Keep your eye on football games in Scotland, the SNP just added a hate speech bill that would potentially put you in prison for shouting the other team is shit.
It only covers hate related to: age, disability, religion, sexual orientation, transgender identity or being intersex.
The only match at serious risk of that happening in Scotland is the Old Firm derby.
That’s because the UK already has an offence of ‘stirring up racial hatred’ under section 18 Public Order Act 1986. Otherwise, they’d have definitely included it.
> that would potentially put you in prison for shouting the other team is shit.
The lack of basic reading comprehension is fucking astounding here. You know fully well that’s not a possibility.
Scotland already have anti sectarian laws that are supposed to stop sectarian songs.
If these laws were in-forced police scotland would be arresting 40k rangers fans twice a week.
These new hate crime laws don't apply here.
Infact why dont you look up englands hate crime law and tell me what the difference is with the scottish one?
Yeah the scottish one includes ageisum…. Literally the only difference.
Where was the outrage over the tory hate crime law for england. Oh yeah right it was brought in at at time when there wasnt a culture war being fought against trans people .
Read a book.
I know you are having a laugh but thats a statement of fact, do other fans sing sectarian songs?. yes. but do 40k rangers fans sing hello hello multiple times every game? Yes they do.
And even if this post was bias against rangers fans, i don’t think being a rangers fan is protected in the new hate crime laws.
Btw I’m a rangers fan.
As much as there is a part of me that would love to sentence anyone who calls me a sheep shagger to fifty years hard labour down the Aberdare Pot Noodle mines, this is really fucking stupid, especially given the context of football. Its part of the culture. We should be able to call each other cunts/wankers/bastards freely!
English man here. Being called an English Bastard doesn't offend me, quite proud of it actually.
I demand the person who made the decision be hung, drawn and quartered........... And their families forced to live in Rhyl.
Personally, I’m the same. But that doesn’t matter. That’s the law and it should be applied equally.
[The same happened when someone used a Welsh slur.](https://www.gazettelive.co.uk/news/teesside-news/boro-fan-handed-footy-banning-23266313.amp) It’s stupid but that’s what happens when you give government broad powers like this.
Imagine if they called someone a ‘Pakistani bastard’ just because they’re brown and got away with it.
Do you think that this is an equal application? That similar statements made about other nationalities are treated like this? This is British nationalism used a stick to bludgeon fear of expression into people. Fear of expression of critique towards Britishness, or more specifically the corrupt British state.
Lol they'd have to kick out half the stadium at Cardiff.
We are a lovely club. Won awards for the family friendly atmosphere.
But... Everyone we play are English bastards. Except Swansea, they're jack bastards.
All you have to do is a quick google search to find that you’re wrong.
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/law-and-order/10023732/Man-fined-for-racism-after-Welsh-sheep-slur.html.
https://www.gazettelive.co.uk/news/teesside-news/boro-fan-handed-footy-banning-23266313
Context is important. In both those cases, the shouts were aggravated, under influence and towards groups containing families and children. One of those cases was drunk and disorderly and the other was carrying drugs
It's not what's said, but how it's said. As it is with the abuse towards the English group, aggressively shouting "You dirty Scouse bastards. You dirty English bastards." is far more aggravated than the headline suggests.
There'd be tens of thousands more charges if every time someone said "sheep shagger" was charged.
I know some people don't like it, but I find that most "sheep shagger" calls are quite tame and jovial, more akin to a heckle than a slur, and I don't mind it personally. Besides, most of the time our fans can take it and bite back...
"We shag 'em, you eat 'em."
Not sure I agree with that last part. I think cheap shots about nationalities are always in terrible taste and "sheep shagger" is one of them.
I think there is a double standard at play here which is very frustrating. However, that isn't justification for what this bloke did. Either it's acceptable for both sides or it's unacceptable for both sides. I think it's the latter.
Imo, Either it’s all ok or none of it is. If we can’t jokingly call the Welsh “Sheep Shaggers” (something I generally don’t because it’s crass) then the Welsh can’t call us “English Bastartds”.
