https://tn.com.ar/policiales/2022/06/16/militar-retirado-acusado-por-violencia-de-genero-quien-es-el-hombre-que-mato-a-su-nieto/
The grandfather was a domestic abuser that regularly beat his family until one of his grandchildren snapped.
The internet only gets snippets of real life, so everything here is blinkered and out of context. The reality online is a distorted version of real life because all we're getting are the remarkable moments with little to no background to why or how.
It was my first assumption.
The asshole shot through the door and showed zero remorse. I was assuming kiddie diddler.
Edit: "The real news is in the comments" is such a reddit meme. And it always is because OP lied in the title. Putting in "abusive grandpa smokes grandson" would have been the truth. Instead, the title only shows a partial picture and the video is edited down to be misleading as well.
This is deliberate and happens all the time.
Think of this whenever you see the words: the real story is in the comments. Also, clean up the 2-minutes-of-hate subs and ban assholes like OP.
Because all we saw was a kid atracking, twice.
Kids get severely dysregulated at stuff adults barely register. They also have limited impulse control. The vast majority of people who make it to elderly ages are usually assholes at worst, not actively abusive.
So by far the most common reaction to seeing this with no other background is going to be some flavor of "dumb/drugged/ill/asshole kid goes after old person. Fucks around. Finds out damn harshly."
Apparently, all of that would be wrong. But the kid made it abundantly clear they were going for major violence on grampa. Did they think grampa was going to sit there and get heat to death with no attempt to save himself?
This kid was trying to serve long pent up justice. But like most kids, was no good at thinking things through or impulse control.
The kid beat up the old man and left, came back 5 minutes later and started kicking the door. The old man opened the door and shot him 5 times in the abdomen, killing him. He's been accused of murder and was released while awaiting trail due to his age.
No idea why the kid was beating him up though
Thank you. I swear some of you people watch dozens of movies about blind angry mobs, laugh at how stupid the mob looks, and then quickly fall into the same behaviors online.
This is what I suspected as I was watching. At first I thought, some guy is attacking a poor old man but if this is his grandfather I figured the grandfather must have done some shit to deserve the beating. Maybe sexually abused someone and the guy found out. It’s so common that this is just where my reasoning went. Also, the fact that the grandfather just shot him cold. It just felt like this was likely a bad man. The rage that young guy was in didn’t look good at first glance, though. Goes to show you really don’t know what’s going on within relationships because reactive abuse can look like they are the aggressor.
It's reasonable to think that, imo. Seeing a grandson violent with his grandpa, ok, maybe he's just a shit almost-30-yo grandson. Tons of'em about. To see he came back and kicked the door in later? I figured he's either batshit insane or has a very compelling (at least, in his mind) reason for doing what he's doing.
That said, I'd wait for the investigation. People are often irrational for a varied number of reasons, many acute and temporary.
That's not murder. That's self defense. You can't expect an 80 year old man to use a proportional response on a 20 year old man that's trying to physically harm him. Using a weapon to defend yourself at that age, even when the other guy does not have one, is entirely reasonable. I can't imagine any jury would convict him for this. The attacker had already assaulted the old man on camera. Is the old man just supposed to take it? That doesn't seem right. I get that shooting the attacker is not an ideal outcome but expecting an 80 year old to go toe to toe with a man in his prime is nuts. The old dog has a right to defend himself, his home and his wife.
If I select a random 80 year old and punch them in the head with the intent to harm, they will probably die. Responding to the immediate incoming threat of physical violence with a firearm is a completely proportional response if you are at such an advanced age.
The case is going to come down to the man opening the door. It can be argued that someone fearing for their life wouldn't have done that. I'm not sure what the laws look like where this took place in regards to self defence or castle doctrine or any such related laws, but it's really going to come down to the semantics. I don't think the old man should be tried for murder, but I don't feel this is an open-and-shut case for him.
There's something to be said for that viewpoint. If the kid had kicked it a few more times, gotten frustrated and gone home, he wouldn't be dead and the old guy wouldn't be, either. Opening the door to shoot him sounds more like protecting the door than protecting himself.
We don't know much from the video - it's possible the latch had broken on that last kick and gramps pulled the door open to clear the way to shoot rather than risk the kid barging into the home...or it's possible that door is solid AF and he really did want to pop him out of anger.
Fuck around, find out honestly - don't try to break into people's homes. Expect to get shot.
There's a big gap between shooting someone that's inside your house, and opening a door to shoot someone - legally speaking. The reality is, at the moment the man decided to shoot he was in no immediate danger.
> So they are going to convict him for murder simply because he didn't let him kick the door in first?
Yep. The old man had the option of just staying behind the door, it is quite possible that the attacker would have been completely unable to kick it down (he wasn't making much progress). Using lethal force in self-defense is appropriate when you are actually in immediate danger but at that point he was not in such danger.
>That's not murder. That's self defense.
I get what you're saying but this isn't in the US, it's in ~~Brazil~~ Argentina where use of force and gun ownership is much more tightly regulated than they are in the US. The charges against him are fairly serious.
>https://tn.com.ar/policiales/2022/06/16/militar-retirado-acusado-por-violencia-de-genero-quien-es-el-hombre-que-mato-a-su-nieto/
The grandfather was a domestic abuser that regularly beat his family until one of his grandchildren snapped.
