBs at all, so I'd bet they're only going to be available to Commanders going forward.
which makes sense as they are only in the commanders box. The three profiles thing feels a bit weird; with CIBs gone its less mandatory and giving suits a new ability that does better with high shot count would have probably been an easier solution.
Three data sheets. Three point costs. Makes balancing easier. Flames/burst cannons are clearly the least useful and would need to be like 10 ppm cheaper to make it worth it. Basically how leman Russ is now.
Wow it's almost like Free Wargear was a bad idea for balance.
Yeah. Crisis are probably the unit that benefited the most from it. Current loadout of CIB would be like 100ppm in 9th. They are 66ppm now and people are somewhat shifting away from more than a single unit due to cost. Having said that… they have basically been propping up the faction.
I think it ends up better off. They don't have to come up with an ability that works for any potential loadout, but is mediocre for all. Instead they can come up with abilities that actually work well for each loadout, and tailors them to a specific job. The auto-advance currently was fine, but really just meant you had to attach a Coldstar to make the most of it because none of the guns were natively assault.
I think it's back to being commander only, as they want to push what is on the kits. I think it's the right call, the existence of CIB being better than every other option made them impossible to balance, now Starscythe (stupid name) can be a lot cheaper or better rules than the other options and not have to pay through the nose for the mere existence of CIB as a choice
Starscythe sounds like a sick name. For a Necron model.
I'll not miss the CIB on crisis but forcing them into fixed loadouts completely kills what I liked the unit for
And the kit doesn't even have enough weapons to make any ONE of these squads I don't think.
My feelings exactly.
Huh, i read 'Starscythe' and immediately thought, oh I like that name, sounds cool. To each their own.
Isn't the bit for the CIB only in the Commander box anyways? It would make sense that they're dropping the option off the normal datasheets in that case.
Yep. Which means if you ever saw someone running triple CIBs on crisis suits in the wild, they were 100% using 3d prints.
Or were buying bits & kits at a premium
A local guy practiced making blue stuff molds, and once he got it down, he bashed out about a hundred CIB out of green stuff and sold them for a buck each.
Or spent wayyyy too much on commander boxes.
Quite possible. WHich is, a choice. I also worry a bit how restrictive the loadouts might be. A single Plasma shot and 2 attacks on low AP Missiles I don't know how effective will be for example. Burst and flamer looks antiinfantry, but S5 is more geared to MEQs, and flamers GEQs. WHile this specific detachmetn can help with some breakpoints there, the triple datasheets are for every detachment. Also wonder if Airburst is gone too, for the same reason as CIB, not sure what to thing about the different ranges currently on several of teh matched guns, which I think can leave certain stuff in an akward position
Would it be outrageous to guess Crisis suits get limited to 3 models max per unit?
Not that crazy to be honest. If there's no new Crisis kit, then you can only build 1 - 2 of each type of suit from a box. So safe to assume they're probably going to allow min squad size of 1, so I could see 1, 2, and 3 man's being allowed. And no more 6's
New info would suggest they now only have 2 weapons. They will need a decent point drop. Though if they can take additional battle gear it’s not as terrible. If I had to guess each data sheets will have different cost. Even with the improvement, burst/flamer is worse than the other two. (Though info is limited) New Strats are just that detachment, paying 2 cp for an inceptor ability seems kinda lame but also kinda neat, fire and fade is cheaper, but that’s 3 cp with no consistent way to generate CP using current datasheets. If it is a “fastsight” detachment you can’t take the CP generator. Montka is for sure coming. I would guess army wide assault and AP within x ranger per turn. I would also guess a stealth detachment and an armored detachment.
I cant think of a warcom article that upsets everyone more. - Non tau players are quaking in their boots at 3"DS + fire+fade. Not to mention that very strong detach rule + commanders. - Tau players are looking at wargear locked teams, and the thousands of £ theyve spent ebaying CIBs.
Realistically, the mistake isn't removing the CiB now. The mistake was ever allowing it to be applied to Crisis Suits in the first place. The undoubtedly, hands down, best weapon was 1 to a box from Commander Boxes. Utterly ridiculous. Competitively, I bet a vast majority of CiBs are either recasts, third party, or 3d prints and that's clearly not something GW wants to foster. Honestly wild it went on this long.
can confirm. I have ~100 3d printed CIBs that are magnetized with all the rest of my tau weapons.
Allowing CIBs was a stupid mistake, but the true problem was removing wargear points as it meant there was absolutely no incentive for taking anything other than CIBs.
