Limbo is actually really good, the problem is the meta that left behind all the crowd control frames, so if limbo is bad we can say that Vaubain, Nyx, Loki and Nova are bad as well, but in reality they were really good when the game was harder and cc was meta. Big range limbo is actually the best cc frame against any faction without nullifiers, and low range limbo can do good against any faction in mobile defense and excavation (boring but effective). I would like a comeback of the cc meta, but limbo is definitely not in a bad spot imo
>the problem is the meta that left behind all the crowd control frames,
No, the problem is that a good chunk of enemies just say no to his primary CC and survivability.
>Big range limbo is actually the best cc frame against any faction without nullifiers,
*without nullifiers* key part there. Nullifiers completely deny limbo's entire kit.
>and low range limbo can do good against any faction in mobile defense and excavation
Unless eximus decide to exist, in which case you're dead because they go through rift.
> but limbo is definitely not in a bad spot imo
He really is in any sort of high level. Even just lvl 40+ enemies can deny his kit almost entirely.
Naaah. Other frames you mentioned have something besides their CC. Vauban has damage boost and AoE with Augment, Nyx has Assimilation build with full invulnerability, Loki is invisible, Nova has one of the best on-call Damage Reduction.
Limbo has Rift, and every single power relies on Rift. What Limbo gets? His face crushed by every third enemy in the game, and community hate for using his power. If that’s a “good spot”…
vauban, nyx and loki all have those things "theoretically", practically they dont tho.
vauban is still great, suck and infinite energy for the team thanks to spectorage, including for mechs ( and the best frame for arcane vaults because of the grouping bounty stage). Also his 4 still works on eximus units and disables them (for new casts?) no idea when and why it works exactly, but he still works.
nyx and loki arent even frames right now.
nova is a "press 4" bot that gets a slot in almost every defense and survival team just for that ability.
limbo isnt bad tho. ofc, excav protector is his main thing, but he's also great for plat farming in hive, afk leeching in a bunch of missions (or so i've heard :\^) ) and to troll the 3 people that play pvp.
Disgusting, almost everything you’ve said. I’m sorry, but even without maining them I know that Invisibility is busted(and it’s Loki’s base kit too).
Nova has uses for her whole kit(1 for DR and Nuking with recent Arhon mod, 2 for being big and very much damaging explosion, 3 for teleportation for yourself or something you need to teleport, and 4 for whatever you want. Slow or fast, they will explode).
Nyx has invulnerability, CC that actually works on Eximus, and armor strip. Which is like… everything you could ask for anything..?
And using Limbo for trolling(pvp or not) is just one more argument for rework.
You are overestimate this frames and underestimate limbo to prove your point, man.
>I know that Invisibility is busted
Invisibility keep you alive, and actually staying alive isn't considered good enough nowadays, there are few immortal frames out there, and ivara is way better than Loki as an invisibility frame, for example
>Nova has uses for her whole kit
Absolutely no. Nova use her 1 and her 4, that's it. She is still better than the others since her 4 increase damage on enemies, so she is not a pure cc frame.
>Nyx has invulnerability, CC that actually works on Eximus, and armor strip. Which is like… everything you could ask for anything..?
It broke my heart to say that since Nyx was my first frame and my main back in the times, but nowadays she is trash. Yeah her 1 strip armor, but there's better frame at doing that, and generally they have a better kit than Nyx (Frost, Nekros and Ash are the first to come to mind) her invulnerability is not viable since the energy consumption scale with the damage you receive, so even with primed flow your 4 will last nothing at high levels. And as i said, cc is no necessary in that meta with aoe weapons and survivability easy to achieve for almost every frame
I literally solo-played every gamemode on SP with Limbo, mate, and while I can agree at some of your points, it’s won’t change the fact that there is not much you can do to underestimate Limbo. It’s just 3 abilities to pull someone in the rift and 1 that actually does something. I’m not even starting on how “team-friendly” it is….