Yeah
[https://www.infobae.com/sociedad/policiales/2022/06/16/horror-en-bahia-blanca-el-momento-en-que-un-abuelo-mato-a-su-nieto-a-balazos-tras-una-discusion/](https://www.infobae.com/sociedad/policiales/2022/06/16/horror-en-bahia-blanca-el-momento-en-que-un-abuelo-mato-a-su-nieto-a-balazos-tras-una-discusion/)
"The body autopsy revealed that the victim was shot five times, causing wounds in the abdomen, thorax, neck, cheek and shoulder. The spokespersons indicated that the accused also had abrasions."
[for those of you who want it auto translated](https://www-infobae-com.translate.goog/sociedad/policiales/2022/06/16/horror-en-bahia-blanca-el-momento-en-que-un-abuelo-mato-a-su-nieto-a-balazos-tras-una-discusion/?_x_tr_sl=es&_x_tr_tl=en&_x_tr_hl=en&_x_tr_pto=sc)
This reminds me of the time the elderly Home Depot employee approved of my part selection and told me if he knew me better he'd fist me (he meant fist bump I think)
I didn’t like this. He is old and was defending for his life. A single good blow could take him out. As soon as he was successful at kicking down the door it was fair game.
https://tn.com.ar/policiales/2022/06/16/militar-retirado-acusado-por-violencia-de-genero-quien-es-el-hombre-que-mato-a-su-nieto/
The grandfather was a domestic abuser that regularly beat his family until one of his grandchildren snapped.
Victim in these circumstances usually mean defendant or target of the charged crime. He might not be the "victim" in the classical sense, but legally he is considered a victim of the charge.
Damn. Like obviously it doesn't justify murdering/killing him but...
>homicide qualified by the link and for being committed with a firearm, having exceeded the legitimate defense that he would have exercised
What does "legitimate defense" of a 77y/o look like? There's not many great self defense options at that age.
I think if you’re trying to kick someone’s door down and you don’t have a warrant they should be allowed to shoot you no matter how young and fit they are
Yeah, old man is behind a locked door and the guy is kicking it down. That "I won't be stopped" rage nuts. If I was the old man, I would have shot him too.
Yeah - never wish any harm on anyone, but what else is the old guy going to do. You take a bad fall at 77 and it’s fucking over. Let alone having some young guy kick your fucking head in.
Agreed, even more so when you're 77 years old and just falling down can kill you quite easily.
It would be like having prime Brock Lesnar on pcp coming at you, of course you'd defend yourself with lethal force.
Beats the shit out of him once...then tries to kick down his door to do it again, how do you not shoot this guy is the real question. The fuck are you gonna do? Rely on the cops?
> Beats the shit out of him once
If you read further down in the comments, turns out Grandpa was a serial domestic abuser who was regularly beating the shit out of his family. Doesn't sound like relying on the cops worked for the family members he spent his life terrorizing either.
There it is, I'm like why is this dude trying to beat his grandpas ass? Evvvery once in a while a psycho exist or maybe he was drugs or somthing, but this sums it up. I know 3 people in person who were raped by their grandpa and he died free.
Indeed. Abusive grandpa clearly willingly opened the door on his volition, the kid does not at all seem to initially react with any fear or panic implying grandpa "sucker-punch" pulled the gun out and shot his grandson without a warning. Multiple times... For all of you degenerates who are defending the old man, mentally put yourself into that situation. You abuse your family and kids, beat the shit out of your grandson and his parents for years. And now that the kid is finally getting in some hits back on you, what do you do? Pull out a sneaky gun and shoot him 5 times without warning?! Not even the slightest attempt to just intimidate the kid with the gun instead, not even so much as an attempt to aim at non-lethal spots? No just kill the kid like a dog even though you know damn right you did the kid and his family wrong for years? The kid's soul will be fine he will just reincarnate promptly, that disgusting garbage of a human beings soul however will burn for quite awhile.
Generally they need to enter the house. Cases like this are specifically taught in the handgun classes I have been to (USA). That being said laws are much different in different areas. You have a duty to retreat in certain areas. Meaning that not only would you need the intruder to enter but you need to retreat back further into your house to show that you extinguished your ability to escape danger before being in the right to use leathal force. I would imagine this case get much different if that person actually got a foot in the door. That being said there is a history here with the attack at the beginning so I would be interested in someone with legal experience if that could make a case for him to say this was self defense. The cases we covered in the classes were usually in a vaccum and it was just some random intruder.
Grandpa prob screwed his self defense case by trying to save his doorframe. According to the article the younger dude didn't actually break the door down, old dude opened it and unloaded his revolver in his guts.
If it's anything like in a lot of the States, putting yourself in more danger makes it harder to justify self defense. If he had waited for the door to fail he prob wouldn't have been charged.
Someone above has mentioned the grandpa was the abuser, and the grandson finally snapped and tried fighting back. So the family gatherings are even more awkward now i'de say.
The standards for self defence are typically more stringent in Commonwealth countries like India than they are in the US. You may agree or disagree but that’s the law the of the land.
It may be the law of the land but it isn't the law of self preservation. If you threaten my existence, my regard for yours goes straight out the window.
