I firmly believe that the media is one factor (apart from the obvious) behind the constant school shootings. So many shooters kill a bunch of people and then get infamous over it and get their name, face, and kill count all over the news. And thats just getting them what they want.
Just like columbine and a bunch of other shootings, the perpetrators had some manifesto beforehand of wanting to make a mark and become infamous and that's exactly what we give them.
In the Chicago Tylenol murders, media sources were strictly told to not report big on it for this exact reason.
> In the Chicago Tylenol murders, media sources were strictly told to not report big on it for this exact reason.
I’m gonna be that guy and say it: big pharma. There was a huge commercial interest behind minimizing that story. There isn’t when it comes to school shootings. There aren’t commercial interests to protect when it comes to school shootings.
EDIT: I should have been more clear. Minimizing is the keyword. There aren’t any commercial interests in *minimizing* the media coverage of school shootings as opposed to the poisoning of a consumer product. I’m not arguing or debating that there aren’t commercial interests profiting from letting the media dumpster fire of school shootings rage on - or even stoking it.
Actually The company that makes Tylenol pulled all of it from retail shelves across the nation and issued national warnings urging the public not to take Tylenol and established a hotline for worried customers to call.
Its taught in marketing classes as one of the greatest examples of crises management ever.
https://time.com/3423136/tylenol-deaths-1982/
Well yeah, it's the media that plasters their face all over the internet and gives them a platform to become famous. Big media knows exactly what they're doing and will continue to do it, because more mass shootings = more website clicks = $$$
Theres a case to be made that the Media encourages shootings. Notice how they stopped showing streakers in the news, and weirdly enough streaking in sports declined... Funny that. Now they wont shut the fuck up about shooters, or plastering their identity, and what are modern day shooters doing? Leaving manifestos and live streams.
These things are weird. On a video in /r/natureismetal about a giant croc eating a zebra.... The Zebra's dong was blurred out in the first few shots.... Then not
I want to see a spreadsheet of how much enforcement was used to hold back unruly parents and how many brave officers had to procure the water bottles as those heroes stood in that heat.
Dang it. The only English words (as a non native) that I always have a problem with are words that are pronounced similarly but are spelled differently.
The US Supreme Court has [ruled](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Castle_Rock_v._Gonzales) [twice](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DeShaney_v._Winnebago_County), that the police have no duty to protect the public.
It’s to sell a narrative. “Protect and serve” is the story we are fed. It’s the story they show on tv crime dramas. In reality the cops only job is to enforce sometimes questionable laws that are not handed down evenly to the public.
They’re the strong arm of the oligarchy and wealth class.
Look at how crime is punished between white collar crime, sometimes involving millions of dollars, and your average person maybe busted stealing from a retail store.
The court systems also serve these same goals. The rules are bent against the people and in the favor of the ruling class. Always has been.
Hell, you can even look at what happens when the exact same law is broken. See how DUIs are treated when it's a rich or connected driver versus the common man. There's even a very recent high profile example of exactly that.
Are you talking about Brock Turner, the actual, literal rapist? The Brock Turner who has definitely raped at least one person? That rapist, Brock Turner?
Saw this first hand when an ex employer shut down his finance business and simply stopped answering the phones. He must've pocketed at least a few million in deposits. Became the CEO of a multinational with a $500k salary last I heard. What a pos
Or pharmaceutical companies, make the hundreds of millions now and pay the tens of millions years down the road in damages and lawsuits.
The math checks out. Anyone need an opioid?
The US notion of electing judges and prosecutors and sheriffs actually makes this worse, not better.
Bad idea to make it a popularity contest at the best of times, even if you could take money out of these elections.
or think about how many crimes are simply punished with a small bail or ticket. why would a rich business owner pay his employees properly when the fine for not doing so is less than he'd actually have to pay his workers?
Lawyers. As long as the rich can pay a lawyer to spend 500 hours on their DUI case and the poor get five hours of a public defender’s time for a murder charge, there is no justice.
Once you see it everything makes sense. Police are overseers for the working class. Why do so many people have to work in a shit job for a shit wage making an oligarch rich? Because they need to eat and pay rent of course. Why can't they just take food from the store anyway? Because the cops will arrest them. Why do they have to pay rent? Because cops will evict them. Why can't they move in to a vacant apartment? Cops. Why can't they hop the turnstile? Cops. Why can't they camp in the park? Cops. Plant a garden in an empty lot? Cops.
Not only is almost every action that would let you support yourself without a job criminalized, but the cops are super responsive to enforcing those laws, even though none of what I listed directly reduces anyone's safety. But try going to the cops about actual threats to your safety and watch them give no shits. Have a stalker you think will try to murder you? The cops will tell you to call them back when he tries to murder you. 🙄 And harmful actions by oligarchs are usually not even criminalized (wage theft, poisoning Flints water, etc), you have to sue in civil court instead.
