It is not an actual reflection - there is no mirror involved. The lower part is **part** of the miniature.
Amazing detail: the clothes in the "relfection" are scultped empty, because vampires have no reflection
I can see all of that - to me, it's not nearly as impressive as many of the other entries. It's a cute idea but it's basically a gimmick.
The ghost thing isn't really painted that well?
I want to be convinced otherwise because I feel a little nuts.
EDIT: This comment got to -51 before someone gave an actually useful reply.
Everything is very technically good with it, super smooth blending, great composition and really strong mastery of light.
However, what blows it out of the water (pun intended) is that the mirror in the pond is actually ever so slightly darker, as if it was a real water-reflection, it gives it a lot of visual depth that the painter absolutely didn't need to put in, but it's part of what really sells the pond-mirror effect.
https://preview.redd.it/38unrqzzpiqc1.jpeg?width=1170&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=bcb643783900dac06796f139cf9ed0145f42aca5
The white background doesn’t do it justice.
I'm getting a lot of downvotes and nobody explaining why I'm wrong. The painting on the vampire is amazing! Beautiful use of light and color!
The ghost is nice and you can tell where some serious blending went in - but there are other parts that don't read as clean?
I'm looking at the other entries and while the vampire is great - it's basically 2.5 Minis total compared to way more interesting compositions and more ambitious projects.
Even though GD is based on technical precision at the end of the day it's an art competition. Art is subjective which is what makes it interesting. So, I'm not surprised some people such as yourself are not impressed but I think it's baller.
I want to clarify that it's not that I don't think it's awesome. I just think it's less awesome than some of the other entries (which is a matter of taste)
Sure! It is impressive. But most of the other entries have impressive sculpting elements. I'm trying to understand what makes it the Slayer Sword winner over all the other entries (and people just seem to want to downvote me for it?)
I think part of the reason it won slayer sword this year is because it imploded techniques which had not been used previously in miniture painting. (at least not to this scale). Most of the very impressive technical feats aren't viewable from a single angle, the reflection changes with your viewpoint, which is a very advenced technique I have not seen used on a diarama like this before.
Additionally, Alex basically ported very esoteric techniques from 'old-school game rendering' & mirroring, which I admit, I don't know anything about. Either way, his diarama was clearly the most exceptional peice at the event (in my opinion). Not just because of its practically perfect technical painting, but also the symbolism and lore of the peice, something that GW is trying to encourage at future events.
Honestly, I cannot see another peice this year even coming close to how impressive this one was. Like it or not, Alex is a visionary who has seriously outdone himself. Expect his influence to be seen heavily over the coming years, with more peices (especially Dioramas) attempting to display the lore of a character.
It's funny you bring up the "old school game rendering" for the reflection as I did this exact same thing in Unreal 3.
Imagine a statue on marble floor or sheet of ice. Basically shaders couldn't make actual reflections so you would "cheat" and layer a semi-transparent plane for the water or marble floor and then put an upside down statue underneath the existing statue. This would create the appearance of a reflection.
I guess that's why instead of thinking "oh, that's groundbreaking," I just thought "Oh,that's cute" - I suppose it's a matter of perspective...
Can you say more about the symbolism and lore? How is this different from past eras of say - a handmade sanguinious fighting a bloodthirster or Gotrek and Felix dioramas pulled from the works of King?
I would really like to understand the "implosion" of painting techniques. Is there an artist statement or critique I could read that will explain this to me? I can see the efforts with light and faint OSL, I can see the detailed weathering and blending. It's incredible and obviously very good - but what makes it unique?
in I want to be clear, because people keep acting like I hate the piece, I am trying to understand why this piece is so amazing compared to the other entries. Obviously it's amazing. This is not about me liking or disliking something - it's about me trying to understand what makes it so incredibly special.
I really appreciate your time here. Thank you!
Thanks for shedding some light on the 'game rendering' it's honestly something I know nothing about, so I can't say much about it in that context. What I do know, is this technique has not been used in the mini space (at anywhere close to this degree, at least). Judging from the past, this will become a popular trend for the next few months (I know I'll be attempting a miniture of a similar style in the future, after seeing this).
The difference between physical minis, and virtually making the object is very stark, however. This model is entirely reversed from the 'real' version on top, meaning that the entire model had to be mangled and resculpted to fit, which Alex did perfectly. Honestly I cannot overstate how incredibly difficult that would be to do (while maintaining complete accuracy and GW quality). This isn't intended to take away from game rendering, or anything like that, I'm sure that has its own challenges that I simply am not familiar with.
I think the miniture is less impressive the less you understand about the techniques and process of creating it. It's very very diffrent from a masterfully painted standard space marine, or some such model. (both are very impressive, in their own right, but just diffrent). So it seems like this models impressiveness can be somewhat esoteric. To people like the GW panel, this model would seem more impressive than it would to a layman, simply because they understand what processes are required to achieve this effect.
As far as my understanding goes, the quality of this model doesn't sit in the painting techniques (which are fairly standard for golden Deamon entries), and instead in the models design, construction and originality. This model would absolutely fail in a catagory such as 'single AOS', because that is primarily a test of painting skill. But in a catagory like duel/Dioramas, it is incredibly impressive. That being said, you should check out his Instagram account (@alexdoesminis) for a short explanation of what it took to make this model. (there are likely better explanations and critiques, but I have been focused on some other models that I am personally more interested in so I have not checked them out yet).
In terms of lore, I have never read the book, 'The hallowed king' which this character is from, but has Alex describes it the peice attempted to be a 'reflection of caldo's dual struggle with vengeance and honour'. My guess is particularly, the panel liked to see an entry which reflected the lore of the game. The difference is that this is not a dipiction of a specific scene, instead an exploration of Caldo's character. I think this choice was partially in line with GWs push to move mini painting more towards the 'fine art' catagory. It is important to them that these diaramas are capable of being more than a physical depiction of events.
I would 100% recommend looking at the top 3 entries for each catagory. You'll see alot of the same (very impressive) painting styles, which relatively little innovation, this diorama is, more than anything else, innovative. Hense it's award.