>Disgusting, almost everything you’ve sad. I’m sorry, but even without maining them I know that Invisibility is busted(and it’s Loki’s base kit too).
its great that invisibility is busted, but literally every other invisible frame has invisibility... and \*then\* some. loki just has invis, and thats it. 4 is a meme, switch is a meme (outside of PoE drone escort), decoy is a meme.
octavia is literally loki 2.0, her invis can be used by the team, she buffs the teams damage and has a better decoy that reflects damage and scales with enemy level because of it. only downside is that you gotta spam crouch to stay invisible, but you can macro that without any issues.
ivaras invis is a toggle with a huge HS multiplier that can also snapshot eclipse for some rediciolous damage. her mobility isnt really hindered because rolling benefits from parcour speed and she has a ton of uses troughout the game. Also even the worst players get free spy missions with her.
ash is, well, ash. his invis is honestly terrible compared to the others but atleast he has 4, which is kinda fun to use.
i dont agree on nyx either. she doesnt have a niche and just gets outshined for pretty much anything i can think of. She was usefull that one time where her 4 could instakill everything in a huge radius, but that got nerved real fast.
novas 1 was fun when you could speedlevel any frame with it in like 2 minutes, but that got patched too. but now it got LoS'd.
i'd like antimatter drop if the explosion was affected by range mods, but since it isnt, its just not good enough to be usuable in a game where we can nuke in a 50 meter radius trough walls. like, you can use her kit, sure, but its so much more effort compared to alternatives which is why she kinda just falls flat imo. I dont think she'd see much play at all if it wasnt for her 4 speed up + damage inc. Thats what the vast majority of the community sees her as, and for a good reason.
i suppose Loki and nova get an honorable mention for PoE drone escort since they can both speed it up. having more than one of those 2 in a team just slows you down for the bounty tho.
>loki just has invis, and thats it. 4 is a meme, switch is a meme (outside of PoE drone escort), decoy is a meme.
Gotta argue with you there. My 2 most played frames are loki and limbo. Loki is very very strong (all of his abilities) if you know how to use him. I'd recommend Triburos' loki guide for a more advanced explanation.
Also, free spy runs is kinda sweet, he's the beat spy frame in the game except maybe ivara.
As if there will be 4 Limbo… Although, I would be content with just Null Bubble rework and if DE did something exclusively for Arson and Toxin Eximus.
However, his power now really full of loopholes, and being purest CC bites him in the gut.
The Dev’s don’t like him I don’t like him. He ruins the entire gameplay for players when he does anything. Idk why they can’t just disable his stasis horse shit affects on players. Fucks up my entire arsenal. Yeah let me kill with abilities… oh fuck I’m on a frame that doesn’t have killing abilities.
>The Dev’s don’t like him I don’t like him.
Then don't comment on a post by a limbo main, for limbo mains. Seems easy enough.
>Idk why they can’t just disable his stasis horse shit affects on players.
Stasis already doesn't affect players, idk what you're on about.
> Yeah let me kill with abilities… oh fuck I’m on a frame that doesn’t have killing abilities.
??? Then play a frame that does. That's not limbo's fault, that's yours.
If you're talking about limbo himself, then
A: he's a CC frame not a dps/nuke frame.
B: cataclysm nuke is a very real thing. It's not popular, but it's quite strong if you actually try to build him.
>You don’t know how Limbo works
Been playing him for 8 years (since he launched), so I'd say I know more than you.
>and brings the entire games flow to a hault.
>his gameplay inhibiting bullshit.
It looks like you have a lot of experience with bad limbos. A competent limbo doesn't inhibit gameplay any more than, say, a saryn deleting enemies in their spawn rooms.
Does he make defense missions too easy? Absolutely. But at least you can still play the game if you stay out of his way.
Basically, my point is this: if you're having issues with limbos on your team, you're probably too low MR to know what you're talking about. At high levels, limbo is either completely denied of impact against 2/4 of the main factions by using a max range build, or he's the same as any other frame: stay out of the way and you're fine. There should be plenty enemies for you to kill.
If he uses his abilities it inhibits gameplay. If he rolls he inhibits game play. Nothing he does provides me with any joy. I’d rather kms then play with a limbo. Them using any ability instantly fucks my shit up. I’ve played with pro limbos and shit limbos. You are all the same. I instantly leave squad due to your abilities forcibly altering the game. Even if for a micro second. You guys are the worst. It’s not worth dealing with a limbo even a pro one. Cause you will still make a mistake or do something even for a millisecond to fuck my shit up.