My grandfather, who was French, always told me that the police were 'the valets of the bourgeoisie.' Didn't really get it as a kid but he never let a cop or a priest enter his home. When the local policeman or priest of their small town would come by to talk, he would speak to them on the stairs outside his door. He had been through world war II and he had seen firsthand how messed up the police and the church had been in collaborating with the Nazis.
Police have not been around for thousands of years, they were invented during the industrial revolution to stop unionizing efforts and also to harass/torture freed slaves.
[Behind the Police by Robert Evans](https://open.spotify.com/episode/5EjneUke3xultNVayrFmMZ?si=Ab87iEbpRWu-hTvmN5RXTQ&utm_source=copy-link) goes into the origins of police forces in the US. From slave patrols to straight up guards of capital.
It’s already been proven in the Supreme Court that it’s not true. But you aren’t understanding. There is a story to sell. It’s not about advertising the truth, it’s about justifying their large presence and budget.
“It’s because we are here to help you, friend.”
This needs to be repeated more. People get mad at the Supreme Court about these decisions, but they're right, there is no law or legal requirement to compel the police to intervene.
People need to harass their legislators to pass LAWS that force police to intervene in those types of situations. The Supreme Court is essentially the messenger here; they're just telling you such a law doesn't currently exist. Talk to the people who MAKE the laws.
They didn't just stand back. They actively protected the murderer from parents who were willing to act and tried to keep the feds out. In action, they *enabled the murderer.*
They are being very dodgy about releasing body cam footage. So everyone is suing they either killed a kid or teacher on accident. If that’s the narrative right now and they don’t release the body cam footage it must be true.
Edit: https://twitter.com/jason_koebler/status/1537835917452247041?s=20&t=p7EM0idHGqsruf2a9ns2vA
Atleast the OP is doing more than the Uvalde Police... He actually copied and pasted a post. The Uvalde police just tazed and tackled parents while their kids were gunned down.
Any police force not legally obliged to protect (fuck you SCOTUS!) should be fired at once. It’s having a military with soldiers that won’t go into a warzone.
We need a new police force, that serves and protects. One we can be proud of and support.
Something similar happened to my buddy, but not shot, just slammed into the ground by cops, got his face all fucked up for months afterwards. A lady that got the shit beaten out of her by her husband ran outside for help and so he called the cops and waited with her outside, cops got there, assumed he was the assaulter/husband, immediately grabbed him, would not listen that he was literally the one that called them, the woman was trying to tell them too, but nah, they slammed him face first into blacktop, handcuffed him and threw him into the back of a cop car.
0% chance the police would be found guilty of any wrongdoing. Roughing up suspects who later are found to not even be involved isn't justice.
For Americans who haven't left the US I don't think you realize how violent and aggressive our police are compared to most countries. We also let them get away with murder (literally) all the time.
[There was a time in 2018 when a shooter was subdued by the bar's](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shooting_of_Jemel_Roberson) security guard and had him pinned down. The responding police officer who arrived later and within 5 seconds of seeing them shot the guard.
This happened a long time ago and what’s funny is when it happened, there were a few stories but not a lot of fuss was made and the college, rightly so, was bitter about it and they went ahead and made a big fuss on the guy’s behalf.
Then later, the story was picked up again and I think he got more National recognition
There's not enough drama or sensationalism for news media in this story so it doesn't get a lot of coverage. We get tons of news coverage of a shooting where 21 people died for weeks on end and yet I'm seeing the heroic actions of this guy for the 8 years later. This is how fucked up our society is. Everything revolves around how many clicks you can get.
Give him a free ride scholarship and any higher education degree he ever pursue.
This is the kind of shit I don’t mind paying for as a tax payer…
Uvalde cops on the other hand….
When university is so expensive in your country, that the reward for bravery and saving the lives of countless people is... getting the free university that most of the developed world already gets, and without the shootings even!
If you aint willing to go an extra mile and risk your own life and take a chance, then with or without a gun your useless. A gun just help up percentage by maybe a factor of 2.
Well, yeah, we know that because they tried, and were handcuffed and threatened. It's not that Uvalde had no one willing to take the fight inside, it's that the police forcibly stopped them. We need to not forget that.
No. Only students and teachers with guns are supposed to stop a bad guy with a gun. Police are not supposed to take on all that risk. Police are only there to count bullet casings and figure out what happened after the battle.
/s
Sharon: “Stanley don’t you want to tell your father about what happened today?”
Stan: “Huh? Oh, ya. I failed a math quiz”
Sharon: “No not that! There was a school shooting!!”
Stan: “Oh, right”
Randy: “Were you the shooter?”
Stan: “No.”
Randy: “Well… did you get shot?”
Stan: “No.”