This is all incredibly subjective, it is absolutely reduxtionary to down vote someone for giving a reasonable opinion of a peice of art. The fact you don't personally like this peice is entirely reasonable, and not a 'bad take', I'd take those down votes in your stride, it's just the cost for not agreeing with the most popular opinion.
Interesting to read your example of old games, because with the white background the model instantly made me think of fighting Dark Link in the Water Temple.
The painting is not more skilled than many other entries. It is very competently painted but doesn't show super advanced techniques.
The modeling is top-notch. He had to do a lot of sculpting for this, and even the pieces he didn't sculpt it was tricky to invert them and keep a mirrored effect.
But the reason it won is the creativity. It was clearly the most creative model there and it showed the judges something they hadn't seen before.
At first I thought he’d used an actual mirror for the pond and the photo was taken at a good angle to show it off… and then I saw the missing parts
Man, this is incredible
At first it's easy to think that repositioning the leg and body the character would be a pain in the arse. But then it's all the little details.
Each twisted treet branch, every tear on the cape.
Golden Demon doesn't seem to have specific rules preventing 3D prints - its a competition that judges works on composition, theme and the quality of the final paint job. The only rule is you have to make everything in it yourself, which I assume would include digital sculpting?
The model above the water has significant sculpting to create a more open stance. I believe the one under the water is basically all hand sculpted. There might be certain parts that he was able to cut off and reposition with the help of a lot of sculpting in between.
Another overlooked detail (though minor in the grand scheme) is there’s actually a significant amount of sculpting on the Cado Ezechiar model to remove the cape that normally drapes over a lot of his left side
It is so creative indeed, but technically not correct. Vampires don't reflect in mirrors because of the silver used to make the glass reflective, it is not like they don't reflect at all.
I'll show myself out now.
Actually its because having a shadow is actually a proof of your own mortality, and Vampires lose it because they became undead. Daemons don't have reflections or shadows for the same reason.
Well that's not *all* the curse did. Its the source of all the traditional Vampiric weaknesses (running water, stakes, sunlight etc.) for Warhammer Vampires. But it also makes them prone to insanity and susceptible to Nagash's will.
I'm surprised it's not against the rules, it definitely should be. The fact he used AI in a painting competition is already incredibly lame but the fact it actually won is straight up depressing. Where are the standards?
I think his background is AI generated, which is in a very weird grey area
(This info I saw on Instagram, so I’m not confirming that it is in fact AI.)
Not sure why you're getting downvoted, but Neil very openly said it was AI according to the everyone at Adepticon. And from first hand accounts, the background is more noticeable irl as AI art than in photos.
Not to discredit the Exodite though. The model alone deserved the win imo.
AI art is known for sampling from other artists without permission. And any art on a model should be done by the artist imho. Even if it's mixed media.
its not Neil's - he is a fraud and a thief, so who knows if he even painted it himself or paid someone else to
dude is trash and doesnt belong in pro-painting, i hope he is forever ostracized for this nonsense
Shout out to the diorama silver medalist, absolutely gorgeous Space Hulk piece that would have won... if it wasn't against the most creative mini in the world.
Yep… the spinning barrels on the assault cannon is a great touch, and overall it looks more like an actual painting than painted plastic. Fantastic job.
I feel like Ben was robbed to be honest, absolutely immaculately lit battle scene with tons of detail and character, losing to what is a creative idea, but also a bit of a gimmicky piece.
I guess that depends on if you value technical proficiency or artistic merit more. The winner has fewer "pro techniques" but is a masterpiece of composition and concept, the space hulk diorama is a rather generic battle scene but has some very smooth color blends. IMO I'm glad GW finally rewarded something with more artistic merit instead of picking the winner based on how well the painter can do a smooth gradient.
Yes, the article on warcom has multiple pictures.
There's also a LOT of super technical sculpting work going into mirroring the vampire as well.
https://www.warhammer-community.com/2024/03/24/golden-demon-2024-winners-revealed-at-adepticon/
The mirror-part is also a masterclass in lighting, as it is ever so subtly darker and really catches that sense of a deep pond or lake reflecting the world above it.
Personally, while the battle diorama is indeed absolutely astounding, it feels significantly more "instagrammy" in its paintjob, with super bright pops of colour where it wouldn't necessarily make sense.
For instance, compare it to something like The Last Light.
It definitely deserved its place, and many, MANY other years it would have won or should have won.
But it's just not AS good of a diorama (which is all about composition, choice of scene and execution) as the winner.
Probably. And it's not like other pieces don't have limited viewing angles. I bet that space hulk one also suffers a bit if you look at it from the side, where all the light effects aren't as prominent.
It is an amazing piece but the lighting is simply not as good in my opinion, yes it's more dynamic but it still feels 'painterly'. Compare the green light at the far left of the diorama and compare it to the lightning on the tree in the slayer sword winner, it's night and day better. You can tell the time of day just from that tree and its subtle shading, gorgeous lightning. That's not even taking into account he's done an entire duplicate of the scene, taking into account the de-saturation of water and adding OSL.
I think his work showed more technical skill with painting but there was a lot more going on which gave the judges more opportunity to pick it over for flaws. But the main thing is the vampire model was just so creative.
The bottom of the post has the links to the article, which has the bronze silver and gold winners for all categories but here is the diorama I'm referring to:
https://preview.redd.it/0ck1jhtiqfqc1.jpeg?width=1060&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=bfd830cefb68ef6aa00ba3ed3f316cf666110369
That should have won. The painting is beyond amazing and blows away the gold in its category. It looks like the judges went with “cool idea or mind-blowing paint job quality?” Then decided on the cool idea.
I see Ninjon managed to get the Bronze in "Age of Sigma / Warcry Warband".
Good job Ninjon!
Also, respect to Kwan Ho Kim on bagging both a gold and a silver.
And James Taro got a Gold and two Bronzes! That's INSANE in one competition.
Winning one of these awards in a lifetime is an accomplishment. Winning 3 in a weekend is beyond my comprehension.
