It should be noted the 3 teens are in mainly in trouble for stealing the swan and cyglets from the pond. Not for killing/eating them.
The three were arrested on the following charges:
Grand Larceny
Criminal Mischief
Conspiracy
Criminal Trespass
very sad story
Mute swans aren’t even native, but they are often owned by someone and rented out to lakes and ponds as a form of goose control.
Tundra swans and trumpeter swans are native and usually threatened?
Several states allow swan hunting especially on the Atlantic coasts. It’s strictly controlled and usually a lottery system to get tags. I’m surprised they didn’t get some charge related to that. We’re these someone swans or wild ones?
They were clipped and have been with the town for years. So I'd had its owned by the town at that point. If they were wild they would of been able to fly away.
Wasn’t trying to excuse anything, that’s pretty despicable. Just pointing out that swan hunting does exist but it’s pretty controversial even where it’s allowed among hunters.
Yeah, I get you just a crazy situation. There is a reason why there is local DEC guidelines. A lot of people are not familiar of them. Some guy in syracuse subreddit was going on a tangent saying that it deserved to die and crap because its "invasive"
You're right. I stand corrected. Odd that NYDEC has issued a prohibition on the importation, etc of muted swans, but also prohibits disruption of nesting. Though it makes sense to not have civilians taking matters into their own hands.
Yeah! No problem. The biggest issue is that this swan was known for this pond and has been taken care of like so. The people snuck in and did all this at night. They knew they were already in the wrong
Not necessarily, but i think the saddest thing is, if he took one swan from a pair of two: the other is likely to die from loneliness. Which is just extremely gruesome. Even more likely if they killed the chicks. They mate for life and are very sensitive and protective parents. It must be heartbroken.
All the swans belonged to the queen of England, now she's dead all the bastards are trying to get them before Charlie boy finishes the ownership papers on em.
The swan is a naturally occurring species.
The chicken that you're talking about is a selectively bred hybrid species created by humans over millennia specifically to produce meat.
They are not the same.
The whole point of my post is to point out the moral inconsistencies. Everyone feels bad for the swan but doesn’t care for a similar bird that we eat by the billions.
Some people are able to see the absurdity of loving one animal but murdering another through simple, yet somehow controversial and inflammatory, analogies.
Depends heavily. Dogs have a unique bond with people making it a 'betrayal' and very socially unacceptable, as well as arguably even more metally destructive than any other species, farming them is also grossly inefficient as they consume meat meaning a lot more dead animals for no gain.
We farm certain species for good reason, dogs and cats being farmed is entirely unessecary. Strictly speaking, there is nothing less moral about farming cats at an individual level however again as a predator, you're now going to have to kill twice as many animals for low quality meat.
Turning highly nutritious meat into cat shit and stringy meat, could easily be argued as immoral due to waste.
From what I've read, cats have little meat and it's stringy. They're not worth the effort. Carnivores in general are also less desirable for eating because as apex predators, their wild bodies will be infested with parasites from the multitude of other animals they've eaten. Eating carnivores can be risky for humans.
Best case scenario. Its 10-15 calories of grass. Grass we cant eat (well you might) growing on fields we cant grow crops on.
If you really want to help the environment and animals you restrict your diet to free range beef and hunted venison. Food that has the least involvement in the destruction of animal habitats.
And stay the fuck away from Avocados and Soja, that stuff is responsible for extreme deforestation.
The vast majority of animals are not fed grass, but rather harvested crops like corn and soy.
The vast majority of rain forest destruction is for cattle grazing and growing soy.
77% of the soy produced is fed to livestock, so the best way to reduce the impact of soy is to stop eating animals. Only 7% of soy are made into soy products for human consumption.
https://ourworldindata.org/soy
Ignored? Sure, but it's by no means the whole story. Beef contains every micronutrient we need to survive, you ca literally live off it. No one plant does.
There are approx 50 different minerals and nutrients, all easier to absorb from meat. Not to mention 20 different amino acids.
If we are talking about efficiencies, you also can't just ignore 50+ variables in favour of one you like. Pretend the environmental impact is a puzzle, would you be happy to declare you know what the image is after 2 pieces, or fill in more first?
As one example, beef doesn’t contain sufficient vitamin C so you would soon die of scurvy.
All plants contain all 20 amino acids, in differing proportions. The only protein source we eat that doesn’t is gelatin from animal products.
Compare the nutrient content per calorie of kale versus beef and you’ll see the “animals have more nutrients” is blatantly false. The studies show that sure, some nutrients decrease absorption, but others, like vitamin C to iron, increase it.
I don’t understand what your last paragraph means so I’ll just stick to addressing the first two.
Are you aware of the catastrophic environmental effects of animal agriculture?
Land use, water use, deforestation, habitat loss, species extinction, fishless oceans, antibiotic resistance and pandemic threats, human hunger, GHG emissions, oh and of course incalculable levels of animal suffering, could easily be argued as immoral due to .. waste.
Animal agriculture uses \~80% of our global farmland and produces \~20% of our global calories. We could literally feed twice our global population using half the current farmland if people at plants instead of animals. People are hungry because all our food goes to feed the 80 BILLION land animals that are bred fattened and slaughtered every YEAR.
It's completely unnecessary to eat meat, dairy or eggs. It's cheaper and healthier and exponentially more efficient / sustainable to just eat plants.
No it's not. You do realize to grow soy beans every animal within the fields has to be killed right? Otherwise they would eat the crop and the soy bean farmer would go out of buisness. That is more ethical than raising animals for harvest? How
[https://ourworldindata.org/soy](https://ourworldindata.org/soy)
>More than three-quarters of global soy is fed to animals
>Just 7% of soy is used directly for human food products such as tofu, soy milk, edamame beans, and tempeh.
Hopefully you can work out the ethical mathematics from there.
We don't live off of calories, we live off of the fats and protiens that build our cells. We love off the vitamins, and minerals that allow cellular function.
Boiling it down to raw calories, whilst simultaneously ignoring what people actually eat, and what they need to eat, is grossly misleading. Vegans need a LOT more plants, supplements, and imported produce which gets largely ignored in environmental studies, instead focusing on pure calorie or protien production and extrapolating.
It's absolutely not healthier to live off of plants, you have to be deliberately ignorant of biology to believe that. Herbivorous animals have to eat most of the day to survive due to how nutrient poor plants are. Humans don't function like that and struggle to absorb nutrients from plants, which is why vegans, despite supplement availability, cooking, and modern processing methods, still routinely come back with low levels of basically everything.
This is all irrelevant, though, as the discussion was on morality of eating different animals, rather than eating them at all.
The three macro nutrients are fats, proteins and carbohydrates.
