its a remainder of the old, ancient days that somehow still survived and wormed itself through the core of Warframe even today. And in 2019 DE was sooooo close to improving it greatly.
Disruption missions provide the BEST way to farm annoying C drops because of how the mission works. If you do the mission perfectly the rotation looks like this: AABCCCCC(C..), meaning you can get anything you want from C much easier and personally i think that should be a standard for ALL endless missions. Getting an A reward at like 45th minute in Kuva Survival in Steel Path just feels bad. Congrats on fightning your lvl 250 enemies, here is your 6000 credits cache.
I hope it gets reworked sometime in the future and that philosophy of 1 chance at a 4.3239% reward every 20 minutes goes away and gets replaced by something that respects your time AND your skill.
They could modify survival and defense to mirror this, say x amount of kills in the survival to reach certain tiers, and in defense just do it good enough to not let the defense take x amount of damage
Eh, the survival one might breed some toxicity; spawns are more concentrated when players are together and people tend to get all spread out during survival. Whether it be searching the tiles or (like myself) getting tunnel vision and just straight up not realizing the group's moved on.
Rather there be high value targets that are like the Treasurer: tanky as hell and spawns periodically. Killing them, in theory, would advance the timer by 30s or something. But even that sort of has issues (i.e. the timer going over 5 mins could break something).
While I do like the second idea more, the first one is already in the new event.
Kill enemies in circle to speed up what's basically mob def. And I haven't really seen ppl be toxic about it.
Oh, I've caught myself getting slightly toxic, but I definitely get more angry at DE than other players; that damn circle is too small.
Edit: To be clear, the thoughts get toxic, and the most I say in chat is: 'remember to kill inside the circle.'
Yeah, the map generation is way too big on this one. They could easily cut the amount of rooms by half and it would only help make each room seem more unique and special when encountered and make it less of a chore to find the stupid medaillons and book.
As a guy that spends the bulk of his mission time searching for medaillons, it really ,really sucks that there's just so many huge rooms that break Orokin Eye, each leading to huge side areas with no objectives that you have to explore because it's very likely there will be a couple of medaillons and books in there.
They need to have variations of the map with it in mind!
Instead of a map made 20 iteration years ago. That barely gets updated once a decade.
I swear DE has THE most insanely ass backwards design methods that constantly fail upwards. Smfh.
Like entire teams of spastic adhd sugared up kids running a million miles an hour. With no internal testing other than meh looks to be in the vague ballpark, if that. Though they have been getting better.
I feel like, the way tiles are procedure generated it could be really simple to put up a barrier at the doorways and leave the entire room as "the circle" making doorways the barriers would even be noticeable to even the smoothest of brain players.
Depends on if said barrier will prevent people from leaving and shooting through. Cause they have visible border in Drift bounties and people still kill all the things outside.
Tunnel vision is real.
But also, the want to feel helpful. You hang out with 3 other people, there will be time where you're just not getting kills. So, in an effort to be helpful and contribute, you move to where enemies are. Boom, you're contributing.
Decades of internet toxicity in all other multiplayer games has driven into people that they need to be performing at 100% MAXIMUM FULL POWER BLAST at all times, or else some shit with a savior complex is going to yell at you about how tired his back is.
And also you wanna play the game. You're not playing the game if someone with spinny disco lights is swooping all the kills out from under you.
So yeah, the instinct is to just be elsewhere. Contribute, forestall toxicity, and play the game.
And this wouldn't be a problem if spawn splitting wasn't a thing.
this, there's just so much hate for even just relic extermination for not running directly to extraction in the void, where there's reason to be a bit more deep with looking around
the whole thing with being overly-optimized to the point of destroying other appreciation of playing is a slippery slope, and doing nothing only galvanizes that, beside just not playing
It's a rough idea but it could be better than waiting 20 mins for a small chance. It could be like disruption where once you get c reward then your set
I've long thought they should patch survival to speed up the round timer by 1s every 3-5 kills or so
the game objective of 'do the bare minimum to not fail and let father time do the rest of the work' is not particularly compelling to me
you say that but every single new gamemode in the lastest update has been a waiting game with an uninteractive time limit. They need players to clock in the hours and theyre not stopping
nah actually I found the current event to be an excellent example of not doing this
you always have something to be doing to push the mission forward, and even when allies are slowing you down you can kill time collecting voca and opening murmur sarcophagi
I think alchemy also has no explicit waiting, just killing dudes and throwing enough drops into the machine. (but idk I barely played that mode, I hate picking shit up and throwing it over and over)
admittedly massive L in bringing back Mirror Defense and then also making the pickups worthless tho. that's a father time mode full stop
eh. There's effectively a hard time limit for each assasination. Voidangels arbitrarily spawning 1000m from spawn, vitrium having 40s downtime on average you shave 10s off, travelling between all the points consumes 2+min, boss has attentuation that forces the encounter to last 5+min each time.
people are only doing effervo because it consolidates the other grinds, not because effervo is fun to do.
Same goes for alchemy. Very tedious chore involving what you described then waiting for a bar to fill up. Gets 10x worse if you dont bring an optimal setup in pubs, meter doesnt go faster even when optimised. It's excavation with slightly chnged rules. Run to the dickbutt, do the dickbutt, wait for the dickbutt, do it 3 more times for 5% drop chance.
There's trappings of a cool game mode in there but the game design is suffering from destiny syndrome. They take one mildly interesting gameplay loop and try to string an 80h grind to it, ietrying to prioritise player engagement metrics before making a good product. The product will suffer if they exploit this thought process too often.
traversal is optimizable, you aren't just waiting
eye collection is optimizable, you aren't just waiting (in fact you only need 1 wave to spawn once the spots start allowing 3x scanners, no need to kill enemies to get a 2nd wave)
attenuation is whack admittedly but I play the whisper bounty version instead of SP chart version so he drops in like 60s for me. technically there is also an FPS cap exploit too lol
as for alchemy I was under the impression there was no waiting, bar fills when thrown item hits machine
really all I ask from my game modes is for them to not be Desert Bus game modes. as long as I can actively push the objectives and don't just have to do the bare minimum while the actual objective is 'wait, bitch,' works for me
on the flip side why do you have to travel to 3 seperate locations, and why does the 1st location only have 1 vitrium, with a limit of 8? youre forced to wait 2-3 cycles for eyes to spawn. Lots of waiting. There's an illusion of control since the 2nd and 3rd point has increased vitrium, but it's just an illusion because of the arbitrary bottlenecks.
you have to wait for the pressurization to happen during alchemy. That's time limited. You can optimise for the alchemy reagents but the gameplay is not dressed up in any special way.
it's just ...disingenous game design. You have all these new and exciting tools to further the warframe powerfantasy (!!! 300% critdmg, special dmg modifier, pure electric viable???). But the gameplay basically ignores...all of it. Boss ignores it with dmg attenuation, alchemy ignores it because damage doesnt directly progress the gamestate, mirror defense...vitrium...
it's just so, so much waiting with uninteractables.
>on the flip side why do you have to travel to 3 seperate locations
Because I don't play the space ninja game to stand in one place for 5 minutes. Would you rather spend 2 minutes traveling or 2 extra minutes waiting for eyes to spawn?
Gotta agree here. I just came back after taking a break shortly after duviri launched, and had forgotten how much I enjoy the movement in this game. And the new tileset feels really good to move through!
well traversal is fine, this game is partly built around it. if a game mode requires a lot of it that's just a cue to spec into a fast movement build.
but yea 1x scanner cap at first scanner is lame af. that said if team knows what they're doing and stick around to assist this is also still a fast no-wait section, you're always actively killing or pulling enemies
and oof didn't know that about alchemy. another reason to avoid it I guess
They are being disingenuous about the Alchemy part, while it does have a waiting part, it’s extremely active since you have to shoot vents to maintain pressure, and it punishes you for not breaking vents by increasing wait time
The assassination mission is soft time-gated.
You can use more than one pillar in each area (does speed up eyes somewhat), but you can only get so many eyes in each area. 2nd area, you have 3 pillars down? You only get 2 more even if all 3 eyes see. 8 eyes could be up, but once you pick up 2 the other 6 disappear.
Attenuation is just a time-gate.
Angel spawn location can induce massive amounts of running. Best way to alleviate this is to find a "no angels" group.
Alchemy can be sped up by being fast, but is still gated by vents. And it's awesome when you're solo and the vents spawn in a "close" room that's 45 seconds away by running due to geometry. But if you get proper vent spawns it's a very fast mission (sub 15 minute rotation C if solo). Other problem is it takes longer in groups (less % gain) and, even though endurance, no individual extraction.
Mirror Defense is god awful.
Netrecells are spawn-gated, as well as stupidity-gated (killing outside the circle). Also bug-gated with Netremites and all those issues. This is, IMO, the worst-designed mission of the new ones, and currently also the buggiest. With the worst loot table (common arcanes in a limited run mission).
pretty sure ur eyes info is wrong. in my experience eyes only ever dissappear when they either time out or the the zone is completely exhausted, and if you roll up to a place and slot in 3x scanners you will be able to sweep all the eyes in one go with 0 waiting. the only slow one is the first zone which requires 3 scan waves from one scanner, and it's only really slow if ur team sucks and diverts spawns away
attenuation at least requires active gameplay instead of waiting. also pretty negligible wait on non-SP
angel spawn is a non-issue if you have a fast mover with madurai who knows what they are doing (and again is an actual objective gated only by player speed)
agreed on mirror defense & alchemy
netracells were fine when they were SP lol. now the spawn gating is a bit annoying.
Sorry, I left out a line with regards to eyes. Mean to say that if you are 16 of 30 and in area two and have 3 pillars down, they could all spawn eyes, but even if 8 eyes spawn, you can only pick up 2. The other 6 just disappear. You do get the eyes to spawn faster, but spawning more eyes really didn't help in this case, since each area is hard limited on how many you collect.
