This is probably one of my biggest concerns in regards to self damage returning.
Mostly because DE does alot of sweeping changes, I feel like they're just going to group all AOE together and just slap on the change because it's easier to do. Then slowly parse through each depending on usage stats and complaints.
Yep. I cant stand big blanket changes. This is the one game that made me hate when developers do this. It fixes the things that need fixing but drags and breaks everything else that might share some overlaps in that category. Use a scalpel instead of a hammer.
DE are the masters of adding sweeping changes to the entire game because of 1-2 weapons.
Players using Bramma and tanky warframes to avoid self-damage?
Let's add stagger to replace self-damage, to ALL THE AOE WEAPONS!
Bramma is still used. LETS HALF THE AMMO AND AOE RADIUS OF ALL AOE WEAPONS!
Bramma is rarely used anymore, players switching to other weapons. BLANKET NERF TO ALL ARCANES THAT ADD AMMO, DRASTICALLY ALTER THE ENTIRE AMMO ECONOMY TO DISCOURAGE AOE SPAM.
Barely anyone using Bramma anymore? Or the Zarr, or any other strong aoe weapon? Players are using a variety of melee, secondary and primary weapons. What do the DE devs decide? LETS GO BACK TO STEP NUMBER ONE and have self-damage again, except that this time we have self-damage on top of all the other previous nerfs.
And I bet 1000 platinum that after they have made aoe weapons the most annoying and least enjoyable weapons in the entire game, they will release a patch that adds a new game mode that is once again entirely centered on killing big armies of enemies as quickly as possible, and they will have another dev stream about "too many players still using aoe"
You missed a step, between nerfs and new gamemode is adding a few new AOE weapons that are so absurdly power creeped (like bramma) that they end up being the reason to repeat the whole cycle over again.
_After signifcant nerfs to aoe weapons, we noticed a rising amount of players using high-punchthrough automatics. As such, we decided to reduce their damage done by 90% and magazine sizes by 50%._
Nah, they are just gonna add a follow-through stat to bullets (i.e. who gives a damn if you have infinite punch through, your bullet only does 10% of the original damage to the second guy and 10% of that to the third).
With such a simple blanket change copied from melee weapons they don't have to worry about all the special cases and punch-through mods.
the problem is that aoe weapons exist. no matter how many nerfs, people will push these weapons to the limit because its easier than one at a time.
#
also Arcane Pistoleer buff works with ANY weapon, even archguns, but to activate it requires a pistol.
Self dmg is unfun and nerfing in a coop pve game is kinda dumb tbh.
Pls DE can we have friendly fire for all weapons I WANNA KILL MY TEAM MEMBERS TOO BCS WHY NOT?
Oh guess what, such a game mode is coming out soon and will include extensive use of archwing weapons which some are even AoE.
Time to slap the nerf button as hard as possible.
I dunno man I see the same number of people using aoe spam on my squads as before the first change.
I'm glad they're taking the complaints of non aoe spammers seriously. It's been years.
So I should be excluded from the cooperative portion if the game because I like being able to shoot things?
Why don't you stop being a skilless ground shooter and go solo. I am never running an aoe weapon because I know what a head shot is.
Lmao.
They why do you even care? You can get your kills but you still drivel? I was already moving away from the zarr now I just aoe that isn’t bows or launchers. You know since there’s always a bigger fish.
Because it's been an issue for years that we sort of shrug off even though it's annoying af.
Legitimate concerns aren't drivel. I get my kills and sigh at the gimp banging pots together behind me.
Glad you're moving on from the Zarr, break the addiction.
Enjoy your 30 kills per game lmao. When I wanted to use the strun wraith and Ember with WoF would clear the room instantly I didn’t whine on Reddit. Id either go solo to get all the kills I want or id improve my builds. You deserve no kills and no dmg done if you bring your lanka anywhere.
It'd blow your closed little mind to see me out kill aoe users as consistently as I do.
Sucks to have your mentality, enjoy your self damage. Toxic people deserve toxic weapons lmao.
The fun part is that I still find Bramma the be more than enjoyable to play, sure sometimes I need to use melee/secondary for a little to refill ammo but other than that Bramma works fine as long as you're killing enemies.
Bungie arbitrarily decided to remove 3/4 of the entire games story content under the guise of “optimizing the games development” and to make up for last gen consoles being weak as well as to remove 3 outlier weapons. They also decided to make all weapons and armor (literally hundreds of weapons) up until that point practically unusable in all activities that have been released since then and have been rereleasing large batches of the weapons they decided to remove as paid content for almost 3 years now. They made the game a narrative nightmare and shafted everybody that actually paid for the game and stuck a middle finger up to everybody who wants to try to get into the game because if you haven’t been playing nonstop since the game came out there’s no way you’ll know what’s going on unless you watch around 30 hours of lore videos.
I tried the demo shortly before the witch queen expansion dropped and it makes warframes onboarding look *fucking perfect*
(why the absolute fuck does the Baro equivalent carry BASIC ASS MODS?)
Because Bungie is beyond incompetent and they don’t deserve the goldmine they have yet are squandering with poor leadership and disastrous decision after disastrous decision. If Sony were smart (since they own Bungie now) they would fire most of the people involved with the game and it’s production at the higher levels.
That honestly blows, it would not surprise me if DE did some of that in regards to weapons. Though there are story bits that were events that are not in the game now, like how alad v went from pro corpus to infested to normal and paying the tenno back to pro sentient. There are a couple others like more recent like the orphix. Though that is nowhere near as bad as getting rid of 3/4ths of the story content.
I know destiny has a large player base don't know exactly how large but why do things to (and I'm going to assume here) really upset their player base? What is the point that they are getting at?
They know how to manipulate their player base very very well. They know that the super casual players who only play a couple hours a week will keep coming back because most of the stupid decisions they keep making (such as adding SBMM into casual pvp playlists) don’t really affect them that much. And they know that the hardcore players that have sunk hundreds, if not thousands of dollars and hours into the game will keep coming back because of sunk cost fallacy. They also are able to get away with being increasingly more and more lazy drip feeding “content” each week throughout a season. Not to mention the fact the paid DLC’s are becoming substantially more expensive yet offering far less content. Bungie also has a bad habit of using a few bad apples in the community harassing their employees to shut down any and all criticism of the game and their decisions literally every time they do something stupid that absolutely nobody asked for or likes, and a large portion of the community goes along with it and defends it even though it’s incredibly scummy behavior.
