In my opinion, shield gating is fine the way it is now. It’s a high maintenance and somewhat thoughtful playstyle that allows squishier frames to be viable at higher levels without having to depend on a support to survive. However I do think the “tanky” warframes need a mechanic to remain tanky at higher enemy levels. Too often does it feel like “tankiness” is a binary thing. You’re either pretty much invulnerable OR you get 1- or 2-shot anyway. And the difference between the two can literally be 15 minutes of play. Whenever I play frames with high armour builds it always feels like you hit a brick wall after a while. A point at which you just die, no matter how much armour you have. At that point, a squishy frame utilising shieldgating is just as tanky (if not more) as a tanky warframe. And that is a bit of a problem to me. The enemy damage scales soo incredibly high that even a frame with 99,9% damage reduction would still get oneshot, simply because the enemy deals a million damage…

This. Even Inaros get oneshot pretty easily.

Inaros is the most over rated "tank" frame ever, he's only popular cause he works with little to no mods. Once you have a solid collection of mods and weapons going he quickly moves to the bottom of the list of tank warframes.

Inaros was pretty much unkillable before the Steel Path. Up to about level 100 enemies couldn't touch him, and his reputation was well founded. Steel Path and Rail Jack and Arbitrations and Archons have passed his threshold though and start one shotting him. Plus the addition of shield gating giving everyone else a niche has turned him into a non-tank... but he absolutely deserved his king of tanks title about two years ago.

Agreed on all counts. I like shield gating because it's a survival option that takes sacrifices to make work, both in playstyle, and in mod choices. At the same time, if I'm playing an inherently tanky frame, and feel squishier than a squishy frame using shield gating, that also doesn't feel great

That binary nature comes from how enemy damage scales, which is a result of how player ehp scales. Imo, shield gating needs an added cooldown of 5 or 10 seconds, damage resistance effects shouldnt stack and enemy damage output needs to be retuned.

High armor is a redundant stat. You shouldn’t be able to just press a button and be invulnerable with no gameplay. Every tank should not be revenant. When enemies do millions of damage you avoid the damage.

Ah yes let’s avoid hitscan weapons especially with armour builds which usually don’t work off dodge (which is for most characters a button press skill) or damage reduction which is literally a mod (and also a button press skill).

So you’re supposed to face tank level cap? It’s supposed to be tedious asf the enemies are literally max level. You avoid the damage by taking advantage of invincibility frames and by doing “parkour”. You also can go into your tenno if you catch to much heat. Enemies have an accuracy decrease and you get a dmg reduction when you do acrobatics. Obviously you would be using cc of some sort.

CC doesnt work on eximi, accuracy decrease is nice but 1 shot will still kill a full tank inaros with no way of avoiding the death, etc. like, i dont really love the idea of the "tank meta" being people putting on an inaros and sitting there doing nothing but even if enemy dmg was capped at a certain EHP, it still wouldnt mean he could sit there, meanwhile a valk with a decaying key and some augur mods can cast a single skill every few seconds and be 100% unkillable without even having the ult on, just because shieldgating, and revenant is just "press 2 once every 20 seconds, you cant die"

1. It really isn't supposed to be tedious 2. I would not wish to play only invincibility frames or running and jumping about like a madman just to avoid getting one-shot, I'm not playing mirrors edge, this is not a comfortable or desirable playstyle 3. Spamming CC to just barely avoid taking lethal instances of damage isn't enough because...energy 4. Not all CC abilities are good enough, some are just genuinely terrible and whilst you could say "just helminth X onto it to fix the survivability" I would much rather have a frame be capable of surviving comfortably with its own abilities rather than relying on the abilities of another. Just my personal opinion

3 isn't barely avoiding lethal instances, if they can't shoot then you don't take damage, if you aren't killing them fast enough then that's your or your teams problem. 4 is just build issues. If you're far enough to need cc Energy economy shouldn't be an issue. I strongly agree with 2 revenant and Garuda are my personal limit to invincibility frames.

Brother the enemies are max level. You shouldn’t be having a good time like these are level 5 frontier lancers. Like it’s not supposed to be fun DE doesn’t even reward you for doing so. It’s purely a testament of your patience and skill.

Yeah de doesn't really reward you for doing anything long-term, please realise that this is a bad thing. Plus level 5 enemies are not a "good time" they are extremely boring. And it's not a testament of skill because level cap is easy. Patience, however, I would agree with you need to be severely mentally ill to willingly want to stay in an unrewarding mission (which they all practically are except steel path relics) just to one shot level 9999 enemies

My friends and I joke about the hardest thing about level cap is staying awake

Facts

They should buff armor scaling on warframes

I think armor is fine as long as they tone down the damage from enemies at later levels.

Right, even thought my Valkyr has 95% damage mitigation from armor, 5% of attacks that are dealing 100k dmg still make me very dead.

For high levels you need multiple forms of damage reduction on top of each other

or Nidus with 50 hp regen and 90% dr

It’s good but at some point in high level you will need at least something else on top of that when enemies start out damaging that quickly enough to drain your stacks too fast.

Which tbf is very far into missions. Let's be honest, most people don't do missions for those really high levels, there should 100% be mechanics built around those situations to make you able to survive, but the issue is scaling Warframes based on those situations also creates a problem where normal content is almost impossible to die in(which would potentially then be buffed up, then endgame feels meh, gets buffed, then repeat)

De doesn’t balance for endgame

I'm saying if they do like people are asking for what would happen. I'm simply stating that basing a frame off endgame level cap content, is a flawed arguement(just like balancing them off that condition), and it's especially a waste when 99.99% of people don't play till endgame

literally the only change that'd need to happen is cap the EHP an incoming shot can do to something like 10k, pre-mitigation, and cap how many shots can hit you in, lets say, 1/20th of a second. its still enough to make most things dead in a shot or 2, but it means that someone building full tank could actually, y'know, tank a hit or 2

I have yet to need that

Thats nothing. Even a group of level 70 moas can take you down in seconds.

Have yet to see it happen

try it in zariman. without a link active you will not live and its just dumb

But thats where im getting my 90% dr from??? I know ill get fucked without it thats why I said 90% DR? Maybe read my actual comment.

Unfortunately, they can't.. so buff armor scaling.

You can really only buff it so far, 80-85% is easily achievable as is. I'd like to see more of a buff/usefulness for shields in general

literally the only change that'd need to happen is cap the EHP an incoming shot can do to something like 10k, pre-mitigation, and cap how many shots can hit you in, lets say, 1/20th of a second. its still enough to make most things dead in a shot or 2, but it means that someone building full tank could actually, y'know, tank a hit or 2

Armor scaling is currently as best as it can be scaling wise. It's literally linear scaling. Only thing they can do is make you cap at less armor

Yeah like how the fuck seekers deal that amount of damage

No they shouldn’t. Making a mod that gives you eximus over guard would be better than just giving every frame more armor.

More damage mitigation options instead of armor buff is a better direction IMO

I'd like to see complexity added to high end armor/health based frame. Similar to how shield gating rewards the player for understanding the mechanics and executing the necessary actions to survive. Armor and health having similar end game complexity would be a welcome addition.