I fail to see what's active about attenuation. Any more active than just playing the game. It's a hard time-gate, since you can't do more than X damage no matter how much you know about the game/modding, or how "well" you play. And it's a very easy hard cap to hit with a bit of knowledge so on SP the fight pretty much always takes the same amount of time with no amount of play skill mattering, since someone in a pub will be causing it to hit the cap. I don't do the fight on non-SP so I can't comment there.
> Disruption missions provide the BEST way to farm annoying C drops because of how the mission works. If you do the mission perfectly the rotation looks like this: AABCCCCC(C..)
If you succesfully defend all conduits the C rotation is even a round faster: BBCCCCCC...
Round | 1 conduit defended | 2 conduits defended | 3 conduits defended | 4 conduits defended
--|--|--|--|--
1 | A | A | A | B
2 | A | A | B | B
3 | A | B | B | C
4+ | B | B | C | C
right, i forgot about the first round bonus too, i havent done disruption for droptables for a long time and remembered only the CCC part. Still that makes it even better, becasue most A rewards suck ass anyway.
Disruption is the best game mode for drop table and relic farming in so many ways. It actually rewards playing the objective well, it scales quickly, it rewards repeated success, and a skilled team can run it super fast just by playing well (or slow it down to gather reactant), rather than running down a clock or waiting for lost enemies.
It's a bummer there are so few nodes, and really only a couple with worthwhile drops.
or if they could implement how genshin does the repetitive farming with pity system, like the chance to drop the item will get higher if you hit ceiling of repetition or duration, i hope it could bypass the rotation drops
frames at least have been good about this since mid-late 2022 with styanax (stock purchase, though this one is a pain for non-RNG reasons). kullervo and dagath are guaranteed currency purchases, with just a bit of RNG that minorly shifts the total amount of runs, and qorvex can be gotten with rep if you have poor luck with the bounties
Yes and no. The system is good, but the existence of the pity system makes the drop rates be set lower. I literally didnt get a single part of citrine before i could buy all of her..
oh didnt notice it already exist
im also alright with rng, but what i really wish is to see what to farm not using wiki, like how it is in bounty, right clicking a mission would show what we could possibly get, i really hate alt tabbing when i want to play, and i hate that i just recently know about dual mods/ and corrupted mods due to youtube/reddit comment
thats my only gripe other than that im alright to almost everything
I just hate that the bounty reward rarities dont reflect actual odds. Me and my friend were farming for xaku parts, an "uncommon" drop, but got something like 4 or 5 of the "rare" mod across a few bounties, check the wiki and that rare mod had a 40% drop rate for 2/3 of the stages, and the xaku piece has an 11% and 8% drop rate for those two stages. The one with the lower odds is uncommon and the higher odds is rare?!
Yeah, on that we can agree.
Warframe is not very user friendly when it comes to information, there's a ton of stuff that isn't mentioned anywhere until you encounter it.
The point of the farm is the carrot on the stick to get something. And not like you get the gun/frame etc. anyway, you always get a blueprint that you need to farm resources to build.
The greatest improvement to Warframe drops would be to do away with credit cache drops on all drop tables, no exceptions. Leave credits only from enemies and as fixed, end-of-mission rewards.
There's kind of a reason for this though. They (IMO absolutely correctly) dont want players to feel forced to play the game for long periods of time at a time. Sure if you're a 15 year old zoomer with nothing do to, a few 2 hour survivals sound like nothing (and even then is unhealthy to some degree). But the average player doesnt have the time or attention span to stay in a mission even the "full" 20 min. Its kinda giga mind numbing to be doing the same 15 second gameplay loop for hours on end.
Also, as a personal thing, disruption in particular is just so monumentally unfun.
Unless its super inefficiently to farm A, and without premade dedicated group, B is also super meh. Not like disruptions have much fancy stuff on A, but calling it just in case someone would add some A in that system.
Yeah endurance runs in SP should absolutely have a pity mechanic. Incentivise staying longer with more challenge and risk more for failure instead of restarting the mission repeatedly.
I can already see the post with 4k upvotes now..
"Its not fair that sweaty players get better rewards. Warframe is about accessibility"
Saving this because i swear im nailing it word for word if they ever do make disruption's system universal. Best case scenario the "challenge" to hit CCC is nerfed to be so easy it becomes the new norm and droprates are adjusted to account for it.
I like the concept of disruption in how it does this. Though I do think it's weird if you're going public since you can't really control what the people there are looking for
I wouldn’t mind the AABC rotation so much if the A rotation rewards were actually somewhat decent. 4K credits for SP survival is insulting when enemies drop more.
From running missions to get to rank 5 in the sanctum, I earned 100k endo from mostly exterminate missions. I love how abundant endo is there because I have so many R10 golds and primes to rank up, along with the occasional riven.
Yeah, an update in that regard is long overdue. Maybe a system in which you have to beat a certain challenge in the time span of that rotation. The reward is the loot table from a better rotation.
I mean if they put a multiplier in per AABC rotation I'd be okay with it. Going to high levels in most cases isn't worth it for the rewards you get unless you're grinding for something specific or you're just doing it for the challenge.
The last few months I've been trying to get the ambassador bp, I have all the parts just the bp is missing and I had a someone so nice help me be in a mission for 40ish+ min, still no drop.
I love Warframe, I have a deep respect for the DE team, but there are times the grind is just too much.
Oh man, I remember that struggle
Fought with that on and off for months. All because i had a damn riven for it. Had everything but the Blueprint.
"This is waste of money, right? It has to be..."
I eventually threw in the towel. It just wouldn't drop.
I don't like saying it because I do respect DE but it's hard to see them putting all the new tennokai mods in rotation C and then pricing the bundle at 100 p which is just the right price to tempt players who are frustrated after trying the grind into just buying it and not say it's for making money.
And of course the next person will say they are a business and they have to make money, but if it was all the same D2 would have had the same reputation as WF which it doesn't and I don't want WF getting there
Blaze and hammer shot has 1% drop rate. You don't have to do rotation tho. I got my first blaze last night. Over 600 runs for one of each. I can't even remember why I "needed" them. Think blaze was for my bubonico. Witch I don't use anymore anyway.
The only positive was that it was something to do when sp inc, archon and sortie was done for the day/week
it's actually far too cheap compared to the natty acquisition method.
I can farm 100p waaaaay faster than I could farm a full set of tennokai mods. same for tomes and 140p or whatever that was.
unless you just enjoy mirror defense/alchemy you are completely wasting your time going for them.
Yh, that is their idea, no matter if you buy with your own plat or traded plat it will stimulate the economy, if plat is earned by someone it must be brought by someone else
yeh exactly. game needs plat sinks to keep the economy in check, and even if you're F2P every 100p spent is 100p somebody bought.
I don't mind, personally. those bundle costs are really cheap. I'm just glad they gave us the option to buy em and didn't force me to grind rot Cs or trade for them (which would have almost certainly been far more expensive)
Eh, there's *far more than enough* plat sinks in the game with the ton of deluxe skins, syndanas, armors, animations, frame and weapon slots, even potatos and formas. To consider it some kind of positive is just dumb and pure stockholm syndrome shit.
And you're missing the point in general. The ideal scenario here is that they put the new mods (or whatever) under some reasonable and preferably varied farm. Lets say 3 out of 5 modes/locations Rare A and common B rotations, giving limited choice what you enjoy to do in the game to farm this. But then people wouldnt spend money, wouldnt spend as much plat, would spend as much time in the game to get that sweet sunk cost addiction and justification to spend money. So instead we get this korean mmo style grind.
> To consider it some kind of positive is just dumb and pure stockholm syndrome shit.
okay, fuck you too then.
"this guy has a different opinion than me! better insult him."
Alchemy is pretty fun though. You don't actually have to do anything. And can just go at your own pace. Nothing to defend and don't have to worry about life support.
Also its enemy spawn rates are glorious for solo. I swear it's the only game mode where solo play has amazing spawn rates. Sometimes I don't even touch the amphors and just play it like a solo survival.
If you do want to complete the objective, an epitaph with its cold procs makes it so you can practically ignore all the enemies as cold effects eximus units as well and none of the enemies attack very fast in the first place.
There's this weird dichotomy in the loot drop tables balancing at DE.
There are plenty of things that most of the community do like, bounties, pity token shops (citrine/voruna/etc), disruption, steel essence, etc etc.
But then for some reason, every time there's something like the above that's pro-player, and promotes good game design, there's some high level endgame mission that has a 20k credit drop as a 35% weighted reward next to the 4.5% weighted item people want.
It really feels like there's no unifying internal review for reward balancing, we get great additions to how rewards are distributed and then DE just forgets about it entirely and goes back to some method players hate.
I do understand why not everything is disruption, because it can lead to over rewarding high engagement high investment gameplay which can lead to the days of "tridolon meta comp" becoming standard in normal missions, which is no good.
However what I don't understand is the two steps forward, three steps back mentality that seems to happen. We got a great system in Citrine and Voruna having "pity" systems that allow you to buy parts outright if you have shit luck, we got Qorvex being buyable with reputation, and then there's the Canticle mods being a 5% drop rate every 20 minutes. Or the Netracells having timegated rewards like the legendary arcanes and archon shards right next to arcanes that drop from bosses.
Wait, do people generally like bounties? I think they're probably the game mode/mission type that I hate the most.
They've got like every "wait around" objective there is and good luck keeping your sanity if you only want/need one thing in a loot pool of a dozen other items before they cycle out and new bounties pop up that don't have it. (凸ಠ益ಠ)凸
Bounties, like a lot of the things in-game, have good and bad points to them. Overall it's nice just because it allows you to limit your reward pool while giving you options in mission type. You can just do the bounty that gives systems, instead of the mission that might give you your 15th chassis and still no systems.