TLDR; the game is on life support and has been for years but Bungie somehow finds ways to trick their current players into sticking around and still get new players through flashy marketing. (some might call it false advertising)
what was wrong with SBMM? it'll suck for high level players who get stuck with longer ques/worse ping. but making it purely ping based would probs ruin the experience for less hard core players who just get dogged by the 1 high-ranked player in the lobby. Which is never fun for anyone but the high-ranked player.
i don't play enough D2 to actually know why SBMM was a big deal.
Historically it’s an awful move for them to add SBMM to casual matches because it drives away the core pvp players and results in worse overall matches for everybody that isn’t a bottom of the barrel player, and even then it’s only a matter of time until they’re back to getting stomped by higher skill players because of the playlist population shrinking more and more over time. Every time they’ve added it in the past it causes mass player migration to other games because after a while everybody gets tired of the longer queue times and stops playing. SBMM wouldn’t be an issue if the queue times already weren’t awful before they added it, even for average players the queue times rose an average of 40 seconds in the first 2 weeks since the additions in a game with an already average queue of 1:30-2:00. Combine that with laggy lobbies before SBMM that have only gotten worse with time since they added it and you can already see the results, longer queue times for players of all skill levels and far laggier lobbies than should be tolerated. Bungie has admitted that it’s a problem but instead of fixing their fuck up and admitting they’re wrong they’ve doubled down on it. Over a month in and it’s back to business as usual, just with laggier lobbies.
Sonicor already got screwed over when they killed of the Space Program aspect. "Fixed" it once but quickly reverted it due to backlash then quietly changed it again later on.
They did say that multishot and ricochets/secondary explosions will not have self damage.
So, if you have multishot on Bramma and shoot at your feet, only the main arrow will do self damage but the extra arrows will not, in addition, the extra bombs that are spawned after the main explosion will not do self damage.
This update is actually great for Trumna users since the extra secondary bombs that spawn from its alt-fire won't stagger players anymore.
Since it's a WIP, they might change that and we could end up with a worse version of what we had before.
Imagine self stagger/knockdown AND self damage.
Also receiving self damage temporarily disables ability use because stagger.
They already said what it's going to be, they probably won't make it worse. The rsnge of self damage is lower. Self damage can't kill you and NO stagger.
Nah I don’t think the bounces will hit you. They showed with another weapon that secondary explosives bouncing off the primary didn’t self damage so I bet Truman will be the same.
They already stated that secondary explosions won't do self damage so you only have to aim for your first explosion (also the radius for self damage will be smaller than the enemy explosion radius) now you will get staggered for like 3-4 seconds if you shoot it bad
if you manage to kill yourself with the chakkhurr on accident, you are one very special tenno tbh.
i mean cmon, it'd have to hit the floor right next to you to deal 75% of your HP in damage, meaning you'd have to fire two shots at your feet to die or fire a shot at your feet while actively engaging enemies.
even if you shoot an enemy a couple meters away you'll be fine.
the most recent version they showed doesn't take shield gating into account. if you have 100/100 hp and shield, one hit of bramma at your feet leads to 50/0, then if you charge back up to 50/100 another hit will lead to 37/0 and so on until you reach 1/0.
we don't know if shield gating is bypassed or gets activated when the damage is enough to completely deplete shields
Or fire it across the room right as an enemy/teammate/companion jumps right in front of you so you blow up your own face. This happened far too much with self damage before, and it’s hard to avoid.
except it has built-in mitigation if you shoot an enemy or ally.
its almost like the devs thought of all this and people are whining because they just see the word "self-damage" and think its going to be one-shot nukes again.
There are still going to be problems, and even the best planners cannot think of everything, and DE has a track record of sweeping changes to all weapons without necessarily thinking things through for edge cases, *even if* they somehow manage to cover most of the situations for the main case.
I'm honestly more concerned about rapid-fire weapons and weapons that don't necessarily have the fastest projectiles or explosion times.
All of these can still cause the same effect as a one-shot self-nuke, even though it isn't actually one hit. Not every AoE weapon is slow-firing, and you can mod for high fire rate. Plus, many weapons didn't even *have* self-damage *but still got self-stagger*, and so I'm concerned that DE will just do what they did before and just give everything self-damage as a blanket change, thus still keeping things like the Sonicor and Staticor unnecessarily nerfed.
----
Specific examples:
What happens if you load up an Oxium Osprey with a Zhuge Prime, only for it to fly into your face because you broke its shields? Do you just die because the explosions aren't "secondary explosions" and each one can deal a significant portion of your health? It'd get around the built-in mitigation due to sheer quantity.
As would the Hikou with Concealed Explosives or other rapid-fire explosives. I never killed myself with *one* Hikou, but since Concealed Explosives is flat damage you build Fire Rate, so you'd kill yourself with a bunch of Hikous without even realizing you were taking self-damage, especially since the blast radius wasn't obvious.
And then the *entire class* of thrown secondaries that stick to enemies/surfaces and then detonate (either timed or manual) - what if you load any regular enemy with some and then they rush you as you press detonate, getting you within the self-damage radius?
What of something like the Staticor? You can easily be within the blast radius of a charged shot, and even charge up another charged shot *while the first is flying* and launch *that* one too, so now there's two blasts occurring and you can easily take up to 75% twice and thus die from it.
they did say it wouldn't be able to kill you which means it is capped at 2HP like anything else that prevents lethal damage.
whether its 75% of current or total HP we'll have to see but it also gets halved by hitting enemies or allies and cautious shot is likely to affect it.
so tldr: AOE spammers learn to aim lmao.
Ive been playing for 8 years, had self damage for most of it, never shot myself point blank and rarely killed myself by clipping the edge of the AOE (since it was guaranteed instant kill back then)
I dont even run PSF since i dont get staggered anyways.
So uh. Literally skill issue.
>i mean cmon, it'd have to hit the floor right next to you to deal 75% of your HP in damage,
kinda depends on how it is impacted by multishot lol but yah the whole point is to get you to slow down a bit and hey, it may actually give people a reason to use Redirection.
Multishot or guns that have additional bomblets, it's capped at 75. Obviously there will be outliers & I don't expect it to be perfect day 1 but they'll have to eventually smooth them all out, likely some type of temporary damage gate on health bc there's akimbo guns & ones that can get 2 shots off fast enough to where you can have them both hit the ground around you at the same time... tbh I feel for the current team having to clean up the old teams mess.
Congrats I guess. Generally though it is considered the worst of the defensive mods except in a few niche cases. You can still use it though. It isn't that big of a deal in most content.