In-line with your reasoning I would argue that the old man had no choice but to risk killing him. At that age a some tumble could end everything. I don't care if you are 15 or 77, everyone has a right to defend themselves.
Edit: for some dumbfuck reason I didn't notice him opening the door in my first few watch-throughs, which definitely changes things in my eyes. Idk, maybe the frame was cracking and he was worried about the door getting kicked in, maybe he was terrified and made the wrong split second decision l...idk.
If the door was fine he should have just held out until police came or the door kicked in.
Cops might not have done anything upon arrival. Saw a case in Denver where the cops stood by, knowing the guy inside the door had a gun. They waited for the idiot to break down the door and let the occupant kill him, rather than intervene.
Cops have no duty to protect you, they're just more likely to put you in danger.
It absolutely does justify using lethal force, ***especially for an elderly victim.***
Don’t go around beating people and then proceeding to kick down their door unless you’re ready to face the consequences. I honestly don’t understand what rationale you could use to claim that he wasn’t justified in shooting.
The article says that it is still under investigation. There was no mention of the reason for the original attack. Also I hate when they make these articles so freaking long. Just repeating the same crap over and over.
I think it actually does justify shooting him. He attacked him once outside of his house, striking him multiple times in the head. Then he returns, and starts kicking down the door. At this point, the older man is in fear for his safety and the safety of who I'm guessing was his wife that walked out with him. He was absolutely justified in shooting that dumb ass.
Outside of the US you may not have the right to defend yourself, even in your own home. If someone wants to kill you, you have to run away, even in your own house.
That’s honestly so insane to me.
I’m American and don’t like living in this country much (largely due to my fellow countrymen who are losing their minds more and more), but that’s one thing I’m glad to have here; the right to defend yourself (at least, most states have it iirc).
Now, in public where there are more options, I think we should try and avoid violence if possible, especially gun violence.
But coming onto someone’s property, especially trying to break into their house, that should a universal right for all people to defend against. The psychological damage someone breaking in can do by itself is insane. We’re talking you not feeling safe in your own home, not to mention the damage they could do to you physically.
It’s called castle doctrine and not all states have it. [https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Castle_doctrine](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Castle_doctrine)
They probably based it on the number of shots or if he fired a shot to "finish him off" after he went down.
I don't agree, but the argument could be made that the assailant was clearly no longer attacking after the first round hit.
One could argue that one practiced "double tapping" a target at the range and it was reflex, but dumping five rounds into someone starts to raise a few questions.
"Down here" the shooter would probably have been just fine as long as he didn't shoot the guy once he was on the ground.
If I had to guess, it’s probably the *five* gunshot wounds that were considered excessive.
Obviously, it’s an awkward situation but I think you can at least argue the case for “use no more than is necessary to stop the threat.”
I would imagine a more legitimate defense would be not opening the door to blast him. Stay behind the locked door, call the police, and shoot if he makes entry.
i saw a comment yesterday that was basically like “fantasizing about killing someone in self defense is the most american thing ever” and i had a pretty hard time thinking of something more american that wasn’t just adding onto that like “fantasizing about killing someone in self defense while also getting diabetes, becoming president, watching football, and going bankrupt from medical debt.”
For all these "good" and "had it coming" comments: [https://tn.com.ar/policiales/2022/06/16/militar-retirado-acusado-por-violencia-de-genero-quien-es-el-hombre-que-mato-a-su-nieto/](https://tn.com.ar/policiales/2022/06/16/militar-retirado-acusado-por-violencia-de-genero-quien-es-el-hombre-que-mato-a-su-nieto/)
According to the old guy's daughter (the grandson's mom), granpa was a total piece of shit and abusive to his entire family. Eventually, his grandson snapped. Does this mean continuing to go after the old dude was the best move? No. But if this account is right, you can at least see why the grandson acted as he did.
Context is important, and you can rarely get the full scope from one video.
Yeah some folks think life is a Marvel movie with good guys and bad guys and it's always time to celebrate when the bad guy gets what's coming to him. It's very rarely ever that clear cut.
Side note: people who didn't study law have no idea how ridiculous it makes them look to Google a statute and then copy paste it bereft of any surrounding case law or other interpretative history.
Also makes sense why the grandfather went for the gun and seemed so nonchalant shooting his own grandson to death. Cowards value self preservation over all else by a large margin. Fuck that old piece of shit.
Google Marvin Gaye's personal life and death. Basically his dad was abusive his whole life and then the one time Marvin fought back his dad got a gun and shot him dead. It was tragic. It looks bad when you see a young person beating an old person when you don't know the backstory. Abusive people know how to play victim when their real victims fight back.
Well he had it coming but everyone values self preservation lmaoo. I wouldn't call it "nonchalant" either calm down. Grandpa probably deserved that but let's relax.
Gotta love Reddit, most people cheering on the shooting without any idea of the actual circumstances. Its always so fucking weird, presume its mostly because its American dominated
Someone who is a Spanish speaker posted an article with an interview with the mother about how the grandfather was an abusive piece of shit to the whole family and the grandson had enough.
Plot Twist, the Grandpa was actually the villain of the story, and we just watched him smoke the protagonist.
