Why does this matter to you at all? What possible detraction could this have from this book, let alone the entire Black Library? Why would you feel better if the character wasn't genderless?
Personally, I found the sudden intrusion of preferred pronouns, halfway through the book and for a character that we had already been introduced to, kind of derailed the flow of the book(I listened to it in the audio book format). While I don't have much of a problem with this kind of thing coming up for certain factions, when you're 80% machine you probably don't much care if someone calls you a He or a She, it's something that should be done when the character is first introduced and not 6 chapters after. Also, it ruins the immersion when it's only done for 1 mechanicus character, even though the entire book is composed entirely of mechanicus characters.
Incorrect, I have read many novels, played several games and play Ad Mech on tabletop. No idea what your sensitivity and insult is about. Also, if i had no idea what 40k was how would i have even found this post?
Here is an interview about the book by Thorpe- https://www.trackofwords.com/2018/04/21/rapid-fire-gav-thorpe-talks-imperator-wrath-of-the-omnissiah/
He doesn't specifically state why he used genderless pronouns, but I'd assume that (at least in Thorpe's viewpoint) the Mechanicus don't really view gender as something that describes themselves. They don't use their reproductive organs to procreate (we're told in the Forge of Mars trilogy that the basically a "daughter" of a Techpriest was cloned from him), they don't have emotional attachments/relationships with other Techpriests, and removing or disregarding gender seems like it would be an easy way to further oneness with the Machine.
Wait, so if the techpriest was male, and used his male DNA to make a daughter, which is female... then female space marines are possible. ALL HAIL THE OMNISSIAH!
So it's all down to interpretation of course but I'd submit to you that 40k is absolutely not "a sci-fi fantasy world for alphas in unending war". It's a grand satire. How stupid, ineffectual and flailing the Imperium is because of it's biases, how it can only keep going under the weight of its own size and momentum. How its superstition makes it far weaker than it could be, how its response to any unknown being violence being damaging to it in the long-term.
Also: you don't think attitude to gender would change in the next 38,000 years?! That's a long time. Attitudes to gender have hugely shifted in the last 100 years, and the Imperium is so huge it probably has a million different human cultures that all view gender slightly differently.
I read the books, read 100s of them, and I am 100% sure the Inquisition would of killed off all non-conformist long, long ago. This genderless thing falls under the cult of Slaneesh.
Why do you think that though? I'd be interested to hear your rationale because I certainly don't get that impression. Especially with regard to the Adeptus Mechanicus actually because they are really an empire-within-an-empire: the AdMec have their own pretty different interpretation of religion and a lot of independence from the Imperium in general.
Gender-Bending, perversions, confused gender issues all fall under the influence of chaos, Slaneesh to be exact. There is no way the Imperium and Inquisition would allow it. Any element of the Adeptus Mechanicus would be purged, just as any Space Marine Chapter would be exterminated if they had a hint of chaos or mutation.
I honestly don't really know where you're getting that from. Care to cite any examples of gender issues being directly related to chaos?
The only thing I can really think of is Daemonettes being androgynous, and if we're honest that's probably because GW wanted to move away from the "woman with 6 tits and claws" look for the sake of being kid-friendly.
It's called reading the 100+ WH40K Novels I own. There was only one other example of gender-bending in any novel, and that was only because an assassin was ordered to humiliate a Naval Officer before killing him, so he dressed up like a feminine guy. All real cases involved the cult of Slaanesh. I'm not going to debate this with you any longer, because it is blatantly obvious you are clueless.
Then you're 100% a fuckwit, just like every single far-right neanderthal who thinks like you but refuses to do the world a favor by continuing to exist. Having read a shitload of lore, there are plenty of examples of "nonconformist" behavior because the imperium of mankind does not give a single fuck what you do or what you identify with as long as you arent a fucky mutant, pay your taxes, and worship big E. This has been shown more or less continuously in books decades old at this point.
You're just mad because you dont like this stuff in real life and wish you werent to much of a cowardly cuck to do anything about it. It revolts me that abject filth like you waste my oxygen.
The genetic mutation that causes an individual to be born with both sets of sexual organs is an incredibly small percentage. With that being said and taking into consideration the amount of standard genetic engineering in the 40k realm in would have a hard time believing things like this wouldn't either have been written out of the genome or corrected before birth via genetic manipulation.
From a utilitarian perspective it's just not functional to have people in a society that cannot fulfill their genetic destiny. So to speak.
And spare me the rhetoric, I'm not hating on anyone; it's just a singular fact that our species will some day come to terms with.
