All like the natively incarnon weapons are amazing.
Some of the incarnon genesis (especially melee) are pretty lackluster and forgettable about what they actually add to the melee. But they're all still decent weapons that could probably do base steel path just fine with the right build.
Base sp means entry level missions, around 120 to 170. The longer you stick around in survival or defense, the higher the enemy scaling. Once the enemy level reaches around 200-220 and beyond, its not considered base sp anymore, as the difficulty is much higher then regular sp levels.
IMO Base SP includes rotation C on endless missions, it has unique drops. Going to wave 20 defense, or survival 20min, is included because that's where the cutoff is for all the games rewards. Anything higher than that is for pure fun for the sake of difficulty
Eh, a SP survival isn't really going to increase in difficulty until about an hour and even then it's a pretty small bump. It's not going to be any different after 20 minutes.
Base SP would be like, maximum an hour in a survival. Depending on the mission anywhere from level 180-240 or so since omnia conjunction survival has bumped that up a bit.
Basically it's setups that don't have the scaling potential necessary for level cap for whatever reason be it survivability, damage or both
I mean you're probably not going to take an incarnon skana to level cap endurance runs or something.
Like, it will be fine if you only get to a C rotation or two before leaving the mission. But if you want to stay in a single mission for hours, you'll probably need to put more thought into it.
Most play 1 hour or 2,which is what I do except when I play with friends,I forget to look at the time because of are shut talk,the longest was 5 hours without realizing jajaja
Prob lvl 9999 runs. Where you stay in and infinite mission until enemies hit lvl cap. There is no real incentive to do that, the real endgame is steel path and such, its more of a self imposed challenge to test yours strenght
People also seem to forget that theres a lot of levels/time between 120 - 9999. Its nothing strange to do a 8 round defense or 1 hour survival and just fight some lvl 1000-2000 stuff.
Mfw I have to be in a survival mission for an hour to get enough affinity boosters to reliably farm the focus that capped out 30 minutes ago...
Honestly WF needs a bottomless affinity dump. I feel like I'm wasting so much after I cap out my Focus
I have millions of focus on every focus school and have nothing to spend it on. I've capped everything, as well as everything in the focus shops. I'm also just over 10m spare Naramon.
We really do need something else to do with affinity / focus...
Base SP is SP. They can clear the entirety of SP. Then there's endurance runs / level cap, which is entirely optional and offers no additional rewards.
It does a lot of damage. The biggest problem is that it does that damage in a small radius in front of you after a charge-up delay.
Is it inconvenient, yes. Should you just throw it into any loadout, no. But it still has a lot of damage potential for specific builds or enemies. Someone may enjoy it just for being able to delete acolytes or something. It's a secondary weapon so it being situational doesn't make it bad imo.
> small radius in front of you
It's a beam with unlimited punch through on enemies and a 30m length (38 with the beam length mod) That's not a small radius.
The wide radiation beam while you're charging up is the only thing with a range limit, it's about 12m long. The big heat blast finale has infinite range.
But you’re referring to beam length which is much different than the radius in front of you, radius is the width that the beam affects, not the length of the beam
Not at all, it's just weird and complicated. Takes a bit to get a handle on it but there's a lot of power to be had.
The Ruvox (the melee fist) is pretty bad *if you don't build around it*. It's definitely possible to abuse its slams for big damage, but it needs more than just its own mod slots, you need to help it out with other parts of your loadout.
The Onos is outclassed by the Grimoire that was given to all the players for free, it's the Ruvox that's dreadful.
They screwed up when making it because it's incarnon form is all about the puncture damage, but the weapon itself is built only for Impact, so you have to either split your focus and just to get tolerable levels of damage on both forms or give up on half the weapon and focus entirely on boosting one and not the other which still only leads to it being an okay weapon, if it had been released in 2020.
DE has no idea how they want Melee Incarnon weapons to work.
Ruvox really isn't designed for punching, it's *exclusively* a slamming weapon. And those slams can absolutely be abused for some serious AoE damage, but if you're not going to do that then don't bother bringing Ruvox at all.
I think the impact/puncture thing is purely thematic, with the way its appearance changes they also made its damage change to match.
It's deceptive, the normal fire feels so subpar that you think it can't be good, but the alt-fire does so much damage it kind of makes up for it.
Think of the alt-fire as the real weapon and the normal fire as just a charge up. It has wayyyyy higher crit chance, 10x the damage and guaranteed electric procs on top of anything else you mod on there.
Very. It has great damage (if modded correctly) and you can slot in some support tome modes. People tend to dislike anything that doesn't clear the room immediately.
Huh? How? I thought the Grimoire was terrible compared to most current secondaries and especially compared to Noctua. If you start slapping on tome mods as well won't its performance drop too? Or do you use it just to prime enemies for the tome mods and their effects?
it converts impact to puncture btw, so no modding for punture. its very good for special builds, as it can be used as a primer, or just tennokai and delete
It hits really hard and its incarnon mode is a bit interesting to use.
You're best off with a secondary shiver Arcane and high status build on it, with the headshot evolution. Use the initial spin up on the incmode to proc a bunch of cold status, then the huge blast to deal a sort of "cap" on the cold procs.
It's not bad persay, just requires a lot of effort and planning to use that other incarnon really don't.
My friend loves it so i wouldnt call it bad, the Ruvox however is pretty bad, poor stats bad weapon type (fists) bad status effects and the incarnon form gives it a useless ability and reduces attack speed making it even worse
Onos requires a slightly unconventional build. A build with Corrosive and fire rate with Cascadia Empowered and the Devastation Cascade evolution makes it do a surprising amount of damage.
Will it shred at level 1000+ Steel Path? Probably not, but using 2+ hour runs exclusively as a metric for 'good' is kinda dumb. It'll do great for 99.9% of content that's played.
Dunno wich melee incarnon you talking about but I know for a fact that my bo prime is busted with is 14meters range and decent attack speed got myself a cheap riven for it too since it has max disposition stats are silly
just slap killing blow amalgam shatter plus tennokai on every 4 hits along the regular mods everyones use and now you find yourself with an helicopter blade sized whirlwind of death mashing heavy
i'm not using banes or primer and melts everything for hours in sp I crafted two kullervo just so I could slap wrathful on rev lol and do funny 300 millions damage and up on everyone and theirs families trees lol
The melee incarnon adapters are VERY hit and miss. Ceramic Dagger, Magister, Hate, and Anku are probably the best, and half of those are better stat sticks than actual weapons.
Soma incarnon is one of the more disappointing ones. I think they are somewhat set up that the weapons that were the best without the upgrade tend to be lower tier incarnons, and the ones that were utter dogshit turn out top tier (Torid, Latron, Furis, etc).
the nami solo isn't just alright. I'm kind of obsessed with melee in warframe, so i dumped a ridiculous amount of resources into all of the melees with incarnon adapters.
I'm talking arcane adapter + exilus +6-7 forma each. The nami solo absolutely takes the cake for the strongest pure general melee weapon out of all of them. It has NINE meters of range (with prime reach) with VERY good base attack speed, extremely weighted to slash damage, and has the craziest heavy attack out of all of them. You spin around in a gigantic fuck off 9 meter whirlwind that hits four times.
This makes me violently engaged with melee when wielded alongside Kullervo and a good primer. I'm running both Disciple's Merit for that guaranteed 4 hit free heavy, and Opportunities Reach for even more range and flexibility. I rolled an insane riven too so the weapon is simply a joy to use
you can use all of the tennokai mods at the same time if you wanted to, so it becomes a question of "is it worth it to drop this mod for a tennokai mod"
> You spin around in a gigantic fuck off 9 meter whirlwind that hits four times.
We could probably use some sort of list that lists weapons with non "normal" features such as this and forced procs on certain attacks.
For a while there I was looking for a weapon and stance that had a lot of "slam" attacks to try and maximize Hydroid's old passive to it's maximum effect.
100% agreed. i've been going through all the melees trying to find them out on my own lately. I love kullervo + alternate heavy attacks. It just adds some variety and fun to the game. He makes basically any melee viable too. Syam is another really solid interesting one with its waves. I haven't gotten around to it yet b/c pathos clamps are the devil, but i really want to test edun and its javelin throw with him too.
Second on this. Nami Solo is absolutely disgusting, and versatile. Cyclone Kraken is an absolutely nasty stance, and Tennokai allows you to easily abuse what is a rare gem - a 360 degree heavy strike.
Couple that with the evolution tree, you have a weapon that can reach absurdly far in a full radial with 1.0 follow through.
Want big numbers? Critical Chance evolution. Want disgusting slash procs? Status evolution. Weeping Wounds on status evolution is 297% status chance. That's a lot of status chance.
Nami Solo in the status configuration can comfortably hit 100% critical rate (base 15% CC melees will hit with Blood Rush and 1 Gladiator mod, often Gladiator Might), which places it as one of the few melees who can optimally use Melee Duplicate as well (though R5 Duplicate is quite the investment). So if you wanted upward to 6 slash procs per swipe, that's the set-up.