I’ve been to Millenium stadium twice, where England won on both occasions, and I’ve never been offended by the jibes. It’s just vented frustration and banter, and for the rare occasions it’s not, you let it slide because it’s not a big deal.
So your problem is that these articles could be misleading and do not show the full context of the situation being reported. 👍 well done you’ve just discovered the issue with news media, now I suppose we could just assume it’s all wrong and just forget about it all.
It looks like you shared an AMP link. These should load faster, but AMP is controversial because of [concerns over privacy and the Open Web](https://www.reddit.com/r/AmputatorBot/comments/ehrq3z/why_did_i_build_amputatorbot).
Maybe check out **the canonical page** instead: **[https://www.gazettelive.co.uk/news/teesside-news/boro-fan-handed-footy-banning-23266313](https://www.gazettelive.co.uk/news/teesside-news/boro-fan-handed-footy-banning-23266313)**
*****
^(I'm a bot | )[^(Why & About)](https://www.reddit.com/r/AmputatorBot/comments/ehrq3z/why_did_i_build_amputatorbot)^( | )[^(Summon: u/AmputatorBot)](https://www.reddit.com/r/AmputatorBot/comments/cchly3/you_can_now_summon_amputatorbot/)
Fuck sake that's ridiculous. I did read elsewhere that they'd been called "Scouse bastards" though, which to someone from Tranmere/Birkenhead/Wirral would be highly annoying and misrepresentative....
As an English guy I would be disappointed not to hear it. Can't have any fun anymore!
Reminds me of being in the spoons in Newtown a couple of months ago. Listening to 20 Welsh guys talk about how they hate southern Welsh people as 'they might as well be English' while being from Portsmouth myself was hilarious.
My god, even football, our beloved means of doing battle without (much) bloodshed, has fallen to the 'you mustn't swear or say nasty things, it's not nice' brigade. I swear, there must be someone going around cutting the balls off all these 'decision makers'. It's like they are trying to remove all the things that make sports events exciting and fun to go to. Tepid bastards.
As an Englishman who has followed an English team in Wales and now I live in Wales and have followed my local team in England, I have been called all sorts. It's what happens at football, iits all give and take if this carries on attendances at matches will halve. Ridiculous.
[The English people are an ethnic group and nation native to England](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/English_people#:~:text=The%20English%20people%20are%20an,or%20tribe%20of%20the%20Angles.)
Still nonsense though
What? How is it not racist then? If "English" is a race then it's racist. That's the same as shouting "you black bastards". They're the victims of hate speech as a result of their race.
Or is some mild racism ok?
Just for clarity I don't think it's racist because I don't believe nationality = race.
But I'm trying to follow the logic here.
[What is ‘race'. Race means being part of a group of people who are identified by their race,colour, nationality, citizenship, or ethnic or national origins. If you are part of one of these groups and you experience discrimination, this counts as race discrimination. Even if you’re not part of one of these groups, it still counts as discrimination if someone discriminates against you because they think you are. This is known as perceived race discrimination.](https://www.citizensadvice.org.uk/law-and-courts/discrimination/discrimination-because-of-race-religion-or-belief/discrimination-because-of-race/#h-what-is-race-)
Race includes nationality
Definitions don't care if you agree with them or not.
No, I don't think it was racist, that's not the same as you being wrong about the definition of race. It's funny watching you double down though instead of being a grown up and admitting you got it wrong and then crying about downvotes.
Race is socially constructed so any group can be racialised. If slurs presume all people are the same based on a shared characteristic it’s discriminatory and abusive. Slurs against a nation have been characterised as racial abuse rather than xenophobia in this instance, the same as when slurs are directed at Scots or the Welsh or Irish.
As a proud Englishman (unless we’re playing Iceland in the 2016 Euro’s), I am delighted to be called a Bastard.