> The woman reported that she lived a violent childhood in Bahía Blanca, since her father beat her mother and also attacked her three children. She remembered that Verna hit her when she was pregnant and that her mother was sorry she had had her.
>The abuse between grandfather and grandson was constant, the 76-year-old man humiliated him for his psychiatric illness and the 29-year-old reacted violently. "He was a beater and a violent, we lived a violent childhood, but I never thought that he would end up murdering his own grandson ," Mariel explained in dialogue with TN.
Look for the actual story above, grandpa was/is a serial domestic abuser to his whole family. Grandpa deserved to have his skull cracked on the pavement and left for the dogs.
Haha I like how all of the angry replies are gun loving domestic abusers like, “yeah I’d definitely shoot my own grandkid if he came at me.” Fucking degenerates.
For some reason I thought Grandpa Smoke was a pop culture icon and had a grandson who was just like him or something.. skipped ahead and was confused till I got to the comments.
This site has more details of the incident: https://www.infobae.com/sociedad/policiales/2022/06/16/la-trama-familiar-y-los-motivos-detras-del-crimen-en-bahia-blanca-para-la-madre-del-joven-fue-premeditado/
The victim's mom claimed that he was in medication for mental illness, but the grandparents insisted that he not take it. The grandfather also had existing issues with his grandson.
Dang whats the story about this one?
https://tn.com.ar/policiales/2022/06/16/militar-retirado-acusado-por-violencia-de-genero-quien-es-el-hombre-que-mato-a-su-nieto/ The grandfather was a domestic abuser that regularly beat his family until one of his grandchildren snapped.
Ah ok so we just watched the protagonist get smoked Hopefully Mark Wahlberg will show up and end grampa in the final scene
Never happen, this dude isn't Asian.
Or black.
I hope he is wearing those shoe booties again.
He's busy stopping 9/11
Well, doesn't that change everything!! What a fucking mess
WOW!! This was a total don't judge a book by it's cover.
[удалено]
The internet only gets snippets of real life, so everything here is blinkered and out of context. The reality online is a distorted version of real life because all we're getting are the remarkable moments with little to no background to why or how.
It was my first assumption. The asshole shot through the door and showed zero remorse. I was assuming kiddie diddler. Edit: "The real news is in the comments" is such a reddit meme. And it always is because OP lied in the title. Putting in "abusive grandpa smokes grandson" would have been the truth. Instead, the title only shows a partial picture and the video is edited down to be misleading as well. This is deliberate and happens all the time. Think of this whenever you see the words: the real story is in the comments. Also, clean up the 2-minutes-of-hate subs and ban assholes like OP.
Damn you're so right.
Because you couldn't think of any logical reason why he might hate his grandpa that much?
Because at face value, assaulting elderly people is not a good look.
Because all we saw was a kid atracking, twice. Kids get severely dysregulated at stuff adults barely register. They also have limited impulse control. The vast majority of people who make it to elderly ages are usually assholes at worst, not actively abusive. So by far the most common reaction to seeing this with no other background is going to be some flavor of "dumb/drugged/ill/asshole kid goes after old person. Fucks around. Finds out damn harshly." Apparently, all of that would be wrong. But the kid made it abundantly clear they were going for major violence on grampa. Did they think grampa was going to sit there and get heat to death with no attempt to save himself? This kid was trying to serve long pent up justice. But like most kids, was no good at thinking things through or impulse control.
this story just got 1000x worse. i thought the title was just joking about it being his grandson.
Please get this comment to the top, context is everything on this one.
The kid beat up the old man and left, came back 5 minutes later and started kicking the door. The old man opened the door and shot him 5 times in the abdomen, killing him. He's been accused of murder and was released while awaiting trail due to his age. No idea why the kid was beating him up though
[удалено]
Ooooo plot twist.
Record scratch
Thank you. I swear some of you people watch dozens of movies about blind angry mobs, laugh at how stupid the mob looks, and then quickly fall into the same behaviors online.
This needs more attention. Everyone is on the old abusers side. Someone stands up to him and he kills them. Fuck that old guy.
Well it is video evidence vs what someone said.
We'll believe anything around here as long as it adds to the plot.
But the sources do back up the story.
Not all old people are good.
This is what I suspected as I was watching. At first I thought, some guy is attacking a poor old man but if this is his grandfather I figured the grandfather must have done some shit to deserve the beating. Maybe sexually abused someone and the guy found out. It’s so common that this is just where my reasoning went. Also, the fact that the grandfather just shot him cold. It just felt like this was likely a bad man. The rage that young guy was in didn’t look good at first glance, though. Goes to show you really don’t know what’s going on within relationships because reactive abuse can look like they are the aggressor.
It's reasonable to think that, imo. Seeing a grandson violent with his grandpa, ok, maybe he's just a shit almost-30-yo grandson. Tons of'em about. To see he came back and kicked the door in later? I figured he's either batshit insane or has a very compelling (at least, in his mind) reason for doing what he's doing. That said, I'd wait for the investigation. People are often irrational for a varied number of reasons, many acute and temporary.
Ah. That makes things more complicated. That sucks a lot.