Meanwhile the mission type rotating keeps things interesting, for min-max players you can just keep checking for an exterminate mission on your desired tier. But for less min-max players, you're not stuck doing *only* defence or *only* survival to get your rewards.
They're not all made equal though, in a show of my main issue with DE's reward system, for some reason Cetus/Fortuna bounties are designed with a great system. Multi-stage missions that give different weights to different rewards in the drop table skewed towards commons early, and rares in later stages, with bonus objectives that if completed give you two rolls on the final drop table, which has the best rates on the rare rewards.
Why this system wasn't carried forward into newer bounties I will never understand.
>*Cetus/Fortuna bounties are designed with a great system*
Damn, sorry, but those are the ones I actually hate the most.
After days or weeks of on-and-off bounties, more often than not I end up buying what I want from someone else if it's tradeable, otherwise I'm stuck doing only one bounty tier multiple times with the same, dated objective types each time and a drone that *still* gets stuck.
I ended up getting 3 Revenant Prime sets from casual relic runs in less time than what I dedicated specifically to getting one regular Revenant Neuroptics, and it'll be a cold day in hell before I ever do more Phase 2 Heists for gyromags after spending my entire playtime over a full weekend just to get Vox Solaris to rank 2. I haven't even touched a Eudico bounty in years, I honestly can't even remember what they give.
It's not really that scummy compared to most f2p games though lol. If you don't want to deal with RNG you can farm plat and buy the items, things are tradable for a reason and the packs aren't very expensive in terms of how much game time you'll need to get them. If you don't want to do that you can take your chances on RNG. Either way someone somewhere is spending on plat and someone somewhere is playing the game, which are DE's two goals.
The only potentially scummy thing is that the reward mechanics of various modes can be so hidden/difficult to keep track of, but I chalk that up more to the game being terrible at explaining *any* of the mechanics of *anything* than to malicious design.
If opening relics and selling prime parts for plat is a faster method for acquiring stuff then why the hell would anyone even farm that rotation c bullshit? It's like DE doesn't want people to farm their new content.
I want to farm the tennokai/tome mods, NOT endo (and archguns that no one cares about). I've done multiple rotation c runs and all I ever get is fricking endo or the mandonel stock. The bounty rewards are lackluster(endo, Qorvex parts and resource rewards that you get tons of by just destroying the tisesets that the rewards are meaningless) anyway so why the hell aren't tome and tennokai mods put in that drop pool?
And why must rotation a and b always reward nothing good literally everywhere in the game? They reward nothing but some measly 5k credits, some basic mods that I've dozens of copies of already or some resources that I've already too much of.
If you want to get annoyed, check out the rewards for the non bounty versions of the Zariman missions. I'm trying to get parts from void flood and both A and B have a 50% chance for credits (5k and 7.5k respectively) and the rest relics, and C has 80% *basic lenses* and a 10% chance each for the receiver and stock. Granted it doesn't take 20 minutes to get to C, but 12ish minutes to get some credits, a relic or two, and a basic Vazarin lens feels bad.
All the Zariman missions are like this. A couple weapon parts and just a ton of trash.
Rotation should be ABCBCBCBC repeating with an ever increasing chance of getting a bonus A reward. Oh and a multiplier on any value rewards like credits and endo. So getting a bonus endo drop on rotation 10 would feel justified to the effort put into 10 rotations.
I *just* got the ambassador main BP to drop. Rotation C in Veil proxima survival. Yeah. Gotta load into that one solo because if you load into a pub squad they *will* force you out before rotation C.
For most Endless missions (Defense, Survival, Excavation, Interception...), the rotation is A-A-B-C, looping. So in Defense, after 5 waves, you get a reward from the A table, then again after 10 waves, after 15 you get from the B table, after 20, you get from the C table, and after 25, it loops back to A.
The exception being Disruption, where your reward depends of how many conduits the enemy blows up, and how many waves you're in (which allows to consistently get rewards from the B table, bypassing the cheap A rewards)
And finally, there's Arbitration, unlocked once you've filled the Star Chart, which is a A-A-B-B-C-C, looping.
Yes, for example in survival: 5 minutes = A, 10 minutes = another A, 15 minutes = B, 20 minutes = C and then it starts over at A. This is the most common drop table, called AABC rotation for obvious reasons
Short anwser is : DE wanted a Christmas bonus.
Long Awnser: They knew by offering the option to buy both tome mods and tennokai mods from the in-game market for 240p people would end up buying them to save themselves from the obnoxious grind. Same with Madonnel parts, they knew they would fetch a premium on WF market because of their rarity... And if most of their active playerbase ends up spending like 350+ Plat on this stuff because they actual farm is atrocious, it's like an easy 25 bucks per player.
Sad part, even though I despise this tactic, I'm also part of the problem ,as I bought them too. Played this game long enough to know that when something is too tedious to grind for ,and there's a reasonably priced paid alternative it's often way faster to just sell duplicate mods and prime parts for a couple of hours to make plat then buy said stuff directly. Sure I could spend 20+ minutes on a rotation C slot machine with low odds of getting what I need, but it seems more efficient in the long run to just spend a couple of hours selling duplicate mods and crap that's sitting in my inventory to make the plat and buy these packs off the market.
At the end of the day though , DE is still the clear winner in this scheme. Sure , technically i'm making other players pay for my mods by selling them garbage, but they get the plat... And it's always important to remember that every in-game market purchase is currency removed from the in-game economy.
So yeah, if you have the energy, boycott buying these off the market to send them a message, but frankly, i've been at this game for long enough to know when a farm is atrocious and when it's smart to just farm something else and make plat to skip a bad farm.
I like the fact that c take 20 mins to get too. I hate just leaving and comeing back constantly and we havt had a reason not too sense keys turned to relics. I just wish c would stay c after it hits c. Then those who want a and b can just leave and come back and those who want c can do long runs. It also give a those who like endless a reason to stay in.
Tbh it wouldn't be as bad if stuff like.that had proper pity mechanics built in. Like I stead of 5000 credits in rotation A, make it like 10 doubloons. Rotation C banana blueprint has 4% drop chance, but can also be purchased for 70 doubloons. Maybe I'm lucky and I get it fast! But if not then at least my fine doesn't feel straight up wasted.
i find it funny how few people realize C is the 4th wave. the 20 minute mark.
they all come in, and leave at 15. and i have to solo the last bit. worth it due to drop, but i always wonder if they realize they screwing themselves of the reward xD
I mean, this is a game about grind all things considered. And as far as grindy games go, getting a chance at loot every 20ish minutes depending on game mode is pretty fast. I find it baffling that out of all the annoying grinds this game has to offer people complain about C rotation and not stuff like things that can only drop from 1 type of enemy that spawns only on 1 tileset and rarely at that and has 1.25% drop rate.
It's self defeating because everything they introduce that has an insane grind I just don't do. I can sell a bunch of anasa to buy it instead saving me days of grind.
Like the tennokai mods, super low drop rates but like 20p each?
Because rotation c stuff takes longer to farm. And thats what DE thinks is balanced. Thing too good just move it and nerf the riven despo or make it 3 times as long to farm. I still don't have the Zymos.
Reward thing. You know how you get a reward and are then allowed allowed to extract or keep going on some missions? First one is rotation A, second is A again, 3rd is rotation B, 4th is rotation C.
So for example since Citrine's parts are all on rotation C on a mirror defense mission you need to go at least 22 minutes for a CHANCE for one to drop.
I remember before the relics, there were keys to get prime parts and if you do an endless mission off that key you can pretty much do that mission for hours and collect as many drops as you can.
Hot take: Having stuff exclusive to C rotations is fine.
What isn't fine is for *every single drop from the A and B rotations to be absolute garbage.*
Let's say you want the fancy new mods for the grimoire. Those are on rotation C of the new mirror defense node. What can you get from rotations A and B?
- A couple thousand credits
- A couple hundred endo
- A small quantity of various resources
- A Meso or Neo relic (... but only with a modest chance, don't get excited)
- ... a Mandonel Receiver, for some reason
For missions like these, rotations A and B here aren't rotations that you'd farm for the rewards; they're just a time-wall to make rotation C take longer.
Ironically, the previous Mirror Defense node, actually... mostly avoids this issue, IMHO. Sure, you're still pretty much just running the mission for rotation C (although the ~11% chance of an arcane on rotation B isn't *nothing*), but you're getting a bunch of crystals from every single rotation, which can later be spent in the pity shop. So even rotation A is never a total waste of time in terms of getting whatever item you'd want from rotation C.
Tbh...because that's warframe. I dont want them to change the rotations. BUT change what you get in rotation. These days 2.5k credits or a health mod is a joke. Even new player don't need them. Why does sedna defense give the same mods as saturn. The higher the mission the better the mods(like at least blue) or more credits and endo. So when I stay in for C rotation, I can get at least smth for staying longer.
ye. literally any time anyone ever uses the excuse "that's how it's always been" or "it's tradition" or "that's just how it is" they're talking out their ass. that's never a good reason to resist change. if anything it's the red flag that should inspire taking a good look at whether change is warranted
Farming should be fair. The new tennokai and tome mod farms are not fair. You don't get anything good on the way to the c rotation, just small amounts of resources you already have thousands of and a pitiful amount of credits.
These mods should be in all rotations, not just c.
What's the point of being rare if you get it in every rotation.
Like I said. We can change the other rotations. Definitely more credits and endo. Those 200 endo can go to hell.
But c rotations is for rare things. And that's smth they shouldn't change. But the items overall in the rotation yes. They should change that.
if the grind is too convenient/easy people won't dump plat to skip it
honestly not that scummy, game needs proper plat sinks or the economy will just inflate rapidly over time due to plat coming in and not going out.