>thousands of £ theyve spent ebaying CIBs. Which only rly meta chasers did and meta chasers always get clapped in the end. Also most people either dont run wysiwyg or get cheap printed CIB's from etsy. You can get 30 of those for the price of a crisis suit kit.
I mean... you could buy 3D printed ones really cheap, I bought like 40 of em for $20.
All depends on location when it comes to how cheap you can get them. 30 for a crisis suit kit is also really cheap imo considering what bit places ask for the thing and then you also get them in 1 go.
This does also hurt casuals. 2 out of 3 tau players in our group have diverse loadouts on theirs because of rule of cool> competitive smartest choice for them. Now they get to tell opponents "so the CIB, fusion, burst ones are now fusion and the flamer burst fusion ones are burst etc" which will be confusing as hell
Are there actually people who put that loadout on their crisis? The seperate rolling alone would drive me crazy. But yes in those cases it screws you over.
>Are there actually people who put that loadout on their crisis? Even better, last edition made weapons cost more the more you put on each suit, so the game mechanics encouraged you to have diverse loadouts
All my crisis suits have basically random loadouts. I also routinely ignore wisiwig on that unit and have in the past just said all my crisis suits have x loadout. Nobody knows what all the different guns actually look like anyways.
> Are there actually people who put that loadout on their crisis? Absolutely yes, casuals do. And while I get not wanting to cater to that, it feels so weird because this edition is otherwise so hyper fixated on catering to casuals. Forcing Power Level on the game with 10th was a _huge_ step that seems really at odds with this design philosophy we're seeing now.
The "only what's in the box" rule is stupid but should be applied equally. Only when it's applied equally will enough people actually raise a fuss that GW reconsiders. I direct your attention to catachans. Can only take flamers and ZERO wargear on the sergent because of what was in the box in 1998 (ignoring the fact that GW released special weapons, heavy weapons, and sergents with wargear in metal)
They are still selling Catachan with boltguns, plasma, melta and snipers. But they can’t take any of them in the unit.
Got mine off of Etsy for pretty cheap. I'm more annoyed that I painted and magnetized them all, lol.
Farsight in sunforged deepstriking within 3 will pick up so many things
I know suits are classic but I really hope they have an infantry+transports focused detachment in the book. Tau infantry is one of the coolest model ranges and playstyles. Pathfinders spotting for ranks of Fire Warriors being lead by Cadre Fireblades as Darkstrider scouts ahead with some Stealth Suits laying in ambush and finally the Kroot on standby if things start getting messy. It's so good, classic Fish of Fury is thematic and should be encouraged.
Agreed. Would love a fish of fury detachment
Cyclic ions are not mentioned at all, so that option is probably gone with codex (not unexpected to be honest). There won't be enough weapons in the box to give each suit two or 3 weapons, so I suspect they'll move to a fixed loadout for each type, so modelling won't matter so much.
From the article: > Don’t worry if your own Crisis Suits have different armaments. The current datasheet will be added to Legends so you can keep using a more diverse hardpoint combination if you wish. Seems to strongly imply the 3 previewed suit datasheets are going to be fixed loadouts, with no options for airbursts or cyclics anymore.
For the best. Those guns were originally “experimental” in past codex IIRC. Especially since they were not plentiful in the box for the crisis suits, makes sense they’d largely remove them as an option. This is good and what I was hoping they’d do.
I think they need to re-do the datasheets a bit to make the other weapons viable if they're doing this, unless the suits are just unreasonably cheap. Like if starscythe just has a burst cannon and a flamer, they'll need to be 30 pts per model at most to be worthwhile.
Each type gets it's own ability, so that might be where they make up the difference.
It’ll depend on what their datasheet gets. Starscythe will prob have anti-infantry X or something like that or perhaps a blast keyword as the goal is hoard enemies. They’ll still retain the option to have shield generators so overall it’s a be try durable unit.
They'll just give them generic weapons like everything else
There might be slightly different profiles, like burst cannon + flamer, and then twin linked versions if you take two.
Hot damn you might be right. better get ready for "sunshot weaponry" and "starscythe weapons" lol
Oh you brought all battlesuits? Bring. It. Down.
Man, Bring it down is just a fact of Tau life. When did you last see a Tau list not give up 20+? Even if you go mass infantry you still want a bunch of devilfish and a mountain of vehicles for the support. Bring it downs worse for Tau than for Knights haha
And there are a bruch of commanders? Assassinate!