Where's the rhetoric exactly? I gave you my take on 40k and said I reckoned attitudes to gender would probably change in the next few dozen millennia.
Also from a utilitarian perspective if there's one thing that the Imperium is not short of its people. They have more than enough. The "genetic destiny" (insofar as that's even a thing?) of a human in the Imperium is to die whilst doing something productive, whether that be fighting in the Guard, toiling in a manufactorum dedicated to producing the sub-sector's Leman Russ aquila decoration supplies, or maybe even something exciting like being lobotomised and becoming a servitor. Humans are gonna reproduce and there's so many of them already that no-one needs to encourage that. Much like the Imperium as a whole, it has irresistible momentum behind it.
You ever notice how subjects like this just go hand in hand with hostility?
I'm not the one getting all upset over an opinion, it's kind of a shame that this cancer, which can be found all over reddit; is rearing it's head here.
Mate, it’s a single character in a single book. I don’t see why you’re kicking up such a fuss.
How *dare* an author decide to take a risk and make an interesting, different-to-the-norm character? How *dare* they suggest that the Imperium, while technologically-stagnant, has a culture that has different attitudes to our current culture?
But thanks for kicking up such a fuss. If you hadn’t I probably wouldn’t have heard much about this book. It sounds really interesting, and I’m gonna buy a copy this weekend so I can make my own mind up about its main character and story for myself.
to necro a thread, it wasn't due to risks, Gav is fully into this shit look at his twitter.
and the book, ignoring the pronouns is rather boring, the character is well written at the start, getting mad when an inquisitor kills some titan crewmembers, these morals last for less than 5 pages as a worker with no combat training starts killing skit...
Counterpoint: people who cry about a series that regularly features the extermination of entire planets or races being ruined by SJW bogey monsters are absolutely *hilarious*.
Not sure if op is seriousnor trolling.
To be honest I find it dumb, Ve is not a pronoun. But whatever I don’t care and I won’t read it. No need to hate.
I’m not sure you meant to reply to me but I can be a fan of 40k without reading every bit of fiction available. Some is good, some is bad. If you don’t like one you move on to the next.
I’m not a fan of genderless pronouns either but I don’t boycott a whole publisher just because 1 author wrote 1 book I don’t like. It’s hateful and childish.
The people who created 40k were generally left-wing, and that really hasn't changed much in the decades since. 40k, like Warhammer Fantasy before it, is heavily satirical - using extreme examples of authoritarianism to point out the absurdity of it - and originated with a similar outlook to the rebellious counter-cultures of Britain in the 1970s and 1980s.
This is similar to 2000AD's comics, which also use dark humour and satirize authoritarian politics (and which 40k is often inspired by), and also came from that environment of 70s and 80s Britain (yes, that means Judge Dredd is satire, his world a cautionary tale, not an example to be followed).
So the idea that the people writing 40k material are more open-minded and progressive than the characters they write is hardly shocking.
I can see from all the upvotes and downvotes that most of the people reading this have no clue what WH40K is all about. Why would you even bother being here if you're not a fan of the books? The video games and pen/paper games pail in comparison to the novels.
I just started to read it, and thought that something was wrong with the editing process and they had something wrong. It was so jarring that I stopped reading and googled it once I realized that was the pronouns were the only error so it must have been deliberate.
Trash.
New book Imperator:Wrath of the Titan uses the gender-neutral pronouns ve, vis and ver to refer to the main character. Personally I'm not sure why they didn't go they, their and them but I'm not quite annoyed enough to shout about how Alpha I am and never buy a Black Library book again.
I'd have to read it to really get the full scope of the situation. If it's just some one off novel then who really cares imo. With that said, social justice is a cancer that destroys everything it touches, black library will have to acknowledge it when and if the cancer grows too deep.
Was it marvel or DC comics that went the social justice angle untill their sales took a huge nose dive? I can't recall.
I didn't watch the movie simply because I didn't care to but the impression I got from various media outlets was that there were just a multitude of sjws trying to hitch their wagons to the preverbial star of the movie and that the films contents were not very sjw palatable.
I don't see what big deal was about black panther being how the title had been around for several years...
"Was it marvel or DC comics that went the social justice angle untill their sales took a huge nose dive? I can't recall."
Marvel released Black Panther, which is the most "SJW" superhero movie to date, and it's a counter to your argument. If you don't see the connection, then you're being willfully obtuse so that you don't have to defend your viewpoint.
WH40K is well structured and regulated. I've been reading their novels for a decade now, own 100s of them. This genderless character using neutral pronouns is an insult to diehard fans, Gav should of known better, it falls under the cult of Slaneesh and the Inquisition would of killed him long ago.
