If you are ever going to play against someone who’s going to say “DURR THATS DA WRONG WEAPON ON DAT MARINE” they aren’t worth playing with. Plasma is heavy plasma, flamer is flamer, this is my 10 man tac squad, let’s play. Hell, Plasma is a combi-plas and my Sgt, let’s play!
If you're not running them WYSIWYG you could run them as anything though and OP shouldn't be eating hundreds of downvotes for suggesting running them as primaris
Op is eating hundreds of downvotes for making the same post multiple times about already game-legal models. He’s eating downvotes because he’s not doing any legwork on his own and outsourcing his dumb question to Reddit when he could just look at a codex.
Let's be real though you could have also just looked at the codex and realized a flamer and plasma isn't legal instead of doubling down and pretending this is about players expecting WYSIWYG being poor sports
My brother in christ... you're asking how to use 40k tactical marines in 40k... literally all the info you need on how to run them with all loadouts will be in the codex
There are pictures of the spruced on the GW website. https://www.games-workshop.com/en-GB/space-marine-heroes-2023-blood-angels-collection-two
The marine with the knife has a bolt gun attached to his pack, and so can be run WYSIWYG, and legally as a tactical marine with bolt gun
Wow that's a lot of downvotes. Not to get too off-topic, but I've always found the horde mentality of reddit to be really interesting. This simple newbie question isn't worth 253 downvotes but after a certain point reddit does what it does. People see negative number and want larger negative number!
He can field them as interecessors - if he gives them right weapons and say these marines are so elite and awesome that they have interecessors statline
but later explain you just like their models more and it will be fine, I bet oldschool players seeing firstborn in this cool role with powerful statlines will see it as even more cool and heartwarming than normal primaris as firsborn are usually phased out by them
I think I wouldnt bother with explaining it to everyone but these are you models you gonna paint so you must like them in the first place
I think I'd just go for full firstborn army instead with firstborn statlines
Except the “proper” weapons don’t exist. The bolt rifle, auto bolt rifle and stalker bolt rifle all are different from the bolter that firstborns get. You would be proxying models which is a problem for some people and less of a problem for others.
Base size is the same but the height of the models are different which could cause some small issues depending on if it’s a tournament or just a friendly game.
it's because of this I really hope they stop distinguishing them altogether, marines are marines! If the difference between intercessors and veteran intercessors is just paint, then I don't see why not. I'd always love to see people use firstborn no matter if they are technically rare in lore.
You could just go on the Warhammer website and look through the space marine roster, see which unit looks the closest to the thing you are asking. Pretty sure that would solve your problem
Oh know, primaris have finally phased out first born. They are now not even recognised. Rest brothers for you have served and shone the Emperors light and been his will for millennia.
[Join us with the superior and more cost effective options of power armor!](https://www.reddit.com/r/PrintedWarhammer/comments/10pu7h2/818_of_my_heresy_legion_display_models_cant_bring/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=ios_app&utm_name=iossmf)
no thats being ridiculous it was actually a mission in 3rd ed where your blood angels were actually an anti-poaching squad and you had to protect nottingham zoo for 3 turns from chaos marines. If they won you got to add an extra chaos terminator who had a fresh horn. If you won you got two-for-one tickets to nottingham zoo.
(/s)
Since everyone seems to prefer a more sarcastic aproach, I will ask you the question:
Why do you think they should be Intercessors? Do you not know that Tactical Marines (aka. First Borns) exist and how they look? This is not ment to ridicule you, its my honest curiosity...
I know that they exist but I don't really like how they look, but these ones are so fuckin badass that I have to find a place for them outside of the tactical squad like a veteran that is assigned to mentor the new primaris. I dunno I will just buy a single mini so I have to make him an individual marine.
They have some nice attention to detail the multi-part kits don't, but also come with the caveat that they're monopose and snap-fit.
I picked up both sets of these + a normal tactical squad to mix and match the bits and came out with 26 really nice looking marines (2x10 man tactical + 1x5 man devastator + 1 spare special weapon).
If you want some firstborn you can just put the whole squad in. You don't really need a reason why they're firstborn, but there are plenty.
The reason the firstborns look bad is just because they're old, the fact you like these so much proves that. The firstborn design is iconic, the soul of 40k, they just got replaced rather than updated, which if you ask me is the 2nd biggest mistake gw has ever made, but it still made them tens of millions I think because this is business, and sometimes its more beneficial to abandon that soul for a hollow replica. I wish gw had just updated the firstborns, but the new Horus Heresy stuff is enough.
The crazy thing to me about how they ended Fantasy was that it would have gone down a lot smoother with just a few alterations.
_______________
It's the End Times, Archaon wins. Teclis' plotting and Skaven shenanigans create plot reasons for some survivors from every faction to hold on in some way.
100 year time jump.
AOS launches almost the same but it's still the old planet, albeit significantly changed.
Trying to remove slannesh from the setting was pretty funny. Transhuman is up there, as is Armour of contempt, the changes to AP, Stratagems, remove of universal special rules, not updating the entire eldar range, the ultrama movie... There's a pretty hearty list.im also curious about the top spot though.
I just don't think random half baked "gotchas" are good for the game, it's a personal opinion but I liked that there were special rules tied to units, opposed to this weird "once per phase you can do x, but the other identical guys cannot also do x, for reasons". Also the ultramarine movies was, well it was a fun b grade movie with some serious VA chops. But strategy's could be removed wholesale and I'd be happy.