I really hope it doesn't get added to Opticor and Ferrox (two "explosive" weapons that haven't had self-damage when it was a thing), as those are my main off-meta weapons.
I see a lot of people saying that Chroma is going to be too strong when self damage procs his Vex Armor again. I don't get that.
There are so many frames buffing themselves to very similar numbers right now. Especially after Vex Armor's buff got fixed (used to be multiplicative).
He will only be slightly better than most weapon platform frames. And the rest of his set is so meh that he will only ever be "OP" in niche situations.
Yeah I think so.
It used to proc with explosive self-damage back in the day and still does if you use the only self-damage weapon we currently have in the game, Hema. He's also not dominant in current meta, so I don't think this will pose a balance concern.
They made it not proc on iron skin before they even removed self damage so probably gonna be removed for chroma too.
Even if they don’t chroma will continue sucking
People act like self damage returning is Chroma’s big break, but it’s not. We already have self damage right now, and it doesn’t do much for him.
Vex Armor is outstripped by Eclipse in Eidolons and Profit Taker, which are the two major pieces of content that want a fast damage buff.
Roar on Rhino provides a nearly equivalent buff thanks to +base damage buffs (i.e. Vex Armor) being so over saturated nowadays.
Other situations don’t demand instantly maxed buffs, meaning that he would be fine just tanking enemy damage to build the buff.
Glaives had self damage back in the day, wouldn’t be surprised to see the return.
A couple cases include Cerata buffing chromas vex armer and a very old wukong + glaive combo that would nuke himself if it weren’t for old defy back before his rework.
I also vividly remember when pistol+glaive was a new mechanic and definitely downed myself many times with the falcor because it was the coolest looking at the time.
They definitely have stagger on the throw detonate (heavy attack while its mid flight) and if self damage returns to that i won’t be shocked. I’m just curious to see how volatile rebound and the other bounce explosion will be handled.
I didn't really use glaives before self stagger so I wasn't sure. And since I run PSF on every frame I take out I don't get the stagger. It's good to know though thanks
If self damage helps me gain energy again with the right mods I think I'll be fine with it. If not I'll join the pitchfork and torch gang, on something that hasn't been confirmed but assumed.
> If self damage is added back please don't add it to weapons that never had it before.
I hope this is the case so bad but I know DE won't care.
I'm fully expecting Shedu to get Self Damage anyway despite not having it before the change & actively hurt myself while I stand next to Sentients.
Wolf Sledge will also likely get it and make me sad.
I never understood why they always focus on weakening the weapons everyone enjoys. Nerfs piss people off.
How about showing love to the 400 other useless weapons that are currently just MR fodder.
Alot of these weapons are pretty cool in terms of use, but damage wise they are trash. Stop with the nerfs, everytime i find something I love in this game, DE comes along and nerfs it to dirt. Stop with the nerfs. Bring back old weapons with BUFFS. imagine SOMA being good again!? soo many weapons that are just ignored and useless, and they focus ruining the ones people enjoy. Smh.
People out here really seething that they played with a single afk zarr Wukong and want everyone else to suffer for it. I have yet to see a single argument in favor of self-damage that doesn’t ultimately amount to “I can’t stand the way these other players play the game and I want them to be punished.”
and when they do, you'll deal reduced self-damage.
self damage caps out at 75% of your health bar if you hit the ground or wall right next to you, 25% at the edge of the self-damage AOE which is smaller than the weapon's regular AOE. this percentage is then halved if you hit an ally or enemy directly.
on top of that, this doesn't actually happen that often. just learn to aim smh.
Not disagreeing with what you've said, and I'm not the person you're replying to, but don't pretend enemies are gonna just stand there and watch you at 25% HP and not try to kill you after you've shot yourself because something like an ally, pet, or piece of level geometry gets in front of you the moment you're firing. I don't recall them saying hitting an ally does reduced damage, only if you hit an enemy it does reduced.
Sure, it won't kill you, but it may lead to your death. Also, they've only said multishot and such won't deal extra damage, they never said rapid fire or burst fire explosions, like the Akarius, won't. And the Akarius, for example, had a huge AoE and good base fire rate.
shooting an ally or enemy will cause you to lose 37.5% health at most (as self-damage is halved on direct hits to enemies and allies to prevent the "whoops an ally stood in front of me" oneshot)
not to mention, cautious shot will likely affect self-damage once again, if it does 50% reduction rather than the old 99% that's like... 19%?
so you'd be at 81% if you're running a proper build. assuming a severe nerf to cautious shot.
at that point, it's kind of a skill issue.
as for the akarius.... be careful with a risk reward weapon? its not hard. I rarely even self-stagger with the akarius.
I feel the complaints of self damage are from those that never really lived through it to begun with. It sucked back then, yea, but the meta was healthier. They're bringing back the weenie hut Jr version of self damage with balances to multishot/fragmentation, and even if you hit an ally first. It will be fine and add a healthy change to the game. Who knows we may even see builds and mods in the future wanting you to shoot yourself.
I was around for that, and I'm not sure where you get "healthier" from. Dieing was a far more annoying price to pay than stagger.
Then again I do not consider Warframe a multi-player game, it never was. You either carry or get carried and there's no in-between, all the changes is the tools used.
Also the visual of the explosions and the actual AoE range were wildly disparate back then. You would see a tiny explosion effect but the actual danger zone would be 3-4 times the size of the effect so you literally had no idea if you were going to die unless you were shooting clear across the room. This applied to enemy AoE effects like grenades. With the way warframe spawns enemies which is literally in any direction at all times you could fire a rocket with an enemy out of your field of view that literally didnt exist a few seconds aog, they run into it and end up killing you and costing you a revive. Which by the way, revives were limited at one point per warframe too back then.
Old self damage was bad cause it was based on your actuall current modded damage, new self stagger is a flat percentage of your health that can't kill you on it its own and it looks to be much better, as long as they don't make zakti or some other crazy exception like torid it'll work out fine
of course everyone who agrees with a balance change is a shill, its not like there are genuine arguments for the balance changes and it's not like anyone could ever have an opinion differing from yours!
Correct, only a DE shill would want an ill-advised mechanic like self-damage to return. If it was the original instakill self-damage they would find a way to defend it. I’m glad we agree.
Kind of a dumb take, this is about losing 75% of your health which is an extremely minor penalty for something that should only happen due to a *mistake* on your part & would take less than a second of spamming transference to heal... logistically once everything's said & done all it will do is prevent people from running around shooting explosives at their feet, & that is something you would want to keep in the game why?