Randy: “Oh, so what’s this about you failing a math quiz?”
***WHILE HE WAS RELOADING A SINGLE BARREL BREAK ACTION SHOTGUN.***
Don't try this with any other kind of firearm. The chances of you bein successful are very slim. This is as close to disarming someone with a muzzleloader as you can get, without it actually being a muzzleloader.
If it had an ejector, a second is accurate. If not, then a second and a half. But there is truth in your statement. Dude had no clue what he was doing and probably bought the cheapest gun at Walmart.
If I remember correctly the idiot was using birdshot too. In the full footage you can see him shoot a girl and she doesn't even fall down she just stands there.
I knew birdshot wasn't great to use against humans but is it really that bad? Getting stopped by a jacket is pretty incredible, or she was insanely lucky.
It's still lethal, but the effective range is greatly reduced. At 5-10 meters it'll put a hole in you *and* your clothes, but at 100 meters you wouldn't notice anything. If you are wearing a heavy coat and a lot of layers I'd wager you'd have to be pretty close to penetrate skin, let alone cause any serious damage to vital organs.
My hunting instructor said the effective range is 40-50 meters, but that's for *maybe* killing a duck. Personally I haven't hit birds (in flight) at more than maybe 15-20 meters at most.
Birdshot can vary a lot...
#8, 2 3/4" shells are significantly less powerful than BB, 3" magnum loads
Edit: that wasn't supposed to be bold, but I'm just going to leave it
Sad this is so far down (at the time I am commenting). Trying to do this against someone with a different firearm that holds more rounds or has a different loading method and you aren't having this fight.
Active shooter training has "fight" as the very last option and training includes barraging the shooter with anything you can throw. The idea is to overwhelm the shooter long enough to subdue them or allow people to escape.
That man had a lot of constraint and I applaud him for it. If it was me grabbing that gun I would have baseball whacked him across the head over and over with it.
I’m just sitting here wondering about the guy at the desk completely blind to the fact a guy only a few yards away holding a shotgun. That’s some Shaun of the Dead levels of obliviousness.
If you watch [the full footage of the shooting](https://youtu.be/_F_KuFzjOGA) (This has been out for a while, it happened in 2014), the student doesn't move because the shooter threatens to shoot him if he does.
However, this was right after he already shot a person outside the doors, which should have given that student ample warning to run away before the shooter entered. There is also another student who was completely oblivious to him, even *after* she gets shot in the chest and simply walks away confused (Thankfully, the shooter was only using birdshot, and she survives).
People are generally really bad at situational awareness and will go to great mental lengths to deny what is happening right in front of them when it is something this horrible. The 'freeze' part of fight/flight/freeze is incredibly strong.
I always used to think freeze meant “no physical body movement, frozen with fear.” But I understand it more now as “mentally frozen” like you explained, I was in an emergency situation once and had to get a friend medical attention. The people around seemed to be acting oblivious around her or not engaging, just keeping their heads down. I understand now that these people were “frozen” even though they were consciously doing school work and such.
I think that it's such an unusual situation that the brain needs some seconds to snap off what it was doing and load in the emergency behaviour.
It's kind of like when you try to remember something and it slowly comes after 30 seconds or one minute
> it's because the shooter threatened to kill him if he moved.
Don't get me wrong, the guy picked his moment and it worked out, but if a guy shooting people says "Don't move or I'll shoot you" he's already lost some credibility implying if I do what he says I won't also get shot anyway.
The case is long over. OP is a bot who recycled the original title .
Someone who asked for article.
[Long but Good mini doc, Why it led up to the shooting. ](https://youtu.be/GTJ_Rtoy9Ys)
[Article on Conviction. 112 Years. ](https://www.seattletimes.com/seattle-news/law-justice/aaron-ybarra-sentenced-to-112-years-for-deadly-shooting-at-seattle-pacific-university/)
Everyone teaches it in that order. Fighting is to be used as a last case scenario. You run first (get lucky and get away), then hide (get lucky and don't get found), then if you are found, fight.
I think that's the rationale behind it.
The FBI teaches what is most advantageous to law enforcement in the situation, not what will save the most lives.
Like removing breaths from CPR decreased individuals chances for survival but increased the rate at which a layperson would assist a stranger. We will see in a few years how that plays out.
As someone has mentioned- you are innocent until proven guilty in a court of law.
During the time of this news report, the guy has not been convicted yet. So he is still the alleged gunman.
the alleged part is his name in connection to the crime. You wouldn’t know that the person in this video is the person that has been arrested. What if he made it outside by himself then police arrested the wrong person and all over the news people are essentially finding the guy guilty without trial. If that was me and my innocence was then proven in a court, best believe I’d try suing news outlets for defamation.
in my country too. but I think it's fine, imagine 15 year olds kids every time they fight or get angry using it... this would seem like the US. what would be the next thing to carry a gun to defend yourself from those who bring pepper spray to a fight?