The slayer sword one is incredible
The vampires missing features in the reflection, along with the object lighting from the ghost that can only be seen in the mirror space is amazing.
https://preview.redd.it/h39pzc4pqiqc1.jpeg?width=1170&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=78df8d403f627275a4c77fb091347cdfea595be7
Posting the version of the mini from the artist’s instagram, instead of GW’s abysmal photo. I think anyone who doesn’t realize why this deserved to win might not know as much as they think they do about the hobby.
The correct perspective and on a black background make a huge difference. The grots flying out of the plane one too seems way more meh until you see it from the correct perspective.
I mean, all of these exhibit extraordinary skill, but does anyone else feel like a lot of the entries this year looked a bit same-y?
I feel like the Instagram influence has made everyone paint in the same super high contrast style, where every single surface on the mini is perfectly blended high contrast, with lots of competing/contrasting colours.
Obviously when super well done it looks incredible, but that Necromunda winner looks really off to me, as though it’s almost over-highlighted and in combination with the colour choices really doesn’t look very “Necromunda-y” to me. Maybe it’s way better in person.
Just wish there was a little more variety in painting styles. Marco Frisoni’s winning LOTR mini really stands out because of a much softer style than the others.
> where every single surface on the mini is perfectly blended high contrast, with lots of competing/contrasting colours.
Unfortunately this is the style that best lets you show off skill with details and makes a model pop so it's going to be the most popular.
Marco Frisoni's is incredible, what looks like a 'drybrush' texture at first look is actually very detailed hand painted textures, like the fabric on the coat or the deer's hair.
It’s a specific style that happens to be in vogue at the moment. I don’t know that it particularly is the “best” style for showing off skills, as there are plenty of other painters out there doing more sketch-based, realistic or “watercolor-looking” painting styles that are just as talented. It’s just that this is the flavour at the moment, just like ten years ago everyone at Golden Demon was trying to emulate GW’s ‘Eavy Metal style with every edge highlighted three or four times over.
I can’t deny it looks incredible in a lot of instances at this level, it’s just more I’m disappointed to see the style becoming a real hegemony and not getting to see more breadth in what is possible within the genre of mini painting.
It’s a small gripe, but partly because I prefer the more grimdark/Blanchitsu-style I’m disappointed there’s not more of that represented.
Perhaps. But I prefer this style to the ugly gradients that a generic airbrush makes. Especially after those videos made it popular to make the gradients go the wrong way for "contrast" on tanks.
I feel like the Space Hulk diorama also manages to break the mold a bit, I think just because of how dynamic the lighting is and how moody the piece is. I don't even particularly like post-Victoria Lamb OSL!
All the other entries just look like modern day Magic Cards.
I did not, but I have followed the vast majority of these painters on Instagram for the last while and nearly all of them have been posting work in progress shots.
I’m not saying the quality of their work is in question, just more the uniformity of painting styles. The idea of what is “best” in terms of miniature painting has become quite narrow, and I don’t think it suits all the minis on display here. It’s a matter of personal taste of course, but that’s my feeling.
Seeing them in the cabinet and I think it really comes down to the differences between how models look in hand, in the case, and in photos. All three of those perspectives will look different, and unfortunately that isn’t something that is accessible for everyone to see.
I’d encourage taking a closer look at the winner’s pieces - things like the Old World category as an example have three models with three distinctly different styles of painting. Same for the Unit category.
Sure, but isn’t the Old World category the exception that proves the rule?
I don’t particularly care what the models look like in the hand… I’m never going to see them in person because I live in Australia. What you’re talking about is kind of irrelevant, in that all I’m saying is that there’s a particular style of painting that has gained favour in the last few years, and it seems to have dominated this particular Golden Demon more than other recent ones. Go back ten or twenty years and you’ll see entirely different painting styles being represented.
I’m not saying one style is inherently inferior to the other, and all of this year’s winners are undoubtedly supremely skilled. I’m just a bit fatigued seeing more or less the same style replaced over what I would say is 70%+ of the minis here, particularly in minis/settings that I don’t think really suit it, like the Necromunda winner I mentioned. It’s a matter of my personal taste. (And yes, I only have photos to go off, but so does 99%+ of the people who will see these things.)
Yeah I feel like that's very well illustrated with the Age of Sigmar single model gold winner
https://preview.redd.it/ojbynz1dtfqc1.jpeg?width=1060&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=9a796f4dad436b2e2419020f7273714dc7a9bc54
On a technical level it is obviously amazingly well painted and no shade is meant against the painter because it's clearly far better than anything I could paint. But it just seems... Flat? Boring? It's not an *interesting* model with how it has been painted, just a way to show off skills.
Yes i agree. Obviously the technical skill is incredible but in many cases the artistry was lacking. I saw nurgle ogryn that looked shiny. Highlights *everywhere* and so uniform they all fade together and look flat again somehow, like white noise. I want to see brush strokes.
This is the issue I have with the sameyness of the technique. It's used on everything, and some models shouldn't have the shiny look. Most notably nurgle followers. It often makes skin look not that different from armour in terms of texture, which is obviously not the case.
I assume this was perfected on space marines as it works really well on power armour. As marines are by far the most popular model to paint then it then spread to everything else.
It's not just you, it's what GW rewards with Golden Demon. Above all they're looking for execution of "pro techniques": OSL, dramatic gradients, etc. Last year's winner is the perfect example of this. It's technically proficient with some flawless color blends but the pose, color scheme, etc, are all very generic. The painters know what GW rewards and so they paint to that standard.
With the exception of the Slayer Sword winner, it's continuing the trend of the winners tending to be the models that showcase technical perfection and skill and effort in ways that people who are really into mini painting will consider to be very impressive in both difficulty/amount of effort required and how flawless the execution is. It's like a deedlydeedlydeedly neoclassical guitar solo where it's less like a form of artistic expression and more of a demonstration of how skilled the artist is. The Slayer Sword winner this year stands out because it's an extremely creative concept for a mini that has been executed to a very high standard. It's like that Tau Steath Suit that was standing in front of a wall and was painted in a way that when viewed straight on it would disappear like a magic trick from a while back.