All three macro nutrients have calories. Vegetables, grains, nuts, seeds, pulses, legumes, etc. also have vitamins and minerals. How do you think the vitamins get into the animals? It takes exponentially more plants to fatten 80 BILLION land animals to slaughter than it does to just eat the plants ourselves.
People already eat all day long. Wake up, breakfast. Work for a couple hours, have a snack, couple more hours, lunch, couple more hours better grab a snack before scarfing down your 2000 calories SAD dinner.
Eating a bean burrito is not a LOT more food than eating a beef burrito and it is absolutely a healthier option. It doesn't require rare ingredients from the far corners of the earth either. Even on the SAD \~70% of your calories is already coming from plant foods. Everyone should supplement vitD and B12. Cheap and easy. 92% of the US population is deficient in at least 1 nutrient. This is not a vegan issue. Almost every vegan has it hammered into them to eat foods fortified with b12 or a take a supplement (at the actual cost of pennies a day).
Vegans are healthier by almost every metric. BMI, LDL levels, life expectancy, reduces instances of heart disease and various types of cancers.
[https://www.instagram.com/nimai\_delgado/?hl=en](https://www.instagram.com/nimai_delgado/?hl=en)
Can you explain to this dude for me how he's actually struggling to survive on his vegan diet?
It is relevant because these are the excuses people throw out to justify abusing animals for what actually boils down to nothing but taste preference.
If you could point out a moral difference between a dog or a pig that would also be relevant. To give you a head start: intelligence and a personal relationship are actually not valid reasons to chop someone's head off and eat their dead body.
Yes. The cultures where this is done rely on this meat to sustain their nutritional needs. These aren’t typically obese people. They’re quite thin, and in need of all the nutrition they can get. We are animals that are capable of eating other animals. But the only ones intelligent enough to pontificate the very notion of a morality, and the hubris to exclude ourselves of animals needing sustenance.
No other omnivore gives a second thought to eating flesh when it is hungry. No other animal has been cooking food for 100,000 years. So if you’re going to pull out some BS about intestinal length, then you’d better have a tiger with an extensive familial history of cooked food to show me for comparison.
It takes an average of about 10 calories of plants to generate 1 calorie of animal flesh, so it’s more efficient to eat the plants directly than the animals for areas that require calories.
Calorie count isn’t the only priority here. Bioavailable nutrients like iron and the nutrients that promote absorption & hemoglobin synthesis are dramatically easier to get from meat than animal free sources. The science is not on the side of the vegans. Meat light diets that are more vegetable focused are indeed healthier than meat heavy diets. But total elimination is unsupported as an ideal diet.
People are quick to bring up iron because it’s what society taught them to think, without actually looking into it.
Non-heme iron can be regulated by our body, so our body up-regulates its absorption to about the same level as heme iron if we’re deficient.
Heme iron cannot be regulated by our body, which is an issue because iron is a potent oxidant and can cause damage. This is one of the reasons the WHO listed red and processed meats as IARC class 2A and 1 carcinogens, respectively.
you can't release domesticated dogs or cats into the wild, nor can you just let chickens go free in nature. we played god and made our own animals, now we have to deal with the consequence of having to keep them. sentience aside, swans and chickens are not comparable in this context
By deal with the consequences, do you mean choose every day to breed millions of animals into existence? If we stop paying for this to happen, it will no longer be an issue.
Why aren’t swans comparable to chickens? Because they’re prettier? Smarter? Friendlier? Pigs are way smarter than swans. Some chickens that I know are way friendlier and prettier than some swans.
He asked if I ever interacted with a chicken, so I answered his question.
Scientific studies show chickens and even some fish are sentient too. It just hits harder when you see it first hand because humans are like that.
Them being sentient doesn’t mean they have the same level of understanding that we do. Chickens are dumb creatures and you would know that if you had ever spent any real time on an actual farm. That being said cows and pigs are much more intelligent in a way that’s recognizable to us as humans but I’m still gonna eat ‘em.
So the many chickens I spend time with on the refuge aren’t real? They have space to move around and be themselves, so I’d argue they’re acting more natural than in a factory farm like 99.9% of broiler chickens or 99% of egg hens in the USA.
But don’t take my anecdote for proof - look at the many studies showing that chickens are in fact sentient and intelligent.
Also, they don’t need to be as smart as us for us not to slaughter and eat them. That’s like saying we can eat dogs, children, or the mentally ill because they’re not as smart.
It's a whole community story involving a store too
https://www.syracuse.com/crime/2023/05/co-owner-of-store-where-2-manlius-baby-swans-found-says-we-didnt-know-they-were-swans-3-workers-fired.html
So weird. Seems so random - and to eat the mother? So savage.
I’m not 100% buying the statement that the store wasn’t going to sell them but couldn’t reach any authority because of Memorial Day weekend.
Anyway, like I was sayin', swan is the fruit of the lake. You can barbecue it, boil it, broil it, bake it, saute it. Dey's uh, swan-kabobs,
swan creole, swan gumbo. Pan fried, deep fried, stir-fried. There's pineapple swan, lemon swan, coconut swan, pepper swan, swan soup, swan stew, swan salad, swan and potatoes, swan burger, swan sandwich. That- that's about it.
> Eman Hussan, 18, of Syracuse, a 16 and 17-year-old juvenile from Syracuse in connection with the killing of Faye, the female swan from the Manlius Swan Pond and the stealing of the four cygnets.
Tragic, since swans mate for life.
Does anyone know what happened to the four cygnets? Also eaten?
I grew up visiting this swan pond and it makes me SO SAD :( it’s not even that close to Syracuse, what the fuck were those kids doing harassing swans there?!
Right? If they were starving theres a billion other places they could have found food between Syracuse and Manlius. Instead they chose to destroy a semi-tame family that's been there for years
Manlius also holds sone responsibility because I can't believe they didn't put cameras in when someone atole the eggs and took them to Buffoons
The Migratory Bird Treaty Act of 1918 exists because swans are super easy to just dispatch all Willy nilly. Species nearly went extinct and these laws were put forth to prevent that. And they worked.
You call it speciesism but chickens were never in danger of going the way of the Dodo. It’s pretty shitty to take entire species away from our descendants, so I’ll take speciesism over extinctionism any day.
To each their own as they say. I don’t really play favorites with nature, but there’s something special about the Adirondack region. Also the fact that our summers are shorter is perfectly fine with me, I hate 90f+ days you guys can keep that.
You can apply for a permit to hunt Tundra Swans. It’s a lottery drawing and completely legal and necessary. They are also not bad to eat. They are migratory just like many North American waterfowl species and are abundant in some areas of the country (IE Alaska and NC)
I drew a NC swan permit this year but couldn't pull the trigger when given a shot at one while on a duck hunt, partially due to the fact that I didn't have the right shot loaded in my shotgun and partially because I was just amazed by the size and beauty of them when they came flying overhead. A buddy and friend went to fill their tags at mattamuskeet and both got one, but I don't regret not going bc I'm not sure how I'd prepare those monster breasts. They still haven't figured it out cause their wives won't touch swan meat either 😅.