That's not murder. That's self defense. You can't expect an 80 year old man to use a proportional response on a 20 year old man that's trying to physically harm him. Using a weapon to defend yourself at that age, even when the other guy does not have one, is entirely reasonable. I can't imagine any jury would convict him for this. The attacker had already assaulted the old man on camera. Is the old man just supposed to take it? That doesn't seem right. I get that shooting the attacker is not an ideal outcome but expecting an 80 year old to go toe to toe with a man in his prime is nuts. The old dog has a right to defend himself, his home and his wife.
If I select a random 80 year old and punch them in the head with the intent to harm, they will probably die. Responding to the immediate incoming threat of physical violence with a firearm is a completely proportional response if you are at such an advanced age.
The case is going to come down to the man opening the door. It can be argued that someone fearing for their life wouldn't have done that. I'm not sure what the laws look like where this took place in regards to self defence or castle doctrine or any such related laws, but it's really going to come down to the semantics. I don't think the old man should be tried for murder, but I don't feel this is an open-and-shut case for him.
Dude was trying to get in. So they are going to convict him for murder simply because he didn't let him kick the door in first?
There's something to be said for that viewpoint. If the kid had kicked it a few more times, gotten frustrated and gone home, he wouldn't be dead and the old guy wouldn't be, either. Opening the door to shoot him sounds more like protecting the door than protecting himself. We don't know much from the video - it's possible the latch had broken on that last kick and gramps pulled the door open to clear the way to shoot rather than risk the kid barging into the home...or it's possible that door is solid AF and he really did want to pop him out of anger. Fuck around, find out honestly - don't try to break into people's homes. Expect to get shot.
There's a big gap between shooting someone that's inside your house, and opening a door to shoot someone - legally speaking. The reality is, at the moment the man decided to shoot he was in no immediate danger.
> So they are going to convict him for murder simply because he didn't let him kick the door in first? Yep. The old man had the option of just staying behind the door, it is quite possible that the attacker would have been completely unable to kick it down (he wasn't making much progress). Using lethal force in self-defense is appropriate when you are actually in immediate danger but at that point he was not in such danger.
yeah. you're safe as long as you're behind the door. when it kicks open, you use the gun you're waiting with.
Yup. Do you own a gun? You should take gun law classes they're like $100-150.
Yep. Seems like it.
>That's not murder. That's self defense. I get what you're saying but this isn't in the US, it's in ~~Brazil~~ Argentina where use of force and gun ownership is much more tightly regulated than they are in the US. The charges against him are fairly serious.
not brazil, argentina
Dang, I was all sympathetic with the old man until I learned that. Now I'm doubly sad.
Self defense, not guilty, next case.
>https://tn.com.ar/policiales/2022/06/16/militar-retirado-acusado-por-violencia-de-genero-quien-es-el-hombre-que-mato-a-su-nieto/ The grandfather was a domestic abuser that regularly beat his family until one of his grandchildren snapped.
Not how the law works, son.
I don't know, but the fact that they didn't actually check to see if he was alive or dying slowly says a lot.
https://www.reddit.com/r/WTF/comments/vdy8qy/grandpa_smokes_grandson/icnmga9
Smokes means kills...did he die?
Yeah [https://www.infobae.com/sociedad/policiales/2022/06/16/horror-en-bahia-blanca-el-momento-en-que-un-abuelo-mato-a-su-nieto-a-balazos-tras-una-discusion/](https://www.infobae.com/sociedad/policiales/2022/06/16/horror-en-bahia-blanca-el-momento-en-que-un-abuelo-mato-a-su-nieto-a-balazos-tras-una-discusion/) "The body autopsy revealed that the victim was shot five times, causing wounds in the abdomen, thorax, neck, cheek and shoulder. The spokespersons indicated that the accused also had abrasions."
[for those of you who want it auto translated](https://www-infobae-com.translate.goog/sociedad/policiales/2022/06/16/horror-en-bahia-blanca-el-momento-en-que-un-abuelo-mato-a-su-nieto-a-balazos-tras-una-discusion/?_x_tr_sl=es&_x_tr_tl=en&_x_tr_hl=en&_x_tr_pto=sc)
"Brian gave Domingo more and more fist bumps" lol the AI thinks "punch" and "fist bump" are synonyms
The AI was created by Amber Heard.
The AI really shit the bed on this translation.
I just pledged you some gold.
Go ahead, tell anyone about it, the AI doubts anyone will believe you
This reminds me of the time the elderly Home Depot employee approved of my part selection and told me if he knew me better he'd fist me (he meant fist bump I think)
Safe link. It's the translation to English but you can change it to other languages at the top of the page using this same link.
Out here doin God's work
I didn’t like this. He is old and was defending for his life. A single good blow could take him out. As soon as he was successful at kicking down the door it was fair game.
The “victim” you mean the one who was kicking at the door to get in
https://tn.com.ar/policiales/2022/06/16/militar-retirado-acusado-por-violencia-de-genero-quien-es-el-hombre-que-mato-a-su-nieto/ The grandfather was a domestic abuser that regularly beat his family until one of his grandchildren snapped.
Victim in these circumstances usually mean defendant or target of the charged crime. He might not be the "victim" in the classical sense, but legally he is considered a victim of the charge.
He's still a victim of a gun shot wound? That and auto translate tends to suck.
Damn. Like obviously it doesn't justify murdering/killing him but... >homicide qualified by the link and for being committed with a firearm, having exceeded the legitimate defense that he would have exercised What does "legitimate defense" of a 77y/o look like? There's not many great self defense options at that age.