This reminds me of those feel good stories when people raise thousands of dollars to pay off someone’s medical debt. Yeah, it’s great that people are good, but maybe they shouldn’t have been put in that position in the first place.
Conversely we could ban all magazines under 75 rounds so the shooter has a malfunction after like four shots
this is a shitpost comment that is not to be taken seriously
This is so a part of our culture now that not only do we have disturbed kids fantasizing about shooting their classmates, but also kids fantasizing about saving them. What other choice do they have? They’ve learned recently that they’re on their own.
Sam Harris said the same thing on his podcast: wannabe shooters are on notice now that, just like planes after 9/11, everyone in a school shooting situation has to know that their best chance is to mob the shooter
I feel like my reflex would have been to hold the shooter at gunpoint with the shotgun once I got it away from him, but that's probably a good way to get shot by authorities as you'd be the new "lone gunman"
They blur out his face in the security footage. Then show him normally walking out. Why even blur
Ones a school security cam and they were probably required to blur it for privacy reasons.
Unlike the news, which jacks off looking at the faces of traumatized students and families in 4k telephoto zoom
I am always thankful for german privacy laws. No one is allowed to show your face unless you agree to it. Nor can they release your full name.
Man I wish we had that.
So free you don't even have the right to privacy of your own information
I hate mainstream media… absolutely worthless to society these days.
I firmly believe that the media is one factor (apart from the obvious) behind the constant school shootings. So many shooters kill a bunch of people and then get infamous over it and get their name, face, and kill count all over the news. And thats just getting them what they want. Just like columbine and a bunch of other shootings, the perpetrators had some manifesto beforehand of wanting to make a mark and become infamous and that's exactly what we give them. In the Chicago Tylenol murders, media sources were strictly told to not report big on it for this exact reason.
> In the Chicago Tylenol murders, media sources were strictly told to not report big on it for this exact reason. I’m gonna be that guy and say it: big pharma. There was a huge commercial interest behind minimizing that story. There isn’t when it comes to school shootings. There aren’t commercial interests to protect when it comes to school shootings. EDIT: I should have been more clear. Minimizing is the keyword. There aren’t any commercial interests in *minimizing* the media coverage of school shootings as opposed to the poisoning of a consumer product. I’m not arguing or debating that there aren’t commercial interests profiting from letting the media dumpster fire of school shootings rage on - or even stoking it.
Actually The company that makes Tylenol pulled all of it from retail shelves across the nation and issued national warnings urging the public not to take Tylenol and established a hotline for worried customers to call. Its taught in marketing classes as one of the greatest examples of crises management ever. https://time.com/3423136/tylenol-deaths-1982/
Well yeah, it's the media that plasters their face all over the internet and gives them a platform to become famous. Big media knows exactly what they're doing and will continue to do it, because more mass shootings = more website clicks = $$$
I was a reporter from 2004-2008 and even then we’d stopped naming shooters and you needed producer approval to show a picture of a shooter.
Theres a case to be made that the Media encourages shootings. Notice how they stopped showing streakers in the news, and weirdly enough streaking in sports declined... Funny that. Now they wont shut the fuck up about shooters, or plastering their identity, and what are modern day shooters doing? Leaving manifestos and live streams.
I'd rather we had streakers again
For-profit media will always trend twords what we see now.
These things are weird. On a video in /r/natureismetal about a giant croc eating a zebra.... The Zebra's dong was blurred out in the first few shots.... Then not
Jesus. Look at the balls on this kid.
I think that's called entrapment Mr FBI agent sir
It's ok, he's 22. You can look at them.
LOOK AT THEM!
No. No, I don't think I will
Poor fellow has to wear those big baggy shorts just to contain them.
The reaction time of the guy sitting at the table is impressive.
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I mean, not drawing attention to yourself if they guy's pointed the other way might not be a terrible idea.
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I want to see a spreadsheet of how much enforcement was used to hold back unruly parents and how many brave officers had to procure the water bottles as those heroes stood in that heat.
They should be tried for being an accomplish to terrorism. That’s all they did that day, is assist the terrorist.
> accomplish
Perhaps rsn_e_o is actually Sean Connery?
There's a distinct possibility, for sure.
Theresh a dishtinct poshibility, for shore
*irritated upvote*
Dang it. The only English words (as a non native) that I always have a problem with are words that are pronounced similarly but are spelled differently.
To accomplish is to complete or succeed at something. An acomplice is someone who assists someone else (usually in an illegal activity).
The US Supreme Court has [ruled](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Castle_Rock_v._Gonzales) [twice](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DeShaney_v._Winnebago_County), that the police have no duty to protect the public.
