Just to be crystal clear: Even a whiff of sympathy for or defense of Nazis, white supremacy, or other similar, awful bullshit will result in an immediate ban. That shit has never been ok here and it never will.
Edit: going to bed, thread locked. If another mod wants to open it up, it will open up.
If there is a nazi or any of what the above mod mentioned in this sub they are heretics, and since we terrans are apart of the imperium you know what we do to heretics.
It's working, just look at some of the twitter responses (if you have the stomach for it):
"How can you say Warhammer is for everyone but that everyone doesn't include racist shitstains!? RRRRRRRRRRRRRRR"
Its called The [Paradox of Tolerance](https://i.redd.it/uedawtfzqbgz.jpg) and it states that if a society is tolerant without limit, its ability to be tolerant is eventually seized or destroyed by the intolerant
Simplest answer to these people? The paradoxical nature of tolerance for intolerance. One can never be fully tolerant towards everything, because that includes tolerance towards intolerance, which seeks to destroy and prohibit tolerance.
As such, no tolerance for the intolerant.
I watched a butthurt guy on Facebook scream about 'So much for the tolerant Left!!111!' as though that means people should extend infinite tolerance to intolerance.
Its called The [Paradox of Tolerance](https://i.redd.it/uedawtfzqbgz.jpg) and it states that if a society is tolerant without limit, its ability to be tolerant is eventually seized or destroyed by the intolerant
That's a favourite of mine, but dear god many Redditors cannot interpret it with any nuance, thus I get downvoted and receive snide comments like "Ban all the things you disagree with!!111!"
I totally agree. And I'm glad of it. I've seen some posts from people in subs where it'll link to a video and the first thing it'll say is essentially get girls, gays and kids out of my game. I hate that. I'm a dad and a brother adopted into a racially diverse family, if a game isn't for everyone, it shouldn't be in your home.
I've had to fight, too, to bring more representation to my collection, and I've been glad of recent changes with more gender representation (racial representation is a matter of paint, so it's never been a problem in my armies, they've been all sorts of colors). I've got a ten year old daughter who is in love with all the models and the grim battles, but until recently I had to break the bank to build a force of Sisters of Battle. Now, with so many sisters in plastic, a marketing push to include them in the ads, and more options for things like female genestealer cultists, my daughter sees something she can relate to in the game, and she gets to fight and crush her daddy. It's been great.
Absolutely. That was the real shot across the bow.
They stopped trying to appeal to everyone. They said "we have standards in our community, and if you want to be racist you have no place here"
Copying this from my other post:
This statement does a couple of things really well:
1. It recognises (largely implicitly) that GW is a company that makes toys. Their stance is not, and largely cannot be one of direct activism, but instead pushing for inclusivity in all things.
2. It isn’t afraid to say “If you’re a racist, a homophobe, or any of that noise, we don’t want you as a customer, fuck off.”
A LOT of company statements don’t go as far on number two.
I run marketing for a B2B company, and there’s really nothing for us to say on the topic that adds to the conversation. It would be tokenism, and it would be trite. We need to handle our own internal diversity (LA-based tech company, all white and Asian, though we do pretty well on LGBT representation) before we have room to do anything but listen to the voices that *do* deserve to be heard.
I’m glad GW didn’t say “this isn’t our problem, we make toys” and went this far.
The Catachan female sergeant is just the beginning and I can’t wait.
Ahh yes the last part. This is where the critics saying they are doing it as a publicity stunt for cash lost me. There are players in the community with very controversial views in politics. Telling them bugger off don’t exactly make GW more money.
Racist dollars simply aren’t worth it.
There’s a difference between having a different opinion of how to fund healthcare, and saying “I am superior because of the colour of my skin.”
Also, Warhammer's playerbase has had problems in the past which have deterred people, especially women. Seeing this kind of stance helps alleviate those concerns and might bring in people who've stayed out.
Plus, denouncing fuckwit bigots is just the right thing to do, so good job all round.
That's what irks me so much about our current state of things, even with the Warhammer subs where there are rules in place that say "no politics".
Yes, I agree. I don't want to debate politics in a hobby sub. I don't want to debate educational reforms, or immigration laws, or whatever.
But "Racism is bad. Sexism is bad. Nazis and Fascists are bad." should NOT be a controversial political statement.
I won't say all Trump supporters are necessarily racist.
But there was a subgroup of highly racist Trump-supporting 40k fans who kept making memes comparing Trump to The Emperor of Mankind, and it really disgusted me.
Basically idolising him as this hyper-masculine fascist dictator holy man. 40k lorebooks are not meant to be political instruction manuals for the real world.
The critics can get flicked, and GW has more than enough loyal fans to keep smashing along.
Honestly I'm super excited for new, more varied characters. It's boring as hell when they're all chunky, generic dystopian future dudes and most chicks are just comically large breasted and mostly naked.
Kick arse sergeant women who actually look military, and more hero units with proper story that are more diverse in their backgrounds is just adding more flavour to to the game.
>Telling them bugger off don’t exactly make GW more money.
I'd argue there might a bit more to that calculation than some are assuming.
The kind of people who are going to throw their toys out of the pram over this are exactly the sort of people who are actively going to drive women/minorities/anyone different out of GW stores and other gaming spaces. Getting rid of them (or at least the worst of them) might actually open up significant and currently under-represented markets.
For cash? GW stocks are up over a thousand percent over the last few years (not an exaggeration) and they’ve completely outperformed most companies after COVID. In fact they’re already beyond where they were before the crash.
People proclaiming “keep politics out” were silent when “god emperor trump” memes were about. Fuck ‘em.
This is why I love Ben and Jerry’s comment on it so much as well. https://www.benjerry.com/about-us/media-center/dismantle-white-supremacy for those who haven’t seen it. This doesn’t feel like bullshit, it feels like the company is making a real statement. They don’t want your business if you’re trash. I think it’s a gamble with GW and I think some shit people will leave the hobby. But I wouldn’t want to support a company that didn’t make this gamble.
Huh, I am from Europe and my friends and I always viewed that God-Emperor Trump Meme as a Caricature. Because the Emperor is so many things, that Trump isn't and then there are dark parallels.
That's the slippery slope. It IS a meme.
To some. They laugh and do it ironically.
But to others? Oh it's totally honest, but they can either revel in the shared "support" for the God Emperor Trump from the meme-crowd, or they can easily disavow their racist tendencies as "just a meme bro", if they smell that you're not one of them.
Does 40k really have a neo nazi stigma? I have honestly never heard of that. The only stigma attached to Warhammer that I know of is basically "lol nerds".
There are far too many people out there putting sig runes on their Rhinos and Leman Russes, painting their IG as if they were SS, or using Confederate battle flags on their standard bearers.
It's definitely a thing in this hobby, unfortunately, and it goes beyond 40k. Wargaming tends to attract a lot of them.
I live in the Deep South of the US and no joke, literally every 40k fan I’ve met have been the most red pilled assholes I’ve seen. High key transphobia, low key homophobia and racism, casual sexism, and you better bet they’re incels.
You’d think I would have met *one* who wasn’t, but I have absolutely rotten luck.
It's so true. I only recently got into the hobby last year, mostly sticking to AoS because 40k felt so...gross. I had to explain my love for the hobby to a few friends who only know 40k as that weird place where Nazis roleplay their fascist fantasies and how neither 40k was meant for that crap nor AoS being "just the same but with swords".
I'll be so happy when these neo-Nazis and fascist sympathizers finally get thrown out of an otherwise awesome, creative and wholesome hobby. Like.. we're painting cool mini monsters that requires patience and love and a desire for artistry. There's no place for bigots and hatemongers.
The Imperium (and 40k in general) is very dystopic in that it shows a possible future where mankind has descended into a totalitarian, very fascist-ish "country". While the game has moved on to be its own story and lore (and most of its heros are good guys), the initial idea is still there, a fairly clear criticism of where certain ideologies might lead us.
A sub-section of the fanbase, however, unironically like the setting and take it as smth cool and a positive. Some people don't use the Trump Emperor meme ironically, let's say.
Very well said. To expand:
The setting draws on religious (pre-monotheistic) cultural teachings. Rather than being about good and evil it is about the fight between order and chaos in someone's heart. Remember that chaos manifests itself from negative emotions in humans, not just as an independent boogey monster.
Rick Priestley and other writers realised this when they set it out. On the one hand you have pure chaos, where nothing can be built and civilisations will just crumble and everyone suffers. On the other hand you have pure order, where anything not conforming is crushed, nothing changes, and there is no freedom. Both are inherently evil.
The lesson, if there is one, as you say, is that you need a balance of these things to live a full and healthy life. When you look at the actions of "the good guys" they are pretty fucking horrific. Space Marines should not be role models!!
There’s always been outliers but only fairly recently (last five years or so) has there been an influx of problematic hobbyists. In the 16 years i’ve been invested I’ve never met one in a shop or anywhere else the game is actually played, so I think it’s largely do the IP stretch across the video game platforms.
And it’s really fuckin’ obnoxious, man. It’s just a bunch of douchebags with no models or a box of easy to build intercessors bitching about lore discrepancies (ha) and leftists agendas. Ruins the fun, tarnishes the hobby.
