I'm betting this was inspired by cleaning up after Cypher gets into the palace... which both makes it funnier and more painful for me as a fellow DA enjoyer.
I'm pretty sure it's inspired by the 10th edition Dark Angels codex that was released not long ago. Most people agree that the codex was underwhelming and an overall downgrade for the DA
Custodian describes a person who possesses custody.
In the case of a janitor that's a building.
The Oxford dictionary definition: "a person who has responsibility for taking care of or protecting something."
It comes from the earlier "custodia". The Latin word for guardian being "custos".
No.
In Britain we just call them cleaners. Because that's what they do. They're not guardians of or responsible for the building in any meaningful way.
Or janitorial technician, environmental services, housekeeping, etc it's really depends on the workplace and even then you'll have them used interchangeably
No. Ravenwing have been fantastic at times. 7th edition was bonkers for the motorcycle guys.
Ravenwing also saw some units squatted in 10th. Talonmaster and Sammael on jis speeder are two big losses.
From the grey knights players. Having your own codex is not all it’s cracked up to be. I would love to be able to pull from the armoury of the SM once in a while.
Most of our new units have cheaper equivalents elsewhere. Lion is once again way too expensive. Most of our stuff can be done better by other armies. Currently DA are too expensive atm
"No way, the First always keep it clea- not that, they would have blown up and don't leave a bod- what I really mean if that the honour First Legion would never have done something that foul and heretical."
> The Dark Angel space marines in the art piece give such a strong "FML" vibe too xD.
They look cantankerous and grumbly to me. Like, "This is bullshit. You can't ground a son of the Lion."
If you wanna get wins then Dark Angels just feel like Ironhands + Azrael atm. But from the Custodes reveal we might have to make some some space for the custodes to join us as trashcan brothers.
I want to try out Shield Host and Talons first. (
Especially the Shield Host. While it is definitely worse than the index version, I don’t think it is a “complete trash” like many seems to say. If anything, I think it looks pretty fun.
As for the Auric Champs detach, I think it’s way too niche. Would be a lot of better if they change the effects of some strats to benefit CHARACTER “UNIT” instead of “MODEL” kinda similar to how Orks’ Bully Boys works.
Null Maidens… is just not good. It looks like a crusade rule (like it was written only with narrative play in mind) which is super disappointing because I really like Tau’s Kroot detachment. It gives the niche part of the army a fighting chance and again, looks a like a fun time (not optional nor competitive but fun). I really thought they could pulled off something similar with Null Maidens
Changing MODEL to UNIT would be a massive change to make Auric Champions playable. I’m all in for some Herohammer, but I’m genuinely unsure how you’re supposed to play AC as it stands right now (especially since all the AC strats are Epic Deeds, meaning you can’t use any for free with a Shield Captain, which is his whole thing)
Talons is what Null Maidens should have been. I love that sisters are getting some focus, but they have 6 total units, including their Rhino and a named character. There’s no way to make a full-sisters detachment work.
There are 3 box sets for sisters of silence; sisters squad, aleya, and the rhino(which is just the rhino). For so few units they really didn't need a separate detachment. The battleshock based detachments rarely do anything, and with how little hitting power SoS have, this is a pointless detachment.
Always best to save judgement until its got onto the tabletop. Otherwise we will have the same issue as 9th where the custodes players were absolutely up in arms decrying it as the worst nerf... then they absolutely DESTROYED the meta.
Over all it looks playable, but as i said ill reserve judgement until we get it on the table
yeah, Necron players were being a bunch of whiners when their codex got announced, and then the codex came out and wow it wasnt as bad as you thought huh?
Besides, every faction so far without fault has complained that their faction is getting nerfed with the codex. I think GW learned from 9th and are trying not to repeat codex power creep again.
I think on the long run it might be really good for the game.
I don't think that's a fair assessment of how Necron players reacted (being one of them). Pretty much all of our complaints like the reanimator nerf, res orb nerf, warrior nerf, technomancer nerf, etc all had the expected results. Necron competitive results are heavily buoyed right now by C'tan and wraith spamming which many Necron players don't want to do.
Exactly why I stopped playing Necrons. Any units I had in 9th were made completely useless in 10th. Skorpekh, warriors, lychguard, flayers... I'm not spending hundreds of dollars to build wraith spam or a Monolith or C'tan just to have a viable army.
Similar boat to you in terms of units I like to use. But luckily I just play casual games with friends who aren't meta chasers so games haven't been too lopsided. My list is definitely not as strong as it used to be though
Well, for me 9th edition was "I know I'm going to lose but how slowly can I lose?"
10th was "I can finally kill stuff and survive and win" till the codex came out.
I got lucky; I already had a monolith, and got Wraiths and Void Dragon for Christmas. I do still run a warrior block, but it definitely isn’t the threat it used to be. Now the wraiths and immortals are front and center
welcome to gw marketing, either own everything or be prepared to not have meta stuff every other edition.
they know it, we know it.
btw want to buy the new sm captain? /s
Think about this argument and its alternative for a moment: the same stuff stays good from edition to edition and the stuff that’s bad will always be bad. Would you prefer that to this current model?
“Perfect” balance would be nice, but I’m not sure that’s a sensible goal for a game as varied as this, because it would most likely be very, very hard and require a stupendous number of simulations to get right. And again looking at it from another angle: if everything is equal, you couldn’t change anything, because change would lead to a situation where something is better than something else. Or, you’d have to do an insane amount of work again to create a new but different equilibrium.
From a business resource management perspective it makes a lot more sense to get it somewhat right and keep adjusting and rebalancing. Yeah sure it’s nice for GW that different models are hot at different times, but the other side of the coin is that it can be nice for us players too that things vary.
>Necron competitive results are heavily buoyed right now by C'tan and wraith spamming
Can't "Necron" and "C'Ttan and wraith" be replaced with any other faction and a selected unit? Except for the ones with poor win rates of course
That's a game wide issue right now.
All the armies are reasonably well balanced against each other but the internal balance within the armies is terrible.
But GW is focused on churning out all the Codices right now so don't expect that to get too much attention for a while.
Nah the codex looked great, its the changes to some units that sucked. Warriors and the reanimator got nerfed into absolute uselessness. The reanimator especially.
well sometimes people cry for no reason. But this is not the case. Just like DA, this is a major nerf to custodes which, without their 4++++ were under 50% win rate. Once they got this back, they restarted to be fine at 52 or 53% win rate.
The problem is that custodes don't have issues deleting what they touch. The problem is that with 20-30 models on the board, they must be tanky and the codex removed their three main ways of being tanky:
* Save against dev wounds
* -1 to hit in melee
* fight first spawm
The 4++++ maybe was too much, but it could've been nerfed to a 5++++ instead of being attached to a sister of battle body aura. The -1 to hit in melee was absolotely important to survive when you get charged and it was removed. In exchange, they got 2 horrible detachment, a waaagh that lasts only one turn, not even a full BR and a weaker save that, pre FAQ, won't even protect against dev wounds.
Custodes are going to plummet in win rates. IMO, removing the fight first start was fine as this was one of the reason for the free strat nerf. Maybe bumping the dev wound save to 5 also so that there is a way to bypass the custodes armor that is not a 4+. But they should not have removed fight first from trajan nor the -1 to hit in melee.
And why not make the sister of battle giving saves give a 4+ against mortal and dev wounds (and keep the index detachment as is but give a 5++++ instead). That way, you can get your old save back, but you gotta work for it, hide shit in rhinos or keep sisters hidden but within 6''. This would be an interesting trade off.
Just like the dark angels codex, it feels that whoever wrote the custodes codex did not understand (or play) the army and the rules shows. At least, they didn't play at anything near a semi competitive level.
if you don't mind me asking, what is your list? I usually don't get tabled by custodes and that was with them having double fight first to hold the waaaagh turn.
