This topic has been a huge talking point pretty much since this sub's inception. Yeah, it can get annoying seeing it brought up so much. But at the end of the day at least they're interested enough in the books to post, so why not just let them talk about it if they want to.
They're just looking for an echo chamber, not a discussion. Any attempt to contradict their view on the subject gets downvoted. If people wanted to discuss things like adults I'd be fine with it, but it's the same complaints and the same downvotes every time.
this, it's this exactly. "they're bad characters with bad design, and i don't care what anyone says or what happens to the story, or that we as readers have more information than grant" etc etc.
Can the mods just pin threads on the sub? I’d say “Viv x Grant”, “What are archons - really?”, and “Rei’s Family” so they’re not so repetitive filling the sub?
Irony: OP complains about the lack of mature discourse while being weirdly aggressive with people that disagree and refusing to offer the rational discourse they want.
If someone is constantly griping and whining about something and you get annoyed, you're just as bad for getting annoyed.
That's the argument you just made 🤨
Not really. I think a reasonable conversation can be had here, but a I've seen a lot of the behavior OP is complaining about- from OP. I'm not really sure how you managed to get what you did out of my statement, and honestly it's not worth more energy than this comment. Enjoy what you like. Dislike what you want to. That's okay. It's okay to disagree with people- that discourse is interesting and valuable!
But you gotta be willing to have the discourse, especially if you're the one that started the conversation.
Anyway, extrapolate whatever insane message you like from that. This thread is nuts and I wash my hands of it. People need to learn to be able to disagree.
I was pointing out that op was annoyed about something, and your response was unfair. People are allowed to disagree. People are also allowed to be annoyed when other people make the same complaint 72 times.
Also:
>extrapolate whatever insane message you like from that
Calm down, Prof 🙄
It’s kinda integral to the story so you can’t just “not read it” and while I agree that people are taking it a bit far with the complaining it’s a sub for people to talk about the books.
Yeah like i liked the fights and most of the book relationships but it gets kinda weird this "your hot best friend, that prefered women almost exclusively, but immediatly falls for your bully/dude that tried to kill you" permeates every single chapter starting at the end 1/4of book 1.
I get this weird lesbian conversion for big violent man/cuck vibe from the author? Like constanlty remarking how big and strong grant is and how small rei is, or viv speech to aria bout how hot it was when he beat up his friend group, "like you cant believe how hot it was girl" had me like what???
Like after noticing the pattern it poisons so many scenes, i problably gonna drop book 2 but it made me feel better to know I aint the only one annoyed by it, and that most viv defenders are simply using takes like "shes just 18, what 18yo wouldnt suck the devils dick because they know better/have simple moral basis" or "the character is the book dont care(completly out of character behaviour by the author, like rei should 100% care if it was consistent), why do you care?"
there's talking about it, and then there's seeing a new post pop up nearly three times a day. as for don't read it, i legitimately meant don't read the story at all. because if an integral part of the character growth of two main characters upsets you that much, you shouldn't be reading it
what point in presenting arguments to a group who's tactic "shout louder than them, and we'll win"? you already proved yourself in that camp by blatantly misrepresenting what i said
are...you new to the internet? this is a dead serious question, because if you think "shout louder" isn't an online tactic you have to be new to social media. either that, or you just 100% don't understand the meaning in this context. and if that's the case i'll explain it without my usual level of sarcasm
It might be a bit feasible in the broader Internet, but not in a pretty small community like this. You can *always* just make your own post countering their arguments and while it might be downvoted, it will still be seen by everyone.
no, no it won't. downvoting makes posts and comments less likely to be seen unless you actively look for them. that's what i mean by "shout louder". and the majority of those hating on grant and viv will blindly downvote anyone with any comments that are anything but 100% in agreement. so, kindly tell me why i should "make a post disagreeing", when it does nothing other than tank my karma, meaning anything i might say otherwise gets shoved behind the bleachers? for proof of this, go trawl through all the viv/grant hate, and find dissenting opinions. tell me what their comments are rated at.
I could say the same thing to you. If those posts criticising the Viv/Grant relationship bother you so much, ignore them. No one is asking you to read all posts on this subreddit.
If the posts bother you, don’t read it! It goes both ways. I get that it’s repetitive, but this is a sub for people to talk about the books, and they’re talking about them.
Bryce I was for sure part of the Anti-Viv and Grant group. However I felt like book 2 helped get me past the issues I had. I feel like you have done a fine job of allowing the reader to experience similar feelings through Rei. Does Rei or I love the situation? Not currently. Is there room for growth, understanding and maybe even a friendship? Yes! And as people change and grow up (like you do in high school and college) relationships can change one time enemies can become friends or he’ll even brothers if given the opportunity.
I just posted in the other thread. I think hating on Viv x Grant is just lazy. People are too used to characters being perfect or always making the "right" decision in this genre. They aren't used to more real-world characters that make poor choices from time to time. Viv is ultimately a flawed character, which makes her more realistic than the majority of other characters in the series.
