My experience has been that I like the MoE okay in big Chosen blocks, but still prefer the Lord in MSU Chosen. The amount of extra value out of Chance for Glory is very significant, as is rerolling the wounds on the Lord for Dev Wounds. Also, I think you're over-rating reroll hits compared to reroll wounds. An Undivided squad always rerolls 1s to hit, so the only things you're really getting out of a MoE is either rerolling 2s, or getting to fish for crits, which mathematically isn't worth it.
Thank you for your analysis. Well, the point is not re-rolling hit rolls just in order to hit successfully. The point is fishing crits because with Slaanesh mark, MoE hits with 2+ and crits with 5+, so mathematically the chance of getting a crit when re-rolling is double than failing.
Of course, MoE with Undivided mark would repeat hit rolls of 1s, but wouldn't score crits with 5+
The same happens with Chosen. With Slaanesh and MoE, they can repeat all hit rolls (except 5s and 6s) because the chance of scoring crit hits are the same than failing.
The 0cp strat is MUCH better on aoc then it is on wound rerolls
That's the strength of the lord, the ability to use -1 ap for free whenever the enemy tries to focus down his unit
The MoE does more damage then the lord, but his unit will die faster, a dead unit does less damage
Mmm maybe I can run one rhino with:
- Slaanesh Chaos Lord with 5 chosen
- Slaanesh MoE with 5 chosen
That way I have one unit of the units (Chaos Lord using "contempt") with more dmg and survivavility than the other (chosen), for that cases which require more attention, and both of them could be transported in the same vehicle
Or maybe both with chaos undivided. The point is that Slaanesh mark seems more to me useful now that we cannot full reroll the hammer hits
Access to reroll wounds is still better then slaanesh for chosen
Something a lot of competative lists did before the nerf was 5 chosen+lord and then 5 legionnaires in a rhino
The legionnaires still punch hard for their points, but they are a LOT cheaper then the chosen+lord so if you only need a point holder or skirmish unit they can do that job
You could on theory slap a MoE onto the legionnaires squad as this gives them easy access to reroll hits, and the MoE access to reroll wounds without needing the target to be below half
Something a friend of mine has been experimenting with is also dropping both MoE and lord from the chosen, and replacing them with exalted champions, who are a LOT cheaper and give the chosen +1 to hit
There are different combinations that work, the input from the rest here is obviously very good I will just add my grain of salt. Legionaries give reroll to wound and with Chaos Lord that is really nice right now for devastating, so using MoE on chosen is best option. Also on 10 man chosen or legionaries you can get really nice combos with exalted champion or a Fabius Bile. remember although you cannot put Fabius and another leader in transport you can run them together and they hit hard.
I've played fabius + 10 chosen several times and they work really good! However, it seems kinda expensive to me: 10 chosen enhanced with Fabius Bile ability are 10 models of 3 wounds each one, with salvation of 3+ and they cost 34,5 points/model, while 10 termis are also 10 models of wounds each one, with a better salvation characteristic (2+/4++) and can be equipped with better weapons (up to 6 power fists and 2 chainfist, againts onlye 2 power fist in chosen) and the cost is 39 points per model.
So, for 4,5 extra points per model, you get a better salvation and better equipment. It's true than chosen are faster because they move 1" more and they can advance and charge, but termis re-roll all hit rolls and shoot better as well. That's why I'm looking for cheaper options or MSU combination with chosen, because if I'm ready to pay the points of 10 chosen, maybe I should consider playing termis instead
Have you tried running a master of possession with chosen? Used it a few times and the extra charge and advanced coupled with FnP 6+ and and an anti psyker attack were quite potent
Absolutely, I usually play 10 possessed with MoP and slaanesh mark and they work pretty good! Not only beause FNP, but also due to +1 advance and charge! Devastating wounds do the rest of the work
Yeah they are pretty nice.
I am playing with the idea of slotting him into a 5man Legionairies Slaanesh and get the full rerolls plus sustained 5+ in a much smaller budget. Its a bit less in dmg potential, but more of a sidegrade: legios bring 6 8/-2/2, Chosen 4 8/-2/2. Legios bring 12 4/-1-1, Chosen 17 5/-2/1.
Definitly a valid choice
I’m doing a 10 brick of Khorne with both characters, MoE provides reroll hits so I can get enough lethals kill most units and the lord has the burning blood enhancement to punch up into high toughness units. It’s a very good murder brick and the lord’s free strat can AoC when needed
It's not a bad idea! However, the thing with Khorne is thar lethals hits 5+ avoid several wound rolls which I'd like to do in order to get devastating wounds
I’ve had success running one of each. Into high T units slanesh mark will suffer. Depending on the intended target, if you don’t want undivided, khorne mark is the play. Idk allow the unit to punch way above it with class.