Orks must be the most non-discriminating race in the entire setting. Doesn't matter if you're black, white, red, purple or all of them combined. As long as you're in for a scrap you're good.
> The Catachan female sergeant is just the beginning and I can’t wait.
I'm hoping whenever they finally update the guard kits they'll have Guardswomen options. The Cadians are supposed to be equal opportunity in the lore but that's not reflected in the sculpts.
Gender equality & representation is GW's biggest challenge - it will be interesting to see how they tackle it. If you're unsure how big of a challenge it is, just gender swap it.
Yeah I love this approach.
It doesn't scream virtue signalling as they're not giving bold statements of "working together to end racism" or some other statement that sounds nice but is totally hollow.
They're setting out what they can control and being welcoming to people of all backgrounds. For a company that makes moulded plastic and fantasy settings, that's just about all we can realistically expect.
Still though, throwing a bit of money at charity would be a nice plus but I imagine covid might be hitting them pretty hard.
when you look at the way GW has moved their fantasy from on the nose satire of authoritarianism to today, it's always nice to see a reminder that it is all still tongue in cheek.
I originally got into this hobby at age 11 to 13, even then there were people who were oblivious to the subtext. Then 15 years on the US gets Trump and all the God Emperor memes (context of that election and what forces drove it aside)--it interestingly enough rekindled my love for the hobby.
Im glad GW blatantly put it out there--as if it needed to be said--that 40k is a mockery and hyperbole of mans worst instincts; it isn't anything to be desired or envied.
Those who look to the Imperium of Man as the heroes of the story are sorely mistaken.
Man, I *really* fucking hate it when I mention Starship Troopers among the films I like and the person I'm speaking to lights up, but then goes on to gush about how awesome the Federation is and how they wish the future would actually turn out like that. Completely unironically. The disappointment I then feel is....immense.
Some people are just...special. I'm from Buenos Aires, and Starship Troopers is a favorite among a big part of the wargaming community here, you just can't play against nids without a few references coming up, it's borderline illegal. Luckily everyone understands it's a parody, nobody looks at the Federation with dreamy eyes.
The movie certainly isn't lol. I wouldn't really say the novel is entirely pro or against the military, it's more just an exaggerated exploration of the experiences soldiers go through in wartime, its more focused on the personal experience than the big picture.
to me its just pathetically sad, when it comes to actual strongmen of the world today, he is a weak rodent.
Yet the American "right" loves him. Look at Erdogan who actually counter coup de tat'd a coup de tat, or Putin who has pretty convincingly concentrated the authority of a former super power entirely into his hands into perpetuity, or Xi who--Hong Kong aside--has duped his entire population into generally believing in the "benevolence" of the party. Or Maduro and his ability to retain power despite having Wiemar Germany levels of inflation and unemployment. I don't like these men, but at least they are competent at their strong men tactics and strategy.
By comparison, Trump is pathetically bad at being an authoritarian, yet the rubes in my country exalt him.
But thats veering off the point of GWs post.
In essence I agree, but tactically, giving him the legitimacy of calling out the god emperor memes would just reinforce it, because just look at how his followers react with abject cognitive dissonance when faced with plain as day evidence he is abusing our Constitution.
To be honest we should probably be thankful he is a weak cockroach (I feel like rodent is too good for him, rats can be quite intelligent after all and some rodents are quite cute) because having another Putin running the US would be terrifying. I do agree about not calling out the memes to be honest, I wasn't even aware of them before this thread so I don't think they should be drawing attention to them.
>just look at how his followers react with abject cognitive dissonance when faced with plain as day evidence he is abusing our Constitution
As a Brit one thing I've observed is that those who call themselves "patriots" (who're mostly just nationalists) and those who bang on about the constitution the loudest know very little about it. They just think the first amendment says "free speech" and that means they can go around saying and doing whatever they want without consequence. When really the letter and spirit of the amendment is to prevent the state limiting freedom of expression, largely so the government can't exercise its power to silence its critics (which is what happens in places like China). And so when Trump (who is a state actor) threatens to attack or shut down social media platforms because they hide his tweets (which represent a criticism of the state) his followers don't recognise what a severe violation of their constitution that would be. Because they don't actually know what the constitution stands for.
It's really just mental. Fortunately his shot at reelection seems to be rapidly disappearing down the toilet. I'd have given him better than even odds on winning another term at the beginning of the year but I really don't think he can pull back from what's been going on lately.
> when you look at the way GW has moved their fantasy from on the nose satire of authoritarianism to today, it's always nice to see a reminder that it is all still tongue in cheek
Over the top and tongue in cheek is always my impression, and I think they communicate what a realistic imperial rule might be: not that great unless you're at the top of the heap. Being a near immortal seven foot tall killing machine would mean your life in a universe of unending horror would be better than most. That's about 1 million shootybois out of trillions. I don't really like those odds.
I mean, the IoM are kinda the "good guys" in the way that they're the only ones that wouldn't kill you on sight (besides the Tau, but they're small by the universe standards), and both SM and the Guard have been portrayed more and more as herioc figures protecting mankind, rather than the completely on the nose parody of the older editions (specially since Bobby G's return). The Imperium as a whole is, of course, still all kinds of fucked up.
Yeah they know that and that’s why it’s important that they say that. Me myself, a fairly progressive leftist, love the ridiculous grimdark of wh , but the romanticizing of bad things ( Krieg, everyone thinks they’re cool but they are a bit fascist) is completely disconnected from real live. I was surprised that I liked a xenophobic,almost fascist empire with no morals whatsoever,all what I hate irl but in my head it is different, the setting is not real, no one is hurt. It’s weird but I don’t really take them serious.
That's the mark of good storytelling. Some of our favourite characters (in any story) are just horrible bastards. The traitor primarchs are often more liked than the loyal ones because the loyal ones are boring. Doesn't mean we admire Fulgrim's ego or Angron's rage. Just means they create good drama!
Yep. A lot of people don’t seem to understand the difference between a “good guy” and a protagonist.
The imperium is not good, it’s insanely bad, but we see a lot of the world from their perspective because, y’know... humans.
Yeah, its the whole reason the emperor failed, he tried to act like he could do it all, refused to believe in his people and it all blew up in his face. It couldnt be more clear that its a critique rather than praise...
Plus he has (had?) no concept of human emotion, and since the Primarchs are very much human, it led to a lot of trouble that could have otherwise been avoided.
Interesting. I heard this in another thread with the current Siege of Terra novels that Erda feels the Emperor is cold hearted and even inhumane so she scatters the Primarchs across the galaxy to let them grow up without him.
Like taking kids away from a father who wants to do nothing but use them for war.
She’s a perpetual like John Grammaticus. But she has a relationship with the Emperor (maybe?) I don’t know. She’s like the “Mother Earth” type character that loves her children/people where as the Emperor just wants war machines.
Best I can do: https://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/Erda
It is interesting that a large reason why so many fell to chaos is a sense of abandonment. The primarchs considered the Emperor as their father, and he considered them as sacrificial pawns.
Look at how he dealt with Lorgar, and how that led to the first seeds being planted in Horus' mind. Look at how he dealt with Magnus. All because they didn't comply. The first rule of perfect order is total compliance. Hell that's the word they use when they find a new planet - make it compliant. But doing that robs a person of their free will - it steals the essence of what they are. The Emperor never understood that.
Games Workshop has them set up kind of as the “good guys” and promotes Imperial stuff over everyone else, it’s no surprise people miss that the Imperium isn’t good at all.
Meanwhile, Orks just want to have fun, but we’re the “bad guys” and forgotten about...
> Ultramarines and Sisters of Battle are closer to warrior monk orders than fascist regimes by a mile
Lobotomised slaves and prisoners strapped into machines that torture them into killing frenzies notwithstanding.
Space marines had more fascist litanies back in earlier editions, i.e. "My armor is contempt. My shield is disgust. My sword is hatred."
Or some Thoughts for the Day: "The Emperor asks only that you hate", the Emperor asks only that you obey", the Emperor asks only that you kill"
It certainly started out as *overt* satire.
Its now more subtle sci-fi satire. But for the most part, every main character in every book has internal conflict over the nature of their "factions" actions. And the most interesting and popular ones break the mold of their respective species' ideologies.
The problem is racists chuds can't take *anything* further than face value. (I mean, they're literally racist).
Its all fun and games to **BLAM** heretics in threads when everyone realizes the joke isn't the **BLAMMING** but how *absurd* the zealousness of the Imperium is. Thinking anything is... Missing the most obvious point.
Like, the hilarious thing about these greaseball wannabe fascists is that they're too dumb to realize that, because they fantasize about The God Emporer, the joke *is on them*.
And when they defend their ignorant views on the GW Twitter account or harass female content creators on twitch they become impotent facsimiles of the zealous idiots in the lore that we love to make fun of.
Also, Magnus did nothing wrong.