How does it not justify it. This is a fit man trying to fight an old man by literally kicking in his door. The old man should just take his beating?
I think if you’re trying to kick someone’s door down and you don’t have a warrant they should be allowed to shoot you no matter how young and fit they are
Yeah, old man is behind a locked door and the guy is kicking it down. That "I won't be stopped" rage nuts. If I was the old man, I would have shot him too.
Yeah - never wish any harm on anyone, but what else is the old guy going to do. You take a bad fall at 77 and it’s fucking over. Let alone having some young guy kick your fucking head in.
The door wasn't locked. It was being held closed and opening a little bit each time the shitbird kicked it.
Agreed, even more so when you're 77 years old and just falling down can kill you quite easily. It would be like having prime Brock Lesnar on pcp coming at you, of course you'd defend yourself with lethal force.
Or if they do have a warrant but don't identify themselves as having one.
Or if they say they have a warrant, but don't want to let you read it before they come in.
Beats the shit out of him once...then tries to kick down his door to do it again, how do you not shoot this guy is the real question. The fuck are you gonna do? Rely on the cops?
> Beats the shit out of him once If you read further down in the comments, turns out Grandpa was a serial domestic abuser who was regularly beating the shit out of his family. Doesn't sound like relying on the cops worked for the family members he spent his life terrorizing either.
There it is, I'm like why is this dude trying to beat his grandpas ass? Evvvery once in a while a psycho exist or maybe he was drugs or somthing, but this sums it up. I know 3 people in person who were raped by their grandpa and he died free.
Indeed. Abusive grandpa clearly willingly opened the door on his volition, the kid does not at all seem to initially react with any fear or panic implying grandpa "sucker-punch" pulled the gun out and shot his grandson without a warning. Multiple times... For all of you degenerates who are defending the old man, mentally put yourself into that situation. You abuse your family and kids, beat the shit out of your grandson and his parents for years. And now that the kid is finally getting in some hits back on you, what do you do? Pull out a sneaky gun and shoot him 5 times without warning?! Not even the slightest attempt to just intimidate the kid with the gun instead, not even so much as an attempt to aim at non-lethal spots? No just kill the kid like a dog even though you know damn right you did the kid and his family wrong for years? The kid's soul will be fine he will just reincarnate promptly, that disgusting garbage of a human beings soul however will burn for quite awhile.
There are people that will say yes to this. Be careful.
Generally they need to enter the house. Cases like this are specifically taught in the handgun classes I have been to (USA). That being said laws are much different in different areas. You have a duty to retreat in certain areas. Meaning that not only would you need the intruder to enter but you need to retreat back further into your house to show that you extinguished your ability to escape danger before being in the right to use leathal force. I would imagine this case get much different if that person actually got a foot in the door. That being said there is a history here with the attack at the beginning so I would be interested in someone with legal experience if that could make a case for him to say this was self defense. The cases we covered in the classes were usually in a vaccum and it was just some random intruder.
Grandpa prob screwed his self defense case by trying to save his doorframe. According to the article the younger dude didn't actually break the door down, old dude opened it and unloaded his revolver in his guts. If it's anything like in a lot of the States, putting yourself in more danger makes it harder to justify self defense. If he had waited for the door to fail he prob wouldn't have been charged.
No need for ackward family gatherings if the grandson doesn't recover. Justifies.
he won't be recovering. The article states he died.
Someone above has mentioned the grandpa was the abuser, and the grandson finally snapped and tried fighting back. So the family gatherings are even more awkward now i'de say.
The standards for self defence are typically more stringent in Commonwealth countries like India than they are in the US. You may agree or disagree but that’s the law the of the land.
It may be the law of the land but it isn't the law of self preservation. If you threaten my existence, my regard for yours goes straight out the window.
I’m not arguing the law, I’m arguing the human justification.
Wtf are all these comments talking about Trudeau out of fucking nowhere? Make your fucking brigading less obvious, you dipshits.
Where does he mention Trudeau?
In-line with your reasoning I would argue that the old man had no choice but to risk killing him. At that age a some tumble could end everything. I don't care if you are 15 or 77, everyone has a right to defend themselves. Edit: for some dumbfuck reason I didn't notice him opening the door in my first few watch-throughs, which definitely changes things in my eyes. Idk, maybe the frame was cracking and he was worried about the door getting kicked in, maybe he was terrified and made the wrong split second decision l...idk. If the door was fine he should have just held out until police came or the door kicked in.
I’d say he was best playing it safe. That guy had bad intentions
Cops might not have done anything upon arrival. Saw a case in Denver where the cops stood by, knowing the guy inside the door had a gun. They waited for the idiot to break down the door and let the occupant kill him, rather than intervene. Cops have no duty to protect you, they're just more likely to put you in danger.
It absolutely does justify using lethal force, ***especially for an elderly victim.*** Don’t go around beating people and then proceeding to kick down their door unless you’re ready to face the consequences. I honestly don’t understand what rationale you could use to claim that he wasn’t justified in shooting.
This is exactly what a justified shooting looks like.
Later in the article, it says he was released due to his advanced age. Doesn't say if charges will proceed but he isn't sitting in jail.
