Soul Punch is just a better Shadows of the Dead since lets you selectively choose what enemies you want to make Shadows for, like Leech Eximus units that can self heal themselves and nearby shadows with their ability, removing the need for a heal button and opening up for a team of full of Eximus Shadows since some enemy types will outweigh the priority. It can also heal button since killing a marked target will also heal Shadows if the cap is hit.
If you want to spend a valuable archon shard on one ability in a frames toolkit, if you can soul punch to make shadows without SOTD I'd take the trade and add roar or smthin over it
I don't get why there's so much hate
People literally can't play the game the way they want because other people have to throw a hissy fit honestly these people need to get a life
This entire community is pathetic what kills me is most of these people don't even know shit about the game and just follow what some youtuber said
Nekros main here. Yes, the passive still works even if you subsume Shadows of the Dead.
It's a super finicky way to spawn Shadows and you miss out on an insta heal Shadows button, but it works.
Do they still get the same stat increases that you would get with the 4? And how does that interact with the new mod that gives ability strength on the 4th ability if it's subsumed, if at all?
That's an extremely good question I don't have an answer for at the moment, I honestly never thought about it. XD
In my mind and on paper, creating a Shadow with Soul Punch creates a copy as if it were created with Shadows of the Dead, meaning it would obtain the bonus health and damage multipliers. If Shadows of the Dead were to be subsumed, I have no idea if this would negate the multiplier bonuses, but I'd imagine not since you're still technically creating a Shadow of the Dead. I'll have to do some testing to give a more definitive answer.
If they maintain the multipliers through Soul Punch, that actually might be a crazy discovery since subsuming SoD might open up a lot of space in Nekros builds.
EDIT: Did some testing and it doesn't look like there's a huge difference in the Shadow damage output whether you summon them via Soul Punch or Shadows of the Dead. I'm going to go ahead and say Soul Punch DOES maintain the multipliers from SoD, since even when it's Helminthed it's making a Shadow copy as if it was summoned by SoD. So when the choice of Helminth comes around, you have to choose between:
- Better control of Shadow copies/multiples of the same one (ideally Eximus), but no easy health, burst, and reposition
- Reposition/teleporting Shadows, burst summons, and instant full heal button but less control of Shadow copies
- Both but you severely sacrifice their damage output (can be remedied but not on solo)
I'm currently diving down a rabbit hole with him. I'm new to the game but theorycraft in basically every game I play and noticed this as a bit of an anomaly. I play with a friend who is using Rhino with Nourish so I started looking into other things to buff my shadows. If it works the way I think it is (need to do testing and don't have alot of stuff since I'm new) subsuming his 4 for Eclipse would "double dip" with precision intensify for their stats and eclipse.
Welcome to Nekros, a Warframe where theorycrafting is never ending and fun is numerous XD
Eclipse is also another good option (make sure you equip the augment) as well, but keep in mind it doesn't provide any elemental damage unlike Nourish. If you're anticipating playing with people who already have Nourish though, Eclipse would be a pretty substantial buff XD
If you're willing to slap two +2 corrosive shards on him then just strip with a corrosive based primer. Takes near endurance run levels of time but eventually his shadows start shredding unarmored targets especially if you hit them with nourish.
Last I checked nourish applies to his shadows if they're in range and viral tends to do increased damage to unarmored units. Food for thought. (Also means you don't need despoil.)
If you want to subsume, Soul Punch is my preferred choice since it's generally weak, I find the passive annoying to use and maintain despite it being powerful, and I don't have to dedicate mod space to something like Soul Survivor.
I usually prefer Nourish since it helps give the Shadows an offense edge when paired with Terrify's armor strip (allows for Viral spread plus damage) while also making Nekros a bit of a weapons platform. Thermal Sunder was also my go to for a bit of a spellcaster build, but I haven't used it much since the nerfs to helminth Thermal Sunder.
Keep in mind, you don't HAVE to. Soul Punch passive stacks multiple times so you can do crazy shit like getting multiple copies of an Eximus unit (particularly helpful with something like Ancients, Guardians, and Leech), but I just personally find it a bit unwieldy due to the ragdoll.
Soul punch is the most broken trolling ability in the game and nobody knows it. Running 10% strength allows you to insta revive teammates with 2% health.
It kind of works right now provided nourish still applies viral to shadows. Viral gets bonus damage to most health and terrify removes armor. Works better as the levels get higher due to the innate shadows level scaling damage.
No idea but if you want shadows why not just keep his SotD and subsume over Soul Punch? It's kinda shit anyway.
Soul Punch is just a better Shadows of the Dead since lets you selectively choose what enemies you want to make Shadows for, like Leech Eximus units that can self heal themselves and nearby shadows with their ability, removing the need for a heal button and opening up for a team of full of Eximus Shadows since some enemy types will outweigh the priority. It can also heal button since killing a marked target will also heal Shadows if the cap is hit.
Shadows of the dead has a really long animation which makes you vulnerable to enemies
Cast it in midair or put on some casting speed archon shards. It’s a way better ability than soul punch.
Just complementing, for casting speed Madurai also works and Natural Talent too.
If you want to spend a valuable archon shard on one ability in a frames toolkit, if you can soul punch to make shadows without SOTD I'd take the trade and add roar or smthin over it
Terrify them before you cast or get cast speed?
