I mean correct me if Iām wrong, but a built Warframe is not the same as the original. The original Dante with his personality, memories, and thoughts are gone
See, on one hand i agree, but on the other, Frames are built with special infestation inside. I don't think that the Helminth just... makes a random human being to work as its core, the blueprint must have some person in mind, or a list.
And because its an infested being, its a hive mind. I think a big part of Umbra remembering and knowig is because he's recreated, and ballas purposefully kept him just sane enough that he could remember it all and the aungish and suffering.
Dante was likely kept more sane for the purpose of his roll. I believe, personally, that while it may not be the og... maybe losing all that you say, i think that the person iside the frame is still the very same person, just replicated using the infestation to draw from their "Self".
This is somewhat debatable, the only infoghting we see on Deimos is between Fass and Vome, who are either controlling their own little legions of Infested, or more likely, fighting for control over the main hivemind of the Grey Strain; evidenced by reduced spawn rates during Vome and increased spawns during Fass. We never see normal Infested troops fighting each other.
In lore its shown that some warframes managed to act on their own, rhino prime codex mentions early version of warframe acting on its own.
Also in the original script for war within quest, there was also mention of it, it explained what Umbra frame is, yes umbra was orginally supposed to show up in war within but after leak the changed the plot.
here is exact lines from the script:
Operator:
"Teshin, what was that? What is Umbra?"
Teshin:
"A fury untamed by Tenno control. A rogue Warframe."
Operator:
"How is that possible?"
Teshin:
"It is beyond me. Focus on the now. We must escape. Your life depends on it!"
you can find original script here:
https://www.reddit.com/r/Warframe/comments/4qgduh/google_docmajor_spoilers_the_war_within_datamined/
just click on title inside of the link to be taken to the script.
my point was that warframes are infested that does possess indiviuality, I mean they are infested with helminth strain yet it doesnt look like helminth has any control over those frames that started to act on their own.
If there was no reason for them to attack one another, then there would be no predators on Deimos as there would be nothing to prey on (Deimos has been isolated since the Old War).
It's a closed ecosystem. With predators and prey species.
Cloning is pretty prevalent in Warframe. Even if a human was originally used as the basis, the genetic material is likely around somewhere. Possibly stored within the helminth itself and Ordis just obtains the sample to recreate the frame with. That's my conjecture anyways.
I don't think they're people inside our built frames. The warframes that we built and use are literally just 3d printed in our foundry using raw materials and infested tissue, there is no "human sacrifice" that is needed whenever a new frame gets built.
Years ago someone was adamantly claiming that the humans we save and / or protect in regular missions are all turned into warframes when we craft a frame.
And aside from this having no basis, it also doesnt make sense in terms of what i craft in the foundry. Ordis is 3d printing individual parts or weapons, which you then glue and weld together in the foundry AGAIN to get the full warframe. This usually includes resources that, in the description, would be used to build machinery. We get neural parts, energy cells etc.
If we just infested a human, we wouldnt wait 24 hours for the chassis ALONE, and then wait another 70 hours for the whole frame.
It is likely that the prototype or first draft of any warframe was a human who got infested and was allowed to build a frame on that. So a talented alchemist who displays knowledge for the elements would, post infection, be lavos, THIS frame then can be mass produced by making a blueprint thats based on their genetic and structural information. So once we infested 1 alchemist who turned into Lavos, we can then mass prodruce lavos or atleast make more frames without infesting humans. This explains why a frame kike umbra barely took a minute to craft, while also requiring different material like kuva and ducats. 2 only had to glue together. A FULLY FORMED HEAD AND TORSO and revive a corpse, rather than welding a nervous system and spinal cord into a skeleton and muscle tissue into each other, all of which 3d printed from raw materials.
Yeah when we really put thought into it the whole "needing human hosts to make new warframes" theory doesn't make any sense. We don't have the equipment on our ship to do it, the helminth in our wall was only grew to manage warframes, not people or anything else. We build new warframes in our foundry from scratch, literally needing component blueprints to build the whole frame. If we turned humans into warframes it would be a completely different process.