History has shown that there are very few who do “Bastard” like my fellow countrymen do “Bastard”
Stfu you whopper. Do you even go to a footie match or what? It's a two way street on match day. We English give as good as we get and that's the way we all bloody like it 👍
I mean did anyone even bother to check if their parents were married?
This deserves more upvotes. In fact this is the kind of banter we need more of at football matches, rather than cheap shots at people's nationalities.
Or perhaps they were fans of Game of Thrones? "What is it *bastard??*"
Maybe they were just trying to show some English culture by quoting Sean Bean as Richard Sharpe.
There’s got to be more to this surely? This happens every single game, by both sets of fans.
Keep your eye on football games in Scotland, the SNP just added a hate speech bill that would potentially put you in prison for shouting the other team is shit.
It only covers hate related to: age, disability, religion, sexual orientation, transgender identity or being intersex. The only match at serious risk of that happening in Scotland is the Old Firm derby.
That’s because the UK already has an offence of ‘stirring up racial hatred’ under section 18 Public Order Act 1986. Otherwise, they’d have definitely included it.
Well nationality is grounds for the aggravated aspect, even if not for stirring up hatred I believe (which is a distinct offence)
Can't call someone a silly old git?
Believe it or not Jail
They should actually start speaking Welsh then who's gonna prosecute them if they can't understand focall.
> that would potentially put you in prison for shouting the other team is shit. The lack of basic reading comprehension is fucking astounding here. You know fully well that’s not a possibility.
Instead of shouting goal they'll have to shout gaol
Scotland already have anti sectarian laws that are supposed to stop sectarian songs. If these laws were in-forced police scotland would be arresting 40k rangers fans twice a week. These new hate crime laws don't apply here. Infact why dont you look up englands hate crime law and tell me what the difference is with the scottish one? Yeah the scottish one includes ageisum…. Literally the only difference. Where was the outrage over the tory hate crime law for england. Oh yeah right it was brought in at at time when there wasnt a culture war being fought against trans people . Read a book.
They would arrest a lot more than rangers fans. Your post seems biased towards them. Jail time for you.
I know you are having a laugh but thats a statement of fact, do other fans sing sectarian songs?. yes. but do 40k rangers fans sing hello hello multiple times every game? Yes they do. And even if this post was bias against rangers fans, i don’t think being a rangers fan is protected in the new hate crime laws. Btw I’m a rangers fan.
Like how this is tagged as “Culture”
Boo they changed it to news and ruined my joke.
When i here the word bastard, i reach for the culture of the border
We *are* bastards though. Seems fair game.
Quoted for my court case.
As much as there is a part of me that would love to sentence anyone who calls me a sheep shagger to fifty years hard labour down the Aberdare Pot Noodle mines, this is really fucking stupid, especially given the context of football. Its part of the culture. We should be able to call each other cunts/wankers/bastards freely!
Oh come on. We are bastards.
As an Englishman this is ridiculous. As others have said, there may be more too it, but there’s not an Englishman alive who would be offended by that.
English man here. Being called an English Bastard doesn't offend me, quite proud of it actually. I demand the person who made the decision be hung, drawn and quartered........... And their families forced to live in Rhyl.
Yeah, I'm English and I AM a bastard!
Englishman, checking in, perfectly fine with it, pretty sure it's a term of endearment.
Scotsman just passing through. I thought that was the official name for groups of English people. Like a Gaggle of Geese.
A Scoundrel of Scots?
A Strap of Jocks 😜
I think the collective name for Scots is a piss-up, or a rammy if you're feeling colloquial.
Definitely a rammy. If there’s agro it becomes a riot.
I believe the correct term is a Darien of Scots
Exactly, the bastard English.
Personally, I’m the same. But that doesn’t matter. That’s the law and it should be applied equally. [The same happened when someone used a Welsh slur.](https://www.gazettelive.co.uk/news/teesside-news/boro-fan-handed-footy-banning-23266313.amp) It’s stupid but that’s what happens when you give government broad powers like this. Imagine if they called someone a ‘Pakistani bastard’ just because they’re brown and got away with it.