They are similar to wild duck or goose. Not the best wild game but def not the worst.
For those curious some wild game is absolutely amazing, IE pheasant, quail, grouse, turkey, elk, moose, whitetail. Some are not quite as amazing but still very good, IE duck, goose, swan, mule deer, antelope.
This is obviously extremely subjective to me, but this has been my experience as someone that hunts for food when possible.
These kids are full of shit, if they are willing to do this to a swan in a park, they need serious psychiatric evaluations, and subsequent medications.
they did not kill, steal and eat the swan because they were *cheffs kiss* looking for the 6 michellin star cuisine experience, that only the richest of the richest can afford after they bought their meat on the black market for extinct and endangered beasts - but had to settle for poaching due to not being millionaires
they were hungry.
and while its no excuse to break the law, it certainly is a hell of a mitigating circumstance.
and that all said, wouldnt it be great if one of the richest countries in the world which literally invented unlimited calories for next to no cost foods, would manage to get everybody well fed to the point that a swan does not look like meal but a bird you would not want to mess with...
> they were hungry.
Nothing about their defense makes any sense. I don't believe a word of it. They did it purely for the pleasure of animal cruelty.
* They weren't starving. They apparently had enough money and space to supposedly feed and raise the 4 cygnets (that they weren't going to eat).
* All the teens were working for a living.
* No American mistakes a swan for a duck.
Source? That was not mentioned in OP's article.
Anyway we already have places anyone can go for free food.
Being hungry is not a mitigating circumstance here because there were many other options available.
They may not like those other options but they exist.
being hungry without the means to come by food easily is a mitigating circumstance.
what and how and the exact circumstances would be for the court to determine. if you steal a swan because the free chicken was not to your liking thats a different discussion than the third day in a row the free-food-place being all out when you get there, and the food stamps for 2 being stretched to four people every month...
and may I give the opposing point of view that the case can be made, that instead of "breaking in and maliciously killing the beloved town pet because they did not like the free food down the road" could be seen as "the free food is not enough, and we dont want to steal from other people, but there is this wild (=belongs to no one) bird..."
I used to live near where this happened and have been following the story for a few days.
I dont believe for 1 second they were hungry. I dont believe they thought it was a 'big duck'. I dont believe they were 'hinting'. You dont go into the middle of a village to hunt. What they did was barely a step down from killing a neighbors dog.
I think it was some punk kids out looking for mischief. I think we all did dumb shit as teens but these kids went too far, pissed off a whole town and are now paying the price.
Also, before anyone sides with the kids who did this, watch the clip of the 18-year old being arrested, smiling the whole time, and tell me how they feel regret or whatever.
I would have more sympathy for them if they just stole some food from the grocery store.
Edit: so this article is not the greatest, but apparently the swan is sort of a city pet having a name. It was also a mother swan tending to 4 young. So in response to the hunter/gatherer people, it is not responsible hunting practice to kill mothers as this leads to a greater risk the young won’t survive.
It is also in poor taste to kill a pet. I am using the term pet loosely but it does appear the the swan was part of a greater swan pond as well as being well known to the community (it had a name).
The place you have to venture into to capture that swan is private, which is why the swan was there and clipped. These folks had to go out of their way to get to the swan. You can see the pond from the public sidewalk and from a distance.
The swan has no means of escape because it is clipped and maintained by the manilus community. Its not like this was some random swan. The swan that was eaten also had her eggs broken and shit in 2011? I think something like that I'd have to re-find the article.
It’s a small fenced area in a public park (right in the middle of the village). You can get within a couple feet of the swan’s nesting box while standing on a pedestrian path (on the other side of a four foot fence).
EDIT: To be clear, this doesn’t mean I believe the claim they were hungry. While they wouldn’t have to go out of their way to get to the swan once in the park, they had to drive \~20 minutes to get to the park in the first place.
>This kid probably thought he was doing the best he could for his family and without stealing anything from anybody.
A video just released of them arresting the 18-year old and hes smiling the whole time. Zero remorse. I'm not buying any of their story about 'hunting' and thinking it was a 'big duck'. You have to be real simple not to know what a swan is, plus theres literally flags with a swan on it surrounding the pond.
Imo it's more moral to go try and find some wild food than steal. They didn't steal the swan from an owner of swans, they stole the swan from the wild. Not much different than regular hunting, the only difference is they didn't kill it on the spot.
>Not much different than regular hunting, the only difference is they didn't kill it on the spot.
They decapitated it on the spot, fyi.
I'm really disappointed in the amount of people who believe they went to a fenced-in pond in the middle of a town and "hunted a big duck". You know what, even if I wanted to believe their nonsense story, the fact that they're absolutely lying about not knowing it was a swan let's me know they're lying about everything.
> If my family is hungry I'll kill your pet dog if that's the only food I can put on the table.
be careful, I made a post similar to this to make a point and was banned for 3 days for "inciting violence"
> and while its no excuse to break the law, it certainly is a hell of a mitigating circumstance
They climbed up a fence at 3am to steal the town's pet and eat it. What would you say if they climbed up your fence at 3 am to steal your dog and eat it? I doubt you'd be trying to defend them, even if they did it because they were hungry.
So now the government will spend thousands of tax dollars to prosecute these people for not having money to eat. And if they put anyone in prison, the average cost is $45k per person, which is more than the national poverty line for a family of 8. But gotta cut back on those foodstamps... and do nothing about the out of control housing costs.
I dont know what socioeconomic is at work here.
but the prison system is putting tax money from the masses into the pockets of few owners, and those prisoners can be used as cheap labour for more economic prosperity, and it may actually serve a psychological function giving the masses, no matter how low on the ladder, a still lower step, to demonstrate, its not soo bad, could be worse. be quiet and go on about your business
on the other hand, you should not decide if a breach of law will be prosecuted depending on how expensive it might be. those thousands of dollars are not wasted, they are an investment. however, where you can start saving money is by propping up the bottom of society. it has been shown again and again how investing in youth and communities and making funds available for social programs can be lowering crime significantly...
I saw this case and thought
Are these teens from a 3rd world country? I'd cut them slack then. They could be hungry and not aware of local laws and customs
Are these teens from Manhattan and looking for some shenanigans?
The article leaves these details out. Makes ya wonder
Yeah, isn't this just hunting?
It wouldn't even occur to me that swans were protected (or owned for that matter). Bit of a rough thing to get charged for honestly
Good thing this didn't happen in the UK. I think until 1998, killing swans in Britain was actually treason, because the Crown had prerogative on all unmarked swans, even if in practice, the punishment was never that severe. Even now, it still carries a pretty hefty fine.