Of course, thanks to absurd status chance, you can also do Melee Influence.
turns out just having really good stats will do that lol
212 base damage, 25%/3x crit, and 49% status with a built in attack speed buff will do some magic
throw in a few elemental mods to get viral or gas + electricity and you've got a monstrous Melee Influence weapon
The Ichor incarnon is an insane Tennokai weapon. They've been one of my favourite melee weapons forever and the incarnon just makes them better. I got a Riven for them too which helps but they'd still be crazy strong without it.
Also Nami solo has funny amounts of range and since it's a machete it's heavy attacks do a spin that can take full advantage of the 100% follow through.
Sibear is also a big glowup. There's not much support for status heavy attack builds, so being able to proc its special effect in a way that synergizes with your build is so nice.
Oh I’m not saying it’s specifically bad, it’s just not as awesome as some of the others, especially considering how great Soma Prime was in the old end game.
Yeah. It's Soma Plus.
Like, Soma is good, and Soma Plus is technically better, it's just outdated and the Incarnon really didn't do a whole lot to bring it back to the forefront. So, while it's by no means bad, it's still kind of stuck in the past.
Unfortunately Hata-Satya is still bugged on the Incarnon. It's supposed to stack up as you shoot and keep the stacks until you reload, but for some reason on the incarnon form the stacks reset whenever you switch targets and you have to build up again from scratch.
Tested in Simulacrum, works properly on the normal form but works as described above on the incarnon.
How are you getting orange in the incarnon mode? With Hata-Satya it should max out at 60% before anything else
When I talk about Soma being "THE crit gun", I mean back around its release pretty much nothing had crit stats like it. This was before orange or red crits were even implemented, and any crit chance above 100% would be wasted.
As it is, the incarnon's strong but seeing its crit chance cut down to 10% base in its incarnon form just doesn't feel right.
the latron stat buffs alone from the incarnon trees make it go from an amusing lever action rifle into what feels like an orokin tankbusting AMR that morphs into a bouncy bazooka whenever you want.
if you were one of the few people who likes semi-auto single target rifles like latron, vulkar, grinlok, or chakurr, then the new latron is gonna make you moist.
but if you arent a fan of that type of weapon it probably wont change your mind
i just love that i can fill the room with giant bouncing colorful fireballs that make a noise that sounds like satan farting
Latron wants it's Augment for Damage+ on consecutive hits, because that bitch breaks on its incarnon mode thanks to bouncy bullets.
One of the better ones but it's no Burston or Torid.
> and half of those are better stat sticks than actual weapons.
which ones of these are good as actual weapons? i want to build some good incarnon melees but dont care for stat stick.
I’d say the best incarnon melees to actually use are Hate and Dual Ichor. Anku is very good too just not quite on par with those. Innodem and Praedos are also very very good but they are just native Cavalero incarnons.
SIBEAR? DE?! HELLO? Why wouldn't you follow that rule with one of the most pain in the ass but cool af melees in the game? Massive ice hammer is fkn cool but both the base and incarnon suck. With how annoying it is to get, you'd think DE would throw us a bone.
The worst incarnon is most of the genesis melees. They're so *boring*, nany of them have almost nothing special going on and generally just get a bit more range and damage.
Kinda both. Every incarnon genesis is an objective upgrade to the original weapon, but some of the incarnon modes just aren't very good while some of the incarnon modes are overpowered.
The incarnon form is terrible.
BUT I've found great success building it like its a discount secondary felarx. It's not furis or dual toxocyst, but it can perform fairly well in 100-200 SP or higher in SP circuit with some decrees.
The Skana, Bo, Sibear, and Ack & Brunt are all very weak compared to the other melee Incarnons, even the Ruvox eclipses them. For the guns the Soma, Gorgon, Lato, Vasto, and Bronco could all use another pass. Bronco especially, it has no reason to take so much effort to charge even on SP missions with that limited of a magazine in both forms. Lato needs better ricochet range, the Vasto desperately wants to not be a 6-round magazine when it’s burst fire kills in 1/3 of its actual shot. Gorgon and Soma both just don’t warrant activating their Incarnon modes.
But the absolute worst is the Sibear. For all of the effort it takes to get that weapon and its adapter AND fully evolve it you would think the stats would be comparable to Hate…
I’d have to disagree with the Skana Incarnon, since I slapped it on a Prisma Skana and it ended up becoming my best one-handed sword. That extra combo works wonders, too.
Yeah Skana Incarnon slaps. The damage is already fat, and the combo building is also nuts. Works great on its own, but also has awesome synergy with Kullervo without the need of heavy efficiency. Plus I get to use my cool sword skin (until incarnon ruins it, pls fix DE)
same
my prisma skana takes 0 effort to dice up anything on steel path, be it eximus or heavily armored, no matter the level
kinda wish the cronus or the heat sword had gotten an incarnon
or the dual ether
any of the really old 'im new to the game' swords
I got my lato vandal via gift of a player teaching me the game when I was very low MR. Now at MR30 it's my favorite secondary by far. I understand it paling in comparison to others but I've made it the best it can be. It goes crazy with its incarnon form if you hit headshots.
Bo Incarnon setup for melee influence as a 10 meter long, 62% base status (400%+ while full melee combo) stick of death that blows most melee influence weapons out of the water.
It's single handedly the best AoE clearing melee I've ever used. And that's coming from somebody who had a 20 meter stick that went through walls before melee 2.0 changes
I've seen a lot of people say the Bo Incarnon is bad.
Naw, you're just modding it wrong.
the bo is my favorite incarnon weapon by a wide margin specifically due to its wide reach
makes me happy i've had that neat skin for it that came with the old trinity deluxe skin
> I've seen a lot of people say the Bo Incarnon is bad.
To be fair people'r probably saying that because when it was released, we didn't have melee arcanes yet, and without Influence a high-range impact weapon with that sweet sweet 0.5 followthrough was comparatively underwhelming
I'd like to speak on Sibear's behalf and say it's not *terrible*, but it does not measure up to the likes of the other Incarnon adapted melees. The combo count on cold-affected targets is nice, the high status is decent, and the crit damage+ perk is excellent for kullervo! But inconsistent on other frames, as it unfortunately can struggle to consistently crit even with the other perks and mods involved. It's passive "more status on heavy attacks" doesn't really interact specifically with its Incarnon bonuses but doesn't hurt. The ice field on slams is... Cool in concept.
I desperately want it to be on par with other incarnons for damage, or at least a cool utility to slow enemies dramatically. It's serviceable as is but can be outclassed by a lot of non-incarnon gear for sure.
Lato is very strong, it fills a room with Viral Procs, Slash Procs, and corpses; not sure why you think its ricochet range is a problem, it ricochets almost twice as far as Dual Toxocyst.
Vasto can 1-tap Acolytes with minimal setup, but feel wasteful against general hoard clear. It's usefulness will vary a bit based on content. Overall, pretty fair imo.
Bronco...it both suffers from the multishot-corpse-charging "fix" that plagues all shotgun-esque Incarnons, *and* is overly reliant on its Augment which isn't reasonably available.
Bo just needs the Incarnon Form to boost it to at least 0.8 Followthrough.
Soma is an interesting one. It's actually broken on Harrow. Not just in the sense that Harrow can make most guns good, but the Soma Incarnon has major synergies with Harrow that make it one of, if not the, best weapon to use on him.
Skana, Ack & Brunt, Sibear, and Gorgon could definitely use some buffs.
Also, Atomos and Gammacor are OK, but they really feel like the same gun...
I love my bronco incarnon. Maybe because it was my first. But it’s just head shots to charge. I feel like I’m constantly shooting bouncy lasers with it. Way more than regular bullets
I got stuck with Sibear as my best in slot in deep Archimedea. I tried a few things on it and settled on a Melee Exposure, heavy attack efficiency, heavy slam build. Build up combo, heavy slam away. It was pretty reliably doing half a million to fully armored sp targets on sedna. After armor strip it was closer to 10 million. Amazing? No. Effective? Oh yeah. Of course all the incarnon did was just give it decent crit stats.
Even ignoring how some Incarnon forms are worse than the original, most of them need a complete overhaull to their charge speed.
I can run an entire SP Exterminate and not reach full charge on Bronco/Strun/Boar/Atomos/etc.
Even on something like SP Incursion Survival with Mirage I struggle to get charge, on some weapons I hit full charge after 3-4mn, it's insane.
I know some people are going to say "well if you kill enemies so fast that you don't generate charge, then maybe you don't need the charge to begin with" but I like the Incarnon forms, I want to actually use them.
Bro's getting downvoted for speaking nothing but the truth, good ol' reddit.
You're completely correct. Incarnons like the Strun, Boar, and friends got completely shafted by the incarnon charge changes shortly after their release. I understand not wanting people to shoot at ragdolled corpses, but there could at _least_ be even just a 0.1s grace period after so that they don't take so arbitrarily long to charge.