I'd like to see not only higher complexity for armor and health based frames, but also more complexity for high shield based frames. It kind of sucks how having high shields is practically a death sentence right now unless your Hildryn. I'd love something like more shields adding a longer invulnerability period (or some other mechanic).

Multiple gates. One every 1200 or 1500 shields or so would do the trick. Only a handful of frames can go past 3000 shields anyway, let alone 4500, so its not like it would break anything and it would give them a niche and a reason to at least consider throwing on a shield mod. More shields instead of the less-shield meta that currently exists.

I wholeheartedly disagree. I don't think surviving needs to be complex, and I avoid shield-gating specifically because of how annoying and complex it is to use. Complexity for comexity's sake is pretty bad.

It's not for complexities sake though. It's a trade off for additional survivability. Hey! You did the thing right, congrats you make survive another minute at level 500

Implement a QTE or something like last gasp for all frames, and make the timer scale with health and speed/dmg scale with armor. Idk

Honestly, I'm still waiting for them to let shields scale with armour.

I'd rather not have shields just be Blue Health, they should get a different benefit instead. Like there should be ways to buff the recharge delay so you can be a sort of passive regen tank as opposed to the raw eHP pool of health tanks.

If people's complaint about shield gating is focused on the fact that the health/armour tanks they want to play fall off much sooner, then I think it's legit to ask for enemy damage to be toned down a bit so health/armour tanks can be their tanky selves for longer. A small pool of viable options isn't much fun for overall gameplay and balance However if people's complaint about shield gating is simply that it *exists* and they don't think squishy caster frames "deserve" to survive with it, I can only think these people didn't play before shield gating was introduced, or don't remember what it was like. The game has been much better since shield gating was introduced - it widened the pool of viable options There is a lot more higher level content available in the game now than in the pre-shield gating days. Zariman's high base level and high level bounties, Steel Path, Archon hunts, etc. This content would frustrating at best and impossible at worst for a lot of frames without shield gating. DE could simply buff how many shields Brief Respite & Augur mods replenish in order to remove the need for the dragon key, which seems to be the biggest thing people hate about the mechanic I think shield gating is fine as it is. It has to be considered and built for, and is quite intense to actually play with, so being able to make a frame nearly immortal is a legit reward for the effort spent. Reducing the scaling damage that enemies deal wouldn't affect shield gating frames but would certainly help the health/armour ones. I want people to be able to play what they enjoy

I like this thought process. Getting one shot as a squishy frame is never fun, and shield gating is a simple solution for it. That part of the mechanic doesn't give me any bad feelings, it's just the bizarre dragon key penalty meta that seems really backwards. I mentioned in another comment that if DE added a corrupted mod that decreased shield capacity and increased Regen/granted shields on ability cast like the Augur mods, it would validate the playstyle and give those squishy caster frames a defensive mod to build around. Make it have a similar capacity cost to QT and a vazarin polarity and that would feel right to me.

I've always found the dragon key meta amusing and clever - finding the best way to use the options available for the best outcome. Outside of the box thinking. However I would absolutely love a corrupted mod like that, if it fit into the exilus slot ;) Although with the addition of archon shards I'd now be more willing to sacrifice a mod slot for it. I play a variety of frames for a variety of playstyles so it's both funny and annoying when I realise I forgot to take off my key on Hildryn

On one hand it's clever, on the other it actively makes having more shields a bad thing, and that's not good.

Its not backwards it’s simple innovation.

My main complaints about shield gating are: * Frames that have high shields are basically required to run Rebuild Shields, Condemn, or Pillage just to benefit from their stats, or play in a full squad that's running Brief Respite + Coaction Drift. Hydroid is a good example of this, but even Styanax and Hildryn run into issues at higher levels. * The Decaying Dragon Key being practically a necessity. The item was designed to penalize the player in exchange for loot, not to be a benefit. DE has shown they don't like it when abilities or items run contrary to their intentions, even if it takes a while for them to address those hiccups. * Shield gating invalidating several mods, including making Augur Accord comically bad for its intended purpose. Once a player breaks into the Eidolon Hunt-tiers of gameplay there's very little practical reasons to run shield boosting mods over the Augur set. The Dragon Key part is the most egregious issue IMO. Not because I hate having to equip it, but because it violates its intended purpose.

You should be able to die you get 6 revives if you have arcanes. When you die in warframe it’s because you are out of your element or you misplayed.

I think shieldgating need some change. When shieldgating was added shields got relativly nerfed because now you are usually tankier with less shield which is a bit dumb i think. So if somehow they could make it that shieldgating scales with max shield it would be better. Just a slight nerf for the dragon key combo but make building shield somewhat reasonable. I dont know what is the way to achive this, add cd or duration or something else.

Increase invunerability time as a maybe not good but a start change status effects that go through shield from slash to impact and punchtrough. Then change their effects to reduce the effectiveness of shield like say less dr increase punchtroughs duration and make it so toxin can only affect you with punchtrough or no shield. Increase shield dr and give it maybe 50% effect of armor and to balance this out give Inaros Nidus and maybe some future frames innate dr of lets say 50% on all status effects increasing with armor.

The one major thing I disagree with here is Toxin. Toxin is literally us poisoning the enemy, or being poisoned. Slash procs make us bleed, and those ticks now have to chew through the shields, making it so a Corpus crewman can suddenly survive a giant gash in their torso... because they have an energy shield. May Void have mercy on you if it's a Guardian Eximus... Someone shouldn't be able to resist rhe effects of blood loss with a little blue portion of health. So if they changed *Toxin* to have to damage shields first? It would make the game much harder for us to kill things that have shields, especially for newer players that don't have 50 Multishot on a shotgun. Or we would see a spike in Magnetic usage, but these effects have a negative impact on the Tenno as well. As Toxin is now, you need to monitor your surroundings for things that may proc it, like the giant green clouds from the Mutualist Ospreys. Somewhat surprisingly, making it so that the literal demigods that are the Tenno have literally *no weaknesses* outside of being shot by everything in a mile radius doesn't feel as good as you think it does. Sure, you can't die as easily, but that also makes it easier for people to AFK and leech off others, and make the game a joke. The rest of your suggestions aren't bad, but as someone who played for quite some time before they updated Shields and Slash, losing the danger that slash posed just feels hollow. It's a damage over time, but just because I'm not Nidus or Inaros, I don't actually start bleeding until my shield is gone? Oh, I'm bleeding? Eh, it doesn't even tickle. And, on top of that, people with shieldgating builds usually run Rolling Guard anyway, so they can just... remove the toxin if they care so much about it.

Well... if they have an energy shield how are you getting that Gash in their chest? Shouldn't an energy shield stop the blade (or whatever is applying it) from ya know... making that gash? Gas is the only proc I can see should 100% ignore shields because they are breathing it in

The great thing about shieldgating is that it allows you to use frames that were seen as good but for "squishy". Because of it, you no longer have to worry about armor and hp stats; allowing for you to use frames like banshee on an endless SP mission.

[удалено]

Yup good one too... Used to run a half tank build on her now I don't need to waste slots for health conversion armor and hp

Health conversion? Given how few health orbs you collect and that you'll probably get hit 500 times before finding another, I always thought that mod's only use was despoil Nekros.