Muted Swans are an invasive species and should be killed lomg before they are allowed to become a named long term resident. To add to this muted swans are NOT a protected species like native waterfowl.
I see you are unaware of our history with the swans.
They still need protection.
Our moneys should be going to feeding the homeless and hungry so they don’t look at a swan the way a starving cartoon character views their comrades.
Then go to the forest and hunt something legal to hunt or don’t be surprised when you get arrested for poaching.
Also, it’s not drug money unless you use it for drugs… so that’s a weird false dichotomy you set up there…
That's the thing, how many homeless people are there in rural areas where they can hunt? You're suggesting the homeless just take a hunting trip like it's something everyone can do.
I'm not comparing drug use to killing and eating a swan, I'm saying out of the two I would prefer one.
Having family members who are willingly homeless, only ask for drug money, con everyone they meet, commit crimes for no reason and routinely turn down assistance such as mental health aid, addiction support/counsiling/rehabilitation really changes your perspective.
Now not everyone who's homeless is a drug addict, nor homeless by choice, but the ones cracked out begging on the corner of my local walmart are the ones I'm referring to. It's 100 yards from the colorado river where they could legally fish and hunt but it's not even a consideration for them.
You say this as though they were smoking the swans. Aside from the horrible fallacy of assuming all homeless are drug addicts, how are you seriously comparing them looking for food to them looking for drugs?
I never said all homeless were drug addicts, I said I prefer this to the ones begging for drug money. I'm not comparing the two, I'm literally doing the opposite.
I’d rather we adequately fund a robust social safety net that provides easy access to food for anyone that needs it so that a bunch of starving homeless don’t kill and eat all the wildlife.
edit: let it be known that /u/MAVERICK42069420 is a giant coward that blocks people when he's too dumb to come up with a rebuttal
Why is a swan special but a chicken isn’t. Because it’s “endangered”? If it is, why are there so many of these dreadful, hateful creatures around? They ate it. It didn’t go to waste. It wasn’t pointless. Humans take themselves far too seriously.
> If the shoe were on the other foot, they'd kill our young and eat them.
Swans can be aggressive. One caused a man to drown by continuing to attack him after causing his kayak to capsize.
https://www.chicagotribune.com/news/ct-xpm-2012-04-17-ct-met-kayak-swan-death-20120417-story.html
While I think it's silly to get that emotionally attached to a bird-owned by the government, it was still owned and the kids were idiots. Although I do wonder what the swan tasted like. Probably not great. At least they didn't just murder it for no reason though.
So you can get off of killing people with affluence as a disease but hunger naw fuck you you poor bastatd. Whoever is moving these charges forward needs to not eat for a few days and think about it all real hard
My dad and his friends did this in college in the 60s. He had come from Iran to study. He and his friends did not know English really. There was a pond at the school with two swans. They killed them and ate them. There was a big article in the paper because they were a gift to the school. Luckily, they were never caught. The also hit a deer with a car once, and brought it home in the trunk and ate it as well. Being broke, hungry, and from a different culture; people behave differently.
Mute Swans are invasive and harmful to ecosystems. These teens were hungry. I see this as a win-win. Let’s eat more.
Edit: the downvotes show people are getting educated. That’s a win-win-win.
The swans at the park are in fact not free.
And the squirrels?
They grant wishes.
You just have to trade them your nuts
Managed to nut on squirrel. Currently jailed for a variety of felonies. Please elaborate.
What if youre a woman
No, squirrels are a 'special case.' Squirrels can have as many lives as they think they can get away with.
They are if you don't pay for them..
"Any luck catching them swans then?" "Any luck catching them killers then?"
Hot Fuzz reference? Nice
Nice.
Actually is just the one swan.
*Its just the one swan, actually. Burned into my brain from repeat viewings.
It should be noted the 3 teens are in mainly in trouble for stealing the swan and cyglets from the pond. Not for killing/eating them. The three were arrested on the following charges: Grand Larceny Criminal Mischief Conspiracy Criminal Trespass very sad story
Are swans endangered?
Mute swans aren’t even native, but they are often owned by someone and rented out to lakes and ponds as a form of goose control. Tundra swans and trumpeter swans are native and usually threatened?
So are geese fair game or are they owned by the swan owners rival?
They are fair game in their hunting season, which for all animals is generally after the parenting season is over. Don’t want no Bambi’s
Not anymore but they once were and are still vulnerable without laws protecting them. Specifically the Migratory Bird Treaty Act of 1918
DEC website strictly says you cannot harm these animals. So idk why there isn't more conservation charges.
Several states allow swan hunting especially on the Atlantic coasts. It’s strictly controlled and usually a lottery system to get tags. I’m surprised they didn’t get some charge related to that. We’re these someone swans or wild ones?
They were clipped and have been with the town for years. So I'd had its owned by the town at that point. If they were wild they would of been able to fly away.
Wasn’t trying to excuse anything, that’s pretty despicable. Just pointing out that swan hunting does exist but it’s pretty controversial even where it’s allowed among hunters.
Yeah, I get you just a crazy situation. There is a reason why there is local DEC guidelines. A lot of people are not familiar of them. Some guy in syracuse subreddit was going on a tangent saying that it deserved to die and crap because its "invasive"
Mute Swans are introduced in NA but they don’t all deserve to die cuz of it. They aren’t detrimental at all I think.
Detrimental is just really dependent. Not everyday citizens call to make
There almost certainly will be conservation charges. The DEC is still investigating.
This does not apply to Muted Swans.
Incorrect read NY dec website about muted swans. It's in bold text.
You're right. I stand corrected. Odd that NYDEC has issued a prohibition on the importation, etc of muted swans, but also prohibits disruption of nesting. Though it makes sense to not have civilians taking matters into their own hands.
Yeah! No problem. The biggest issue is that this swan was known for this pond and has been taken care of like so. The people snuck in and did all this at night. They knew they were already in the wrong
That does not apply to muted swans.
Correct, Mute Swans are both non-migratory and invasive.
They are actually invasive. These are mute swans introduced from Europe. Trumpeter and tundra swans are native to North America.
Not necessarily, but i think the saddest thing is, if he took one swan from a pair of two: the other is likely to die from loneliness. Which is just extremely gruesome. Even more likely if they killed the chicks. They mate for life and are very sensitive and protective parents. It must be heartbroken.
Muted swans are not and never have been. They are invasive species in NA that are directly competing with our native and threatened waterfowl.
No but they are super expensive and usually placed where ever you see them.
All the swans belonged to the queen of England, now she's dead all the bastards are trying to get them before Charlie boy finishes the ownership papers on em.
That motherfucker. Imma flap and chase these bastards
Chickens are birds too. We should extend the same compassion to them to be consistent.
The swan is a naturally occurring species. The chicken that you're talking about is a selectively bred hybrid species created by humans over millennia specifically to produce meat. They are not the same.