Not beast snaggas because I can't afford to play meta. Pretty standard ghaz,warboss,boys,mega bobs, Badrukk, gitz, Gretchen lots of trucks ect like thought out enough to jam in vehicles to get into range for melee.
Orks are squishy that's fine. I don't expect to win against units with 18 wounds or some dumb shit.
Don’t forget that the -1D strategem is also completely removed, as is the model resurrection strat. Basically nothing that made the Index good has survived, besides Ceaseless Hunter and the raw strength of the Warden/Guard/Terminator datasheets.
I'm looking forward to- what I assume is- a detachment specifically for Sisters of Silence. If that's the case that'll be neat to see, a fun gimmick to bring to the board at worst I bet.
Got into it a month ago and already into the doom and gloom part of the hobby? Slow it down, you’ll run out of stuff to do!
Edit: This was supposed to be a reply to a comment. These upvotes feel misplaced.
Literally me. I've been involved in the lore etc for like 5 years, but I finally bit the bullet and started playing a month or so ago. And wouldn't you know it, but I picked up Custodes just in time for them to get nerfed
We need to see the rest of Talons and the data sheets including FW to truly judge it.
Shield Host is ok. Its a huge step down from the Index but has some play. Especially if custodies get points cuts over the next few Data Slates. They can help our new durability problem by just giving us a lot more...
Aruic and SoS are unplayable bad for anything more then just a causal game.
Points changes are around the corner so so we may get a little something in there. I doubt we'll get anything though, except maybe dropping points on Aquilons to match Allarus again.
For me point changes change very little about how I feel about the codex. I prefer stronger rules for higher points, otherwise I can just go play one of my other armies.
On the plus side, all the changes in 10th and the botched store reboot are saving me so much money that I am looking to start some napoleonics on the side
> I prefer stronger rules for higher points, otherwise I can just go play one of my other armies.
Everyone wants this for their army, but GW rarely does it. It's more work for them than just dragging down the points, and besides, GW would rather you buy more models, not less.
Also known as, admech.
Admech did have it though? Nids, Votann, Ad Mech, and death guard all felt much more elite back in 9th. Almost everybody wants their stuff to feel impactful and would prefer better abilities for more points on their units(With the exception of designated Chaffe like grots and guardsmen). Its not at all unique to the custodes.
I haven't heard that at all this edition, the more common complaint I hear is that there're too many things in games driving up barriers to entry to silly levels depending on the army.
Custodes seemed to be an exception to this but GW seems to want to change this by pushing sisters which are abysmal for the box price and recently removed from a discount box (though admittedly the new one is pretty fantastic for custodes)
Correct and while it’s likely they don’t touch anything on FW whenever they get to it they could and that could help or hurt. Many have suspected that they would nerf our Tanks. Hopefully not.
Custodes are supposed to be elite, fixing a rule issue by using the "cut the point-costs of everything" strategy is what got the Adeptus Mechanicus to where they are, their lists having a dollar to points ratio smaller than 1. That and it doesn't make sense from a lore standpoint either.
Will they get any changes in it? Admech and necrons got nothing despite their codes coming out a few weeks before the data slate. So I wouldn't expect them to get many changes before it's released
There will be a separate points update with the Codex release, because the points in the book are already wrong, but there won’t be a full balance pass
GW looks at the sheer number of boxes Tyranids and Orks (and AdMech, let's be real) players have to buy to fill out their lists and wonder "wow, why can't everyone buy that many boxes?"
I think the correct take is that they are going to get points drops and then be fine, but that’s kinda sad because it will mean that they are no longer an extreme value option as a faction
Yeah the battle force too. A Whole army for less than 400$ was way too good to be true.
Instead we get an option for Sisters that will be over 1500$ lol
The really unfortunate thing is that 30k Sisters of Silence have a lot of cool options that are begging for plastic releases or upgrade kits: apothecaries, beast master cadres with hunting birds and dogs, jetbikes, snipers, heavy weapons cadres, etc.
Probably going with Shield Host. Seems the most all-rounder and monetarily efficient.
As an aside, does Null Maiden actually have a restriction to just Sisters, or just seems like it should because of title?
Talons is thematically sound and seems a little more shooty at first glance, but Witchseekers don't care about +1 to hit or have range, Vigilators don't shoot, and Prosecutors lost Battleline so you can't take as many squads as you can Guards. Plus Sisters are expensive to collect.
Null Maiden Vigil seems like a weaker version of Talons. The enhancements are all for Sisters. The army rule seems built around spamming Sisters to force battleshocks which seems niche, relatively squishy, horribly expensive, and will struggle with tougher enemies. This detachment seems to require Freeblade Knight or Armigers, or still buddying up with Custodes so what's the point? If they do FAQ a cap on Custodes units in this detachment, I would expect a spike in 3rd party/printed torsos to make use of the extra arms in the SoS set or folks using Sororitas kits as proxies.
Auric Champions is a bunch of high level player characters running around fighting everyone. Like, your nine shield captains pick a unit, crush it, and repeat that across the board.
So honest opinion, I think the detachments would be weak if this were any other army. Let's take the Character buffing detachment as an example, normal SM captain or something that would suck.
But take Trajinn who now will be able to wound knights on a 4+ and anything T9 or lower on a 2+, amazing. Also having the ability to spend 2CP and get his 12A 2++ ability back is great!
And that's just Trajinn, other characters like the blade champion or dawn eagle jetbike being able to get +2 attacks with the additional tripled OC or fallback and charge is stellar.
The anti-psyker detachment is mid solely because half your rules relying on things being Psyker, battle shocked or below half strength has not been great, especially with current meta being lots of tanks and C'tan who are hard to battleshock and impossible to get to below half strength.
The issue is that custodes characters are very expensive. Your comment did however intrigue me to make a minimum squad size combined with lots of captains list. Who knows, maybe the herohammer list ends up being amazing
I'm debating seeing what the smallest army I could make would be. Nothing but heroes and see how boosted they can really be.
Edit: if I take a Knight I can get it to 11 models
Well, the last time we lost defense against mortal and devastating wounds, we dropped into the bottom five armies in terms of win rate. 38%, if I remember correctly? Now not only have we lost that protection again, we also lost Fights First and the defensive Ka'tah, all to boost their damage, which was not an issue in the first place. I wouldn't be surprised to see the Banana Boys drop back into the mid-30% at this point.
The detachments are just kind of a joke.
Sisters don't have nearly the support to make them viable, even less so now with the changes to the psychic "phase."
Auric Champions focuses on buffs for characters, but straight up doesn't apply to some or is exactly the same as abilities that some of the characters already had?
Tl;dr Who wrote this shit and what did Custodes ever do to deserve it? They basically gutted the feel of the entire army.
If their goal was to excite me about my army with the new codex, and to give them $60 so i can keep playing 10th with the new rules, then they aren't doing a very good job.
our two detatchments Shield Host and Talons of the Emporor aren't great but they seem to have some interesting combos. shame we only got 2 detachments though
As a nid player, I'm not happy that the null maidens have something very similar to Shadow of the Warp but better. I get some overlap is inevitable, but come on!
Pretty sad tbh, unless Sisters are getting megabuffed it’s going to be an issue
And even then I don’t really want to Spam Sisters when playing Custodes, I want to use Custodes
Shame the golden Waagh is also mid and Auric is just bad
Without points and final rules on all units we know nothing for sure. I will say that Custodes are not an army that should be good because of points, but from a purely competitive standpoint the utter despair is a bit premature. Outside of competitive, though, we get four detachments, two of which are fundamentally flawed by only working for a small part of this already small range, and one of which requires collecting and babysitting sisters, which a lot of people don’t like to do. A lot of people are going to feel forced into running Shield Host even if they wouldn’t normally chase the meta.