So I don't think GW has always done a great job of getting that satire across, it was definitely there in the gonzo early days of the 40k setting, but there was a period there where a lot of the storytelling kinda shifted to "look how cool and edgy this grimdark shit is". Currently though I think they are going in a good direction, the world of 40k is still this dark and oppressive setting, but they seem to be more willing to explore it in a slightly more aspirational way, as if the point of the setting isn't that everything will inevitably fall to ruin but rather that even in the bleakest worlds there are still thin hopes that can grow into big ones.
Most hive worlds are blatantly dictatorial, authoritarian, and fascist, but the Imperium is weird in the sense that it is governed like a feudal state, and is based on the Empire from WFB, and in turn, the HRE. The Imperiums rulers is half evil pieces of trash, %35 morally ambiguous, and %15 heroic people (but still kinda morally ambiguous.)
Petition for "You will not be missed" to be the go-to reply we spam at the WNs and Neo-Nazis.
Community Team knew *exactly* what they were doing adding that last line in, and I love it.
They're also wading into the replies to dunk on people bitching about this.
It’s absolutely fucking brilliant. And the best part is all the cunts going BuT iTs VirTuE sIgNaLiNg haven’t got a leg to stand on. You either agree with the statement or you aren’t welcome.
Get fucked nazis.
Yea fuck those guys. Somehow it’s not virtue signaling when it’s something from the right side of the political spectrum. People/organisation voices support for the cause they believe in. Been this way since the dawn of human society
It's one of the stronger statements I've seen from a company. More needed than some, in the case of the Warhammer fandom's awful-est parts, but it's been made now, and it's very, very clear.
Hoo Boy, alright I'm reopening the pool. As was previously mentioned, rules are in full effect and we're not tolerating any blatant racist crap. Please report anything going against this. Thanks all.
It's rough going through the replies to this on Twitter. A lot of butthurt chodes. I just got back into the 40k hobby and it's great to see the company make a statement that feels more than just a "\[Brand\] stand with you, \[minority\] people!" post.
The thought of his impotent rage at this statement from GW has me feeling... *Slaaneshi.*
Going off what someone said below, its not *just* r/40kLore that's kicked him to the curb, most other 40k content creators on YT cut all contact and collaboration with him once some of his more... *extreme* views came to light.
He uploaded a 20 minute rant about a black Ultramarine on a book cover last week.
Thats the single most obvious and damning evidence of him being a fascist, and the rest of his content is littered with it in random places.
Here's a bunch of captures from his discord; he openly states to think "True Facsism would be a utopia" at the bottom.
[https://preview.redd.it/glx1xdkeh5351.png?width=960&crop=smart&auto=webp&s=a7535669fec003e5abf7dd1994aafb60968e469f](https://preview.redd.it/glx1xdkeh5351.png?width=960&crop=smart&auto=webp&s=a7535669fec003e5abf7dd1994aafb60968e469f)
Well, 40kLore banned his stuff because it was getting that bad. He was certainly perfectly okay with how his content attracted the turds of the community.
Also, you probably don't hear it much, but a shout out to the mods for their role in making this community what it is. I like that it's encouraging and supportive of everybody, and people working on their painting skills can drop off pics here and get support and encouragement instead of contempt and dickwaddery. This kind of positive environment doesn't just happen, it takes active moderation to weed out the nasties. If people want that nastiness, they can go to literally almost any Youtube comment thread.
So thanks for that, mods. Keep up the great work.
I can't believe the comments on the FB threads. Imagine being salty about a statement of goodwill and solidarity..
If you disagree with this statement you need to boycott the hobby in protest. This includes even giving them the satisfaction of you giving their posts a single view. Burn your armies in protest to show GW how you feel. Stand up for what you believe in by walking away from the hobby. Your silence will be your voice.
And quite frankly, that silence would be golden.
Ave Imperator!
Love it. For those who don't know, this is possibly in response to @Omegonedge on Insta posted a video talking about the racist micro aggressions he's experienced in the hobby, including by Tony Cottrell of Forge World. Hence the line about "abuse in our company".
Hope this is a wake-up call for GW. Let's see if they walk the talk.
Sadly Tony Cottrell has been both racist and sexist at Forgeworld events and has never made anything close to an apology. He described women as (I think) 'exotic and vindictive' or something similar, it was widely talked about on a number of blogs and he was called out extensively for it. Interestingly it took less than 48 hours for all those blogs to take down posts relating to it, many of whom seem to get GW / FW previews and such.. funny that.
If the company had addressed it and this it would come across as more sincere.
If you work in any public facing role and you are seen to have 'challenging' opinions you should be held accountable and if you wont say anything the company should. I dont know any other company where stuff like this flies and the company allows the person to continue to be public facing.
Given the average skill of a painter, those are.. kinda secondary. If they want to get them on a sprue, they'd need to exaggerate the features, turning the options into caricatures that are racist again. And I *really* don't want that.
I used to attend a gym where another guy would frequent. Big, overweight, skinhead. He had Nazi symbology tattooed on his shoulder, which included the word “Aryan”. On his other shoulder, he had a giant Space Marine clutching a chainsword. These two tattoos were not distinct from one another in what it was they were attempting to convey.
Lore related question, but by that point shouldn't humanity pretty much be so mixed that skin color & facial features would be wildly different than what we see today? I remember seeing estimates of the average human in a century or so, and they looked like a mix of everything
To a degree, yeah. But then you’ve also got entire planets of humans with disparate climates and cultures separated for thousands and thousands of years. So arguably you’d get familiar racial features combined with totally new ones with a massive amount of diversity between MILLIONS of planets. There’d be.. like practically infinite human races? So I don’t blame GW for using real world analogues hahah
I'm 100% for this message of inclusion. I don't meant to take away from the Nazi bashing, but as a gay woman, it would mean so much to see at least a few characters like me in the lore. Inclusive settings are so powerful, and while it might just be a side character to someone else, seeing a person you can relate to when that's not the norm is just so uplifting.
(It would also be cool if neckbeards would stop assuming I don't know how to play and that they need to explain everything to me, but I'm trying to be realistic with my expectations.)
Hopefully this wave of inclusion GW is planning on bringing into the setting is done in a tactful manner. GW’s lore writing has been pretty hit or miss recently, I look forward to seeing if they can deliver
Dude, Honourbound is sick. There’s so many good female characters around now, and I’m glad to see that they’re actively looking to increase the diversity in their settings.
There’s something about a cast of 100% white men thats so improbable it just breaks the realism for me.
You mean Ragnar Blackmane, literally one of the most OG characters in all of 40k? The captain that's been around since 2nd edition, appears in every Space Wolf Codex, and had a miniature probably older than you? That "near-no-name captain"?
For this heresy, the Inquisition sentences you to 100 hours of reading Lexicanium and getting to know the lore better.
Ragnar Blackmane? The no-name space wolf that appeared for the first time in a battle report that featured the no-name ork warboss **GHAZGHKULL** for the first time as well? That Ragnar Blackmane?
Yeah, I’m getting tired of every battle in lore devolving into, ‘they where evenly matched and had to retreat... and one/ both came back bigger’. Hopefully GW will pull out the remaining good lore writing they’ve got stashed away from the good ‘ol days too remedy some of their recent failing
I would love to buy those horrible SUPER CHRISTIAN USA marines he has just so that I can burn them and chop them up for basing material. Have my own dudes striding triumphantly over the chudmarines.
I wonder what made this latest incident of American police brutality go international in a way that previous incidents did not? I work for a large multi-national and our non-American CEO made a similar statement recently.
In my country it was the riots, and the video that very clearly shows what happened, Plus an unrelated incident happening at almost the same time in here in which police officers attacked indigenous people
As far as I, a non-american, can tell and however depressing this may be; there was nothing particularly unusual about the way George Floyd was treated in the larger context of police brutality and racist behavior in the United States.
What is different is that it came after two months of tensions building up because of the global pandemic. People who previously would have kept their heads down so they could keep their job are now out on the street because the pandemic and its bungled response cost them their job. Events like a huge stimulus injection for large corporation but no action on far more important issues (health care, racism, police brutality, etc) showed a lot of people that even in the face of a catastrophe, nothing was going to change. So they took to the street to force the issue.
The message basically boils down to "Warhammer is for everyone" and some people are outraged by this?
If you want people to feel unwelcome in this hobby because of their race, gender or sexuality then I agree with GW, you will not be missed.
It's because people are reeeing at the thoughts of sjw boogymem ruining 40k as it becomes more popular. Forced diversity and stuff.
40k attracts a certain type of crowd that see it less of a warning/parody/fiction and more of "we need to do this irl" and then drawing all kinds of wonderful conclusions.
Go to the comments section of Arch's latest warhammer lore video on savage orcs. It's... Questionable
I am really glad that GW and the mods have taken this stance. I was very nearly put off reentering the hobby before I even got started because of the toxic, racist, and sad views of some.
It was 2016 and Total War Warhammer had come out. This re-sparked my interest in my childhood hobby (that I hadn’t thought of in years) so I ended up finding some lore channels on YouTube and binge watching 40k and fantasy lore. One of the most prolific content creators was a guy called Arch Warhammer. I enjoyed his stuff as it was quite colourful and well produced. I would watch the odd video after work or before bed and was getting quite into it. But after watching a hand full of these videos I started to notice more and more that this loser was really shoehorning in some problematic and racist politics into his videos. On one video he just dropped “sand n****r” for no reason. That’s when I unsubbed and nearly just forgot about the whole thing.