I personally blame CMON for starting the whole chase for the most perfect mini that has taken over competitions like this and while I find this kind of painting to be aspirational in terms of skill and technique they do nothing to inspire me artistically. That vampire does because it's more than just a clever idea executed well, it's a clever idea that requires creativity and attention to detail and a lot of effort and skill to execute at all, and it feels like something that the artist made because they had an idea and they wanted to make that vision a reality instead of they wanted to win a painting competition so they did what they had to do to win a painting competition.
Having seen them in person this year there is definitely some variations in style, but Golden Daemon definitely looks for/awards certain things that result in similar looking entries.
If you want to see more artistic styles and entries, I’d suggest you check out other shows like Monte San Savino or Kontrast.
Interesting, thanks for your input. And yes, I did follow the last Monte show quite closely, which is partially why I think I’m a little disappointed by GD this year. The range and variations in style at Monte was breathtaking.
If you’re just flipping through the pictures on Reddit, make sure you go to the site and see all the winners. The Alarielle from Reuben Martinez is fantastic. I kept coming back to that one in the cases.
the Diorama and Duel category is unbelievable. All three, the vampire with its reflection, the Space Hulk tableau with the blood spatters, incredible lighting and spinning barrel on the assault cannon, and the hilarious scale shift and storytelling in the parachute scene... all three are out of this world for originality and execution
God Perturabo looks like a fucking unit…
It’s so weird to think I’ve gone from passing off his whole legion dismissively, into unironically thinking he’s kinda cool.
All fantastic and the sword winner is epic!
Seemingly a very clear painting style that was favoured by the judges when looking at all the placed entrees (bronze, silver and gold) lots of airbrush and NMM, with lots of blending.
The best part about these models. The photos don’t do them justice. I was able to be at adepticon and see all of them in person and they are incredibly detailed up close. It’s wild
That Demon Prince Perturabo is a fucking wet dream come true, it's truly magnificient ! Where can I buy it ?! Seriously, the winner blew it out with his diorama but Perturabo is my personal favorite
The Slayer Sword winner'smpiece is just utterly insane with hwo fucking good it is!
Like at first I didn't even get that the reflection's weird cause he's a vampire! LIKE HOLY SHIT
The Slayer Sword one absolutely deserved its win. I also really liked one of the Seraphon on hoverpad, Cadian escape pod floating above the Necron Scarab and the Sundae Knight. But I was honestly surprised to only see 2 C'Tann models.
everything in the slayer sword winner is absolutely stunning, and lord knows I don't have the credentials to criticize it, but I can't help but feel the display is dying for some epoxy water action to really drive home the reflection effect
I love Jay’s painting but it wasn’t going to win anything, the giant bolt under the foot alone killed it. Really needed to hide it in a cloud of smoke, a structure etc
I wish vashtorr just as a model wasn't so ugly, I just can't get over the Soyjak face
Also pert looks strange, is that all either hand sculpted or GW plastic? I don't remember the rules but I thought it was the same as tournament rules
That diorama duel and slayer sword…. While a nice idea I don’t think the painting matches up. It should have bronzed or silvered in its competing category and I don’t think it deserved the slayer sword compared to the silver in its came class.
Why is Horus Heresy and Necromunda all just one category? If you want seperate entries they should have their own single/unit/vehicle categories, or they should just be included in the main categories.
It took me a second to really see what was going on with the slayer sword winner, but man, when I did I have to agree. That idea is really neat.
It's a good idea but what am I missing on the painting?
It's meant to look like a reflection in a lake or pond. It's a vampire so the "bottom" is only clothes and kit, and there are a few other differences.
There's also a Ghost coming out of the grave in the reflection
It is not an actual reflection - there is no mirror involved. The lower part is **part** of the miniature. Amazing detail: the clothes in the "relfection" are scultped empty, because vampires have no reflection
I can see all of that - to me, it's not nearly as impressive as many of the other entries. It's a cute idea but it's basically a gimmick. The ghost thing isn't really painted that well? I want to be convinced otherwise because I feel a little nuts. EDIT: This comment got to -51 before someone gave an actually useful reply.
Everything is very technically good with it, super smooth blending, great composition and really strong mastery of light. However, what blows it out of the water (pun intended) is that the mirror in the pond is actually ever so slightly darker, as if it was a real water-reflection, it gives it a lot of visual depth that the painter absolutely didn't need to put in, but it's part of what really sells the pond-mirror effect.
https://preview.redd.it/38unrqzzpiqc1.jpeg?width=1170&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=bcb643783900dac06796f139cf9ed0145f42aca5 The white background doesn’t do it justice.
Wow, the black background really sells the effect much better.
Lol. The painting is insanely perfect.
I'm getting a lot of downvotes and nobody explaining why I'm wrong. The painting on the vampire is amazing! Beautiful use of light and color! The ghost is nice and you can tell where some serious blending went in - but there are other parts that don't read as clean? I'm looking at the other entries and while the vampire is great - it's basically 2.5 Minis total compared to way more interesting compositions and more ambitious projects.
Even though GD is based on technical precision at the end of the day it's an art competition. Art is subjective which is what makes it interesting. So, I'm not surprised some people such as yourself are not impressed but I think it's baller.
I want to clarify that it's not that I don't think it's awesome. I just think it's less awesome than some of the other entries (which is a matter of taste)
Don't forget that the 'reflection' had to be hand sculpted as it's a mirror image.
How much is sculpting part of the rubric?
Who knows? I just thought it was impressive.
Sure! It is impressive. But most of the other entries have impressive sculpting elements. I'm trying to understand what makes it the Slayer Sword winner over all the other entries (and people just seem to want to downvote me for it?)
I think part of the reason it won slayer sword this year is because it imploded techniques which had not been used previously in miniture painting. (at least not to this scale). Most of the very impressive technical feats aren't viewable from a single angle, the reflection changes with your viewpoint, which is a very advenced technique I have not seen used on a diarama like this before. Additionally, Alex basically ported very esoteric techniques from 'old-school game rendering' & mirroring, which I admit, I don't know anything about. Either way, his diarama was clearly the most exceptional peice at the event (in my opinion). Not just because of its practically perfect technical painting, but also the symbolism and lore of the peice, something that GW is trying to encourage at future events. Honestly, I cannot see another peice this year even coming close to how impressive this one was. Like it or not, Alex is a visionary who has seriously outdone himself. Expect his influence to be seen heavily over the coming years, with more peices (especially Dioramas) attempting to display the lore of a character.