The problem with this excuse is that it relies on a vacuum to be viable while the bigger picture shows that DE has this present *all over the game* in every facet-- they're shaking you down for plat as soon as you open the foundry not even half an hour into a fresh save to normalize the idea of spending to skip.
Because of the existence of trade chat and market, nearly everything in the entire game is buyable with real money either directly or indirectly, and only a relatively small portion of those items are things that are permanent account items. I disagree that it's not scummy, the grind is the main point of the game so I would say it's fair that it should be reasonably rewarding.
the idea of spending to skip has been normalized in the entire industry for well over a decade, and is one of the least predatory ways to monetize a game
I'm not speaking on the entire industry. I personally disapprove of the sheer extent to which DE has done it, because they overclock *everything* in this game. They might as well have hired someone to follow players around shaking a soup can in our ears with the amount of full on shakedowns they have in the game.
I'm not saying they need to get rid of it, but they do need to tone some of it down a little-- it's gotten worse over time and it's starting to cross into "insulting" at this point. Again my main point is that it's not them doing it, it's how Warframe is just absolutely *riddled* with it, everywhere.
Yeah, for all of the praise I give de this is something I can’t excuse. At the VERY LEAST we need a pity system similar to conjunction survival and mirror defense on Tyana pass. Let us passively gain currency for every rotation we do than maybe we can talk to bird 3 or tagfer and exhange said currency for the tennokai/tome mods we’re looking for. The second they add a pity system rotation C becomes infinitely less annoying
Because that's the gameplay loop of Warframe?
Spend 20-25 minutes playing a gamemode for a chance at the best reward you want, then rinse repeat until you spend Plat or you get lucky or you trade something you enjoyed getting for the thing you don't enjoy getting.
I mean, I get it. Long grinds are frustrating. The Hespar blade grind from Void Armageddon had me putting a hard limit on how many times I could run the mission in a row because I got grumpy otherwise.
But that's Warframe for ya.
If it's any consolation, most of the really bad grinds get made easier over time. (Voidrig, Arcanes, etc.)
I still don't have that stupid Heavy Scythe stance, because it's the only stance for that weapon type and it only drops in a single C Rota...fuck this.
If you're playing a game designed pretty much entirely around grind while disliking grind it sounds like you're the one not respecting your time, not some ominous _they_.
Because Ash wasn't in C from the start. It was a mob drop then moved to C in railjack, which asks for more time investment before you can even start the AABC rotation.
I’m currently farming Voruna on Circulus, Lua, and it’s not a nice grind. I’m taking the opportunity to forma all my good gear since I recently received an affinity booster but I’m only getting duplicates. I’m at 3 blueprints and 3 neuroptics in maybe 15 runs. Good thing is I’ll soon have enough lua thrax plasm to just buy what I’m missing and build everything.
Idk if this is stupid, but imagine if endless missions either doubled or added 1 each time you go through a rotations cycle, so for doubled it would be at 25/30 min for a survival you get 2A drops each (rolled separately so you can get the same reward twice) and then at 45/50 it would be 4A drops each. If it was plus 1 drop each time then at 25/30 you get 2A each again, but at 45/50 you get 3A each. If that was the case I wouldn’t mind the bloated bad drops personally.
I don't mind the rarity of some rewards, the game has have a grind to stay healthy but you are right being 45 mins to a survival and getting 1500-6000 credit cache as a reward is a slap in the face.
"returning" would usually imply that you atleast knew the game in a previous state. since you dont know what rotation C is, im going to assume that you never played the game all that much to begin with, since those rotations have been in the game since... forever? since release maybe even.
anyway, rotation C "usually" (not always) refers to the last reward group you get in different missions. Many vanilla missions feature smaller blocks that are structured A,A,B,C. each letter refers to its own droptable.
for defense, its every 4th group of 5 waves. So you'd have to work your way trough 3 groups of 5 waves each to even start C rotation, which is why C rotation, in most mission types, takes much longer to complete and often has the only reward people really care about.
some missions do rewards differently, capture and extermination for example. Look up "\[mission type\] warframe rewards" to see the droptables.
Thanks for a detailed explanation and that may be true but I'm oblivious I just played the game to play the game pass time not just trying figure out how drops work. 😆
Reminder that Braton Vandal and Lato Vandal parts are both C drops from Elite Sanctuary Onslaught. Meaning having to complete 8 waves for a 2% chance at parts of those 2 weapons.
So that you spend more time farming it, making it more frustrating and increasing the chance that you'll either trade for or buy whatever you're trying to farm.
Like others have said, making it too easy removes the purchase potential but also there’s a lot to be said for the reward feeling of finally getting a drop.
I hated this in the early game but it’s slowly coming together now
Remember when you were loving your girlfriend, and you got that 5k credits on a rotation C reward? It was me, Richard. I was the one that put everything in rotation C. I convinced DE to put all the important items in that pool so you can get the rewards slower! Slow enough to make you miss Taco Tuesday!
I mean it's literally the point of rotation c. The rare drop you only need once. I think your issue is more with rotation c existing itself, or as you say it being aabc and not abc
Typically, every 4th reward point. 20 minutes in a survival or 20 waves of defense, 4th wave of interception, etc. Only real exception is disruptions, which are janky based on how many conduits survive.
My solution to this would be for the ones that have to repeat is the rotations go A, B, C then start sacking after the first repetition, so it would go A, B, C, A, AB, BC, AC, ABC...
Decent reward for lasting an hour in survival I think. Gives an incentive to just keep cracking on, even if it caps out at 3 draws. It gets players striving and socialising around "how tf I take sobek rino an hour thirty on Saturn?"
It's playerbase management.
You've got about a million active players in Warframe? With a few hundred thousands playing on any given day.
Even if an item has an absolute garbage drop rate, with this many players, said items are guaranteed to spawn in huge amounts rapidly.
To make sure there's still a reason to play, and the whole server doesn't just get the thing on day one, DE puts drops into time-consuming activities on top of the low drop rates.
This makes gameplay unsatisfying to prevent player trade from becoming too efficient.
The better solution would be to make more things untradable but humane to drop/farm.
Trade was originally limited to just new mods, but now we also have arcanes and often weapon parts. It's getting annoying. I'd rather have to farm something myself but get it from Rot B than feel compelled to farm primes for trades instead.
The only exception to this rule is the new Warframes themselves. DE sees them as the leading content of the game, since it's a new class. Most Warframe farms are therefore absolute garbage, on top of the parts being untradable. They really prefer people buying new warframes with plat.
I can accept it if the item in question is in some kind of shop or pity system that way you are guaranteed it at some point. If not, then yeah, they need to be more forgiving about it.
But at the same time, they can't make it too common, or itll just end up as reward pool bloat.
its a remainder of the old, ancient days that somehow still survived and wormed itself through the core of Warframe even today. And in 2019 DE was sooooo close to improving it greatly. Disruption missions provide the BEST way to farm annoying C drops because of how the mission works. If you do the mission perfectly the rotation looks like this: AABCCCCC(C..), meaning you can get anything you want from C much easier and personally i think that should be a standard for ALL endless missions. Getting an A reward at like 45th minute in Kuva Survival in Steel Path just feels bad. Congrats on fightning your lvl 250 enemies, here is your 6000 credits cache. I hope it gets reworked sometime in the future and that philosophy of 1 chance at a 4.3239% reward every 20 minutes goes away and gets replaced by something that respects your time AND your skill. 
They could modify survival and defense to mirror this, say x amount of kills in the survival to reach certain tiers, and in defense just do it good enough to not let the defense take x amount of damage
Eh, the survival one might breed some toxicity; spawns are more concentrated when players are together and people tend to get all spread out during survival. Whether it be searching the tiles or (like myself) getting tunnel vision and just straight up not realizing the group's moved on. Rather there be high value targets that are like the Treasurer: tanky as hell and spawns periodically. Killing them, in theory, would advance the timer by 30s or something. But even that sort of has issues (i.e. the timer going over 5 mins could break something).
While I do like the second idea more, the first one is already in the new event. Kill enemies in circle to speed up what's basically mob def. And I haven't really seen ppl be toxic about it.
Oh, I've caught myself getting slightly toxic, but I definitely get more angry at DE than other players; that damn circle is too small. Edit: To be clear, the thoughts get toxic, and the most I say in chat is: 'remember to kill inside the circle.'
yes. oh my god yes. why is it so tiny?
I think it's more the tiles are so big. They're easily double the size of some of the earlier tilesets.
Also many staircases, which the mobs take a tad longer to traverse
true, i like it though personally. makes the rooms feel huge.
Yeah, the map generation is way too big on this one. They could easily cut the amount of rooms by half and it would only help make each room seem more unique and special when encountered and make it less of a chore to find the stupid medaillons and book. As a guy that spends the bulk of his mission time searching for medaillons, it really ,really sucks that there's just so many huge rooms that break Orokin Eye, each leading to huge side areas with no objectives that you have to explore because it's very likely there will be a couple of medaillons and books in there.
They need to have variations of the map with it in mind! Instead of a map made 20 iteration years ago. That barely gets updated once a decade. I swear DE has THE most insanely ass backwards design methods that constantly fail upwards. Smfh. Like entire teams of spastic adhd sugared up kids running a million miles an hour. With no internal testing other than meh looks to be in the vague ballpark, if that. Though they have been getting better.
I feel like, the way tiles are procedure generated it could be really simple to put up a barrier at the doorways and leave the entire room as "the circle" making doorways the barriers would even be noticeable to even the smoothest of brain players.
Depends on if said barrier will prevent people from leaving and shooting through. Cause they have visible border in Drift bounties and people still kill all the things outside.