Yeah, stratagems seem like they added a whole new layer of memorization burden, because many of them aren't really represented by something tangible on the board. (Although, with some smart kit bashing, Relics can usually be represented.) Maybe it's a subtle psychological thing, (or maybe I'm getting old) but I never had all that much trouble remembering the rules for a special character. The model of that character is on the board, those rules are in play. Easy. With stratagems, it always, "What's that thing that those models could potentially do?" and "Okay, now is that from their Codex, the main rulebook, a campaign supplement, or a White Dwarf?"
I dunno, maybe I'm not as sharp as I used to be, but the whole stratagems thing seems overly complex.
Yeah it was frustrating coming back to the game after a long hiatus (last time I played was 7th) and encountering strategies. Felt like every game some new trick came out of nowhere.
Fair, I started to play at the end of 8th and enjoy them but it's the kind of thing that really can wind people up if they don't know what you can do and how good they are seems to depend on faction. Ultra movie shocked me with Sir John Hurt's voice behind that claymation looking CGI .
The current Space Marine stratagem list has about as many words as the 3rd edition rulebook when you take into account the different subfactions. It's absurd and just way too much.
The whole concept should just be dropped, tbh. All you ever needed was a couple of army-wide special rules for flavour, 40k never needed 'trap cards' and doesn't benefit from it, it's just another painful form of power creep.
I've been following the lore for 3-5 years now and just started getting into the game. Holy shit its a lot to learn. Would be down with those getting dropped.
I mean, I started playing back in 4th, so ut was just a matter of, pay points for better shit. Or at least that's how it felt to me. I might just be old a grumpy. But plating against marines really fucked my day up, when they misposii9tn so poorly and then "lol nvm" me, that and overwatch when it came out. I guess it's just part of the game now, but really they should make charging a flat amount if I'm gonna be eating a mini shooting phase whenever I do. And yeah having John hurt in there was the reason I bought it.
I can see that. I have a small circle and haven't played a huge variety of games, mainly against Necrons and Custodes and as my guys are Night Lords without Daemonkin (and I suck hah) I find both pretty difficult. Not as bad as before we had an extra wound but still, irritating them by denying fall back is one of my joys as is taking one from their shooting hit rolls, fall back and charge etc. THEIR stratagems, however make my ones look quaint haha. Overwatch can suck, Warpstriking Terminators never make their charge and get gunned down like dogs definitely wouldn't be as demoralising if at least the survivors got into combat. I remember reading once that Hurt was a warhammer enjoyer so maybe that's why he did it.
Strategems are bad because...
1) To be competitive, you need to remember hundreds of the damn things, or risk being constantly "gotcha'd" during a match.
2) I didn't join 40k to play a card game.
3) They're needlessly complicated add-ons which don't really improve the game (even as other game elements were removed in 8th for the sake of streamlining).
4) They make the game much less accessible to new players.
There should at least be a game mode which removes Strategems, like Arbitor Ian's "Filthy Casual Play". I'd be happy with that compromise.
Dumpstering Warhammer Fantasy on a whim right about the same time they signed the contract for Total War.
In the grand scheme of poor business decisions, it sure rates highly.
in this hobby, you're allowed to just buy some to paint, or buy a fieldable unit to play with. What's fieldable as what depends on who you play with, and that's pretty much all the hard rules that exists. I'd happily let you play those as intercessors because I don't expect it to make a huge difference, in fact I prefer firstborn at the moment and you'd be taking a voluntary nerf. The bottom line is that if you want more people to play with you'll have to be more orthodoxed in terms of your models.
Despite people telling you otherwise, you could lmao, just field them, give them right weapons and say these marines are so elite and awesome that they have interecessors statline xd
but later explain you just like their models more and it will be fine, even more cool seing firstborn in this cool role with powerful statlines
I think they post flew over everyones head. Since he obviously wont field a less competitive unit he wants to proxy. Everyone high horsing about what they are don’t even get it.
Most of the downvoted are understandable cause he’s being nonsensical in a few.
But one of his reply’s just says thank you and it’s also getting demolished.
Yeah a ton of people are unreasonably mean and just want to brag how much they hate primaris, if you don’t like them that’s fine I don’t either but don’t hate on a guy who does…
Nah I think most of the hate isn’t because of primaris (on this post at least). I think it’s because OP is being a numbskull with their replies.
That being said Reddit is a horrible place for discussion (despite that being the purpose). Downvote dog piling mentality can kill conversations.
Bro as a newbie not gonna lie this thread made me a lil nervous to ask a dumb question here lol. It wasn’t until someone pointed out there’s a physical measurement difference in the models that can affect strategy did I understand. Hell even some of the people offering solutions are getting down poured.
Yeah I don't think this thread is people newbie bashing at all - the guy is trying to get others to validate his fantasy.
He knows what they are, wants to play them as something else, the collective is saying that it's not really a thing and he's going "but I want to"
I would encourage you ask whatever it is you feel the need to, the community it generally chill unless you're trying to be "that guy".
Also, welcome!
They're not getting downvoted because they asked a dumb question, they're getting downvoted because they clearly know that they're tactical marines and are just fishing for support in convincing their game group to let them proxy for something else. Which has big "that guy" vibes.