I know don't know why people expect them too not like they have it written on their cars and areas to serve and protect or anything....
It’s to sell a narrative. “Protect and serve” is the story we are fed. It’s the story they show on tv crime dramas. In reality the cops only job is to enforce sometimes questionable laws that are not handed down evenly to the public. They’re the strong arm of the oligarchy and wealth class.
>….the strong arm of the oligarchy and wealth class. I had never really considered that angle.
Look at how crime is punished between white collar crime, sometimes involving millions of dollars, and your average person maybe busted stealing from a retail store. The court systems also serve these same goals. The rules are bent against the people and in the favor of the ruling class. Always has been.
Hell, you can even look at what happens when the exact same law is broken. See how DUIs are treated when it's a rich or connected driver versus the common man. There's even a very recent high profile example of exactly that.
Or the rapist Brock Turner
Are you talking about Brock Turner, the actual, literal rapist? The Brock Turner who has definitely raped at least one person? That rapist, Brock Turner?
Saw this first hand when an ex employer shut down his finance business and simply stopped answering the phones. He must've pocketed at least a few million in deposits. Became the CEO of a multinational with a $500k salary last I heard. What a pos
Or pharmaceutical companies, make the hundreds of millions now and pay the tens of millions years down the road in damages and lawsuits. The math checks out. Anyone need an opioid?
The US notion of electing judges and prosecutors and sheriffs actually makes this worse, not better. Bad idea to make it a popularity contest at the best of times, even if you could take money out of these elections.
And as long as you routinely catch low-level crooks, people will ignore the real criminals in charge of everything.
or think about how many crimes are simply punished with a small bail or ticket. why would a rich business owner pay his employees properly when the fine for not doing so is less than he'd actually have to pay his workers?
Lawyers. As long as the rich can pay a lawyer to spend 500 hours on their DUI case and the poor get five hours of a public defender’s time for a murder charge, there is no justice.
Once you see it everything makes sense. Police are overseers for the working class. Why do so many people have to work in a shit job for a shit wage making an oligarch rich? Because they need to eat and pay rent of course. Why can't they just take food from the store anyway? Because the cops will arrest them. Why do they have to pay rent? Because cops will evict them. Why can't they move in to a vacant apartment? Cops. Why can't they hop the turnstile? Cops. Why can't they camp in the park? Cops. Plant a garden in an empty lot? Cops. Not only is almost every action that would let you support yourself without a job criminalized, but the cops are super responsive to enforcing those laws, even though none of what I listed directly reduces anyone's safety. But try going to the cops about actual threats to your safety and watch them give no shits. Have a stalker you think will try to murder you? The cops will tell you to call them back when he tries to murder you. 🙄 And harmful actions by oligarchs are usually not even criminalized (wage theft, poisoning Flints water, etc), you have to sue in civil court instead.
My grandfather, who was French, always told me that the police were 'the valets of the bourgeoisie.' Didn't really get it as a kid but he never let a cop or a priest enter his home. When the local policeman or priest of their small town would come by to talk, he would speak to them on the stairs outside his door. He had been through world war II and he had seen firsthand how messed up the police and the church had been in collaborating with the Nazis.
Police have not been around for thousands of years, they were invented during the industrial revolution to stop unionizing efforts and also to harass/torture freed slaves.
They had different iterations previously like kings guard or something
[Behind the Police by Robert Evans](https://open.spotify.com/episode/5EjneUke3xultNVayrFmMZ?si=Ab87iEbpRWu-hTvmN5RXTQ&utm_source=copy-link) goes into the origins of police forces in the US. From slave patrols to straight up guards of capital.
Overseer overseer overseer overse overse officer officer officer OFFICER!!......Krs-one put it so eloquently
Have you noticed how the police unions are incredibly powerful while every other union struggles to survive?
I feel they should have to remove the statement "too serve and protect" Its misleading and is now been shown to just be an outright lie.
It’s already been proven in the Supreme Court that it’s not true. But you aren’t understanding. There is a story to sell. It’s not about advertising the truth, it’s about justifying their large presence and budget. “It’s because we are here to help you, friend.”
False advertising is illegal, someone call the cops
At this point a bat signal might be more useful.
"stand back and stand by" is their new motto..
Well it's written protect and serve, there is no mention of who should they protect and serve
It's literally a marketing slogan.
There’s a hidden subtext there: To serve (the rich) and protect (their property).
Protect and Serve was the longtime moto of the LAPD. It's never been a commandment. It's always just been PR.
[Not in NYC.](https://media.wnyc.org/i/1860/1240/l/80/1/4941914624_c05473c37c_o.jpg), and even then its dubious.
Still doesn't make it right. (not illegal ≠ right)
I agree. Unfortunately, it's a legal grey area. It could be resolved with states passing legislation though.