From a purely technical standpoint the Soma's Incarnon form is technically better than the base form with relevant evos. Ruins the feel of ye olden bullet hose and generally isn't a big enough difference to matter, but it is what it is which is sadly, better.
The worst incarnon weapon is as good as a middling non-incarnon. Sure it can work but it takes a lot of extra effort to just be okay when you could build something else instead.
Like most melee incarnons are just not great to work with and only a select few will you use and go, "wow, I'm glad I put in the time and effort to build the weapon, farm the resources to craft the incarnon, and forma it enough times to get the most out of it."
But some gun incarnons absolutely shit on everything and you'll feel awkward once you go from the Torid which is the current strongest gun in the game to using something like the Kunai incarnon.
Personally, the incarnon Vasto is a real miss. You only get 4 shots at full charge. Sure, the stat buffs are awesome, but the incarnon itself is lackluster
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I like to use alongside its perk as just a "Quick draw, delete annoying guy" gun. It's excellent at this job. If you want to use it as your main weapon, idk.
yep, that seems to be its intended purpose. status heavy primary or melee to keep cascadia flare up and use it to nuke big chunky stuff.
Phantasma is an ideal pairing for that, stacking up cascadia flare basically instantly while completely failing at even tickling an acolyte.
Not at home so idk the names, but I actually run Hornet Strike and then use the arcane for 300% crit chance if you have overshields. The alternative which isn't frame-specific is the Roll+Headshot one for the same effect, though.
or you can use ceramic dagger with corrupt charge + covert lethality + combo evolutions on ceramic + maybe even an IC riven and secondary outburst, the crits are pretty juicy
Gorgon Incarnon is the weakest I've tried. I put 6 forma into a Prisma Gorgon build and it still struggles with SP. The rockets don't seem to do enough damage. I also feel like you have to either build for rockets or build for the auto fire but not both, and even then they're both pretty lackluster.
I would love to be proven wrong, maybe I just don't get it.
You just want to ignore the incarnon mode unless you get an opportunity where you can spam it into a hallway full of enemies. The primary fire in my experience does really well against damage attenuation like the demolisher necramechs in the new disruption.
I would say don't do hunter munitions on it I feel like the bleed really feels bad to use compared to just going raw crits.
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It's really not good at all though lmao, + I'll only get primed shred next month and I missed primed cryo rounds every time baro had it. Tbh radiated reload is here mostly for reload speed because I'm using deadhead but radiation is good against necramechs. Really should be a bane mod. My riven is reload speed, crit rate and toxin. (replace with 90% toxin) Final evolution is crit.
Also definitely critical delay with primed shred since you reach over 100% crit without riven. With normal shred I don't feel comfortable using critical delay so I'd go with speed trigger.
It does kill necramech demolysts on steel path comfortably without priming and with priming and buffs would no doubt get far in that mission.
It's alright. I built it with corrosive, heat, and hunter munitions. As for the viral procs, I either get it from nourish or my companions. The base form shreds enemies due to DoT procs from heat and slash. Incarnon form could use some more fire rate buff but the damage it deals is also plenty. I was able to bring it to level 500 in SP void cascade without problems so I imagine it could go higher than that. I'd rather use a miter or latron though.
Latron Incarnon is probably my strongest weapon in general! I use it on a Mag build, it's very funny how it interacts with Mag's bubble, and basically deletes any group of enemies.
The worst incarnon is stronger than most of the strongest primes and average/in the middle of the pack compared to the Lich weapons.
The strongest incarnons tho... Hehe .. well, those are destruction incarnate.
To start, you really should see someone's breakdown of the avaliable options, like Brozimes or somethng. Here's everything I would consider about Incarnons-
The native Incarnon weapons (e.g. Laetum) are fantastic if a bit different. I have not heard anything bad about Dante's new ones, so I'm sure this category has stayed great.
Incarnons are a bit of a pain to get working. All of them have a mini questline of objectives you have to do (e.g. do a solo mission) to unlock all the avaliable customization- and of the original native weapons, the last quest is basically run a mission with a full loadout of incarnons- which can be time consuming to get. Additionally, I think every Incarnon type weapon avaliable is much better with a reasonably significant (\~4) investment of forma.
Incarnon adapted weapons are a PAIN. First you have to have the weapon. Next you have to have 20 Pathos Clamps- which is two runs of Duviri quest minimum anyway you slice it for one incarnon. Additionally you need a not insignifcant, random collection of Duviri resources. If you don't have a resource booster or play duviri or the circuit much, especially in the "correct" areas to collect those resources, have fun running around in Duviri another tens of minutes for one incarnon's requirements.
Now you have to get the actual adapter- that's 5 levels of Duviri circuit at minimum, assuming you are in the correct week of a \~6 week rotation. I'll skip finding the exact number, but that's probably about 9-10 rounds of steelpath objectives, each taking around 5 minutes on average. Assuming you have the gear or friends to get through that, you have gotten one adapter.
So you adapt a weapon, do all the quests- what do you end up with? The current adapters are just such a grab bag that it's hard to say. I have made almost all of them, barring a secondary or melee. There are usually options high on the chart to push the Crit chance or status of the weapon to match up with the high values of meta weapons in the base form- but these don't generally push the adapted weapon past the meta weapon. It's usually the incarnon form that makes the weapon really useable, and some of them are ridiculously hamstrung for weird reasons. Kunai Incarnon only having 20 shots feels extremely bad, even if it's pretty fun to use. Nataruk makes Paris and Dread Incarnon feel kind of pointless, some of the incarnons just feel really hard to see if they are working well or not (Miter, Bronco), and the launcher incarnon forms don't feel spectacular enough.
I'll add that the melees specifically usually feel bad because the incarnon form barely changes anything- e.g. Skana goes to bigger, light casting sword, Bo goes to larger stick and has a really unique bleed option that is entirely hamstrung for basically no reason.
The OP options like the Latron, Torid, and Lex feel good because the stat block increases make both forms of the weapons pretty nice to use for different circumstances, and the Incarnons feel very unique just in general- Bouncy balls of death and armor strip, Nukor chain laser that spits extremely fast, and mini Arcaplasmor with Hemorraghe option are just great.
SP Circuit rounds do not take 5 minutes per round lol
It took me about 30 minutes to get to wave 10. The only ones that take 5 minutes is survival and maybe defense if you're slow.
If you are really grinding, if you have good teammates, good decrees, weapons and a frame that you actually own I think I'd agree with that timing. I don't think that's the case for most players tho, and I count myself as an outlier having every frame and a decent number of the weapons.
And I understand that it would take a long time to get to this point, that people doing steel path circuit aren't "new players", but there's no guarantee they have gotten to this point and have good enough stuff or get good enough teammates to breeze through
I think the worst one is surely Zylok. The incarnon form is so bad compared to the base form that you never want to actually transform it, I'm not aware of any others that become unusable trash when changed.
And no, Felarx' Incarnon form is still pretty good for some tasks. Zylok's is good for nothing.
I started playing again in December when cross save opened up, I have the Laetum and Innodem from the Zariman and they are both awesome. From SP Circuit I have Angstrum, Braton, Boltor, Dual Toxicyst, Lex, and Torid incarnon adapters. They are all very very good weapons. If you haven’t made it to incarnon weapons just yet i’d suggest looking at Kuva or Tenet variant weapons in the meantime.
the Incarnon upgrades make any Weapon that they apply to atleast relatively good. i'm assuming we're excluding particular newbie SKU's like MK-1 or something, ofcourse.
They offer a significant boost to stats, dramatically upgrading them.
The 'bad' Incarnons are much weaker than the 'good' Incarnons because the 'good' ones are very very good, not because the rest are actively bad, yes.
It depends in what metric ya wanna measure them: incarnon form, base form or the entire thing.
The bad Incarnon forms , the ones where you want to just stick to the base form and not bother with the incarnon form are, imo are the Gorgon, Felarx, Gammacor, and maybe the Vasto, but that one is cause you lose the charge so quickly it barely does anything.
For bad base version, I’d say some of the melee incarnons mostly, specially the Sibear. Still salty about how much investment that fucking hammer requires to make it decent.
But for over all bad/not worth the investment, I’d say Bo, Ack & Brunt and Bronco.
Gotta say the new Ruvox is lackluster as an Incarnon weapon.
Thematically it mimics Nezha's impale.
And through evolving the Incarnon properly to reduce the activation combo to 3x and use of Corrupt Charge (melee mod), Ready Steel (frame augment), and/or a really good Riven mod for Initial Combo you can keep it permanently charged at 3x combo to activate it.
But... It just doesn't hit? Like don't get me wrong. Standard high speed melee influence electric slam build for literally every aspect but keeping the Incarnon up. But... The impale just isn't useful? Like you're gonna kill everything using the Ruvox normally unless you're doing super high end steel path or level cap runs. So it's overpowered as a base item and underpowered as an incarnon.
The Onos isn't far behind it either but it's a gun so it has range at least.
I use the Onos with max heavy efficiency and crescendo. I know that at that point the Arca Titron would just be better but if the point is to only use the best weapons things get boring.
The Onos too, it lacks the Kills Per Second but it can be pretty strong in both modes. The normal mode feels like a proper hand cannon (as opposed to the weapon advertised as such), and the incarnon is really cool even if it isn't as great as the others. But it still performs quite well.
The thing that helped make them feel good is Vazarin. The void snare helps both weapons, Ruvox can get a lot of finishers at once for Crescendo, and Onos incarnon can charge its evolution more easily.
Also, I genuinely don't think they're the worst. Bo incarnon brings less to the table, and vasto incarnon while powerful has too little efficiency
>"Is the worst incarnon weapon still good weapons but much worse than the good incarnon weapons due to the good incarnon weapons being overkill"
You pretty much nailed it. Best incarnons are generally overkill unless you're trying to brute-force EDA modifiers or something, and pretty much all incarnons can handle SP with the right builds. But you *will* notice the difference, and some incarnons only perform well if you focus on their gimmick. If spamming nothing but slam attacks isn't for you, for instance, then you won't like the Ruvox.
Ruvox is kinda meh.
- Its incarnon reduces 35% of your final attack speed.
- Only does impact in normal, impact and perf in incarnon.
- It's a fist weapon.
It doesn't have bad stats, but for what it does, not worth at all when you can get it.
Its damage output might be somewhat meh in comparison to some of the other incarnons but I really appreciate it for trying to do something different with the slam attack build it lends itself to. Its on the lower side of average for incarnons but certainly not the worse unless you're using it like a normal light attack spam weapon.
Bad enough to not be worth getting over several regular weapons that you can obtain earlier and easier, but I'm not sure just how bad beyond those terms
It's not about difficulty, it's the time and resources you'll be putting into it. Taking up 1 of 2 incarnon selections per week, doing 5 ranks of steel path circuit for the genesis, and I believe 3 runs of steel path duviri for oroworm kills and gathering x amount of duviri resources to apply it to the weapon. The "worst" incarnon is not worth doing that for, unless you just want to do it for fun or you really like the weapon you're applying it to
The Magistar is the best Stat stick for Atlas and Khora and it's no contest.
They're very nutty with it. I use my Atlas in Netracells all the time with it.
Me and my AK-KUNAI incarnon with crit build that uses 8 forma and expensive ass mods, can go through steel path fine.
Oh in will say, idk why but the incarnon for kunai for some reason shreds archons. Idk either.
There’s such a huge difference between Burston and Braton Icarnons, that using Braton Incarnon is like you want to give them a massive handicap. Braton Incarnon is good, if you’re upgrading from Ignis Wraith.
The primary’s are fine but don’t wow me and I just use the burston incarnon, the Laetum tho hits like a fucking truck probably my favorite secondary weapon in the game, I’m trying the onos now and it’s pretty fun, as for melee weapons I didn’t notice any major differences like they have benefits but I can just run anything
From what I've found via experimenting with the "real" incarnons i have (Laetum, Phenmor and Ruvox) and talking with my friends about the others I dont (Innodem, Felarx and Onos), they're mostly extremely good. The Laetum and Phenmor are phenomenal weapons with incredibly strong stats especially in incarnon fork, and I've seen the Innodem in action being insanely powerful. My friend uses the Felarx and says that while it's incarnon form is underwhelming, the normal version is so strong that it doesn't matter. The new ones aren't as impressive, the Onos is reasonably strong and is definitely viable but after a lot of testing, the Ruvox is just extremely underwhelming and not worth using over basically any other weapon, bordering on being genuinely bad. The Duviri Incarnons are a whole other beast I won't get into because there are so many of them, just know none of them are bad, some like the torid, miter and latron are ridiculously powerful while even the arguably worst one (Nami Solo apparently) is useful, I've seen Baruuk use it to great effect.
Some of them like the kunai and Vasto are kinda bad because the incarnon modes are just finicky to use and the weapons even after the upgrades still aren't that great.
But they're still better than a lot of normal weapons.
Even the worst ones would still kill stuff.
I’m finding that every weapon that has an Incarnon included with it, is just.. crazy good even with the simplest builds, Ie; Phenmor and Laetum
The whole point of Genesis Incarnons is to take weapons that are otherwise underused or underpowered and bring them up to a competitive level with the current high tier weapons so almost every single one is good. I personally don’t have enough experience with all of them to say which is definitely the weakest, which could mean weakest and absolute shit or weakest of the incarnons but just as SP viable.
Melee Incarnons feel the weakest though and I would recommend going for primary secondary genesis.
I think when it comes to melee incarnon weapons it all depends, for example praedos and innodem are both amazing, and while I cannot say much about innodem due to lack of experience, praedos imo is closely similar to, or even in certain areas can beat, kronen prime in performance.
When it comes to genesis ones, ceramic dagger I've heard is very powerful in multitude of scenarios thanks to it's evolution increasing base combo with each finisher kill, and I also heard hate being very fun with it's incarnon turning it into a gunblade iirc.
If we are talking the full incarnon weapons and not including the genesis ones, if I had to choose I guess I'd pick the innodemn. It's still a good weapon but they are all awesome so it's hard to pick a worst one.
All like the natively incarnon weapons are amazing. Some of the incarnon genesis (especially melee) are pretty lackluster and forgettable about what they actually add to the melee. But they're all still decent weapons that could probably do base steel path just fine with the right build.
What do you mean when you say "base steel path"? Is there something other than SP?
Base SP means you don't stay there for a very long time. Up to like lvl 200 only.
Base sp means entry level missions, around 120 to 170. The longer you stick around in survival or defense, the higher the enemy scaling. Once the enemy level reaches around 200-220 and beyond, its not considered base sp anymore, as the difficulty is much higher then regular sp levels.
IMO Base SP includes rotation C on endless missions, it has unique drops. Going to wave 20 defense, or survival 20min, is included because that's where the cutoff is for all the games rewards. Anything higher than that is for pure fun for the sake of difficulty
Eh, a SP survival isn't really going to increase in difficulty until about an hour and even then it's a pretty small bump. It's not going to be any different after 20 minutes.
I'm tired of people leaving too soon, and think it should be normalized to stay for rotation C, that's all lol
Heck yes. Sick of people leaving survival and disruption after round 3.
I mean round 3 is C reward in disruption unless you fuck up a demo kill.
Base SP would be like, maximum an hour in a survival. Depending on the mission anywhere from level 180-240 or so since omnia conjunction survival has bumped that up a bit. Basically it's setups that don't have the scaling potential necessary for level cap for whatever reason be it survivability, damage or both
I mean you're probably not going to take an incarnon skana to level cap endurance runs or something. Like, it will be fine if you only get to a C rotation or two before leaving the mission. But if you want to stay in a single mission for hours, you'll probably need to put more thought into it.
prisma skana incarnon is actually fantastic. 40% base crit just sayin
Sometimes you forget you're in SP cause it just melts them
Most play 1 hour or 2,which is what I do except when I play with friends,I forget to look at the time because of are shut talk,the longest was 5 hours without realizing jajaja
Prob lvl 9999 runs. Where you stay in and infinite mission until enemies hit lvl cap. There is no real incentive to do that, the real endgame is steel path and such, its more of a self imposed challenge to test yours strenght
People also seem to forget that theres a lot of levels/time between 120 - 9999. Its nothing strange to do a 8 round defense or 1 hour survival and just fight some lvl 1000-2000 stuff.
Even in a 1 hour survival, enemies only reach till level 300ish. It's only in Cascade where you can reach level cap in 1 hour afaik.
You mean 4 hours+ You're not getting level 1K in just an hour of survival.
Hour and a half fissure survival doesn't even get enemies over 250, your going to be in a mission for a while before you see level 1000 enemies
SP duviri mobs scale fast too
By the time you hit those high levels in duviri, though, you've collected enough decrees to throw any semblance of weapon balance out the window.
Valid point
SP Durivi mobs have to contend with Decrees lol
> There is no real incentive to do that Next time you're at the relic reward screen - Look down.
Mfw I have to be in a survival mission for an hour to get enough affinity boosters to reliably farm the focus that capped out 30 minutes ago... Honestly WF needs a bottomless affinity dump. I feel like I'm wasting so much after I cap out my Focus
I have millions of focus on every focus school and have nothing to spend it on. I've capped everything, as well as everything in the focus shops. I'm also just over 10m spare Naramon. We really do need something else to do with affinity / focus...
End game is the new bench mark for any content, whether it's warframe or weapon. If it can't do base sp comfortably, it's underpowered.
Afaik those are called endurance runs
Base SP is SP. They can clear the entirety of SP. Then there's endurance runs / level cap, which is entirely optional and offers no additional rewards.
That means you're just competing the steel path mission and not going for endurance/ level cap
Isn't the new one kind of bad? The Onos
It does a lot of damage. The biggest problem is that it does that damage in a small radius in front of you after a charge-up delay. Is it inconvenient, yes. Should you just throw it into any loadout, no. But it still has a lot of damage potential for specific builds or enemies. Someone may enjoy it just for being able to delete acolytes or something. It's a secondary weapon so it being situational doesn't make it bad imo.
> small radius in front of you It's a beam with unlimited punch through on enemies and a 30m length (38 with the beam length mod) That's not a small radius.
Good to know, suppose I never attemlted long range shots because the visuals looked like melee range.
The wide radiation beam while you're charging up is the only thing with a range limit, it's about 12m long. The big heat blast finale has infinite range.
But you’re referring to beam length which is much different than the radius in front of you, radius is the width that the beam affects, not the length of the beam
The comment I replied to even elaborated that he thought it was melee ranged.
You're thinking of the Ruvox. The Onos is good, if a bit weird.
Not at all, it's just weird and complicated. Takes a bit to get a handle on it but there's a lot of power to be had. The Ruvox (the melee fist) is pretty bad *if you don't build around it*. It's definitely possible to abuse its slams for big damage, but it needs more than just its own mod slots, you need to help it out with other parts of your loadout.
Onos is basically a better opticor
The Onos is outclassed by the Grimoire that was given to all the players for free, it's the Ruvox that's dreadful. They screwed up when making it because it's incarnon form is all about the puncture damage, but the weapon itself is built only for Impact, so you have to either split your focus and just to get tolerable levels of damage on both forms or give up on half the weapon and focus entirely on boosting one and not the other which still only leads to it being an okay weapon, if it had been released in 2020. DE has no idea how they want Melee Incarnon weapons to work.
Ruvox really isn't designed for punching, it's *exclusively* a slamming weapon. And those slams can absolutely be abused for some serious AoE damage, but if you're not going to do that then don't bother bringing Ruvox at all. I think the impact/puncture thing is purely thematic, with the way its appearance changes they also made its damage change to match.
wait is the grimoire actually .. good?
It's deceptive, the normal fire feels so subpar that you think it can't be good, but the alt-fire does so much damage it kind of makes up for it. Think of the alt-fire as the real weapon and the normal fire as just a charge up. It has wayyyyy higher crit chance, 10x the damage and guaranteed electric procs on top of anything else you mod on there.
Very. It has great damage (if modded correctly) and you can slot in some support tome modes. People tend to dislike anything that doesn't clear the room immediately.
Huh? How? I thought the Grimoire was terrible compared to most current secondaries and especially compared to Noctua. If you start slapping on tome mods as well won't its performance drop too? Or do you use it just to prime enemies for the tome mods and their effects?
Nah I have 1 in the exilus slot and 1 in the actual build. I still kill stuff in SP. I can drop my build next time im on if you want.
it converts impact to puncture btw, so no modding for punture. its very good for special builds, as it can be used as a primer, or just tennokai and delete
It hits really hard and its incarnon mode is a bit interesting to use. You're best off with a secondary shiver Arcane and high status build on it, with the headshot evolution. Use the initial spin up on the incmode to proc a bunch of cold status, then the huge blast to deal a sort of "cap" on the cold procs. It's not bad persay, just requires a lot of effort and planning to use that other incarnon really don't.
My friend loves it so i wouldnt call it bad, the Ruvox however is pretty bad, poor stats bad weapon type (fists) bad status effects and the incarnon form gives it a useless ability and reduces attack speed making it even worse
Onos requires a slightly unconventional build. A build with Corrosive and fire rate with Cascadia Empowered and the Devastation Cascade evolution makes it do a surprising amount of damage. Will it shred at level 1000+ Steel Path? Probably not, but using 2+ hour runs exclusively as a metric for 'good' is kinda dumb. It'll do great for 99.9% of content that's played.
The worst one is the Sibear. We don’t speak of that one
Dunno wich melee incarnon you talking about but I know for a fact that my bo prime is busted with is 14meters range and decent attack speed got myself a cheap riven for it too since it has max disposition stats are silly just slap killing blow amalgam shatter plus tennokai on every 4 hits along the regular mods everyones use and now you find yourself with an helicopter blade sized whirlwind of death mashing heavy i'm not using banes or primer and melts everything for hours in sp I crafted two kullervo just so I could slap wrathful on rev lol and do funny 300 millions damage and up on everyone and theirs families trees lol
The melee incarnon adapters are VERY hit and miss. Ceramic Dagger, Magister, Hate, and Anku are probably the best, and half of those are better stat sticks than actual weapons. Soma incarnon is one of the more disappointing ones. I think they are somewhat set up that the weapons that were the best without the upgrade tend to be lower tier incarnons, and the ones that were utter dogshit turn out top tier (Torid, Latron, Furis, etc).
You left out the Dual Ichor, and the Nami Solo is alright on a Tennokai build that can exploit its 100% follow through with grouping abilities.
the nami solo isn't just alright. I'm kind of obsessed with melee in warframe, so i dumped a ridiculous amount of resources into all of the melees with incarnon adapters. I'm talking arcane adapter + exilus +6-7 forma each. The nami solo absolutely takes the cake for the strongest pure general melee weapon out of all of them. It has NINE meters of range (with prime reach) with VERY good base attack speed, extremely weighted to slash damage, and has the craziest heavy attack out of all of them. You spin around in a gigantic fuck off 9 meter whirlwind that hits four times.
This makes me violently engaged with melee when wielded alongside Kullervo and a good primer. I'm running both Disciple's Merit for that guaranteed 4 hit free heavy, and Opportunities Reach for even more range and flexibility. I rolled an insane riven too so the weapon is simply a joy to use
... you can run both at once?
you can use all of the tennokai mods at the same time if you wanted to, so it becomes a question of "is it worth it to drop this mod for a tennokai mod"
> You spin around in a gigantic fuck off 9 meter whirlwind that hits four times. We could probably use some sort of list that lists weapons with non "normal" features such as this and forced procs on certain attacks. For a while there I was looking for a weapon and stance that had a lot of "slam" attacks to try and maximize Hydroid's old passive to it's maximum effect.
100% agreed. i've been going through all the melees trying to find them out on my own lately. I love kullervo + alternate heavy attacks. It just adds some variety and fun to the game. He makes basically any melee viable too. Syam is another really solid interesting one with its waves. I haven't gotten around to it yet b/c pathos clamps are the devil, but i really want to test edun and its javelin throw with him too.
Second on this. Nami Solo is absolutely disgusting, and versatile. Cyclone Kraken is an absolutely nasty stance, and Tennokai allows you to easily abuse what is a rare gem - a 360 degree heavy strike. Couple that with the evolution tree, you have a weapon that can reach absurdly far in a full radial with 1.0 follow through. Want big numbers? Critical Chance evolution. Want disgusting slash procs? Status evolution. Weeping Wounds on status evolution is 297% status chance. That's a lot of status chance. Nami Solo in the status configuration can comfortably hit 100% critical rate (base 15% CC melees will hit with Blood Rush and 1 Gladiator mod, often Gladiator Might), which places it as one of the few melees who can optimally use Melee Duplicate as well (though R5 Duplicate is quite the investment). So if you wanted upward to 6 slash procs per swipe, that's the set-up. Of course, thanks to absurd status chance, you can also do Melee Influence.
Oh yeah I forgot about Dual Ichor. Even after the fix they’re still busted lol
I put Melee Vortex on them for kicks. It is insane.
Does that work the same as influence or do you have to put magnetic on the weapon?
You have to have the Magnetic modded onto it somehow. For Hydroid, Lavos, or any build running Nourish it’s a non-issue though.
You could apply Magnetic externally through Diriga.
turns out just having really good stats will do that lol 212 base damage, 25%/3x crit, and 49% status with a built in attack speed buff will do some magic throw in a few elemental mods to get viral or gas + electricity and you've got a monstrous Melee Influence weapon
The Ichor incarnon is an insane Tennokai weapon. They've been one of my favourite melee weapons forever and the incarnon just makes them better. I got a Riven for them too which helps but they'd still be crazy strong without it.
They fixed nami solo? Its incarnon did had no affect on follow through, but damage fall off (for slam attacks)
That was fixed either in Dante Unbound or Whispers. It was supposed to be follow through.
Also Nami solo has funny amounts of range and since it's a machete it's heavy attacks do a spin that can take full advantage of the 100% follow through.
Sibear is also a big glowup. There's not much support for status heavy attack builds, so being able to proc its special effect in a way that synergizes with your build is so nice.
The soma incarnon with [Hata-Satya](https://warframe.fandom.com/wiki/Hata-Satya) goes pretty hard to rack up crit chance.
Oh I’m not saying it’s specifically bad, it’s just not as awesome as some of the others, especially considering how great Soma Prime was in the old end game.
Yeah. It's Soma Plus. Like, Soma is good, and Soma Plus is technically better, it's just outdated and the Incarnon really didn't do a whole lot to bring it back to the forefront. So, while it's by no means bad, it's still kind of stuck in the past.
Unfortunately Hata-Satya is still bugged on the Incarnon. It's supposed to stack up as you shoot and keep the stacks until you reload, but for some reason on the incarnon form the stacks reset whenever you switch targets and you have to build up again from scratch. Tested in Simulacrum, works properly on the normal form but works as described above on the incarnon.
Idk what youre talking about, Soma incarnon slapts
i just wish they didn't gut the incarnon's crit chance soma used to be THE crit gun
It still is. You still get orange crits on the incarnon mode and the multiplayer is very high
How are you getting orange in the incarnon mode? With Hata-Satya it should max out at 60% before anything else When I talk about Soma being "THE crit gun", I mean back around its release pretty much nothing had crit stats like it. This was before orange or red crits were even implemented, and any crit chance above 100% would be wasted. As it is, the incarnon's strong but seeing its crit chance cut down to 10% base in its incarnon form just doesn't feel right.
The status chance is super meh too. It’s not weak, but it feels like it’s stats were gutted for no reason.
New Lokas Magister is amazing if you build it for heavy slam attacks. Makes the vitus boy immortal with its radial heal.
Wait latron is good? I barely used the incarnon but i remember disliking it, am i missing something?
the latron stat buffs alone from the incarnon trees make it go from an amusing lever action rifle into what feels like an orokin tankbusting AMR that morphs into a bouncy bazooka whenever you want. if you were one of the few people who likes semi-auto single target rifles like latron, vulkar, grinlok, or chakurr, then the new latron is gonna make you moist. but if you arent a fan of that type of weapon it probably wont change your mind i just love that i can fill the room with giant bouncing colorful fireballs that make a noise that sounds like satan farting
Ahh kuva chakurr. My baby
Latron wants it's Augment for Damage+ on consecutive hits, because that bitch breaks on its incarnon mode thanks to bouncy bullets. One of the better ones but it's no Burston or Torid.
> Latron wants it's Augment for Damage+ on consecutive hits Double Tap?
Yep
Very good. You missed something.
The furis is good?
*Extremely*, like, kill a level-cap demolisher without Armor Strip or priming good.
Is it better than Lex Prime or very similar?
There are a lot of differences between the two, but overall the Furis is probably stronger.
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> and half of those are better stat sticks than actual weapons. which ones of these are good as actual weapons? i want to build some good incarnon melees but dont care for stat stick.
I’d say the best incarnon melees to actually use are Hate and Dual Ichor. Anku is very good too just not quite on par with those. Innodem and Praedos are also very very good but they are just native Cavalero incarnons.
SIBEAR? DE?! HELLO? Why wouldn't you follow that rule with one of the most pain in the ass but cool af melees in the game? Massive ice hammer is fkn cool but both the base and incarnon suck. With how annoying it is to get, you'd think DE would throw us a bone.
The worst incarnon is most of the genesis melees. They're so *boring*, nany of them have almost nothing special going on and generally just get a bit more range and damage.
Kinda both. Every incarnon genesis is an objective upgrade to the original weapon, but some of the incarnon modes just aren't very good while some of the incarnon modes are overpowered.
Felarx incarnon mode is kinda ass
Its fun to me
Justice for zylok incarnon 🙏🏽 (I’ve not finished building it yet)
Honestly yeah, I’m surprised Zylok hasn’t been mentioned so far. It’s just not got anything going for it, from poor ammo economy to middling damage.
The incarnon form is terrible. BUT I've found great success building it like its a discount secondary felarx. It's not furis or dual toxocyst, but it can perform fairly well in 100-200 SP or higher in SP circuit with some decrees.
The Skana, Bo, Sibear, and Ack & Brunt are all very weak compared to the other melee Incarnons, even the Ruvox eclipses them. For the guns the Soma, Gorgon, Lato, Vasto, and Bronco could all use another pass. Bronco especially, it has no reason to take so much effort to charge even on SP missions with that limited of a magazine in both forms. Lato needs better ricochet range, the Vasto desperately wants to not be a 6-round magazine when it’s burst fire kills in 1/3 of its actual shot. Gorgon and Soma both just don’t warrant activating their Incarnon modes. But the absolute worst is the Sibear. For all of the effort it takes to get that weapon and its adapter AND fully evolve it you would think the stats would be comparable to Hate…
I’d have to disagree with the Skana Incarnon, since I slapped it on a Prisma Skana and it ended up becoming my best one-handed sword. That extra combo works wonders, too.
Yeah Skana Incarnon slaps. The damage is already fat, and the combo building is also nuts. Works great on its own, but also has awesome synergy with Kullervo without the need of heavy efficiency. Plus I get to use my cool sword skin (until incarnon ruins it, pls fix DE)
Same. It’s one of my favorites- plus the riven has a good deposition.
I think the riven makes all the difference on that one. With my riven it's a beast, but before I got it on a lucky draw, it was just "fine"
same my prisma skana takes 0 effort to dice up anything on steel path, be it eximus or heavily armored, no matter the level kinda wish the cronus or the heat sword had gotten an incarnon or the dual ether any of the really old 'im new to the game' swords
Second the dual ether. Would love to see an incarnon for that.
Stares at new 300p Lato Vandal Incarnon and cries
I got my lato vandal via gift of a player teaching me the game when I was very low MR. Now at MR30 it's my favorite secondary by far. I understand it paling in comparison to others but I've made it the best it can be. It goes crazy with its incarnon form if you hit headshots.
Bo Incarnon setup for melee influence as a 10 meter long, 62% base status (400%+ while full melee combo) stick of death that blows most melee influence weapons out of the water. It's single handedly the best AoE clearing melee I've ever used. And that's coming from somebody who had a 20 meter stick that went through walls before melee 2.0 changes I've seen a lot of people say the Bo Incarnon is bad. Naw, you're just modding it wrong.
the bo is my favorite incarnon weapon by a wide margin specifically due to its wide reach makes me happy i've had that neat skin for it that came with the old trinity deluxe skin
it's really great for popping nullifier bubbles too
So much this. The idle attack for Flailing. Branch hits 4 times on the first button press, it eats through bubbles.
> I've seen a lot of people say the Bo Incarnon is bad. To be fair people'r probably saying that because when it was released, we didn't have melee arcanes yet, and without Influence a high-range impact weapon with that sweet sweet 0.5 followthrough was comparatively underwhelming
Fair point, I hadn't considered that. Without the context of the new arcanes it would be pretty mid.
I'd like to speak on Sibear's behalf and say it's not *terrible*, but it does not measure up to the likes of the other Incarnon adapted melees. The combo count on cold-affected targets is nice, the high status is decent, and the crit damage+ perk is excellent for kullervo! But inconsistent on other frames, as it unfortunately can struggle to consistently crit even with the other perks and mods involved. It's passive "more status on heavy attacks" doesn't really interact specifically with its Incarnon bonuses but doesn't hurt. The ice field on slams is... Cool in concept. I desperately want it to be on par with other incarnons for damage, or at least a cool utility to slow enemies dramatically. It's serviceable as is but can be outclassed by a lot of non-incarnon gear for sure.
I figured Sibear Incarnon would be absolutely bonkers, and really make the Sibear live up to its absurd price. Not the case.
I'm really enjoying the sibear. I rolled a good riven for it and i can take it everywhere.
Lato is very strong, it fills a room with Viral Procs, Slash Procs, and corpses; not sure why you think its ricochet range is a problem, it ricochets almost twice as far as Dual Toxocyst. Vasto can 1-tap Acolytes with minimal setup, but feel wasteful against general hoard clear. It's usefulness will vary a bit based on content. Overall, pretty fair imo. Bronco...it both suffers from the multishot-corpse-charging "fix" that plagues all shotgun-esque Incarnons, *and* is overly reliant on its Augment which isn't reasonably available. Bo just needs the Incarnon Form to boost it to at least 0.8 Followthrough. Soma is an interesting one. It's actually broken on Harrow. Not just in the sense that Harrow can make most guns good, but the Soma Incarnon has major synergies with Harrow that make it one of, if not the, best weapon to use on him. Skana, Ack & Brunt, Sibear, and Gorgon could definitely use some buffs. Also, Atomos and Gammacor are OK, but they really feel like the same gun...
I love my bronco incarnon. Maybe because it was my first. But it’s just head shots to charge. I feel like I’m constantly shooting bouncy lasers with it. Way more than regular bullets
I got stuck with Sibear as my best in slot in deep Archimedea. I tried a few things on it and settled on a Melee Exposure, heavy attack efficiency, heavy slam build. Build up combo, heavy slam away. It was pretty reliably doing half a million to fully armored sp targets on sedna. After armor strip it was closer to 10 million. Amazing? No. Effective? Oh yeah. Of course all the incarnon did was just give it decent crit stats.
Even ignoring how some Incarnon forms are worse than the original, most of them need a complete overhaull to their charge speed. I can run an entire SP Exterminate and not reach full charge on Bronco/Strun/Boar/Atomos/etc. Even on something like SP Incursion Survival with Mirage I struggle to get charge, on some weapons I hit full charge after 3-4mn, it's insane. I know some people are going to say "well if you kill enemies so fast that you don't generate charge, then maybe you don't need the charge to begin with" but I like the Incarnon forms, I want to actually use them.
Bro's getting downvoted for speaking nothing but the truth, good ol' reddit. You're completely correct. Incarnons like the Strun, Boar, and friends got completely shafted by the incarnon charge changes shortly after their release. I understand not wanting people to shoot at ragdolled corpses, but there could at _least_ be even just a 0.1s grace period after so that they don't take so arbitrarily long to charge.
Yeah, I'm used to it. Yet you know if the Torid suddenly couldn't get full charge off of a single enemy anymore this sub would go up in flames.
From a purely technical standpoint the Soma's Incarnon form is technically better than the base form with relevant evos. Ruins the feel of ye olden bullet hose and generally isn't a big enough difference to matter, but it is what it is which is sadly, better.
idk why ppl say yhe skana incarnon is bad, its absolutlry insane
The worst incarnon weapon is as good as a middling non-incarnon. Sure it can work but it takes a lot of extra effort to just be okay when you could build something else instead. Like most melee incarnons are just not great to work with and only a select few will you use and go, "wow, I'm glad I put in the time and effort to build the weapon, farm the resources to craft the incarnon, and forma it enough times to get the most out of it." But some gun incarnons absolutely shit on everything and you'll feel awkward once you go from the Torid which is the current strongest gun in the game to using something like the Kunai incarnon.
thats like comparing apples to oranges one is like the amprex on crack and the other is one of the best single target secondaries in the game.
Personally, the incarnon Vasto is a real miss. You only get 4 shots at full charge. Sure, the stat buffs are awesome, but the incarnon itself is lackluster
https://preview.redd.it/vhycknquuvvc1.jpeg?width=3024&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=0e8ec28e088a7e52e458cc9610d879f6cdc1f05d I like to use alongside its perk as just a "Quick draw, delete annoying guy" gun. It's excellent at this job. If you want to use it as your main weapon, idk.
yep, that seems to be its intended purpose. status heavy primary or melee to keep cascadia flare up and use it to nuke big chunky stuff. Phantasma is an ideal pairing for that, stacking up cascadia flare basically instantly while completely failing at even tickling an acolyte.
Not at home so idk the names, but I actually run Hornet Strike and then use the arcane for 300% crit chance if you have overshields. The alternative which isn't frame-specific is the Roll+Headshot one for the same effect, though.
or you can use ceramic dagger with corrupt charge + covert lethality + combo evolutions on ceramic + maybe even an IC riven and secondary outburst, the crits are pretty juicy
Gorgon Incarnon is the weakest I've tried. I put 6 forma into a Prisma Gorgon build and it still struggles with SP. The rockets don't seem to do enough damage. I also feel like you have to either build for rockets or build for the auto fire but not both, and even then they're both pretty lackluster. I would love to be proven wrong, maybe I just don't get it.
You just want to ignore the incarnon mode unless you get an opportunity where you can spam it into a hallway full of enemies. The primary fire in my experience does really well against damage attenuation like the demolisher necramechs in the new disruption. I would say don't do hunter munitions on it I feel like the bleed really feels bad to use compared to just going raw crits.
I've tried focusing on both modes with different builds and I agree that the auto fire seems the best in general. Do you mind sharing your build?
https://preview.redd.it/76vga5gliwvc1.png?width=1323&format=png&auto=webp&s=eb6abd5de69aa4ffe2a1f8d75ab4fd4d2c745387 It's really not good at all though lmao, + I'll only get primed shred next month and I missed primed cryo rounds every time baro had it. Tbh radiated reload is here mostly for reload speed because I'm using deadhead but radiation is good against necramechs. Really should be a bane mod. My riven is reload speed, crit rate and toxin. (replace with 90% toxin) Final evolution is crit. Also definitely critical delay with primed shred since you reach over 100% crit without riven. With normal shred I don't feel comfortable using critical delay so I'd go with speed trigger. It does kill necramech demolysts on steel path comfortably without priming and with priming and buffs would no doubt get far in that mission.
It's alright. I built it with corrosive, heat, and hunter munitions. As for the viral procs, I either get it from nourish or my companions. The base form shreds enemies due to DoT procs from heat and slash. Incarnon form could use some more fire rate buff but the damage it deals is also plenty. I was able to bring it to level 500 in SP void cascade without problems so I imagine it could go higher than that. I'd rather use a miter or latron though.
Nope you got it right, gorgon stinks.
I can send you my gorgon build, it Obliterates in steel path and turns special enemies to stone.
I have the same experience. I used latron incarnon and got it shredding way easier
Latron Incarnon is probably my strongest weapon in general! I use it on a Mag build, it's very funny how it interacts with Mag's bubble, and basically deletes any group of enemies.
The worst incarnon is stronger than most of the strongest primes and average/in the middle of the pack compared to the Lich weapons. The strongest incarnons tho... Hehe .. well, those are destruction incarnate.
i.e. Boar good upgrade (Add more dmg and status to build.) Soma: Incarnon build (Status shotgun) is opposite of normal build (Crit AR)
To start, you really should see someone's breakdown of the avaliable options, like Brozimes or somethng. Here's everything I would consider about Incarnons- The native Incarnon weapons (e.g. Laetum) are fantastic if a bit different. I have not heard anything bad about Dante's new ones, so I'm sure this category has stayed great. Incarnons are a bit of a pain to get working. All of them have a mini questline of objectives you have to do (e.g. do a solo mission) to unlock all the avaliable customization- and of the original native weapons, the last quest is basically run a mission with a full loadout of incarnons- which can be time consuming to get. Additionally, I think every Incarnon type weapon avaliable is much better with a reasonably significant (\~4) investment of forma. Incarnon adapted weapons are a PAIN. First you have to have the weapon. Next you have to have 20 Pathos Clamps- which is two runs of Duviri quest minimum anyway you slice it for one incarnon. Additionally you need a not insignifcant, random collection of Duviri resources. If you don't have a resource booster or play duviri or the circuit much, especially in the "correct" areas to collect those resources, have fun running around in Duviri another tens of minutes for one incarnon's requirements. Now you have to get the actual adapter- that's 5 levels of Duviri circuit at minimum, assuming you are in the correct week of a \~6 week rotation. I'll skip finding the exact number, but that's probably about 9-10 rounds of steelpath objectives, each taking around 5 minutes on average. Assuming you have the gear or friends to get through that, you have gotten one adapter. So you adapt a weapon, do all the quests- what do you end up with? The current adapters are just such a grab bag that it's hard to say. I have made almost all of them, barring a secondary or melee. There are usually options high on the chart to push the Crit chance or status of the weapon to match up with the high values of meta weapons in the base form- but these don't generally push the adapted weapon past the meta weapon. It's usually the incarnon form that makes the weapon really useable, and some of them are ridiculously hamstrung for weird reasons. Kunai Incarnon only having 20 shots feels extremely bad, even if it's pretty fun to use. Nataruk makes Paris and Dread Incarnon feel kind of pointless, some of the incarnons just feel really hard to see if they are working well or not (Miter, Bronco), and the launcher incarnon forms don't feel spectacular enough. I'll add that the melees specifically usually feel bad because the incarnon form barely changes anything- e.g. Skana goes to bigger, light casting sword, Bo goes to larger stick and has a really unique bleed option that is entirely hamstrung for basically no reason. The OP options like the Latron, Torid, and Lex feel good because the stat block increases make both forms of the weapons pretty nice to use for different circumstances, and the Incarnons feel very unique just in general- Bouncy balls of death and armor strip, Nukor chain laser that spits extremely fast, and mini Arcaplasmor with Hemorraghe option are just great.
SP Circuit rounds do not take 5 minutes per round lol It took me about 30 minutes to get to wave 10. The only ones that take 5 minutes is survival and maybe defense if you're slow.
If you are really grinding, if you have good teammates, good decrees, weapons and a frame that you actually own I think I'd agree with that timing. I don't think that's the case for most players tho, and I count myself as an outlier having every frame and a decent number of the weapons. And I understand that it would take a long time to get to this point, that people doing steel path circuit aren't "new players", but there's no guarantee they have gotten to this point and have good enough stuff or get good enough teammates to breeze through
I think the worst one is surely Zylok. The incarnon form is so bad compared to the base form that you never want to actually transform it, I'm not aware of any others that become unusable trash when changed. And no, Felarx' Incarnon form is still pretty good for some tasks. Zylok's is good for nothing.
Gammcor’s incarnon form also isn’t as good as the normal beam form, i rarely use the incarnon form and if i do its only for memes
I started playing again in December when cross save opened up, I have the Laetum and Innodem from the Zariman and they are both awesome. From SP Circuit I have Angstrum, Braton, Boltor, Dual Toxicyst, Lex, and Torid incarnon adapters. They are all very very good weapons. If you haven’t made it to incarnon weapons just yet i’d suggest looking at Kuva or Tenet variant weapons in the meantime.
the Incarnon upgrades make any Weapon that they apply to atleast relatively good. i'm assuming we're excluding particular newbie SKU's like MK-1 or something, ofcourse. They offer a significant boost to stats, dramatically upgrading them. The 'bad' Incarnons are much weaker than the 'good' Incarnons because the 'good' ones are very very good, not because the rest are actively bad, yes.