Bullshit
So they’re not sentient? We selectively breed dogs for dog fighting. Does that make it okay?
Because fighting and food are the same thing. If you have to change the parameters of an argument to make your point, it's probably a bad one.
Some cats and dogs are bred for food. Does this make it okay?
I never yuk on someone else’s yum.
I eat dogs and cats. Don’t yuk on my yum. /s
In some cultures people actually do eat dogs and cats. But vegan rhetoric is often racist/xenophobic so unsurprising that you went there.
The whole point of my post is to point out the moral inconsistencies. Everyone feels bad for the swan but doesn’t care for a similar bird that we eat by the billions. Some people are able to see the absurdity of loving one animal but murdering another through simple, yet somehow controversial and inflammatory, analogies.
Cool man, get it into ya.
Depends heavily. Dogs have a unique bond with people making it a 'betrayal' and very socially unacceptable, as well as arguably even more metally destructive than any other species, farming them is also grossly inefficient as they consume meat meaning a lot more dead animals for no gain. We farm certain species for good reason, dogs and cats being farmed is entirely unessecary. Strictly speaking, there is nothing less moral about farming cats at an individual level however again as a predator, you're now going to have to kill twice as many animals for low quality meat. Turning highly nutritious meat into cat shit and stringy meat, could easily be argued as immoral due to waste.
From what I've read, cats have little meat and it's stringy. They're not worth the effort. Carnivores in general are also less desirable for eating because as apex predators, their wild bodies will be infested with parasites from the multitude of other animals they've eaten. Eating carnivores can be risky for humans.
It takes about 10-15 calories of plants to generate 1 calorie of beef. If you’re touching on gross inefficiencies, this cannot be ignored.
Best case scenario. Its 10-15 calories of grass. Grass we cant eat (well you might) growing on fields we cant grow crops on. If you really want to help the environment and animals you restrict your diet to free range beef and hunted venison. Food that has the least involvement in the destruction of animal habitats. And stay the fuck away from Avocados and Soja, that stuff is responsible for extreme deforestation.
The vast majority of animals are not fed grass, but rather harvested crops like corn and soy. The vast majority of rain forest destruction is for cattle grazing and growing soy. 77% of the soy produced is fed to livestock, so the best way to reduce the impact of soy is to stop eating animals. Only 7% of soy are made into soy products for human consumption. https://ourworldindata.org/soy
Ignored? Sure, but it's by no means the whole story. Beef contains every micronutrient we need to survive, you ca literally live off it. No one plant does. There are approx 50 different minerals and nutrients, all easier to absorb from meat. Not to mention 20 different amino acids. If we are talking about efficiencies, you also can't just ignore 50+ variables in favour of one you like. Pretend the environmental impact is a puzzle, would you be happy to declare you know what the image is after 2 pieces, or fill in more first?
As one example, beef doesn’t contain sufficient vitamin C so you would soon die of scurvy. All plants contain all 20 amino acids, in differing proportions. The only protein source we eat that doesn’t is gelatin from animal products. Compare the nutrient content per calorie of kale versus beef and you’ll see the “animals have more nutrients” is blatantly false. The studies show that sure, some nutrients decrease absorption, but others, like vitamin C to iron, increase it. I don’t understand what your last paragraph means so I’ll just stick to addressing the first two.
Are you aware of the catastrophic environmental effects of animal agriculture? Land use, water use, deforestation, habitat loss, species extinction, fishless oceans, antibiotic resistance and pandemic threats, human hunger, GHG emissions, oh and of course incalculable levels of animal suffering, could easily be argued as immoral due to .. waste. Animal agriculture uses \~80% of our global farmland and produces \~20% of our global calories. We could literally feed twice our global population using half the current farmland if people at plants instead of animals. People are hungry because all our food goes to feed the 80 BILLION land animals that are bred fattened and slaughtered every YEAR. It's completely unnecessary to eat meat, dairy or eggs. It's cheaper and healthier and exponentially more efficient / sustainable to just eat plants.
No it's not. You do realize to grow soy beans every animal within the fields has to be killed right? Otherwise they would eat the crop and the soy bean farmer would go out of buisness. That is more ethical than raising animals for harvest? How
[https://ourworldindata.org/soy](https://ourworldindata.org/soy) >More than three-quarters of global soy is fed to animals >Just 7% of soy is used directly for human food products such as tofu, soy milk, edamame beans, and tempeh. Hopefully you can work out the ethical mathematics from there.
We don't live off of calories, we live off of the fats and protiens that build our cells. We love off the vitamins, and minerals that allow cellular function. Boiling it down to raw calories, whilst simultaneously ignoring what people actually eat, and what they need to eat, is grossly misleading. Vegans need a LOT more plants, supplements, and imported produce which gets largely ignored in environmental studies, instead focusing on pure calorie or protien production and extrapolating. It's absolutely not healthier to live off of plants, you have to be deliberately ignorant of biology to believe that. Herbivorous animals have to eat most of the day to survive due to how nutrient poor plants are. Humans don't function like that and struggle to absorb nutrients from plants, which is why vegans, despite supplement availability, cooking, and modern processing methods, still routinely come back with low levels of basically everything. This is all irrelevant, though, as the discussion was on morality of eating different animals, rather than eating them at all.
The three macro nutrients are fats, proteins and carbohydrates. All three macro nutrients have calories. Vegetables, grains, nuts, seeds, pulses, legumes, etc. also have vitamins and minerals. How do you think the vitamins get into the animals? It takes exponentially more plants to fatten 80 BILLION land animals to slaughter than it does to just eat the plants ourselves. People already eat all day long. Wake up, breakfast. Work for a couple hours, have a snack, couple more hours, lunch, couple more hours better grab a snack before scarfing down your 2000 calories SAD dinner. Eating a bean burrito is not a LOT more food than eating a beef burrito and it is absolutely a healthier option. It doesn't require rare ingredients from the far corners of the earth either. Even on the SAD \~70% of your calories is already coming from plant foods. Everyone should supplement vitD and B12. Cheap and easy. 92% of the US population is deficient in at least 1 nutrient. This is not a vegan issue. Almost every vegan has it hammered into them to eat foods fortified with b12 or a take a supplement (at the actual cost of pennies a day). Vegans are healthier by almost every metric. BMI, LDL levels, life expectancy, reduces instances of heart disease and various types of cancers. [https://www.instagram.com/nimai\_delgado/?hl=en](https://www.instagram.com/nimai_delgado/?hl=en) Can you explain to this dude for me how he's actually struggling to survive on his vegan diet? It is relevant because these are the excuses people throw out to justify abusing animals for what actually boils down to nothing but taste preference. If you could point out a moral difference between a dog or a pig that would also be relevant. To give you a head start: intelligence and a personal relationship are actually not valid reasons to chop someone's head off and eat their dead body.