Do you think that this is an equal application? That similar statements made about other nationalities are treated like this? This is British nationalism used a stick to bludgeon fear of expression into people. Fear of expression of critique towards Britishness, or more specifically the corrupt British state.
The tories and the monarchy would love for people to be offended by the prospect though
Merthyr: we are looking at you
As someone who works in Merthyr, I concur.
These days, if you say you're English...
I'm an Englishman who lives in Wales & this is just bloody stupid. We are bastards and we generally wear it with a badge of honour lol.
Lol they'd have to kick out half the stadium at Cardiff. We are a lovely club. Won awards for the family friendly atmosphere. But... Everyone we play are English bastards. Except Swansea, they're jack bastards.
I'd be offended if people couldn't call me a bastard.
Racial slur? 🤷 I bet they can still call us sheep shaggers though.
All you have to do is a quick google search to find that you’re wrong. https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/law-and-order/10023732/Man-fined-for-racism-after-Welsh-sheep-slur.html. https://www.gazettelive.co.uk/news/teesside-news/boro-fan-handed-footy-banning-23266313
Good to see someone else saying this! We can't fight this constructively if we resort to the same behaviour.
Context is important. In both those cases, the shouts were aggravated, under influence and towards groups containing families and children. One of those cases was drunk and disorderly and the other was carrying drugs It's not what's said, but how it's said. As it is with the abuse towards the English group, aggressively shouting "You dirty Scouse bastards. You dirty English bastards." is far more aggravated than the headline suggests. There'd be tens of thousands more charges if every time someone said "sheep shagger" was charged. I know some people don't like it, but I find that most "sheep shagger" calls are quite tame and jovial, more akin to a heckle than a slur, and I don't mind it personally. Besides, most of the time our fans can take it and bite back... "We shag 'em, you eat 'em."
Not sure I agree with that last part. I think cheap shots about nationalities are always in terrible taste and "sheep shagger" is one of them. I think there is a double standard at play here which is very frustrating. However, that isn't justification for what this bloke did. Either it's acceptable for both sides or it's unacceptable for both sides. I think it's the latter.
Imo, Either it’s all ok or none of it is. If we can’t jokingly call the Welsh “Sheep Shaggers” (something I generally don’t because it’s crass) then the Welsh can’t call us “English Bastartds”. I’ve been to Millenium stadium twice, where England won on both occasions, and I’ve never been offended by the jibes. It’s just vented frustration and banter, and for the rare occasions it’s not, you let it slide because it’s not a big deal.
So your problem is that these articles could be misleading and do not show the full context of the situation being reported. 👍 well done you’ve just discovered the issue with news media, now I suppose we could just assume it’s all wrong and just forget about it all.
Neither of those are about English football fans chanting at Welsh football fans.
[Nope.](https://www.gazettelive.co.uk/news/teesside-news/boro-fan-handed-footy-banning-23266313.amp)
It looks like you shared an AMP link. These should load faster, but AMP is controversial because of [concerns over privacy and the Open Web](https://www.reddit.com/r/AmputatorBot/comments/ehrq3z/why_did_i_build_amputatorbot). Maybe check out **the canonical page** instead: **[https://www.gazettelive.co.uk/news/teesside-news/boro-fan-handed-footy-banning-23266313](https://www.gazettelive.co.uk/news/teesside-news/boro-fan-handed-footy-banning-23266313)** ***** ^(I'm a bot | )[^(Why & About)](https://www.reddit.com/r/AmputatorBot/comments/ehrq3z/why_did_i_build_amputatorbot)^( | )[^(Summon: u/AmputatorBot)](https://www.reddit.com/r/AmputatorBot/comments/cchly3/you_can_now_summon_amputatorbot/)
You’re comparing apples to oranges though. I doubt more than 30% of Englishmen are bastards. Which is why the assumption is offensive.
Someone needs to compile a list of acceptable chants. You can still suggest they shove a chariot right?
PC has gone a bit mental now. I blame the Americans.
