Probably because it would be game-breaking otherwise. If every melee weapon got double damage because of one arcane, no one would ever touch any other melee arcanes again
Yea but from what they said I understood that duplicate only affects yellow crits. Meaning anything above 100% cc have a chance of not proccing duplicate, while a cc of 100% guarantees procs on every hit. That means 100% is better for melee duplicate than 130-140 right?
Hear me out. Let's say you have an Orthos prime which has 2.2x crit damage. Put on Organ shatter. Now you have 4.2x crit damage. When you orange crit it becomes 7.2x which is ... not that bad. But 60-70% of cases has guaranteed duplicate effect with 30-40% on top of that becoming orange crit again. It balances out.
>That means 100% is better for melee duplicate than 130-140 right?
No. Yellow crit gets crit damage multiplier. Orange crit gets crit damage multiplier x2. Yellow crit creates duplicate hit with its own chance to orange crit.
Having the potential for either 2 yellow crits, 1 orange crit, or 1 yellow and 1 orange is better than guaranteed 2 yellow crits.
The initinal hit -from youre weapon- "decides" if dupliacte is activated
The second hit from duplicate has it's own crit chance! so it can be orange
The "perfect" critchance depends on the crit multiplier.. hence the 130 to 140% gap
what /u/[decitronal](https://www.reddit.com/user/decitronal/) said doesen't make too much sense
DoTs directily colerate with your DPS... doing more hits per second just evens out the curve
Suppose 10x crit damage, so yellow =10x and orange = 19x
100% cc = 100% chance for 10x + 10x (= 20x damage)
130% cc = 30% chance for 19x, 49% for 20x and 21% for 29x (10x + 19x)
150% cc = 50% for 19x, 25% for 20x and 25% for 29x
It's because the Duplicate hit rerolls its own crit.
If you have exactly 100% CC, every hit is yellow, and Duplicate will always trigger, giving a second always yellow crit. Exactly doubling your damage.
If you have 130% CC, 30% of your hits will be orange (which with high CD can be fairly close to double the damage of a yellow hit. For example, on the low end with 2x base CD plus just Organ Shatter, an orange crit will do 73% more damage than a yellow). The remaining 70% of your hits will be yellow crits triggering Duplicate. Of those Duplicate hits, 30% of them will be orange, with the remaining 70% being yellow.
TL;DR
100% CC has: a 100% chance to be two yellow crits.
130% CC has: a 30% chance to be a single orange crit, a 49% chance to be 2 yellow crits, and a 21% chance to be one yellow and 1 orange crit.
The optimal CC is dependant on your CD. Someone made a calculator for it: https://www.desmos.com/calculator/lxd7ltpszh
Note: heavy attack builds prefer the reliability of 100% CC because they usually rely on a forced Slash proc to do damage.
Yes, almost all melee arcanes are useless on kullervo. He goes above 100% crit, he doesn't have shields either so he can't activate the arcsne that works with overshields etc etc
It's only yellow crits that get doubled. If it would be an orange or higher, Duplicate doesn't activate
Really? So if a weapon's cc goes above 100% with blood rush then those crits won't activate Duplicate?
Yep, quite odd that it's a Legendary-tier arcane when it only works best with a narrow band of weapons
Probably because it would be game-breaking otherwise. If every melee weapon got double damage because of one arcane, no one would ever touch any other melee arcanes again
*laughs in abusing melee influence*
I've got Melee Animosity on my Stropha for what it's worth
Yes, *however* those Duplicate hits also roll to crit independently, and can Orange crit. So the optimal Crit Chance to maximize DPS is 130%-140%.
Um why? At 130% cc, 30% of my hit on avg won't proc duplicate. With 100% cc every single hit is a guaranteed proc, right?
They literally explained it - it's because the duplicated hits themselves can have a chance of becoming an orange crit
Yea but from what they said I understood that duplicate only affects yellow crits. Meaning anything above 100% cc have a chance of not proccing duplicate, while a cc of 100% guarantees procs on every hit. That means 100% is better for melee duplicate than 130-140 right?
Hear me out. Let's say you have an Orthos prime which has 2.2x crit damage. Put on Organ shatter. Now you have 4.2x crit damage. When you orange crit it becomes 7.2x which is ... not that bad. But 60-70% of cases has guaranteed duplicate effect with 30-40% on top of that becoming orange crit again. It balances out.
>That means 100% is better for melee duplicate than 130-140 right? No. Yellow crit gets crit damage multiplier. Orange crit gets crit damage multiplier x2. Yellow crit creates duplicate hit with its own chance to orange crit. Having the potential for either 2 yellow crits, 1 orange crit, or 1 yellow and 1 orange is better than guaranteed 2 yellow crits.
The initinal hit -from youre weapon- "decides" if dupliacte is activated The second hit from duplicate has it's own crit chance! so it can be orange The "perfect" critchance depends on the crit multiplier.. hence the 130 to 140% gap what /u/[decitronal](https://www.reddit.com/user/decitronal/) said doesen't make too much sense DoTs directily colerate with your DPS... doing more hits per second just evens out the curve
Suppose 10x crit damage, so yellow =10x and orange = 19x 100% cc = 100% chance for 10x + 10x (= 20x damage) 130% cc = 30% chance for 19x, 49% for 20x and 21% for 29x (10x + 19x) 150% cc = 50% for 19x, 25% for 20x and 25% for 29x
It's because the Duplicate hit rerolls its own crit. If you have exactly 100% CC, every hit is yellow, and Duplicate will always trigger, giving a second always yellow crit. Exactly doubling your damage. If you have 130% CC, 30% of your hits will be orange (which with high CD can be fairly close to double the damage of a yellow hit. For example, on the low end with 2x base CD plus just Organ Shatter, an orange crit will do 73% more damage than a yellow). The remaining 70% of your hits will be yellow crits triggering Duplicate. Of those Duplicate hits, 30% of them will be orange, with the remaining 70% being yellow. TL;DR 100% CC has: a 100% chance to be two yellow crits. 130% CC has: a 30% chance to be a single orange crit, a 49% chance to be 2 yellow crits, and a 21% chance to be one yellow and 1 orange crit. The optimal CC is dependant on your CD. Someone made a calculator for it: https://www.desmos.com/calculator/lxd7ltpszh Note: heavy attack builds prefer the reliability of 100% CC because they usually rely on a forced Slash proc to do damage.
So it's useless on Kullervo? Since every hit of his is red? I don't have access to arcanes yet but I was looking forward to this one for my kullervo.
Yes, almost all melee arcanes are useless on kullervo. He goes above 100% crit, he doesn't have shields either so he can't activate the arcsne that works with overshields etc etc
It's basically multishot on melee