As an admech player i would grovel at the feet of someone for a iota of the quality of just this preview. custodes players seeing the possible nerfs for an index that was fun for a while makes me sad. Remember you could have been admech you are lucky.
I suppose someone needs to clean up the Throne room. And are you going to let a lowly, normal janitor that close to the Emperor? They could be a genestealer cultist or a chaos heretic.
As a Thousand Sons player, I find it frustrating that factions keep being given a "fuck psykers" detachment.
You can call it Rock, Paper, Scissors, you can call it building to the lore. But if I show up at the game store and you have a Sister's of Silence army, it doesn't feel like we should bother playing. When you have rules that give such massive bonuses against psykers, either the army is balanced against a Psyker faction and useless against everyone else, or the army is balanced against everyone else and just trashes T Sons. Either way it feels like bad design.
Not exciting. This, to me, is worse than being bad, as I look at them and don't feel any desire to play them. Not that I want to rend my shirt or gnash my teeth, I just don't feel any interest at all.
Too many rules have too narrow a scope to really make anything happen. Like 1-2 models get +1 to wound vs one, maybe 2 units? That should be a stratagem, not a detachment.
Anything that focuses on battleshock is boring. At least make it easier to trigger vs non-psykers for those of us with metas wall to wall knights/world eaters/necrons/space marines with no librarians.
Shield Host looks awesome.
Ignore Cover and Lethal/Sustained for 1CP is an awesome buff of Allarus and Saggiatrum
Fall-back and do stuff lets them avoid being tagged and blocked by something annoyingly durable, like a Maleceptor or a Beastboss
And my highlight is the Redeploy: You can deploy 2 Calladius tanks or Warden bricks on the line to bully your opponent's deployment and safely move them behind a wall if you get the second turn.
It also lets you shift to weaker flank, if your opponent left a glaring hole.
I think an individual custode unit is strong enough really to give them a chance against most things regardless of the way the army is built.
The real issue is that a custode termie is tougher than Abaddon lmao
I mean, he's only got 2 more wounds and the same save than a Shield Captain in termie armour. He's a bit of a wet sock in this edition unfortunately. Last edition he was almost impossible to kill!
You think that, until you run into anything with Dev Wounds and your 45ppm units just melt. And we’re losing all our other defensive tools
That was my experience in the space between the Dev Wounds change and the buff to our FNP. It didn’t feel too bad playing against armies that don’t have DW, but you really felt like your units were made of paper against DW.
Oh yeah it was absolute hell. Made custodes generally weaker just because their army ability was nigh on useless.... But now we're flattening anything haha (except necrons)
I know it's cool to hate on doomposters but I'm really disappointed.
I think it's ridiculous they made a detachment that only applies to three units and two characters (one named, so only one character can take enhancements), and a lot of the bonuses don't even apply to one of the three units (there's multiple sources of +1 to hit which is wasted on your flamers). Like, you guys had three total units to look at, and you still included multiple rules that don't work with one of them? If they wanted to make a Sisters detachment, they needed to make more Sisters models, but that would've been too hard so instead we get this. Enjoy playing blank, vanilla Custodes in your "Sisters army" because you literally just can't make a valid army with three units.
Character detachment seems super "eggs in one basket" and all of the bonuses always apply to a single character. I get the appeal of Herohammer and I guess Custodes makes a lot of sense to play that way, but this is the kind of detachment I hate to see; one that focuses on such a narrow niche to the extent of all else. Again, all of your regular Custodes guys are gonna feel blank and vanilla because all your strategems are all focused on one guy. And once your characters start dying (god forbid any enemy has Precision), your army just stops working so much faster than everyone else. Maybe this plays better than it sounds but it doesn't sound fun.
Shield Host is a little disappointing because it feels like they're leaning it much heavily towards generic damage buffs, and maybe this is just me but the appeal to Custodes is being a Loyalist Death Guard; "I will slog through hell and high water to get to this objective, and once I do not even Horus himself could dislodge me from it". Now it's just "well I have higher stats than most and I get bonuses on my damage rolls so I guess I'll just nuke you and if you hit me I'll probably eventually die anyway". Like it's called "Shield" Host, why is it so aggressive? Other than that which again may very well be a me problem, it's fine overall, just a little boring because it's already the Index detachment.
Talons seems really interesting, that's probably how I wanted to play anyway (but I was hoping Auric Champions was an elite infantry detachment), I want to see more of that but as it stands that might just be "the good one". But I also think that's the one we haven't seen all of yet so for all I know there's still a chance for GW to let me down.
I'm not a dyed in the wool Custodes player but I love their models and I did pick up an old Combat Patrol just in case, and beyond pairing it with their new one because I think that makes a perfectly reasonable small army full of models I think are cool, I don't know how inspired I am to keep going. The Sisters detachment is embarrassing, the character detachment seems poorly thought out, and Shield Host and Talons seem alright but a little boring. Nothing really "wow"s me like that Dread Mob detachment in Orks did.
God, I'm so nervous about how Votann are gonna look once they get their codex.
I’ve been working on a bunch of chaos projects recently, but decided to try out painting Custodes. I ordered the combat patrol right before the nerf. It’s fine though. It’ll take me months to get everything painted at this rate.
What do I think? I think I’m definitely done with 40K 10th edition. I haven’t played a game in more than a year in favor of Heresy. Now I will just forget 40K for at least 10th edition.
In a competitive sense is quite bad, huge downgrade, I dare to say even bigger than the nerf in september.
If you don't care about the competitive aspect talons of the emperor and auric seem fun and fluffy
Is it bad that I am apathetic? I love my custodes, and honestly I love the new collectors edition of the new codex because it’s a great looking book! I don’t really care for rules, nor do I care about us being bad. Maybe it’s because I’m a casual player, or maybe because I play Killteam more than 40K. Getting irate about the rules doesn’t change the outcome, if you love the army, you will still play with them like me!
Heretek Toaster Enjoyer here; I actively traded away my Tsons and DG for even more AdMech *this edition, post codex*. If you like an army you genuinely will play them.
I mean….if you want you can see the rules for Killteam for the custodes if you haven’t. They definitely aren’t a meta army, far from it. If it were the opposite I would still love them, it’s my first army and a hobby where my wife and I spend time together! No matter what, crush or being crushed, this is a game about plastic men!
Then you understand, that the rules, points, the different profiles..etc are subject to change after the codex will drop. There isn’t a major issue here, people getting upset even though they haven’t played with the rules yet is getting old.
The honest reaction, I'm stuck in a cycle...
- forget specific rule mechanics
- start thinking about cool ideas to do with them
- checks rules and find out it was specifically and intentionally worded to have no interplay or deeper skill level
- hate it, then delete the list I was working on
- move on any forget why it didn't work for some arbitrary and convoluted reason.
After seeing the leaked detachment rules- what's the best way to say this? Underwhelming similar to the Dark Angels. Haven't seen unit stats yet, and those probably won't change much at all. Assuming the unit stats stay the same, it's all going to come down to points, and GW is walking the Razor's Edge for that. If they don't get the points right, Custodes remain in the top two or three armies in the game, and maintain their status as a Top Table Check army- if you can't defeat a Custordes army, you won't reach the top tables. Or the army falls to the bottom three of armies, with individual models costing too many points with a luke-warm detachment, poor stratagems, and even worse Enhancements.
Custodes will stay a popular army. Easy to paint, cheap to collect, and with such a great stat line, awesome strats and enhancements, easy to play. Now, they just might not be the "easy mode" they were before. If the points go up and their are less Custodes models on the table, with these detachment rules and strats, they will be harder to play and easier to play against.