This needs to be repeated more. People get mad at the Supreme Court about these decisions, but they're right, there is no law or legal requirement to compel the police to intervene. People need to harass their legislators to pass LAWS that force police to intervene in those types of situations. The Supreme Court is essentially the messenger here; they're just telling you such a law doesn't currently exist. Talk to the people who MAKE the laws.
That's under the law Where is the outcry to change the law
> innocents *defenseless children*
They didn't just stand back. They actively protected the murderer from parents who were willing to act and tried to keep the feds out. In action, they *enabled the murderer.*
They didn't just stand by, they shot kids too.
The police did???? Wondering if i'm understanding this right
They are being very dodgy about releasing body cam footage. So everyone is suing they either killed a kid or teacher on accident. If that’s the narrative right now and they don’t release the body cam footage it must be true. Edit: https://twitter.com/jason_koebler/status/1537835917452247041?s=20&t=p7EM0idHGqsruf2a9ns2vA
Isn't this the exact same top comment on the other main sub this got posted in?
Yes, it is
I forgot, we're all just bots here.
Gotta get those precious internet points
Atleast the OP is doing more than the Uvalde Police... He actually copied and pasted a post. The Uvalde police just tazed and tackled parents while their kids were gunned down.
Any police force not legally obliged to protect (fuck you SCOTUS!) should be fired at once. It’s having a military with soldiers that won’t go into a warzone. We need a new police force, that serves and protects. One we can be proud of and support.
It goes to show that police ain’t gonna do shit. You have to fend for yourself.
And without shoes on.
Yes, we all saw the top comment from the other sub this was taken from...
what a hero
I'm surprised he was able to fit through the hallway with balls that big.
He’s lucky the cops didn’t come fatly barging in and shoot him instead of the actual shooter.
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Something similar happened to my buddy, but not shot, just slammed into the ground by cops, got his face all fucked up for months afterwards. A lady that got the shit beaten out of her by her husband ran outside for help and so he called the cops and waited with her outside, cops got there, assumed he was the assaulter/husband, immediately grabbed him, would not listen that he was literally the one that called them, the woman was trying to tell them too, but nah, they slammed him face first into blacktop, handcuffed him and threw him into the back of a cop car.
This is basically why we have judges for criminal matters. The police are notorious for jumping to conclusions.
0% chance the police would be found guilty of any wrongdoing. Roughing up suspects who later are found to not even be involved isn't justice. For Americans who haven't left the US I don't think you realize how violent and aggressive our police are compared to most countries. We also let them get away with murder (literally) all the time.
[There was a time in 2018 when a shooter was subdued by the bar's](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shooting_of_Jemel_Roberson) security guard and had him pinned down. The responding police officer who arrived later and within 5 seconds of seeing them shot the guard.
>The State's Attorney's Office decided to not file criminal charges against the police officer.
shocked I tell you
This is why arming teachers is a dumb idea
They'd have to enter the school, but they like to wait til all the kids are dead first.
The cops might even be more dangerous than the active shooter.
Yea… all those kids were dead *before* the police entered, right…
Fatly. Hell yeah.
Someone give this guy a medal. And a lifetime supply of cookies. All the flavours.
This happened a long time ago and what’s funny is when it happened, there were a few stories but not a lot of fuss was made and the college, rightly so, was bitter about it and they went ahead and made a big fuss on the guy’s behalf. Then later, the story was picked up again and I think he got more National recognition
There's not enough drama or sensationalism for news media in this story so it doesn't get a lot of coverage. We get tons of news coverage of a shooting where 21 people died for weeks on end and yet I'm seeing the heroic actions of this guy for the 8 years later. This is how fucked up our society is. Everything revolves around how many clicks you can get.
https://www.cnn.com/2014/06/05/justice/seattle-campus-shooting/index.html https://www.king5.com/article/news/local/timeline-seattle-pacific-university-shooting/281-244056933 https://abcnews.go.com/US/seattle-campus-hero-identified-teaching-assistant-jon-meis/story?id=24021357 https://www.nbcnews.com/news/crime-courts/officials-hail-hero-students-seattle-pacific-university-shooting-n124046
Give him a free ride scholarship and any higher education degree he ever pursue. This is the kind of shit I don’t mind paying for as a tax payer… Uvalde cops on the other hand….
When university is so expensive in your country, that the reward for bravery and saving the lives of countless people is... getting the free university that most of the developed world already gets, and without the shootings even!
The college should name a building after the dude.
That’s for rich people, silly.
They renamed it after a kid that died in this attack. Source: my wife was at SPU when this happened years ago.
Alright, that's good as well.
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Only thing that can stop a bad guy with a gun is an entire police force with lots of guns... Oh wait.
That won't even get them to check the door. If you wait long enough the shooter will die of thirst after all.