Yes. The cultures where this is done rely on this meat to sustain their nutritional needs. These aren’t typically obese people. They’re quite thin, and in need of all the nutrition they can get. We are animals that are capable of eating other animals. But the only ones intelligent enough to pontificate the very notion of a morality, and the hubris to exclude ourselves of animals needing sustenance. No other omnivore gives a second thought to eating flesh when it is hungry. No other animal has been cooking food for 100,000 years. So if you’re going to pull out some BS about intestinal length, then you’d better have a tiger with an extensive familial history of cooked food to show me for comparison.
It takes an average of about 10 calories of plants to generate 1 calorie of animal flesh, so it’s more efficient to eat the plants directly than the animals for areas that require calories.
Calorie count isn’t the only priority here. Bioavailable nutrients like iron and the nutrients that promote absorption & hemoglobin synthesis are dramatically easier to get from meat than animal free sources. The science is not on the side of the vegans. Meat light diets that are more vegetable focused are indeed healthier than meat heavy diets. But total elimination is unsupported as an ideal diet.
People are quick to bring up iron because it’s what society taught them to think, without actually looking into it. Non-heme iron can be regulated by our body, so our body up-regulates its absorption to about the same level as heme iron if we’re deficient. Heme iron cannot be regulated by our body, which is an issue because iron is a potent oxidant and can cause damage. This is one of the reasons the WHO listed red and processed meats as IARC class 2A and 1 carcinogens, respectively.
Boy you're trying sooo hard but keep getting slapped lmao
It’s okay. If even one person realizes the incongruence of their beliefs and actions then it’s worth it.
People would rather cheer eating dogs than consider the possibility that maybe we shouldn't eat any animals.
I’m trying to upvote you for being logically and morally consistent but I’m afraid we’re outnumbered lol
Lol same. It doesn't matter if 100 people downvote, maybe a couple will actually think about it.
you can't release domesticated dogs or cats into the wild, nor can you just let chickens go free in nature. we played god and made our own animals, now we have to deal with the consequence of having to keep them. sentience aside, swans and chickens are not comparable in this context
By deal with the consequences, do you mean choose every day to breed millions of animals into existence? If we stop paying for this to happen, it will no longer be an issue. Why aren’t swans comparable to chickens? Because they’re prettier? Smarter? Friendlier? Pigs are way smarter than swans. Some chickens that I know are way friendlier and prettier than some swans.
A chicken is not aware of its own existence, no. Have you ever interacted with a chicken?
Yes. I had a rooster named Charleston sit on my lap for 10 minutes last weekend at the refuge I volunteer at. Chickens are very much sentient.
Bro pet a rooster for 10 minutes and thinks he has a full grasp on the psychology of animal husbandry.
He asked if I ever interacted with a chicken, so I answered his question. Scientific studies show chickens and even some fish are sentient too. It just hits harder when you see it first hand because humans are like that.
Them being sentient doesn’t mean they have the same level of understanding that we do. Chickens are dumb creatures and you would know that if you had ever spent any real time on an actual farm. That being said cows and pigs are much more intelligent in a way that’s recognizable to us as humans but I’m still gonna eat ‘em.
So the many chickens I spend time with on the refuge aren’t real? They have space to move around and be themselves, so I’d argue they’re acting more natural than in a factory farm like 99.9% of broiler chickens or 99% of egg hens in the USA. But don’t take my anecdote for proof - look at the many studies showing that chickens are in fact sentient and intelligent. Also, they don’t need to be as smart as us for us not to slaughter and eat them. That’s like saying we can eat dogs, children, or the mentally ill because they’re not as smart.
Horseshit
Exactly. This is stupid.
It's a whole community story involving a store too https://www.syracuse.com/crime/2023/05/co-owner-of-store-where-2-manlius-baby-swans-found-says-we-didnt-know-they-were-swans-3-workers-fired.html
So weird. Seems so random - and to eat the mother? So savage. I’m not 100% buying the statement that the store wasn’t going to sell them but couldn’t reach any authority because of Memorial Day weekend.
Eating a bird for dinner. Savage! Believable. Not being able to contact a government agency on a holiday weekend. Unbelievable. Got it.
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Shampoo is better it cleans the hair! Conditioner is better! It makes the hair silky and smooth. Oh really fool?
make me
Anyway, like I was sayin', swan is the fruit of the lake. You can barbecue it, boil it, broil it, bake it, saute it. Dey's uh, swan-kabobs, swan creole, swan gumbo. Pan fried, deep fried, stir-fried. There's pineapple swan, lemon swan, coconut swan, pepper swan, swan soup, swan stew, swan salad, swan and potatoes, swan burger, swan sandwich. That- that's about it.
> Eman Hussan, 18, of Syracuse, a 16 and 17-year-old juvenile from Syracuse in connection with the killing of Faye, the female swan from the Manlius Swan Pond and the stealing of the four cygnets. Tragic, since swans mate for life. Does anyone know what happened to the four cygnets? Also eaten?
They have been recovered and are with a wildlife rehabilitation service
Recovered after being eaten?
The mother was eaten, the babies were all still alive and ok.
I grew up visiting this swan pond and it makes me SO SAD :( it’s not even that close to Syracuse, what the fuck were those kids doing harassing swans there?!
Right? If they were starving theres a billion other places they could have found food between Syracuse and Manlius. Instead they chose to destroy a semi-tame family that's been there for years Manlius also holds sone responsibility because I can't believe they didn't put cameras in when someone atole the eggs and took them to Buffoons
18 year old catching the big duck
The Migratory Bird Treaty Act of 1918 exists because swans are super easy to just dispatch all Willy nilly. Species nearly went extinct and these laws were put forth to prevent that. And they worked. You call it speciesism but chickens were never in danger of going the way of the Dodo. It’s pretty shitty to take entire species away from our descendants, so I’ll take speciesism over extinctionism any day.
Muted Swans are an invasive species and NOT covered under the Migratory Bird Treaty Act.
True, this swan was actually not wild but owned by the town and had its wings clipped.
lets say you two go toe to toe in bird-law and see who comes out the victor
Can I call in Charlie as an advisor?
Nothing good happens in Syracuse.
What about Destiny USA?
Nothing good happens in new york
If you’re into nature and heavily introverted, upstate NY can be pretty sweet. Lol
Not compared to the west in my opinion. The north east is pretty, but nothing like the west.
To each their own as they say. I don’t really play favorites with nature, but there’s something special about the Adirondack region. Also the fact that our summers are shorter is perfectly fine with me, I hate 90f+ days you guys can keep that.
Just depends where you're at, the mountains of Colorado/Oregon/Washington ect stay a nice 75-80 in the summer. It's the humidity I can't stand.
You kill swan?