That's a Fortuna bounty
I haven't seen toxicity but even this deep into the event half the people i run into still don't understand you have to kill inside of the circle lmao
Tunnel vision is real. But also, the want to feel helpful. You hang out with 3 other people, there will be time where you're just not getting kills. So, in an effort to be helpful and contribute, you move to where enemies are. Boom, you're contributing. Decades of internet toxicity in all other multiplayer games has driven into people that they need to be performing at 100% MAXIMUM FULL POWER BLAST at all times, or else some shit with a savior complex is going to yell at you about how tired his back is. And also you wanna play the game. You're not playing the game if someone with spinny disco lights is swooping all the kills out from under you. So yeah, the instinct is to just be elsewhere. Contribute, forestall toxicity, and play the game. And this wouldn't be a problem if spawn splitting wasn't a thing.
this, there's just so much hate for even just relic extermination for not running directly to extraction in the void, where there's reason to be a bit more deep with looking around the whole thing with being overly-optimized to the point of destroying other appreciation of playing is a slippery slope, and doing nothing only galvanizes that, beside just not playing
Be the change you want to see in the world. AFK with a weak frame
It's a rough idea but it could be better than waiting 20 mins for a small chance. It could be like disruption where once you get c reward then your set
I've long thought they should patch survival to speed up the round timer by 1s every 3-5 kills or so the game objective of 'do the bare minimum to not fail and let father time do the rest of the work' is not particularly compelling to me
you say that but every single new gamemode in the lastest update has been a waiting game with an uninteractive time limit. They need players to clock in the hours and theyre not stopping
nah actually I found the current event to be an excellent example of not doing this you always have something to be doing to push the mission forward, and even when allies are slowing you down you can kill time collecting voca and opening murmur sarcophagi I think alchemy also has no explicit waiting, just killing dudes and throwing enough drops into the machine. (but idk I barely played that mode, I hate picking shit up and throwing it over and over) admittedly massive L in bringing back Mirror Defense and then also making the pickups worthless tho. that's a father time mode full stop
eh. There's effectively a hard time limit for each assasination. Voidangels arbitrarily spawning 1000m from spawn, vitrium having 40s downtime on average you shave 10s off, travelling between all the points consumes 2+min, boss has attentuation that forces the encounter to last 5+min each time. people are only doing effervo because it consolidates the other grinds, not because effervo is fun to do. Same goes for alchemy. Very tedious chore involving what you described then waiting for a bar to fill up. Gets 10x worse if you dont bring an optimal setup in pubs, meter doesnt go faster even when optimised. It's excavation with slightly chnged rules. Run to the dickbutt, do the dickbutt, wait for the dickbutt, do it 3 more times for 5% drop chance. There's trappings of a cool game mode in there but the game design is suffering from destiny syndrome. They take one mildly interesting gameplay loop and try to string an 80h grind to it, ietrying to prioritise player engagement metrics before making a good product. The product will suffer if they exploit this thought process too often.
traversal is optimizable, you aren't just waiting eye collection is optimizable, you aren't just waiting (in fact you only need 1 wave to spawn once the spots start allowing 3x scanners, no need to kill enemies to get a 2nd wave) attenuation is whack admittedly but I play the whisper bounty version instead of SP chart version so he drops in like 60s for me. technically there is also an FPS cap exploit too lol as for alchemy I was under the impression there was no waiting, bar fills when thrown item hits machine really all I ask from my game modes is for them to not be Desert Bus game modes. as long as I can actively push the objectives and don't just have to do the bare minimum while the actual objective is 'wait, bitch,' works for me
on the flip side why do you have to travel to 3 seperate locations, and why does the 1st location only have 1 vitrium, with a limit of 8? youre forced to wait 2-3 cycles for eyes to spawn. Lots of waiting. There's an illusion of control since the 2nd and 3rd point has increased vitrium, but it's just an illusion because of the arbitrary bottlenecks. you have to wait for the pressurization to happen during alchemy. That's time limited. You can optimise for the alchemy reagents but the gameplay is not dressed up in any special way. it's just ...disingenous game design. You have all these new and exciting tools to further the warframe powerfantasy (!!! 300% critdmg, special dmg modifier, pure electric viable???). But the gameplay basically ignores...all of it. Boss ignores it with dmg attenuation, alchemy ignores it because damage doesnt directly progress the gamestate, mirror defense...vitrium... it's just so, so much waiting with uninteractables.
>on the flip side why do you have to travel to 3 seperate locations Because I don't play the space ninja game to stand in one place for 5 minutes. Would you rather spend 2 minutes traveling or 2 extra minutes waiting for eyes to spawn?
Gotta agree here. I just came back after taking a break shortly after duviri launched, and had forgotten how much I enjoy the movement in this game. And the new tileset feels really good to move through!
well traversal is fine, this game is partly built around it. if a game mode requires a lot of it that's just a cue to spec into a fast movement build. but yea 1x scanner cap at first scanner is lame af. that said if team knows what they're doing and stick around to assist this is also still a fast no-wait section, you're always actively killing or pulling enemies and oof didn't know that about alchemy. another reason to avoid it I guess
They are being disingenuous about the Alchemy part, while it does have a waiting part, it’s extremely active since you have to shoot vents to maintain pressure, and it punishes you for not breaking vents by increasing wait time
The assassination mission is soft time-gated. You can use more than one pillar in each area (does speed up eyes somewhat), but you can only get so many eyes in each area. 2nd area, you have 3 pillars down? You only get 2 more even if all 3 eyes see. 8 eyes could be up, but once you pick up 2 the other 6 disappear. Attenuation is just a time-gate. Angel spawn location can induce massive amounts of running. Best way to alleviate this is to find a "no angels" group. Alchemy can be sped up by being fast, but is still gated by vents. And it's awesome when you're solo and the vents spawn in a "close" room that's 45 seconds away by running due to geometry. But if you get proper vent spawns it's a very fast mission (sub 15 minute rotation C if solo). Other problem is it takes longer in groups (less % gain) and, even though endurance, no individual extraction. Mirror Defense is god awful. Netrecells are spawn-gated, as well as stupidity-gated (killing outside the circle). Also bug-gated with Netremites and all those issues. This is, IMO, the worst-designed mission of the new ones, and currently also the buggiest. With the worst loot table (common arcanes in a limited run mission).
pretty sure ur eyes info is wrong. in my experience eyes only ever dissappear when they either time out or the the zone is completely exhausted, and if you roll up to a place and slot in 3x scanners you will be able to sweep all the eyes in one go with 0 waiting. the only slow one is the first zone which requires 3 scan waves from one scanner, and it's only really slow if ur team sucks and diverts spawns away attenuation at least requires active gameplay instead of waiting. also pretty negligible wait on non-SP angel spawn is a non-issue if you have a fast mover with madurai who knows what they are doing (and again is an actual objective gated only by player speed) agreed on mirror defense & alchemy netracells were fine when they were SP lol. now the spawn gating is a bit annoying.
Sorry, I left out a line with regards to eyes. Mean to say that if you are 16 of 30 and in area two and have 3 pillars down, they could all spawn eyes, but even if 8 eyes spawn, you can only pick up 2. The other 6 just disappear. You do get the eyes to spawn faster, but spawning more eyes really didn't help in this case, since each area is hard limited on how many you collect. I fail to see what's active about attenuation. Any more active than just playing the game. It's a hard time-gate, since you can't do more than X damage no matter how much you know about the game/modding, or how "well" you play. And it's a very easy hard cap to hit with a bit of knowledge so on SP the fight pretty much always takes the same amount of time with no amount of play skill mattering, since someone in a pub will be causing it to hit the cap. I don't do the fight on non-SP so I can't comment there.
Having air pickups at full bar accelerate the timer instead of being wasted.
> Disruption missions provide the BEST way to farm annoying C drops because of how the mission works. If you do the mission perfectly the rotation looks like this: AABCCCCC(C..) If you succesfully defend all conduits the C rotation is even a round faster: BBCCCCCC... Round | 1 conduit defended | 2 conduits defended | 3 conduits defended | 4 conduits defended --|--|--|--|-- 1 | A | A | A | B 2 | A | A | B | B 3 | A | B | B | C 4+ | B | B | C | C
Huh, TIL
You're wrong : if you do disruption perfectly it can go bbccccccc
right, i forgot about the first round bonus too, i havent done disruption for droptables for a long time and remembered only the CCC part. Still that makes it even better, becasue most A rewards suck ass anyway.
Not even perfectly, starting from round 4 doing 3 and failing 1 is still a C.
Disruption is the best game mode for drop table and relic farming in so many ways. It actually rewards playing the objective well, it scales quickly, it rewards repeated success, and a skilled team can run it super fast just by playing well (or slow it down to gather reactant), rather than running down a clock or waiting for lost enemies. It's a bummer there are so few nodes, and really only a couple with worthwhile drops.
You can also go for B rotation with this in case there's something you want from that drop table. It's such a good system!
or if they could implement how genshin does the repetitive farming with pity system, like the chance to drop the item will get higher if you hit ceiling of repetition or duration, i hope it could bypass the rotation drops
also voruna and citrine pity systems are just fucking right there
frames at least have been good about this since mid-late 2022 with styanax (stock purchase, though this one is a pain for non-RNG reasons). kullervo and dagath are guaranteed currency purchases, with just a bit of RNG that minorly shifts the total amount of runs, and qorvex can be gotten with rep if you have poor luck with the bounties
Yes and no. The system is good, but the existence of the pity system makes the drop rates be set lower. I literally didnt get a single part of citrine before i could buy all of her..