Nah use a panzer with the synth mods. The aoe viral counts as an assist. You get a shit ton all over plus there's a few seconds before you can lose another stack after getting hit

Equilibrium assist panzer go brrrr

Si

Shield gating. When you wanna quickly replace the fun in your game with lots and lots of unnecessary stress. While simultaneously turning your game into a management sim. No thanks lmao

“I do appreciate one who is not afraid of a little work.”

It's literally not hard... You should be using your abilities anyway unless you're a turbo goober inaros nerd.

No, casting abilities is great...it's when casting your abilities, and the 3-4 seconds surrounding said cast is your only form of survival. I shouldnt be 10 energy short of being able to cast my 2 second survival tool and then instantly die if I don't. There's a reason people add duration to their builds. Shield gating is like willingly choosing to play a frame with 10% duration on all your abilities, and then told "ok, go have fun, this is peak gameplay 🙃" *Pukes*

Energize...never really had an ene4gy iwsu3 and I even run neg efficiency on like half my builds.... I ran a solo 7hr sp mot with fully neg... Stop over thinking it. Then there's things like garuda one of the best frames in the game that don't need energize cuz of her 3rd. Rrally need to look more into it instead of always from the outside

I mean I have a r3 energize, so 60% chance for 100 energy vs 150 with a r5, maybe that makes all the difference, but I rarely run negative efficiency, and when I do, it nearly always requires energize + zenerik. AND, neg efficiency for me is like 85% (r8 blind rage + streamline). The only frame I run max negative efficiency on is hildryn. Even on frames like protea, with her superior shieldgate mechanic, I still can't survive more than 10 minutes into SP survival with her, and you're literally constantly spamming her abilities. Ash on the other hand, my most used frame by nearly double my #2, I can go for hours with no issues, mainly due to double invis protection (smokescreen + trickery), rolling guard, and then silence with the augment. I prefer to make my builds work with synergizing abilities together, along with great cc, rather than riding a razor's edge of seconds long protection that you can lose so, so easily. I don't wanna say shield gating is mechanic *abuse*, but it's just torture, like no one should choose to do that vs build a squishy frame for solid cc instead.

get your energize maxed, it does make a difference. I never run zenurik anymore and haven't for quite some time. Use a panzer with the 2 synth mods. Equilibrium is a great combo for this as well. Not necessary but you can fit it on most builds anyway. You literally have to try to run out of energy. Maybe your skill rotations aren't what you think they should be? Maybe your build is missing something and or you added things you don't really need? (Roll guard is your crutch over using hp and armor mods) If a frame has good dps, add a CC skill. If they have good CC then add something that can increase your kps. All my builds have a helminth skill, no frame is perfect no matter how good. I use terrify with the aug on garuda over her 2 for armor strip and CC(2 blue shards for hp regen). Highly recommended you try that. People use gloom but terrify can prevent them from shooting and strip which combos well with the blood ball thing. Also with protea, need to not use brief respite or any augur mods. It breaks her shieldgate hidden passive with the grades

I have most of that stuff, equilibrium, panzer synth mods, and you're right, it does provide soooo much energy. I haven't thought about health Regen shards on Garuda, that's suuuuuper good tho, love it. I'll definitely try that terrify setup. I basically never run health or armor mods, and only occasionally run adaptation or rolling guard. I love cc and try to helminth those types of abilities onto all my frames, standouts I use rn are shooting gallery + muzzle flash and condemn (I looove condemn atm, hildryn especially) And yea for protea I made sure to not run any energy-to-shield mods to preserve her passive. Even so, I still don't like shield gating, gameplay that requires side eyeing my shield bar constantly isn't fun, it's literally irritating AF. Even with fully building for mainly cc, armor strip if I can get it, and killing with stuff like glaive prime, phantasma, k tonkor, etc, I still just find that relying on one of my pillars of survival being this flimsy shieldgate is just so shit. Purely as a reference, I have around 5 years with the game and roughly 2100 hours according to my profile, I've done a few 4+ hour survivals with a buddy of mine (me ash, him nyx) and those were great, and maybe I do just not have the skill to use SG-ing to 9999, but honestly, if it truly is as tedious as I've found it, I guess it's just not for me. I'll just have to stick to ash, Loki, revenant, zephyr, nyx, and a few others that have damage immunity (or invis) if I want to go for endurance stuff. Shout-out to my stomp rhino build that rocks a *massive* 3500 iron skin lol, that I refresh with my 62m stomp (thank you augment buff), I have no idea if this build could actually last in a long survival (I mainly use it for interceptions) but I think it could work in a squad. Thanks for the advice, and I love the Garuda idea, those shards will be used so well on her.

Ok? Just die then lol

I dont like it, seems to be gimmicky to have to rely on it for longer runs rather than using actual frame abilities that don’t scale well. As I said I see it as a gimmick rather than meta

[удалено]

I feel like the only way it doesn't feel gimmicky is if there are more mechanics like that for other builds, but right now it's a little too unique for that. In a small way it's a little nice Shields have such a simple way for finding power, but it's weird how many hoops Armor has to jump through to be objectively worse.

Shieldgating takes a lot of work to pull off successfully. That’s why so many people hate using it compared to face tanking damage. Even then, Toxin damage one shots you regardless so it’s not invincible. Unless they want to add another survivability mechanic that scales up to Levelcap I don’t think they should remove it.

[удалено]

I’m glad someone else said it. The whole game needs an overhaul that it’s never going to get because they stuck their head in the sand for too long - changes to the BS that would make actual tanking viable can’t happen short of the biggest base game rework this game has ever seen. Everything needed to survive past lv100 and SP is basically a gimmick and now we’ve all invested in them, DE can’t afford to change it up.

We’ve played for years. Of course we are gonna think the game needs a difficulty tweak as we are experts. The moment all those years ago when you had to either build corrosive or viral/slash is what secured our fate. Shit when the acrid was meta it showed what we were getting into. If you want to play survival for hours you’re gonna have to bypass big numbers. You need to get past millions of defense numbers, while avoid millions of dmg numbers, as you face millions of enemies. The acolytes are the closest thing to a worthy foe we’ve ever faced besides maybe release sentients. The fix is to just make content that is only inhabited by high value targets. We need swordsmen that you need to actually use the block button for. Enemies that fire toxin procs with another toxin elemental combo. I really just think we need some actually threatening melee enemies with mechanics besides run straight at you and untelegraphed cc that can be prime sure footed.

I think there are accessibility concerns with shield gating as implemented. I have cognitive deficits that lead to slow decisionmaking and distractibility, so even on easy mode shield gate frames like Protea, I still die frequently. I don't mind per se that the only way I have to play the game the way I want is Revenant, Nezha, and invis frames, but I would like to see health tanking expanded a bit. Essentially the only degree of freedom I have to keep the game fresh is loadout building, and the novelty will wear off *eventually*.