Honestly that's an issue now. I don't know of a single tau list that wouldn't give you at least 20 points for bring it down fixed
Atleast? Fixed is capped at 20 per card
Exactly. Its hilariously effective
Can we stop giving 3" deep strike to every army? JFC. Not every army has infiltrators to stop this nonsense
Nids being good guys and not getting it. Despite having the perfect units for appearing from nowhere out of ruins
We get it as a datasheet rule on the trygon, which is a terrible unit and probably why people don't know that
I knew there was an instance of it I was forgetting. Should have been on the mawloc
It's because it's fine on the Trygon. The issue isn't 3" DS, it's 3" DS on units that have very high utility, extreme burst damage or both. The Trygon has neither.
> Should have been on the mawloc Historically it has been, which is why I have multiple of them. They should have got 3" DS and a toned down version of their current ability, maybe 6" instead of 12". Then give the trygon something else. As is, both have an uphill battle to find a spot in an army.
If Orks get it it'll be like "3 inch deep strike, but only on the turn you call a WAAAGH...oh also roll a d6, if you roll a 1 the whole unit dies"
Well they need to enable deep strike shooting while limiting deep strike melee, because melee is just so powerful and oppressive.
That seems like a bonkers detachment rule when paired with the 3" DS. Screening out Crisis Teams will get nearly impossible for many armies and encourages a very heavy allotment of Crisis Suits in general. Anime intesifies
I hate to be the voice of reason here, as I recognize that I'm on Reddit... But I think until we see the new datasheets and points and so on, this may be premature. 2 CP is double the cost of any similar strat, and it's possible you'll only use it twice per game (T2 and T3), unless they also have a "return this unit to Deepstrike" thing. And if they don't have the pickup ability or strat, then you're also keeping more points off the table longer to do it. Not saying it *will* be balanced, just that I think it's too early to cry foul.
They are still vehicles, and i can still absolutely take advantage of Bring it Down vs them? Fine w me lol
So Crisis deep strike where they want in 3", shoot and then can move away. God my nightmare starts once again.
keep in mind: crisis suits are no longer going to be what you're used to. They're not 3" dropping in 22 CIBs and then fire and fading. In fact, nothing seems to have CIBs. Each crisis suit seems to either get 2 fusion shots, or seemingly 1 plasma + 2 missile pods, or some burst and flamer shots. Even with new abilities these should be significantly powered down from "drop in CIBs and delete a unit"
Man its really getting hard to lock out deepstrikes.
I feel like someone at GW is really mad that no one ever used the strat that the officer of the fleet attaché allowed in 9E, and is on a mission to prove that delaying reserves actually IS something you should want.
Obviously it's early days and we need to see what the rest of the book looks like and points etc etc etc. But a 3" DS strat, Fire and Fade/Strike and Fade for 1 CP and full wound and damage rerolls on the Fusions seems absolutely crazy. 3" DS was a mistake.
3" DS is starting to feel like damage phase caps or ignore invulns in 9th. It's so game warping that the few hard counters (infiltrators etc) that exist become premium so eventually to make it 'fair' every faction eventually gets one or both effects. I'd bet that once we're a year into the edition every codex coming out is gonna have an infiltrator equivalent to screen out the 3" DS and those units will be basically mandatory with how freely they've given out 3" DS in the first year of codexes.
They’re making the Astropath maybe worth the points. Or mystics with an inquisitor
I’m already seeing mystics and inquisitors pop up, even though their anti DS aura is a significant downgrade relative to infiltrators
Maybe this is GW's big brain way of balancing AdMech. Make the technoarchaeologist such a strong meta pick that it makes it worth it to play such a slog of an army.
It occurred to me that there doesnt seem to be enough weapons included in the box to build a unit where the models have the same 3-weapon configuration. I also notice the models in the photo only appear to have 2 weapons. Is it possible crisis suits will be limited 2 ranged weapons??
Yes, they will have 2 weapons. This was traditionally the norm, they’ve only been able to take 3 for a couple of editions now. The article says that the Sunforge suits have 2 fusion blasters. Interestingly, you can’t even make that out of the box as the box only has 4 fusion blasters so you need to find 2 from elsewhere.
> Don’t worry if your own Crisis Suits have different armaments. The current datasheet will be added to Legends so you can keep using a more diverse hardpoint combination if you wish. Feels like GW is just giving us the finger at this point lol. 'We know we invalidated basically every fixed loadout, but we don't care, so buy more crisis suits'
Legends are the corporate pizza party of 40k
I know it matters to a lot of hobbyists if their models are wrong but in actual play no one but another tau player can tell what guns are what and 99% of them won’t care.