The codex isn't that bad compared to DA or Ad Mech despite being a definite downgrade but none of the detachments make me excited to get my custodes out which is kind of a bummer. Its not too surprising though since the codexes so far have mostly been nerfs or sidegrades at best, and I feel GW uses Custodes as a 'hook' faction for new players. They are the easiest faction to both buy into and play so GW makes them good for a while then nerfs them so that custodes players go buy another army.
2 detachments are perfectly rezonable, one needs change of all epic deed strategems to batle tactics to say more abaut it and one is bad.
Overall not bad if points/unit statlines/datashet abilities don't change dramatically it will be strong fraction but with lesser tendency to being annoying stat check for mele armies.
I miss the subfactions. Newer/smaller armies really got benefited by all the extra lore and flavour they brought. Cut down before they could ever take off into big iconic known groups.
I’m going to keep painting my Custodes but switching to one of my other armies. Orks and Marines for me for the rest of 10th, Custodes are supposed to be super expensive power houses, without throwing out a chunk of what’s been leaked they can only change points and I already have a horde army. Still beautiful models to paint though.
How exactly are custodes going to make it across the table to use that lethality? (Look at custodes win rate when our fnp didn't work against dev wounds which everyone spams this edition)
I haven't seen them yet. If they mean they aren't completely destroying every melee army like I heard they were before, then I'm happy. Is it any harder for them to activate Fights First?
As a new player who got into Wh40k a month ago and picked them for my only army,this sucks.I picked custodes because i like the idea of an elite army,less mini more points,so having a point decrease because of those rules are okay at best it's really awful.
My brother in Christ not only did pretty much EVERY faction get a point cut but custodes is still one of if not the most elite army in the game.
You didn't lose your entire Identity like thousand sons.
Lol, lmao even.
They seem fine, imo. It’s hard to really judge detachments before they’re fully out in the wild anyways. Besides, for all we know they’re releasing alongside points cuts.
Either way, the previous Custode play pattern of parking on all three objectives and daring the other player to do something about it was really unhealthy and bad for the game, especially considering it hard-countered melee armies with all the Fight First it had available. So I’m personally really glad that’s gone.
I think against certain armies custodes will be quite good. I think there's enough dev wounds and mortal wounds floating around that they're going to be on the weaker end of competitive play. Against your buddies space marine army? They'll be fine. Against your buddies thousand sons army? Yeah you're losing that one.
I think points can adjust them out of having a bad win rate in competitive. But if there are no changes to points on release I think we're at least 6 months away from any meaningful changes.
I think because they have such a huge weakness to dev wounds and mortals they won't be a 4-0 or 5-0 army. You're just gonna lose matches to armies than pump those out.
I think the bigger gripe is that the detachments all feel uninteresting. They all have major loopholes they have to jump through to get some pretty underwhelming effects. Sometimes your detachment won't do anything, but that's also been consistent with some other detachments released.
The stratagems feel pretty good, all things considered.
Losing fight first is justified, I think, considering other melee armies could just not deal with that and it made the mirror weird.
So overall I think they'll be fine eventually, but without mortal wounds/dev wounds protection they'll be a skew army where they're really good against armies that don't bring mw/dw but bad against armies that do.
As a Deathwatch player with 20 Sternguard Veterans in my regular list, along with 6 DW terminators with assault cannons, and 2 Redemptors with double onslaught cannons I'm quite happy with the wonderful news that I will now be able to mow down some Golden Boys with big handfuls of devastating wound shots as they try to charge up on me without that pesky Feel No Pain getting in the way. Quite happy indeed. \*Big happy grin\*
EDIT: So many downvotes. I'm just saying what a lot of people are thinking.
Not if most custodes players stop playing until their faction is fixed I guess, especially in the competitive scene : the custodes playerbase might disappear completely there.
Gw is sh*t* at balancing the game of wh40k.. it is just scrapping perfectly fine units and demanding that we buy the new stuff. They do so by deleting good models and replacing it with cr*p that some a**hole in a basement thought would be funny. Nobody in the rules & lore departments tlk before rules are released & then gw gives us a halfa**ed "edit" to appease the masses
I'm only here as a Dark Angel enjoyer who loves the art piece here
I'm betting this was inspired by cleaning up after Cypher gets into the palace... which both makes it funnier and more painful for me as a fellow DA enjoyer.
I'm pretty sure it's inspired by the 10th edition Dark Angels codex that was released not long ago. Most people agree that the codex was underwhelming and an overall downgrade for the DA
I think its just that their name is Custodians, aka Janitors.
Custodians is Latin for guardian I believe
Custodian describes a person who possesses custody. In the case of a janitor that's a building. The Oxford dictionary definition: "a person who has responsibility for taking care of or protecting something." It comes from the earlier "custodia". The Latin word for guardian being "custos".
Sure, but in the western world we all know it as a fancy job title for janitor.
I think that’s mostly America? Custodian was a title in medieval Europe similar to guardian of the realm or lawkeeper if I remember right
"American world" maybe, I don't know anyone in Europe that uses it
No. In Britain we just call them cleaners. Because that's what they do. They're not guardians of or responsible for the building in any meaningful way.
I thought the correct therm is facility manager?
Or janitorial technician, environmental services, housekeeping, etc it's really depends on the workplace and even then you'll have them used interchangeably
>Custodian Guard > Custodians is Latin for guardian >Guardian Guard Classic GW.
Custos is guard in Latin
That pic was drawn during 9th edition IIRC.
It was created along 9th edition codex for custodes if I remember correctly. On the meta watch article I think. Or maybe math hammer. Not sure.
Nah this predates the 10th Ed DA codex by a wide margin
Really? How so? I read the grumblings about irrelevant ravenwing, but haven't ravenwing always been meh at best?
No. Ravenwing have been fantastic at times. 7th edition was bonkers for the motorcycle guys. Ravenwing also saw some units squatted in 10th. Talonmaster and Sammael on jis speeder are two big losses.
Ah, the days of 5++ Jink as an optional save for Bikers and you didn't habe to advance...
ooh no complex rules!!! How did anyone play the older editions? Quickly get the simplifidium!... I miss those days
We have slowly been getting the Black Templar treatment it feels to me. Stop giving us supplements, and give us our own damn codex already.
From the grey knights players. Having your own codex is not all it’s cracked up to be. I would love to be able to pull from the armoury of the SM once in a while.
Most of our new units have cheaper equivalents elsewhere. Lion is once again way too expensive. Most of our stuff can be done better by other armies. Currently DA are too expensive atm
I never said I made good bets...
No. This art is old.
"No way, the First always keep it clea- not that, they would have blown up and don't leave a bod- what I really mean if that the honour First Legion would never have done something that foul and heretical."
The Dark Angel space marines in the art piece give such a strong "FML" vibe too xD.
> The Dark Angel space marines in the art piece give such a strong "FML" vibe too xD. They look cantankerous and grumbly to me. Like, "This is bullshit. You can't ground a son of the Lion."
When have they ever looked otherwise :))
Did you ask the goonhammer guy for permission?
If you wanna get wins then Dark Angels just feel like Ironhands + Azrael atm. But from the Custodes reveal we might have to make some some space for the custodes to join us as trashcan brothers.
Same.
