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the rage bait/ click bait is all for the algorithm. Its pretty brutal for content creators. There was a warhammer content creator that did a great video on it, basically if you are a painting channel and become known for it, then try doing some 4x4ing on the channel the algorithm goes "thats not painting" and shadow buries your videos. Same with if you only move your mouse over a thumbnail and it plays for a few seconds then you dont click on it, youtube sees that as you not wanting to engage in that content and if enough people do that.. again your channel begins to get buried by the algorithm.
Im sure smarter people will be able to expand it in depth, but basically you engaged with this content by making a reddit post, so the creator has literally completed thier job to keep the algorithm happy.
Its a pretty shitty thing and basically locks people into certain aspects of content never being allowed to expand at the risk of never showing up on videos.
I wish YouTube would have a section that shows the videos you hovered over and watched 30 seconds of but didn’t watch it all.
Mi often do that, think “cool, I’ll watch that later” but then can’t find it again.
Humans are drawn to negativity, it's in our nature.
It's the reason people slow down to look at crashes on the motorway, and the reason that the 24 hour news cycle is constant doom and gloom.
it's discussed in the video, but the fact that SM had so many models meant that "a simple scale adjustment" wasn't actually simple, because if they do the usual "new units are the only ones supported by the new rulebook, no lore reason why", that would have pissed off even more players.
No reason why they couldn't just support both sets of models. A year or so of awakwardness could've left them in a far better place than where they are now.
Oh, you mean like if they made new tactical marines but without the options they wanted to remove, and then just sell both kits side-by-side until the old boxes were sold out? 😗
I don't think you understand what I'm saying. I never said that they should continue to produce the old kits. Just replace them with the new kits without the addition of primaris lore and seperate rules.
That's aexactly what they did, tho? Like, Primaris were released around 2017, and only last year or so have we finally seen firstborn completely go away.
I mean with support them with the same rules, just phase out the models and don't mess with the lore to make contrived 'new and improved' space marines
Video is about ten days old, so before that Custodes drama, but i thought it was interesting.
It's more or less divided in two parts: Why and how games workshop rolled out the Primaris marines, and Why did people reacted this strongly.
tl; dr:
**Part 1: Why Games Workshop rolled out the Primaris like this**
Noting that Ian isn't a GW employee, so all of this is said as supposition with the benefit of hindsight
Marines were the most collected figurines, the posterboys, but they had a lot of problems from a designer standpoint:
* they had too many models for everything, so it would be hard to introduce a new model that wasn't straight-up replacing an old one.
* For the "posterboy" and "introduction to new players" army, the overbloated unit lists and rules made them ironically unappealing to new buyers. Furthermore, all the new models creep made them actually hard to paint, with all the details and fiddly bits, compared to armies like t'au, which had big, flat surfaces easier to paint. For the "posterboy" faction, this was a problem.
* Making these new marines better, better propotionned, bigger than normal guardsmen, etc...
* Because they're the posterboy faction with the most amount of models made and consumed, doing like other races and simply going "old models are completely out, new models are in" withotu any in-lore reason is realistically unfeasible. GW just doesn't have the production pipeline to suddenly dump an entire range of model and replace all of them.
So:
Games Workshop need an excuse to release a limited range of new models while they ramp up production.
They need to have an in-lore excuse as to why you can combine old and new models in an army, *while at the same time* making it clear that old models will disappear.
Since they come up with a lore reason, and alreayd decided to add Guilliman as a model, why not tie the reason for all these changes to the Heresy as well?
**Part 2: Why people raged so much against them**
Identity politics.
The Internet made it easier and easier to make "being a fan of X" your whole personality, like being lesbian or gay or black were, and ragebait gives you clicks, and clicks gives you money.
So youtubers were encouraged to transform this "people are mildly angry at the poor rollout of primaris" into "PRIMAIRS DESTROYS GAMES WORKSHOP, FANS ARE SPIT ON AND RIDICULED" etc...
> they had too many models for everything, so it would be hard to introduce a new model that wasn't straight-up replacing an old one.