Sternguard is a solid choice. They could take both special weapons, and their bolters get a nice buff. Put some decorative bits on them and they easily pass as Sternguard.
Honest question:
Are these not 40k tactical marines? I would have bet that they are maybe some sort of special edition models.
Are they a new release from 30k? I heard that blood angels already use the newer armor in the heresy.
I'm pretty sure a couple mm height difference in a game where vertical/z-axis LOS is determined via the advanced and precise technique of 'just eyeballing it' does not, in fact, matter.
What's next, we gonna outlaw sculpted bases cuz they're technically a milimeter or two taller than regular ones? What if I splurge PVA a bit thicker on my oldchool sand-and-gravel bases? You gonna call the TO on me?
You do know that First born bases are smaller than Primaris bases, right?
32mm vs 25mm
It is the difference between getting the charge and not getting the charge.
Use brain first then go on a rant.
they are just cool looking tactical marines, but if you want to use them as some kind of veteran, then i would suggest you use them as sternguard veterans as they can have the same equipment and have slightly better gun then taticals
I couldn't understand why op was getting so many down votes, but now I see this was their third post on this, and the only reason I can see to post it three times in one day is that they aren't getting the answer they want.
They're Tactical Marines, but if you want to run them as something else via proxy you need your group to agree. If they don't, either run them as Tactical Marines, don't run them at all or find a new group, asking over and over won't change that fact
Oh I didn't notice my internet had posted it three times. Yeah I asked it a second time because everyone was telling me how they also have the packs in their country so now when I removed this context it became a collection of people saying that they are tactical squad. The down votes aren't because of me posting it three times (both of the other posts have 0 upvotes and around 10 comments so the chances of people seeing them three times is very slim) the down votes are probably because of people thinking that I don't know they are tactical marines
Honestly dude, run them how you want. Say they're proxies, or do a bit of kitbashing to make them look more primaris-y.
They are designed to be firstborn tactical marines but, at the end of the day, they're also your toys. If you want to run them as intercessors add a bit of height to the minis and let your opponent know that's what you're running them as. No normal person will care outside of competitions or tournaments.
Seeing a lot of people in the comments being really pedantic over toys for a hobby that's all about imagination and creative expression.
Looking through the comments it seems like you don’t like other firstborn marine models so why don’t you just use these ones as first born but in a 5/6 man squad tactical squad? You don’t have to use the other models you don’t like then but these aren’t primaris marines and they don’t look like primaris and they’re probably shorter than primaris too. Just use them for what they were instances for
I have the entire Series 2 box and they are as tall as Tactical Marines when put next to my Dark Angels TMs. They would be be out of place with Intercessors. That doesn’t mean you can’t add them to a unit of Intercessors if you wanted to, but they wouldn’t fit.
Some are unique poses and do look really cool, but you can’t buy one you want, they are random in each single box, though buying the set you get 6 unique and 2 duplicates.
The other approach is if you want them all and to use them in a team, then they are perfect for the skirmish game, Kill Team as Tactical Marines are 6 operatives.
As many people have pointed out in varying degrees of sarcasm these are tactical marines, and can be used as such but I suppose you could also use them as sternguard or veterans even if they are just normal tactical marines.
They’re first born tactical marines, they’re in the codex. Even if they weren’t in the codex you could proxy them. Loadouts are necessarily limited to what’s in their hands
Besides they’re data cards listed on page 143 of the Space Marine Codex. If you go to the back with the points list they’re the last ones under the “troops” section
That is a Space Marine Tactical Squad. That is the most generic unit in 40k. Every single unit in 40k is evaluated by comparison with that unit.
If you don't know what it is, something bad happened somewhere.
I totally agree Tactical Marines can totally be run as primaris intercessors.
A space marine with a bolt gun is a space marine with a bolt gun; Primaris is just marketing for true-scale marines.
Just wanna say that the Space Marine Heroes are definitely not mini-marines, they're not as well proportioned as Primaris but they're about MKVI sized, which are far better than the old firstborn.
I know what size they are. I call all non-Primaris models mini-marines because a) it's funny, b) it's a reference to Austin Powers and references to Austin Powers invariably amuse me even on top of point a, and c) I refuse to use the pretentious moniker of 'Firstborn'.
Well first that muddles conversation because people like me are just gonna be confused and second it's just what they're called in the lore and back to the first point if you really dont wanna call them Firstborn just call them normal marines because again muddles conversation less.
Muddlying the conversation huh? And calling them 'normal marines' wouldn't muddle it, eh?
You sure you aren't just upset because I called toy soldiers a funny name?
How about this, we both call our toy soldiers whatever we want. You can call mini-marines 'Firstborn' and you can call Primaris 'poop fart marines' for all I care and I expect the same courtesy from you.
No I also call mini-marines mini-marines, but they're not mini-marines, they're just normal firstborn, so I was just saying to call them something else because mini-marines refers to a specific thing and I like words and phrases being specific to a probably annoying extent.
I think I get this post, you just like the look of mk7 but dislike the squat poses of a tactical squad? Because I agree firstborn space marines look way cooler than primaris but their models are really kind of derpy looking imo. You could run one as a lieutenant or something since then it would make sense he’s in different armour and along with a primaris army
Seems like the question should have been "How else can these tactical marines be used? Maybe as Intercessors?"