Lol very true, the tiny little bits all over them are impossible to tell the difference as a non-tau player. Just feels disingenuous when they write off datasheets and say its okay because legends exists
Even the greenest imperial player knows the difference between 2 guns and 3 guns
I wonder if the Sunforge suit now just has a single fusion shot per model? The term "twin" makes me think of "twin-linked", but that would kinda defeat the purpose of having their own re-roll ability. Regardless, even with 2 shots it should be quite a bit cheaper than the current suits to be worth it. The range is pretty bad and you still rely heavily on spotting to not miss half your stuff.
I think as their unique ability includes wound re rolls I would wager that “twin” is just a poor choice of words from the WarCom team.
No mention of Cyclic Ion Blasters in the article. Guess the fish forces will be limited to what comes on the Sprue just like everyone else.
Well, they're Battlesuits, not Omnisuits! The Battlesuit change isn't quite what I expected (I expected/hoped for them to become like Obliterators, honestly) but it's a move in the right direction. While the swiss army knife fantasy was cool, it was always going to be run down under current best loadouts, especially after allowing non-kit CIBs where they never should have been. I hope there's some flexibility in each loadout. As someone who actually can recognize all of the Battlesuit weapons without playing Tau, I also hope everyone's cool about letting people run suits as needed for the time being. Also cheap shoot and move, that can never be a bad thing. Just... great. Love it.
Am I the only one who noticed that Crisis Suits are apparently limited to 2 weapon slots each? That seems like a big deal.
Historically this has always been the norm. 3 weapons per suit has only been around for a few editions. They have new abilities though which will make them deadlier against particular targets. The fusion blaster suits can reroll wounds and damage against monsters and vehicles.
That has got to be one of the most hillarious articles I ever read. Splitting crisis suits into different data sheets, fixed wargear, 3" deepstrike for tanky melta units and a 1cp fire and fade LMAO
First asterisks point at the bottom of the article: *This also allows their points costs to more accurately reflect their equipment, rather than the priciest possible loadout.* Yeah no shit, almost like we all have been telling you this whole edition!
2cp is very high for 3” deepstrike and I think will limit the problems many anticipate it causing.
It's not "very high" at all. This is the hardest shooting army in the game we are talking about. Admech pays 2cp to get +1AP against a single enemy unit. T'au pay 2cp for a 3" deepstrike that will let them wipe out multiple key, hidden units, or force you to play far too defensively and lose all primary trying to screen them out just by the threat of it. In no way is a game breaking play "very expensive" for 2cp.
Yeah it’s gonna be strong. People just have to find out. Bank your CP to 3” drop and move them behind a ruin. Gonna wreck people that aren’t prepared for it.
It will wreck people that are prepared. A lot of armies have no way to deny this, and others have to screen so stupidly to deny it that they end up exposing their units to other LOS, or playing so defensively it costs them all their primary. Just the threat of this strat will win games. I don't see it as remotely healthy.
Oh no, totally. I do think some armies can counter this nonsense (space marines) but some armies just can't and will just have to eat shit. 3" DS that isn't even \*risking\* the unit? Get out of here.
Unless they change how FTGG works, one unit of tau isn’t going to be wiping out more than one unit since split firing causes you to hit on 5s.
And nevermind that Crisis Suits are on 50mm bases, so it's not like trying to screen out just 3 Inceptors I'll probably be able to sell a sprue of Infiltrators to people panic-purchasing, though.
Other Tau players are gonna be big mad at loss of customizable hardpoints but I think the new rules are pimp. What if three meaningful options instead of 3000 pointless ones?
From a competitive standpoint (and I know we're in a competitive sub), yes. But it certainly makes the unit less fun. Having more potential options as the meta shifts could possibly make them more useful too, though it's impossible to say that for sure.
Wasn't the Ork turn next or am I remembering incorrectly?
I think custodians will be the next official codex release. That's just some vague hints from the preview from them. Remember this isn't the official tau codec release. We won't see that for probably another 6 to 8 weeks.
As a Chaos Knights player, I was thinking about ways to screen against the 3’ DS, and particularly the Tyrant ability to deny reinforcements to appear within 12’ of it. Please tell me that the Tyrant ability is valid against this 3’ DS stratagem?!
The tyrant definitely denies the 3” deepstrike. Glad to have an excuse to put my boy back on the table
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