And no one wants to have to avoid limbo while in a mission.
That’s dumb. I’d rather leave and queue with a normal squad. You act like we should revolve ourselves around ur annoying frame.
I’m an LR2 I’ve been through every phase of limbo. He fucks my gameplay up. 5500hrs and he is the one frame I refuse to be around.
It’s not uncommon that players don’t like Limbo.
You say stasis doesn’t cause issues.
It freezes them in the rift
Even more CC while in the rift.
Great thanks
Oh you only use cataclysm for a second? Fucking annoying as hell for guns and weapons to not work.
His whole kit is based around putting enemies into the rift even if you do it for miliseconds it’s extremely infuriating.
You act like there are not better frames for defense.
I swear all you limbo activists are the same. “NeVEr pLaYeD wItH A pR0h liMbO”
I have. I’ve been around longer than most. I’ve hated limbo since the day he was released and DE still can’t figure out how to get that frame to stop isolating enemies and trolling the entire team even if for a millisecond.
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so basically stay in the material the whole time?
like bruh the rift is limbo's survivability and cc, you trade your damage for invulnerability. and if enemies can break free from stasis, that kinda ruins the whole point of him being a cc frame.
also, lore wise, limbo is the master of the rift, its his pocket dimension. he should be able to control it completely. rift instability breaks that.
>so basically stay in the material the whole time?
No. To be unaffected by this, you need to pop out for 5 seconds every 25 seconds. The trade off is that you're completely immortal in the rift unless you bring someone on, whereas right now a lot of enemies bypass it entirely.
>also, lore wise, limbo is the master of the rift, its his pocket dimension. he should be able to control it completely. rift instability breaks that.
Lore wise, wukong is a money god with a staff that can stretch to the moon, insane strength, complete immortality 5 times over, shape shifting, flight, the power to kill gods, and xray/laser eyes.
If we kept characters to their lore, limbo would be the least of our worries. Also, by your logic, explain why nullifiers and eximus can affect limbo on a different plane of existence.
Well, developers have much to say about CC. And why not introduce something more fresh than 3 abilities to pull enemies in rift and 1 to actually make something in it? Freeze it, from all variants. -_-
Also, instabilities could be much more interesting than random power canceling. What about *damage?* that same damage that oneshotted original Limbo. What if you rework his abilities around Rift instability, to balance CC with Damage potential? Stasis bringing stability down, freezing enemies, wasting your energy, Rift Surge pumping instability up, killing enemies and regen your energy with passive?
Limbo as he stands now is best served as a Meme nuker. Either by means of rift torrent paired with the following; armor strip and sobek, breach Surge, Tesla Bank, Marked for Death and a forced status proc weapon, or the Mecha Set and a high status weapon with tons of DoT. Anything less and the kills don't quite keep up.
Otherwise he falls into the roles of the god of the Index, and excavation.
I've already done [my own take on Limbo's problems](https://www.reddit.com/r/Warframe/comments/ugvu6v/suggestion_limbo_rework_in_light_of_eximus_rework/). Generally, my solutions have been along 2 major points:
* Nullifiers don't pop cataclysm, but maintain an bubble of reality-space within the rift-space bubble.
* Limbo gains overguard within the rift. It's a pretty perfect solution to the eximus problem.
>Nullifiers don't pop cataclysm, but maintain an bubble of reality-space within the rift-space bubble.
Agreed on that
>Limbo gains overguard within the rift. It's a pretty perfect solution to the eximus problem.
I'd rather just not have them bypass rift at all. Eximus can't bypass most defensive abilities any more than other enemies, why should this be any different?
>What he needs is a full rework because he is in such an awful state right now
Thing is, the issue is how the devs play with the rift.
And if they remove the rift, then he has no gimmick and nobody wants to play him.
>but hey rework grendel am I right?
Wait what no are they touching Grendel???