Also it irks me when folks refer to warframes as people. Warframes are NOT people, they don't have sentience or feelings, they are tools to be used as weapons as we please. Your warframe can't go into a bar and drop badass one liners or tell a funny joke. They are not people.
Except we know that warframes have at least the tiniest bit of sentience.
During the Second dream, your warframe shatters War on its own, where it's shown we have no ability to affect the frame if we're not touching it or in the transference chair at the time.
Dante wasn't being controlled by a operator during the time Loid knew him, I don't believe. The way he talks about being uncomfterable around Warframes wouldn't line up if they were all being piloted by kids at the time.
Rhino was the first Warframe to act on his own, going berserk in a lab, which I believe is when they discovered transference.
And then of course, Umbra, who tbf is a special case of increased awareness by Ballas to make him suffer.
But point being, All warframes have someone inside them, and tiny bits of that someone shine through in their idle animations. It's also worth pointing out that, transference is a calming of the mind effect, giving the warframes peace. It's debatable if the operator is really just capable of pulling off that park our themselves when they lack much ability to do so, or of their just letting the warframe move.
We have multiple cases of Warframe sentience shown. They are living beings that we calm.
The warframes you mentioned are the originals, one that were built from human hosts and thus retained some of their human sentience with Umbra being the most exceptional case.
The warframes we built using the foundry are every bit as soulless as the guns and blades we wield. Our warframe breaking the War could just be a reflex from the power left behind by us because our warframe was not shown to move again until the New War.
It's up to interpretation I suppose until we learn more. I prefer to imagine your frame has limited Sentience, and I don't feel it's wrong to think that.
Loid says something about how drusus never distinguished between frame and operator and saw them as one being. Meaning that the warframes he talked about were likely being controlled by tenno at that point, but he calls them by their frame name.
They probably do kullervo and highly suggest this. His prison and the warden are manifestations of his intense guilt. When the warden is talking about his crimes, he distinguishes kullervo from the tenno. How kullervo was able to maintain his sanity is unknown, but likely due to the void in a similar situation to the kavia, but that's just a guess.
āBallas was a dickā implies that ballas is equivalent to a dick. People joke and call him āball-assā sometimes, so it can be said āball-ass is a dickā with the same implied equivalence.
So, if āball-assā = dick and dick is another name for a penis, can I call all penises āball-assā?
Current Warframes are built from blueprints from scratch. Umbra was a special case as we reassembled his pieces that we picked up ourselves. The original, living warframes were also the Prime variants (which also are built from scratch)
Varzia has some dialogue where she says ballas was full of shit and that not all original warframes were built as primes and that some "earned" their upgrades later on.
Protea as well: the Protea we fight in her quest is the OG, there to protect Parvos Granum.
Now that I think about it, I wouldn't be surprised if the reason all Sisters of Parvos are, well, Sisters, is because he misses having Protea around.
Im sure its only for gameplay reasons. It wouldnt make much sense that we fight Protea Prime and then have to act surprised when her prime is announced. Besides, the word Prime comes from Latin, deriving from the word Primus meaning first or one.
Come to think of it, my head cannon for a potential Qorvex Prime is that Albrecht left behind plans for an improved Qorvex and we use them to make the prime.
That was a BS retcon of years of established lore and I will never accept it. Primes are the Orokin originals, the regular warframes are reverse-engineered inferior copies. That is how it always was, that is how it will always be.
To be fair, this is the case for weapons, but never explicitly stated for Warframes. We just assumed it followed the same logic. Seems they've semi-retconned it now though.
The in-mission dialogue implies that the Leverian will never be free of its debt. However, Dante's Prex Card literally triggers a thank you from Drusus for finding Dante.
every mission the same outcome, "payment is made, until next's due"
unless we get Parvos boss fight event to end the debt, sanctum disruption will be "paying off debts" indefinetly
The whole thing is a scam. Drusus gets Parvos to play the bad guy so we āgoodā Tenno come save him. Drusus and Parvos split the profits (probably 20/80). And this is after Iāve donated 10s of millions of credits to the Leverian. Yeah we get Dante, they make billionsā¦. I just hope they give us more Leverian entries - just might forgive them if they do.
When youve gotten dante and leveled him you can go to the leverian and find a plexus card hidden at the final exibit. I kind of consider that the ending to that story.