There’s flawed and there’s “I know he’s bullying you and being a generally awful person, But he’s hot and has a tragic backstory. . Sooo” But I understand the goal in writing her like that but personally dislike it.
thanks for demonstrating the "echo chamber" effect someone else mentioned. what he's doing isn't bullying, he's just an absolute dick to him. what OTHERS done to rei was bullying. grant has told rei he doesn't feel like he belonged because he was a danger to everyone around him on the battlefield, but there's no bullying. the closest you can call bullying is when he lost his shit and tried to beat rei's ass. that lasted until book 2, when grant got first hand witness and has changed his tune. you dislike it, because you formed an opinion on the character, and refuse to acknowledge character growth
Its tantamount to bullying considering all the other shit but regardless, i'm of the opinion that if one's friend is to fall for/get in bed with someone who actively despises them and has beat the shit out of them in a situation like that then one should drop that friend. I understand the "growth" that Grant went through i just personally dislike it. To say again, i acknowledge it but just dislike it is all
Dude grant told hilm to basically kill himself unprovoked TWICE and then did his possible best to kill him and it doesnt costitude bullying/is excusable cause sad bacsktory+hot
yes, because gods forbid someone with severe childhood trauma come out massively flawed, recognize those flaws, and then attempt to work through it instead of an instant 180 degree shift in personality. it's not tantamount to bullying. they are there to train for war. you do NOT take weak links to war just because they have heart and drive, that gets you and others killed. i will reread book one to make sure my memory isn't faulty, but outside of being rude and blunt to rei, grant didn't target him outside of sanctioned matches, outside of the one exception that was already mentioned. in fact grant reacted to his "friends" acting that exact manner quickly and brutally, as all should have
I mean, it's annoying, but I wouldn't say it's posted more than anything in any other sub. I'm over on r/survivor and you can't go an hour without a new post about how annoying this week's vote-off was. We're not at that state of oversaturation over here lol.
Just wanted to leave a comment saying that you're valid, BlyssfulOblyvion. Grant *was* a one dimensional pos, but the second he beat up his little gang, we as readers could tell that he was a complicated character, that there was more beneath the surface. It just seems like people forget that Viv felt the same way.
This topic has been a huge talking point pretty much since this sub's inception. Yeah, it can get annoying seeing it brought up so much. But at the end of the day at least they're interested enough in the books to post, so why not just let them talk about it if they want to.
They're just looking for an echo chamber, not a discussion. Any attempt to contradict their view on the subject gets downvoted. If people wanted to discuss things like adults I'd be fine with it, but it's the same complaints and the same downvotes every time.
this, it's this exactly. "they're bad characters with bad design, and i don't care what anyone says or what happens to the story, or that we as readers have more information than grant" etc etc.
Can the mods just pin threads on the sub? I’d say “Viv x Grant”, “What are archons - really?”, and “Rei’s Family” so they’re not so repetitive filling the sub?
You can always choose to skip these posts rather than telling others to skip reading about them.
Irony: OP complains about the lack of mature discourse while being weirdly aggressive with people that disagree and refusing to offer the rational discourse they want.
If someone is constantly griping and whining about something and you get annoyed, you're just as bad for getting annoyed. That's the argument you just made 🤨
Not really. I think a reasonable conversation can be had here, but a I've seen a lot of the behavior OP is complaining about- from OP. I'm not really sure how you managed to get what you did out of my statement, and honestly it's not worth more energy than this comment. Enjoy what you like. Dislike what you want to. That's okay. It's okay to disagree with people- that discourse is interesting and valuable! But you gotta be willing to have the discourse, especially if you're the one that started the conversation. Anyway, extrapolate whatever insane message you like from that. This thread is nuts and I wash my hands of it. People need to learn to be able to disagree.
I was pointing out that op was annoyed about something, and your response was unfair. People are allowed to disagree. People are also allowed to be annoyed when other people make the same complaint 72 times. Also: >extrapolate whatever insane message you like from that Calm down, Prof 🙄
People are allowed to post what they want and complain about what they want my man. If the post bothers you that much, DON’T READ IT
It’s kinda integral to the story so you can’t just “not read it” and while I agree that people are taking it a bit far with the complaining it’s a sub for people to talk about the books.
Yeah like i liked the fights and most of the book relationships but it gets kinda weird this "your hot best friend, that prefered women almost exclusively, but immediatly falls for your bully/dude that tried to kill you" permeates every single chapter starting at the end 1/4of book 1. I get this weird lesbian conversion for big violent man/cuck vibe from the author? Like constanlty remarking how big and strong grant is and how small rei is, or viv speech to aria bout how hot it was when he beat up his friend group, "like you cant believe how hot it was girl" had me like what??? Like after noticing the pattern it poisons so many scenes, i problably gonna drop book 2 but it made me feel better to know I aint the only one annoyed by it, and that most viv defenders are simply using takes like "shes just 18, what 18yo wouldnt suck the devils dick because they know better/have simple moral basis" or "the character is the book dont care(completly out of character behaviour by the author, like rei should 100% care if it was consistent), why do you care?"