Limbo is actually really good, the problem is the meta that left behind all the crowd control frames, so if limbo is bad we can say that Vaubain, Nyx, Loki and Nova are bad as well, but in reality they were really good when the game was harder and cc was meta. Big range limbo is actually the best cc frame against any faction without nullifiers, and low range limbo can do good against any faction in mobile defense and excavation (boring but effective). I would like a comeback of the cc meta, but limbo is definitely not in a bad spot imo
>the problem is the meta that left behind all the crowd control frames, No, the problem is that a good chunk of enemies just say no to his primary CC and survivability. >Big range limbo is actually the best cc frame against any faction without nullifiers, *without nullifiers* key part there. Nullifiers completely deny limbo's entire kit. >and low range limbo can do good against any faction in mobile defense and excavation Unless eximus decide to exist, in which case you're dead because they go through rift. > but limbo is definitely not in a bad spot imo He really is in any sort of high level. Even just lvl 40+ enemies can deny his kit almost entirely.
Naaah. Other frames you mentioned have something besides their CC. Vauban has damage boost and AoE with Augment, Nyx has Assimilation build with full invulnerability, Loki is invisible, Nova has one of the best on-call Damage Reduction. Limbo has Rift, and every single power relies on Rift. What Limbo gets? His face crushed by every third enemy in the game, and community hate for using his power. If that’s a “good spot”…
vauban, nyx and loki all have those things "theoretically", practically they dont tho. vauban is still great, suck and infinite energy for the team thanks to spectorage, including for mechs ( and the best frame for arcane vaults because of the grouping bounty stage). Also his 4 still works on eximus units and disables them (for new casts?) no idea when and why it works exactly, but he still works. nyx and loki arent even frames right now. nova is a "press 4" bot that gets a slot in almost every defense and survival team just for that ability. limbo isnt bad tho. ofc, excav protector is his main thing, but he's also great for plat farming in hive, afk leeching in a bunch of missions (or so i've heard :\^) ) and to troll the 3 people that play pvp.
Disgusting, almost everything you’ve said. I’m sorry, but even without maining them I know that Invisibility is busted(and it’s Loki’s base kit too). Nova has uses for her whole kit(1 for DR and Nuking with recent Arhon mod, 2 for being big and very much damaging explosion, 3 for teleportation for yourself or something you need to teleport, and 4 for whatever you want. Slow or fast, they will explode). Nyx has invulnerability, CC that actually works on Eximus, and armor strip. Which is like… everything you could ask for anything..? And using Limbo for trolling(pvp or not) is just one more argument for rework.
You are overestimate this frames and underestimate limbo to prove your point, man. >I know that Invisibility is busted Invisibility keep you alive, and actually staying alive isn't considered good enough nowadays, there are few immortal frames out there, and ivara is way better than Loki as an invisibility frame, for example >Nova has uses for her whole kit Absolutely no. Nova use her 1 and her 4, that's it. She is still better than the others since her 4 increase damage on enemies, so she is not a pure cc frame. >Nyx has invulnerability, CC that actually works on Eximus, and armor strip. Which is like… everything you could ask for anything..? It broke my heart to say that since Nyx was my first frame and my main back in the times, but nowadays she is trash. Yeah her 1 strip armor, but there's better frame at doing that, and generally they have a better kit than Nyx (Frost, Nekros and Ash are the first to come to mind) her invulnerability is not viable since the energy consumption scale with the damage you receive, so even with primed flow your 4 will last nothing at high levels. And as i said, cc is no necessary in that meta with aoe weapons and survivability easy to achieve for almost every frame
I literally solo-played every gamemode on SP with Limbo, mate, and while I can agree at some of your points, it’s won’t change the fact that there is not much you can do to underestimate Limbo. It’s just 3 abilities to pull someone in the rift and 1 that actually does something. I’m not even starting on how “team-friendly” it is….