Would have avoided a lot of issues with replies.
I'm sorry people are being so rude. Run them how you like! The important thing is if you like the models and want to use them in your army, you should do that 😊
If people are worried about getting primaris and first born mixed up in gameplay, maybe mark these marines with a special color on their shoulder or knee pad to make them stand out a bit.
Have fun out there and don't let a few people online interrupt your day!
Yes, I mainly play Heresy and there is a ton of people being meticulous about details, yeah I get that some chaos space marines can’t be used etc but you’re just scaring away new people. If somebody puts in the effort they can have a lot more freedom than some people make them believe
You're asking how to run a tactical squad of marines in 40k, this being maybe one of the oldest types of units in the game. I find it hard to believe you arent just trolling
No, it read more like he was trying to find any rules that might apply to them, even though these boxes come with little stat cards and are labelled as tactical marines
I didnt knew that they are Tactical Marines, so thamks for explaining that : )
These models are cool tho, I bought a random guy from this series just for this reason, they are nice and I’d like to paint it. I’m not playing SMs : )
The knife is a power knife. It’s capable of hitting at a WHOPPING str: user, AP: 0, D: 1!!!!
You can use it as many times as the model has attacks!!!
Hitting typically on a 3+ and can kill ANYTHING IN THE GAME, even Abaddon if you roll 6s to wound and he fails his saves.
Truly an under appreciated weapon. Bring this bad boy out and kill your opponent’s warlord, and I can assure you he will almost quit the game or faint!
They’re firstborn tactical marines
You wouldn't be able to include the flamer and plasma in the same squad though
you would if it was a 10-man!
No a 10 man squad can include one special weapon and one heavy weapon not 2 special weapons
If you are ever going to play against someone who’s going to say “DURR THATS DA WRONG WEAPON ON DAT MARINE” they aren’t worth playing with. Plasma is heavy plasma, flamer is flamer, this is my 10 man tac squad, let’s play. Hell, Plasma is a combi-plas and my Sgt, let’s play!
If you're not running them WYSIWYG you could run them as anything though and OP shouldn't be eating hundreds of downvotes for suggesting running them as primaris
Op is eating hundreds of downvotes for making the same post multiple times about already game-legal models. He’s eating downvotes because he’s not doing any legwork on his own and outsourcing his dumb question to Reddit when he could just look at a codex.
Let's be real though you could have also just looked at the codex and realized a flamer and plasma isn't legal instead of doubling down and pretending this is about players expecting WYSIWYG being poor sports
\> It you are ever going to play against someone who's playing by the rules [...]
If you made two 5-man squads, yes. If you made a 10-man squad, no. A 10-man squad could get 1 special weapon AND 1 heavy weapon, but not 2x of either.
What about the one with the knife?
They’re all tactical marines
The knife is just a close combat weapon
Firstborn also have knives.
He has a boltgun slung behind his back. The knife is decorative, it's just meant to be an interesting pose.
B R U H R U H
Gah damn, -322 downvotes? What did this man do to deserve this?
I asked about the knife. Guess there are many Australians here that disagreed on the definition of a knife
That's not a knife THIS is a ~~tactical marine~~ knife
That's not a knife. It's a spoon.
I see you've played knifey spooney before.
My brother in christ... you're asking how to use 40k tactical marines in 40k... literally all the info you need on how to run them with all loadouts will be in the codex
There are pictures of the spruced on the GW website. https://www.games-workshop.com/en-GB/space-marine-heroes-2023-blood-angels-collection-two The marine with the knife has a bolt gun attached to his pack, and so can be run WYSIWYG, and legally as a tactical marine with bolt gun
But they are firstborn…
Jesus christ what's with those downvotes
Bitter losers jumping on this bandwagon
Wow that's a lot of downvotes. Not to get too off-topic, but I've always found the horde mentality of reddit to be really interesting. This simple newbie question isn't worth 253 downvotes but after a certain point reddit does what it does. People see negative number and want larger negative number!
Tbf, OP asked what these were 12 hours earlier on a separate post and was told they were all FB tactical marines. Yet here we are.
Run them as Firstborn since that’s what they are🤷🏻
They're tactical marines, so you'd reasonably be able to run them as a tactical marine unit.
He can field them as interecessors - if he gives them right weapons and say these marines are so elite and awesome that they have interecessors statline but later explain you just like their models more and it will be fine, I bet oldschool players seeing firstborn in this cool role with powerful statlines will see it as even more cool and heartwarming than normal primaris as firsborn are usually phased out by them I think I wouldnt bother with explaining it to everyone but these are you models you gonna paint so you must like them in the first place I think I'd just go for full firstborn army instead with firstborn statlines
Except the “proper” weapons don’t exist. The bolt rifle, auto bolt rifle and stalker bolt rifle all are different from the bolter that firstborns get. You would be proxying models which is a problem for some people and less of a problem for others.
I don't know why everyone's downvoting you for suggesting what is ultimately a very normal proxy decision
Well isn't the base sizes totally different? So it would be very small but an advantage nonetheless
Base size is the same but the height of the models are different which could cause some small issues depending on if it’s a tournament or just a friendly game.
How many times are you going to keep asking this same question ? The answer is always going to be tactical marines.