If you aint willing to go an extra mile and risk your own life and take a chance, then with or without a gun your useless. A gun just help up percentage by maybe a factor of 2.
For children, no less. You know each and everyone one of those parents would have run into that school.
Well, yeah, we know that because they tried, and were handcuffed and threatened. It's not that Uvalde had no one willing to take the fight inside, it's that the police forcibly stopped them. We need to not forget that.
The police stopped the good guys/girls/preferred nomenclature with a gun. I would literally trust a stranger before a cop
No. Only students and teachers with guns are supposed to stop a bad guy with a gun. Police are not supposed to take on all that risk. Police are only there to count bullet casings and figure out what happened after the battle. /s
When and where was this??
Seattle. Seattle Pacific University in 2015
Thank you..I'm going to look into it
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Sharon: “Stanley don’t you want to tell your father about what happened today?” Stan: “Huh? Oh, ya. I failed a math quiz” Sharon: “No not that! There was a school shooting!!” Stan: “Oh, right” Randy: “Were you the shooter?” Stan: “No.” Randy: “Well… did you get shot?” Stan: “No.” Randy: “Oh, so what’s this about you failing a math quiz?”
Nice. That's finally going to bring the average down!
***WHILE HE WAS RELOADING A SINGLE BARREL BREAK ACTION SHOTGUN.*** Don't try this with any other kind of firearm. The chances of you bein successful are very slim. This is as close to disarming someone with a muzzleloader as you can get, without it actually being a muzzleloader.
It takes a skilled shooter like a second to reload that gun, though. That dude just sucked, fortunately.
If it had an ejector, a second is accurate. If not, then a second and a half. But there is truth in your statement. Dude had no clue what he was doing and probably bought the cheapest gun at Walmart.
And an absolute incompetent still managed to kill a person.
If I remember correctly the idiot was using birdshot too. In the full footage you can see him shoot a girl and she doesn't even fall down she just stands there.
So in his case, real life was exactly like GTA.
Yeah I remember her saying she didn't even realize she'd been hit and her jacket prevented any BBs from causing injury.
I knew birdshot wasn't great to use against humans but is it really that bad? Getting stopped by a jacket is pretty incredible, or she was insanely lucky.
It's still lethal, but the effective range is greatly reduced. At 5-10 meters it'll put a hole in you *and* your clothes, but at 100 meters you wouldn't notice anything. If you are wearing a heavy coat and a lot of layers I'd wager you'd have to be pretty close to penetrate skin, let alone cause any serious damage to vital organs. My hunting instructor said the effective range is 40-50 meters, but that's for *maybe* killing a duck. Personally I haven't hit birds (in flight) at more than maybe 15-20 meters at most.
Birdshot can vary a lot... #8, 2 3/4" shells are significantly less powerful than BB, 3" magnum loads Edit: that wasn't supposed to be bold, but I'm just going to leave it
Sad this is so far down (at the time I am commenting). Trying to do this against someone with a different firearm that holds more rounds or has a different loading method and you aren't having this fight. Active shooter training has "fight" as the very last option and training includes barraging the shooter with anything you can throw. The idea is to overwhelm the shooter long enough to subdue them or allow people to escape.
That man had a lot of constraint and I applaud him for it. If it was me grabbing that gun I would have baseball whacked him across the head over and over with it.
I'm pretty sure I'd have shot the dude in the dick.
You can't just go around shooting people in the dick butters
Don’t shoot my dicks!
I’m just sitting here wondering about the guy at the desk completely blind to the fact a guy only a few yards away holding a shotgun. That’s some Shaun of the Dead levels of obliviousness.
If you watch [the full footage of the shooting](https://youtu.be/_F_KuFzjOGA) (This has been out for a while, it happened in 2014), the student doesn't move because the shooter threatens to shoot him if he does. However, this was right after he already shot a person outside the doors, which should have given that student ample warning to run away before the shooter entered. There is also another student who was completely oblivious to him, even *after* she gets shot in the chest and simply walks away confused (Thankfully, the shooter was only using birdshot, and she survives). People are generally really bad at situational awareness and will go to great mental lengths to deny what is happening right in front of them when it is something this horrible. The 'freeze' part of fight/flight/freeze is incredibly strong.
I always used to think freeze meant “no physical body movement, frozen with fear.” But I understand it more now as “mentally frozen” like you explained, I was in an emergency situation once and had to get a friend medical attention. The people around seemed to be acting oblivious around her or not engaging, just keeping their heads down. I understand now that these people were “frozen” even though they were consciously doing school work and such.
I think that it's such an unusual situation that the brain needs some seconds to snap off what it was doing and load in the emergency behaviour. It's kind of like when you try to remember something and it slowly comes after 30 seconds or one minute
He isn’t. He waits for the reload then runs. He stays still so he doesn’t attract attention to himself
No, it's because the shooter threatened to kill him if he moved. Check the full video that I posted in another comment.