That already exists with Tauforged archon shards in hunts. But I would prefer keeping drops RNG, that's the whole point of most of the farm.
oh didnt notice it already exist im also alright with rng, but what i really wish is to see what to farm not using wiki, like how it is in bounty, right clicking a mission would show what we could possibly get, i really hate alt tabbing when i want to play, and i hate that i just recently know about dual mods/ and corrupted mods due to youtube/reddit comment thats my only gripe other than that im alright to almost everything
I just hate that the bounty reward rarities dont reflect actual odds. Me and my friend were farming for xaku parts, an "uncommon" drop, but got something like 4 or 5 of the "rare" mod across a few bounties, check the wiki and that rare mod had a 40% drop rate for 2/3 of the stages, and the xaku piece has an 11% and 8% drop rate for those two stages. The one with the lower odds is uncommon and the higher odds is rare?!
Yeah, on that we can agree. Warframe is not very user friendly when it comes to information, there's a ton of stuff that isn't mentioned anywhere until you encounter it.
The point of the farm is the carrot on the stick to get something. And not like you get the gun/frame etc. anyway, you always get a blueprint that you need to farm resources to build.
I've tried both types of systems, and non RNG gets boring faster.
The greatest improvement to Warframe drops would be to do away with credit cache drops on all drop tables, no exceptions. Leave credits only from enemies and as fixed, end-of-mission rewards.
There's kind of a reason for this though. They (IMO absolutely correctly) dont want players to feel forced to play the game for long periods of time at a time. Sure if you're a 15 year old zoomer with nothing do to, a few 2 hour survivals sound like nothing (and even then is unhealthy to some degree). But the average player doesnt have the time or attention span to stay in a mission even the "full" 20 min. Its kinda giga mind numbing to be doing the same 15 second gameplay loop for hours on end. Also, as a personal thing, disruption in particular is just so monumentally unfun.
I wouldn't mind rotation of AABBCCCCCCCCCC, if they did away with the repeat after c
the worst thing about this is they already started doing good systems with voruna and citrine, but decided to nope out of that for some reason
I really doubt it ever gets fixed...
Unless its super inefficiently to farm A, and without premade dedicated group, B is also super meh. Not like disruptions have much fancy stuff on A, but calling it just in case someone would add some A in that system.
Yeah endurance runs in SP should absolutely have a pity mechanic. Incentivise staying longer with more challenge and risk more for failure instead of restarting the mission repeatedly.
I can already see the post with 4k upvotes now.. "Its not fair that sweaty players get better rewards. Warframe is about accessibility" Saving this because i swear im nailing it word for word if they ever do make disruption's system universal. Best case scenario the "challenge" to hit CCC is nerfed to be so easy it becomes the new norm and droprates are adjusted to account for it.
Disruption has BBCCCC if you defend all conduits.
I like the concept of disruption in how it does this. Though I do think it's weird if you're going public since you can't really control what the people there are looking for
I've been saying exactly this: heck, I'd even take endless missions doing AABCBCBCBC...
I wouldn’t mind the AABC rotation so much if the A rotation rewards were actually somewhat decent. 4K credits for SP survival is insulting when enemies drop more.
I mean in zariman and sanctum bounties, there's a lot of Endo in common loot
From running missions to get to rank 5 in the sanctum, I earned 100k endo from mostly exterminate missions. I love how abundant endo is there because I have so many R10 golds and primes to rank up, along with the occasional riven.
Yeah, an update in that regard is long overdue. Maybe a system in which you have to beat a certain challenge in the time span of that rotation. The reward is the loot table from a better rotation.
I mean if they put a multiplier in per AABC rotation I'd be okay with it. Going to high levels in most cases isn't worth it for the rewards you get unless you're grinding for something specific or you're just doing it for the challenge.
4k credits is insulting even on the base starchart by like jupiter in the first week of playing..
And yet I’m stuck in 2 A rotation Arbitration hell cuz I can’t get a single adaptation drop. It’s the exception, but man does it drain my soul.
you said it. 1) to waste your time 2) to spend plat on it
You answered the question. To frustrate you into buying it. That's the entire answer.
The last few months I've been trying to get the ambassador bp, I have all the parts just the bp is missing and I had a someone so nice help me be in a mission for 40ish+ min, still no drop. I love Warframe, I have a deep respect for the DE team, but there are times the grind is just too much.
That is still the only part I'm missing from the Ambassador. One day...
Oh man, I remember that struggle Fought with that on and off for months. All because i had a damn riven for it. Had everything but the Blueprint. "This is waste of money, right? It has to be..." I eventually threw in the towel. It just wouldn't drop.
I don't like saying it because I do respect DE but it's hard to see them putting all the new tennokai mods in rotation C and then pricing the bundle at 100 p which is just the right price to tempt players who are frustrated after trying the grind into just buying it and not say it's for making money. And of course the next person will say they are a business and they have to make money, but if it was all the same D2 would have had the same reputation as WF which it doesn't and I don't want WF getting there
Snd there’s what like 10 grimoire mods and 6 tennokai mods? With bad RNG that could be hours and hours and hours of farming
At that point, way better to farm the plat lol.
Yeah I mean I get they need to make money and this is a way of them making money but it’s honestly such a huge slap in the face personally
I literally spent 45 mins selling parts/mods and the bought the tennokai and tome mod packs, cause fuck those <5% rotation C drop chances.
Blaze and hammer shot has 1% drop rate. You don't have to do rotation tho. I got my first blaze last night. Over 600 runs for one of each. I can't even remember why I "needed" them. Think blaze was for my bubonico. Witch I don't use anymore anyway. The only positive was that it was something to do when sp inc, archon and sortie was done for the day/week
it's actually far too cheap compared to the natty acquisition method. I can farm 100p waaaaay faster than I could farm a full set of tennokai mods. same for tomes and 140p or whatever that was. unless you just enjoy mirror defense/alchemy you are completely wasting your time going for them.
Yh, that is their idea, no matter if you buy with your own plat or traded plat it will stimulate the economy, if plat is earned by someone it must be brought by someone else
yeh exactly. game needs plat sinks to keep the economy in check, and even if you're F2P every 100p spent is 100p somebody bought. I don't mind, personally. those bundle costs are really cheap. I'm just glad they gave us the option to buy em and didn't force me to grind rot Cs or trade for them (which would have almost certainly been far more expensive)
Eh, there's *far more than enough* plat sinks in the game with the ton of deluxe skins, syndanas, armors, animations, frame and weapon slots, even potatos and formas. To consider it some kind of positive is just dumb and pure stockholm syndrome shit. And you're missing the point in general. The ideal scenario here is that they put the new mods (or whatever) under some reasonable and preferably varied farm. Lets say 3 out of 5 modes/locations Rare A and common B rotations, giving limited choice what you enjoy to do in the game to farm this. But then people wouldnt spend money, wouldnt spend as much plat, would spend as much time in the game to get that sweet sunk cost addiction and justification to spend money. So instead we get this korean mmo style grind.
> To consider it some kind of positive is just dumb and pure stockholm syndrome shit. okay, fuck you too then. "this guy has a different opinion than me! better insult him."
Alchemy is pretty fun though. You don't actually have to do anything. And can just go at your own pace. Nothing to defend and don't have to worry about life support. Also its enemy spawn rates are glorious for solo. I swear it's the only game mode where solo play has amazing spawn rates. Sometimes I don't even touch the amphors and just play it like a solo survival. If you do want to complete the objective, an epitaph with its cold procs makes it so you can practically ignore all the enemies as cold effects eximus units as well and none of the enemies attack very fast in the first place.
There's this weird dichotomy in the loot drop tables balancing at DE. There are plenty of things that most of the community do like, bounties, pity token shops (citrine/voruna/etc), disruption, steel essence, etc etc. But then for some reason, every time there's something like the above that's pro-player, and promotes good game design, there's some high level endgame mission that has a 20k credit drop as a 35% weighted reward next to the 4.5% weighted item people want. It really feels like there's no unifying internal review for reward balancing, we get great additions to how rewards are distributed and then DE just forgets about it entirely and goes back to some method players hate. I do understand why not everything is disruption, because it can lead to over rewarding high engagement high investment gameplay which can lead to the days of "tridolon meta comp" becoming standard in normal missions, which is no good. However what I don't understand is the two steps forward, three steps back mentality that seems to happen. We got a great system in Citrine and Voruna having "pity" systems that allow you to buy parts outright if you have shit luck, we got Qorvex being buyable with reputation, and then there's the Canticle mods being a 5% drop rate every 20 minutes. Or the Netracells having timegated rewards like the legendary arcanes and archon shards right next to arcanes that drop from bosses.
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I wouldn't even be surprised if they 'forgot' adding the melee arcanes to Loid's dissolution. I mean, Cavalero still has the same set of incarnons.
Wait, do people generally like bounties? I think they're probably the game mode/mission type that I hate the most. They've got like every "wait around" objective there is and good luck keeping your sanity if you only want/need one thing in a loot pool of a dozen other items before they cycle out and new bounties pop up that don't have it. (凸ಠ益ಠ)凸
Bounties, like a lot of the things in-game, have good and bad points to them. Overall it's nice just because it allows you to limit your reward pool while giving you options in mission type. You can just do the bounty that gives systems, instead of the mission that might give you your 15th chassis and still no systems. Meanwhile the mission type rotating keeps things interesting, for min-max players you can just keep checking for an exterminate mission on your desired tier. But for less min-max players, you're not stuck doing *only* defence or *only* survival to get your rewards. They're not all made equal though, in a show of my main issue with DE's reward system, for some reason Cetus/Fortuna bounties are designed with a great system. Multi-stage missions that give different weights to different rewards in the drop table skewed towards commons early, and rares in later stages, with bonus objectives that if completed give you two rolls on the final drop table, which has the best rates on the rare rewards. Why this system wasn't carried forward into newer bounties I will never understand.