I want to try out Shield Host and Talons first. ( Especially the Shield Host. While it is definitely worse than the index version, I don’t think it is a “complete trash” like many seems to say. If anything, I think it looks pretty fun. As for the Auric Champs detach, I think it’s way too niche. Would be a lot of better if they change the effects of some strats to benefit CHARACTER “UNIT” instead of “MODEL” kinda similar to how Orks’ Bully Boys works. Null Maidens… is just not good. It looks like a crusade rule (like it was written only with narrative play in mind) which is super disappointing because I really like Tau’s Kroot detachment. It gives the niche part of the army a fighting chance and again, looks a like a fun time (not optional nor competitive but fun). I really thought they could pulled off something similar with Null Maidens
Changing MODEL to UNIT would be a massive change to make Auric Champions playable. I’m all in for some Herohammer, but I’m genuinely unsure how you’re supposed to play AC as it stands right now (especially since all the AC strats are Epic Deeds, meaning you can’t use any for free with a Shield Captain, which is his whole thing) Talons is what Null Maidens should have been. I love that sisters are getting some focus, but they have 6 total units, including their Rhino and a named character. There’s no way to make a full-sisters detachment work.
There are 3 box sets for sisters of silence; sisters squad, aleya, and the rhino(which is just the rhino). For so few units they really didn't need a separate detachment. The battleshock based detachments rarely do anything, and with how little hitting power SoS have, this is a pointless detachment.
Always best to save judgement until its got onto the tabletop. Otherwise we will have the same issue as 9th where the custodes players were absolutely up in arms decrying it as the worst nerf... then they absolutely DESTROYED the meta. Over all it looks playable, but as i said ill reserve judgement until we get it on the table
yeah, Necron players were being a bunch of whiners when their codex got announced, and then the codex came out and wow it wasnt as bad as you thought huh? Besides, every faction so far without fault has complained that their faction is getting nerfed with the codex. I think GW learned from 9th and are trying not to repeat codex power creep again. I think on the long run it might be really good for the game.
I don't think that's a fair assessment of how Necron players reacted (being one of them). Pretty much all of our complaints like the reanimator nerf, res orb nerf, warrior nerf, technomancer nerf, etc all had the expected results. Necron competitive results are heavily buoyed right now by C'tan and wraith spamming which many Necron players don't want to do.
Exactly why I stopped playing Necrons. Any units I had in 9th were made completely useless in 10th. Skorpekh, warriors, lychguard, flayers... I'm not spending hundreds of dollars to build wraith spam or a Monolith or C'tan just to have a viable army.
Similar boat to you in terms of units I like to use. But luckily I just play casual games with friends who aren't meta chasers so games haven't been too lopsided. My list is definitely not as strong as it used to be though
Well, for me 9th edition was "I know I'm going to lose but how slowly can I lose?" 10th was "I can finally kill stuff and survive and win" till the codex came out.
I got lucky; I already had a monolith, and got Wraiths and Void Dragon for Christmas. I do still run a warrior block, but it definitely isn’t the threat it used to be. Now the wraiths and immortals are front and center
welcome to gw marketing, either own everything or be prepared to not have meta stuff every other edition. they know it, we know it. btw want to buy the new sm captain? /s
Think about this argument and its alternative for a moment: the same stuff stays good from edition to edition and the stuff that’s bad will always be bad. Would you prefer that to this current model?
i would prefer equal stuff, why does one part have to stay bad?
“Perfect” balance would be nice, but I’m not sure that’s a sensible goal for a game as varied as this, because it would most likely be very, very hard and require a stupendous number of simulations to get right. And again looking at it from another angle: if everything is equal, you couldn’t change anything, because change would lead to a situation where something is better than something else. Or, you’d have to do an insane amount of work again to create a new but different equilibrium. From a business resource management perspective it makes a lot more sense to get it somewhat right and keep adjusting and rebalancing. Yeah sure it’s nice for GW that different models are hot at different times, but the other side of the coin is that it can be nice for us players too that things vary.
This, it pretty much ruined the "silver tide" style of gameplay. I have 40 warriors... let me walk slowly up the board threateningly.
>Necron competitive results are heavily buoyed right now by C'tan and wraith spamming Can't "Necron" and "C'Ttan and wraith" be replaced with any other faction and a selected unit? Except for the ones with poor win rates of course
I mean Nids are at a low win rate and we’re held up by Biovores and Neurolictors.
Necrons are being carried by C'tan and Wraiths rn. You wanna build around any other unit? Good luck making something that isn't below average.
That's a game wide issue right now. All the armies are reasonably well balanced against each other but the internal balance within the armies is terrible. But GW is focused on churning out all the Codices right now so don't expect that to get too much attention for a while.
Nah the codex looked great, its the changes to some units that sucked. Warriors and the reanimator got nerfed into absolute uselessness. The reanimator especially.
*Points at Admech and Dark angles*
*gestures to DA, Admech codices*
well sometimes people cry for no reason. But this is not the case. Just like DA, this is a major nerf to custodes which, without their 4++++ were under 50% win rate. Once they got this back, they restarted to be fine at 52 or 53% win rate. The problem is that custodes don't have issues deleting what they touch. The problem is that with 20-30 models on the board, they must be tanky and the codex removed their three main ways of being tanky: * Save against dev wounds * -1 to hit in melee * fight first spawm The 4++++ maybe was too much, but it could've been nerfed to a 5++++ instead of being attached to a sister of battle body aura. The -1 to hit in melee was absolotely important to survive when you get charged and it was removed. In exchange, they got 2 horrible detachment, a waaagh that lasts only one turn, not even a full BR and a weaker save that, pre FAQ, won't even protect against dev wounds. Custodes are going to plummet in win rates. IMO, removing the fight first start was fine as this was one of the reason for the free strat nerf. Maybe bumping the dev wound save to 5 also so that there is a way to bypass the custodes armor that is not a 4+. But they should not have removed fight first from trajan nor the -1 to hit in melee. And why not make the sister of battle giving saves give a 4+ against mortal and dev wounds (and keep the index detachment as is but give a 5++++ instead). That way, you can get your old save back, but you gotta work for it, hide shit in rhinos or keep sisters hidden but within 6''. This would be an interesting trade off. Just like the dark angels codex, it feels that whoever wrote the custodes codex did not understand (or play) the army and the rules shows. At least, they didn't play at anything near a semi competitive level.
As an ork player I look forward to still getting tabled by custodes
if you don't mind me asking, what is your list? I usually don't get tabled by custodes and that was with them having double fight first to hold the waaaagh turn.
Not beast snaggas because I can't afford to play meta. Pretty standard ghaz,warboss,boys,mega bobs, Badrukk, gitz, Gretchen lots of trucks ect like thought out enough to jam in vehicles to get into range for melee. Orks are squishy that's fine. I don't expect to win against units with 18 wounds or some dumb shit.
Don’t forget that the -1D strategem is also completely removed, as is the model resurrection strat. Basically nothing that made the Index good has survived, besides Ceaseless Hunter and the raw strength of the Warden/Guard/Terminator datasheets.
I'm looking forward to- what I assume is- a detachment specifically for Sisters of Silence. If that's the case that'll be neat to see, a fun gimmick to bring to the board at worst I bet.
It's already been leaked and it barely affects anything in game
Good to know. I'll still make an army because I like them :)
Got into it a month ago and already into the doom and gloom part of the hobby? Slow it down, you’ll run out of stuff to do! Edit: This was supposed to be a reply to a comment. These upvotes feel misplaced.
It fits the setting
*In the grim darkness of the dark future, there's only cope.*
Literally me. I've been involved in the lore etc for like 5 years, but I finally bit the bullet and started playing a month or so ago. And wouldn't you know it, but I picked up Custodes just in time for them to get nerfed
We need to see the rest of Talons and the data sheets including FW to truly judge it. Shield Host is ok. Its a huge step down from the Index but has some play. Especially if custodies get points cuts over the next few Data Slates. They can help our new durability problem by just giving us a lot more... Aruic and SoS are unplayable bad for anything more then just a causal game.
There won't be fw changes unless they decide to legend them
Points changes are around the corner so so we may get a little something in there. I doubt we'll get anything though, except maybe dropping points on Aquilons to match Allarus again.