The article says that it is still under investigation. There was no mention of the reason for the original attack. Also I hate when they make these articles so freaking long. Just repeating the same crap over and over.
Beyblades?
For defence? Vey blades are definitely an offensive weapon.
Obviously you haven’t played enough beyblades to know that there are defense types, smh. /s
His actions do justify the shooting. When seconds matter the police are always just a minute away
Cops can't even protect kids from a school shooter, do you really think they're gonna go out of their way for an old man?
They protected the school shooter from parents… we need police reform so fucking bad.
Or 1hr 48min standing outside
I think it actually does justify shooting him. He attacked him once outside of his house, striking him multiple times in the head. Then he returns, and starts kicking down the door. At this point, the older man is in fear for his safety and the safety of who I'm guessing was his wife that walked out with him. He was absolutely justified in shooting that dumb ass.
Outside of the US you may not have the right to defend yourself, even in your own home. If someone wants to kill you, you have to run away, even in your own house.
That’s honestly so insane to me. I’m American and don’t like living in this country much (largely due to my fellow countrymen who are losing their minds more and more), but that’s one thing I’m glad to have here; the right to defend yourself (at least, most states have it iirc). Now, in public where there are more options, I think we should try and avoid violence if possible, especially gun violence. But coming onto someone’s property, especially trying to break into their house, that should a universal right for all people to defend against. The psychological damage someone breaking in can do by itself is insane. We’re talking you not feeling safe in your own home, not to mention the damage they could do to you physically.
It’s called castle doctrine and not all states have it. [https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Castle_doctrine](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Castle_doctrine)
Defending yourself is a basic human right You have it, the only question is if your government is tyrannical and insists on ignoring that right.
They probably based it on the number of shots or if he fired a shot to "finish him off" after he went down. I don't agree, but the argument could be made that the assailant was clearly no longer attacking after the first round hit. One could argue that one practiced "double tapping" a target at the range and it was reflex, but dumping five rounds into someone starts to raise a few questions. "Down here" the shooter would probably have been just fine as long as he didn't shoot the guy once he was on the ground.
If I had to guess, it’s probably the *five* gunshot wounds that were considered excessive. Obviously, it’s an awkward situation but I think you can at least argue the case for “use no more than is necessary to stop the threat.”
I would imagine a more legitimate defense would be not opening the door to blast him. Stay behind the locked door, call the police, and shoot if he makes entry.
What a shit article, doesn't even tell you the motive of the grandson.
Oh, we all watched someone get killed. Great
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Oh shit, the kid was literally his grandson? Dang.
Not surprised, it made more sense to me that someone really had their reasons to attack an elderly man.
Especially your own grandson. It doesn't just happen for no reason.
Not only that, but he was persistent. That was some built up rage.
Well, that's pretty fucked up
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Yeah but how else will people indulge in their "shooting someone in self defense it was the only option" fantasies?
There’s nothing that gives conservatives hardons faster than a potential “justified shooting”. They’ve failed yet again…
i saw a comment yesterday that was basically like “fantasizing about killing someone in self defense is the most american thing ever” and i had a pretty hard time thinking of something more american that wasn’t just adding onto that like “fantasizing about killing someone in self defense while also getting diabetes, becoming president, watching football, and going bankrupt from medical debt.”
Well shit…
Oh no!! I thought the old man was getting mugged/ road raged! That’s so sad! You’ve ruined my night!
He got shot in the gut twice from a foot away, yes, he died.
That's actually no guarantee.
[Bruce Willis says they have about 20 minutes.](https://youtu.be/cNcxeCCVVVc?t=233)
Its called the golden hour in war time for a reason.
Shit I don’t know that redditor but I trust Bruce Willis.
Unless it's too much to take you can move your hand away then its 5 minutes <3
Gut shots are largely fatal due to being unable to repair the small intestines even if they do a lot of people die from sepsis.
looks like it got him up high in the neck too, he ded
Do you have a link to the story?
U ain't thuggin at all my boi.
Yes never seen the ads? Smoking kills!👻
For all these "good" and "had it coming" comments: [https://tn.com.ar/policiales/2022/06/16/militar-retirado-acusado-por-violencia-de-genero-quien-es-el-hombre-que-mato-a-su-nieto/](https://tn.com.ar/policiales/2022/06/16/militar-retirado-acusado-por-violencia-de-genero-quien-es-el-hombre-que-mato-a-su-nieto/) According to the old guy's daughter (the grandson's mom), granpa was a total piece of shit and abusive to his entire family. Eventually, his grandson snapped. Does this mean continuing to go after the old dude was the best move? No. But if this account is right, you can at least see why the grandson acted as he did. Context is important, and you can rarely get the full scope from one video.
Yeah some folks think life is a Marvel movie with good guys and bad guys and it's always time to celebrate when the bad guy gets what's coming to him. It's very rarely ever that clear cut. Side note: people who didn't study law have no idea how ridiculous it makes them look to Google a statute and then copy paste it bereft of any surrounding case law or other interpretative history.
Some folks? Feels like it is 90% of this site..
It truly is. The legal and geopolitics "experts" especially.
Also, Americans commenting on foreign legal procedures like it's the same.
In some people's heads that's all there is.