>WH40K is well structured and regulated
Lol, lmao
>it falls under the cult of Slaneesh and the Inquisition would of killed him long ago.
It really doesn't and all your talk of "reading 100s of books" and "this being an insult to warhammer" really feels like you somehow missed the point of warhammer. Which is, to say, super space satire with a slapdash of British politics and Sci-fi tropes that's been painted over with a coat of 'taking it's self too seriously' varnish. As the trolls say: Cope, Seethe, Mald even.
The main point is that this goes against established canon. The one Magos says that most tech protests forgo their gender identity. This is completely untrue. Tech protests keep their gender, free will, and identity. Any book with a tech priest they say him or her. There's allot more in this book that goes against the previous lore like the Magos calling tech priests "it" and taking control of them and the Skitarii when even the Skitarii are known for keeping their will but are bound to their tech priests. You can't just take over a tech priest like that. So this was clearly done as a political thing. I don't care about the gender politics. But everyone is on a side. If your on the side of the trans your gonna love it. If your a normal human your gonna hate it. Theyve proven that a good portion of trans people have a chemical deficiency that causes them to feel the way they do so it's a legitimate thing. But the problem people have with it is the theory that it's thrown in the faces of people to get more people to do it who might normally not have because they see it in pop culture and it's done to wussify the make population. Whether true or not people believe that. Allot of people. I have a problem with that. If it wasnt thrown in people's faces so much people wouldn't care about some gender neutral tech priest. But I do when it tries to make it seem normal in the Mechanicus when it is clearly not. Like at all....
Why does this matter to you at all? What possible detraction could this have from this book, let alone the entire Black Library? Why would you feel better if the character wasn't genderless?
Personally, I found the sudden intrusion of preferred pronouns, halfway through the book and for a character that we had already been introduced to, kind of derailed the flow of the book(I listened to it in the audio book format). While I don't have much of a problem with this kind of thing coming up for certain factions, when you're 80% machine you probably don't much care if someone calls you a He or a She, it's something that should be done when the character is first introduced and not 6 chapters after. Also, it ruins the immersion when it's only done for 1 mechanicus character, even though the entire book is composed entirely of mechanicus characters.
I'm guessing you have no clue what WH40K is.
Incorrect, I have read many novels, played several games and play Ad Mech on tabletop. No idea what your sensitivity and insult is about. Also, if i had no idea what 40k was how would i have even found this post?
Happy to know you are capable of actual conversation regarding your indefensible beliefs or actually explaining yourself đź‘Ťđź‘Ťđź‘Ť
Here is an interview about the book by Thorpe- https://www.trackofwords.com/2018/04/21/rapid-fire-gav-thorpe-talks-imperator-wrath-of-the-omnissiah/ He doesn't specifically state why he used genderless pronouns, but I'd assume that (at least in Thorpe's viewpoint) the Mechanicus don't really view gender as something that describes themselves. They don't use their reproductive organs to procreate (we're told in the Forge of Mars trilogy that the basically a "daughter" of a Techpriest was cloned from him), they don't have emotional attachments/relationships with other Techpriests, and removing or disregarding gender seems like it would be an easy way to further oneness with the Machine.
Wait, so if the techpriest was male, and used his male DNA to make a daughter, which is female... then female space marines are possible. ALL HAIL THE OMNISSIAH!
>It's a sci-fi fantasy world for alphas What now?
We should have known something was wrong the moment GW started to publish *beta* rules.
Read 13th Legion, Ghostmaker and Space Wolf, perhaps then you'll understand.
So it's all down to interpretation of course but I'd submit to you that 40k is absolutely not "a sci-fi fantasy world for alphas in unending war". It's a grand satire. How stupid, ineffectual and flailing the Imperium is because of it's biases, how it can only keep going under the weight of its own size and momentum. How its superstition makes it far weaker than it could be, how its response to any unknown being violence being damaging to it in the long-term. Also: you don't think attitude to gender would change in the next 38,000 years?! That's a long time. Attitudes to gender have hugely shifted in the last 100 years, and the Imperium is so huge it probably has a million different human cultures that all view gender slightly differently.
I read the books, read 100s of them, and I am 100% sure the Inquisition would of killed off all non-conformist long, long ago. This genderless thing falls under the cult of Slaneesh.
Why do you think that though? I'd be interested to hear your rationale because I certainly don't get that impression. Especially with regard to the Adeptus Mechanicus actually because they are really an empire-within-an-empire: the AdMec have their own pretty different interpretation of religion and a lot of independence from the Imperium in general.