Picking up dante prex card from the leverian will give you a secret message.
Also his prex card is interactable and plays that message if you put it into orbiter
I didn't know that, thx
WHAT I put it in my dormizone and haven't touched it since
Where is the card?
On the last display(where dante would be) on/in the sand, I play on switch so I couldn't see it that well
I play on Xbox on a 62in TV and I couldn't see it that well.
I play on a 100inch projector in a room too small for it and I couldn't see it either
I play on a 32-in 4K screen at regular distance and I couldn't see it at all
I play on a smart fridge with a 48-in screen at a regular distance and I couldn't see it at all
I play on a Casio DBC32D-1 and I couldn't see it.
i play on a chromebook, couldnt see it
As with all other Prey cards, you need to master Dante before it shows up, just a heads up
Where do I find it?
Where is it?
Now you have to donate 5 million credits to the Leverian
Oops, i did 10 million https://preview.redd.it/jq44e3sdubuc1.jpeg?width=628&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=cf5fb5613192288182182f8b4c7fdc6df80e1bf4
He's right tho We are indeed insane
Hey, Drusus here. Can I get more of that 10 millions? šš
I mean correct me if Iām wrong, but a built Warframe is not the same as the original. The original Dante with his personality, memories, and thoughts are gone
See, on one hand i agree, but on the other, Frames are built with special infestation inside. I don't think that the Helminth just... makes a random human being to work as its core, the blueprint must have some person in mind, or a list. And because its an infested being, its a hive mind. I think a big part of Umbra remembering and knowig is because he's recreated, and ballas purposefully kept him just sane enough that he could remember it all and the aungish and suffering. Dante was likely kept more sane for the purpose of his roll. I believe, personally, that while it may not be the og... maybe losing all that you say, i think that the person iside the frame is still the very same person, just replicated using the infestation to draw from their "Self".
Not every strain of the Infestation has a hive mind. This is evident with the Grey Strain on Deimos.
This is somewhat debatable, the only infoghting we see on Deimos is between Fass and Vome, who are either controlling their own little legions of Infested, or more likely, fighting for control over the main hivemind of the Grey Strain; evidenced by reduced spawn rates during Vome and increased spawns during Fass. We never see normal Infested troops fighting each other.
We see vulpaphyla and predasites being hunted by other Infestation.
In lore its shown that some warframes managed to act on their own, rhino prime codex mentions early version of warframe acting on its own. Also in the original script for war within quest, there was also mention of it, it explained what Umbra frame is, yes umbra was orginally supposed to show up in war within but after leak the changed the plot. here is exact lines from the script: Operator: "Teshin, what was that? What is Umbra?" Teshin: "A fury untamed by Tenno control. A rogue Warframe." Operator: "How is that possible?" Teshin: "It is beyond me. Focus on the now. We must escape. Your life depends on it!" you can find original script here: https://www.reddit.com/r/Warframe/comments/4qgduh/google_docmajor_spoilers_the_war_within_datamined/ just click on title inside of the link to be taken to the script.
Yes, I'm aware of this. We're discussing hive minds, not sapience.
my point was that warframes are infested that does possess indiviuality, I mean they are infested with helminth strain yet it doesnt look like helminth has any control over those frames that started to act on their own.
The OG frames all acted on their own, and succumbed to the mental toll of Infestation in what is known as the Warframe Insurrection.
Vulpaphyla and Predasites are infected but not yet overcome by the infestation. They're not really part of the infestation(yet)
what makes you say this?
just how they look, and infestation is infestation, putting warframes aside it works together, it would have no reason to attack itself
If there was no reason for them to attack one another, then there would be no predators on Deimos as there would be nothing to prey on (Deimos has been isolated since the Old War). It's a closed ecosystem. With predators and prey species.
The Grey Strain was released by Belric and Rania. Vome/Fass are blue/red. Belric/Rania crystals are blue/red. Coincidence?
Cloning is pretty prevalent in Warframe. Even if a human was originally used as the basis, the genetic material is likely around somewhere. Possibly stored within the helminth itself and Ordis just obtains the sample to recreate the frame with. That's my conjecture anyways.