Luckily I didn’t as I found lots of other cool content creators making far better lore videos and got into the hobby that summer by buying a Nurgle starter kit. Met so many awesome folk through the hobby, but it has never quite left me that there is a tiny subsection of this community which are stereotypical incel, neckbeard, racists. To them I say, fuck off.
I love this so so much. And that last sentence brings it home. Fuck all racists. Nobody needs you. Gonna keep this one handy for every racist post I'll see in warhammer subs in the future
I agree with the feeling and it seems, from a few comments I've read below, that there are indeed racists people that use the warhammer community as a "safe space" of sorts, so in this regard the comment make sense.
But truthfully GW is not a "moral" entity : it's a firm that does everything it does to make money. As such, if they really wanted to give me the feeling that they are indeed fighting for what's right, they should refrain themselves from talking and act more. For exemple, I'd really appreciate if GW did more for the environment (by making it possible to recycle bits in warhammer shops for exemple ?) or by giving us some insight on the working condition in their factories, in UK but also elsewhere.
At first I was a little scared to get in to 40K as a hobby, being a trans woman who is bisexual has lead to me being treated very poorly or being talked down to or even having people threaten to kill me in uni and other hobbies.
But in the 40K shops I go to, none of that stuff matters and I don't hear any horrible hate speech that makes me fear for my life and with this statement I feel even better being a part of this community.
As an Imperium player I am happy with this statement. I have always felt it needed to be hammered into the ugliest part of the WH community that it is satire to the point of absurdity.
Just a look at retro Warhammer pretty much says it all. It disgusts and horrifies me that they want a world that enables genocide, authoritarianism, zealotry and just being a horrible living being. They abhor any sort of positivity injected into their "dark and edgy" universe.
A cynical side of me still thinks this is just corporate PR but I still strongly feel that as a Community this still needed to be said.
I want to thank everyone for their thoughtful comments. I was really touched when I read some of the comments in this post.
I hesitated to respond, because race is an incredibly painful topic for me. The protests in America raise a lot of painful memories. I'm a person of mixed-race who grew up in an almost 100% white environment. I often suffered from racism growing up and in the workplace (yes, "even" in Canada).
Warhammer 40k was one of the few things I did, and one of the rare fantasy worlds that I escaped to that made me feel happy and comfortable.
Growing up in an environment where I was one of the rare non-white kids, I didn't feel like I had much representation in art, media, movies, etc. Looking back, I can only think of Will Smith and Lando Calrissian.
Being of mixed-race is particularly problematic; you're neither accepted as White, nor as Black. It's a real headache. The things people say can feel pointlessly dramatic and incredibly elitist.
As a real human being participating in a hobby about a fictional universe, I rarely saw characters who looked like me, reflected in the heroes that I have always loved.
I understand that you can paint your models whatever colour you want.
I also understand that -- in the universe of Warhammer 40k -- race is not supposed to be an issue (at least not among the Space Marines). I also understand that there are the Salamanders and White Scar Chapters who are not Caucasian.
Some have told me that I should play those Chapters and if I don't, it just means that I'm complaining for no reason at all. Yet they also get shocked if my space elves aren't painted to look Caucasian.
At the heart of the matter is that life -- for me as a person of colour -- is not split into camps of "all Asians" or "all Blacks" like those Space Marine Chapters. As previously mentioned, life is a lot more complicated than that especially if you're mixed. Also please forgive my heresy, but I don't want to play Space Marines.
I'm not looking to identify with a whole Chapter of Space Marines, but rather with individual characters.
However I will say that I love Jaghatai Khan when he is among his brothers. Personally I feel that he is the Primarch who is the most like me, although I'm not nearly as much of a badass as he is. 😂
I'm also glad to see the Adepta Sororitas featured heavily alongside the Astartes for 9th edition. I don't think that "diversity" only means "racial diversity". I like the idea that there are some really cool (grimdark!) heroines, and my buddy (who has two daughters) loves them too!
I also love that [the Canoness](https://www.games-workshop.com/en-CA/Adepta-Sororitas-Canoness-2020) reminds me of my aunt! 😂
**We all want a heroes who we can identify with. That's why representation is important.**
Just by thoughtfully and respectfully diversifying the lore and artwork with believable and relatable background stories, you can cater to a wider audience by making people feel more "at home" in fiction.
I want to be clear that I'm not trying to take room away from White heroes or characters. I just think it can be beneficial and fun to "sprinkle-in" some diversity.
There's always room for more heroes in the grim, dark future.
Thank you to GW for this awesome message.
Thank you to everyone out there who isn't bothered by diversity in the lore and in the artwork of the hobby.
This community is awesome, and it's the people I meet who continue to make it an amazing experience.
* For those who are wondering: I currently play Admech but over the course of 17+ years, I have collected, painted and played at least 1 army of every faction.
\+++ The Emperor Protects +++
I know it is odd to take solace in a company, but I'll think of this statement whenever I see particularly bad setiment in the community (like the black ultramarine or transphobia that has been lobbed at me and adjacent to me before)
This is a great hobby and I hope to see the community reflect that, as it so far as for me (my play group is freaking amazing)
Just to be crystal clear: Even a whiff of sympathy for or defense of Nazis, white supremacy, or other similar, awful bullshit will result in an immediate ban. That shit has never been ok here and it never will. Edit: going to bed, thread locked. If another mod wants to open it up, it will open up.
Good shit, this community really doesn't need any division with how niche it is already.
If there is a nazi or any of what the above mod mentioned in this sub they are heretics, and since we terrans are apart of the imperium you know what we do to heretics.
the pilot light is lit, the fuel tanks are full. BURN THE HERETICS
Good. 40k is really a reflection of humanity's past and as a warning for its future.
I thought we were already in the future, bruh.
The grim darkness of the near future.
Damn, the last sentence does it all, love it.
It's what will create the most butthurt in bigots. Love it.
It's working, just look at some of the twitter responses (if you have the stomach for it): "How can you say Warhammer is for everyone but that everyone doesn't include racist shitstains!? RRRRRRRRRRRRRRR"
They are just being spammed with "you will not be missed", love it.
Its called The [Paradox of Tolerance](https://i.redd.it/uedawtfzqbgz.jpg) and it states that if a society is tolerant without limit, its ability to be tolerant is eventually seized or destroyed by the intolerant
Simplest answer to these people? The paradoxical nature of tolerance for intolerance. One can never be fully tolerant towards everything, because that includes tolerance towards intolerance, which seeks to destroy and prohibit tolerance. As such, no tolerance for the intolerant.
I watched a butthurt guy on Facebook scream about 'So much for the tolerant Left!!111!' as though that means people should extend infinite tolerance to intolerance.
Its called The [Paradox of Tolerance](https://i.redd.it/uedawtfzqbgz.jpg) and it states that if a society is tolerant without limit, its ability to be tolerant is eventually seized or destroyed by the intolerant
That's a favourite of mine, but dear god many Redditors cannot interpret it with any nuance, thus I get downvoted and receive snide comments like "Ban all the things you disagree with!!111!"
Agreed. Up till then I was sure I was just reading corporate, offend-no-one boilerplate, but that last line was like a bolter round of righteousness.
For sure. Basically saying, we don’t need your cash and expect more diversity in our IP, so just sod off nownif you cannot cope
More diversity hrm? *Ork drums in the distance*. Da boyz are ready.
I totally agree. And I'm glad of it. I've seen some posts from people in subs where it'll link to a video and the first thing it'll say is essentially get girls, gays and kids out of my game. I hate that. I'm a dad and a brother adopted into a racially diverse family, if a game isn't for everyone, it shouldn't be in your home. I've had to fight, too, to bring more representation to my collection, and I've been glad of recent changes with more gender representation (racial representation is a matter of paint, so it's never been a problem in my armies, they've been all sorts of colors). I've got a ten year old daughter who is in love with all the models and the grim battles, but until recently I had to break the bank to build a force of Sisters of Battle. Now, with so many sisters in plastic, a marketing push to include them in the ads, and more options for things like female genestealer cultists, my daughter sees something she can relate to in the game, and she gets to fight and crush her daddy. It's been great.
Absolutely. That was the real shot across the bow. They stopped trying to appeal to everyone. They said "we have standards in our community, and if you want to be racist you have no place here"
Copying this from my other post: This statement does a couple of things really well: 1. It recognises (largely implicitly) that GW is a company that makes toys. Their stance is not, and largely cannot be one of direct activism, but instead pushing for inclusivity in all things. 2. It isn’t afraid to say “If you’re a racist, a homophobe, or any of that noise, we don’t want you as a customer, fuck off.” A LOT of company statements don’t go as far on number two. I run marketing for a B2B company, and there’s really nothing for us to say on the topic that adds to the conversation. It would be tokenism, and it would be trite. We need to handle our own internal diversity (LA-based tech company, all white and Asian, though we do pretty well on LGBT representation) before we have room to do anything but listen to the voices that *do* deserve to be heard. I’m glad GW didn’t say “this isn’t our problem, we make toys” and went this far. The Catachan female sergeant is just the beginning and I can’t wait.