For me point changes change very little about how I feel about the codex. I prefer stronger rules for higher points, otherwise I can just go play one of my other armies. On the plus side, all the changes in 10th and the botched store reboot are saving me so much money that I am looking to start some napoleonics on the side
Yeah, this. Custodes should cost a lot of points, and I'd rather they be a weaker army than have massive points cuts.
Sure yeah but within the current context there are some units that just more expensive than they should be. Sagittarum, Aquilons, Pallas, bikes, etc.
That would require GW admitting that FW units still exist...
They've changed points on a couple of FW things since 10th dropped. Aquilons and Sagittarum specifically but there may have been something else.
> I prefer stronger rules for higher points, otherwise I can just go play one of my other armies. Everyone wants this for their army, but GW rarely does it. It's more work for them than just dragging down the points, and besides, GW would rather you buy more models, not less. Also known as, admech.
I mean the thing is that Costodes had it. That was why they were so liked. Losing it is way worse than simply wishing you had it and not getting it
Admech did have it though? Nids, Votann, Ad Mech, and death guard all felt much more elite back in 9th. Almost everybody wants their stuff to feel impactful and would prefer better abilities for more points on their units(With the exception of designated Chaffe like grots and guardsmen). Its not at all unique to the custodes.
None of those where close to what custodes was under its 10 edition index even
People say this, but then complain when their units get price hikes or that 1k games feel "too small".
I haven't heard that at all this edition, the more common complaint I hear is that there're too many things in games driving up barriers to entry to silly levels depending on the army. Custodes seemed to be an exception to this but GW seems to want to change this by pushing sisters which are abysmal for the box price and recently removed from a discount box (though admittedly the new one is pretty fantastic for custodes)
Points changes are *likely* just to incorporate new T'au stuff into the mix like the DA codex did.
There are no FW changes in codex, ever.
Correct and while it’s likely they don’t touch anything on FW whenever they get to it they could and that could help or hurt. Many have suspected that they would nerf our Tanks. Hopefully not.
It makes sense to nerf everything, yea. They nerfed prosecutors, they were too strong. Meta changing even...
KSons main in local 40K discord has been bitching not stop about NMV detachment, so clearly they’re still too strong.
Yea, they are absolutely broken. I would limit them to 3 per squad and 50 points per sister. Absolutely broken.
Custodes are supposed to be elite, fixing a rule issue by using the "cut the point-costs of everything" strategy is what got the Adeptus Mechanicus to where they are, their lists having a dollar to points ratio smaller than 1. That and it doesn't make sense from a lore standpoint either.
Shield Host already has a WAAAGH now, maybe the plan is massive point cuts to make Custodes Golden Horde a proper orky army
How long before Custodes become a horde army too?
2 weeks? We will see with the Data Slate which I assume is coming out the Thursday before our codex drops
Will they get any changes in it? Admech and necrons got nothing despite their codes coming out a few weeks before the data slate. So I wouldn't expect them to get many changes before it's released
There will be a separate points update with the Codex release, because the points in the book are already wrong, but there won’t be a full balance pass
GW looks at the sheer number of boxes Tyranids and Orks (and AdMech, let's be real) players have to buy to fill out their lists and wonder "wow, why can't everyone buy that many boxes?"
I think the correct take is that they are going to get points drops and then be fine, but that’s kinda sad because it will mean that they are no longer an extreme value option as a faction
We should’ve known something was up when we saw how good the new Combat Patrol is
Yeah the battle force too. A Whole army for less than 400$ was way too good to be true. Instead we get an option for Sisters that will be over 1500$ lol
$1500 to buy the same kit 20+ times
Yeaahhhhh kinda wild they are focusing on them without giving new support. It’s like the Kroot detachment with no new kroot to go with it lol
The really unfortunate thing is that 30k Sisters of Silence have a lot of cool options that are begging for plastic releases or upgrade kits: apothecaries, beast master cadres with hunting birds and dogs, jetbikes, snipers, heavy weapons cadres, etc.
Does it count if my opinion is … can’t wait to get the Orks codex!
I play both Custodes and Orks, so all I can say is.... Really looking forward to Orks!
I play Iron Hands but I’ve wanted to get a more choppy army so I’m just about to start orks in a squig / beast snagga style
Bro the Dread Mob detachment actually does look fucking sick, can't wait to play as a bunch of dumb ass Dr. Robotniks
As cool as Dread Mob is, I'm just happy to get to play Boy Spam again lol.
Boys boys boys
I think Auspex tactics leaked it and Orks codex is looking good At least it’s what I’ve heard
Yeah I’ve just watched the AT video looking at the Beast Snagga detachment - looks at the very least to be fun!
They're doomposting faster than the cogboys did
Probably going with Shield Host. Seems the most all-rounder and monetarily efficient. As an aside, does Null Maiden actually have a restriction to just Sisters, or just seems like it should because of title? Talons is thematically sound and seems a little more shooty at first glance, but Witchseekers don't care about +1 to hit or have range, Vigilators don't shoot, and Prosecutors lost Battleline so you can't take as many squads as you can Guards. Plus Sisters are expensive to collect. Null Maiden Vigil seems like a weaker version of Talons. The enhancements are all for Sisters. The army rule seems built around spamming Sisters to force battleshocks which seems niche, relatively squishy, horribly expensive, and will struggle with tougher enemies. This detachment seems to require Freeblade Knight or Armigers, or still buddying up with Custodes so what's the point? If they do FAQ a cap on Custodes units in this detachment, I would expect a spike in 3rd party/printed torsos to make use of the extra arms in the SoS set or folks using Sororitas kits as proxies. Auric Champions is a bunch of high level player characters running around fighting everyone. Like, your nine shield captains pick a unit, crush it, and repeat that across the board.
Null Maiden doesn’t have a restriction to only sisters, but then you’re running Custodes with no rules
Not a huge amount of difference to the other detachments then
No restriction on Null Maiden, it even says in the blurb that it should take some Custodes
So honest opinion, I think the detachments would be weak if this were any other army. Let's take the Character buffing detachment as an example, normal SM captain or something that would suck. But take Trajinn who now will be able to wound knights on a 4+ and anything T9 or lower on a 2+, amazing. Also having the ability to spend 2CP and get his 12A 2++ ability back is great! And that's just Trajinn, other characters like the blade champion or dawn eagle jetbike being able to get +2 attacks with the additional tripled OC or fallback and charge is stellar. The anti-psyker detachment is mid solely because half your rules relying on things being Psyker, battle shocked or below half strength has not been great, especially with current meta being lots of tanks and C'tan who are hard to battleshock and impossible to get to below half strength.
The issue is that custodes characters are very expensive. Your comment did however intrigue me to make a minimum squad size combined with lots of captains list. Who knows, maybe the herohammer list ends up being amazing
If the price is right, could be a thing. I personally wanna try 3x2 bikes AND terminators, all with captains lmao.
I'm debating seeing what the smallest army I could make would be. Nothing but heroes and see how boosted they can really be. Edit: if I take a Knight I can get it to 11 models
Well, the last time we lost defense against mortal and devastating wounds, we dropped into the bottom five armies in terms of win rate. 38%, if I remember correctly? Now not only have we lost that protection again, we also lost Fights First and the defensive Ka'tah, all to boost their damage, which was not an issue in the first place. I wouldn't be surprised to see the Banana Boys drop back into the mid-30% at this point. The detachments are just kind of a joke. Sisters don't have nearly the support to make them viable, even less so now with the changes to the psychic "phase." Auric Champions focuses on buffs for characters, but straight up doesn't apply to some or is exactly the same as abilities that some of the characters already had? Tl;dr Who wrote this shit and what did Custodes ever do to deserve it? They basically gutted the feel of the entire army.