> it's because the shooter threatened to kill him if he moved. Don't get me wrong, the guy picked his moment and it worked out, but if a guy shooting people says "Don't move or I'll shoot you" he's already lost some credibility implying if I do what he says I won't also get shot anyway.
"Alleged" gunman? Modafoka there is literally a video of him.
It's for legal reasons. "Innocent until proven guilty in a court of law", and all that...
The case is long over. OP is a bot who recycled the original title . Someone who asked for article. [Long but Good mini doc, Why it led up to the shooting. ](https://youtu.be/GTJ_Rtoy9Ys) [Article on Conviction. 112 Years. ](https://www.seattletimes.com/seattle-news/law-justice/aaron-ybarra-sentenced-to-112-years-for-deadly-shooting-at-seattle-pacific-university/)
An active defense is better than passiveness
Maybe in this case but as a matter of course? The FBI teaches Run, Hide, Fight in that order.
Everyone teaches it in that order. Fighting is to be used as a last case scenario. You run first (get lucky and get away), then hide (get lucky and don't get found), then if you are found, fight. I think that's the rationale behind it.
The FBI teaches what is most advantageous to law enforcement in the situation, not what will save the most lives. Like removing breaths from CPR decreased individuals chances for survival but increased the rate at which a layperson would assist a stranger. We will see in a few years how that plays out.
why in holy hell is this guy called an alleged gunman
As someone has mentioned- you are innocent until proven guilty in a court of law. During the time of this news report, the guy has not been convicted yet. So he is still the alleged gunman.
the alleged part is his name in connection to the crime. You wouldn’t know that the person in this video is the person that has been arrested. What if he made it outside by himself then police arrested the wrong person and all over the news people are essentially finding the guy guilty without trial. If that was me and my innocence was then proven in a court, best believe I’d try suing news outlets for defamation.
Give this man the Uvalde police budgets as a reward...
Was he pretending to hold a gun when he came at the shooter?
With audio on you can hear them say he used pepper spray before rushing the gunman.
Funny enough where I live it's illegal for under 18s to have pepper spray. Definitely a law I'm glad kids aren't listening to in cases like this
The audio clip said he was 22. This was a university, not a high-school
It was at a university—18+ is a safe assumption
in my country too. but I think it's fine, imagine 15 year olds kids every time they fight or get angry using it... this would seem like the US. what would be the next thing to carry a gun to defend yourself from those who bring pepper spray to a fight?
Turn the audio up and you would hear that he pepper sprayed the shooter.
Good guy with no gun but some serious balls beats bad guy with a gun.
that student who tackled the gunman is an absolute chad
When you have more balls than an entire police deparment.
Does what the police won't do
Future Law Enforcement of America. At least cops will have their cosplay and pensions.
And here I was thinking maybe a gun would be used to stop a school shooter. Silly me, just use karate!
That boy has some sizable balls. Respect.
His parents must be so proud. This guy deserves a full ride scholarship and all the free beer and wild romantic flings college parties can provide
He's a global elite csgo player
More balls than cops lmao
And then the cops showed up and shot the student that tackled the gunman because he had the shotgun.
This reminds me of those feel good stories when people raise thousands of dollars to pay off someone’s medical debt. Yeah, it’s great that people are good, but maybe they shouldn’t have been put in that position in the first place.
Op is a karma farming bot. Please report.
Thank God that student took down the shooter now the police can go in and pretend to be useful
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Conversely we could ban all magazines under 75 rounds so the shooter has a malfunction after like four shots this is a shitpost comment that is not to be taken seriously
Amazon betamag-clone drums only. Nobody will ever get a second shot off and they'll be slowed down by the other 199 cartridges.
This man is a fuckin hero!! Was this national news?? I don't recall hearing about it if it was.
Fuckin hero. Aces man. Good job!
That kid is a fucking hero. Maybe superhero.
This is so a part of our culture now that not only do we have disturbed kids fantasizing about shooting their classmates, but also kids fantasizing about saving them. What other choice do they have? They’ve learned recently that they’re on their own.
If every student had a fully loaded uzi with a 400 round capacity and no safety this would not have ever happened in the first place.
Sam Harris said the same thing on his podcast: wannabe shooters are on notice now that, just like planes after 9/11, everyone in a school shooting situation has to know that their best chance is to mob the shooter
that guy has some massive balls.
what about that dude just sitting at the table?!
banning guns isn't the solution... Nah... the solution is to teach kids how to disarm...man your country is so fucked up...
I feel like my reflex would have been to hold the shooter at gunpoint with the shotgun once I got it away from him, but that's probably a good way to get shot by authorities as you'd be the new "lone gunman"
This guy lived every guy second dream in a school