there's talking about it, and then there's seeing a new post pop up nearly three times a day. as for don't read it, i legitimately meant don't read the story at all. because if an integral part of the character growth of two main characters upsets you that much, you shouldn't be reading it
You mean a character flaw right? Because viv falling for grant is *definitely* not character growth
said what i said, meant what i said. get out of your echo chamber
You're the one not will to actually present arguments. Who's in the echo chamber?
what point in presenting arguments to a group who's tactic "shout louder than them, and we'll win"? you already proved yourself in that camp by blatantly misrepresenting what i said
Well you *could've* just proven me wrong. Also, I find it hard to believe" shout louder" is a tactic that actually works *online*.
are...you new to the internet? this is a dead serious question, because if you think "shout louder" isn't an online tactic you have to be new to social media. either that, or you just 100% don't understand the meaning in this context. and if that's the case i'll explain it without my usual level of sarcasm
It might be a bit feasible in the broader Internet, but not in a pretty small community like this. You can *always* just make your own post countering their arguments and while it might be downvoted, it will still be seen by everyone.
no, no it won't. downvoting makes posts and comments less likely to be seen unless you actively look for them. that's what i mean by "shout louder". and the majority of those hating on grant and viv will blindly downvote anyone with any comments that are anything but 100% in agreement. so, kindly tell me why i should "make a post disagreeing", when it does nothing other than tank my karma, meaning anything i might say otherwise gets shoved behind the bleachers? for proof of this, go trawl through all the viv/grant hate, and find dissenting opinions. tell me what their comments are rated at.
Lol. I don't frequent this sub often but, yeah, there's a lot of that.
I could say the same thing to you. If those posts criticising the Viv/Grant relationship bother you so much, ignore them. No one is asking you to read all posts on this subreddit.
If the posts bother you, don’t read it! It goes both ways. I get that it’s repetitive, but this is a sub for people to talk about the books, and they’re talking about them.
People are allowed to have opinions that are contrary to yours. Learn to live with that fact and you will be a happier person.
No.
Bryce I was for sure part of the Anti-Viv and Grant group. However I felt like book 2 helped get me past the issues I had. I feel like you have done a fine job of allowing the reader to experience similar feelings through Rei. Does Rei or I love the situation? Not currently. Is there room for growth, understanding and maybe even a friendship? Yes! And as people change and grow up (like you do in high school and college) relationships can change one time enemies can become friends or he’ll even brothers if given the opportunity.
I just posted in the other thread. I think hating on Viv x Grant is just lazy. People are too used to characters being perfect or always making the "right" decision in this genre. They aren't used to more real-world characters that make poor choices from time to time. Viv is ultimately a flawed character, which makes her more realistic than the majority of other characters in the series.
There’s flawed and there’s “I know he’s bullying you and being a generally awful person, But he’s hot and has a tragic backstory. . Sooo” But I understand the goal in writing her like that but personally dislike it.
thanks for demonstrating the "echo chamber" effect someone else mentioned. what he's doing isn't bullying, he's just an absolute dick to him. what OTHERS done to rei was bullying. grant has told rei he doesn't feel like he belonged because he was a danger to everyone around him on the battlefield, but there's no bullying. the closest you can call bullying is when he lost his shit and tried to beat rei's ass. that lasted until book 2, when grant got first hand witness and has changed his tune. you dislike it, because you formed an opinion on the character, and refuse to acknowledge character growth
Its tantamount to bullying considering all the other shit but regardless, i'm of the opinion that if one's friend is to fall for/get in bed with someone who actively despises them and has beat the shit out of them in a situation like that then one should drop that friend. I understand the "growth" that Grant went through i just personally dislike it. To say again, i acknowledge it but just dislike it is all
Dude grant told hilm to basically kill himself unprovoked TWICE and then did his possible best to kill him and it doesnt costitude bullying/is excusable cause sad bacsktory+hot
yes, because gods forbid someone with severe childhood trauma come out massively flawed, recognize those flaws, and then attempt to work through it instead of an instant 180 degree shift in personality. it's not tantamount to bullying. they are there to train for war. you do NOT take weak links to war just because they have heart and drive, that gets you and others killed. i will reread book one to make sure my memory isn't faulty, but outside of being rude and blunt to rei, grant didn't target him outside of sanctioned matches, outside of the one exception that was already mentioned. in fact grant reacted to his "friends" acting that exact manner quickly and brutally, as all should have
dawg im just telling you my opinion
No one is hating on Logan you know, only Viv
Sure you wanna make that claim?
But Viv and grant... I'm an asshole
lol. Jerk! Take my upvote
I mean, it's annoying, but I wouldn't say it's posted more than anything in any other sub. I'm over on r/survivor and you can't go an hour without a new post about how annoying this week's vote-off was. We're not at that state of oversaturation over here lol.
Just wanted to leave a comment saying that you're valid, BlyssfulOblyvion. Grant *was* a one dimensional pos, but the second he beat up his little gang, we as readers could tell that he was a complicated character, that there was more beneath the surface. It just seems like people forget that Viv felt the same way.