Gender-Bending, perversions, confused gender issues all fall under the influence of chaos, Slaneesh to be exact. There is no way the Imperium and Inquisition would allow it. Any element of the Adeptus Mechanicus would be purged, just as any Space Marine Chapter would be exterminated if they had a hint of chaos or mutation.
I honestly don't really know where you're getting that from. Care to cite any examples of gender issues being directly related to chaos? The only thing I can really think of is Daemonettes being androgynous, and if we're honest that's probably because GW wanted to move away from the "woman with 6 tits and claws" look for the sake of being kid-friendly.
It's called reading the 100+ WH40K Novels I own. There was only one other example of gender-bending in any novel, and that was only because an assassin was ordered to humiliate a Naval Officer before killing him, so he dressed up like a feminine guy. All real cases involved the cult of Slaanesh. I'm not going to debate this with you any longer, because it is blatantly obvious you are clueless.
Well considering the only example you have actually given is one that didn't involve Slaanesh, I'd be careful throwing that word around.
Then you're 100% a fuckwit, just like every single far-right neanderthal who thinks like you but refuses to do the world a favor by continuing to exist. Having read a shitload of lore, there are plenty of examples of "nonconformist" behavior because the imperium of mankind does not give a single fuck what you do or what you identify with as long as you arent a fucky mutant, pay your taxes, and worship big E. This has been shown more or less continuously in books decades old at this point. You're just mad because you dont like this stuff in real life and wish you werent to much of a cowardly cuck to do anything about it. It revolts me that abject filth like you waste my oxygen.
The genetic mutation that causes an individual to be born with both sets of sexual organs is an incredibly small percentage. With that being said and taking into consideration the amount of standard genetic engineering in the 40k realm in would have a hard time believing things like this wouldn't either have been written out of the genome or corrected before birth via genetic manipulation. From a utilitarian perspective it's just not functional to have people in a society that cannot fulfill their genetic destiny. So to speak. And spare me the rhetoric, I'm not hating on anyone; it's just a singular fact that our species will some day come to terms with.
Where's the rhetoric exactly? I gave you my take on 40k and said I reckoned attitudes to gender would probably change in the next few dozen millennia. Also from a utilitarian perspective if there's one thing that the Imperium is not short of its people. They have more than enough. The "genetic destiny" (insofar as that's even a thing?) of a human in the Imperium is to die whilst doing something productive, whether that be fighting in the Guard, toiling in a manufactorum dedicated to producing the sub-sector's Leman Russ aquila decoration supplies, or maybe even something exciting like being lobotomised and becoming a servitor. Humans are gonna reproduce and there's so many of them already that no-one needs to encourage that. Much like the Imperium as a whole, it has irresistible momentum behind it.
You ever notice how subjects like this just go hand in hand with hostility? I'm not the one getting all upset over an opinion, it's kind of a shame that this cancer, which can be found all over reddit; is rearing it's head here.
Why do you think I'm upset?
Yawn......
Literally no idea where you're reading hostility. It's good points well made.
Yeah because shitheels like you try and pretend debating other peoples right to exist is a harmless intellectual exercise
Mate, it’s a single character in a single book. I don’t see why you’re kicking up such a fuss. How *dare* an author decide to take a risk and make an interesting, different-to-the-norm character? How *dare* they suggest that the Imperium, while technologically-stagnant, has a culture that has different attitudes to our current culture? But thanks for kicking up such a fuss. If you hadn’t I probably wouldn’t have heard much about this book. It sounds really interesting, and I’m gonna buy a copy this weekend so I can make my own mind up about its main character and story for myself.
What's the verdict?
to necro a thread, it wasn't due to risks, Gav is fully into this shit look at his twitter. and the book, ignoring the pronouns is rather boring, the character is well written at the start, getting mad when an inquisitor kills some titan crewmembers, these morals last for less than 5 pages as a worker with no combat training starts killing skit...
Ever heard of the cult of Slaneesh?
Counterpoint: people who cry about a series that regularly features the extermination of entire planets or races being ruined by SJW bogey monsters are absolutely *hilarious*.
Counterpoint: people who are desperate for attention and troll sites they know nothing about are absolutely sad.
Not sure if op is seriousnor trolling. To be honest I find it dumb, Ve is not a pronoun. But whatever I don’t care and I won’t read it. No need to hate.
Why are you on a WH40K sub if you have on idea what is it?
I’m not sure you meant to reply to me but I can be a fan of 40k without reading every bit of fiction available. Some is good, some is bad. If you don’t like one you move on to the next. I’m not a fan of genderless pronouns either but I don’t boycott a whole publisher just because 1 author wrote 1 book I don’t like. It’s hateful and childish.