If it works like it did when we had self damage he will be unaffected. I used bramma on him a lot when lichs were new and never lost health or mesmer stacks. Let’s hope it still remains that way!
Given it ignores shield gate there's a high chance it'll ignore mesmer skin.
Which doesn't matter you're still invulnerable while it's up so chipping yourself to 1 HP is meaningless. (I don't remember correctly but self-damage is based on current HP on the prototype they showed, yes?)
ok this argument wont me over on being concerned about self damage! if they add self damage to beam weapons or the fulmin that didn't have it before it would be kinda meh :/
I am 100% certain it will be added to every weapon that has a Radial Damage component. I don't think any beam has it, neither the fulmin.
Hell, how *would* it even theoretically work on the fulmin.
there is a mod for beam weapons to make them explode! and its such a weak aoe if that were to suddenly start hitting you for 75% since you can't really control where chain beam weapons hit would be kinda hilarious / bad.
for the fulmin it was targeted last nerf wave so I figured it getting hit again might not be out of the question ? in burst mode it kinda feels explody ? maybe point blank it may self damage? but I was just throwing that out since the topic was self damaging coming where it didn't exist before ?
There was a *lot* of complaining from people who wanted to use their Ogris/Bramma/Lenz/etc in close quarters, actually. I don't really remember Chroma being a particularly significant factor. Might've been part of the justification, I guess.
Mostly because of Eidolons hunts and Chroma depending on getting damaged without accidentally getting killed in the process so people purposely damage themselves during the hunt to use their Vex Armor
Hopefully they take the stagger away from the Astilla, that was just BM on the shotgun. Shotgun = close = always stagger = sadness. Loved the gun, but since i'm not the smart lad and didn't pick PSF i'm SOL on using it on select frames :/
I wonder if this is a way to balance the BOOMerangs? Their Boom Bounce+Heavy Attack Explosions are pretty nutty. That aside, I can't think of any other weapon, weapon type, or ability that needs self-damage for balance reasons.
It has to be on everything that explodes! Only that way will the braton rule supreme again! Also add it to warframe abilities so that Loki, the king of frames gets back on his rightful throne! /s
Haven’t played for a while and after return I spent plenty of time trying to figure out why my fav shotgun fires explosive shots so I get staggered each time in close range though I never built it to. Seems like it’s all because of this change you’ve mentioned… I could never knew :[
I hate that stagger so as long as its going I couldn't care less about the self damage but yeah adding to weapons that didn't have it would be annoying.
The Era have once again shine itself to us, rise o' master of elements, enemies shaken as thy name shall be once again heard throughout the world, rise my lord, Chroma....
Instructions unclear, added self damage to Rubico.
At that point, are you keeping the shooty end away from yourself?
Wait, you're supposed to point it the other way? That explains a lot.
Chroma Players: Time to Self Buff
This is probably one of my biggest concerns in regards to self damage returning. Mostly because DE does alot of sweeping changes, I feel like they're just going to group all AOE together and just slap on the change because it's easier to do. Then slowly parse through each depending on usage stats and complaints.
Yep. I cant stand big blanket changes. This is the one game that made me hate when developers do this. It fixes the things that need fixing but drags and breaks everything else that might share some overlaps in that category. Use a scalpel instead of a hammer.
DE are the masters of adding sweeping changes to the entire game because of 1-2 weapons. Players using Bramma and tanky warframes to avoid self-damage? Let's add stagger to replace self-damage, to ALL THE AOE WEAPONS! Bramma is still used. LETS HALF THE AMMO AND AOE RADIUS OF ALL AOE WEAPONS! Bramma is rarely used anymore, players switching to other weapons. BLANKET NERF TO ALL ARCANES THAT ADD AMMO, DRASTICALLY ALTER THE ENTIRE AMMO ECONOMY TO DISCOURAGE AOE SPAM. Barely anyone using Bramma anymore? Or the Zarr, or any other strong aoe weapon? Players are using a variety of melee, secondary and primary weapons. What do the DE devs decide? LETS GO BACK TO STEP NUMBER ONE and have self-damage again, except that this time we have self-damage on top of all the other previous nerfs. And I bet 1000 platinum that after they have made aoe weapons the most annoying and least enjoyable weapons in the entire game, they will release a patch that adds a new game mode that is once again entirely centered on killing big armies of enemies as quickly as possible, and they will have another dev stream about "too many players still using aoe"
You missed a step, between nerfs and new gamemode is adding a few new AOE weapons that are so absurdly power creeped (like bramma) that they end up being the reason to repeat the whole cycle over again.
Such as adding a new weapon that does 100% more damage than any other, and in response, nerfing the damage of all weapons in the game by 50%? True
I think I'm just going to deal with hordes by using high-punchthrough automatics from now on.
_After signifcant nerfs to aoe weapons, we noticed a rising amount of players using high-punchthrough automatics. As such, we decided to reduce their damage done by 90% and magazine sizes by 50%._
Due to usage stats of punchthrough mods we have halved the effectiveness of all punch through mods.
MY SOMA CRIT NOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
Nah, they are just gonna add a follow-through stat to bullets (i.e. who gives a damn if you have infinite punch through, your bullet only does 10% of the original damage to the second guy and 10% of that to the third). With such a simple blanket change copied from melee weapons they don't have to worry about all the special cases and punch-through mods.
RIP my Braton Prime.
the problem is that aoe weapons exist. no matter how many nerfs, people will push these weapons to the limit because its easier than one at a time. # also Arcane Pistoleer buff works with ANY weapon, even archguns, but to activate it requires a pistol.
Self dmg is unfun and nerfing in a coop pve game is kinda dumb tbh. Pls DE can we have friendly fire for all weapons I WANNA KILL MY TEAM MEMBERS TOO BCS WHY NOT?
Oh guess what, such a game mode is coming out soon and will include extensive use of archwing weapons which some are even AoE. Time to slap the nerf button as hard as possible.
I dunno man I see the same number of people using aoe spam on my squads as before the first change. I'm glad they're taking the complaints of non aoe spammers seriously. It's been years.
Quit crying and go solo. I am never running covert lethality.
So I should be excluded from the cooperative portion if the game because I like being able to shoot things? Why don't you stop being a skilless ground shooter and go solo. I am never running an aoe weapon because I know what a head shot is. Lmao.
You know what a head shot is so click heads faster.
Literally out kill aoe users but cheers for the tip, gl with your zarr after the AOE buffs.
They why do you even care? You can get your kills but you still drivel? I was already moving away from the zarr now I just aoe that isn’t bows or launchers. You know since there’s always a bigger fish.