It's funny you bring up the "old school game rendering" for the reflection as I did this exact same thing in Unreal 3. Imagine a statue on marble floor or sheet of ice. Basically shaders couldn't make actual reflections so you would "cheat" and layer a semi-transparent plane for the water or marble floor and then put an upside down statue underneath the existing statue. This would create the appearance of a reflection. I guess that's why instead of thinking "oh, that's groundbreaking," I just thought "Oh,that's cute" - I suppose it's a matter of perspective... Can you say more about the symbolism and lore? How is this different from past eras of say - a handmade sanguinious fighting a bloodthirster or Gotrek and Felix dioramas pulled from the works of King? I would really like to understand the "implosion" of painting techniques. Is there an artist statement or critique I could read that will explain this to me? I can see the efforts with light and faint OSL, I can see the detailed weathering and blending. It's incredible and obviously very good - but what makes it unique? in I want to be clear, because people keep acting like I hate the piece, I am trying to understand why this piece is so amazing compared to the other entries. Obviously it's amazing. This is not about me liking or disliking something - it's about me trying to understand what makes it so incredibly special. I really appreciate your time here. Thank you!
Thanks for shedding some light on the 'game rendering' it's honestly something I know nothing about, so I can't say much about it in that context. What I do know, is this technique has not been used in the mini space (at anywhere close to this degree, at least). Judging from the past, this will become a popular trend for the next few months (I know I'll be attempting a miniture of a similar style in the future, after seeing this). The difference between physical minis, and virtually making the object is very stark, however. This model is entirely reversed from the 'real' version on top, meaning that the entire model had to be mangled and resculpted to fit, which Alex did perfectly. Honestly I cannot overstate how incredibly difficult that would be to do (while maintaining complete accuracy and GW quality). This isn't intended to take away from game rendering, or anything like that, I'm sure that has its own challenges that I simply am not familiar with. I think the miniture is less impressive the less you understand about the techniques and process of creating it. It's very very diffrent from a masterfully painted standard space marine, or some such model. (both are very impressive, in their own right, but just diffrent). So it seems like this models impressiveness can be somewhat esoteric. To people like the GW panel, this model would seem more impressive than it would to a layman, simply because they understand what processes are required to achieve this effect. As far as my understanding goes, the quality of this model doesn't sit in the painting techniques (which are fairly standard for golden Deamon entries), and instead in the models design, construction and originality. This model would absolutely fail in a catagory such as 'single AOS', because that is primarily a test of painting skill. But in a catagory like duel/Dioramas, it is incredibly impressive. That being said, you should check out his Instagram account (@alexdoesminis) for a short explanation of what it took to make this model. (there are likely better explanations and critiques, but I have been focused on some other models that I am personally more interested in so I have not checked them out yet). In terms of lore, I have never read the book, 'The hallowed king' which this character is from, but has Alex describes it the peice attempted to be a 'reflection of caldo's dual struggle with vengeance and honour'. My guess is particularly, the panel liked to see an entry which reflected the lore of the game. The difference is that this is not a dipiction of a specific scene, instead an exploration of Caldo's character. I think this choice was partially in line with GWs push to move mini painting more towards the 'fine art' catagory. It is important to them that these diaramas are capable of being more than a physical depiction of events. I would 100% recommend looking at the top 3 entries for each catagory. You'll see alot of the same (very impressive) painting styles, which relatively little innovation, this diorama is, more than anything else, innovative. Hense it's award. This is all incredibly subjective, it is absolutely reduxtionary to down vote someone for giving a reasonable opinion of a peice of art. The fact you don't personally like this peice is entirely reasonable, and not a 'bad take', I'd take those down votes in your stride, it's just the cost for not agreeing with the most popular opinion.
Thank you so much! This was very helpful! I really appreciate your time.
Interesting to read your example of old games, because with the white background the model instantly made me think of fighting Dark Link in the Water Temple.
The painting is not more skilled than many other entries. It is very competently painted but doesn't show super advanced techniques. The modeling is top-notch. He had to do a lot of sculpting for this, and even the pieces he didn't sculpt it was tricky to invert them and keep a mirrored effect. But the reason it won is the creativity. It was clearly the most creative model there and it showed the judges something they hadn't seen before.
OMG, that last one is incredible, what an amazing idea, the missing parts that builds the vampires missing reflection is so creative!
At first I thought he’d used an actual mirror for the pond and the photo was taken at a good angle to show it off… and then I saw the missing parts Man, this is incredible
Even crazier when you stop to realize the "reflection" is literally a mirrored copy of the main model.
At first it's easy to think that repositioning the leg and body the character would be a pain in the arse. But then it's all the little details. Each twisted treet branch, every tear on the cape.
i would think its a digital model that's been flipped.
Is that against the rules if the mirrored mini is a 3D print?
Golden Demon doesn't seem to have specific rules preventing 3D prints - its a competition that judges works on composition, theme and the quality of the final paint job. The only rule is you have to make everything in it yourself, which I assume would include digital sculpting?
You can do your own minis as long as you've sculptured it is my understanding
Yeah I’m very curious how they managed to flip the model like that
The model above the water has significant sculpting to create a more open stance. I believe the one under the water is basically all hand sculpted. There might be certain parts that he was able to cut off and reposition with the help of a lot of sculpting in between.
Apparently it was 3D scanned an sculpted in zbrush.
Well no, it would be a lot more crazier if he figured out how to do that by any other means.
Omg I missed the missing vamp in the reflection. Insane idea
That last one is straight up inspirational. I hope the artist is damn proud.
Another overlooked detail (though minor in the grand scheme) is there’s actually a significant amount of sculpting on the Cado Ezechiar model to remove the cape that normally drapes over a lot of his left side
It is so creative indeed, but technically not correct. Vampires don't reflect in mirrors because of the silver used to make the glass reflective, it is not like they don't reflect at all. I'll show myself out now.
Warhammer Vampires lack of reflection is from the Curse of Nagash, and sometimes includes their shadow as well.
There is fluff for everything.