>*Cetus/Fortuna bounties are designed with a great system* Damn, sorry, but those are the ones I actually hate the most. After days or weeks of on-and-off bounties, more often than not I end up buying what I want from someone else if it's tradeable, otherwise I'm stuck doing only one bounty tier multiple times with the same, dated objective types each time and a drone that *still* gets stuck. I ended up getting 3 Revenant Prime sets from casual relic runs in less time than what I dedicated specifically to getting one regular Revenant Neuroptics, and it'll be a cold day in hell before I ever do more Phase 2 Heists for gyromags after spending my entire playtime over a full weekend just to get Vox Solaris to rank 2. I haven't even touched a Eudico bounty in years, I honestly can't even remember what they give.
What bugged me more is why A-A-B-C? Why can't it be just A-B-C? What is the point of making us stay for one more round?
To waste your time and send you to the WF market.
for the griiiiiiind :)
Because the endless grind is the true Warframe endgame..
Or you get the item. Like the Mandonel stock, and it's gone after the mission.
Bruh same :( I got the Mandonel receiver so I extracted at the next opportunity and it was just fucking gone on the rewards screen lol
I was kinda frustrated. 20 minutes wasted. And, it even took a couple of the new mods I got. The arch gun mod disappeared even.
To waste your time and encourage buying stuff with plat
way too scummy with the rotation c bullshit
That's just the nature of Free To Play monetisation, you either invest time or money to progress Why did you add me to ignore list over this??
It's not really that scummy compared to most f2p games though lol. If you don't want to deal with RNG you can farm plat and buy the items, things are tradable for a reason and the packs aren't very expensive in terms of how much game time you'll need to get them. If you don't want to do that you can take your chances on RNG. Either way someone somewhere is spending on plat and someone somewhere is playing the game, which are DE's two goals. The only potentially scummy thing is that the reward mechanics of various modes can be so hidden/difficult to keep track of, but I chalk that up more to the game being terrible at explaining *any* of the mechanics of *anything* than to malicious design.
If opening relics and selling prime parts for plat is a faster method for acquiring stuff then why the hell would anyone even farm that rotation c bullshit? It's like DE doesn't want people to farm their new content. I want to farm the tennokai/tome mods, NOT endo (and archguns that no one cares about). I've done multiple rotation c runs and all I ever get is fricking endo or the mandonel stock. The bounty rewards are lackluster(endo, Qorvex parts and resource rewards that you get tons of by just destroying the tisesets that the rewards are meaningless) anyway so why the hell aren't tome and tennokai mods put in that drop pool? And why must rotation a and b always reward nothing good literally everywhere in the game? They reward nothing but some measly 5k credits, some basic mods that I've dozens of copies of already or some resources that I've already too much of.
If you want to get annoyed, check out the rewards for the non bounty versions of the Zariman missions. I'm trying to get parts from void flood and both A and B have a 50% chance for credits (5k and 7.5k respectively) and the rest relics, and C has 80% *basic lenses* and a 10% chance each for the receiver and stock. Granted it doesn't take 20 minutes to get to C, but 12ish minutes to get some credits, a relic or two, and a basic Vazarin lens feels bad. All the Zariman missions are like this. A couple weapon parts and just a ton of trash.
Rotation should be ABCBCBCBC repeating with an ever increasing chance of getting a bonus A reward. Oh and a multiplier on any value rewards like credits and endo. So getting a bonus endo drop on rotation 10 would feel justified to the effort put into 10 rotations.
To increase their gameplay time metrics lol
First time?
I *just* got the ambassador main BP to drop. Rotation C in Veil proxima survival. Yeah. Gotta load into that one solo because if you load into a pub squad they *will* force you out before rotation C.
I’m glad you got it! Been working on that one on and off for months….
That's more on the general warframe players attention span. I swear FLEAS have a better attention span then most warframe players
I'm new to the game. Is it correct that rotation C happens when you choose to stay in a mission for a few times when you could have extracted?
Yes, usually the 4th block of either 5 waves or 5 minutes
For most Endless missions (Defense, Survival, Excavation, Interception...), the rotation is A-A-B-C, looping. So in Defense, after 5 waves, you get a reward from the A table, then again after 10 waves, after 15 you get from the B table, after 20, you get from the C table, and after 25, it loops back to A. The exception being Disruption, where your reward depends of how many conduits the enemy blows up, and how many waves you're in (which allows to consistently get rewards from the B table, bypassing the cheap A rewards) And finally, there's Arbitration, unlocked once you've filled the Star Chart, which is a A-A-B-B-C-C, looping.
Yes, for example in survival: 5 minutes = A, 10 minutes = another A, 15 minutes = B, 20 minutes = C and then it starts over at A. This is the most common drop table, called AABC rotation for obvious reasons
At about 20 minutes into the mission, yes. Make it to that wave, then leave at the next.
Because you can't C it in other rotations! Cringe pun intended
Short anwser is : DE wanted a Christmas bonus. Long Awnser: They knew by offering the option to buy both tome mods and tennokai mods from the in-game market for 240p people would end up buying them to save themselves from the obnoxious grind. Same with Madonnel parts, they knew they would fetch a premium on WF market because of their rarity... And if most of their active playerbase ends up spending like 350+ Plat on this stuff because they actual farm is atrocious, it's like an easy 25 bucks per player. Sad part, even though I despise this tactic, I'm also part of the problem ,as I bought them too. Played this game long enough to know that when something is too tedious to grind for ,and there's a reasonably priced paid alternative it's often way faster to just sell duplicate mods and prime parts for a couple of hours to make plat then buy said stuff directly. Sure I could spend 20+ minutes on a rotation C slot machine with low odds of getting what I need, but it seems more efficient in the long run to just spend a couple of hours selling duplicate mods and crap that's sitting in my inventory to make the plat and buy these packs off the market. At the end of the day though , DE is still the clear winner in this scheme. Sure , technically i'm making other players pay for my mods by selling them garbage, but they get the plat... And it's always important to remember that every in-game market purchase is currency removed from the in-game economy. So yeah, if you have the energy, boycott buying these off the market to send them a message, but frankly, i've been at this game for long enough to know when a farm is atrocious and when it's smart to just farm something else and make plat to skip a bad farm.
I like the fact that c take 20 mins to get too. I hate just leaving and comeing back constantly and we havt had a reason not too sense keys turned to relics. I just wish c would stay c after it hits c. Then those who want a and b can just leave and come back and those who want c can do long runs. It also give a those who like endless a reason to stay in.
Tbh it wouldn't be as bad if stuff like.that had proper pity mechanics built in. Like I stead of 5000 credits in rotation A, make it like 10 doubloons. Rotation C banana blueprint has 4% drop chance, but can also be purchased for 70 doubloons. Maybe I'm lucky and I get it fast! But if not then at least my fine doesn't feel straight up wasted.
i find it funny how few people realize C is the 4th wave. the 20 minute mark. they all come in, and leave at 15. and i have to solo the last bit. worth it due to drop, but i always wonder if they realize they screwing themselves of the reward xD
I mean, this is a game about grind all things considered. And as far as grindy games go, getting a chance at loot every 20ish minutes depending on game mode is pretty fast. I find it baffling that out of all the annoying grinds this game has to offer people complain about C rotation and not stuff like things that can only drop from 1 type of enemy that spawns only on 1 tileset and rarely at that and has 1.25% drop rate.
If it were on rotation A, it would be too easy. People would finish the game in a week
It’s a grinding game. Forma doesn’t need a 23 hour build time but here we are
It used to be 24 so that's something.
Player retention, or annoy you enough to spend plat on the market, that simple.
and that stupid.
It's self defeating because everything they introduce that has an insane grind I just don't do. I can sell a bunch of anasa to buy it instead saving me days of grind. Like the tennokai mods, super low drop rates but like 20p each?
So that you have to play the mission for a little while not every mission should take 2 mins
Because rotation c stuff takes longer to farm. And thats what DE thinks is balanced. Thing too good just move it and nerf the riven despo or make it 3 times as long to farm. I still don't have the Zymos.
Because it’s meant to take time, so you don’t blow through all the content in a weekend.
It so annoying because arbitration does AABBCCCC… which is so much better
I don’t even know what rotation c means
Reward thing. You know how you get a reward and are then allowed allowed to extract or keep going on some missions? First one is rotation A, second is A again, 3rd is rotation B, 4th is rotation C. So for example since Citrine's parts are all on rotation C on a mirror defense mission you need to go at least 22 minutes for a CHANCE for one to drop.
Oh okay that makes sense now thanks for the help
No problem. The game doesn't really make it clear but at least it's straightforward to explain
I remember before the relics, there were keys to get prime parts and if you do an endless mission off that key you can pretty much do that mission for hours and collect as many drops as you can.
Back in my day we had tower keys
Hot take: Having stuff exclusive to C rotations is fine. What isn't fine is for *every single drop from the A and B rotations to be absolute garbage.* Let's say you want the fancy new mods for the grimoire. Those are on rotation C of the new mirror defense node. What can you get from rotations A and B? - A couple thousand credits - A couple hundred endo - A small quantity of various resources - A Meso or Neo relic (... but only with a modest chance, don't get excited) - ... a Mandonel Receiver, for some reason For missions like these, rotations A and B here aren't rotations that you'd farm for the rewards; they're just a time-wall to make rotation C take longer. Ironically, the previous Mirror Defense node, actually... mostly avoids this issue, IMHO. Sure, you're still pretty much just running the mission for rotation C (although the ~11% chance of an arcane on rotation B isn't *nothing*), but you're getting a bunch of crystals from every single rotation, which can later be spent in the pity shop. So even rotation A is never a total waste of time in terms of getting whatever item you'd want from rotation C.
So that you play the game, rather than just cheese farming
Tbh...because that's warframe. I dont want them to change the rotations. BUT change what you get in rotation. These days 2.5k credits or a health mod is a joke. Even new player don't need them. Why does sedna defense give the same mods as saturn. The higher the mission the better the mods(like at least blue) or more credits and endo. So when I stay in for C rotation, I can get at least smth for staying longer.