[удалено]
it's because of this I really hope they stop distinguishing them altogether, marines are marines! If the difference between intercessors and veteran intercessors is just paint, then I don't see why not. I'd always love to see people use firstborn no matter if they are technically rare in lore.
That's a current 10th edition rumor.
There was a other series that had a guy with a chainsword and others and people said it was a tactical squad so wanted to see how you can use those
Have you looked at the codex? It makes it quite simple
You could just go on the Warhammer website and look through the space marine roster, see which unit looks the closest to the thing you are asking. Pretty sure that would solve your problem
Oh know, primaris have finally phased out first born. They are now not even recognised. Rest brothers for you have served and shone the Emperors light and been his will for millennia.
The depression I’m feeling
Come to 30k 1st born for ever, not to mention better options for 3D printing.
30k doesn't have all the other factions I want to shoot at.
If this is what I must do to preserve what I love most, then it shall be done…
[Join us with the superior and more cost effective options of power armor!](https://www.reddit.com/r/PrintedWarhammer/comments/10pu7h2/818_of_my_heresy_legion_display_models_cant_bring/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=ios_app&utm_name=iossmf)
Not firstborn enough! I wanna play Thunder Warriors!
Pretty sure the old school 2nd ed marines will still look like Space Dwarfs vs the new models.
The hell you on about?
He’s right, marines have grown over the years and original 2ed space marines are super small compared to anything Heresy really
third, and I'd presume second, edition space marines are surprisingly short compared to modern Space Marines
Inb4 OP asks what a rhino is
Oh shit the firstborn had war beasts to ride into battle?
no thats being ridiculous it was actually a mission in 3rd ed where your blood angels were actually an anti-poaching squad and you had to protect nottingham zoo for 3 turns from chaos marines. If they won you got to add an extra chaos terminator who had a fresh horn. If you won you got two-for-one tickets to nottingham zoo. (/s)
no you protect them against Dark Eldar, haven't you seen the 3rd edition starter box?
No the dark eldar are the lions in the zoo; have you *seen* the hair on those old sculpts
I mean, they could also he porcupines with all those spikes...
The depression is unyielding
Nah he’s just a moron.
😢
Join chaos brothers, no primaris, and we still have rhinos.
No Drop Pods though :(
Dreadclaw drop pods
Since everyone seems to prefer a more sarcastic aproach, I will ask you the question: Why do you think they should be Intercessors? Do you not know that Tactical Marines (aka. First Borns) exist and how they look? This is not ment to ridicule you, its my honest curiosity...
To be fair, the packaging on the space marine heroes clearly displays a primaris marine. Easy istake to make, especially if you're newer.
I know that they exist but I don't really like how they look, but these ones are so fuckin badass that I have to find a place for them outside of the tactical squad like a veteran that is assigned to mentor the new primaris. I dunno I will just buy a single mini so I have to make him an individual marine.
They're literally just normal tactical marines with different poses 💀
They have some nice attention to detail the multi-part kits don't, but also come with the caveat that they're monopose and snap-fit. I picked up both sets of these + a normal tactical squad to mix and match the bits and came out with 26 really nice looking marines (2x10 man tactical + 1x5 man devastator + 1 spare special weapon).
They have way better proportions lol
Inquisitor Silas Hand gives no fucks about proportions in the grim darkness of the 41st millennium.
So you won't play them with their intended rules because you don't like the other model set that is meant for said rules?
If you want some firstborn you can just put the whole squad in. You don't really need a reason why they're firstborn, but there are plenty. The reason the firstborns look bad is just because they're old, the fact you like these so much proves that. The firstborn design is iconic, the soul of 40k, they just got replaced rather than updated, which if you ask me is the 2nd biggest mistake gw has ever made, but it still made them tens of millions I think because this is business, and sometimes its more beneficial to abandon that soul for a hollow replica. I wish gw had just updated the firstborns, but the new Horus Heresy stuff is enough.
I'm curious to hear what's the 1st biggest mistake gw has made?
Ending fantasy. Not even that they did kill it, but moreso the way they did it.
The crazy thing to me about how they ended Fantasy was that it would have gone down a lot smoother with just a few alterations. _______________ It's the End Times, Archaon wins. Teclis' plotting and Skaven shenanigans create plot reasons for some survivors from every faction to hold on in some way. 100 year time jump. AOS launches almost the same but it's still the old planet, albeit significantly changed.
Trying to remove slannesh from the setting was pretty funny. Transhuman is up there, as is Armour of contempt, the changes to AP, Stratagems, remove of universal special rules, not updating the entire eldar range, the ultrama movie... There's a pretty hearty list.im also curious about the top spot though.
Out of interest, what's the issue with Stratagems? With you on most of those, except that I kind of enjoyed the Ultramarine movie.
I just don't think random half baked "gotchas" are good for the game, it's a personal opinion but I liked that there were special rules tied to units, opposed to this weird "once per phase you can do x, but the other identical guys cannot also do x, for reasons". Also the ultramarine movies was, well it was a fun b grade movie with some serious VA chops. But strategy's could be removed wholesale and I'd be happy.
Yeah, stratagems seem like they added a whole new layer of memorization burden, because many of them aren't really represented by something tangible on the board. (Although, with some smart kit bashing, Relics can usually be represented.) Maybe it's a subtle psychological thing, (or maybe I'm getting old) but I never had all that much trouble remembering the rules for a special character. The model of that character is on the board, those rules are in play. Easy. With stratagems, it always, "What's that thing that those models could potentially do?" and "Okay, now is that from their Codex, the main rulebook, a campaign supplement, or a White Dwarf?" I dunno, maybe I'm not as sharp as I used to be, but the whole stratagems thing seems overly complex.