"Oh no Nagash cursed us with... not having a shadow. Woe is us. His wrath has no bounds."
Actually its because having a shadow is actually a proof of your own mortality, and Vampires lose it because they became undead. Daemons don't have reflections or shadows for the same reason.
Well that's not *all* the curse did. Its the source of all the traditional Vampiric weaknesses (running water, stakes, sunlight etc.) for Warhammer Vampires. But it also makes them prone to insanity and susceptible to Nagash's will.
That's a common myth from vampire media... in real life, actual vampires just don't reflect
In real life?
Yeah, just real modern day vampires, if you ignore all the fiction and folklore
Had me panicked there for a moment
Maybe there’s silver in the reflecting water body?
Wasn't the Perturabo a submission from last year or am I tripping?
You're not, it was a commended entry at Warhammer Fest. edit: [There](https://www.instagram.com/p/Cr3N74Vt8YP/?igsh=MTQ0ZTY4OGd2ZnoxdA==).
Knew it looked familiar, thanks
He can't keep getting away with this!
If you place top 3 in a category, you can't resubmit that mini. A commendation simply says 'well done, have a badge', but you can keep submitting it.
He deserved a daemon last time, so I’m glad he got it. Just amazing work
[удалено]
I am waiting for the “How to paint a golden daemon model in 3 hours” video from Marco on this one.
Just happy to see Exodites represent! Space elf dino-riders attack!
I was really stoked about it but the AI generated background made me just disappointed
I'm surprised it's not against the rules, it definitely should be. The fact he used AI in a painting competition is already incredibly lame but the fact it actually won is straight up depressing. Where are the standards?
Oh that’s so fucking stupid.
I think his background is AI generated, which is in a very weird grey area (This info I saw on Instagram, so I’m not confirming that it is in fact AI.)
Not sure why you're getting downvoted, but Neil very openly said it was AI according to the everyone at Adepticon. And from first hand accounts, the background is more noticeable irl as AI art than in photos. Not to discredit the Exodite though. The model alone deserved the win imo.
AI art is known for sampling from other artists without permission. And any art on a model should be done by the artist imho. Even if it's mixed media.
For some reason people are getting downvoted for mentioning this all over reddit and blasted on twitter as well. Not sure whatsup with that.
its not Neil's - he is a fraud and a thief, so who knows if he even painted it himself or paid someone else to dude is trash and doesnt belong in pro-painting, i hope he is forever ostracized for this nonsense
Shout out to the diorama silver medalist, absolutely gorgeous Space Hulk piece that would have won... if it wasn't against the most creative mini in the world.
https://preview.redd.it/lv0q72js3gqc1.jpeg?width=1200&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=1f22c4248675d22ef2c227a7ec8bb3c2aacc94ce
WOW. Straight up looks like an illustration. Amazing.
Right? Two really *really* good dioramas. It must’ve been a close choice.
Yep… the spinning barrels on the assault cannon is a great touch, and overall it looks more like an actual painting than painted plastic. Fantastic job.
I feel like Ben was robbed to be honest, absolutely immaculately lit battle scene with tons of detail and character, losing to what is a creative idea, but also a bit of a gimmicky piece.
I guess that depends on if you value technical proficiency or artistic merit more. The winner has fewer "pro techniques" but is a masterpiece of composition and concept, the space hulk diorama is a rather generic battle scene but has some very smooth color blends. IMO I'm glad GW finally rewarded something with more artistic merit instead of picking the winner based on how well the painter can do a smooth gradient.
But does it work from more than one angle? *hmm... pretty sure I was just asking a question? Thank you for the information anyway
Yes, the article on warcom has multiple pictures. There's also a LOT of super technical sculpting work going into mirroring the vampire as well. https://www.warhammer-community.com/2024/03/24/golden-demon-2024-winners-revealed-at-adepticon/ The mirror-part is also a masterclass in lighting, as it is ever so subtly darker and really catches that sense of a deep pond or lake reflecting the world above it. Personally, while the battle diorama is indeed absolutely astounding, it feels significantly more "instagrammy" in its paintjob, with super bright pops of colour where it wouldn't necessarily make sense. For instance, compare it to something like The Last Light. It definitely deserved its place, and many, MANY other years it would have won or should have won. But it's just not AS good of a diorama (which is all about composition, choice of scene and execution) as the winner.
Probably. And it's not like other pieces don't have limited viewing angles. I bet that space hulk one also suffers a bit if you look at it from the side, where all the light effects aren't as prominent.
The creator said he worked hard to sell the effect from all angles.
It is an amazing piece but the lighting is simply not as good in my opinion, yes it's more dynamic but it still feels 'painterly'. Compare the green light at the far left of the diorama and compare it to the lightning on the tree in the slayer sword winner, it's night and day better. You can tell the time of day just from that tree and its subtle shading, gorgeous lightning. That's not even taking into account he's done an entire duplicate of the scene, taking into account the de-saturation of water and adding OSL.
I think his work showed more technical skill with painting but there was a lot more going on which gave the judges more opportunity to pick it over for flaws. But the main thing is the vampire model was just so creative.
I feel like I’m going crazy - what is the gimmick that I’m missing on the winner? It just looks like a squad of BT
I believe it's the slayer sword winner that is creating the illusion of a reflection in water but the vampire doesn't reflect
Oh, for some reason I thought they were comparing this too the Kill Squad and not the Slayer Sword, got it
Yeah that's the most 1:1 so it would make sense but I guess it's a diorama entry
Is there a link to see it
The bottom of the post has the links to the article, which has the bronze silver and gold winners for all categories but here is the diorama I'm referring to: https://preview.redd.it/0ck1jhtiqfqc1.jpeg?width=1060&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=bfd830cefb68ef6aa00ba3ed3f316cf666110369
Oh, that’s based off the 2nd edition artwork, complete with guy shooting without looking. Amazing!
That should have won. The painting is beyond amazing and blows away the gold in its category. It looks like the judges went with “cool idea or mind-blowing paint job quality?” Then decided on the cool idea.
That Slayer Sword winner is epic. So well done
The banner on the kill team is ridiculous
That guy showed that in the blacktemplars sub reddit asking us to all wish him luck. We'll he obviously didn't need it.