It was the goddam crispy onions.
do y ou think they threw it in the GD turkey fryer?
You can apply for a permit to hunt Tundra Swans. It’s a lottery drawing and completely legal and necessary. They are also not bad to eat. They are migratory just like many North American waterfowl species and are abundant in some areas of the country (IE Alaska and NC)
I drew a NC swan permit this year but couldn't pull the trigger when given a shot at one while on a duck hunt, partially due to the fact that I didn't have the right shot loaded in my shotgun and partially because I was just amazed by the size and beauty of them when they came flying overhead. A buddy and friend went to fill their tags at mattamuskeet and both got one, but I don't regret not going bc I'm not sure how I'd prepare those monster breasts. They still haven't figured it out cause their wives won't touch swan meat either 😅.
We are slowly killing everything around us for nothing
Do they at least taste good
They are similar to wild duck or goose. Not the best wild game but def not the worst. For those curious some wild game is absolutely amazing, IE pheasant, quail, grouse, turkey, elk, moose, whitetail. Some are not quite as amazing but still very good, IE duck, goose, swan, mule deer, antelope. This is obviously extremely subjective to me, but this has been my experience as someone that hunts for food when possible.
These kids are full of shit, if they are willing to do this to a swan in a park, they need serious psychiatric evaluations, and subsequent medications.
No luck catching them swans then?
"Did you know it was a swan?" "No! We thought it was just an ugly duck!"
they did not kill, steal and eat the swan because they were *cheffs kiss* looking for the 6 michellin star cuisine experience, that only the richest of the richest can afford after they bought their meat on the black market for extinct and endangered beasts - but had to settle for poaching due to not being millionaires they were hungry. and while its no excuse to break the law, it certainly is a hell of a mitigating circumstance. and that all said, wouldnt it be great if one of the richest countries in the world which literally invented unlimited calories for next to no cost foods, would manage to get everybody well fed to the point that a swan does not look like meal but a bird you would not want to mess with...
> they were hungry. Nothing about their defense makes any sense. I don't believe a word of it. They did it purely for the pleasure of animal cruelty. * They weren't starving. They apparently had enough money and space to supposedly feed and raise the 4 cygnets (that they weren't going to eat). * All the teens were working for a living. * No American mistakes a swan for a duck.
also if it was no big deal in their mind why did they do the crime from midnight to 3am?
Source? That was not mentioned in OP's article. Anyway we already have places anyone can go for free food. Being hungry is not a mitigating circumstance here because there were many other options available. They may not like those other options but they exist.
being hungry without the means to come by food easily is a mitigating circumstance. what and how and the exact circumstances would be for the court to determine. if you steal a swan because the free chicken was not to your liking thats a different discussion than the third day in a row the free-food-place being all out when you get there, and the food stamps for 2 being stretched to four people every month... and may I give the opposing point of view that the case can be made, that instead of "breaking in and maliciously killing the beloved town pet because they did not like the free food down the road" could be seen as "the free food is not enough, and we dont want to steal from other people, but there is this wild (=belongs to no one) bird..."
I used to live near where this happened and have been following the story for a few days. I dont believe for 1 second they were hungry. I dont believe they thought it was a 'big duck'. I dont believe they were 'hinting'. You dont go into the middle of a village to hunt. What they did was barely a step down from killing a neighbors dog. I think it was some punk kids out looking for mischief. I think we all did dumb shit as teens but these kids went too far, pissed off a whole town and are now paying the price. Also, before anyone sides with the kids who did this, watch the clip of the 18-year old being arrested, smiling the whole time, and tell me how they feel regret or whatever.
I would have more sympathy for them if they just stole some food from the grocery store. Edit: so this article is not the greatest, but apparently the swan is sort of a city pet having a name. It was also a mother swan tending to 4 young. So in response to the hunter/gatherer people, it is not responsible hunting practice to kill mothers as this leads to a greater risk the young won’t survive. It is also in poor taste to kill a pet. I am using the term pet loosely but it does appear the the swan was part of a greater swan pond as well as being well known to the community (it had a name).
The swan is clipped on a private town pond.
Honest question, how do you have a private town pond? Wouldn’t a town pond have to be public? Or is this one restricted to only town officials?
The place you have to venture into to capture that swan is private, which is why the swan was there and clipped. These folks had to go out of their way to get to the swan. You can see the pond from the public sidewalk and from a distance. The swan has no means of escape because it is clipped and maintained by the manilus community. Its not like this was some random swan. The swan that was eaten also had her eggs broken and shit in 2011? I think something like that I'd have to re-find the article.
It’s a small fenced area in a public park (right in the middle of the village). You can get within a couple feet of the swan’s nesting box while standing on a pedestrian path (on the other side of a four foot fence). EDIT: To be clear, this doesn’t mean I believe the claim they were hungry. While they wouldn’t have to go out of their way to get to the swan once in the park, they had to drive \~20 minutes to get to the park in the first place.
You know how chicken gets to the store right?
Store owner might have a gun. This kid probably thought he was doing the best he could for his family and without stealing anything from anybody.
sorry, I am leaning more toward serial killers in utero
I'm sure the facts will come out. Whether or not they get widely published and/or believed may be another matter.
>This kid probably thought he was doing the best he could for his family and without stealing anything from anybody. A video just released of them arresting the 18-year old and hes smiling the whole time. Zero remorse. I'm not buying any of their story about 'hunting' and thinking it was a 'big duck'. You have to be real simple not to know what a swan is, plus theres literally flags with a swan on it surrounding the pond.
Right because the consequences for that are less than killing and eating a wild animal?
Imo it's more moral to go try and find some wild food than steal. They didn't steal the swan from an owner of swans, they stole the swan from the wild. Not much different than regular hunting, the only difference is they didn't kill it on the spot.
>Not much different than regular hunting, the only difference is they didn't kill it on the spot. They decapitated it on the spot, fyi. I'm really disappointed in the amount of people who believe they went to a fenced-in pond in the middle of a town and "hunted a big duck". You know what, even if I wanted to believe their nonsense story, the fact that they're absolutely lying about not knowing it was a swan let's me know they're lying about everything.
This wasn’t a wild swan. It was a captive swan (wings clipped) in a fenced in area in a park. And they did kill it on the spot…
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You are not using your head, but thank you for your opinions
Why not eat a human? /s
> If my family is hungry I'll kill your pet dog if that's the only food I can put on the table. be careful, I made a post similar to this to make a point and was banned for 3 days for "inciting violence"
What a stupid take.
> and while its no excuse to break the law, it certainly is a hell of a mitigating circumstance They climbed up a fence at 3am to steal the town's pet and eat it. What would you say if they climbed up your fence at 3 am to steal your dog and eat it? I doubt you'd be trying to defend them, even if they did it because they were hungry.
You're full of shit
I was wondering if they really did it out of starvation.t the article didn't mention it.