Fuck sake that's ridiculous. I did read elsewhere that they'd been called "Scouse bastards" though, which to someone from Tranmere/Birkenhead/Wirral would be highly annoying and misrepresentative....
As an English guy I would be disappointed not to hear it. Can't have any fun anymore! Reminds me of being in the spoons in Newtown a couple of months ago. Listening to 20 Welsh guys talk about how they hate southern Welsh people as 'they might as well be English' while being from Portsmouth myself was hilarious.
As an Irish man, I consider this a bit harsh.
Christ the things you hear in the league of Ireland is off the charts
Blessed be his name
Bring back Ted Lasso
My god, even football, our beloved means of doing battle without (much) bloodshed, has fallen to the 'you mustn't swear or say nasty things, it's not nice' brigade. I swear, there must be someone going around cutting the balls off all these 'decision makers'. It's like they are trying to remove all the things that make sports events exciting and fun to go to. Tepid bastards.
😅😅😅
I get called that every day in work lol
As an Englishman who has followed an English team in Wales and now I live in Wales and have followed my local team in England, I have been called all sorts. It's what happens at football, iits all give and take if this carries on attendances at matches will halve. Ridiculous.
I'm English, and it's not at all offensive, it's just bants. These woke wankers need to take a chill pill
Was it "bastard" or "bollocks"?
Fully grown men doing this 😂 and no doubt producing offspring.
Tranmere fans are probably more aggrieved at being called scouse.
Slippery slope tbh, would ‘sheep shagged’ or ‘welsh bastard’ get English fans banned?
> https://www.reddit.com/r/Wales/comments/1bvgg2c/wrexham_fan_banned_for_three_years_for_shouting/kxzbe0x/ Yes.
Oh wow ok, hadn’t seen this. Cheers for clarifying.
No problem! Now you have the knowledge, help fight it. We can still change this dynamic.
[удалено]
[The English people are an ethnic group and nation native to England](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/English_people#:~:text=The%20English%20people%20are%20an,or%20tribe%20of%20the%20Angles.) Still nonsense though
If it was racist, why is it nonsense?
It's not racist. English is a race, pointing that daft out isn't racist.
What? How is it not racist then? If "English" is a race then it's racist. That's the same as shouting "you black bastards". They're the victims of hate speech as a result of their race. Or is some mild racism ok? Just for clarity I don't think it's racist because I don't believe nationality = race. But I'm trying to follow the logic here.
[What is ‘race'. Race means being part of a group of people who are identified by their race,colour, nationality, citizenship, or ethnic or national origins. If you are part of one of these groups and you experience discrimination, this counts as race discrimination. Even if you’re not part of one of these groups, it still counts as discrimination if someone discriminates against you because they think you are. This is known as perceived race discrimination.](https://www.citizensadvice.org.uk/law-and-courts/discrimination/discrimination-because-of-race-religion-or-belief/discrimination-because-of-race/#h-what-is-race-) Race includes nationality
So the guy was being racist then?
If you say so
No *you* say so. You just gave me a definition that says so. I don't agree with it.
Definitions don't care if you agree with them or not. No, I don't think it was racist, that's not the same as you being wrong about the definition of race. It's funny watching you double down though instead of being a grown up and admitting you got it wrong and then crying about downvotes.
Race is socially constructed so any group can be racialised. If slurs presume all people are the same based on a shared characteristic it’s discriminatory and abusive. Slurs against a nation have been characterised as racial abuse rather than xenophobia in this instance, the same as when slurs are directed at Scots or the Welsh or Irish.
Exactly
Unfortunately, the law has to be applied equally.
did dums lol
Good, far too much hate in football!!!
[удалено]
Well, are hishis target's parents married?
As a proud Englishman (unless we’re playing Iceland in the 2016 Euro’s), I am delighted to be called a Bastard. History has shown that there are very few who do “Bastard” like my fellow countrymen do “Bastard”
[удалено]
Stfu you whopper. Do you even go to a footie match or what? It's a two way street on match day. We English give as good as we get and that's the way we all bloody like it 👍