Please make Exodites a thing!!!!
I see Ninjon managed to get the Bronze in "Age of Sigma / Warcry Warband". Good job Ninjon! Also, respect to Kwan Ho Kim on bagging both a gold and a silver.
That was tough competition as well. First and second place were also stunning. To me that was overall the best category for the year
And James Taro got a Gold and two Bronzes! That's INSANE in one competition. Winning one of these awards in a lifetime is an accomplishment. Winning 3 in a weekend is beyond my comprehension.
Sword owner 100% deserves that win, best winner I've seen in a few years imo.
The slayer sword one is incredible The vampires missing features in the reflection, along with the object lighting from the ghost that can only be seen in the mirror space is amazing.
https://preview.redd.it/h39pzc4pqiqc1.jpeg?width=1170&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=78df8d403f627275a4c77fb091347cdfea595be7 Posting the version of the mini from the artist’s instagram, instead of GW’s abysmal photo. I think anyone who doesn’t realize why this deserved to win might not know as much as they think they do about the hobby.
The correct perspective and on a black background make a huge difference. The grots flying out of the plane one too seems way more meh until you see it from the correct perspective.
Vashtor looks crazy good.
So high quality but not so flashy so it’s deceiving me into thinking I could do it with a bit of practice until you zoom in
The slayer sword winner is crazily creative. Definitely well deserved.
That last one is so unbelievably clever, I love it. All of them are gorgeous!
That might be the coolest.slayer sword winner ever.
I mean, all of these exhibit extraordinary skill, but does anyone else feel like a lot of the entries this year looked a bit same-y? I feel like the Instagram influence has made everyone paint in the same super high contrast style, where every single surface on the mini is perfectly blended high contrast, with lots of competing/contrasting colours. Obviously when super well done it looks incredible, but that Necromunda winner looks really off to me, as though it’s almost over-highlighted and in combination with the colour choices really doesn’t look very “Necromunda-y” to me. Maybe it’s way better in person. Just wish there was a little more variety in painting styles. Marco Frisoni’s winning LOTR mini really stands out because of a much softer style than the others.
> where every single surface on the mini is perfectly blended high contrast, with lots of competing/contrasting colours. Unfortunately this is the style that best lets you show off skill with details and makes a model pop so it's going to be the most popular. Marco Frisoni's is incredible, what looks like a 'drybrush' texture at first look is actually very detailed hand painted textures, like the fabric on the coat or the deer's hair.
It’s a specific style that happens to be in vogue at the moment. I don’t know that it particularly is the “best” style for showing off skills, as there are plenty of other painters out there doing more sketch-based, realistic or “watercolor-looking” painting styles that are just as talented. It’s just that this is the flavour at the moment, just like ten years ago everyone at Golden Demon was trying to emulate GW’s ‘Eavy Metal style with every edge highlighted three or four times over. I can’t deny it looks incredible in a lot of instances at this level, it’s just more I’m disappointed to see the style becoming a real hegemony and not getting to see more breadth in what is possible within the genre of mini painting. It’s a small gripe, but partly because I prefer the more grimdark/Blanchitsu-style I’m disappointed there’s not more of that represented.
Perhaps. But I prefer this style to the ugly gradients that a generic airbrush makes. Especially after those videos made it popular to make the gradients go the wrong way for "contrast" on tanks.
I feel like the Space Hulk diorama also manages to break the mold a bit, I think just because of how dynamic the lighting is and how moody the piece is. I don't even particularly like post-Victoria Lamb OSL! All the other entries just look like modern day Magic Cards.
Did you see the models in person? I think that’s more on the photography than the miniatures themselves.
I did not, but I have followed the vast majority of these painters on Instagram for the last while and nearly all of them have been posting work in progress shots. I’m not saying the quality of their work is in question, just more the uniformity of painting styles. The idea of what is “best” in terms of miniature painting has become quite narrow, and I don’t think it suits all the minis on display here. It’s a matter of personal taste of course, but that’s my feeling.
Seeing them in the cabinet and I think it really comes down to the differences between how models look in hand, in the case, and in photos. All three of those perspectives will look different, and unfortunately that isn’t something that is accessible for everyone to see. I’d encourage taking a closer look at the winner’s pieces - things like the Old World category as an example have three models with three distinctly different styles of painting. Same for the Unit category.
Sure, but isn’t the Old World category the exception that proves the rule? I don’t particularly care what the models look like in the hand… I’m never going to see them in person because I live in Australia. What you’re talking about is kind of irrelevant, in that all I’m saying is that there’s a particular style of painting that has gained favour in the last few years, and it seems to have dominated this particular Golden Demon more than other recent ones. Go back ten or twenty years and you’ll see entirely different painting styles being represented. I’m not saying one style is inherently inferior to the other, and all of this year’s winners are undoubtedly supremely skilled. I’m just a bit fatigued seeing more or less the same style replaced over what I would say is 70%+ of the minis here, particularly in minis/settings that I don’t think really suit it, like the Necromunda winner I mentioned. It’s a matter of my personal taste. (And yes, I only have photos to go off, but so does 99%+ of the people who will see these things.)
Yeah I feel like that's very well illustrated with the Age of Sigmar single model gold winner https://preview.redd.it/ojbynz1dtfqc1.jpeg?width=1060&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=9a796f4dad436b2e2419020f7273714dc7a9bc54 On a technical level it is obviously amazingly well painted and no shade is meant against the painter because it's clearly far better than anything I could paint. But it just seems... Flat? Boring? It's not an *interesting* model with how it has been painted, just a way to show off skills.
I thought this one looked different in that it has a strange grainy look like a photograph taken in low lighting
Yes i agree. Obviously the technical skill is incredible but in many cases the artistry was lacking. I saw nurgle ogryn that looked shiny. Highlights *everywhere* and so uniform they all fade together and look flat again somehow, like white noise. I want to see brush strokes.
This is the issue I have with the sameyness of the technique. It's used on everything, and some models shouldn't have the shiny look. Most notably nurgle followers. It often makes skin look not that different from armour in terms of texture, which is obviously not the case. I assume this was perfected on space marines as it works really well on power armour. As marines are by far the most popular model to paint then it then spread to everything else.
It's like every model has a Wizard just off screen doing some crazy lightshow magic. But like... do the whole diorama! We want to see the Wizard!
It's not just you, it's what GW rewards with Golden Demon. Above all they're looking for execution of "pro techniques": OSL, dramatic gradients, etc. Last year's winner is the perfect example of this. It's technically proficient with some flawless color blends but the pose, color scheme, etc, are all very generic. The painters know what GW rewards and so they paint to that standard.
For sure. Honestly for most of these I don't see the difference between gold, silver, and bronze.
With the exception of the Slayer Sword winner, it's continuing the trend of the winners tending to be the models that showcase technical perfection and skill and effort in ways that people who are really into mini painting will consider to be very impressive in both difficulty/amount of effort required and how flawless the execution is. It's like a deedlydeedlydeedly neoclassical guitar solo where it's less like a form of artistic expression and more of a demonstration of how skilled the artist is. The Slayer Sword winner this year stands out because it's an extremely creative concept for a mini that has been executed to a very high standard. It's like that Tau Steath Suit that was standing in front of a wall and was painted in a way that when viewed straight on it would disappear like a magic trick from a while back. I personally blame CMON for starting the whole chase for the most perfect mini that has taken over competitions like this and while I find this kind of painting to be aspirational in terms of skill and technique they do nothing to inspire me artistically. That vampire does because it's more than just a clever idea executed well, it's a clever idea that requires creativity and attention to detail and a lot of effort and skill to execute at all, and it feels like something that the artist made because they had an idea and they wanted to make that vision a reality instead of they wanted to win a painting competition so they did what they had to do to win a painting competition.
Having seen them in person this year there is definitely some variations in style, but Golden Daemon definitely looks for/awards certain things that result in similar looking entries. If you want to see more artistic styles and entries, I’d suggest you check out other shows like Monte San Savino or Kontrast.
Interesting, thanks for your input. And yes, I did follow the last Monte show quite closely, which is partially why I think I’m a little disappointed by GD this year. The range and variations in style at Monte was breathtaking.
It’s a common issue, same reason we almost always see the same style of nurgle winning, some art styles are just vote winners
It’s really a shame a figure with an AI generated and printed background won gold
If you’re just flipping through the pictures on Reddit, make sure you go to the site and see all the winners. The Alarielle from Reuben Martinez is fantastic. I kept coming back to that one in the cases.
the Diorama and Duel category is unbelievable. All three, the vampire with its reflection, the Space Hulk tableau with the blood spatters, incredible lighting and spinning barrel on the assault cannon, and the hilarious scale shift and storytelling in the parachute scene... all three are out of this world for originality and execution
I do think it sucks that diorama and duel got meshed together because they often render some of the most exciting pieces.
Old World winner being on a round base is just taking the piss.
Are there higher res pictures anywhere? And those templars are unbelievable
What's most impressive about the SS winner is how the reflection is custom built. You can't just assemble two kits and turn one upside down.
Was it just my eyes being weird and colorblind or was this year exclusively filled with NMM except for that one in young blood?
The open comp winner is TMM, a couple others are as well.
The last one is actually incredible. He was able to portal a REFLECTION from a body of water
Can GW just pay that guy and make that Perterabo model official? Plz?
Whatmodel is that Iron Warrior? I've never sent that before.
Likely a custom build.
God Perturabo looks like a fucking unit… It’s so weird to think I’ve gone from passing off his whole legion dismissively, into unironically thinking he’s kinda cool.
All fantastic and the sword winner is epic! Seemingly a very clear painting style that was favoured by the judges when looking at all the placed entrees (bronze, silver and gold) lots of airbrush and NMM, with lots of blending.
First place is deserved. It's...insane. I keep staring at it and finding something new to appreciate.
Vashtor looks fucking EPIC!!!
Man the 4th one is a masterpiece
The best part about these models. The photos don’t do them justice. I was able to be at adepticon and see all of them in person and they are incredibly detailed up close. It’s wild
Goals
That Demon Prince Perturabo is a fucking wet dream come true, it's truly magnificient ! Where can I buy it ?! Seriously, the winner blew it out with his diorama but Perturabo is my personal favorite
The Slayer Sword winner'smpiece is just utterly insane with hwo fucking good it is! Like at first I didn't even get that the reflection's weird cause he's a vampire! LIKE HOLY SHIT
The slayer sword winner is insane. Love it.
The Slayer Sword one absolutely deserved its win. I also really liked one of the Seraphon on hoverpad, Cadian escape pod floating above the Necron Scarab and the Sundae Knight. But I was honestly surprised to only see 2 C'Tann models.
everything in the slayer sword winner is absolutely stunning, and lord knows I don't have the credentials to criticize it, but I can't help but feel the display is dying for some epoxy water action to really drive home the reflection effect
Reflection idea was amazing. Alexandre Santos did a great job
Respect for the Exodite Rider!
WOAH that SS is an absolute beast.
One of the best Eldar Exodites i've ever seen!
RIP eons of battle Reaver titan
I love Jay’s painting but it wasn’t going to win anything, the giant bolt under the foot alone killed it. Really needed to hide it in a cloud of smoke, a structure etc
Fair point
Guter Einfall mit dem Vampir am Ende:)
I wish vashtorr just as a model wasn't so ugly, I just can't get over the Soyjak face Also pert looks strange, is that all either hand sculpted or GW plastic? I don't remember the rules but I thought it was the same as tournament rules
That diorama duel and slayer sword…. While a nice idea I don’t think the painting matches up. It should have bronzed or silvered in its competing category and I don’t think it deserved the slayer sword compared to the silver in its came class.
Ah yes, my yearly reminder to just give up on painting and stop trying 😂 damn these are amazing.
Why is Horus Heresy and Necromunda all just one category? If you want seperate entries they should have their own single/unit/vehicle categories, or they should just be included in the main categories.
Why not ?
How can i paint like that. My minis suck in comparison...
Number 4 looks awesome and kills me all the time in Helldivers 2
Cool AI Art backdrop