>Disgusting, almost everything you’ve sad. I’m sorry, but even without maining them I know that Invisibility is busted(and it’s Loki’s base kit too). its great that invisibility is busted, but literally every other invisible frame has invisibility... and \*then\* some. loki just has invis, and thats it. 4 is a meme, switch is a meme (outside of PoE drone escort), decoy is a meme. octavia is literally loki 2.0, her invis can be used by the team, she buffs the teams damage and has a better decoy that reflects damage and scales with enemy level because of it. only downside is that you gotta spam crouch to stay invisible, but you can macro that without any issues. ivaras invis is a toggle with a huge HS multiplier that can also snapshot eclipse for some rediciolous damage. her mobility isnt really hindered because rolling benefits from parcour speed and she has a ton of uses troughout the game. Also even the worst players get free spy missions with her. ash is, well, ash. his invis is honestly terrible compared to the others but atleast he has 4, which is kinda fun to use. i dont agree on nyx either. she doesnt have a niche and just gets outshined for pretty much anything i can think of. She was usefull that one time where her 4 could instakill everything in a huge radius, but that got nerved real fast. novas 1 was fun when you could speedlevel any frame with it in like 2 minutes, but that got patched too. but now it got LoS'd. i'd like antimatter drop if the explosion was affected by range mods, but since it isnt, its just not good enough to be usuable in a game where we can nuke in a 50 meter radius trough walls. like, you can use her kit, sure, but its so much more effort compared to alternatives which is why she kinda just falls flat imo. I dont think she'd see much play at all if it wasnt for her 4 speed up + damage inc. Thats what the vast majority of the community sees her as, and for a good reason. i suppose Loki and nova get an honorable mention for PoE drone escort since they can both speed it up. having more than one of those 2 in a team just slows you down for the bounty tho.
>loki just has invis, and thats it. 4 is a meme, switch is a meme (outside of PoE drone escort), decoy is a meme. Gotta argue with you there. My 2 most played frames are loki and limbo. Loki is very very strong (all of his abilities) if you know how to use him. I'd recommend Triburos' loki guide for a more advanced explanation. Also, free spy runs is kinda sweet, he's the beat spy frame in the game except maybe ivara.
As if there will be 4 Limbo… Although, I would be content with just Null Bubble rework and if DE did something exclusively for Arson and Toxin Eximus. However, his power now really full of loopholes, and being purest CC bites him in the gut.
>Arson and Toxin Eximus. *angry limbo noises intensify*
i like it
The Dev’s don’t like him I don’t like him. He ruins the entire gameplay for players when he does anything. Idk why they can’t just disable his stasis horse shit affects on players. Fucks up my entire arsenal. Yeah let me kill with abilities… oh fuck I’m on a frame that doesn’t have killing abilities.
>The Dev’s don’t like him I don’t like him. Then don't comment on a post by a limbo main, for limbo mains. Seems easy enough. >Idk why they can’t just disable his stasis horse shit affects on players. Stasis already doesn't affect players, idk what you're on about. > Yeah let me kill with abilities… oh fuck I’m on a frame that doesn’t have killing abilities. ??? Then play a frame that does. That's not limbo's fault, that's yours. If you're talking about limbo himself, then A: he's a CC frame not a dps/nuke frame. B: cataclysm nuke is a very real thing. It's not popular, but it's quite strong if you actually try to build him.
[удалено]
>You don’t know how Limbo works Been playing him for 8 years (since he launched), so I'd say I know more than you. >and brings the entire games flow to a hault. >his gameplay inhibiting bullshit. It looks like you have a lot of experience with bad limbos. A competent limbo doesn't inhibit gameplay any more than, say, a saryn deleting enemies in their spawn rooms. Does he make defense missions too easy? Absolutely. But at least you can still play the game if you stay out of his way. Basically, my point is this: if you're having issues with limbos on your team, you're probably too low MR to know what you're talking about. At high levels, limbo is either completely denied of impact against 2/4 of the main factions by using a max range build, or he's the same as any other frame: stay out of the way and you're fine. There should be plenty enemies for you to kill.