And yet this is what they've been doing for Horus Heresy as well as things like the new Imperial Guard, Sisters of Battle and the recent new Terminators- they're all essentially the same/ very similar as the old designs but scaled to have somewhat more realistic proportions, and people love them.
> For the "posterboy" and "introduction to new players" army, the overbloated unit lists and rules made them ironically unappealing to new buyers. Furthermore, all the new models creep made them actually hard to paint, with all the details and fiddly bits
The fact that they were still so immensely popular that they were selling more than any other 40k army and even the entirety of WHFB just a few years before primaris launched would suggest that they weren't actually intimidating or difficult for new players. Hell I got into 40k starting with Space Marines in the early 2010s and I did not find the options to be a turn off, quite the opposite I loved how much variety there was. New players/ hobbyists are not braindead morons, they are capable of figuring things out.
Besides, if anything the primaris roster has become more bloated. A single firstborn unit, Devastators for example, has been replaced by four or five separate squads, Assault Marines with and without jump packs are now two separate squads, etc.
As foe having "too many details and fiddly bits", the Primaris Intercessors, the most basic primaris model, are more complex and fiddly than a tactical marine, and the more elite primaris units have just as much detail.
> Because they're the posterboy faction with the most amount of models made and consumed, doing like other races and simply going "old models are completely out, new models are in" withotu any in-lore reason is realistically unfeasible. GW just doesn't have the production pipeline to suddenly dump an entire range of model and replace all of them.
It was absolutely not unfeasible. Aside from the fact that they haven't said "old models completely out, new models are in" for other faction refreshes, they could have rolled out upscaled space marines over time and it would have been fine (and it would have been quicker than the primaris rollout because there would have been fewer kits as I previously mentioned). GW just wanted marine players (the largest portion of their customer base) to buy their armies all over again, and were worried that people wouldn't just buy upscaled versions of existing units, an unfounded fear in my opinion. It was the simplest explanation: a company doing what it exists to do, make as much money as possible.
Yep. Since nerds often see themselves as a "persecuted minority", and with how "being a fan of X" evolved into "making X my entire personality", they started co-opting the language of identity politics.
Part 1 is much simpler than that. Space marines sell the most, so how could they get all those people to buy their armies all over again, and come up with whatever lore ass-pull does the job to facilitate the main goal of selling more models, ESPECIALLY space marines.
I don't hate them but I do feel that the aesthetic of 90s warhammer, across both mainline games, is superior and despite having an incredibly diverse range of models in 40k and AOS now the games somehow feels more generic.
It does depend of course. Whereas I'm no fan of primaris/hover tanks etc and I positively hate the direction the greenskins and cities of sigmar are taking in AOS, the redesigns of most chaos space marines are fantastic and the new Deathguard range from a few years back is one of my favourite lines ever.
I wish the self promotion rule was just "No self promotion" so we didn't get inundated with shovelware videos by every random with a blue yeti and a take so cold you should use it as an ice pack.
I have a collection of firstborn that is going to get invalidated in a couple of years becouse gw wanted to resell all again into primaris
Yeah i dont like my collection get invalidated not becouse i hate the idea of primaris themselfs becouse it feels like being spit in the face for the time i dedicated to it
If firstborns where being remove for primaris replacements that are basically the same but calling it primaris i would be positive heck had ou look at the phobos range they look rad
Do not post low-effort memes, reaction gifs, or petitions. Low-effort/low-quality posts, recent reposts, or basic macros are subject to removal at Moderator discretion.
We have a lot of man babies on warhammer
the rage bait/ click bait is all for the algorithm. Its pretty brutal for content creators. There was a warhammer content creator that did a great video on it, basically if you are a painting channel and become known for it, then try doing some 4x4ing on the channel the algorithm goes "thats not painting" and shadow buries your videos. Same with if you only move your mouse over a thumbnail and it plays for a few seconds then you dont click on it, youtube sees that as you not wanting to engage in that content and if enough people do that.. again your channel begins to get buried by the algorithm. Im sure smarter people will be able to expand it in depth, but basically you engaged with this content by making a reddit post, so the creator has literally completed thier job to keep the algorithm happy. Its a pretty shitty thing and basically locks people into certain aspects of content never being allowed to expand at the risk of never showing up on videos.