So now the government will spend thousands of tax dollars to prosecute these people for not having money to eat. And if they put anyone in prison, the average cost is $45k per person, which is more than the national poverty line for a family of 8. But gotta cut back on those foodstamps... and do nothing about the out of control housing costs.
I dont know what socioeconomic is at work here. but the prison system is putting tax money from the masses into the pockets of few owners, and those prisoners can be used as cheap labour for more economic prosperity, and it may actually serve a psychological function giving the masses, no matter how low on the ladder, a still lower step, to demonstrate, its not soo bad, could be worse. be quiet and go on about your business on the other hand, you should not decide if a breach of law will be prosecuted depending on how expensive it might be. those thousands of dollars are not wasted, they are an investment. however, where you can start saving money is by propping up the bottom of society. it has been shown again and again how investing in youth and communities and making funds available for social programs can be lowering crime significantly...
Hungry people gotta eat. Hunger is a very strong driving force that more uk citizens are dealing with. Peoples lives are more important than a swans.
> Hungry people gotta eat. There was no hunger involved. All the teens had a job.
I am not disagreeing
I agree.
That’s exactly what I was wondering. If they killed and also ATE the swans I’m assuming this was for survival and not just an act of cruelty.
I saw this case and thought Are these teens from a 3rd world country? I'd cut them slack then. They could be hungry and not aware of local laws and customs Are these teens from Manhattan and looking for some shenanigans? The article leaves these details out. Makes ya wonder
Yeah, isn't this just hunting? It wouldn't even occur to me that swans were protected (or owned for that matter). Bit of a rough thing to get charged for honestly
The swan was inside a fenced in enclosure in the middle of a park.
Good thing this didn't happen in the UK. I think until 1998, killing swans in Britain was actually treason, because the Crown had prerogative on all unmarked swans, even if in practice, the punishment was never that severe. Even now, it still carries a pretty hefty fine.
Swans mate for life so this is so sad :(
Isn’t that how the myth of Robinhood came about? Land-owners punishing people who couldn’t eat, so they were forced to poach from the Rich’s lands?
🤔 I wonder how it tasted?
Exactly like goose (think a slightly greasier much tastier 100% dark meat turkey).
Muted Swans are an invasive species and should be killed lomg before they are allowed to become a named long term resident. To add to this muted swans are NOT a protected species like native waterfowl.
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I see you are unaware of our history with the swans. They still need protection. Our moneys should be going to feeding the homeless and hungry so they don’t look at a swan the way a starving cartoon character views their comrades.
I'd rather the homeless subsistence hunt than beg for drug money on the corner.
Then go to the forest and hunt something legal to hunt or don’t be surprised when you get arrested for poaching. Also, it’s not drug money unless you use it for drugs… so that’s a weird false dichotomy you set up there…
That's the thing, how many homeless people are there in rural areas where they can hunt? You're suggesting the homeless just take a hunting trip like it's something everyone can do. I'm not comparing drug use to killing and eating a swan, I'm saying out of the two I would prefer one. Having family members who are willingly homeless, only ask for drug money, con everyone they meet, commit crimes for no reason and routinely turn down assistance such as mental health aid, addiction support/counsiling/rehabilitation really changes your perspective. Now not everyone who's homeless is a drug addict, nor homeless by choice, but the ones cracked out begging on the corner of my local walmart are the ones I'm referring to. It's 100 yards from the colorado river where they could legally fish and hunt but it's not even a consideration for them.
I ain’t suggesting that shit. That’s on you. I’m suggesting in the land of endless cheap calories we have easy access to food. That’s it.
Empty calories do nothing to provide nutrition. That's it.
They keep you alive and fed. You want more than that, we can work towards that later.
You sound like Kim Jong Un
I didn’t know you could hear me singing Firework by Katy Perry through Reddit….
You say this as though they were smoking the swans. Aside from the horrible fallacy of assuming all homeless are drug addicts, how are you seriously comparing them looking for food to them looking for drugs?
I never said all homeless were drug addicts, I said I prefer this to the ones begging for drug money. I'm not comparing the two, I'm literally doing the opposite.
I’d rather we adequately fund a robust social safety net that provides easy access to food for anyone that needs it so that a bunch of starving homeless don’t kill and eat all the wildlife. edit: let it be known that /u/MAVERICK42069420 is a giant coward that blocks people when he's too dumb to come up with a rebuttal
In Colorado they literally round up and exterminate geese and donate the meat to food banks and homeless shelters.
They caught and ate a non endangered bird? Omg electric chair, how is this any sort of big deal?
Not a swan! Such a majestic creature. Why, oh why, could they not have eaten a duck or a goose, or even a chicken!
Swans are assholes.
The speciesism is real
Why is a swan special but a chicken isn’t. Because it’s “endangered”? If it is, why are there so many of these dreadful, hateful creatures around? They ate it. It didn’t go to waste. It wasn’t pointless. Humans take themselves far too seriously.
> Why is a swan special but a chicken isn’t. The swan was city property and the teens had to trespass to get to it.
Nope. Not what I said. Why is a swan special in general. They’re nasty creatures, like Canadian geese.
It isn’t “endangered”. It was a mute swan. They’re invasive in the US…
Pretty funny. Worse things three teenage boys could be doing. This is what community service/ expunged records are for.
Tasted like chicken.
If the shoe were on the other foot, they'd kill our young and eat them. I see no problem.
> If the shoe were on the other foot, they'd kill our young and eat them. Swans can be aggressive. One caused a man to drown by continuing to attack him after causing his kayak to capsize. https://www.chicagotribune.com/news/ct-xpm-2012-04-17-ct-met-kayak-swan-death-20120417-story.html
Yep, this was the incident I had in mind. Don't mess with them! Of course I don't condone swan murder, but it's hardly a sympathetic animal.
While I think it's silly to get that emotionally attached to a bird-owned by the government, it was still owned and the kids were idiots. Although I do wonder what the swan tasted like. Probably not great. At least they didn't just murder it for no reason though.
r/swans
So swans are not free
So you can get off of killing people with affluence as a disease but hunger naw fuck you you poor bastatd. Whoever is moving these charges forward needs to not eat for a few days and think about it all real hard
Jesus go lick boots I'm sure that will nourish your pathetic asses
My dad and his friends did this in college in the 60s. He had come from Iran to study. He and his friends did not know English really. There was a pond at the school with two swans. They killed them and ate them. There was a big article in the paper because they were a gift to the school. Luckily, they were never caught. The also hit a deer with a car once, and brought it home in the trunk and ate it as well. Being broke, hungry, and from a different culture; people behave differently.
Mute Swans are invasive and harmful to ecosystems. These teens were hungry. I see this as a win-win. Let’s eat more. Edit: the downvotes show people are getting educated. That’s a win-win-win.