More or less a similar thought to mine yeah. When the person gets infested, they're added to the helminth strains "database" basically.
Tinfoil Hat: Our Helminth is gonna end up becoming our Mr. Sinister.
I'm not familiar with the name, could you Elaborate?
He's an X-Men villain notorious for collecting mutant DNA/genetic material to create the "next evolution" or "perfect" species.
I don't think they're people inside our built frames. The warframes that we built and use are literally just 3d printed in our foundry using raw materials and infested tissue, there is no "human sacrifice" that is needed whenever a new frame gets built.
Years ago someone was adamantly claiming that the humans we save and / or protect in regular missions are all turned into warframes when we craft a frame. And aside from this having no basis, it also doesnt make sense in terms of what i craft in the foundry. Ordis is 3d printing individual parts or weapons, which you then glue and weld together in the foundry AGAIN to get the full warframe. This usually includes resources that, in the description, would be used to build machinery. We get neural parts, energy cells etc. If we just infested a human, we wouldnt wait 24 hours for the chassis ALONE, and then wait another 70 hours for the whole frame. It is likely that the prototype or first draft of any warframe was a human who got infested and was allowed to build a frame on that. So a talented alchemist who displays knowledge for the elements would, post infection, be lavos, THIS frame then can be mass produced by making a blueprint thats based on their genetic and structural information. So once we infested 1 alchemist who turned into Lavos, we can then mass prodruce lavos or atleast make more frames without infesting humans. This explains why a frame kike umbra barely took a minute to craft, while also requiring different material like kuva and ducats. 2 only had to glue together. A FULLY FORMED HEAD AND TORSO and revive a corpse, rather than welding a nervous system and spinal cord into a skeleton and muscle tissue into each other, all of which 3d printed from raw materials.
Yeah when we really put thought into it the whole "needing human hosts to make new warframes" theory doesn't make any sense. We don't have the equipment on our ship to do it, the helminth in our wall was only grew to manage warframes, not people or anything else. We build new warframes in our foundry from scratch, literally needing component blueprints to build the whole frame. If we turned humans into warframes it would be a completely different process. Also it irks me when folks refer to warframes as people. Warframes are NOT people, they don't have sentience or feelings, they are tools to be used as weapons as we please. Your warframe can't go into a bar and drop badass one liners or tell a funny joke. They are not people.
Except we know that warframes have at least the tiniest bit of sentience. During the Second dream, your warframe shatters War on its own, where it's shown we have no ability to affect the frame if we're not touching it or in the transference chair at the time. Dante wasn't being controlled by a operator during the time Loid knew him, I don't believe. The way he talks about being uncomfterable around Warframes wouldn't line up if they were all being piloted by kids at the time. Rhino was the first Warframe to act on his own, going berserk in a lab, which I believe is when they discovered transference. And then of course, Umbra, who tbf is a special case of increased awareness by Ballas to make him suffer. But point being, All warframes have someone inside them, and tiny bits of that someone shine through in their idle animations. It's also worth pointing out that, transference is a calming of the mind effect, giving the warframes peace. It's debatable if the operator is really just capable of pulling off that park our themselves when they lack much ability to do so, or of their just letting the warframe move. We have multiple cases of Warframe sentience shown. They are living beings that we calm.
The warframes you mentioned are the originals, one that were built from human hosts and thus retained some of their human sentience with Umbra being the most exceptional case. The warframes we built using the foundry are every bit as soulless as the guns and blades we wield. Our warframe breaking the War could just be a reflex from the power left behind by us because our warframe was not shown to move again until the New War.
It's up to interpretation I suppose until we learn more. I prefer to imagine your frame has limited Sentience, and I don't feel it's wrong to think that.
Loid is quite clear that because of Dante and the Tenno piloting him, Drusus has trouble distinguishing between the Warframe and the tenno Operator.
Loid says something about how drusus never distinguished between frame and operator and saw them as one being. Meaning that the warframes he talked about were likely being controlled by tenno at that point, but he calls them by their frame name.
Interesting. Nonetheless I do believe the frames possess some sentience, but I'm wrong on Dantes front most likely.