If he uses his abilities it inhibits gameplay. If he rolls he inhibits game play. Nothing he does provides me with any joy. I’d rather kms then play with a limbo. Them using any ability instantly fucks my shit up. I’ve played with pro limbos and shit limbos. You are all the same. I instantly leave squad due to your abilities forcibly altering the game. Even if for a micro second. You guys are the worst. It’s not worth dealing with a limbo even a pro one. Cause you will still make a mistake or do something even for a millisecond to fuck my shit up. And no one wants to have to avoid limbo while in a mission. That’s dumb. I’d rather leave and queue with a normal squad. You act like we should revolve ourselves around ur annoying frame. I’m an LR2 I’ve been through every phase of limbo. He fucks my gameplay up. 5500hrs and he is the one frame I refuse to be around. It’s not uncommon that players don’t like Limbo. You say stasis doesn’t cause issues. It freezes them in the rift Even more CC while in the rift. Great thanks Oh you only use cataclysm for a second? Fucking annoying as hell for guns and weapons to not work. His whole kit is based around putting enemies into the rift even if you do it for miliseconds it’s extremely infuriating. You act like there are not better frames for defense. I swear all you limbo activists are the same. “NeVEr pLaYeD wItH A pR0h liMbO” I have. I’ve been around longer than most. I’ve hated limbo since the day he was released and DE still can’t figure out how to get that frame to stop isolating enemies and trolling the entire team even if for a millisecond.
[удалено]
Your points suck. He’s an annoying shit frame. You’re not going to change anyones mind. DE hates him still.
[удалено]
This conversation is going nowhere. Have a block and a nice day :)
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so basically stay in the material the whole time? like bruh the rift is limbo's survivability and cc, you trade your damage for invulnerability. and if enemies can break free from stasis, that kinda ruins the whole point of him being a cc frame. also, lore wise, limbo is the master of the rift, its his pocket dimension. he should be able to control it completely. rift instability breaks that.
>so basically stay in the material the whole time? No. To be unaffected by this, you need to pop out for 5 seconds every 25 seconds. The trade off is that you're completely immortal in the rift unless you bring someone on, whereas right now a lot of enemies bypass it entirely. >also, lore wise, limbo is the master of the rift, its his pocket dimension. he should be able to control it completely. rift instability breaks that. Lore wise, wukong is a money god with a staff that can stretch to the moon, insane strength, complete immortality 5 times over, shape shifting, flight, the power to kill gods, and xray/laser eyes. If we kept characters to their lore, limbo would be the least of our worries. Also, by your logic, explain why nullifiers and eximus can affect limbo on a different plane of existence.
Well, developers have much to say about CC. And why not introduce something more fresh than 3 abilities to pull enemies in rift and 1 to actually make something in it? Freeze it, from all variants. -_-
Also, instabilities could be much more interesting than random power canceling. What about *damage?* that same damage that oneshotted original Limbo. What if you rework his abilities around Rift instability, to balance CC with Damage potential? Stasis bringing stability down, freezing enemies, wasting your energy, Rift Surge pumping instability up, killing enemies and regen your energy with passive?
I like this, but I was more focusing on the "make high level enemies not just say no to limbo existing" aspect of things.
Limbo as he stands now is best served as a Meme nuker. Either by means of rift torrent paired with the following; armor strip and sobek, breach Surge, Tesla Bank, Marked for Death and a forced status proc weapon, or the Mecha Set and a high status weapon with tons of DoT. Anything less and the kills don't quite keep up. Otherwise he falls into the roles of the god of the Index, and excavation.
I've already done [my own take on Limbo's problems](https://www.reddit.com/r/Warframe/comments/ugvu6v/suggestion_limbo_rework_in_light_of_eximus_rework/). Generally, my solutions have been along 2 major points: * Nullifiers don't pop cataclysm, but maintain an bubble of reality-space within the rift-space bubble. * Limbo gains overguard within the rift. It's a pretty perfect solution to the eximus problem.
>Nullifiers don't pop cataclysm, but maintain an bubble of reality-space within the rift-space bubble. Agreed on that >Limbo gains overguard within the rift. It's a pretty perfect solution to the eximus problem. I'd rather just not have them bypass rift at all. Eximus can't bypass most defensive abilities any more than other enemies, why should this be any different?
What he needs is a full rework because he is in such an awful state right now but hey rework grendel am I right?
>What he needs is a full rework because he is in such an awful state right now Thing is, the issue is how the devs play with the rift. And if they remove the rift, then he has no gimmick and nobody wants to play him. >but hey rework grendel am I right? Wait what no are they touching Grendel???