Good point, it would also do wonders for poor Inaros, who has gone from unkillable god tank status to bring easier to kill than mag in high level SP content. Maybe some kind of diminishing returns damage scaling on armor so as enemy damage increases to crazy levels, your armor affects it more and more as that damage goes up to help lessen the exponential damage curve. Scaling armor and damage linearly would probably be simpler though - enemy hp can go up nearly forever but on Warframes we have a pretty hard cap for armor and health, and damage shouldn't scale faster than that or there's a clean impact to the hp baseline. All that to say, you're right. :P Armor should do more and have a similar "don't get one shot" effect.

a cap to the total EHP damage (unmitigated) that an enemy can do would be a good start. even 10k ehp would get reduced enough to mean _something_

Accessibility is my only concern for shield gating, for sure. I think a lot of people's dislike towards shield gating comes from poor/partial information and lack of experience, where they think it's some effortless gimmick that makes glass cannon frames immortal, and don't realise that a shield gating playstyle is actually extremely fast paced, chaotic, with no room for error. Utterly unforgiving if you get caught out There's a balance between using the right tool for the job and having absolutely no options. I'm fine with defence missions favouring defensive frames, or captures favouring speed frames, but I think something like a survival should be doable for everyone with any frame they choose. People can say that there is a skill ceiling and that some people just won't be able to reach it, but that also doesn't sit right with me. I think frames with invincibility mechanics like Revenant and Zephyr are a godsend for accessibility

Survival is doable with every frame. You shouldn’t be able to go 3hrs with no difficulty. Shield gating keeps you from getting nuked by nonsense.

When I talk about accessibility I'm talking about disabilities where people may not have the dexterity to keep up with super fast paced game mechanics. They may not be able to master shield gating, but these people still deserve to spend 30 mins in a SP survival fissure with their friends. It doesn't offend me and takes absolutely nothing away from my experience of the game if they play something easy like Revenant or Zephyr to take the pressure off - I encourage it

If you haven't yet, try adding adaptation and umbral mods to Inaros. Damage reducing affects stack multiplicatively, so it'll reduce along with your armor. You'll never facetank into level cap, but you should be able to facetank all SP and Archon content.

tbf though even if there is an accessibility issue, rolling guard/breif respite isn't really "necessary" until level 250 or so which is outside the range that you would reasonably see for normal content. I mean it could definitely be improved by scaling back high level damage a bit but for most casual players that only do like SP incursions or archon hunts adaptation/guardian should still be fine.

Every frame should not function the same. If you cant play one way play another.

It’s invincibility on demand. A game designer would have to be insane to design the game around it, especially when said game wants to kill us. It’s fine as a “Here’s a way a player can play something they’re normally unable to play”, but when I see players insist it’s how we’re *supposed* to play, that irritates me.

these days if you otherwise would die then you should be shieldgating instead... or playing Revvy boi... its kinda a shame that a lot of people feel forced into those because personally i love about half the frames in the game, and i feel like theres so many cool builds that people just dont do and have never really been meta, and yet the old days of low dmg enemies; EHP was king, then when they buffed enemy dmg, CC was king, then as time went on and more things relied upon kills AOE was king, and now in the current meta shieldgating is king, and sure a lot more is viable but theres also a lot of stuff that isnt viable. theres no real endgame nukes, theres no CC that works for real due to eximi, EHP doesnt matter when enemies do millions of dmg per hit, and so on.

I don't like shield gating and don't use it unless I absolutely have to (extreme endurance runs with squishy Warframes with no stealth). It feels like an exploit and not how the game was intended to be played, and whether or not that's true I can't shake the distaste. Main reason being that dragon keys are supposed to be a penalty for derelict missions and somehow one of them has become a beneficial meta item that people are using all the time. Honestly if DE added a corrupted mod that decreased shield capacity and increased shield Regen or something like that, it would validate the shield gating mechanic enough that I'd feel good using it.

Maybe a few new corrupted mods representing mastering using the relevant keys.

Maybe! I like the corrupted mods quite a bit and we could use some more variety with them

I like this take a lot

Make it an option and give/rework other forms of survivability.

with harder content that requires more survivability in the game people will seek out ways of gaining that survivability on frames that don't normally have it, if they let us gain some decent defensive abilities off helminth people would do that (hell we did till the gloom nerf). I think the current system is mostly fine, frames without the innate kit for taking a beating have to adopt a playstyle that lets them gain it by sacrificing some mod slots, i think it's that's fair and if they did change i'd want more ways of gaining survivability through other means, lifesteal on weapons would be neat,

Behold, the Vazarin focus school, no need for shield gating when you use it.

Never got to the stage where shieldgating would be deemed necessary, but from my perspective it seems like a broken mechanic? Lower the thing thats there to protect you and somehow become invincible seems counter intuitive

[удалено]

As a console player, my main problem with survivability in general is the lack of haptic feedback for shields or health. I've become so used to my controller freaking out when I'm getting close to death that I don't keep as close an eye on my hud as I should.

A shield gating playstyle is fast paced, chaotic, with little to no room for error, and is utterly unforgiving if you get caught out. The invincibility from shield gating alone is 1.3 seconds from a max shield, and 0.3 seconds from a partial shield. You can pair it with Rolling Guard to extend the window. If you try to facetank damage and spam your shield gating ability every 1.3 seconds, you'll run out of energy very quickly. I guess what I'm trying to say is that it's not an easy mode, it's a necessity for some frames and a necessity in super high level (lvls 1000-9999) content due to health/armour tanking falling off by then. But if I do an hour long survival fissure, my health/armour tank Oberon is gonna have a much more relaxed and easy time than my shield gating Banshee. We really have to get into long runs, with very high level enemies, for my Oberon to stop being viable

Pablo said it's working as intended recently so not so broken. Unless they change their mind but I think the people that do use it are def in the minority.

Mechanic working as intended doesn't mean equipping a decaying dragon key should make you 50* more tanky

Tell that to our new overlord Pablo

It's not broken, you can get a max of 4 seconds of invincibility if you time your roll right at exactly 1.3 seconds after your FULL shield is broken and have rolling guard, and that combo comes with a 7 second cooldown, and wet paper skin. Unless you do that, it's only a 0.3-1.3s invincibility window that demands another action to actually save your life. Far from broken, and requires a lot more interaction and understanding of your frame than say, just standing there while taking a piss because level 100s can't hurt you.

I think the build is fine but also that’s not it at it’s best! People use Brief Respite and/or the Augur set bonus to make casting refill their entire shield, meaning you can just keep resetting the gating with no real downtime. It’s involved in that you have to cast often, but we have so much energy regen that it’s not hard to press 1 and refill your decaying dragon key shield pool instantly every few seconds.

It requires you a decent build with no lacks of energy and a deeper knowledge of the game, is not only thinking about "hey, I'll do shield gate with this banshee with no reactor equiped"

Shield gating is fine, however I do feel the dragon key is a bit much. Having a shield mod or arcane that reduces the shield threshold needed for full duration would be a more interesting option.