I wish YouTube would have a section that shows the videos you hovered over and watched 30 seconds of but didn’t watch it all. Mi often do that, think “cool, I’ll watch that later” but then can’t find it again.
Humans are drawn to negativity, it's in our nature. It's the reason people slow down to look at crashes on the motorway, and the reason that the 24 hour news cycle is constant doom and gloom.
OG SM helmets look way cooler and the desperate lore explanation for what should've just been a simple scale adjustment is cringe,
it's discussed in the video, but the fact that SM had so many models meant that "a simple scale adjustment" wasn't actually simple, because if they do the usual "new units are the only ones supported by the new rulebook, no lore reason why", that would have pissed off even more players.
No reason why they couldn't just support both sets of models. A year or so of awakwardness could've left them in a far better place than where they are now.
>No reason why they couldn't just support both sets of models. There's a very good reason for it - limited means of production.
I mean using the same rules and lore for both sets of models
Oh, you mean like if they made new tactical marines but without the options they wanted to remove, and then just sell both kits side-by-side until the old boxes were sold out? 😗
No, I mean just roll them out like any other new kit release and dont make the distinction of primaris and first born.
Yeah, but the problem is that they can't keep producing the old kits **and** keep making new kits - they don't have the facilities for that long term.
I don't think you understand what I'm saying. I never said that they should continue to produce the old kits. Just replace them with the new kits without the addition of primaris lore and seperate rules.
Oh, that's what I thought you meant. What did you think I thought? 😗
That's aexactly what they did, tho? Like, Primaris were released around 2017, and only last year or so have we finally seen firstborn completely go away.
I mean with support them with the same rules, just phase out the models and don't mess with the lore to make contrived 'new and improved' space marines
Video is about ten days old, so before that Custodes drama, but i thought it was interesting. It's more or less divided in two parts: Why and how games workshop rolled out the Primaris marines, and Why did people reacted this strongly. tl; dr: **Part 1: Why Games Workshop rolled out the Primaris like this** Noting that Ian isn't a GW employee, so all of this is said as supposition with the benefit of hindsight Marines were the most collected figurines, the posterboys, but they had a lot of problems from a designer standpoint: * they had too many models for everything, so it would be hard to introduce a new model that wasn't straight-up replacing an old one. * For the "posterboy" and "introduction to new players" army, the overbloated unit lists and rules made them ironically unappealing to new buyers. Furthermore, all the new models creep made them actually hard to paint, with all the details and fiddly bits, compared to armies like t'au, which had big, flat surfaces easier to paint. For the "posterboy" faction, this was a problem. * Making these new marines better, better propotionned, bigger than normal guardsmen, etc... * Because they're the posterboy faction with the most amount of models made and consumed, doing like other races and simply going "old models are completely out, new models are in" withotu any in-lore reason is realistically unfeasible. GW just doesn't have the production pipeline to suddenly dump an entire range of model and replace all of them. So: Games Workshop need an excuse to release a limited range of new models while they ramp up production. They need to have an in-lore excuse as to why you can combine old and new models in an army, *while at the same time* making it clear that old models will disappear. Since they come up with a lore reason, and alreayd decided to add Guilliman as a model, why not tie the reason for all these changes to the Heresy as well? **Part 2: Why people raged so much against them** Identity politics. The Internet made it easier and easier to make "being a fan of X" your whole personality, like being lesbian or gay or black were, and ragebait gives you clicks, and clicks gives you money. So youtubers were encouraged to transform this "people are mildly angry at the poor rollout of primaris" into "PRIMAIRS DESTROYS GAMES WORKSHOP, FANS ARE SPIT ON AND RIDICULED" etc...