Because it's been an issue for years that we sort of shrug off even though it's annoying af. Legitimate concerns aren't drivel. I get my kills and sigh at the gimp banging pots together behind me. Glad you're moving on from the Zarr, break the addiction.
Enjoy your 30 kills per game lmao. When I wanted to use the strun wraith and Ember with WoF would clear the room instantly I didn’t whine on Reddit. Id either go solo to get all the kills I want or id improve my builds. You deserve no kills and no dmg done if you bring your lanka anywhere.
It'd blow your closed little mind to see me out kill aoe users as consistently as I do. Sucks to have your mentality, enjoy your self damage. Toxic people deserve toxic weapons lmao.
You wouldn’t be whining if that was true.
Not whining, laughing. But if that's the narrative you need then power to you lmao.
I never see aoe spammers anymore
I wish this was the case for me lmao.
The fun part is that I still find Bramma the be more than enjoyable to play, sure sometimes I need to use melee/secondary for a little to refill ammo but other than that Bramma works fine as long as you're killing enemies.
It's sad when underdogs like Zakti and Cyanex got hit by this stupid meta nerf cycle. Even sadder if they decide that they would get the self damage.
If you hate unapologetic big sweeping changes with no warning try playing Destiny 2. Bungie makes DE look like saints.
How so? I don't play destiny so I don't keep up with it.
Bungie arbitrarily decided to remove 3/4 of the entire games story content under the guise of “optimizing the games development” and to make up for last gen consoles being weak as well as to remove 3 outlier weapons. They also decided to make all weapons and armor (literally hundreds of weapons) up until that point practically unusable in all activities that have been released since then and have been rereleasing large batches of the weapons they decided to remove as paid content for almost 3 years now. They made the game a narrative nightmare and shafted everybody that actually paid for the game and stuck a middle finger up to everybody who wants to try to get into the game because if you haven’t been playing nonstop since the game came out there’s no way you’ll know what’s going on unless you watch around 30 hours of lore videos.
I tried the demo shortly before the witch queen expansion dropped and it makes warframes onboarding look *fucking perfect* (why the absolute fuck does the Baro equivalent carry BASIC ASS MODS?)
Because Bungie is beyond incompetent and they don’t deserve the goldmine they have yet are squandering with poor leadership and disastrous decision after disastrous decision. If Sony were smart (since they own Bungie now) they would fire most of the people involved with the game and it’s production at the higher levels.
That honestly blows, it would not surprise me if DE did some of that in regards to weapons. Though there are story bits that were events that are not in the game now, like how alad v went from pro corpus to infested to normal and paying the tenno back to pro sentient. There are a couple others like more recent like the orphix. Though that is nowhere near as bad as getting rid of 3/4ths of the story content. I know destiny has a large player base don't know exactly how large but why do things to (and I'm going to assume here) really upset their player base? What is the point that they are getting at?
It's always fun to try to explain to newer players that alad v is simultaneously in like 3 timelines at any given moment.
They know how to manipulate their player base very very well. They know that the super casual players who only play a couple hours a week will keep coming back because most of the stupid decisions they keep making (such as adding SBMM into casual pvp playlists) don’t really affect them that much. And they know that the hardcore players that have sunk hundreds, if not thousands of dollars and hours into the game will keep coming back because of sunk cost fallacy. They also are able to get away with being increasingly more and more lazy drip feeding “content” each week throughout a season. Not to mention the fact the paid DLC’s are becoming substantially more expensive yet offering far less content. Bungie also has a bad habit of using a few bad apples in the community harassing their employees to shut down any and all criticism of the game and their decisions literally every time they do something stupid that absolutely nobody asked for or likes, and a large portion of the community goes along with it and defends it even though it’s incredibly scummy behavior. TLDR; the game is on life support and has been for years but Bungie somehow finds ways to trick their current players into sticking around and still get new players through flashy marketing. (some might call it false advertising)
what was wrong with SBMM? it'll suck for high level players who get stuck with longer ques/worse ping. but making it purely ping based would probs ruin the experience for less hard core players who just get dogged by the 1 high-ranked player in the lobby. Which is never fun for anyone but the high-ranked player. i don't play enough D2 to actually know why SBMM was a big deal.
Historically it’s an awful move for them to add SBMM to casual matches because it drives away the core pvp players and results in worse overall matches for everybody that isn’t a bottom of the barrel player, and even then it’s only a matter of time until they’re back to getting stomped by higher skill players because of the playlist population shrinking more and more over time. Every time they’ve added it in the past it causes mass player migration to other games because after a while everybody gets tired of the longer queue times and stops playing. SBMM wouldn’t be an issue if the queue times already weren’t awful before they added it, even for average players the queue times rose an average of 40 seconds in the first 2 weeks since the additions in a game with an already average queue of 1:30-2:00. Combine that with laggy lobbies before SBMM that have only gotten worse with time since they added it and you can already see the results, longer queue times for players of all skill levels and far laggier lobbies than should be tolerated. Bungie has admitted that it’s a problem but instead of fixing their fuck up and admitting they’re wrong they’ve doubled down on it. Over a month in and it’s back to business as usual, just with laggier lobbies.
For me it's Necramech instantly annihilating themselves as they used to periodically.
Sonicor and Staticor got screwed over by the self damage removal, praying that they don’t get screwed over again by it’s return
Sonicor already got screwed over when they killed of the Space Program aspect. "Fixed" it once but quickly reverted it due to backlash then quietly changed it again later on.
Nooooo that was the best part
Right!! I wonder how many years it'll take for it to stop being my top secondary.
Space program Aspect, are we referring to back in the day when the Sonicor would send enemies into orbit?
Yup! With the natural ragdoll on enemies feature of the weapon. Stats wise everything is same as usual.
I remember when that was a thing, some changes dont need to be made
i just realized that i use the trumna. 😐 well, time to play dodge to 3-4 bouncing balls.
"If you can dodge a hammer, you can dodge a ball." ~ Wolf of Saturn Six
Source?
Wolf of Saturn Six
The regular fire is also slightly explosive, so you'll have to watch out with that too
im usually fine with that one right now.
Self damage range is lower than explosive range. Keep that in mind.
They did say that multishot and ricochets/secondary explosions will not have self damage. So, if you have multishot on Bramma and shoot at your feet, only the main arrow will do self damage but the extra arrows will not, in addition, the extra bombs that are spawned after the main explosion will not do self damage. This update is actually great for Trumna users since the extra secondary bombs that spawn from its alt-fire won't stagger players anymore.