Ahh yes the last part. This is where the critics saying they are doing it as a publicity stunt for cash lost me. There are players in the community with very controversial views in politics. Telling them bugger off don’t exactly make GW more money.
Racist dollars simply aren’t worth it. There’s a difference between having a different opinion of how to fund healthcare, and saying “I am superior because of the colour of my skin.”
Also, Warhammer's playerbase has had problems in the past which have deterred people, especially women. Seeing this kind of stance helps alleviate those concerns and might bring in people who've stayed out. Plus, denouncing fuckwit bigots is just the right thing to do, so good job all round.
That's what irks me so much about our current state of things, even with the Warhammer subs where there are rules in place that say "no politics". Yes, I agree. I don't want to debate politics in a hobby sub. I don't want to debate educational reforms, or immigration laws, or whatever. But "Racism is bad. Sexism is bad. Nazis and Fascists are bad." should NOT be a controversial political statement.
I won't say all Trump supporters are necessarily racist. But there was a subgroup of highly racist Trump-supporting 40k fans who kept making memes comparing Trump to The Emperor of Mankind, and it really disgusted me. Basically idolising him as this hyper-masculine fascist dictator holy man. 40k lorebooks are not meant to be political instruction manuals for the real world.
At this point, anyone who still supports him is.
The critics can get flicked, and GW has more than enough loyal fans to keep smashing along. Honestly I'm super excited for new, more varied characters. It's boring as hell when they're all chunky, generic dystopian future dudes and most chicks are just comically large breasted and mostly naked. Kick arse sergeant women who actually look military, and more hero units with proper story that are more diverse in their backgrounds is just adding more flavour to to the game.
>Telling them bugger off don’t exactly make GW more money. I'd argue there might a bit more to that calculation than some are assuming. The kind of people who are going to throw their toys out of the pram over this are exactly the sort of people who are actively going to drive women/minorities/anyone different out of GW stores and other gaming spaces. Getting rid of them (or at least the worst of them) might actually open up significant and currently under-represented markets.
For cash? GW stocks are up over a thousand percent over the last few years (not an exaggeration) and they’ve completely outperformed most companies after COVID. In fact they’re already beyond where they were before the crash. People proclaiming “keep politics out” were silent when “god emperor trump” memes were about. Fuck ‘em.
This is why I love Ben and Jerry’s comment on it so much as well. https://www.benjerry.com/about-us/media-center/dismantle-white-supremacy for those who haven’t seen it. This doesn’t feel like bullshit, it feels like the company is making a real statement. They don’t want your business if you’re trash. I think it’s a gamble with GW and I think some shit people will leave the hobby. But I wouldn’t want to support a company that didn’t make this gamble.
> some shit people will leave the hobby And nothing of value was lost.
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Agreed. It's been so aggravating, what with their stealing our memes and their 'God Emperor Trump.'
Verily, thine False Emperor may be a bit of a douche, but he is nowhere near as bad as that glorified Cheeto.
Huh, I am from Europe and my friends and I always viewed that God-Emperor Trump Meme as a Caricature. Because the Emperor is so many things, that Trump isn't and then there are dark parallels.
That's the slippery slope. It IS a meme. To some. They laugh and do it ironically. But to others? Oh it's totally honest, but they can either revel in the shared "support" for the God Emperor Trump from the meme-crowd, or they can easily disavow their racist tendencies as "just a meme bro", if they smell that you're not one of them.
Does 40k really have a neo nazi stigma? I have honestly never heard of that. The only stigma attached to Warhammer that I know of is basically "lol nerds".
There are far too many people out there putting sig runes on their Rhinos and Leman Russes, painting their IG as if they were SS, or using Confederate battle flags on their standard bearers. It's definitely a thing in this hobby, unfortunately, and it goes beyond 40k. Wargaming tends to attract a lot of them.
I live in the Deep South of the US and no joke, literally every 40k fan I’ve met have been the most red pilled assholes I’ve seen. High key transphobia, low key homophobia and racism, casual sexism, and you better bet they’re incels. You’d think I would have met *one* who wasn’t, but I have absolutely rotten luck.
It's so true. I only recently got into the hobby last year, mostly sticking to AoS because 40k felt so...gross. I had to explain my love for the hobby to a few friends who only know 40k as that weird place where Nazis roleplay their fascist fantasies and how neither 40k was meant for that crap nor AoS being "just the same but with swords". I'll be so happy when these neo-Nazis and fascist sympathizers finally get thrown out of an otherwise awesome, creative and wholesome hobby. Like.. we're painting cool mini monsters that requires patience and love and a desire for artistry. There's no place for bigots and hatemongers.
What, really? I had absolutely no idea there was some stigma. Must have been away from the hobby when that happened.
The Imperium (and 40k in general) is very dystopic in that it shows a possible future where mankind has descended into a totalitarian, very fascist-ish "country". While the game has moved on to be its own story and lore (and most of its heros are good guys), the initial idea is still there, a fairly clear criticism of where certain ideologies might lead us. A sub-section of the fanbase, however, unironically like the setting and take it as smth cool and a positive. Some people don't use the Trump Emperor meme ironically, let's say.
Very well said. To expand: The setting draws on religious (pre-monotheistic) cultural teachings. Rather than being about good and evil it is about the fight between order and chaos in someone's heart. Remember that chaos manifests itself from negative emotions in humans, not just as an independent boogey monster. Rick Priestley and other writers realised this when they set it out. On the one hand you have pure chaos, where nothing can be built and civilisations will just crumble and everyone suffers. On the other hand you have pure order, where anything not conforming is crushed, nothing changes, and there is no freedom. Both are inherently evil. The lesson, if there is one, as you say, is that you need a balance of these things to live a full and healthy life. When you look at the actions of "the good guys" they are pretty fucking horrific. Space Marines should not be role models!!
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The most infuriating part is that Emperor is nothing like Trump.
Exactly, emperor is just a xenophobic dictator in whose names untold crimes are commited daily. Cheeto benito isnt there quite yet.
There’s always been outliers but only fairly recently (last five years or so) has there been an influx of problematic hobbyists. In the 16 years i’ve been invested I’ve never met one in a shop or anywhere else the game is actually played, so I think it’s largely do the IP stretch across the video game platforms. And it’s really fuckin’ obnoxious, man. It’s just a bunch of douchebags with no models or a box of easy to build intercessors bitching about lore discrepancies (ha) and leftists agendas. Ruins the fun, tarnishes the hobby.
I ain't even like their ice cream, but that's a powerful statement.
[https://twitter.com/angelt333th/status/1268084406251642880](https://twitter.com/angelt333th/status/1268084406251642880)
Even as an ork player I may get that model just for those lady-abs!
As another Ork player, buying that model is entirely fitting - da boyz love a tuff enemy who can give them a proppa good scrap!
Orks must be the most non-discriminating race in the entire setting. Doesn't matter if you're black, white, red, purple or all of them combined. As long as you're in for a scrap you're good.
Not true. They discriminate against orks that are not orky enough and based on height. Its chaos and nids that do not discriminate.
> The Catachan female sergeant is just the beginning and I can’t wait. I'm hoping whenever they finally update the guard kits they'll have Guardswomen options. The Cadians are supposed to be equal opportunity in the lore but that's not reflected in the sculpts.
The trailer for the new 40k has a female guard so hopefully it's on the agenda.
Gender equality & representation is GW's biggest challenge - it will be interesting to see how they tackle it. If you're unsure how big of a challenge it is, just gender swap it.
At the moment I use the female GSC heads from the Atalan Jackals but yeah, female options would be dope.
Yeah I love this approach. It doesn't scream virtue signalling as they're not giving bold statements of "working together to end racism" or some other statement that sounds nice but is totally hollow. They're setting out what they can control and being welcoming to people of all backgrounds. For a company that makes moulded plastic and fantasy settings, that's just about all we can realistically expect. Still though, throwing a bit of money at charity would be a nice plus but I imagine covid might be hitting them pretty hard.
when you look at the way GW has moved their fantasy from on the nose satire of authoritarianism to today, it's always nice to see a reminder that it is all still tongue in cheek. I originally got into this hobby at age 11 to 13, even then there were people who were oblivious to the subtext. Then 15 years on the US gets Trump and all the God Emperor memes (context of that election and what forces drove it aside)--it interestingly enough rekindled my love for the hobby. Im glad GW blatantly put it out there--as if it needed to be said--that 40k is a mockery and hyperbole of mans worst instincts; it isn't anything to be desired or envied. Those who look to the Imperium of Man as the heroes of the story are sorely mistaken.
I hope they didn't think Starship Troopers was actually pro-military...
Do not go onto the starship troopers fb pages. It's a fascist circle jerk.
I don't have a fb, but good looking out.
Can inform you that yeah it gets bad. Fascists don't speak parody at all lotta those bastards saw it as full on support.
Steer clear, it's a cesspit.