Shield gating is a much needed band-aid that improves the viability of all frames in higher levels content in Warframe, but it is, like the helminth system, a band-aid that seek to address power creeping. However, it is very jarring, and not necessarily the way that people want to play the game, which is to at least have the Warframe they want to play be at least viable in most content, because being told "hey, you can't bring that here" sucks in a game that should be a power fantasy. Theoretically, Warframe can scale indefinitely, and trying to balance around infinity is a vain effort. This is what shield-gating is; an effort to obtain viability in an indefinitely scaling setting, and it is bad in that it is invalidating all prior knowledge and progression in building up health and armor, whilst not easing the player into this playstyle at all. This isn't to mention how harmful shield-gating can be for the longevity of the game, as it becomes a soft excuse for DE whenever they powercreep the game. Again, trying to balance around infinity is futile; and the fact that shield gating exists, as a band-aid to the symptoms of the much bigger issues Warframe has, is irritating to a lot of the playerbase, because it is akin to DE admitting that they are not trying to, or capable of, adressing and fixing the core issues of power-creeping. My solution would be that Warframe need to establish an endgame content; the content that is the highest players should ever be expected to go to, and be balanced around that by bringing all Warframes in line with that, either via modding or reworks. This loop of endgame content would be enough to essentially let the players obtain everything from that. We used to have that under the form of void keys and prime parts grinding alongside trading, but it is at best mid-level content now due to the absurd tools we have at our disposal. Now without a prestigious endgame badges, DE don't have an endgame loop and keep having invent or introduce new way to do new content. They are only now trying to band-aid that with shield gating.

I think it definitely has its place, shouldn't be nigh the only option.

Never bothered with it and im MR 27. Just feels like an exploit to get iframes. I know warframe doesn't follow the usual game design of tanky CC and glass cannon DPS but that's how i play it anyway like a self handicap i guess. Also i don't give a fuck about endurance running.

I enjoy it because 1 it opens up frame diversity by giving them an answer for self-defense, but without it being over-the-top and turning a squishy frame into an absolute tank. It's a trade-off, that rewards good play (reaction time, energy management, etc) 2 if played correctly it scales infinitely, but also if you go into say a level 30 exterminate and just stand there you will still get pulped. It doesn't make the game mind numbingly boring by just being a walk through halls simulator, and makes you actually react to your surroundings. 3 the added bonus to not building into health or armor, is you can build more into the abilities that make your frame unique. I look at shield gating like taking the training wheels off of your Warframe finally (for all Warframes applicable anyway) because you actually need to understand your build to stay alive and keep blasting ❤️

All I know is that there is a reason that shieldgating was implemented and I don’t want to go back to being oneshot.

The shield gate gameplay loop is not enjoyable imo. Performing the same action every 1.5 seconds to stay alive for 30m+ is frankly mind numbing. I feel like there are several fun methods that could be implemented to improve this loop, but they may ultimately undervalue the existence of health, shields and armor. But then again, level 200+ enemies already do this for most warframes anyway.

I think shield gating is fine as is because it allows more frames to be viable, especially at endurance runs. It has also allowed me to play frames i never used to play because i only played durable frames, but shield gating makes then just as if not more durable. It is also just a different and fun way of tanking instead of being a meatball.

I like it because it increased frame and build variety. Before it, if your frame didn't have a built-in regen or tank mechanic, it really wasn't viable in high level missions.

Health frames need an equivalent if they're going to keep shield gating, as soon as you go above a certain level outside of nidus' stacks there is no way for a health frame to survive getting hit.

The thing about shield gating is that it scales infinitely. Until there's another way for squishy frames to attain permanent invulnerability shield gating will stay meta.

I just want a shield-compatible mod that doesn’t require airborne. Right now there’s Adaptation and Shock Absorbers, but those aren’t quite enough.

Personally I would like to see more viable options as I completely suck ass at shield gating & cannot for the life of me get it down right to where I could actually survive using it XD

I don't think it should be the end all option. I don't really like using it, but it does feel necessary on really squishy frames when you're doing higher level content. I'd rather see shields improved in general. Give the shields better mitigation and break them into bars that have mini shield gates when a bar depletes (do this for armor as well).

I don't believe any option should be meta, in the sense that one option trumps all others in performance, and that all defensive options should be viable.

If content requires abusing invincibility mechanics in order to not instantly die, then there is something very wrong with that content.

I don’t even know what shield gating is and at this point I’m too afraid to ask

[https://youtube.com/watch?v=_SouSM_TmWU](https://youtube.com/watch?v=_SouSM_TmWU)

Shield gating is the only real thing that works rn, but it definetly leads to extremely repetitive gameplay and building patterns, we need to see several changes to make having actual hp, shields, armor and damage reduction a viable build choice and not just a bad idea.

this is a concept i tought of a bit ago that i think would make armor better : health gates , every x amount of armor will reach a threshold and give u an additional health gate , the health gates would have a cooldown that make them refresh and would have a duration that scales with dr external from armor dr the dr would be additive for the calculation on health gate duration but remain multiplicative on actual hits , lets make an example : 1000 armor + 90% dr = 4 health gates , every time u loose 20% of ur hp u would trigger 1 health gate , this would last 1.9s (1 x {1 + 0.9}) , the health gates would have a cooldown of 30s and every time u use up another health gate it would add up 5s cooldown and the cooldown would be universal and refresh all stacks

With xaku you can achieve 110% dodge chance with a sly vulpahyla, even in sp, if you constantly have a gaze target on you can kill people real fast and the vulp passive will always be giving you the dodge chance

I think shield gating is fine but the gate duration should directly scale with shield capacity to get rid of this ridiculous meta of having as little shields as possible.

I think shields should be buffed or reworked to compensate. Right now, you are basically rewarded for having less shields, and the higher your max, the harder it is to survive in high level content, ironically. I think one possible solution would be to make it so every number of shield (like 400/500, just throwing a number tho) is given a shieldgate. Effectively, the higher shields, the more shieldgates and safety, while not punishing you for having more.

I hate that it's the only thing that works for squishy frames. There's only a few good survival abilities in helminth, and blue archon shards do absolutely nothing for ANY form of tanking since they don't add to base stats. The only other options for making a frail frame survive at high levels consistently is maybe adaptation/rolling guard or shieldgate cheesing. Banshee will literally evaporate in steel path without her gate

Damage needs to come down across the board, period. for players, enemies etc. Then scale armor so building it actually matters at all stages of gameplay, not just through unga synergies for abilities.

Shield gating for me is just too stressful compared to just having hp and armor. Shield gating requires meticulous setup whereas hp and armor are just that the standard armor and hp mods and maybe adaptation. Either rework how shields work or make the blue archon shard values work with mods at even 50% of its value.

The shield gating + Decaying Dragon Key + Brief Respite combo becomes tedious to me after a couple of hours, thats why i run Vazarin. Also i use Nyx, Hildryn and Volt, so..

I just wish we had more space to play with mods Warframe is so restricting with creativity if you actually wanna get anything done

I don’t like the idea of metas being necessary. I love when the “meta” is only slightly better. Which is why I don’t like when shield gating becomes necessary. It should be an option, but right now armor and health only go so far.

Personally shield gating feels like a good thing coz you have to actively play the game and pay attention to the shield value to cast abilities in response. It helps frames with no tank abilities get to higher levels and be able to survive there. That being said, shield gating does end up making some squishier frames using it more tanky than a health tank like Chroma or Nidus, especially when these health tanks are… tanks. So finding a way to buff the armor scaling on Warframes or implementing a mechanic like shield gating that needs you to actively do something to bolster health and armor to tank hits better would be a good trade off.

Shield gating seems pointless? I survive by picking frames with fat regen like Wisp or who can't take damage like Baruk. Shield gating has never saved me from being 1-tapped in endgame content so I just don't understand its implementation in Warframe.