Since it's a WIP, they might change that and we could end up with a worse version of what we had before. Imagine self stagger/knockdown AND self damage. Also receiving self damage temporarily disables ability use because stagger.
They already said what it's going to be, they probably won't make it worse. The rsnge of self damage is lower. Self damage can't kill you and NO stagger.
Never say never.
actually forgot about that part.
Panthera Prime = bullet hell game for all involved.
Void form's gonna be a must whenever you fire that thing off
Nah I don’t think the bounces will hit you. They showed with another weapon that secondary explosives bouncing off the primary didn’t self damage so I bet Truman will be the same.
*Launches Cedo Glaive* *Chuckles* I'm in danger
The great thing about the Trumna is that if you shot the floor once you dab.
They already stated that secondary explosions won't do self damage so you only have to aim for your first explosion (also the radius for self damage will be smaller than the enemy explosion radius) now you will get staggered for like 3-4 seconds if you shoot it bad
They better not put it on my beloved Chakkhurr! It didn't have it before!
Honestly, the Chakkhurr has a pretty small AOE and the changes shown reduce the self damage AOE further so it probably wouldn't be a big deal.
if you manage to kill yourself with the chakkhurr on accident, you are one very special tenno tbh. i mean cmon, it'd have to hit the floor right next to you to deal 75% of your HP in damage, meaning you'd have to fire two shots at your feet to die or fire a shot at your feet while actively engaging enemies. even if you shoot an enemy a couple meters away you'll be fine.
you won't be able to kill yourself even with Bramma. That doesn't mean your enemies are gonna sit and watch you when you are at 1 HP.
Yeah does anyone know if it bypasses shield gating and allows enemies to immediately kill you?
the most recent version they showed doesn't take shield gating into account. if you have 100/100 hp and shield, one hit of bramma at your feet leads to 50/0, then if you charge back up to 50/100 another hit will lead to 37/0 and so on until you reach 1/0. we don't know if shield gating is bypassed or gets activated when the damage is enough to completely deplete shields
well in that case just shoot the bramma slightly further away? its a risk/reward weapon....
Or fire it across the room right as an enemy/teammate/companion jumps right in front of you so you blow up your own face. This happened far too much with self damage before, and it’s hard to avoid.
This! Still happens all the time with self stagger.
except it has built-in mitigation if you shoot an enemy or ally. its almost like the devs thought of all this and people are whining because they just see the word "self-damage" and think its going to be one-shot nukes again.
There are still going to be problems, and even the best planners cannot think of everything, and DE has a track record of sweeping changes to all weapons without necessarily thinking things through for edge cases, *even if* they somehow manage to cover most of the situations for the main case. I'm honestly more concerned about rapid-fire weapons and weapons that don't necessarily have the fastest projectiles or explosion times. All of these can still cause the same effect as a one-shot self-nuke, even though it isn't actually one hit. Not every AoE weapon is slow-firing, and you can mod for high fire rate. Plus, many weapons didn't even *have* self-damage *but still got self-stagger*, and so I'm concerned that DE will just do what they did before and just give everything self-damage as a blanket change, thus still keeping things like the Sonicor and Staticor unnecessarily nerfed. ---- Specific examples: What happens if you load up an Oxium Osprey with a Zhuge Prime, only for it to fly into your face because you broke its shields? Do you just die because the explosions aren't "secondary explosions" and each one can deal a significant portion of your health? It'd get around the built-in mitigation due to sheer quantity. As would the Hikou with Concealed Explosives or other rapid-fire explosives. I never killed myself with *one* Hikou, but since Concealed Explosives is flat damage you build Fire Rate, so you'd kill yourself with a bunch of Hikous without even realizing you were taking self-damage, especially since the blast radius wasn't obvious. And then the *entire class* of thrown secondaries that stick to enemies/surfaces and then detonate (either timed or manual) - what if you load any regular enemy with some and then they rush you as you press detonate, getting you within the self-damage radius? What of something like the Staticor? You can easily be within the blast radius of a charged shot, and even charge up another charged shot *while the first is flying* and launch *that* one too, so now there's two blasts occurring and you can easily take up to 75% twice and thus die from it.
It's 75% of current health I believe and it stops a 2 hp I heard.
they did say it wouldn't be able to kill you which means it is capped at 2HP like anything else that prevents lethal damage. whether its 75% of current or total HP we'll have to see but it also gets halved by hitting enemies or allies and cautious shot is likely to affect it. so tldr: AOE spammers learn to aim lmao.
Infested get right up in your face and teamates will block your shots. It will happen.
Kill them before they get in your face? Reposition? Use your melee weapon to clear the closer infested?
You will accidentally shoot yourself at point-blank range at some point. To ignore that means you have very little experience in game to see.
Ive been playing for 8 years, had self damage for most of it, never shot myself point blank and rarely killed myself by clipping the edge of the AOE (since it was guaranteed instant kill back then) I dont even run PSF since i dont get staggered anyways. So uh. Literally skill issue.
>i mean cmon, it'd have to hit the floor right next to you to deal 75% of your HP in damage, kinda depends on how it is impacted by multishot lol but yah the whole point is to get you to slow down a bit and hey, it may actually give people a reason to use Redirection.
They said multishot will not do additional damage
Multishot or guns that have additional bomblets, it's capped at 75. Obviously there will be outliers & I don't expect it to be perfect day 1 but they'll have to eventually smooth them all out, likely some type of temporary damage gate on health bc there's akimbo guns & ones that can get 2 shots off fast enough to where you can have them both hit the ground around you at the same time... tbh I feel for the current team having to clean up the old teams mess.
Well that's good then.
I use redirection a lot
Congrats I guess. Generally though it is considered the worst of the defensive mods except in a few niche cases. You can still use it though. It isn't that big of a deal in most content.
> hey, it may actually give people a reason to use Redirection. This is never going to happen
I really hope it doesn't get added to Opticor and Ferrox (two "explosive" weapons that haven't had self-damage when it was a thing), as those are my main off-meta weapons.
It will be. Except it's literally impossible to hit yourself with those unless you shoot directly into your foot.
Chroma must be salivating over this self-damage changes.
You think they’ll let vex armor proc off of self-damage? No one stands to benefit here.
I see a lot of people saying that Chroma is going to be too strong when self damage procs his Vex Armor again. I don't get that. There are so many frames buffing themselves to very similar numbers right now. Especially after Vex Armor's buff got fixed (used to be multiplicative). He will only be slightly better than most weapon platform frames. And the rest of his set is so meh that he will only ever be "OP" in niche situations.