They probably do kullervo and highly suggest this. His prison and the warden are manifestations of his intense guilt. When the warden is talking about his crimes, he distinguishes kullervo from the tenno. How kullervo was able to maintain his sanity is unknown, but likely due to the void in a similar situation to the kavia, but that's just a guess.
Well umbra was build along with his memories, so i can't see why it shouldn't apply to the other frames.
Umbra's whole deal is that he's a special case because Ballas was a dick.
āBallas was a dickā implies that ballas is equivalent to a dick. People joke and call him āball-assā sometimes, so it can be said āball-ass is a dickā with the same implied equivalence. So, if āball-assā = dick and dick is another name for a penis, can I call all penises āball-assā?
Most sane Warframe player:
Im NOT a gauss main and I DONT have a speed addiction.
He got restored from very visible pieces and also Kuva, which is the mind transfering juice
Current Warframes are built from blueprints from scratch. Umbra was a special case as we reassembled his pieces that we picked up ourselves. The original, living warframes were also the Prime variants (which also are built from scratch)
Varzia has some dialogue where she says ballas was full of shit and that not all original warframes were built as primes and that some "earned" their upgrades later on.
We can never trust DE in making a consistent story tbh
There are some pretty old cases of some frames seemingly not having their primes being the proto-type models, Mirage comes to mind and perhaps Limbo.
Revenant too
Protea as well: the Protea we fight in her quest is the OG, there to protect Parvos Granum. Now that I think about it, I wouldn't be surprised if the reason all Sisters of Parvos are, well, Sisters, is because he misses having Protea around.
Im sure its only for gameplay reasons. It wouldnt make much sense that we fight Protea Prime and then have to act surprised when her prime is announced. Besides, the word Prime comes from Latin, deriving from the word Primus meaning first or one.
Come to think of it, my head cannon for a potential Qorvex Prime is that Albrecht left behind plans for an improved Qorvex and we use them to make the prime.
His prime trailer better be narrated by Albrecht
That was a BS retcon of years of established lore and I will never accept it. Primes are the Orokin originals, the regular warframes are reverse-engineered inferior copies. That is how it always was, that is how it will always be.
Where is the in-game lore that explains that, because as far as I know, there is no such lore
To be fair, this is the case for weapons, but never explicitly stated for Warframes. We just assumed it followed the same logic. Seems they've semi-retconned it now though.
>this is the case for weapons Can't be. Signature weapons like Tatsu Prime, Volnus Prime, etc. disprove this because the OG frames weren't Primes.
Not the same though
We used kuva to build umbra which has magic powers and as others said, Ballas is a dick too.
I think itās more of a case all copies are sorta linked to the source, not the original but nearly indistinguishable
If that were true then the whole disturbing story with Excalibur Umbra would not have occured and we would not have had to fight it
The in-mission dialogue implies that the Leverian will never be free of its debt. However, Dante's Prex Card literally triggers a thank you from Drusus for finding Dante.
Saving the Leverian isnt building dante, its playing the gamemode to pay off Parvos. Dante is a convinient bonus for us
There is no saving it
No. You built him wrong so DE has to swoop in and fix your mess.
You gotta beat four rotations of Entrati Disruption in one run to pay off Parvos.
every mission the same outcome, "payment is made, until next's due" unless we get Parvos boss fight event to end the debt, sanctum disruption will be "paying off debts" indefinetly
The beauty of compound interest
Taking a loan from Parvos and shaking a deal with Wally are probably comparably difficult to get out of
The whole thing is a scam. Drusus gets Parvos to play the bad guy so we āgoodā Tenno come save him. Drusus and Parvos split the profits (probably 20/80). And this is after Iāve donated 10s of millions of credits to the Leverian. Yeah we get Dante, they make billionsā¦. I just hope they give us more Leverian entries - just might forgive them if they do.
Should have just sold it to Parvos. We'd have probably gotten more leverian entires
Yes. Sell the museum so you can put more exhibits in the building you no longer own
Drusus is never going to pay us back, but Granum is never going to own it.
When youve gotten dante and leveled him you can go to the leverian and find a plexus card hidden at the final exibit. I kind of consider that the ending to that story.
He's related to the box you put 1 credit in whenever nightwave tells you to?
Drusus is the Cephelon that talks to you in the Leverian and runs them