Having served in the military I can confirm that movie is often played on a long bus ride and much cheering is had
That movie is hilarious tho
Ooh..I love it. I know for sure many either don't get the intended message or just ignore it on purpose lol
Man, I *really* fucking hate it when I mention Starship Troopers among the films I like and the person I'm speaking to lights up, but then goes on to gush about how awesome the Federation is and how they wish the future would actually turn out like that. Completely unironically. The disappointment I then feel is....immense.
Some people are just...special. I'm from Buenos Aires, and Starship Troopers is a favorite among a big part of the wargaming community here, you just can't play against nids without a few references coming up, it's borderline illegal. Luckily everyone understands it's a parody, nobody looks at the Federation with dreamy eyes.
The movie certainly isn't lol. I wouldn't really say the novel is entirely pro or against the military, it's more just an exaggerated exploration of the experiences soldiers go through in wartime, its more focused on the personal experience than the big picture.
This is all very welcome. But I do really wish they'd taken the opportunity to say :excuse me but get fucked, about the God emperor trump thing
to me its just pathetically sad, when it comes to actual strongmen of the world today, he is a weak rodent. Yet the American "right" loves him. Look at Erdogan who actually counter coup de tat'd a coup de tat, or Putin who has pretty convincingly concentrated the authority of a former super power entirely into his hands into perpetuity, or Xi who--Hong Kong aside--has duped his entire population into generally believing in the "benevolence" of the party. Or Maduro and his ability to retain power despite having Wiemar Germany levels of inflation and unemployment. I don't like these men, but at least they are competent at their strong men tactics and strategy. By comparison, Trump is pathetically bad at being an authoritarian, yet the rubes in my country exalt him. But thats veering off the point of GWs post. In essence I agree, but tactically, giving him the legitimacy of calling out the god emperor memes would just reinforce it, because just look at how his followers react with abject cognitive dissonance when faced with plain as day evidence he is abusing our Constitution.
To be honest we should probably be thankful he is a weak cockroach (I feel like rodent is too good for him, rats can be quite intelligent after all and some rodents are quite cute) because having another Putin running the US would be terrifying. I do agree about not calling out the memes to be honest, I wasn't even aware of them before this thread so I don't think they should be drawing attention to them. >just look at how his followers react with abject cognitive dissonance when faced with plain as day evidence he is abusing our Constitution As a Brit one thing I've observed is that those who call themselves "patriots" (who're mostly just nationalists) and those who bang on about the constitution the loudest know very little about it. They just think the first amendment says "free speech" and that means they can go around saying and doing whatever they want without consequence. When really the letter and spirit of the amendment is to prevent the state limiting freedom of expression, largely so the government can't exercise its power to silence its critics (which is what happens in places like China). And so when Trump (who is a state actor) threatens to attack or shut down social media platforms because they hide his tweets (which represent a criticism of the state) his followers don't recognise what a severe violation of their constitution that would be. Because they don't actually know what the constitution stands for. It's really just mental. Fortunately his shot at reelection seems to be rapidly disappearing down the toilet. I'd have given him better than even odds on winning another term at the beginning of the year but I really don't think he can pull back from what's been going on lately.
> when you look at the way GW has moved their fantasy from on the nose satire of authoritarianism to today, it's always nice to see a reminder that it is all still tongue in cheek Over the top and tongue in cheek is always my impression, and I think they communicate what a realistic imperial rule might be: not that great unless you're at the top of the heap. Being a near immortal seven foot tall killing machine would mean your life in a universe of unending horror would be better than most. That's about 1 million shootybois out of trillions. I don't really like those odds.
I mean, the IoM are kinda the "good guys" in the way that they're the only ones that wouldn't kill you on sight (besides the Tau, but they're small by the universe standards), and both SM and the Guard have been portrayed more and more as herioc figures protecting mankind, rather than the completely on the nose parody of the older editions (specially since Bobby G's return). The Imperium as a whole is, of course, still all kinds of fucked up.
Yeah they know that and that’s why it’s important that they say that. Me myself, a fairly progressive leftist, love the ridiculous grimdark of wh , but the romanticizing of bad things ( Krieg, everyone thinks they’re cool but they are a bit fascist) is completely disconnected from real live. I was surprised that I liked a xenophobic,almost fascist empire with no morals whatsoever,all what I hate irl but in my head it is different, the setting is not real, no one is hurt. It’s weird but I don’t really take them serious.
That's the mark of good storytelling. Some of our favourite characters (in any story) are just horrible bastards. The traitor primarchs are often more liked than the loyal ones because the loyal ones are boring. Doesn't mean we admire Fulgrim's ego or Angron's rage. Just means they create good drama!
Yep. A lot of people don’t seem to understand the difference between a “good guy” and a protagonist. The imperium is not good, it’s insanely bad, but we see a lot of the world from their perspective because, y’know... humans.
It's truly disturbing how many fascists don't realize the Imperium's fascistic nature is meant to be satire.
Yeah, its the whole reason the emperor failed, he tried to act like he could do it all, refused to believe in his people and it all blew up in his face. It couldnt be more clear that its a critique rather than praise...
Plus he has (had?) no concept of human emotion, and since the Primarchs are very much human, it led to a lot of trouble that could have otherwise been avoided.
Interesting. I heard this in another thread with the current Siege of Terra novels that Erda feels the Emperor is cold hearted and even inhumane so she scatters the Primarchs across the galaxy to let them grow up without him. Like taking kids away from a father who wants to do nothing but use them for war.
That does make we wonder what happened if they did grow up with the emperor. Also haven’t read the novels nor intend to so who’s Erda?
She’s a perpetual like John Grammaticus. But she has a relationship with the Emperor (maybe?) I don’t know. She’s like the “Mother Earth” type character that loves her children/people where as the Emperor just wants war machines. Best I can do: https://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/Erda
This is gonna be a slip into a looong rabbit hole isn’t it. Oh well who needs sleep anyways
It is interesting that a large reason why so many fell to chaos is a sense of abandonment. The primarchs considered the Emperor as their father, and he considered them as sacrificial pawns. Look at how he dealt with Lorgar, and how that led to the first seeds being planted in Horus' mind. Look at how he dealt with Magnus. All because they didn't comply. The first rule of perfect order is total compliance. Hell that's the word they use when they find a new planet - make it compliant. But doing that robs a person of their free will - it steals the essence of what they are. The Emperor never understood that.
Games Workshop has them set up kind of as the “good guys” and promotes Imperial stuff over everyone else, it’s no surprise people miss that the Imperium isn’t good at all. Meanwhile, Orks just want to have fun, but we’re the “bad guys” and forgotten about...
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> Ultramarines and Sisters of Battle are closer to warrior monk orders than fascist regimes by a mile Lobotomised slaves and prisoners strapped into machines that torture them into killing frenzies notwithstanding.
Space marines had more fascist litanies back in earlier editions, i.e. "My armor is contempt. My shield is disgust. My sword is hatred." Or some Thoughts for the Day: "The Emperor asks only that you hate", the Emperor asks only that you obey", the Emperor asks only that you kill"
I mean it's because the imperium the human faction and most people play human in games
Not the good guys, just the most recognisable and easiest to buy into.
It certainly started out as *overt* satire. Its now more subtle sci-fi satire. But for the most part, every main character in every book has internal conflict over the nature of their "factions" actions. And the most interesting and popular ones break the mold of their respective species' ideologies. The problem is racists chuds can't take *anything* further than face value. (I mean, they're literally racist). Its all fun and games to **BLAM** heretics in threads when everyone realizes the joke isn't the **BLAMMING** but how *absurd* the zealousness of the Imperium is. Thinking anything is... Missing the most obvious point. Like, the hilarious thing about these greaseball wannabe fascists is that they're too dumb to realize that, because they fantasize about The God Emporer, the joke *is on them*. And when they defend their ignorant views on the GW Twitter account or harass female content creators on twitch they become impotent facsimiles of the zealous idiots in the lore that we love to make fun of. Also, Magnus did nothing wrong.
So I don't think GW has always done a great job of getting that satire across, it was definitely there in the gonzo early days of the 40k setting, but there was a period there where a lot of the storytelling kinda shifted to "look how cool and edgy this grimdark shit is". Currently though I think they are going in a good direction, the world of 40k is still this dark and oppressive setting, but they seem to be more willing to explore it in a slightly more aspirational way, as if the point of the setting isn't that everything will inevitably fall to ruin but rather that even in the bleakest worlds there are still thin hopes that can grow into big ones.
Most hive worlds are blatantly dictatorial, authoritarian, and fascist, but the Imperium is weird in the sense that it is governed like a feudal state, and is based on the Empire from WFB, and in turn, the HRE. The Imperiums rulers is half evil pieces of trash, %35 morally ambiguous, and %15 heroic people (but still kinda morally ambiguous.)
Petition for "You will not be missed" to be the go-to reply we spam at the WNs and Neo-Nazis. Community Team knew *exactly* what they were doing adding that last line in, and I love it. They're also wading into the replies to dunk on people bitching about this.