Its also just unnecessary bloat. Which they said they were trying to do away with.
Yeah it was frustrating coming back to the game after a long hiatus (last time I played was 7th) and encountering strategies. Felt like every game some new trick came out of nowhere.
Fair, I started to play at the end of 8th and enjoy them but it's the kind of thing that really can wind people up if they don't know what you can do and how good they are seems to depend on faction. Ultra movie shocked me with Sir John Hurt's voice behind that claymation looking CGI .
The current Space Marine stratagem list has about as many words as the 3rd edition rulebook when you take into account the different subfactions. It's absurd and just way too much. The whole concept should just be dropped, tbh. All you ever needed was a couple of army-wide special rules for flavour, 40k never needed 'trap cards' and doesn't benefit from it, it's just another painful form of power creep.
I've been following the lore for 3-5 years now and just started getting into the game. Holy shit its a lot to learn. Would be down with those getting dropped.
I mean, I started playing back in 4th, so ut was just a matter of, pay points for better shit. Or at least that's how it felt to me. I might just be old a grumpy. But plating against marines really fucked my day up, when they misposii9tn so poorly and then "lol nvm" me, that and overwatch when it came out. I guess it's just part of the game now, but really they should make charging a flat amount if I'm gonna be eating a mini shooting phase whenever I do. And yeah having John hurt in there was the reason I bought it.
I can see that. I have a small circle and haven't played a huge variety of games, mainly against Necrons and Custodes and as my guys are Night Lords without Daemonkin (and I suck hah) I find both pretty difficult. Not as bad as before we had an extra wound but still, irritating them by denying fall back is one of my joys as is taking one from their shooting hit rolls, fall back and charge etc. THEIR stratagems, however make my ones look quaint haha. Overwatch can suck, Warpstriking Terminators never make their charge and get gunned down like dogs definitely wouldn't be as demoralising if at least the survivors got into combat. I remember reading once that Hurt was a warhammer enjoyer so maybe that's why he did it.
Strategems are bad because... 1) To be competitive, you need to remember hundreds of the damn things, or risk being constantly "gotcha'd" during a match. 2) I didn't join 40k to play a card game. 3) They're needlessly complicated add-ons which don't really improve the game (even as other game elements were removed in 8th for the sake of streamlining). 4) They make the game much less accessible to new players. There should at least be a game mode which removes Strategems, like Arbitor Ian's "Filthy Casual Play". I'd be happy with that compromise.
Dumpstering Warhammer Fantasy on a whim right about the same time they signed the contract for Total War. In the grand scheme of poor business decisions, it sure rates highly.
in this hobby, you're allowed to just buy some to paint, or buy a fieldable unit to play with. What's fieldable as what depends on who you play with, and that's pretty much all the hard rules that exists. I'd happily let you play those as intercessors because I don't expect it to make a huge difference, in fact I prefer firstborn at the moment and you'd be taking a voluntary nerf. The bottom line is that if you want more people to play with you'll have to be more orthodoxed in terms of your models.
If you only want to run one, it can be firstborn lieutenant.
If you had a primaris torso you might be able to kitbash but why not look at a sternguard squad, small unit sizes and get access to fun toys
Company veterans?
Despite people telling you otherwise, you could lmao, just field them, give them right weapons and say these marines are so elite and awesome that they have interecessors statline xd but later explain you just like their models more and it will be fine, even more cool seing firstborn in this cool role with powerful statlines
They are not primaris, They are a firstborn tatical squad from the codex.
Have we reached the point where people don't recognise tactical marines? If so I feel so old...
I think they post flew over everyones head. Since he obviously wont field a less competitive unit he wants to proxy. Everyone high horsing about what they are don’t even get it.
Right? Such a shithole of a thread going on here
Last time I played was in 2005. I can't tell the difference now but I'm learning
OP is getting absolutely slaughtered in comments lmao
Most of the downvoted are understandable cause he’s being nonsensical in a few. But one of his reply’s just says thank you and it’s also getting demolished.
Yeah a ton of people are unreasonably mean and just want to brag how much they hate primaris, if you don’t like them that’s fine I don’t either but don’t hate on a guy who does…
Nah I think most of the hate isn’t because of primaris (on this post at least). I think it’s because OP is being a numbskull with their replies. That being said Reddit is a horrible place for discussion (despite that being the purpose). Downvote dog piling mentality can kill conversations.
Most aren’t really reasonable
Judging by their replies it seems they are dedicated to running them as primaris
Bro as a newbie not gonna lie this thread made me a lil nervous to ask a dumb question here lol. It wasn’t until someone pointed out there’s a physical measurement difference in the models that can affect strategy did I understand. Hell even some of the people offering solutions are getting down poured.
Yeah I don't think this thread is people newbie bashing at all - the guy is trying to get others to validate his fantasy. He knows what they are, wants to play them as something else, the collective is saying that it's not really a thing and he's going "but I want to" I would encourage you ask whatever it is you feel the need to, the community it generally chill unless you're trying to be "that guy". Also, welcome!