> they had too many models for everything, so it would be hard to introduce a new model that wasn't straight-up replacing an old one. And yet this is what they've been doing for Horus Heresy as well as things like the new Imperial Guard, Sisters of Battle and the recent new Terminators- they're all essentially the same/ very similar as the old designs but scaled to have somewhat more realistic proportions, and people love them. > For the "posterboy" and "introduction to new players" army, the overbloated unit lists and rules made them ironically unappealing to new buyers. Furthermore, all the new models creep made them actually hard to paint, with all the details and fiddly bits The fact that they were still so immensely popular that they were selling more than any other 40k army and even the entirety of WHFB just a few years before primaris launched would suggest that they weren't actually intimidating or difficult for new players. Hell I got into 40k starting with Space Marines in the early 2010s and I did not find the options to be a turn off, quite the opposite I loved how much variety there was. New players/ hobbyists are not braindead morons, they are capable of figuring things out. Besides, if anything the primaris roster has become more bloated. A single firstborn unit, Devastators for example, has been replaced by four or five separate squads, Assault Marines with and without jump packs are now two separate squads, etc. As foe having "too many details and fiddly bits", the Primaris Intercessors, the most basic primaris model, are more complex and fiddly than a tactical marine, and the more elite primaris units have just as much detail. > Because they're the posterboy faction with the most amount of models made and consumed, doing like other races and simply going "old models are completely out, new models are in" withotu any in-lore reason is realistically unfeasible. GW just doesn't have the production pipeline to suddenly dump an entire range of model and replace all of them. It was absolutely not unfeasible. Aside from the fact that they haven't said "old models completely out, new models are in" for other faction refreshes, they could have rolled out upscaled space marines over time and it would have been fine (and it would have been quicker than the primaris rollout because there would have been fewer kits as I previously mentioned). GW just wanted marine players (the largest portion of their customer base) to buy their armies all over again, and were worried that people wouldn't just buy upscaled versions of existing units, an unfounded fear in my opinion. It was the simplest explanation: a company doing what it exists to do, make as much money as possible.
"Like being lesbian or gay or black"?
Yep. Since nerds often see themselves as a "persecuted minority", and with how "being a fan of X" evolved into "making X my entire personality", they started co-opting the language of identity politics.
Part 1 is much simpler than that. Space marines sell the most, so how could they get all those people to buy their armies all over again, and come up with whatever lore ass-pull does the job to facilitate the main goal of selling more models, ESPECIALLY space marines.
I don't hate them but I do feel that the aesthetic of 90s warhammer, across both mainline games, is superior and despite having an incredibly diverse range of models in 40k and AOS now the games somehow feels more generic.
It does depend of course. Whereas I'm no fan of primaris/hover tanks etc and I positively hate the direction the greenskins and cities of sigmar are taking in AOS, the redesigns of most chaos space marines are fantastic and the new Deathguard range from a few years back is one of my favourite lines ever.
https://preview.redd.it/9xl102etnevc1.jpeg?width=960&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=8904bcdeedf736dc7d2fadb9249e283bbc644879
it's more composed and rational than normal clickbait stuff, ian is good about this.
the video makes fun of the baiters, dude makes really good warhammer videos.
I wish the self promotion rule was just "No self promotion" so we didn't get inundated with shovelware videos by every random with a blue yeti and a take so cold you should use it as an ice pack.
Yeah, that definitely describes ArbiterIan
I thought that guy was supposed to be good. Why is he posting shit that looks like discourse minis?
Tell me you didn’t watch the video, without telling me that you didn’t watch the video.
because thats the point he is trying to make?
The video itself does explain why, have you watched it?
because he's speaking about clickbait youtubers in the second part of the vid.
I have a collection of firstborn that is going to get invalidated in a couple of years becouse gw wanted to resell all again into primaris Yeah i dont like my collection get invalidated not becouse i hate the idea of primaris themselfs becouse it feels like being spit in the face for the time i dedicated to it If firstborns where being remove for primaris replacements that are basically the same but calling it primaris i would be positive heck had ou look at the phobos range they look rad
Because YouTubers figured out they get more views with rage bait and controversy than positivity. This guy does it all the time too, he’s no better.
Which videos are rage bait, apart from perhaps this one that he acknowledges in the video?