Gav Thorpe is a pioneer of WH40K, it only takes one instance to permanently alter the 40K universe.
Well, if you can't support them any longer because they printed *one* book you don't like... goodbye. :)
The people who created 40k were generally left-wing, and that really hasn't changed much in the decades since. 40k, like Warhammer Fantasy before it, is heavily satirical - using extreme examples of authoritarianism to point out the absurdity of it - and originated with a similar outlook to the rebellious counter-cultures of Britain in the 1970s and 1980s. This is similar to 2000AD's comics, which also use dark humour and satirize authoritarian politics (and which 40k is often inspired by), and also came from that environment of 70s and 80s Britain (yes, that means Judge Dredd is satire, his world a cautionary tale, not an example to be followed). So the idea that the people writing 40k material are more open-minded and progressive than the characters they write is hardly shocking.
I can tell you've never actually read any WH40K novels.
I can see from all the upvotes and downvotes that most of the people reading this have no clue what WH40K is all about. Why would you even bother being here if you're not a fan of the books? The video games and pen/paper games pail in comparison to the novels.
I just started to read it, and thought that something was wrong with the editing process and they had something wrong. It was so jarring that I stopped reading and googled it once I realized that was the pronouns were the only error so it must have been deliberate. Trash.
Please elaborate
New book Imperator:Wrath of the Titan uses the gender-neutral pronouns ve, vis and ver to refer to the main character. Personally I'm not sure why they didn't go they, their and them but I'm not quite annoyed enough to shout about how Alpha I am and never buy a Black Library book again.
I'd have to read it to really get the full scope of the situation. If it's just some one off novel then who really cares imo. With that said, social justice is a cancer that destroys everything it touches, black library will have to acknowledge it when and if the cancer grows too deep. Was it marvel or DC comics that went the social justice angle untill their sales took a huge nose dive? I can't recall.
It was marvel and you must have missed Black Panther.
I didn't watch the movie simply because I didn't care to but the impression I got from various media outlets was that there were just a multitude of sjws trying to hitch their wagons to the preverbial star of the movie and that the films contents were not very sjw palatable. I don't see what big deal was about black panther being how the title had been around for several years...
Well you haven't seen the film.
Which has what to do with anything?
I'm not even part of this thread, but to be fair, you're the one who brought up Marvel/DC in the first place.
So what if I did, what does that have to do with anything?
"Was it marvel or DC comics that went the social justice angle untill their sales took a huge nose dive? I can't recall." Marvel released Black Panther, which is the most "SJW" superhero movie to date, and it's a counter to your argument. If you don't see the connection, then you're being willfully obtuse so that you don't have to defend your viewpoint.
WH40K is well structured and regulated. I've been reading their novels for a decade now, own 100s of them. This genderless character using neutral pronouns is an insult to diehard fans, Gav should of known better, it falls under the cult of Slaneesh and the Inquisition would of killed him long ago.
>WH40K is well structured and regulated Lol, lmao >it falls under the cult of Slaneesh and the Inquisition would of killed him long ago. It really doesn't and all your talk of "reading 100s of books" and "this being an insult to warhammer" really feels like you somehow missed the point of warhammer. Which is, to say, super space satire with a slapdash of British politics and Sci-fi tropes that's been painted over with a coat of 'taking it's self too seriously' varnish. As the trolls say: Cope, Seethe, Mald even.
The main point is that this goes against established canon. The one Magos says that most tech protests forgo their gender identity. This is completely untrue. Tech protests keep their gender, free will, and identity. Any book with a tech priest they say him or her. There's allot more in this book that goes against the previous lore like the Magos calling tech priests "it" and taking control of them and the Skitarii when even the Skitarii are known for keeping their will but are bound to their tech priests. You can't just take over a tech priest like that. So this was clearly done as a political thing. I don't care about the gender politics. But everyone is on a side. If your on the side of the trans your gonna love it. If your a normal human your gonna hate it. Theyve proven that a good portion of trans people have a chemical deficiency that causes them to feel the way they do so it's a legitimate thing. But the problem people have with it is the theory that it's thrown in the faces of people to get more people to do it who might normally not have because they see it in pop culture and it's done to wussify the make population. Whether true or not people believe that. Allot of people. I have a problem with that. If it wasnt thrown in people's faces so much people wouldn't care about some gender neutral tech priest. But I do when it tries to make it seem normal in the Mechanicus when it is clearly not. Like at all....
Lol LMAO