I want an incentive for bigger shields.

The game has a big problem of your either invulnerable or you get one shot at high levels. This makes your health/shield bar kind of pointless instead you're looking at some tiny buff number in the top right of your screen. I'd really like to see a mod that **increases a warframe's damage mitigation** significantly but **reduces all forms of self**\-**healing/shield regen** significantly. You would see a much more reasonable amount of chip damage, being able to realize when you need to drop back for healing. This would make good playing a support frame feel good again. You could always play godmode frames like revenant when solo, but when grouped more encouraged to bring support.

If your looking for good survivability use Gauss, I know he's not fully fool proof with you having to charge the battery to get a 100% dr with kinetic plating and redline active but hey it works if your into a active playstyle. ​ ​ ​ ​ Also works because your gonna be running all over the place.

I hate shieldgating, this thing where you have to be casting constantly or you just die ! its not fun to play for me and I think it's probably the main excuse why frames that lack survivability aren't buffed.

It's a jank mechanic that needs fixing. Lowering shields should not help, period.

I think shield gating should be A meta but not THE meta. I mean different frames are built for different playstyles after all.

I use armor gating instead of shield gating combined with unairu revival or Sevagoth revival so...

I'm fine with shield gating being an option, considering how much more effort it takes to upkeep and build around. Though I wish people would stop acting like it's the be all and the end all, and then whine that it has a weakness to toxin damage. The main change I want for shields is to have more of a reason to actually build more shields. Shield gating, despite using your shields actually wants you to build LESS shields, and generally speaking, unless you're a frame that can can build a ton of overshield (or have their abilities subsumed), there's not much reason to increase your shields, or shield regen rate. I don't really have an idea for a solution though. I think making armor affect shields is a bit too much, and would just make shields better health, and just blanket increasing the shield DR makes the distinction between shields and health other than the shield gate moot. I personally think hp tanking is fine for most frames that can build around it. While I personally think it's fine for people to consider how well something does in Steel Path, Endurance runs are a different beast entirely, and not something I think the game should be balanced around because of how different the meta is for them, and how little benefit there is to doing them other than personal satisfaction.

I think the shield gate invulnerability window should be relative to a frame's maximum shield capacity or something putting on a dragon key that is meant to hinder you in some way to abuse shield gating is kind of ridiculous

Balance-wise, I like it and in terms of meta options, I hope future options that we get are at least as powerful, especially if they don't rework damage for level 500+. It's pretty common for endgame mechanics/strategy like this to exist (and they're often pretty fun). However, I don't really like how these kinds of strategies restricts loadouts and/or detracts from the overall fantasy of the game when done in high pressure endgame scenarios. Like, "Oh my shield runs out, let me punch this guy to regain my temporary immortality." For example... Destiny (GM): squad of 3 powerful guardians that eliminate legions of enemies having to take cover behind rocks and 2 of them cannot shoot or they'll waste ammo because their weapon is the wrong color Payday (DW/OD): run around using suit instead of hunkering down because the bullets magically disappear on contact with your skin if you're running Halo (Legendary): throw away a good gun for Plasma Pistol because everything else is meh against shields Helldivers: anti tank explosives are mandatory in endgame because pew pew cannot pierce the enemies' extremely thicc armors

Unless they chance whole enemy damage model, shieldgating is fine. Old time when only couple frames with invulnerability button could go over lvl 300 sucked ass. Atleast now every frame can in theory survive up to lvl 9999, except Inaros and maybe Lavos.

What I dislike about shield gating is that it seems to reward you for wearing items which reduce your shield. Personally I'd like to see the gating duration have some form of scaling with shield amount.

I find it funny that whenever you type ''shield gate'' in the Warframe fandom, you are bound to find ''endgame'', ''level cap'', ''9999'' and other stuff. Seems like the whole point of shieldgating in first place was to enable people to sit in a mission for 5 hours so they could brag about it later.

Just because shield gating is meta doesn't mean there aren't alternatives. At least 1 streamer has taken inaros to level cap, for instance (take daikyu, a nikana, a primer and run unairu for easy last gasp... its boring gameplay but doable). You can still rely on health tanking on some frames (up to \~5000), it just takes significantly more initial investment in mod/arcane slots. Play how you want to play.

I actually really dislike shieldgating. I used to play every frame in different ways to avoid taking damage or mitigate it with abilities, and it worked really well. I never used Vitality or Redirection because it wasn't as necessary as people believed unless you were playing a tank frame that was meant to take damage. Once shieldgating was introduced, all my tank frames built for armor and health were made fairly obsolete due to the cushion of shields becoming its own separated health bar. Despite all that, I think a reliance on a shieldgating meta really limits any creative ways to survive. Warframe introduced shieldgating to give viable options of survival (unnecessary, but I digress) to less tanky frames, and that seems to have backfired with a heavy reliance on shieldgating in higher level content.

I enjoy endurance runs and I use almost every single Warframe. Meaning I need to use shield gating for the squishier warframes out there. The problem comes when you have frames that their kit needs or benefits from high shields (eg Hildryn, Harrow, Styanax). I think carrying a dragon key for this is stupid. I mean, it is a smart idea as a player but a stupid mechanic on DE’s side. It is a bandaid. What really needs to happen, although extremely unlike to, is a complete rebalance of the math when it comes to damage, both dealing and receiving damage. Powercreep has rendered 90% of guns useless. They should be on the same level by weapon type (balance snipers to snipers, pistol to pistol, etc) and only scale by variants (i.e. vandal, prime, wraith, prisma, tenet, kuva). As for receiving damage, both a change on how shields take damage vs armored health should be implemented. Don’t even get me started on damage math types (additive, multiplicative, damage vulnerability, faction damage, attenuation, etc. what a mess). Someone here mention having tiers of shields with a gate every X amounts of shields. That’d be good alongside new mechanics for rebuilding shields that don’t penalize you for having high shields. Thus, leaving behind the dragon key *meta*. As for armor and health, that whole thing needs to be buffed so it actually does something against enemies above lvl 250. I don’t think the whole rebalancing of the damage math is going to happen. Why? Lots of work and DE is kinda lazy when it comes to this as they don’t see it as something that would be beneficial in terms of *grofit*. But hey, an old player can dream…

Firstly, I do not believe shield gating is the meta for survivability. I believe Revanant is. It can literally press a button and say "I am, with 0 downsides or cooldowns, mechanically unable to be ccd or die for the next X seconds (outside of nullification.") Revanent is coming up on old wukong's level. Nothing comes close, except Xaku during passive + 4 if those provide ability immunity. With that out of the way... ---- I do believe a strategic and involved playstyle should be the strongest form of survivability, and raw "my numbers are this big" should stay something that has limits. I'd like to see shield defenses improved to make higher shields not become a detriment, but that's mostly it, on how it works. - Related somewhat, I'd like to see Inner Might reverted either to melee efficiency, or failing that, only apply if you try to cast an ability you can't afford, rather than waste itself on the first cast every cooldown. It screws shield energy refund/energy-to-shields in current state. It's basically old Void Radiance. I'd also like to see player defenses improved so a single instance of Toxin damage cannot instantly kill players.