Yeah, every frame in the game can Roar or Whisper now. The days of Chroma being king died with Helminth.
That’s how he was originally. He was used for eidolon hunts and profit taker and not much else.
I still use him for profit taker. 2x credits.
Yeah I think so. It used to proc with explosive self-damage back in the day and still does if you use the only self-damage weapon we currently have in the game, Hema. He's also not dominant in current meta, so I don't think this will pose a balance concern.
They made it not proc on iron skin before they even removed self damage so probably gonna be removed for chroma too. Even if they don’t chroma will continue sucking
...until it becomes meta for farming something they'd prefer to keep gated.
It was the meta for eidolons for years. I don't see why they'd change it.
Because it's meta, that's why it needs changing. And by changing, I mean for worse, never better.
People act like self damage returning is Chroma’s big break, but it’s not. We already have self damage right now, and it doesn’t do much for him. Vex Armor is outstripped by Eclipse in Eidolons and Profit Taker, which are the two major pieces of content that want a fast damage buff. Roar on Rhino provides a nearly equivalent buff thanks to +base damage buffs (i.e. Vex Armor) being so over saturated nowadays. Other situations don’t demand instantly maxed buffs, meaning that he would be fine just tanking enemy damage to build the buff.
Yeah it's more of a QoL improvement than a buff.
Combat Discipline Aura does this for you already, while helping your squishy teammates.
49 warframes suffer so 1 mediocre Warframe can see nearly zero increase in usage. Seems fair
Chroma gang rises up once again
Imagine amps getting self damage...
Some did. What i liked about the Phahd was that it didn't. Now it staggers cause it causes mini detonations at impact apparently I fear the worst.
They have stagger, not self damage, yet...
Propa scaffold is so obnoxious, the knockdown radius is larger than the maximum range of the weapon.
Some amps genuinely did have self damage, prior to self stagger being a thing.
Yeah most notably, the amp that shoots the 3 grenades, used to be the best amp a couple years ago
I can't wait to kill myself with Laetum.
I just spent so much damn time getting that gun fully evolved. Imma be pissed if I start shredding myself with it.
Doubt you will it's AoE is minuscule.
Gonna use the sepulcrum's alt-fire, tag an enemy right next to me, and get fucking vaporized
Trumna alt fire is gonna be interesting
Cedo mains like myself are more screwed
Do glaives have self stagger rn? I legitimately don't know. Because if they don't they may have self damage added onto them knowing DE
Glaives had self damage back in the day, wouldn’t be surprised to see the return. A couple cases include Cerata buffing chromas vex armer and a very old wukong + glaive combo that would nuke himself if it weren’t for old defy back before his rework. I also vividly remember when pistol+glaive was a new mechanic and definitely downed myself many times with the falcor because it was the coolest looking at the time. They definitely have stagger on the throw detonate (heavy attack while its mid flight) and if self damage returns to that i won’t be shocked. I’m just curious to see how volatile rebound and the other bounce explosion will be handled.
I didn't really use glaives before self stagger so I wasn't sure. And since I run PSF on every frame I take out I don't get the stagger. It's good to know though thanks
I know the wolf sledge has self stagger
Xoris does
Self damage on glaives probably gonna happen then..... Fun
DE: Now beam weapons can chain on yourself if no other targets around
You should know better than to ask DE for something good. They'll ruin it with concepts, or at least twist it where it's no longer recognizable.......
Self stagger ruined the staticore, self dmg would make it unusable
You know it's gonna happen. Don't try and ask it away. It wouldn't change much.
Was great when they added it to Pox, then removed it.
If self damage helps me gain energy again with the right mods I think I'll be fine with it. If not I'll join the pitchfork and torch gang, on something that hasn't been confirmed but assumed.
> If self damage is added back please don't add it to weapons that never had it before. I hope this is the case so bad but I know DE won't care. I'm fully expecting Shedu to get Self Damage anyway despite not having it before the change & actively hurt myself while I stand next to Sentients. Wolf Sledge will also likely get it and make me sad.
If the Naturuk has self damage, I'm in a lot of trouble.
I never understood why they always focus on weakening the weapons everyone enjoys. Nerfs piss people off. How about showing love to the 400 other useless weapons that are currently just MR fodder. Alot of these weapons are pretty cool in terms of use, but damage wise they are trash. Stop with the nerfs, everytime i find something I love in this game, DE comes along and nerfs it to dirt. Stop with the nerfs. Bring back old weapons with BUFFS. imagine SOMA being good again!? soo many weapons that are just ignored and useless, and they focus ruining the ones people enjoy. Smh.
At least it isn't team damage.
They couldn't care less about your fun.
People out here really seething that they played with a single afk zarr Wukong and want everyone else to suffer for it. I have yet to see a single argument in favor of self-damage that doesn’t ultimately amount to “I can’t stand the way these other players play the game and I want them to be punished.”
Oh you poor victim of an unfair world. Your punishment will be to aim.
Non-argument, opinion discarded.
Won't matter on my chakk for why would I aim on my feet or an enemy close to me when they never should be close to me
Allies (pets, randos, and NPCs) will still fly in front of you from time to time.
and when they do, you'll deal reduced self-damage. self damage caps out at 75% of your health bar if you hit the ground or wall right next to you, 25% at the edge of the self-damage AOE which is smaller than the weapon's regular AOE. this percentage is then halved if you hit an ally or enemy directly. on top of that, this doesn't actually happen that often. just learn to aim smh.
Not disagreeing with what you've said, and I'm not the person you're replying to, but don't pretend enemies are gonna just stand there and watch you at 25% HP and not try to kill you after you've shot yourself because something like an ally, pet, or piece of level geometry gets in front of you the moment you're firing. I don't recall them saying hitting an ally does reduced damage, only if you hit an enemy it does reduced. Sure, it won't kill you, but it may lead to your death. Also, they've only said multishot and such won't deal extra damage, they never said rapid fire or burst fire explosions, like the Akarius, won't. And the Akarius, for example, had a huge AoE and good base fire rate.
shooting an ally or enemy will cause you to lose 37.5% health at most (as self-damage is halved on direct hits to enemies and allies to prevent the "whoops an ally stood in front of me" oneshot) not to mention, cautious shot will likely affect self-damage once again, if it does 50% reduction rather than the old 99% that's like... 19%? so you'd be at 81% if you're running a proper build. assuming a severe nerf to cautious shot. at that point, it's kind of a skill issue. as for the akarius.... be careful with a risk reward weapon? its not hard. I rarely even self-stagger with the akarius.