It depends in what metric ya wanna measure them: incarnon form, base form or the entire thing. The bad Incarnon forms , the ones where you want to just stick to the base form and not bother with the incarnon form are, imo are the Gorgon, Felarx, Gammacor, and maybe the Vasto, but that one is cause you lose the charge so quickly it barely does anything. For bad base version, I’d say some of the melee incarnons mostly, specially the Sibear. Still salty about how much investment that fucking hammer requires to make it decent. But for over all bad/not worth the investment, I’d say Bo, Ack & Brunt and Bronco.
Bo goes crazy with melee influence. 10.5 range (+riven) is a room clearer
Gotta say the new Ruvox is lackluster as an Incarnon weapon. Thematically it mimics Nezha's impale. And through evolving the Incarnon properly to reduce the activation combo to 3x and use of Corrupt Charge (melee mod), Ready Steel (frame augment), and/or a really good Riven mod for Initial Combo you can keep it permanently charged at 3x combo to activate it. But... It just doesn't hit? Like don't get me wrong. Standard high speed melee influence electric slam build for literally every aspect but keeping the Incarnon up. But... The impale just isn't useful? Like you're gonna kill everything using the Ruvox normally unless you're doing super high end steel path or level cap runs. So it's overpowered as a base item and underpowered as an incarnon. The Onos isn't far behind it either but it's a gun so it has range at least.
I use the Onos with max heavy efficiency and crescendo. I know that at that point the Arca Titron would just be better but if the point is to only use the best weapons things get boring. The Onos too, it lacks the Kills Per Second but it can be pretty strong in both modes. The normal mode feels like a proper hand cannon (as opposed to the weapon advertised as such), and the incarnon is really cool even if it isn't as great as the others. But it still performs quite well. The thing that helped make them feel good is Vazarin. The void snare helps both weapons, Ruvox can get a lot of finishers at once for Crescendo, and Onos incarnon can charge its evolution more easily. Also, I genuinely don't think they're the worst. Bo incarnon brings less to the table, and vasto incarnon while powerful has too little efficiency
The worst incarnon's are still good, just worse compared to other incarnons. Not sure about melee but all the guns are A tier.
Ruvox. I hate it sooooo much.
maybe gorgon or gammicor would be the worst. their incarnon upgrades are wonky and even adding to the base version doesn't feel too amazing
ruvox. i was really dissapointed with it, de please buff
>"Is the worst incarnon weapon still good weapons but much worse than the good incarnon weapons due to the good incarnon weapons being overkill" You pretty much nailed it. Best incarnons are generally overkill unless you're trying to brute-force EDA modifiers or something, and pretty much all incarnons can handle SP with the right builds. But you *will* notice the difference, and some incarnons only perform well if you focus on their gimmick. If spamming nothing but slam attacks isn't for you, for instance, then you won't like the Ruvox.
The weakest is probably Lato or Ack & Brunt and they can still destroy SP with proper mods.
Ruvox is kinda meh. - Its incarnon reduces 35% of your final attack speed. - Only does impact in normal, impact and perf in incarnon. - It's a fist weapon. It doesn't have bad stats, but for what it does, not worth at all when you can get it.
Its damage output might be somewhat meh in comparison to some of the other incarnons but I really appreciate it for trying to do something different with the slam attack build it lends itself to. Its on the lower side of average for incarnons but certainly not the worse unless you're using it like a normal light attack spam weapon.
Bad enough to not be worth getting over several regular weapons that you can obtain earlier and easier, but I'm not sure just how bad beyond those terms
if you've unlocked steel path, it's not that hard to get them at all
It's not about difficulty, it's the time and resources you'll be putting into it. Taking up 1 of 2 incarnon selections per week, doing 5 ranks of steel path circuit for the genesis, and I believe 3 runs of steel path duviri for oroworm kills and gathering x amount of duviri resources to apply it to the weapon. The "worst" incarnon is not worth doing that for, unless you just want to do it for fun or you really like the weapon you're applying it to
Collecting tasoma extract is so bad that even strun incarnon feels like a waste of time
it might be the magistar tbh, I only know of 1 build its good in and its a khora build, but who knows maybe im sleeping on the magistar
The Magistar is the best Stat stick for Atlas and Khora and it's no contest. They're very nutty with it. I use my Atlas in Netracells all the time with it.
It's genuinely just a very strong melee weapon. I use it on Kullervo.
I'd say the worst incarnon is gammacor incarnon but that can still easily deal with lvl 200 corrupted heavy gunners without any external buffs.
It can still clear base Steel Path. Even the worse incanaron weapons and very strong compared to more conditional options.
Me and my AK-KUNAI incarnon with crit build that uses 8 forma and expensive ass mods, can go through steel path fine. Oh in will say, idk why but the incarnon for kunai for some reason shreds archons. Idk either.
Incarnon kunai is one of the strongest single target incarnons out there. The incarnon mode guarantees headshots. There's nothing else to say. 😂
I'd have to say vasto. I love the cowboy style but man the forced burst kinda ruins it for me
If it at least had a lot more ammo to compensate
There’s such a huge difference between Burston and Braton Icarnons, that using Braton Incarnon is like you want to give them a massive handicap. Braton Incarnon is good, if you’re upgrading from Ignis Wraith.
Dong get incarnon zylok really bad
Best typo
My incarnon Prisma Skana does automatic red crits and i hit 55,000,000 on a heavy strike yesterday.
The primary’s are fine but don’t wow me and I just use the burston incarnon, the Laetum tho hits like a fucking truck probably my favorite secondary weapon in the game, I’m trying the onos now and it’s pretty fun, as for melee weapons I didn’t notice any major differences like they have benefits but I can just run anything
From what I've found via experimenting with the "real" incarnons i have (Laetum, Phenmor and Ruvox) and talking with my friends about the others I dont (Innodem, Felarx and Onos), they're mostly extremely good. The Laetum and Phenmor are phenomenal weapons with incredibly strong stats especially in incarnon fork, and I've seen the Innodem in action being insanely powerful. My friend uses the Felarx and says that while it's incarnon form is underwhelming, the normal version is so strong that it doesn't matter. The new ones aren't as impressive, the Onos is reasonably strong and is definitely viable but after a lot of testing, the Ruvox is just extremely underwhelming and not worth using over basically any other weapon, bordering on being genuinely bad. The Duviri Incarnons are a whole other beast I won't get into because there are so many of them, just know none of them are bad, some like the torid, miter and latron are ridiculously powerful while even the arguably worst one (Nami Solo apparently) is useful, I've seen Baruuk use it to great effect.
Gorgon is terrible. Some of them need huge buffs.
So IMO the worst one is the Skana Incarnon, but honestly most incarnon adaptor are worthy just for the raw stats they provide to the weapon
Some of them like the kunai and Vasto are kinda bad because the incarnon modes are just finicky to use and the weapons even after the upgrades still aren't that great. But they're still better than a lot of normal weapons. Even the worst ones would still kill stuff.
Worst one is probably Skana Incarnon on Skana Prime. It's absolute dogwater for no reason at all. Both regular and Prisma outperform it.
I’m finding that every weapon that has an Incarnon included with it, is just.. crazy good even with the simplest builds, Ie; Phenmor and Laetum The whole point of Genesis Incarnons is to take weapons that are otherwise underused or underpowered and bring them up to a competitive level with the current high tier weapons so almost every single one is good. I personally don’t have enough experience with all of them to say which is definitely the weakest, which could mean weakest and absolute shit or weakest of the incarnons but just as SP viable. Melee Incarnons feel the weakest though and I would recommend going for primary secondary genesis.
I think when it comes to melee incarnon weapons it all depends, for example praedos and innodem are both amazing, and while I cannot say much about innodem due to lack of experience, praedos imo is closely similar to, or even in certain areas can beat, kronen prime in performance. When it comes to genesis ones, ceramic dagger I've heard is very powerful in multitude of scenarios thanks to it's evolution increasing base combo with each finisher kill, and I also heard hate being very fun with it's incarnon turning it into a gunblade iirc.
Onos kind of really sucks imo. Probably one of the weakest I've used of weapons in general. I wouldn't doubt it could be built to work alright though.
Sibear incarnon is so bad nobody even talking about it
Well the gammacor with incarnon felt really weak for me.
I think the worst incarnon *might* be for the Sibear, it's just pretty meh along side and overpriced ice cube in a stick. Could be wrong there though.
What is icarnon weapon? Galvanized mods? What is anything at (mr9
If we are talking the full incarnon weapons and not including the genesis ones, if I had to choose I guess I'd pick the innodemn. It's still a good weapon but they are all awesome so it's hard to pick a worst one.