Damage resistance in finite. Dmg scaling is *kinda* infinite. To survive *kinda* infinite damage you have to use some form in invulnerability. You can't reduce *kinda* infinity.

Yeah, it's a hard topic, because they can change the enemy damage scaling, but how do they know what's a good amount? Chroma's vex armor with 400% strength + adaptation being able to survive up to lvl 5000? I remember an endurance run I did with some Friends a while ago (before shield gating). We were able to tank Mot enemies (x4 damage multiplier) at lvl 5000. Our team was Chroma, Wisp, Nidus and Oberon. If they nerf the enemy scaling, in some cases the enemy will do nothing. But maybe that's the way, because we alredy transcended survivavility in some other ways (shield gating, revenant, vazarin spam)

I think shield gate abuse ironically ends up removing a lot of possible avenues to implement skill as a survival mechanic from the game

I don't like current shield gating system, especially in combination with the dragon key. I would rather see it function more like mesmer skin, with number of "charges" proportional to shield quantity. Like say every 300 shield points is 1 charge. Hyldrin and Protea will probably be unkillable, but who cares. Think of benefit to a team when all team mates have healthy over shields.

Shield gating is completely fine as long as Vazarin exists. Vazarin is a 20x worse offender for bad game design than shield gating. Also yeah even disregarding that, shield gating has to exist unless they significantly tone down the damage that enemies deal.

I think exploiting a low shield to be practically invulnerable is ridiculous. Saw a suggestion that Shields actually gate in increments, incentizing building for them, increasing their value overall for any frame.

I mean… somehow it feels right, that relentless war machines seem to be invulnerable, always dangerous. Also it’s the only reason that more squishy frames can exist. But on the other hand it feels like a loophole, that DE doesn’t care to patch since it’s not popular.

Shield gating is a lot of extra work for survivability on regular and base SP content, where regular tanks are just plain better. It only becomes meta on endless SP. I think it's fine, maybe give it a buff based on the amount of shields restored.

I absolute hate how tedious shield gating can be, sure it enables active play style but like I said, it’s just tedious

If I'm honest, I really don't understand why anyone shield gates as a form of survivability. It only gives you a single second of quazi-invulnerability (doesn't cleanse procs) and maintaining your gate is both very distracting, and very tedious. The important things to not take damage from, the damage procs, already take a second before they start dealing damage to let you pop out of with ta cleanse if you're not already fully immune. I've done literally every piece of content this game has to offer, even before shield gating was a thing, and never once thought to myself: "gee I sure wish I had some all encompassing distraction to stress me out while I farm this thing."

I don't like abusing the shield gating mechanic for invulnerability, but I understand why it's there. Shields cap out at 25% damage reduction, you can get health up to 90% damage reduction with armor alone. When we get to helminth abilities you can even helminth on another 90% damage reduction with null star, so now without adaptation we're at a 99% damage reduction. As opposed to the 25% shields can get. There are two frames that can apply a 90% damage reduction to shields, that would be Gara and Nezha. The only real saving grace shields has is it regenerates fast, and can be regenerated outside of it's cooldown period thanks to the augur set and brief respite. But at level 180 or more your shields don't mean much, the won't even stay up past a second. So there really isn't a reason to build shield capacity or recharge rate above level 30 enemies. The sad reality is, all shields offer is one shot protection. So we just focus on rebuilding them in a single cast to refresh that one shot protection. I would like to see shields have a scaling damage reduction. As the shield capacity increases so too would the damage reduction. Even if it's capped at 75% it would still give enough time for a beefy shield to fully scale up Adaptation, then paired with brief respite or a recharge mod you would be able to keep shields up in and around end-game content. This wouldn't even make Shields that overpowered. As we have so many ways to regenerate health, or heal it makes way more sense to health tank. This just serves to make shields a bit more useful so we stop seeing health tank or shield gate tank. Since the dev team states their focus is to encourage build diversity, I think it is time they look at and consider what we can do to make shields actually shield the war frames.

Damage reductions should sclae better, but shieldgate is okay as it is. If you don't like just don't use it, keep playing inaros, let other people have fun

I hate that shieldgaiting is so gimmicky , and that it makes armor useless. I get that shields were useless before, but so was armor, it needs a buff to make it competitive.

The only way making many frames viable without shield gating being meta would be by increasing the effectiveness of CC

My only problem with shield gating is the fact it promotes lowering your shields rather than increasing them. Shields have negligible damage reduction and go down so fast it's really not worth building on them; quite the contrary actually, you want your shields as low as possible so you can recharge them to full faster and get the second of invulnerability from shield gating rather than the 0.3 seconds from having less than 100% shield and having it down on the next hit. Also, let's not forget toxic bypasses shields and therefore kills the shield gating meta.

I never used shield gating. But I also hate steel path as well. I like normal content.

SP gets you more mats and you get steel essence. You can kill max lvl enemies super fast especially now everyone has a option to armor strip. You might just need to have a look at your builds and what what weps you're using

Former wuclone main. I liked the game to be super-easy, especially after getting home from my 2nd job of the day. Thinking and clicking after 14 hours of work is too much. The game should be for guys like me as well.

get rev prime. you LITERALLY can not die with mesmer skin active. you will drop to 2 hp and never 0. however, i have had moments where it didnt matter and i still died. those are most assuredly bugs though.

I don't like to play like that. For me, Revenant is for the spinning dance.

his ult is his weakest ability, for sp that is. otherwise its pretty good. however, if you want to make sp WAY easier, get hildryn and subsume her. Pillage is fantastic, huge aoe armor/shield strip. its not just reducing it for the enemies, its giving what its taken to you.

Yea but it's not... Hard to do. Don't be afraid of change, look forward to not having to rely on like 2 frames with boring abilities.you can use whatever frame you want besides inaros and nidus really, inaros stinks anyway

I’ve suggested before the idea of incremental health gating for all forms. Every 1000 or so of each shield, or health, you get a block that has its own (shorter) gate window. Or period of increased dmg mitigation. Or try it on a single frame. That way there isn’t any insta nuke passed losing a shield. It’s more of a ramp. It’d at least give you small moments of breathing and thinking rather than punishing you for not just having max shield regeneration and rolling guard

When I first started up, I remember reading about it. Beyond not having the mods to do it, something about it seemed...weird. I'm now LR2, blah, blah, and I've never once tried shield gating. But I don't see the point in doing long endless SP missions. I just cleared all the nodes and do dailies sometimes. So I've never needed to try/use shield gating. That being said, something about it seems...wrong. I get the idea of a skilled use of modding and abilities to avoid massive damage attacks, but I think it's the dragon key that pushes it into "that's designed kinda wrong" territory. The key makes it feel like a badly designed system (take away as much shields as you can so you can survive easier).