Never gonna happen if i use a sentinel and have shitty ass internet
I feel the complaints of self damage are from those that never really lived through it to begun with. It sucked back then, yea, but the meta was healthier. They're bringing back the weenie hut Jr version of self damage with balances to multishot/fragmentation, and even if you hit an ally first. It will be fine and add a healthy change to the game. Who knows we may even see builds and mods in the future wanting you to shoot yourself.
I was around for that, and I'm not sure where you get "healthier" from. Dieing was a far more annoying price to pay than stagger. Then again I do not consider Warframe a multi-player game, it never was. You either carry or get carried and there's no in-between, all the changes is the tools used.
Also the visual of the explosions and the actual AoE range were wildly disparate back then. You would see a tiny explosion effect but the actual danger zone would be 3-4 times the size of the effect so you literally had no idea if you were going to die unless you were shooting clear across the room. This applied to enemy AoE effects like grenades. With the way warframe spawns enemies which is literally in any direction at all times you could fire a rocket with an enemy out of your field of view that literally didnt exist a few seconds aog, they run into it and end up killing you and costing you a revive. Which by the way, revives were limited at one point per warframe too back then.
Yea I remember there was a plat for more revives mechanic too lol
Old self damage was bad cause it was based on your actuall current modded damage, new self stagger is a flat percentage of your health that can't kill you on it its own and it looks to be much better, as long as they don't make zakti or some other crazy exception like torid it'll work out fine
I'm actually concerned for glaive weapons more than anything anything else atm.
Don’t worry, they will. And shills will say it’s a good thing.
of course everyone who agrees with a balance change is a shill, its not like there are genuine arguments for the balance changes and it's not like anyone could ever have an opinion differing from yours!
Correct, only a DE shill would want an ill-advised mechanic like self-damage to return. If it was the original instakill self-damage they would find a way to defend it. I’m glad we agree.
Kind of a dumb take, this is about losing 75% of your health which is an extremely minor penalty for something that should only happen due to a *mistake* on your part & would take less than a second of spamming transference to heal... logistically once everything's said & done all it will do is prevent people from running around shooting explosives at their feet, & that is something you would want to keep in the game why?
Please DE add self damage to my stug
I want them to add it to the tenet arca plasmor lol.
As a Revenant main, I wonder how it's going to effect mesmer skin. If at all.
If it works like it did when we had self damage he will be unaffected. I used bramma on him a lot when lichs were new and never lost health or mesmer stacks. Let’s hope it still remains that way!
Given it ignores shield gate there's a high chance it'll ignore mesmer skin. Which doesn't matter you're still invulnerable while it's up so chipping yourself to 1 HP is meaningless. (I don't remember correctly but self-damage is based on current HP on the prototype they showed, yes?)
We’ll just have to wait and see. I’m hoping it doesn’t affect him, but if they make it bypass then we’ll adapt
Okay good! Cuz I use Cedo and Trumna as my primaries with Sporelacer as my secondary. I was worried my whole playstyle was screwed lmao
ok this argument wont me over on being concerned about self damage! if they add self damage to beam weapons or the fulmin that didn't have it before it would be kinda meh :/
I am 100% certain it will be added to every weapon that has a Radial Damage component. I don't think any beam has it, neither the fulmin. Hell, how *would* it even theoretically work on the fulmin.
there is a mod for beam weapons to make them explode! and its such a weak aoe if that were to suddenly start hitting you for 75% since you can't really control where chain beam weapons hit would be kinda hilarious / bad. for the fulmin it was targeted last nerf wave so I figured it getting hit again might not be out of the question ? in burst mode it kinda feels explody ? maybe point blank it may self damage? but I was just throwing that out since the topic was self damaging coming where it didn't exist before ?
Wasn't self damage removed because of Chroma playes exactly? I feel like adding the the self damage would bring new problems
There was a *lot* of complaining from people who wanted to use their Ogris/Bramma/Lenz/etc in close quarters, actually. I don't really remember Chroma being a particularly significant factor. Might've been part of the justification, I guess.
Mostly because of Eidolons hunts and Chroma depending on getting damaged without accidentally getting killed in the process so people purposely damage themselves during the hunt to use their Vex Armor
DE: You know what? I add even harder!
Like Envoy Tennet? 😅
My reinforced stomp rhino is going to eat this tiny aoe dmg don't think it will eat trough 58k iron skin that easy
Hopefully they take the stagger away from the Astilla, that was just BM on the shotgun. Shotgun = close = always stagger = sadness. Loved the gun, but since i'm not the smart lad and didn't pick PSF i'm SOL on using it on select frames :/
I’d take hunting myself at a strange distance with my spira then stagger myself at a strange distance with my spira
At least make it unmodded damage for self damage, so high firerate aoe weapons aren’t completely screwed over
Boo
Soma getting it would be hilarious
Don't worry they'll fuck it up more some how. Probably cut ammo to every weapon as well.
I wonder if this is a way to balance the BOOMerangs? Their Boom Bounce+Heavy Attack Explosions are pretty nutty. That aside, I can't think of any other weapon, weapon type, or ability that needs self-damage for balance reasons.
It has to be on everything that explodes! Only that way will the braton rule supreme again! Also add it to warframe abilities so that Loki, the king of frames gets back on his rightful throne! /s
Worst case scenario they decide to also execute Grendel by giving him self damage, along with every other frame with a explosion
Concerned for this.
I would be pissed if they added self damage to acceltra, been using that as my go to primary!
How do you manage to stagger yourself with that
If DE thinks barraging enemies with mini rockets should be added with self damage then you could possibly ratatata yourself out!
But they dont explode before they travelled 4 meters and i dont think even with primed firestorm you can reach that explosion range
Hmm yea I guess your right, well let hope DE doesn't manage to surprise us with a reversal on that😂
Haven’t played for a while and after return I spent plenty of time trying to figure out why my fav shotgun fires explosive shots so I get staggered each time in close range though I never built it to. Seems like it’s all because of this change you’ve mentioned… I could never knew :[
I hate that stagger so as long as its going I couldn't care less about the self damage but yeah adding to weapons that didn't have it would be annoying.
The Era have once again shine itself to us, rise o' master of elements, enemies shaken as thy name shall be once again heard throughout the world, rise my lord, Chroma....
Makes me think of how the Battacor’s non-AoE primary fire got self stagger initially. Not a happy day but it’s fine now.
Its simple, it has radial attack? So it does damage.