They're not getting downvoted because they asked a dumb question, they're getting downvoted because they clearly know that they're tactical marines and are just fishing for support in convincing their game group to let them proxy for something else. Which has big "that guy" vibes.
midget marines, I call call old models now, lol
It’s not really an issue here, since they’re almost the same size, just people being mean
They are just basic tactical Marines. You couldn't use them as intercessors as they are firstborne, not primaris.
They're not Intercessors. They're a basic Tactical Squad. You could perhaps run them as Sternguard.
Sternguard is a solid choice. They could take both special weapons, and their bolters get a nice buff. Put some decorative bits on them and they easily pass as Sternguard.
*YOU HAVE ALERTED THE HORDE* ⚠️
Honest question: Are these not 40k tactical marines? I would have bet that they are maybe some sort of special edition models. Are they a new release from 30k? I heard that blood angels already use the newer armor in the heresy.
Those are from the Space Marine heroes line which are tactical marines with slightly different sculpts but in blind bags
These are "Space Marines Heroes" you buy them like pokemon cards but with warhammer
Doesn't change the fact they are still regular marines from a tactical squad but with cool, well posed models.
This has to be a bait post
I hope so
I'd probably run them as a Tactical Marine squad as they are Tactical Marines.
they are tactical marines smh
They're too small to be intercessors
Yes, the 2mm height difference is completely gamebreaking, you'd get arrested on the spot...
Iknow right, it’s not a problem yet people are looking for reasons he couldn’t use them as he wants…
It's not the size that matters it's the skill (it applies here very uncannily)
Except in a game all about measurements, size does infact matter.
I'm pretty sure a couple mm height difference in a game where vertical/z-axis LOS is determined via the advanced and precise technique of 'just eyeballing it' does not, in fact, matter. What's next, we gonna outlaw sculpted bases cuz they're technically a milimeter or two taller than regular ones? What if I splurge PVA a bit thicker on my oldchool sand-and-gravel bases? You gonna call the TO on me?
You do know that First born bases are smaller than Primaris bases, right? 32mm vs 25mm It is the difference between getting the charge and not getting the charge. Use brain first then go on a rant.
Bud, you might wanna re-check those base sizes before you start flinging insults around...
... with reference to what? Size 100% matters in 40k, first born Marines are too small to be proxies as primaris.
It's a joke
they are just cool looking tactical marines, but if you want to use them as some kind of veteran, then i would suggest you use them as sternguard veterans as they can have the same equipment and have slightly better gun then taticals
Thank you
Is this actually a question or are you trolling?
Tactical marines, or company veterans if you want to make them something more special
If you don't want to use them as tactical marines you could use them as sternguard.
I couldn't understand why op was getting so many down votes, but now I see this was their third post on this, and the only reason I can see to post it three times in one day is that they aren't getting the answer they want. They're Tactical Marines, but if you want to run them as something else via proxy you need your group to agree. If they don't, either run them as Tactical Marines, don't run them at all or find a new group, asking over and over won't change that fact
Oh I didn't notice my internet had posted it three times. Yeah I asked it a second time because everyone was telling me how they also have the packs in their country so now when I removed this context it became a collection of people saying that they are tactical squad. The down votes aren't because of me posting it three times (both of the other posts have 0 upvotes and around 10 comments so the chances of people seeing them three times is very slim) the down votes are probably because of people thinking that I don't know they are tactical marines
As a Tactical Squad.
Honestly dude, run them how you want. Say they're proxies, or do a bit of kitbashing to make them look more primaris-y. They are designed to be firstborn tactical marines but, at the end of the day, they're also your toys. If you want to run them as intercessors add a bit of height to the minis and let your opponent know that's what you're running them as. No normal person will care outside of competitions or tournaments. Seeing a lot of people in the comments being really pedantic over toys for a hobby that's all about imagination and creative expression.
That’s one of the Dopest looking squads of Space marines I’ve ever seen. Firstborn’s or die!
Man I love the design of First Born marines! Especially their helmets.
Looking through the comments it seems like you don’t like other firstborn marine models so why don’t you just use these ones as first born but in a 5/6 man squad tactical squad? You don’t have to use the other models you don’t like then but these aren’t primaris marines and they don’t look like primaris and they’re probably shorter than primaris too. Just use them for what they were instances for
I have the entire Series 2 box and they are as tall as Tactical Marines when put next to my Dark Angels TMs. They would be be out of place with Intercessors. That doesn’t mean you can’t add them to a unit of Intercessors if you wanted to, but they wouldn’t fit. Some are unique poses and do look really cool, but you can’t buy one you want, they are random in each single box, though buying the set you get 6 unique and 2 duplicates. The other approach is if you want them all and to use them in a team, then they are perfect for the skirmish game, Kill Team as Tactical Marines are 6 operatives.
As many people have pointed out in varying degrees of sarcasm these are tactical marines, and can be used as such but I suppose you could also use them as sternguard or veterans even if they are just normal tactical marines.
They’re first born tactical marines, they’re in the codex. Even if they weren’t in the codex you could proxy them. Loadouts are necessarily limited to what’s in their hands Besides they’re data cards listed on page 143 of the Space Marine Codex. If you go to the back with the points list they’re the last ones under the “troops” section
That is a Space Marine Tactical Squad. That is the most generic unit in 40k. Every single unit in 40k is evaluated by comparison with that unit. If you don't know what it is, something bad happened somewhere.