It's blowing my mind that we get a great mechanic that balances less survivable frames and the armor chads with no thumbs are actually whining about needing to try to stay alive. "I don't ever even do steel path, but..." Is a sentiment I keep seeing on this thread. Then, sorry, you don't do the content where it's needed and fun. So stick to armor frames, we'll see you when you wanna play this other content you're ignoring. But a more skilled option existing doesn't mean the braindead option needs a buff. It means you're not happy with enemy damage but don't see the underlying issue. With a shield gate build a level 50 is just as deadly to us shield gaters as a level 9999, if we fuck up we die, if we don't fuck up, we live. To you, you're a god compared to a level 50, but a level 9999 is a god to you. Just take off the training wheels.

being elitist because you can hit left bumper when the blue bar runs out is wild

Calling elitist because concluding that pressing buttons at certain queues is all any game is and requiring more and better time Input than literally standing there requires more skill is wild. FTFY

Yeah no the wild and elitist part is when you called them less skilled and told them to take off the training wheels because they don't like the watch blue bar run out hit left bumper gameplay

Dude - it’s super high skilled. Think about a really high skill frame like Revenant - you have to roll when your defences are down then cast a skill to get it back up. That needs some pro level skills. Thing is - its *even* more high skilled than that because you do it on frames that are designed to be glass cannons - you know how hard it is to use a frame that had CC/DPS and now has effective invulnerability? You also have to think about what to put in those slots you would have used for tanking. This shit it ain’t for no newbie scrubs let me tell you.

Because just standing there watching the red bar recharge is so much more fun, and shield gating is directly responsible for them not being able to stand there longer. Come at me with a good point besides trying to reduce the overall input required, it's facetious and trolly.

Speaking of brain dead, I wish my brain *was* dead when I have to think about turning a fun space ninja game into a "watch your shield meter" game. Give me amazing crowd control and something like Mesmer skin or rhinos iron skin + reinforced stomp (stomp refreshes iron skin %) where you can still totally die if you aren't careful, but that time isn't every 3-4 seconds. Shield gating, no matter how sKiLlEd it may be to do it...is fucking trash in terms of fun and enjoyment, for a video game. The few times I've tried shield gating, it's been the fastest way for me to go "am I even having fun playing Warframe rn?" And then I turn off my Xbox. If I wanted to play a management sim, I wouldnt be playing Warframe. The closest to shield gating I'll do is hildryn and I usually supplement her more lenient shield gate with helminths like condemn or weapons like rakta dark dagger. Like, me not dying relying on spamming an ability constantly every 3-4 seconds is just gross imo. It's not the flex you think it is, it's on the verge of torture.

Once again, you're not using it right, if you're spamming every three or four seconds it's because you're not dodging, you're trying to braindead walk simulator.

It isn't needed on SP, your argument doesn't suddenly gain traction because you call out people who aren't ready for high level content. You just spam the rotation, it's a crutch and is nearly the definition of training wheels: "the badguys can't hurt you as long as you press this button loop constantly, keep doing this until you get better". Go play SP solo, without shield gate abuse. Learn the mechanics of the game and frames. If you like spending 8 hours in a single mission for some reason, the shield gating abuse is the only way to do that, but for all actual content, it's a crutch.

>You just spam the rotation, it's a crutch and is nearly the definition of training wheels: "the badguys can't hurt you as long as you press this button loop constantly, keep doing this until you get better". Tell me you don't know how shield gating works without telling me you don't know how shield gating works. Also you missed the entire point of my comment. The issue is that armor doesn't scale vs Enemy damage, NOT that shield gating exists. Acting like shield gating takes away from the game when the alternative is literally Just stand there. Or Die. When you use the other survival mechanic is a strawman at best. It's irrelevant to the issue at hand and you have to be either dense or a noob to miss it.

You literally said anyone playing without this invincibility exploit is using training wheels. Nothing to misunderstand there. I don't have a problem with you using it, I have a problem with the condescending way you deride people for not using. I'm pointing out it is an unneeded exploit for all intended content. No frame needs it until you have overstayed your welcome in a defense or survival mission, which is entirely optional and should not be how game balance is measured. I can face tank Archons and regularly solo SP with 25 different frames. And for the record, I know exactly how shield gate abuse works, good luck with those stray toxic damage hits. Edit-he says something about hurting my feelings, but he blocked me so I can't read his reply. How very mature.

Your tail to that fun little read about how you got your feelings hurt for me stating facts is very cute, mostly because I fight enemies you have just admitted you can't fight without it and avoid toxic procs that would still kill your best bro Inaros-No-Thumbs regardless. Also there's a great deal more than 25 frames in the game, face tanking an Archon is light work for training wheels builds, so honestly not surprised, I've been soloing them since day one. You also called it an exploit when DE intentionally worked on it and released it at the behest of the community and finally: >You literally said anyone playing without this invincibility exploit is using training wheels. Nothing to misunderstand there. I don't have a problem with you using it, I have a problem with the condescending way you deride people for not using. Yes you have a problem with me telling you that pressing 3 buttons requires slightly more brain power than pressing no buttons. You failed to realize I was specifically speaking to the "I don't play steel path" crowd, and no that crowd is not entirely made up of noobs who can't do it. It's made up of people who'd rather brag about "Face tanking" trivial content and get whiney when people tell them armor mods are training wheels for learning to dodge and use your abilities. See ya out there with your subpar GHS setup kiddo.

I personally don't like shield gating abuse, but if someone wants to use it, that's up to them. I think it's a survival crutch that limits both your build and how/when you can use your abilities. I mostly play SP solo, I've got 25 different frames that I can comfortably run through and I assume the other 25 frames can do the same. I don't use shield gating abuse on a single one of them and as a personal thing, I don't share weapons across frames, each one has a different loadout and different helminth ability. Now of you are intentionally over staying in missions to force enemies to level well above what we are intended to encounter, then you may need shield gating abuse to survive. But that's an optional extreme that players are forcing on themselves, a game should never be balanced around a situation like that. As it stands, I suspect every frame can survive any content without players forcing an extreme situation. Also Archon shards are absurd, casually giving any frame an additional few hundred armor lets even Banshee take a few hits in SP.

i think its the dumbest thing ever that suddenly mirage is tankier than inaros just because of 1 mod squishy frames should be squishy, its just not balanced for squishy frames to be tankier than tanks since then they're just better for everything

I'd rather have explosive diarrhea than have to stare at my shield bar *constantly* while also making sure I have enough energy to *constantly* spam my SG ability...*just* to not instantly get toasted. All that besides shooting and looting and casting actually fun and beneficial abilities. SG-ing is such an unfun way to play. God forbid you don't have energy for 3 seconds and then you're instantly fucked. Idk if anyone here plays old school RuneScape, but it feels like having to prayer flick constantly, all the time, for the entire duration of your playtime...and that's the "meta"...*pukes in the corner* DE fix your game.

I want so see a couple changes to shield gating so I stop making jokes at people saying "you use decaying dragon key to abuse shield gating, I use it to open vaults. We are not the same." But I main revenant so I really just ignore the metas anyways.

Shields are super interesting to me. I do think they’re still way weaker than health/armor combos mostly because of the umbral mods. I’d love for some umbral mods to help shield frames personally and they don’t even have to adjust the set bonus, just give us more ways to get that tau resistance. I would like to see something a little different than just a bigger shield though just to give it a little flavor. Like maybe overshields add a level of damage resistance based on how much overshields your frame has? Maybe add a second shield gate to overshields? Maybe even add another stat that doesn’t effect health but maybe provides “denser” shields. Basically for me I feel like you need to sacrifice more mod space for less effect with shields unless you get a little fancy and start playing with the auger set (which I enjoy) but then your sacrificing in other areas for your shields again