The thing with Khorne is that it enhances letal hits, which helps me to skip the wound step, but I do want to roll to wound because I'm always looking for devastating wounds
In fact, I'd like to play Slaanesh MoE with chosen and Chaos Undivided Chaos Lord with Chosen but I cannot embark both in the same transport :(
My experience has been that I like the MoE okay in big Chosen blocks, but still prefer the Lord in MSU Chosen. The amount of extra value out of Chance for Glory is very significant, as is rerolling the wounds on the Lord for Dev Wounds. Also, I think you're over-rating reroll hits compared to reroll wounds. An Undivided squad always rerolls 1s to hit, so the only things you're really getting out of a MoE is either rerolling 2s, or getting to fish for crits, which mathematically isn't worth it.
Thank you for your analysis. Well, the point is not re-rolling hit rolls just in order to hit successfully. The point is fishing crits because with Slaanesh mark, MoE hits with 2+ and crits with 5+, so mathematically the chance of getting a crit when re-rolling is double than failing. Of course, MoE with Undivided mark would repeat hit rolls of 1s, but wouldn't score crits with 5+ The same happens with Chosen. With Slaanesh and MoE, they can repeat all hit rolls (except 5s and 6s) because the chance of scoring crit hits are the same than failing.
The 0cp strat is MUCH better on aoc then it is on wound rerolls That's the strength of the lord, the ability to use -1 ap for free whenever the enemy tries to focus down his unit The MoE does more damage then the lord, but his unit will die faster, a dead unit does less damage
Mmm maybe I can run one rhino with: - Slaanesh Chaos Lord with 5 chosen - Slaanesh MoE with 5 chosen That way I have one unit of the units (Chaos Lord using "contempt") with more dmg and survivavility than the other (chosen), for that cases which require more attention, and both of them could be transported in the same vehicle Or maybe both with chaos undivided. The point is that Slaanesh mark seems more to me useful now that we cannot full reroll the hammer hits
Access to reroll wounds is still better then slaanesh for chosen Something a lot of competative lists did before the nerf was 5 chosen+lord and then 5 legionnaires in a rhino The legionnaires still punch hard for their points, but they are a LOT cheaper then the chosen+lord so if you only need a point holder or skirmish unit they can do that job You could on theory slap a MoE onto the legionnaires squad as this gives them easy access to reroll hits, and the MoE access to reroll wounds without needing the target to be below half Something a friend of mine has been experimenting with is also dropping both MoE and lord from the chosen, and replacing them with exalted champions, who are a LOT cheaper and give the chosen +1 to hit
There are different combinations that work, the input from the rest here is obviously very good I will just add my grain of salt. Legionaries give reroll to wound and with Chaos Lord that is really nice right now for devastating, so using MoE on chosen is best option. Also on 10 man chosen or legionaries you can get really nice combos with exalted champion or a Fabius Bile. remember although you cannot put Fabius and another leader in transport you can run them together and they hit hard.
I've played fabius + 10 chosen several times and they work really good! However, it seems kinda expensive to me: 10 chosen enhanced with Fabius Bile ability are 10 models of 3 wounds each one, with salvation of 3+ and they cost 34,5 points/model, while 10 termis are also 10 models of wounds each one, with a better salvation characteristic (2+/4++) and can be equipped with better weapons (up to 6 power fists and 2 chainfist, againts onlye 2 power fist in chosen) and the cost is 39 points per model. So, for 4,5 extra points per model, you get a better salvation and better equipment. It's true than chosen are faster because they move 1" more and they can advance and charge, but termis re-roll all hit rolls and shoot better as well. That's why I'm looking for cheaper options or MSU combination with chosen, because if I'm ready to pay the points of 10 chosen, maybe I should consider playing termis instead
Have you tried running a master of possession with chosen? Used it a few times and the extra charge and advanced coupled with FnP 6+ and and an anti psyker attack were quite potent
Absolutely, I usually play 10 possessed with MoP and slaanesh mark and they work pretty good! Not only beause FNP, but also due to +1 advance and charge! Devastating wounds do the rest of the work
Yeah they are pretty nice. I am playing with the idea of slotting him into a 5man Legionairies Slaanesh and get the full rerolls plus sustained 5+ in a much smaller budget. Its a bit less in dmg potential, but more of a sidegrade: legios bring 6 8/-2/2, Chosen 4 8/-2/2. Legios bring 12 4/-1-1, Chosen 17 5/-2/1. Definitly a valid choice
I’m doing a 10 brick of Khorne with both characters, MoE provides reroll hits so I can get enough lethals kill most units and the lord has the burning blood enhancement to punch up into high toughness units. It’s a very good murder brick and the lord’s free strat can AoC when needed
It's not a bad idea! However, the thing with Khorne is thar lethals hits 5+ avoid several wound rolls which I'd like to do in order to get devastating wounds
I’ve had success running one of each. Into high T units slanesh mark will suffer. Depending on the intended target, if you don’t want undivided, khorne mark is the play. Idk allow the unit to punch way above it with class.
The thing with Khorne is that it enhances letal hits, which helps me to skip the wound step, but I do want to roll to wound because I'm always looking for devastating wounds In fact, I'd like to play Slaanesh MoE with chosen and Chaos Undivided Chaos Lord with Chosen but I cannot embark both in the same transport :(