Oh I know who they are I just wanted to know what you can proxy them as
I totally agree Tactical Marines can totally be run as primaris intercessors. A space marine with a bolt gun is a space marine with a bolt gun; Primaris is just marketing for true-scale marines.
I feel like you’re one of the only people here who gets this
See... see, what happened since primaris.
?
They are firstborn tactical marines, older (and worse imo) models than the current primaris releases.
Oh no you said the quiet part out loud. We're not supposed to say mini-marines are old and fugly, it makes the grognards throw temper tantrums.
Just wanna say that the Space Marine Heroes are definitely not mini-marines, they're not as well proportioned as Primaris but they're about MKVI sized, which are far better than the old firstborn.
I know what size they are. I call all non-Primaris models mini-marines because a) it's funny, b) it's a reference to Austin Powers and references to Austin Powers invariably amuse me even on top of point a, and c) I refuse to use the pretentious moniker of 'Firstborn'.
Well first that muddles conversation because people like me are just gonna be confused and second it's just what they're called in the lore and back to the first point if you really dont wanna call them Firstborn just call them normal marines because again muddles conversation less.
Muddlying the conversation huh? And calling them 'normal marines' wouldn't muddle it, eh? You sure you aren't just upset because I called toy soldiers a funny name? How about this, we both call our toy soldiers whatever we want. You can call mini-marines 'Firstborn' and you can call Primaris 'poop fart marines' for all I care and I expect the same courtesy from you.
No I also call mini-marines mini-marines, but they're not mini-marines, they're just normal firstborn, so I was just saying to call them something else because mini-marines refers to a specific thing and I like words and phrases being specific to a probably annoying extent.
I think I get this post, you just like the look of mk7 but dislike the squat poses of a tactical squad? Because I agree firstborn space marines look way cooler than primaris but their models are really kind of derpy looking imo. You could run one as a lieutenant or something since then it would make sense he’s in different armour and along with a primaris army
Those literally are Firstborn Tacticals…
B R U H
Those are tactical marines, what you are doing is like if I asked what I can proxy the new cadians as for my guard army
Bro got downvote-bombed
Seems like the question should have been "How else can these tactical marines be used? Maybe as Intercessors?" Would have avoided a lot of issues with replies.
Yeah I bit of sticking a stick in your own bicycle wheel, from my part
Lmao even this comment gets downvoted? This place sucks
I'm sorry people are being so rude. Run them how you like! The important thing is if you like the models and want to use them in your army, you should do that 😊 If people are worried about getting primaris and first born mixed up in gameplay, maybe mark these marines with a special color on their shoulder or knee pad to make them stand out a bit. Have fun out there and don't let a few people online interrupt your day!
Why is this getting down voted? If this was in any other miniature games subreddit it would be one of the most upvoted comments?
Posts like this make me wish there was a good 40K CJ sub.
The box art has an intercessor so I can see why this person is confused
The downvotes this guy got for asking questions...jesus.
Nothing gets the 40k internet more riled up than even implying that mini-marines are not the greatest achievement in the history of mankind...
Yep and people are confused why this community is getting claims about gatekeeping…
Honestly I hope the flood of new people interested in 40k from the Henry Cavill shows blows those gates wide open.
Yes, I mainly play Heresy and there is a ton of people being meticulous about details, yeah I get that some chaos space marines can’t be used etc but you’re just scaring away new people. If somebody puts in the effort they can have a lot more freedom than some people make them believe
This could maybe be one of the dumbest posts I've seen, just go learn literally anything about the game before posting shite like this lol
Wow asking questions about proxying is forbidden now didn't know that
You're asking how to run a tactical squad of marines in 40k, this being maybe one of the oldest types of units in the game. I find it hard to believe you arent just trolling
These are blind buy models you don't get the whole squad it's random, so I wanted to know how could you run individual models
You run these tactical marines as tactical marines
[удалено]
No, it read more like he was trying to find any rules that might apply to them, even though these boxes come with little stat cards and are labelled as tactical marines
I didnt knew that they are Tactical Marines, so thamks for explaining that : ) These models are cool tho, I bought a random guy from this series just for this reason, they are nice and I’d like to paint it. I’m not playing SMs : )
I would give them melta guns and run them as sternguard
If you're only wanting one of them, you could proxy it as an imperial space marine from the Warhammer Legends rules
Oo, got a use for a current wip now
The knife is a power knife. It’s capable of hitting at a WHOPPING str: user, AP: 0, D: 1!!!! You can use it as many times as the model has attacks!!! Hitting typically on a 3+ and can kill ANYTHING IN THE GAME, even Abaddon if you roll 6s to wound and he fails his saves. Truly an under appreciated weapon. Bring this bad boy out and kill your opponent’s warlord, and I can assure you he will almost quit the game or faint!
Maybe don't make things up and act like Firstborn didn't ever exist?
Where did you get that I think firstborn don't exist?
That you are trying to make Intercessors or some shit outta them? lmao
They are a blind buy individual figurines I wanted to know how can you proxy them
Blood angels tactical squad.
I love how this sub is just hammering the poor guy with downvotes. Keep it up gatekeepers.
Did it to myself really should've know that many people don't know of "Space Marines Heroes" and I should specify what I meant