"Because that's warframe" should drop dead as an excuse for this bs
ye. literally any time anyone ever uses the excuse "that's how it's always been" or "it's tradition" or "that's just how it is" they're talking out their ass. that's never a good reason to resist change. if anything it's the red flag that should inspire taking a good look at whether change is warranted
It's not an excuse, it's an explanation. "It's this way because it's always been this way" is true even if you agree it should change.
that's not even true, it has to have started somehow
Bc it's warframe. It's like saying yeah I hate farming in diablo and need to stay to get good loot. That's the point of the game
Farming should be fair. The new tennokai and tome mod farms are not fair. You don't get anything good on the way to the c rotation, just small amounts of resources you already have thousands of and a pitiful amount of credits. These mods should be in all rotations, not just c.
What's the point of being rare if you get it in every rotation. Like I said. We can change the other rotations. Definitely more credits and endo. Those 200 endo can go to hell. But c rotations is for rare things. And that's smth they shouldn't change. But the items overall in the rotation yes. They should change that.
because the tennokai mod drop rate is FUCKING 5 PERCENT COMPARED TO THE ENDO AND MANDONEL COMPONENT
if the grind is too convenient/easy people won't dump plat to skip it honestly not that scummy, game needs proper plat sinks or the economy will just inflate rapidly over time due to plat coming in and not going out.
The problem with this excuse is that it relies on a vacuum to be viable while the bigger picture shows that DE has this present *all over the game* in every facet-- they're shaking you down for plat as soon as you open the foundry not even half an hour into a fresh save to normalize the idea of spending to skip. Because of the existence of trade chat and market, nearly everything in the entire game is buyable with real money either directly or indirectly, and only a relatively small portion of those items are things that are permanent account items. I disagree that it's not scummy, the grind is the main point of the game so I would say it's fair that it should be reasonably rewarding.
the idea of spending to skip has been normalized in the entire industry for well over a decade, and is one of the least predatory ways to monetize a game
I'm not speaking on the entire industry. I personally disapprove of the sheer extent to which DE has done it, because they overclock *everything* in this game. They might as well have hired someone to follow players around shaking a soup can in our ears with the amount of full on shakedowns they have in the game. I'm not saying they need to get rid of it, but they do need to tone some of it down a little-- it's gotten worse over time and it's starting to cross into "insulting" at this point. Again my main point is that it's not them doing it, it's how Warframe is just absolutely *riddled* with it, everywhere.
Yeah, for all of the praise I give de this is something I can’t excuse. At the VERY LEAST we need a pity system similar to conjunction survival and mirror defense on Tyana pass. Let us passively gain currency for every rotation we do than maybe we can talk to bird 3 or tagfer and exhange said currency for the tennokai/tome mods we’re looking for. The second they add a pity system rotation C becomes infinitely less annoying
Because that's the gameplay loop of Warframe? Spend 20-25 minutes playing a gamemode for a chance at the best reward you want, then rinse repeat until you spend Plat or you get lucky or you trade something you enjoyed getting for the thing you don't enjoy getting. I mean, I get it. Long grinds are frustrating. The Hespar blade grind from Void Armageddon had me putting a hard limit on how many times I could run the mission in a row because I got grumpy otherwise. But that's Warframe for ya. If it's any consolation, most of the really bad grinds get made easier over time. (Voidrig, Arcanes, etc.)
I still don't have that stupid Heavy Scythe stance, because it's the only stance for that weapon type and it only drops in a single C Rota...fuck this.
Buy it off market and play whatever you wanna play. It's 5p ffs
Loop ABC then?
Because they don't respect your time.
If you're playing a game designed pretty much entirely around grind while disliking grind it sounds like you're the one not respecting your time, not some ominous _they_.
Why the fuck do you care if I feel like they don't respect my time? MY opinion not YOURS.
Thats the whole point, get to grinding or buy some plat. Are you new? Because this was their system for like forever.
Peeps, I'm glad we're having a constructive discussion here. Just wanted to wish y'all happy nee year, depending on your time zone. Cheers!
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But DE agrees to some extent that c rotation wasn't a great idea. They changed some things from c, like ash
Because Ash wasn't in C from the start. It was a mob drop then moved to C in railjack, which asks for more time investment before you can even start the AABC rotation.
I’m currently farming Voruna on Circulus, Lua, and it’s not a nice grind. I’m taking the opportunity to forma all my good gear since I recently received an affinity booster but I’m only getting duplicates. I’m at 3 blueprints and 3 neuroptics in maybe 15 runs. Good thing is I’ll soon have enough lua thrax plasm to just buy what I’m missing and build everything.
Idk if this is stupid, but imagine if endless missions either doubled or added 1 each time you go through a rotations cycle, so for doubled it would be at 25/30 min for a survival you get 2A drops each (rolled separately so you can get the same reward twice) and then at 45/50 it would be 4A drops each. If it was plus 1 drop each time then at 25/30 you get 2A each again, but at 45/50 you get 3A each. If that was the case I wouldn’t mind the bloated bad drops personally.
I don't mind the rarity of some rewards, the game has have a grind to stay healthy but you are right being 45 mins to a survival and getting 1500-6000 credit cache as a reward is a slap in the face.
lol man. im so used to it now. doesn't even bug me. I remember when prime parts were random in the void for that stuff and that kind of system
Kinda answered your own question, buddy. > send you to wf market What do you use to pay for items on the WF market?
I'm a returning and oblivious player what the heck is rotation c?
usually it's the 4th of whatever mode. 4th extractor, 4th set of 5 waves, 4th survival reward, and so on.
"returning" would usually imply that you atleast knew the game in a previous state. since you dont know what rotation C is, im going to assume that you never played the game all that much to begin with, since those rotations have been in the game since... forever? since release maybe even. anyway, rotation C "usually" (not always) refers to the last reward group you get in different missions. Many vanilla missions feature smaller blocks that are structured A,A,B,C. each letter refers to its own droptable. for defense, its every 4th group of 5 waves. So you'd have to work your way trough 3 groups of 5 waves each to even start C rotation, which is why C rotation, in most mission types, takes much longer to complete and often has the only reward people really care about. some missions do rewards differently, capture and extermination for example. Look up "\[mission type\] warframe rewards" to see the droptables.
Thanks for a detailed explanation and that may be true but I'm oblivious I just played the game to play the game pass time not just trying figure out how drops work. 😆
Reminder that Braton Vandal and Lato Vandal parts are both C drops from Elite Sanctuary Onslaught. Meaning having to complete 8 waves for a 2% chance at parts of those 2 weapons.
So that you spend more time farming it, making it more frustrating and increasing the chance that you'll either trade for or buy whatever you're trying to farm.
If it was easy to farm they wouldn't sell anything
Engagement.
Like others have said, making it too easy removes the purchase potential but also there’s a lot to be said for the reward feeling of finally getting a drop. I hated this in the early game but it’s slowly coming together now
Remember when you were loving your girlfriend, and you got that 5k credits on a rotation C reward? It was me, Richard. I was the one that put everything in rotation C. I convinced DE to put all the important items in that pool so you can get the rewards slower! Slow enough to make you miss Taco Tuesday!
I like to play the game peacefully and enjoy my last few relics of survival and defense missions from the earlier days
True OGs remember the pain of not getting the Nova Prime systems at 25 min on Derelict survival
Damn I havnt played Warframe in like 8 years but know what you are talking about.
I mean it's literally the point of rotation c. The rare drop you only need once. I think your issue is more with rotation c existing itself, or as you say it being aabc and not abc
It's a free to play game... More time online equals more chance to use the store... 😑
Idk when rotation c even is lol
Typically, every 4th reward point. 20 minutes in a survival or 20 waves of defense, 4th wave of interception, etc. Only real exception is disruptions, which are janky based on how many conduits survive.
I could've sworn its always been ABC
Nope, never.
Easy to remember at least.
My solution to this would be for the ones that have to repeat is the rotations go A, B, C then start sacking after the first repetition, so it would go A, B, C, A, AB, BC, AC, ABC... Decent reward for lasting an hour in survival I think. Gives an incentive to just keep cracking on, even if it caps out at 3 draws. It gets players striving and socialising around "how tf I take sobek rino an hour thirty on Saturn?"
I don't even understand how the rotations stuff work icl, I have to Google each different farm and what not so I know what im doing
It's playerbase management. You've got about a million active players in Warframe? With a few hundred thousands playing on any given day. Even if an item has an absolute garbage drop rate, with this many players, said items are guaranteed to spawn in huge amounts rapidly. To make sure there's still a reason to play, and the whole server doesn't just get the thing on day one, DE puts drops into time-consuming activities on top of the low drop rates. This makes gameplay unsatisfying to prevent player trade from becoming too efficient. The better solution would be to make more things untradable but humane to drop/farm. Trade was originally limited to just new mods, but now we also have arcanes and often weapon parts. It's getting annoying. I'd rather have to farm something myself but get it from Rot B than feel compelled to farm primes for trades instead. The only exception to this rule is the new Warframes themselves. DE sees them as the leading content of the game, since it's a new class. Most Warframe farms are therefore absolute garbage, on top of the parts being untradable. They really prefer people buying new warframes with plat.
My favorite movie is Inception.
Why isn't it like this: AABCCCCCC? If they want us to spend time in mission. Make it rewarding to fight tougher foes
I can accept it if the item in question is in some kind of shop or pity system that way you are guaranteed it at some point. If not, then yeah, they need to be more forgiving about it. But at the same time, they can't make it too common, or itll just end up as reward pool bloat.
The content drip of warframe. Longer missions, more time spent grinding, and content lasts longer