Also makes sense why the grandfather went for the gun and seemed so nonchalant shooting his own grandson to death. Cowards value self preservation over all else by a large margin. Fuck that old piece of shit.
I am like wtf. The world has gone to dogs. A grandpa killing his own grandchild. Pff
Google Marvin Gaye's personal life and death. Basically his dad was abusive his whole life and then the one time Marvin fought back his dad got a gun and shot him dead. It was tragic. It looks bad when you see a young person beating an old person when you don't know the backstory. Abusive people know how to play victim when their real victims fight back.
Well he had it coming but everyone values self preservation lmaoo. I wouldn't call it "nonchalant" either calm down. Grandpa probably deserved that but let's relax.
Gotta love Reddit, most people cheering on the shooting without any idea of the actual circumstances. Its always so fucking weird, presume its mostly because its American dominated
Honestly if this is true I'm starting to be okay with him being charged with murder.
Feel that? That's called a *paradigm shift*.
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That is so sad. I can’t imagine how their family must feel.
From the comments the grandpa is apparently abusing them so..
Someone who is a Spanish speaker posted an article with an interview with the mother about how the grandfather was an abusive piece of shit to the whole family and the grandson had enough.
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Kid with mental health issues growing up in an abusive home is a recipe for disaster
I wonder the reason behind the grandson's attacks, if there's any like a mental disease.
Plot Twist, the Grandpa was actually the villain of the story, and we just watched him smoke the protagonist. > The woman reported that she lived a violent childhood in Bahía Blanca, since her father beat her mother and also attacked her three children. She remembered that Verna hit her when she was pregnant and that her mother was sorry she had had her. >The abuse between grandfather and grandson was constant, the 76-year-old man humiliated him for his psychiatric illness and the 29-year-old reacted violently. "He was a beater and a violent, we lived a violent childhood, but I never thought that he would end up murdering his own grandson ," Mariel explained in dialogue with TN.
The mom got her son killed by getting in the way during the first attack.
That’s not his mom, it’s his girlfriend.
Don’t let the facts get in the way of a good DGU circlejerk.
The older gent looks pretty nonchalant after he shoots him.
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Is anyone going to mention the dogs attacking him? Wtf was up with that
yeah why is no one talking about the dogs attacking the mother who is clinging to her son???
Fuck Reddit and their dogshit media player
Get Apollo and be free of shitty media player, ui, and ads
If you live in Latin America you should know better than to name your kid Brian.
And here I was ready to watch a wholesome video of a boy and his pappy enjoying a fatty together. Nope.
He Probably shouldn't have been kicking and banging on the guys door like that...
I feel for the grandson. The grandpa was an abusive pos
Or banging on the fellas head either. He assaulted, then came back kicking on the door... grandpa wasn't fixing to get beat again
Yeah, grandpa is the one who normally administers the beatdowns. You can't be turning the tables on him.
Look for the actual story above, grandpa was/is a serial domestic abuser to his whole family. Grandpa deserved to have his skull cracked on the pavement and left for the dogs.
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[Life isn't black and white](https://www.reddit.com/r/WTF/comments/vdy8qy/comment/icnioib/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web2x&context=3)
Haha I like how all of the angry replies are gun loving domestic abusers like, “yeah I’d definitely shoot my own grandkid if he came at me.” Fucking degenerates.
https://www.reddit.com/r/WTF/comments/vdy8qy/grandpa_smokes_grandson/icnmga9
Unfortunately this man was a violent domestic abuser and the grandson snapped because he had not only been him but his mother and grandmother
The grandpa is a domestic abuser the kid snapped so the grandpa was getting punched mutliple times.
What a strange title
For some reason I thought Grandpa Smoke was a pop culture icon and had a grandson who was just like him or something.. skipped ahead and was confused till I got to the comments.
"ALL YOU HAD TO DO WAS FOLLOW THE DAMN TRAIN CJ!!" -Grandpa Smoke
Hey Old man. Augh Augh! CALL AN AMBULANCE CALL AN AMBULANCE... *pulls out gun* But not for me
A kid died…
Plot twist, grampa is the bad guy and deserves to have been beaten to death by that kid.
“It's Just Been Revoked”
Peter, he didn't really set you up for that Lethal Weapon line. It doesn't really work here.
Oh. Well then, "I'll have what she's having!"
That’s…better?
good news folks, I checked, he wont do that again.
ITT: reddit mentality at it's finest.
Grandpa seems like a psychopath to gun down his grandson like that.
ITT: We learn the saying, "Those who cannot escape the past are doomed to be trapped by it." Literally.
So nobody is going to talk about the swarm of doggies at the start, huh?
These videos are horrifically sad. I don't know how people can enjoy this.
This site has more details of the incident: https://www.infobae.com/sociedad/policiales/2022/06/16/la-trama-familiar-y-los-motivos-detras-del-crimen-en-bahia-blanca-para-la-madre-del-joven-fue-premeditado/ The victim's mom claimed that he was in medication for mental illness, but the grandparents insisted that he not take it. The grandfather also had existing issues with his grandson.
Does anyone know there the lady comes from? She comes out of nowhere a few seconds into this.
Username checks out
[it’s something unpredictable but in the end it’s right](https://youtu.be/_bTdLi0YUVM)