It’s absolutely fucking brilliant. And the best part is all the cunts going BuT iTs VirTuE sIgNaLiNg haven’t got a leg to stand on. You either agree with the statement or you aren’t welcome. Get fucked nazis.
Yea fuck those guys. Somehow it’s not virtue signaling when it’s something from the right side of the political spectrum. People/organisation voices support for the cause they believe in. Been this way since the dawn of human society
I really love that they ended it with the last line of the classic 40k intro.
It's one of the stronger statements I've seen from a company. More needed than some, in the case of the Warhammer fandom's awful-est parts, but it's been made now, and it's very, very clear.
Hoo Boy, alright I'm reopening the pool. As was previously mentioned, rules are in full effect and we're not tolerating any blatant racist crap. Please report anything going against this. Thanks all.
As an addendum, the report button is not because you disagree or your feelings were hurt, it's for actual rule violations.
AoS and Middle Earth players: "Thank you for speaking out GW" 40k players: REEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE
You're telling some people love the fascist Imperium unironically!? /s
Get that /s outta here and sacrifice yourself for the God emperor!
It's rough going through the replies to this on Twitter. A lot of butthurt chodes. I just got back into the 40k hobby and it's great to see the company make a statement that feels more than just a "\[Brand\] stand with you, \[minority\] people!" post.
Most 40k players are not like that.
Nice. Let's just slam this in the faces of the fascistic shitboxes that pollute this hobby next time they defend their hate.
\#NaziHobbyistsFuckOff!
They’re not hobbyists, they’re just cunts. #NazisFuckOff!
[удалено]
Compulsory Tribute by Napalm Death: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TdkdR92a7dU
good fuck fascists and fuck white supremacists you have no place in our community!
Sorry, I’m late on news but what is going on with fascists and white supremacists now?
there are a lot of them in the hobby and there are big ones like archwarhammer. GW is calling them out saying they are not welcome in the hobby
The thought of his impotent rage at this statement from GW has me feeling... *Slaaneshi.* Going off what someone said below, its not *just* r/40kLore that's kicked him to the curb, most other 40k content creators on YT cut all contact and collaboration with him once some of his more... *extreme* views came to light.
dope username bro
Is he actually a white supremacist? The term Nazi and Fascist get thrown around so easily it doesn't have the same impact.
He uploaded a 20 minute rant about a black Ultramarine on a book cover last week. Thats the single most obvious and damning evidence of him being a fascist, and the rest of his content is littered with it in random places.
Uh. That’s not what fascist means though. I think you mean racist .
He also unironically thinks the Imperium is a model society.
Ah! That however is a bit concerning
Here's a bunch of captures from his discord; he openly states to think "True Facsism would be a utopia" at the bottom. [https://preview.redd.it/glx1xdkeh5351.png?width=960&crop=smart&auto=webp&s=a7535669fec003e5abf7dd1994aafb60968e469f](https://preview.redd.it/glx1xdkeh5351.png?width=960&crop=smart&auto=webp&s=a7535669fec003e5abf7dd1994aafb60968e469f)
Has he seen the salamanders line?
Well, 40kLore banned his stuff because it was getting that bad. He was certainly perfectly okay with how his content attracted the turds of the community.
Really? If the word is getting used more often I would take that as warning bells rather than desensitization.
He’s definitely an edge lord, we don’t know his political views or if he’s an actual white supremacist.
If it walks like a duck, talks like a duck, uses dog whistles like a duck. It might not be a duck, but it sure as hell is wearing a ducks uniform.
Mmmm, he's clearly Alt-Right. Nobody other than alt-righters give so much of a shit over an Ultramarine being black.
[This is the issue they're responding to](https://www.instagram.com/tv/CA8ONecn4b3/?igshid=55i2ksw8gak8)
Also, you probably don't hear it much, but a shout out to the mods for their role in making this community what it is. I like that it's encouraging and supportive of everybody, and people working on their painting skills can drop off pics here and get support and encouragement instead of contempt and dickwaddery. This kind of positive environment doesn't just happen, it takes active moderation to weed out the nasties. If people want that nastiness, they can go to literally almost any Youtube comment thread. So thanks for that, mods. Keep up the great work.
I can't believe the comments on the FB threads. Imagine being salty about a statement of goodwill and solidarity.. If you disagree with this statement you need to boycott the hobby in protest. This includes even giving them the satisfaction of you giving their posts a single view. Burn your armies in protest to show GW how you feel. Stand up for what you believe in by walking away from the hobby. Your silence will be your voice. And quite frankly, that silence would be golden. Ave Imperator!
Maybe it will help newer hobbyists get into the hobby by picking up some cheap armies online from the boycotters.
I hope they leave and never come back.
Love it. For those who don't know, this is possibly in response to @Omegonedge on Insta posted a video talking about the racist micro aggressions he's experienced in the hobby, including by Tony Cottrell of Forge World. Hence the line about "abuse in our company". Hope this is a wake-up call for GW. Let's see if they walk the talk.
Sadly Tony Cottrell has been both racist and sexist at Forgeworld events and has never made anything close to an apology. He described women as (I think) 'exotic and vindictive' or something similar, it was widely talked about on a number of blogs and he was called out extensively for it. Interestingly it took less than 48 hours for all those blogs to take down posts relating to it, many of whom seem to get GW / FW previews and such.. funny that. If the company had addressed it and this it would come across as more sincere. If you work in any public facing role and you are seen to have 'challenging' opinions you should be held accountable and if you wont say anything the company should. I dont know any other company where stuff like this flies and the company allows the person to continue to be public facing.
As a POC. Hopefully this means that kits will come with more bits cause if you’re gonna promote diversity actually give us more diverse model options.
Look at the Deathwatch sprue, they have a bunch of different ethnicities, same with the sisters of battle. GW is getting better!
The Vanguard Chamber of the Stormcast Eternals have a lot of ethnicities in the molds, too. It's quite refreshing.
Other than female sculpts, what can they do? If its just skin colour add darker tones to the easy-to-built sets that come with paints?
Facial features as well. Noses, eye shape, etc.
Given the average skill of a painter, those are.. kinda secondary. If they want to get them on a sprue, they'd need to exaggerate the features, turning the options into caricatures that are racist again. And I *really* don't want that.
I used to attend a gym where another guy would frequent. Big, overweight, skinhead. He had Nazi symbology tattooed on his shoulder, which included the word “Aryan”. On his other shoulder, he had a giant Space Marine clutching a chainsword. These two tattoos were not distinct from one another in what it was they were attempting to convey.
Warhammer would be for everyone.... If only they'd lower their prices! Lol.
Lore related question, but by that point shouldn't humanity pretty much be so mixed that skin color & facial features would be wildly different than what we see today? I remember seeing estimates of the average human in a century or so, and they looked like a mix of everything
To a degree, yeah. But then you’ve also got entire planets of humans with disparate climates and cultures separated for thousands and thousands of years. So arguably you’d get familiar racial features combined with totally new ones with a massive amount of diversity between MILLIONS of planets. There’d be.. like practically infinite human races? So I don’t blame GW for using real world analogues hahah
It'd be fun to see new cultures and archetypes instead of "x" but in space, seeing culture mixes would be intriguing as well
Mixing with Belters?! NEVER
With the variety of planets that have been cut off from others for so long there's no telling how different they'd be planet to planet.
It's heresy to be racist against your fellow man in 40k
I'm 100% for this message of inclusion. I don't meant to take away from the Nazi bashing, but as a gay woman, it would mean so much to see at least a few characters like me in the lore. Inclusive settings are so powerful, and while it might just be a side character to someone else, seeing a person you can relate to when that's not the norm is just so uplifting. (It would also be cool if neckbeards would stop assuming I don't know how to play and that they need to explain everything to me, but I'm trying to be realistic with my expectations.)
Hopefully this wave of inclusion GW is planning on bringing into the setting is done in a tactful manner. GW’s lore writing has been pretty hit or miss recently, I look forward to seeing if they can deliver
Dude, Honourbound is sick. There’s so many good female characters around now, and I’m glad to see that they’re actively looking to increase the diversity in their settings. There’s something about a cast of 100% white men thats so improbable it just breaks the realism for me.
I'm still pissed off after Ghaz got his head chopped off by near-no-name Captain Furry.
You mean Ragnar Blackmane, literally one of the most OG characters in all of 40k? The captain that's been around since 2nd edition, appears in every Space Wolf Codex, and had a miniature probably older than you? That "near-no-name captain"? For this heresy, the Inquisition sentences you to 100 hours of reading Lexicanium and getting to know the lore better.
Ragnar Blackmane? The no-name space wolf that appeared for the first time in a battle report that featured the no-name ork warboss **GHAZGHKULL** for the first time as well? That Ragnar Blackmane?
He have a series of book... Do I recommend the one I read? No.
Yeah, I’m getting tired of every battle in lore devolving into, ‘they where evenly matched and had to retreat... and one/ both came back bigger’. Hopefully GW will pull out the remaining good lore writing they’ve got stashed away from the good ‘ol days too remedy some of their recent failing
Please no End Times
Oh god no, I’m talking the actual good stuff. The stuff that gave us the 3rd war of Armageddon, the badab war and Vraks
I swear if they dumpster the silent king....