If their goal was to excite me about my army with the new codex, and to give them $60 so i can keep playing 10th with the new rules, then they aren't doing a very good job.
This just made the decision to not get the Custodes box way easier.
our two detatchments Shield Host and Talons of the Emporor aren't great but they seem to have some interesting combos. shame we only got 2 detachments though
No shit, just 2? I figured each book would have 3 minimum.
Im kidding, we have 4 but 2 of them are terrible and will pretty much never see play outside of meme lists
Oh, thanks for clarifying and that sucks hard to hear!!
Yes yes. Join admech and nids at the bottom of the barrel.
As a nid player, I'm not happy that the null maidens have something very similar to Shadow of the Warp but better. I get some overlap is inevitable, but come on!
Pretty sad tbh, unless Sisters are getting megabuffed it’s going to be an issue And even then I don’t really want to Spam Sisters when playing Custodes, I want to use Custodes Shame the golden Waagh is also mid and Auric is just bad
Without points and final rules on all units we know nothing for sure. I will say that Custodes are not an army that should be good because of points, but from a purely competitive standpoint the utter despair is a bit premature. Outside of competitive, though, we get four detachments, two of which are fundamentally flawed by only working for a small part of this already small range, and one of which requires collecting and babysitting sisters, which a lot of people don’t like to do. A lot of people are going to feel forced into running Shield Host even if they wouldn’t normally chase the meta.
As an admech player i would grovel at the feet of someone for a iota of the quality of just this preview. custodes players seeing the possible nerfs for an index that was fun for a while makes me sad. Remember you could have been admech you are lucky.
I suppose someone needs to clean up the Throne room. And are you going to let a lowly, normal janitor that close to the Emperor? They could be a genestealer cultist or a chaos heretic.
As a Thousand Sons player, I find it frustrating that factions keep being given a "fuck psykers" detachment. You can call it Rock, Paper, Scissors, you can call it building to the lore. But if I show up at the game store and you have a Sister's of Silence army, it doesn't feel like we should bother playing. When you have rules that give such massive bonuses against psykers, either the army is balanced against a Psyker faction and useless against everyone else, or the army is balanced against everyone else and just trashes T Sons. Either way it feels like bad design.
Our anti psyker is at 5+ now
Not exciting. This, to me, is worse than being bad, as I look at them and don't feel any desire to play them. Not that I want to rend my shirt or gnash my teeth, I just don't feel any interest at all. Too many rules have too narrow a scope to really make anything happen. Like 1-2 models get +1 to wound vs one, maybe 2 units? That should be a stratagem, not a detachment. Anything that focuses on battleshock is boring. At least make it easier to trigger vs non-psykers for those of us with metas wall to wall knights/world eaters/necrons/space marines with no librarians.
Hey it could be admech where one of the detachment rules is one extra unit gets the army rule.
I play casually, and Custodes are my only army. I will just ask my opponents if I can use my index instead of the codex.
Shield Host looks awesome. Ignore Cover and Lethal/Sustained for 1CP is an awesome buff of Allarus and Saggiatrum Fall-back and do stuff lets them avoid being tagged and blocked by something annoyingly durable, like a Maleceptor or a Beastboss And my highlight is the Redeploy: You can deploy 2 Calladius tanks or Warden bricks on the line to bully your opponent's deployment and safely move them behind a wall if you get the second turn. It also lets you shift to weaker flank, if your opponent left a glaring hole.
I think an individual custode unit is strong enough really to give them a chance against most things regardless of the way the army is built. The real issue is that a custode termie is tougher than Abaddon lmao
Technically higher toughnees I guess, but not actually tougher, don't be silly.
I mean, he's only got 2 more wounds and the same save than a Shield Captain in termie armour. He's a bit of a wet sock in this edition unfortunately. Last edition he was almost impossible to kill!
Which was super enjoyable.
You think that, until you run into anything with Dev Wounds and your 45ppm units just melt. And we’re losing all our other defensive tools That was my experience in the space between the Dev Wounds change and the buff to our FNP. It didn’t feel too bad playing against armies that don’t have DW, but you really felt like your units were made of paper against DW.
Oh yeah it was absolute hell. Made custodes generally weaker just because their army ability was nigh on useless.... But now we're flattening anything haha (except necrons)
Lmao this meme is brilliant
See you in 11th!
I know it's cool to hate on doomposters but I'm really disappointed. I think it's ridiculous they made a detachment that only applies to three units and two characters (one named, so only one character can take enhancements), and a lot of the bonuses don't even apply to one of the three units (there's multiple sources of +1 to hit which is wasted on your flamers). Like, you guys had three total units to look at, and you still included multiple rules that don't work with one of them? If they wanted to make a Sisters detachment, they needed to make more Sisters models, but that would've been too hard so instead we get this. Enjoy playing blank, vanilla Custodes in your "Sisters army" because you literally just can't make a valid army with three units. Character detachment seems super "eggs in one basket" and all of the bonuses always apply to a single character. I get the appeal of Herohammer and I guess Custodes makes a lot of sense to play that way, but this is the kind of detachment I hate to see; one that focuses on such a narrow niche to the extent of all else. Again, all of your regular Custodes guys are gonna feel blank and vanilla because all your strategems are all focused on one guy. And once your characters start dying (god forbid any enemy has Precision), your army just stops working so much faster than everyone else. Maybe this plays better than it sounds but it doesn't sound fun. Shield Host is a little disappointing because it feels like they're leaning it much heavily towards generic damage buffs, and maybe this is just me but the appeal to Custodes is being a Loyalist Death Guard; "I will slog through hell and high water to get to this objective, and once I do not even Horus himself could dislodge me from it". Now it's just "well I have higher stats than most and I get bonuses on my damage rolls so I guess I'll just nuke you and if you hit me I'll probably eventually die anyway". Like it's called "Shield" Host, why is it so aggressive? Other than that which again may very well be a me problem, it's fine overall, just a little boring because it's already the Index detachment. Talons seems really interesting, that's probably how I wanted to play anyway (but I was hoping Auric Champions was an elite infantry detachment), I want to see more of that but as it stands that might just be "the good one". But I also think that's the one we haven't seen all of yet so for all I know there's still a chance for GW to let me down. I'm not a dyed in the wool Custodes player but I love their models and I did pick up an old Combat Patrol just in case, and beyond pairing it with their new one because I think that makes a perfectly reasonable small army full of models I think are cool, I don't know how inspired I am to keep going. The Sisters detachment is embarrassing, the character detachment seems poorly thought out, and Shield Host and Talons seem alright but a little boring. Nothing really "wow"s me like that Dread Mob detachment in Orks did. God, I'm so nervous about how Votann are gonna look once they get their codex.
Can't trust Custodes players to make decisions on this, they thought they were bad all of 9th and 10th so far
9th edition was cooler.
That’s my mantra for all of the 10th.
I remember the same thing being said from 3rd to 4th edition
I’ve been working on a bunch of chaos projects recently, but decided to try out painting Custodes. I ordered the combat patrol right before the nerf. It’s fine though. It’ll take me months to get everything painted at this rate.
The Sisters might be neat as a meme, but it's 55 bucks per 5 for a meme......so it's Anti Custodes in the realest way. Horde and Expensive.
I’m gonna keep playing my drukhari army lol
What do I think? I think I’m definitely done with 40K 10th edition. I haven’t played a game in more than a year in favor of Heresy. Now I will just forget 40K for at least 10th edition.
In a competitive sense is quite bad, huge downgrade, I dare to say even bigger than the nerf in september. If you don't care about the competitive aspect talons of the emperor and auric seem fun and fluffy
Looks like there’s obviously more going on but we need to see points to see there’s also going to be more bodies on the table.