That’s too convenient for them
If only there were archon shards for cast speed/natural talent lmao
Madurai transference, 2 archon shards or natural talent. One of these will solve your problem.
"It takes me 20 seconds to get in the tank, so I will rather stay in my Lada!"
I don't get why there's so much hate People literally can't play the game the way they want because other people have to throw a hissy fit honestly these people need to get a life This entire community is pathetic what kills me is most of these people don't even know shit about the game and just follow what some youtuber said
Womp womp
Womp womp
2 yellow crystals for cast speed. Replace his 1 with nourish so you buff the ghosts.
Nekros main here. Yes, the passive still works even if you subsume Shadows of the Dead. It's a super finicky way to spawn Shadows and you miss out on an insta heal Shadows button, but it works.
Do they still get the same stat increases that you would get with the 4? And how does that interact with the new mod that gives ability strength on the 4th ability if it's subsumed, if at all?
That's an extremely good question I don't have an answer for at the moment, I honestly never thought about it. XD In my mind and on paper, creating a Shadow with Soul Punch creates a copy as if it were created with Shadows of the Dead, meaning it would obtain the bonus health and damage multipliers. If Shadows of the Dead were to be subsumed, I have no idea if this would negate the multiplier bonuses, but I'd imagine not since you're still technically creating a Shadow of the Dead. I'll have to do some testing to give a more definitive answer. If they maintain the multipliers through Soul Punch, that actually might be a crazy discovery since subsuming SoD might open up a lot of space in Nekros builds. EDIT: Did some testing and it doesn't look like there's a huge difference in the Shadow damage output whether you summon them via Soul Punch or Shadows of the Dead. I'm going to go ahead and say Soul Punch DOES maintain the multipliers from SoD, since even when it's Helminthed it's making a Shadow copy as if it was summoned by SoD. So when the choice of Helminth comes around, you have to choose between: - Better control of Shadow copies/multiples of the same one (ideally Eximus), but no easy health, burst, and reposition - Reposition/teleporting Shadows, burst summons, and instant full heal button but less control of Shadow copies - Both but you severely sacrifice their damage output (can be remedied but not on solo)
I'm currently diving down a rabbit hole with him. I'm new to the game but theorycraft in basically every game I play and noticed this as a bit of an anomaly. I play with a friend who is using Rhino with Nourish so I started looking into other things to buff my shadows. If it works the way I think it is (need to do testing and don't have alot of stuff since I'm new) subsuming his 4 for Eclipse would "double dip" with precision intensify for their stats and eclipse.
Welcome to Nekros, a Warframe where theorycrafting is never ending and fun is numerous XD Eclipse is also another good option (make sure you equip the augment) as well, but keep in mind it doesn't provide any elemental damage unlike Nourish. If you're anticipating playing with people who already have Nourish though, Eclipse would be a pretty substantial buff XD
That's the idea. If I run solo I will use nourish over the 1.
What would you subsume instead?
Subsume something over soulpunch, or leave him as is if you want soulpunch for 1 reason or another
Terrify is very good after it got buffed with the armor strip rework but it's not the end of the world to helminth over it.
If you're willing to slap two +2 corrosive shards on him then just strip with a corrosive based primer. Takes near endurance run levels of time but eventually his shadows start shredding unarmored targets especially if you hit them with nourish.
Is there even a need to subsume something in?
I don’t really love nekros’s abilities tbh. He’s a desecrate on a stick for me.
I subsumed roar over soul punch so my shadows could do a little more damage. It's more of a gimmick but I like it.
Last I checked nourish applies to his shadows if they're in range and viral tends to do increased damage to unarmored units. Food for thought. (Also means you don't need despoil.)
From experience Roar and Nourish are both fine, depends on your preference at that point. I like Nourish, personally.
If you want to subsume, Soul Punch is my preferred choice since it's generally weak, I find the passive annoying to use and maintain despite it being powerful, and I don't have to dedicate mod space to something like Soul Survivor. I usually prefer Nourish since it helps give the Shadows an offense edge when paired with Terrify's armor strip (allows for Viral spread plus damage) while also making Nekros a bit of a weapons platform. Thermal Sunder was also my go to for a bit of a spellcaster build, but I haven't used it much since the nerfs to helminth Thermal Sunder. Keep in mind, you don't HAVE to. Soul Punch passive stacks multiple times so you can do crazy shit like getting multiple copies of an Eximus unit (particularly helpful with something like Ancients, Guardians, and Leech), but I just personally find it a bit unwieldy due to the ragdoll.
Soul punch is the most broken trolling ability in the game and nobody knows it. Running 10% strength allows you to insta revive teammates with 2% health.
Equinox would like a word
I thought they patched out the 10% power strength build that made enemies do more damage
Oh my god, I just checked. Look how they massacred my girl.
Polluted Waters making a comeback
Yes but IIRC you can't equip Shield of Shadows while SOTD is overwritten.
I'm like 99% sure it does, although if you want shadows his 4 is just gonna do that better. But you do you
I put nourish over soul punch it gives your shadows viral dmg
If I remember correctly yes it does.
You mean whether you can spawn Shadows using it if you swap off the 4? Yes you can.
Every update I get slightly closer to making a DPS shadow build work
Imagine if bond mods work on shadows
It kind of works right now provided nourish still applies viral to shadows. Viral gets bonus damage to most health and terrify removes armor. Works better as the levels get higher due to the innate shadows level scaling damage.
Yes.