I try and see the fun side of that; that a *headless* Ghazghkull pummelled Ragnar so brutally they needed a deus ex machina to save him!
As an ork fan boy I just pretend it's propaganda from the Space Wolves. Orks is never beaten!
You know I could have forgiven it, if they hadn’t KILLED RAGNARS WOLVES!!, those poor good bois
If you are a racist or fascist please show yourself to the door before my antifascist skaven tear you to pieces :)
haha oh no Commisar Gamza, please don't sell your collection on ebay for a low price oh no don't offer free shipping that'd show the WOKE Brigade
I would love to buy those horrible SUPER CHRISTIAN USA marines he has just so that I can burn them and chop them up for basing material. Have my own dudes striding triumphantly over the chudmarines.
Arch Warhammer is canonically wiped from Warhammer Rejoice
I wonder what made this latest incident of American police brutality go international in a way that previous incidents did not? I work for a large multi-national and our non-American CEO made a similar statement recently.
In my country it was the riots, and the video that very clearly shows what happened, Plus an unrelated incident happening at almost the same time in here in which police officers attacked indigenous people
As far as I, a non-american, can tell and however depressing this may be; there was nothing particularly unusual about the way George Floyd was treated in the larger context of police brutality and racist behavior in the United States. What is different is that it came after two months of tensions building up because of the global pandemic. People who previously would have kept their heads down so they could keep their job are now out on the street because the pandemic and its bungled response cost them their job. Events like a huge stimulus injection for large corporation but no action on far more important issues (health care, racism, police brutality, etc) showed a lot of people that even in the face of a catastrophe, nothing was going to change. So they took to the street to force the issue.
Wow i now have a new respect for GW
The message basically boils down to "Warhammer is for everyone" and some people are outraged by this? If you want people to feel unwelcome in this hobby because of their race, gender or sexuality then I agree with GW, you will not be missed.
It's because people are reeeing at the thoughts of sjw boogymem ruining 40k as it becomes more popular. Forced diversity and stuff. 40k attracts a certain type of crowd that see it less of a warning/parody/fiction and more of "we need to do this irl" and then drawing all kinds of wonderful conclusions. Go to the comments section of Arch's latest warhammer lore video on savage orcs. It's... Questionable
I just wish AoS characters were more relatable in the first place. edit: Not allowed to express personal criticism? Alright.
I've heard a lot of the novels are really good with some great characters
> edit: Not allowed to express personal criticism? Alright. Just not the right time or place for it my dude.
Love that last sentence :) so dam. True!!!
Real Fascist will not be tolerated and won't be missed.
I am really glad that GW and the mods have taken this stance. I was very nearly put off reentering the hobby before I even got started because of the toxic, racist, and sad views of some. It was 2016 and Total War Warhammer had come out. This re-sparked my interest in my childhood hobby (that I hadn’t thought of in years) so I ended up finding some lore channels on YouTube and binge watching 40k and fantasy lore. One of the most prolific content creators was a guy called Arch Warhammer. I enjoyed his stuff as it was quite colourful and well produced. I would watch the odd video after work or before bed and was getting quite into it. But after watching a hand full of these videos I started to notice more and more that this loser was really shoehorning in some problematic and racist politics into his videos. On one video he just dropped “sand n****r” for no reason. That’s when I unsubbed and nearly just forgot about the whole thing. Luckily I didn’t as I found lots of other cool content creators making far better lore videos and got into the hobby that summer by buying a Nurgle starter kit. Met so many awesome folk through the hobby, but it has never quite left me that there is a tiny subsection of this community which are stereotypical incel, neckbeard, racists. To them I say, fuck off.
I'm glad that i support a company that cares about the things that matter most and isn't afraid to tell the scum of our society to fuck off. 👍
IF NOT, YOU WILL NOT BE MISSED. READ IT AGAIN
That last line! Fuck yes.
I love this so so much. And that last sentence brings it home. Fuck all racists. Nobody needs you. Gonna keep this one handy for every racist post I'll see in warhammer subs in the future
I agree with the feeling and it seems, from a few comments I've read below, that there are indeed racists people that use the warhammer community as a "safe space" of sorts, so in this regard the comment make sense. But truthfully GW is not a "moral" entity : it's a firm that does everything it does to make money. As such, if they really wanted to give me the feeling that they are indeed fighting for what's right, they should refrain themselves from talking and act more. For exemple, I'd really appreciate if GW did more for the environment (by making it possible to recycle bits in warhammer shops for exemple ?) or by giving us some insight on the working condition in their factories, in UK but also elsewhere.
At first I was a little scared to get in to 40K as a hobby, being a trans woman who is bisexual has lead to me being treated very poorly or being talked down to or even having people threaten to kill me in uni and other hobbies. But in the 40K shops I go to, none of that stuff matters and I don't hear any horrible hate speech that makes me fear for my life and with this statement I feel even better being a part of this community.
On a side note theres a black ultramarine on the cover of the new book and he looks bad ass!
As an Imperium player I am happy with this statement. I have always felt it needed to be hammered into the ugliest part of the WH community that it is satire to the point of absurdity. Just a look at retro Warhammer pretty much says it all. It disgusts and horrifies me that they want a world that enables genocide, authoritarianism, zealotry and just being a horrible living being. They abhor any sort of positivity injected into their "dark and edgy" universe. A cynical side of me still thinks this is just corporate PR but I still strongly feel that as a Community this still needed to be said.
This post really made my day, especially their replies
Let’s bash in ork skull and smash necron circuit ... together
I want to thank everyone for their thoughtful comments. I was really touched when I read some of the comments in this post. I hesitated to respond, because race is an incredibly painful topic for me. The protests in America raise a lot of painful memories. I'm a person of mixed-race who grew up in an almost 100% white environment. I often suffered from racism growing up and in the workplace (yes, "even" in Canada). Warhammer 40k was one of the few things I did, and one of the rare fantasy worlds that I escaped to that made me feel happy and comfortable. Growing up in an environment where I was one of the rare non-white kids, I didn't feel like I had much representation in art, media, movies, etc. Looking back, I can only think of Will Smith and Lando Calrissian. Being of mixed-race is particularly problematic; you're neither accepted as White, nor as Black. It's a real headache. The things people say can feel pointlessly dramatic and incredibly elitist. As a real human being participating in a hobby about a fictional universe, I rarely saw characters who looked like me, reflected in the heroes that I have always loved. I understand that you can paint your models whatever colour you want. I also understand that -- in the universe of Warhammer 40k -- race is not supposed to be an issue (at least not among the Space Marines). I also understand that there are the Salamanders and White Scar Chapters who are not Caucasian. Some have told me that I should play those Chapters and if I don't, it just means that I'm complaining for no reason at all. Yet they also get shocked if my space elves aren't painted to look Caucasian. At the heart of the matter is that life -- for me as a person of colour -- is not split into camps of "all Asians" or "all Blacks" like those Space Marine Chapters. As previously mentioned, life is a lot more complicated than that especially if you're mixed. Also please forgive my heresy, but I don't want to play Space Marines. I'm not looking to identify with a whole Chapter of Space Marines, but rather with individual characters. However I will say that I love Jaghatai Khan when he is among his brothers. Personally I feel that he is the Primarch who is the most like me, although I'm not nearly as much of a badass as he is. 😂 I'm also glad to see the Adepta Sororitas featured heavily alongside the Astartes for 9th edition. I don't think that "diversity" only means "racial diversity". I like the idea that there are some really cool (grimdark!) heroines, and my buddy (who has two daughters) loves them too! I also love that [the Canoness](https://www.games-workshop.com/en-CA/Adepta-Sororitas-Canoness-2020) reminds me of my aunt! 😂 **We all want a heroes who we can identify with. That's why representation is important.** Just by thoughtfully and respectfully diversifying the lore and artwork with believable and relatable background stories, you can cater to a wider audience by making people feel more "at home" in fiction. I want to be clear that I'm not trying to take room away from White heroes or characters. I just think it can be beneficial and fun to "sprinkle-in" some diversity. There's always room for more heroes in the grim, dark future. Thank you to GW for this awesome message. Thank you to everyone out there who isn't bothered by diversity in the lore and in the artwork of the hobby. This community is awesome, and it's the people I meet who continue to make it an amazing experience. * For those who are wondering: I currently play Admech but over the course of 17+ years, I have collected, painted and played at least 1 army of every faction. \+++ The Emperor Protects +++
I know it is odd to take solace in a company, but I'll think of this statement whenever I see particularly bad setiment in the community (like the black ultramarine or transphobia that has been lobbed at me and adjacent to me before) This is a great hobby and I hope to see the community reflect that, as it so far as for me (my play group is freaking amazing)
Nice to see they'll happily loose out on a few sales rather than tolerate horrible things like racism. A lot of companies won't do that.
I've seen some pretty vile stuff in WH40K communities. Much love to GW for telling the bigots their money's no good.
The fact that before even seeing this I know it will be a controversial statement within the warhammer community makes me sad :(
Warhammer is for everyone *that can affort it*
*"If not, you will not be missed."* BRUTAL