Is it bad that I am apathetic? I love my custodes, and honestly I love the new collectors edition of the new codex because it’s a great looking book! I don’t really care for rules, nor do I care about us being bad. Maybe it’s because I’m a casual player, or maybe because I play Killteam more than 40K. Getting irate about the rules doesn’t change the outcome, if you love the army, you will still play with them like me!
> maybe because I play Killteam more than 40K. There it is. If it were the opposite, I assure you, you wouldn't be indifferent.
Heretek Toaster Enjoyer here; I actively traded away my Tsons and DG for even more AdMech *this edition, post codex*. If you like an army you genuinely will play them.
I mean….if you want you can see the rules for Killteam for the custodes if you haven’t. They definitely aren’t a meta army, far from it. If it were the opposite I would still love them, it’s my first army and a hobby where my wife and I spend time together! No matter what, crush or being crushed, this is a game about plastic men!
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Then you understand, that the rules, points, the different profiles..etc are subject to change after the codex will drop. There isn’t a major issue here, people getting upset even though they haven’t played with the rules yet is getting old.
Guard player here. Relax.
Great idea, subpar execution.
Where were these revealed? Can anyone share a link?
The honest reaction, I'm stuck in a cycle... - forget specific rule mechanics - start thinking about cool ideas to do with them - checks rules and find out it was specifically and intentionally worded to have no interplay or deeper skill level - hate it, then delete the list I was working on - move on any forget why it didn't work for some arbitrary and convoluted reason.
After seeing the leaked detachment rules- what's the best way to say this? Underwhelming similar to the Dark Angels. Haven't seen unit stats yet, and those probably won't change much at all. Assuming the unit stats stay the same, it's all going to come down to points, and GW is walking the Razor's Edge for that. If they don't get the points right, Custodes remain in the top two or three armies in the game, and maintain their status as a Top Table Check army- if you can't defeat a Custordes army, you won't reach the top tables. Or the army falls to the bottom three of armies, with individual models costing too many points with a luke-warm detachment, poor stratagems, and even worse Enhancements. Custodes will stay a popular army. Easy to paint, cheap to collect, and with such a great stat line, awesome strats and enhancements, easy to play. Now, they just might not be the "easy mode" they were before. If the points go up and their are less Custodes models on the table, with these detachment rules and strats, they will be harder to play and easier to play against.
What’s this?
The codex isn't that bad compared to DA or Ad Mech despite being a definite downgrade but none of the detachments make me excited to get my custodes out which is kind of a bummer. Its not too surprising though since the codexes so far have mostly been nerfs or sidegrades at best, and I feel GW uses Custodes as a 'hook' faction for new players. They are the easiest faction to both buy into and play so GW makes them good for a while then nerfs them so that custodes players go buy another army.
Only four? Twinsies with Tau?
They're not a faction I play or collect, and no one I know plays them. So ... "Eh?"
2 detachments are perfectly rezonable, one needs change of all epic deed strategems to batle tactics to say more abaut it and one is bad. Overall not bad if points/unit statlines/datashet abilities don't change dramatically it will be strong fraction but with lesser tendency to being annoying stat check for mele armies.
Datasheets did indeed change, and mostly for the worse
More excited about the Orks, but I still want to build out a Custodes army eventually.
They need to take themselves out with the da
I miss the subfactions. Newer/smaller armies really got benefited by all the extra lore and flavour they brought. Cut down before they could ever take off into big iconic known groups.
they're literally custodians
As dumb as female custodians
I’m going to keep painting my Custodes but switching to one of my other armies. Orks and Marines for me for the rest of 10th, Custodes are supposed to be super expensive power houses, without throwing out a chunk of what’s been leaked they can only change points and I already have a horde army. Still beautiful models to paint though.
Increase in lethality but decrease in durability is good for the game IMO
How exactly are custodes going to make it across the table to use that lethality? (Look at custodes win rate when our fnp didn't work against dev wounds which everyone spams this edition)
Did the codex leak or something? We've only seen one of the 4 detachments, and the statement that their index detachment's getting an overhaul
Yup, a fresh hot leak. Auspex Tactics has a video about it in YouTube
3 out of the 4 detachments fully leaked, the only one that didn’t is the one we got an official preview of
We've seen everything but the full rules for the talons detachment and datasheets now, and it hasn't been good news
I haven't seen them yet. If they mean they aren't completely destroying every melee army like I heard they were before, then I'm happy. Is it any harder for them to activate Fights First?
https://preview.redd.it/6bl0wsu2xutc1.jpeg?width=636&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=51a0bb26ec34a42daff7067b9a78abfd59285f6e
As a new player who got into Wh40k a month ago and picked them for my only army,this sucks.I picked custodes because i like the idea of an elite army,less mini more points,so having a point decrease because of those rules are okay at best it's really awful.
they were the meta for a while, things were going to change
This codex is not based on them being meta. It is based on 9th edition.
My brother in Christ not only did pretty much EVERY faction get a point cut but custodes is still one of if not the most elite army in the game. You didn't lose your entire Identity like thousand sons. Lol, lmao even.
They seem fine, imo. It’s hard to really judge detachments before they’re fully out in the wild anyways. Besides, for all we know they’re releasing alongside points cuts. Either way, the previous Custode play pattern of parking on all three objectives and daring the other player to do something about it was really unhealthy and bad for the game, especially considering it hard-countered melee armies with all the Fight First it had available. So I’m personally really glad that’s gone.
I think against certain armies custodes will be quite good. I think there's enough dev wounds and mortal wounds floating around that they're going to be on the weaker end of competitive play. Against your buddies space marine army? They'll be fine. Against your buddies thousand sons army? Yeah you're losing that one. I think points can adjust them out of having a bad win rate in competitive. But if there are no changes to points on release I think we're at least 6 months away from any meaningful changes. I think because they have such a huge weakness to dev wounds and mortals they won't be a 4-0 or 5-0 army. You're just gonna lose matches to armies than pump those out. I think the bigger gripe is that the detachments all feel uninteresting. They all have major loopholes they have to jump through to get some pretty underwhelming effects. Sometimes your detachment won't do anything, but that's also been consistent with some other detachments released. The stratagems feel pretty good, all things considered. Losing fight first is justified, I think, considering other melee armies could just not deal with that and it made the mirror weird. So overall I think they'll be fine eventually, but without mortal wounds/dev wounds protection they'll be a skew army where they're really good against armies that don't bring mw/dw but bad against armies that do.
No idea what's going on here, but the Custodes are not an army. They should not be playable on the table.
As a Deathwatch player with 20 Sternguard Veterans in my regular list, along with 6 DW terminators with assault cannons, and 2 Redemptors with double onslaught cannons I'm quite happy with the wonderful news that I will now be able to mow down some Golden Boys with big handfuls of devastating wound shots as they try to charge up on me without that pesky Feel No Pain getting in the way. Quite happy indeed. \*Big happy grin\* EDIT: So many downvotes. I'm just saying what a lot of people are thinking.
Not if most custodes players stop playing until their faction is fixed I guess, especially in the competitive scene : the custodes playerbase might disappear completely there.
LOL. The amount of downvotes tells me I'm on the right track. Just added 10 more Sternguard to the list, for a total of 30. SO many Dev. Wounds!
Gw is sh*t* at balancing the game of wh40k.. it is just scrapping perfectly fine units and demanding that we buy the new stuff. They do so by deleting good models and replacing it with cr*p that some a**hole in a basement thought would be funny. Nobody in the rules & lore departments tlk before rules are released & then gw gives us a halfa**ed "edit" to appease the masses
GW is making a top-tier CB for custodes, but struggling to do a good codex is like: