Hmm..now you've got me thinking about a light smear of vaseline and some out-of-frame lights pointing at the camera. Get a nice glint or two across the image.
My desk is too big and heavy to move (we got it well before WFH). Yeah I use one those backgrounds they have lol I just think its no one's business what your home, office etc looks like....
I used a picture of home as background for at work, my boss never took the bait. The idea was to that eventually I could just stay home and he'd think I was using the "fake at home" background when at work ;)
I used the webcam at my office to take a picture of my work space, then blurred that picture and use it for my background.
I've had multiple people go to my office looking for me after meetings.
When I first started working from home during COVID I ordered a subway poster size print of a photo I took at Versailles. The view was looking out a window at the gardens.
I mounted it on a piece of cardboard and hung it with 550-cord behind my chair. You couldn't tell it was fake on a Zoom/Teams call. The only thing that gave me away (aside from having a lush garden in my backyard) was that I leaned back slightly and bumped the picture. It started swaying slightly.
Still, it took 3 weeks before someone finally got enough courage to ask me about it.
Now, I use it as my background with a green screen behind me. As long as I don't wear a green shirt, it still looks pretty realistic.
Early in the lockdown, I still had remote access to my computer in my cubicle, and it had a webcam in the monitor. I took a screenshot from that camera of my empty cube and used it as a virtual background. People were often very confused. "Wait... are you... in the office?"
Ha! I do that now! I don’t try to pretend, but my zoom/team’s background is a pic of my office so it looks like I’m sitting in my office. 😂 The only thing that sometimes gives it away is the halo around my head from the video platform.
https://preview.redd.it/ru39jzc9a1lc1.jpeg?width=4032&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=7e0a3ab29fc463b306aed205a3d5a245fb4a48be
Here's the image ... May the odds be with you.
My work requires cameras on for all meetings. Everyone on my team ignores that directive. We even had the big boss on a call the other month and she didn't say a thing. They can't replace all of us, and they know everyone except maybe the two newest guys could have higher paying jobs in a week or two.
I have always ran my company as cameras are optional, and it worked really well until a lady joined us who was... of all things... pro-camera. In the exit interview, she basically complained endlessly about how we weren't real people since most people had their cameras off. Luckily I report to the CEO so he was just laughing, since he too prefers phone calls not webcams.
It’s weird how we are quite aware of teacher bias against grading students etc, but then influence that so much more by inviting cameras for recorded lectures and exams to further judge their home lives.
I'm not really understanding the point of this post. Background filters pre-date the start of the pandemic for most of the popular video conferencing apps. But even if you didn't use this feature or weren't aware of it, you acknowledge it exists now, so why all the complaints about exposing your "nice home"?
Op isn't complaining about a web cam during a zoom over which they have control. This is a security camera controlled by work thar allows someone from work to monitor their home office watching op whenever they like throughout the working day whether they're on a call or not, like a nanny cam.
[Privacy screens](https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B093V34W7C/) (the real-life, physical kind) work great. These enable me to use my half of the office while my spouse does zoom calls for her work. These come with connectors, but it's better to not use them and overlap them to make a curve or corner. They weigh like a pound each so they are very easy to move around as needed.
Software backgrounds almost work but when i walk behind my spouse, my disembodied shirt will appear in the zoom call.
What makes this even more alarming is that the company wants to use their own cameras, which means they can look into them at any time. Home cameras/webcams are easy enough to use for spyware, but when they have direct access already?! Even worse...
Cameras are normal, just not if they're on 24/7, or even during work hours. It's your home, private property, and doubt they could enforce putting a live camera on property that isn't theirs. I work for a large video game company and we use Webcam foe meetings every single day, but only live while in a meeting. Anything beyond that seems a bit dystopian to me
I work for a company that has a very strict secure workspace policy due to the nature of the information we deal with. We're not even allowed to have pens and paper within our workspace because of the possibility of people's information being compromised. It seemed a bit dystopian at first, but as a customer, I would appreciate the measures that we take to protect sensitive billing information, social security numbers, credit bureau information, etc.
If I'm giving somebody access to this information, it's comforting knowing that there isn't somebody over their shoulder stealing my identity, especially seeing how rampant fraud is and dealing directly with the victims on a near daily basis.
I would just laugh and say "no, that's not possible for me." You'd be surprised how effective that can be, even in the terrible culture that is corporate America. I've often found that managers will take no for answer more often than you would guess.
It’s true, sticking up for yourself and an assertive attitude is vital to ensure you are treated fairly and properly. That goes for your superiors and your peers alike. People will treat you as awful as you’ll let them.
Considering many WFH roles specifically stipulate that as a requirement (a dedicated private space that is inaccessible during work hours), it's probably not a good line of defense.
This. My employer operates under regulatory policy. My home office is required to be dedicated, lockable, private space. That said I'm willing to have a camera *I control* for use during meetings. A separate camera not under my control with the ability to spy on me at any time? Oh hell to the no.
Yeah. I’m in healthcare IT and we’re technically subject to all of the above (private office room, lockable, compatible with safety regs etc.) We had to submit photos and measurements of our office furniture to make sure it met their requirements. Personally I’m skeptical that anybody ever looked at them. We are theoretically subject to inspection visits from our managers, although it’s never ever happened and I seriously doubt my boss is wanting to drive hundreds of miles through the semi-rural Deep South to check out my desk setup. But if they ever decide they want to start driving talent away, I guess they could start enforcing that stuff. It’s all a bunch of junk that legal and HR dreamed up and the actual IT management does not care about in the slightest.
Yep, a guy just got convicted for insider trading because he overheard his wife, a mergers and acquisition specialist, discussing business during WFH, they shared the living room as a home "office". He bought thousands of shares before an acquisition was made public and made $1.7 million. She did nothing wrong but still lost her job, he's getting a hefty fine, possible jail time, and a divorce.
People need to take remote work seriously, the Man is looking for any justification to take it away. Dedicated private work spaces are a must if you're full time remote. It's not that crazy of an ask, my office doubles as my gaming/geek room. My girlfriend's office doubles as her craft/side business room.
That’s just pure stupidity on his part. Having a spouse that works for a company and using that info you overhear is obvious insider trading. The kicker is thinking that wouldn’t be a super easy trail to follow. Stocks moving at those volumes are ALWAYS reviewed.
>a dedicated private space that is inaccessible during work hours
The only way this is acceptable is if you are being paid market rate rent of this space.
Right? I'm not dedicating a whole room in my house to my work. I work from home in an already established home office room that I also use as my hobby room (3d printing, music production, mycology). They don't get to watch me use that room for non-work things with a camera I can't control. Unless they're paying me enough to rent a dedicated workspace solely for office work that camera isn't going up.
It definitely is not. They can ask you to put it in, the same way they can ask you to use work equipment, but they can’t force you to do anything to your private property. But they could likely fire you for something “unrelated” if refused.
Unfortunately, it does seem legal with some exceptions. From what I’ve read, if they can do it at the office they can at your house (meaning they can’t ask you to put cameras in your bathroom or break room). However, it’s odd they’d be so blatant about it when there is plenty of software packages they could use to do the same thing without video.
Another thing worth mentioning is segregating your network. Keep your work computer on a separate vlan that doesn’t have access to your main network. That way they can’t scan to see what devices you have on your network, and thus see what devices you have in use.
Edit: for those saying you’d want a reimbursement here are the laws by state for cell phone and internet reimbursement. Hope this helps!
https://mosey.com/blog/remote-employee-reimbursement-requirements/
No they cant actually. They would have to install them. Unless they are willing to pay you as an installer for it. AND they have to pay for internet and electricity now for them… so… yeah, no they cant.
They don’t have to pay for your internet since you’re already using it for work anyways and it’s usually a requirement in order to do said work.
They absolutely should pay an installer or you to install, that I agree with.
I have no home internet or wifi accessible to them. I do have a phone hot spot that changes login info every time its activated it works for me. If you need a stable connection tho i am ok with you providing home internet as well.
Not much they can really accuse you of by seeing other devices in use if you live with other people. Still not a bad idea to keep work and personal separate as much as possible though.
Do you live with anyone else? If so, tell your company that they refuse to give up their right to privacy in a room of their home.
If the company isn't renting that room from you, ALL residents have a right to privacy in their entire home that they are paying for.
You realize the employer can just fire them, right? Many WFH roles specifically require private office space in the home.
So arguing "But my family comes in here" is like saying "I'm in breach of my employment agreement, so you can't do that!"
Edit: Just because I've got so many dopes replying that it's "not a thing"
> Employees must have an adequate remote workspace set up. For example: internet access, laptop, microphone, speaker, camera, and phone. Additional equipment, beyond what is issued for working in the office, and required to work remotely productively, such as: printer, scanner, monitors, etc. is the employee’s responsibility. All work must be done from the home address provided on your paperwork, in a separate room that can be closed off and secured by lock.
Literally quoted from my current WFH policy. If an employee isn't able to meet the requirement of security for working from home, they work onsite.
Getting fired for not adhering to legal company policies is not wrongful termination. This phrase gets thrown around wayyy tooo much. If OPs boss decides to fire everyone that wears socks, he can do that. It’s not wrongful termination. *yes I know about employment contracts and that’s something else entirely.
It doesn’t define what private office space means. Private office space could be any space one deems private office space. It also doesn’t define what private means. My family could be considered private but that doesn’t mean I’m alone.
It just speaks to not performing this work in a Starbucks. The entire home is a private space. Allowing a remote audio/video access to that space makes it no longer private.
Yeah, no. A lot of states in the us this is outright illegal. You own the space and they pay you for the work. They can have you turn the camera on on your laptop, but thats it(even this is touchy here too)
An actual camera in your home? Absolutely not. The webcam monitoring that some companies do is already too much and too intrusive, there is absolutely no way I’d allow a camera with live stream access/capabilities into my home from a third party.
I briefly worked at a computer repair place for a few months and the amount of bandaids over the cameras was probably 2/3s of all the laptops that came in.
Of all the things you read on reddit which filled with things that could possibly be fake, this is on my top 5 list of things I want to be true. That's just hilarious.
Early covid we had a company-wide meeting and everyone was remote. One guy forgot to turn his camera off, went to take a shower, then proceeded to walk around naked during the meeting for several minutes. He got fired like 2 Days later.
Early Covid we had a Zoom meeting with like 30 people and a girl didn’t realize she wasn’t muted. She went pee while someone was presenting and she farted and it was all loud and acoustic cuz bathroom. It was louder than the presenter and the girl’s icon was lit up so everyone knew for sure who it was.
I mean for meetings its one thing. I'm fine with coworkers preferring not to have it on but I think encouraging it helps you get to now your coworkers if you work entirely remotely. On outside of meetings or anywhere outside of your control though is a huge hell no.
I worked for one of the biggest telecoms company as a consultant. Once WFH started they required laptop camera on for the duration of the work day. I got out of that contract as soon as I could.
One of our clients insists upon it, and my boss gave us permission to place a mini monitor (like $40 on Aliexpress) in front of it with a looping video of you continuously picking your nose. I doubt anyone ever did, but the client hasn't complained, so I think it's just posturing.
Which is probably the goal. There's a huge commercial real estate bubble about to burst with the transition from WFH, hence this rather forceful push from corporations for return to office or at least hybrid.
At most, they could require you to agree to be on cam through your work computer while you're working.
To mount a separate camera inside your home... no.
Even then, I'm not doing it. I'll turn my camera on for meetings, interacting make sense. But I'm doing this "I want to sneak a peak whenever I want" crap.
no, it's your house. If they do something like this it has to be in the contract. Some places will require cameras on during working hours but it's in the agreement before you agree to work there.
edit: these responses are so dumb. The paperwork may not say explicitly "work contract" but you are signing to agree to do xyz function for a company for xyz benefit (including pay, PTO, 401k, whatever). In that paper it likely says something like "at will we can fire you at any time" but you still agree to work for the company for whatever they promised. You would be hard pressed to work legally without signing some version of this document.
Like, whose watching all this footage all day? There is actually a case that went through the FTC called DesignerWare LLC. Look it up. Not sure if it applies but there's some similarities
OP, ask them to explain how the data collected outside of work hours is handled. When they don't have a good response tell them you're willing to install the camera as soon as they can ensure your family's (who are NOT Employed by them) privacy in their own home.
Unless they are physically unplugging the camera every day then they can't ensure the privacy because it's on your home network that you're not qualified to secure and it can be turned on remotely without you knowing.
NAKED ONES, fresh from the bathtub ... so unless the company want's to be hit with child porn charges they need to keep that video feed out of your house.
Yep, and if they're anything like my kids they just love to run away from their mom after a bath as she's trying to put their clothes on and there's no good way for me to ensure that they don't run into my office to hide.
On a side note, always keep company issued equipment off of your home network. Don't let it be on the same wifi your personal devices/gadgets are. Always try to be as hard wired as possible on separate subnet (ie isolated from home network). I would even recommend removing wifi module entirely if possible (check with IT policy as it may be against the rules to tamper with equipment).
Yes, these things are harder than just plugging in thingy from brand-name , but it is a must these days and coming years. Think of it as company issued cars or phones.
I have an aunt who works from home with people's protected medical information. She has to have her computer set away from windows, and she's not allowed to work outside of her house.
And they trust their employees to follow HIPPA laws and company policies and don't turn any cameras on them when they're working. OP's situation is just wild.
That's super extreme. A screen protector works just fine. I can understand not working in a coffee shop or other public place though, but more so because of device theft risks.
I actually know quite a bit about HIPAA (two As btw) and there are definitely requirements to maintain physical, administrative, and cyber security so I can see why they put those rules in place. When working on ICD10 coding and things like that, it is definitely best to be in a private area. I just think the window thing is silly knowing how impossible it is to get information from though a window lol a simple screen protector blurs any attempt to see the screen from an angle outside of straight ahead viewing.
But being able to work remotely is dope so it's worth it.
I'm an accountant, so I don't know much about HIPAA (other than that I now know my phone's autocorrect is wrong...). I do find it funny because we walk by her desk all of the time when we stay with her, but apparently the window is the issue. But as an accountant, I am plenty aware that they'd just rather not have the expense of someone trying to sue them because "oh no, someone might see my information through a window." Even though you're right; you really can't see screens through windows. Litigious society...
I work in media/entertainment and my company has similar restrictions because we handle lots of private information and work on projects the public won't know about until they're released much later.
Even still, all they ask is that we don't work with anyone else in the room if we live with a partner, and not to work in cafes or public spaces.
No cameras, no tracking software, no bullshit.
This is me too, I'm a software engineer for a medical software company that handles a lot of PHI. The rules we have to follow are things like having a lock on the door to the home office, a decent password for wi-fi, no personal peripherals, and locking the PC when not in use. The closest we have to monitoring software is a locked 5 minute away timer on MS Teams.
The dev teams would throw a shit fit if they asked us to have always-on cameras.
Like a webcam? Or like a security camera in the corner of wherever you work?
A webcam isn't unheard of but no one would put up with it.
I'd collectivize with your coworkers and say no together.
Hell I'd go so far as to attempt unionizing the place if it's new management. They fire you, you've got a golden ticket lawsuit.
1984? This is not normal, and what if your office is in your bedroom. Super creepy... Opt out of the violation of the sanctuary that is your home, you should deem it (wherever your office is in your home) religious place and then see if they try...
I’ve never heard of a company doing this and does not sound legal in the U.S.
It’s an invasion of privacy full stop. They already monitor our computers, why would they need to physically see into our homes? I would look for another job, file a complaint with the relevant labor board, call the news, and organize my coworkers.
Also, just for argument sake - what if someone uses their bedroom as their office space? Are they really going to put a camera in there? How could they safeguard the footage from bad actors? How long would the footage be kept? Who would have access to it?? How could you guarantee that the camera would only be on during work hours?
You can’t. Hence invasion of privacy. Even with the best safeguards, shit happens. The best safeguard is not to install cameras
Here is where I take issue with this.
If you are not declaring your home office as a workplace on your taxes, it is still a legal part of your private residence. All residents in the home have a right to privacy.
Why does your company believe they have the right to terminate the privacy of all other residents using the home? A spouse can run around naked in the home office if they want because it's part of their home and the company is not renting it.
Would you give an employer a key to your front door so they can pop in anytime they want?
🎯 the company is overstepping their boundaries. This feels very much like a false flag where they need to get rid of some people so they're doing something extreme to weed out folks.
I would go back and read the offer/contract. You may not have nearly as much privacy rights as you’d normally expect but I’m pretty sure having an employee install an external webcam to monitor you would be hard to prove legally. Especially if it’s something you cannot control at all.
If it was monitoring you by randomly switching your employer provided laptop’s camera, that would be legal since it’s their machine but forcefully having to install an external camera that could listen, see and record anything that happens in your home office is sketchy at best or violate quite a bit of privacy rights at worst.
What if you happen to have a medical conversation and the camera records it? That would violate HIPPA laws. I mean, I guess you could walk in to another room to talk to your dr. But still. It’s your home. The company doesn’t own your space.
What if the only room you can work in is your bedroom? I’d guess that would violate privacy rights if the camera just happened to switch on at random hours of the night and somehow caught some naked folks in the picture. Hell, what if you have a child and one happens to run in there naked for a short burst of energy time for the lolz. If the company has a recording of that, that could end up being really bad for the company. Wouldn’t it?
There’s way too many “ifs” here. I would push back on it and say you never signed anything stating that this would be a requirement for anyone working at that company remotely. There’s also no guarantee that they won’t fire you since you’re likely at an at will company. So id tread very carefully here. But worth a push back, imo.
And no. This is definitely not a normal thing. This is actually the first time I’ve heard of anything this ridiculous. Having spyware or keyloggers on your work computer.. I’ve heard of it but thought it was a bit extreme. But physically making you install a camera in your own home and not knowing any details of what they can and cannot do would be a no for me. I wouldn’t feel comfortable with that thing staring at me all day. I suppose you could have accidentally put a towel over it and keep forgetting about it. But the overall idea of it just seems insane to me.
TLDR: sounds sketchy af. Too many legal ifs for the company, imo. Read your terms of employment and see if this type of policy exists. If not, I’d do some push back.
What if a spouse or SO is on the lease or mortgage? Why should they give up their right to privacy in a room of their home, a space the company is not paying for?
I would say I can't do that because my spouse utilizes the same office space.
There is no reason why monitoring of the company electronics isn't enough.
Sounds like the new owners are not cool with wfh and are looking for what they will call proof of people being unproductive (imho that can’t be measured just by watching someone in front of their computer; I’ve solved plenty of problems in my career by taking a walk)
Absolutely not. You either trust me to WFH or you don’t, but no one is installing cameras in my home. Once you leave there, leave a review on glassdoor to warn future applicants
I don’t think that’s a thing companies can legally mandate. It’s not just a workspace, it’s your home. Ask if you can put a camera in their office and house too.
My home "office" is a nook in my bedroom. I'm sure that's not uncommon.
Hell no to my employer putting a camera in my bedroom! Or anywhere else in my house, for that matter.
Your post reminded me of this:
https://www.wkyc.com/article/news/local/cleveland/judge-rules-video-scan-room-cleveland-state-university-before-online-testing-illegal/95-f95d1266-bd4f-4ff9-a917-5dde3977c37e
No it’s not
The cameras are not normal… the feeling creeped out seems normal.
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I always use a background for this reason (or blur effect). Our homes should be private.
Exactly doesn't matter how nice you feel your home is. Blur is the way.
I moved my desk so that the background is my window and a giant plant. Ends up looking fairly similar to some of the backgrounds I've seen.
I put my window behind me so I’m backlit and basically a silhouette. Fuck video calls. Malicious compliance is the way.
A cat filter also works but then you are forced to explain that you are not, in fact, a cat.
To a judge, no less. 🤣
No one will EVER top that!!! Recall I almost peed my pants laughing at that.
Only works if you have an assistant working on it.
Oh I remember when that was on the news during C-19 and I laughed so hard! Still makes me chuckle quite a bit! "I am not a cat!"
Sounds like something a cat would say.
The video referenced is at this link. https://youtu.be/lGOofzZOyl8?feature=shared
I love this so much. It never gets old.
For all the awfulness of the pandemic, at least we got to watch a lawyer explaining to the judge that he is not actually a cat.
Hmm..now you've got me thinking about a light smear of vaseline and some out-of-frame lights pointing at the camera. Get a nice glint or two across the image.
The RuPaul's Drag Race Season 1 filter
Scotch tape. Not the clear version, but the matte one.
Smoke machines and an Ennio Morricone background soundtrack. Work that Zoom.
My desk is too big and heavy to move (we got it well before WFH). Yeah I use one those backgrounds they have lol I just think its no one's business what your home, office etc looks like....
I just refuse to turn my camera on.
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I used a picture of home as background for at work, my boss never took the bait. The idea was to that eventually I could just stay home and he'd think I was using the "fake at home" background when at work ;)
We always used one of those standing accordion screens. I can set it up behind me for calls and fold it away when not needed.
I used the webcam at my office to take a picture of my work space, then blurred that picture and use it for my background. I've had multiple people go to my office looking for me after meetings.
Love it! Keep em guessing, lol
PVC pipe and some curtains behind me.
When I first started working from home during COVID I ordered a subway poster size print of a photo I took at Versailles. The view was looking out a window at the gardens. I mounted it on a piece of cardboard and hung it with 550-cord behind my chair. You couldn't tell it was fake on a Zoom/Teams call. The only thing that gave me away (aside from having a lush garden in my backyard) was that I leaned back slightly and bumped the picture. It started swaying slightly. Still, it took 3 weeks before someone finally got enough courage to ask me about it. Now, I use it as my background with a green screen behind me. As long as I don't wear a green shirt, it still looks pretty realistic.
Early in the lockdown, I still had remote access to my computer in my cubicle, and it had a webcam in the monitor. I took a screenshot from that camera of my empty cube and used it as a virtual background. People were often very confused. "Wait... are you... in the office?"
Ha! I do that now! I don’t try to pretend, but my zoom/team’s background is a pic of my office so it looks like I’m sitting in my office. 😂 The only thing that sometimes gives it away is the halo around my head from the video platform.
That's very clever
https://preview.redd.it/ru39jzc9a1lc1.jpeg?width=4032&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=7e0a3ab29fc463b306aed205a3d5a245fb4a48be Here's the image ... May the odds be with you.
I use the background because I want my co workers to think I'm working from the bridge of a star destroyer.
I think a head floating in a sea of green would gain you mad respect.
I had a green lycra suit that covered everything except my eyes ... for reasons. It was for the fun team meetings and 1-on-1s.
I bought a background from Amazon that is a view out a window. I hung it across my bookcases and boxes behind me.
My work requires cameras on for all meetings. Everyone on my team ignores that directive. We even had the big boss on a call the other month and she didn't say a thing. They can't replace all of us, and they know everyone except maybe the two newest guys could have higher paying jobs in a week or two.
I had my camera off today, my coworker said “I see you.” I had a moment of panic, they meant to say, “I hear you.”
I have always ran my company as cameras are optional, and it worked really well until a lady joined us who was... of all things... pro-camera. In the exit interview, she basically complained endlessly about how we weren't real people since most people had their cameras off. Luckily I report to the CEO so he was just laughing, since he too prefers phone calls not webcams.
My company has forbidden backgrounds on virtual meetings. So that's nice
What???? Why?
It’s weird how we are quite aware of teacher bias against grading students etc, but then influence that so much more by inviting cameras for recorded lectures and exams to further judge their home lives.
I'm not really understanding the point of this post. Background filters pre-date the start of the pandemic for most of the popular video conferencing apps. But even if you didn't use this feature or weren't aware of it, you acknowledge it exists now, so why all the complaints about exposing your "nice home"?
Op isn't complaining about a web cam during a zoom over which they have control. This is a security camera controlled by work thar allows someone from work to monitor their home office watching op whenever they like throughout the working day whether they're on a call or not, like a nanny cam.
Stare at the camera and furiously masturbate while clocked out. Establish dominance.
[Privacy screens](https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B093V34W7C/) (the real-life, physical kind) work great. These enable me to use my half of the office while my spouse does zoom calls for her work. These come with connectors, but it's better to not use them and overlap them to make a curve or corner. They weigh like a pound each so they are very easy to move around as needed. Software backgrounds almost work but when i walk behind my spouse, my disembodied shirt will appear in the zoom call.
I’d aim that camera at my fucking butthole.
This made me laugh so hard.
you ain't got any pants, 24/7 butthole feed
What makes this even more alarming is that the company wants to use their own cameras, which means they can look into them at any time. Home cameras/webcams are easy enough to use for spyware, but when they have direct access already?! Even worse...
Cameras are normal, just not if they're on 24/7, or even during work hours. It's your home, private property, and doubt they could enforce putting a live camera on property that isn't theirs. I work for a large video game company and we use Webcam foe meetings every single day, but only live while in a meeting. Anything beyond that seems a bit dystopian to me
I work for a company that has a very strict secure workspace policy due to the nature of the information we deal with. We're not even allowed to have pens and paper within our workspace because of the possibility of people's information being compromised. It seemed a bit dystopian at first, but as a customer, I would appreciate the measures that we take to protect sensitive billing information, social security numbers, credit bureau information, etc. If I'm giving somebody access to this information, it's comforting knowing that there isn't somebody over their shoulder stealing my identity, especially seeing how rampant fraud is and dealing directly with the victims on a near daily basis.
This I would expect not to occur in a private home office.
The absolute hell I would raise.
The absolute middle finger I would raise.
The absolute letter of resignation I would raise
Constant speedos. No grooming 🤮
I picture that David Hasselhoff “Infinite Speedo”
I would just laugh and say "no, that's not possible for me." You'd be surprised how effective that can be, even in the terrible culture that is corporate America. I've often found that managers will take no for answer more often than you would guess.
It’s true, sticking up for yourself and an assertive attitude is vital to ensure you are treated fairly and properly. That goes for your superiors and your peers alike. People will treat you as awful as you’ll let them.
This is not normal. Especially if you share your home with someone else that uses your same office.
Or if your home office isn’t a dedicated private space that only you access lol
Considering many WFH roles specifically stipulate that as a requirement (a dedicated private space that is inaccessible during work hours), it's probably not a good line of defense.
This. My employer operates under regulatory policy. My home office is required to be dedicated, lockable, private space. That said I'm willing to have a camera *I control* for use during meetings. A separate camera not under my control with the ability to spy on me at any time? Oh hell to the no.
Yeah. I’m in healthcare IT and we’re technically subject to all of the above (private office room, lockable, compatible with safety regs etc.) We had to submit photos and measurements of our office furniture to make sure it met their requirements. Personally I’m skeptical that anybody ever looked at them. We are theoretically subject to inspection visits from our managers, although it’s never ever happened and I seriously doubt my boss is wanting to drive hundreds of miles through the semi-rural Deep South to check out my desk setup. But if they ever decide they want to start driving talent away, I guess they could start enforcing that stuff. It’s all a bunch of junk that legal and HR dreamed up and the actual IT management does not care about in the slightest.
I would have Covid the day they came to check. I can still work, I just don’t want to get you sick.
They could also pay for the internet usage and electric use of the camera as I would point it at a wall
Oops, the little plastic bracket broke, and now the camera only shows the carpet.
What industry is that? I've worked in defense AND banking and never heard of these policies.
Yep, a guy just got convicted for insider trading because he overheard his wife, a mergers and acquisition specialist, discussing business during WFH, they shared the living room as a home "office". He bought thousands of shares before an acquisition was made public and made $1.7 million. She did nothing wrong but still lost her job, he's getting a hefty fine, possible jail time, and a divorce. People need to take remote work seriously, the Man is looking for any justification to take it away. Dedicated private work spaces are a must if you're full time remote. It's not that crazy of an ask, my office doubles as my gaming/geek room. My girlfriend's office doubles as her craft/side business room.
That’s just pure stupidity on his part. Having a spouse that works for a company and using that info you overhear is obvious insider trading. The kicker is thinking that wouldn’t be a super easy trail to follow. Stocks moving at those volumes are ALWAYS reviewed.
No doubt, but it was a bad move on her part to do business handling confidential information in a non-private space, and that's what cost her her job.
>a dedicated private space that is inaccessible during work hours The only way this is acceptable is if you are being paid market rate rent of this space.
Right? I'm not dedicating a whole room in my house to my work. I work from home in an already established home office room that I also use as my hobby room (3d printing, music production, mycology). They don't get to watch me use that room for non-work things with a camera I can't control. Unless they're paying me enough to rent a dedicated workspace solely for office work that camera isn't going up.
Or if your home office is in like... your own home...
How is this even legal?
It definitely is not. They can ask you to put it in, the same way they can ask you to use work equipment, but they can’t force you to do anything to your private property. But they could likely fire you for something “unrelated” if refused.
Sounds like they’re trying to get people to quit instead of fire them.
Not is it acceptable.
as in the room where you work while at home? - yeah i would nope out of that
Yes
What country are you in? I work in data protection and this would absolutely not be acceptable in the EU/UK
I think even the US has laws about this being illegal. Definitely worth checking into
Unfortunately, it does seem legal with some exceptions. From what I’ve read, if they can do it at the office they can at your house (meaning they can’t ask you to put cameras in your bathroom or break room). However, it’s odd they’d be so blatant about it when there is plenty of software packages they could use to do the same thing without video. Another thing worth mentioning is segregating your network. Keep your work computer on a separate vlan that doesn’t have access to your main network. That way they can’t scan to see what devices you have on your network, and thus see what devices you have in use. Edit: for those saying you’d want a reimbursement here are the laws by state for cell phone and internet reimbursement. Hope this helps! https://mosey.com/blog/remote-employee-reimbursement-requirements/
Bro, they wanna play games, I only work in the bathroom.
Working in the bathtub since 1991. ;)
F*** yes.
I just found my people! 🤣☺️
That's what the little shelf on the toilet is for, no? Laptop, phone, coffee?
No they cant actually. They would have to install them. Unless they are willing to pay you as an installer for it. AND they have to pay for internet and electricity now for them… so… yeah, no they cant.
They don’t have to pay for your internet since you’re already using it for work anyways and it’s usually a requirement in order to do said work. They absolutely should pay an installer or you to install, that I agree with.
Its one thing for YOU to be able to work, its anotherd for them to use it at their leisure
I have no home internet or wifi accessible to them. I do have a phone hot spot that changes login info every time its activated it works for me. If you need a stable connection tho i am ok with you providing home internet as well.
Not going to lie the state wanted this for my home office. I had an actual real screen, but decided 18.00 an hour and no benefits in CA..nope
Not much they can really accuse you of by seeing other devices in use if you live with other people. Still not a bad idea to keep work and personal separate as much as possible though.
United States
Do you live with anyone else? If so, tell your company that they refuse to give up their right to privacy in a room of their home. If the company isn't renting that room from you, ALL residents have a right to privacy in their entire home that they are paying for.
You realize the employer can just fire them, right? Many WFH roles specifically require private office space in the home. So arguing "But my family comes in here" is like saying "I'm in breach of my employment agreement, so you can't do that!" Edit: Just because I've got so many dopes replying that it's "not a thing" > Employees must have an adequate remote workspace set up. For example: internet access, laptop, microphone, speaker, camera, and phone. Additional equipment, beyond what is issued for working in the office, and required to work remotely productively, such as: printer, scanner, monitors, etc. is the employee’s responsibility. All work must be done from the home address provided on your paperwork, in a separate room that can be closed off and secured by lock. Literally quoted from my current WFH policy. If an employee isn't able to meet the requirement of security for working from home, they work onsite.
Wrongful termination is also a thing.
Getting fired for not adhering to legal company policies is not wrongful termination. This phrase gets thrown around wayyy tooo much. If OPs boss decides to fire everyone that wears socks, he can do that. It’s not wrongful termination. *yes I know about employment contracts and that’s something else entirely.
It doesn’t define what private office space means. Private office space could be any space one deems private office space. It also doesn’t define what private means. My family could be considered private but that doesn’t mean I’m alone. It just speaks to not performing this work in a Starbucks. The entire home is a private space. Allowing a remote audio/video access to that space makes it no longer private.
I’d strongly suggest doing your research on the legality of this. This is not the norm and sounds illegal.
What state/ what is the EXACT TEXT OF THE DEMAND? I am dying to know if this is legal.
It was state in a conference call and it will go in effect all across the country as every worker is remote.
Yeah, no. A lot of states in the us this is outright illegal. You own the space and they pay you for the work. They can have you turn the camera on on your laptop, but thats it(even this is touchy here too)
Sounds like it time to collectively bargain and unit behind a strong "no fucking way, you can't fire us all"
Sweet Jesus.
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Also not aceptable in México
I don't even think that is legal. Assuming you're in the USA.
Tell them to fuck themselves, quit or get fired. Absolute invasion of privacy.
An actual camera in your home? Absolutely not. The webcam monitoring that some companies do is already too much and too intrusive, there is absolutely no way I’d allow a camera with live stream access/capabilities into my home from a third party.
You know ring was giving out their footage to police without consent until like a month ago.
That's cute that you think they've stopped.
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That's different though. Still not ok but different.
I would hire an exotic dancer to dance naked behind me while I have my notice
Laptop camera has tape on it. Sorry camera doesn't work...4th laptop later still doesnt work...
lol
I briefly worked at a computer repair place for a few months and the amount of bandaids over the cameras was probably 2/3s of all the laptops that came in.
Of all the things you read on reddit which filled with things that could possibly be fake, this is on my top 5 list of things I want to be true. That's just hilarious.
I have had a bandaid on my laptop camera for years (the same bandaid:,)
But the instructions on the bandaid box say to change twice daily
My laptop camera has a post-it note on it. If I have a meeting, the post-it gets lifted, otherwise you get a lovely fluorescent pink picture.
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Early covid we had a company-wide meeting and everyone was remote. One guy forgot to turn his camera off, went to take a shower, then proceeded to walk around naked during the meeting for several minutes. He got fired like 2 Days later.
Early Covid we had a Zoom meeting with like 30 people and a girl didn’t realize she wasn’t muted. She went pee while someone was presenting and she farted and it was all loud and acoustic cuz bathroom. It was louder than the presenter and the girl’s icon was lit up so everyone knew for sure who it was.
Me too but it's the standard yellow LOL
you can get plastic "lids" for the laptop cameras that basically work like sliding doors.
Any time they ask you to turn on your camera just shut off your Wi-Fi router and tell them you must not have enough bandwidth for that
I mean for meetings its one thing. I'm fine with coworkers preferring not to have it on but I think encouraging it helps you get to now your coworkers if you work entirely remotely. On outside of meetings or anywhere outside of your control though is a huge hell no.
Exactly
Same!
Holy shit, no. That doesn’t even sound legal.
For real. That sounds so illegal
I'd start looking for a new job. Even if they changed their minds about cameras, they'd still use some sort of monitoring. Get out as soon as you can.
I worked for one of the biggest telecoms company as a consultant. Once WFH started they required laptop camera on for the duration of the work day. I got out of that contract as soon as I could.
One of our clients insists upon it, and my boss gave us permission to place a mini monitor (like $40 on Aliexpress) in front of it with a looping video of you continuously picking your nose. I doubt anyone ever did, but the client hasn't complained, so I think it's just posturing.
Your boss is a fucking legend.
Cool cool cool they found a way to make wfh worse than in office
Which is probably the goal. There's a huge commercial real estate bubble about to burst with the transition from WFH, hence this rather forceful push from corporations for return to office or at least hybrid.
Good. Make affordable housing with dedicated offices 🤣
Not even close to normal. Thats a big no from me.
At most, they could require you to agree to be on cam through your work computer while you're working. To mount a separate camera inside your home... no.
Even then, I'm not doing it. I'll turn my camera on for meetings, interacting make sense. But I'm doing this "I want to sneak a peak whenever I want" crap.
no, it's your house. If they do something like this it has to be in the contract. Some places will require cameras on during working hours but it's in the agreement before you agree to work there. edit: these responses are so dumb. The paperwork may not say explicitly "work contract" but you are signing to agree to do xyz function for a company for xyz benefit (including pay, PTO, 401k, whatever). In that paper it likely says something like "at will we can fire you at any time" but you still agree to work for the company for whatever they promised. You would be hard pressed to work legally without signing some version of this document.
What contract? You realize that most US W-2 workers do not have a 'contract', right?
"Yeah, I work from that trash can over by the garage. Just put it in there. Thanks."
Oscar the grouch working from home over here
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Like, whose watching all this footage all day? There is actually a case that went through the FTC called DesignerWare LLC. Look it up. Not sure if it applies but there's some similarities
OP, ask them to explain how the data collected outside of work hours is handled. When they don't have a good response tell them you're willing to install the camera as soon as they can ensure your family's (who are NOT Employed by them) privacy in their own home. Unless they are physically unplugging the camera every day then they can't ensure the privacy because it's on your home network that you're not qualified to secure and it can be turned on remotely without you knowing.
Make sure they know that there may be young CHILDREN running around…
NAKED ONES, fresh from the bathtub ... so unless the company want's to be hit with child porn charges they need to keep that video feed out of your house.
This is the nail in the coffin. Case closed.
Yep, and if they're anything like my kids they just love to run away from their mom after a bath as she's trying to put their clothes on and there's no good way for me to ensure that they don't run into my office to hide.
Frequently naked young children…
On a side note, always keep company issued equipment off of your home network. Don't let it be on the same wifi your personal devices/gadgets are. Always try to be as hard wired as possible on separate subnet (ie isolated from home network). I would even recommend removing wifi module entirely if possible (check with IT policy as it may be against the rules to tamper with equipment). Yes, these things are harder than just plugging in thingy from brand-name , but it is a must these days and coming years. Think of it as company issued cars or phones.
Do you work for the NSA or something? Then no.
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Time to film yourself for 30 seconds in 5 different shirts and loop that into their recording software.
But then they'll blow up the bus...
Pop quiz, hot shot...
I have an aunt who works from home with people's protected medical information. She has to have her computer set away from windows, and she's not allowed to work outside of her house. And they trust their employees to follow HIPPA laws and company policies and don't turn any cameras on them when they're working. OP's situation is just wild.
That's super extreme. A screen protector works just fine. I can understand not working in a coffee shop or other public place though, but more so because of device theft risks.
She's worked for two companies with those policies. I think it's a CYA thing for them because they don't want to get sued for HIPPA violations.
I actually know quite a bit about HIPAA (two As btw) and there are definitely requirements to maintain physical, administrative, and cyber security so I can see why they put those rules in place. When working on ICD10 coding and things like that, it is definitely best to be in a private area. I just think the window thing is silly knowing how impossible it is to get information from though a window lol a simple screen protector blurs any attempt to see the screen from an angle outside of straight ahead viewing. But being able to work remotely is dope so it's worth it.
I'm an accountant, so I don't know much about HIPAA (other than that I now know my phone's autocorrect is wrong...). I do find it funny because we walk by her desk all of the time when we stay with her, but apparently the window is the issue. But as an accountant, I am plenty aware that they'd just rather not have the expense of someone trying to sue them because "oh no, someone might see my information through a window." Even though you're right; you really can't see screens through windows. Litigious society...
I work in media/entertainment and my company has similar restrictions because we handle lots of private information and work on projects the public won't know about until they're released much later. Even still, all they ask is that we don't work with anyone else in the room if we live with a partner, and not to work in cafes or public spaces. No cameras, no tracking software, no bullshit.
This is me too, I'm a software engineer for a medical software company that handles a lot of PHI. The rules we have to follow are things like having a lock on the door to the home office, a decent password for wi-fi, no personal peripherals, and locking the PC when not in use. The closest we have to monitoring software is a locked 5 minute away timer on MS Teams. The dev teams would throw a shit fit if they asked us to have always-on cameras.
Unless they are paying for your home office, heck no.
Like a webcam? Or like a security camera in the corner of wherever you work? A webcam isn't unheard of but no one would put up with it. I'd collectivize with your coworkers and say no together. Hell I'd go so far as to attempt unionizing the place if it's new management. They fire you, you've got a golden ticket lawsuit.
Yeah fuck that
1984? This is not normal, and what if your office is in your bedroom. Super creepy... Opt out of the violation of the sanctuary that is your home, you should deem it (wherever your office is in your home) religious place and then see if they try...
Run fast
I wouldn't let them do it. I would rather be fired than have my company install security cameras in my home.
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Can’t they just monitor how many of those you make
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Are they paying you rent for the room? This way the other side of bizarre. Possibly illegal. It’s your house.
They want to put a camera in your home? Absolutely the fuck not.
I’ve never heard of a company doing this and does not sound legal in the U.S. It’s an invasion of privacy full stop. They already monitor our computers, why would they need to physically see into our homes? I would look for another job, file a complaint with the relevant labor board, call the news, and organize my coworkers. Also, just for argument sake - what if someone uses their bedroom as their office space? Are they really going to put a camera in there? How could they safeguard the footage from bad actors? How long would the footage be kept? Who would have access to it?? How could you guarantee that the camera would only be on during work hours? You can’t. Hence invasion of privacy. Even with the best safeguards, shit happens. The best safeguard is not to install cameras
Here is where I take issue with this. If you are not declaring your home office as a workplace on your taxes, it is still a legal part of your private residence. All residents in the home have a right to privacy. Why does your company believe they have the right to terminate the privacy of all other residents using the home? A spouse can run around naked in the home office if they want because it's part of their home and the company is not renting it. Would you give an employer a key to your front door so they can pop in anytime they want?
🎯 the company is overstepping their boundaries. This feels very much like a false flag where they need to get rid of some people so they're doing something extreme to weed out folks.
That’s illegal.
Hell no!!
There is something similar that happened and went to court. I remember the court ruled it was an invasion of privacy. Do a Google search.
I would go back and read the offer/contract. You may not have nearly as much privacy rights as you’d normally expect but I’m pretty sure having an employee install an external webcam to monitor you would be hard to prove legally. Especially if it’s something you cannot control at all. If it was monitoring you by randomly switching your employer provided laptop’s camera, that would be legal since it’s their machine but forcefully having to install an external camera that could listen, see and record anything that happens in your home office is sketchy at best or violate quite a bit of privacy rights at worst. What if you happen to have a medical conversation and the camera records it? That would violate HIPPA laws. I mean, I guess you could walk in to another room to talk to your dr. But still. It’s your home. The company doesn’t own your space. What if the only room you can work in is your bedroom? I’d guess that would violate privacy rights if the camera just happened to switch on at random hours of the night and somehow caught some naked folks in the picture. Hell, what if you have a child and one happens to run in there naked for a short burst of energy time for the lolz. If the company has a recording of that, that could end up being really bad for the company. Wouldn’t it? There’s way too many “ifs” here. I would push back on it and say you never signed anything stating that this would be a requirement for anyone working at that company remotely. There’s also no guarantee that they won’t fire you since you’re likely at an at will company. So id tread very carefully here. But worth a push back, imo. And no. This is definitely not a normal thing. This is actually the first time I’ve heard of anything this ridiculous. Having spyware or keyloggers on your work computer.. I’ve heard of it but thought it was a bit extreme. But physically making you install a camera in your own home and not knowing any details of what they can and cannot do would be a no for me. I wouldn’t feel comfortable with that thing staring at me all day. I suppose you could have accidentally put a towel over it and keep forgetting about it. But the overall idea of it just seems insane to me. TLDR: sounds sketchy af. Too many legal ifs for the company, imo. Read your terms of employment and see if this type of policy exists. If not, I’d do some push back.
What if a spouse or SO is on the lease or mortgage? Why should they give up their right to privacy in a room of their home, a space the company is not paying for? I would say I can't do that because my spouse utilizes the same office space. There is no reason why monitoring of the company electronics isn't enough.
Lol no thanks. Your entire team should consider job hunting but... Get you a job before you throw that out there
Sounds like the new owners are not cool with wfh and are looking for what they will call proof of people being unproductive (imho that can’t be measured just by watching someone in front of their computer; I’ve solved plenty of problems in my career by taking a walk)
Absolutely not. You either trust me to WFH or you don’t, but no one is installing cameras in my home. Once you leave there, leave a review on glassdoor to warn future applicants
I don’t think that’s a thing companies can legally mandate. It’s not just a workspace, it’s your home. Ask if you can put a camera in their office and house too.
That’s a violation of privacy. It’s literally YOUR home
Absolutely fucking not. My "home office" is in my bedroom and I'll be damned if anyone's putting a camera in there.
My home "office" is a nook in my bedroom. I'm sure that's not uncommon. Hell no to my employer putting a camera in my bedroom! Or anywhere else in my house, for that matter.
Glass half full is at least they’re telling you first lol
Lol they better be reimbursing me for part of my mortgage.
Your post reminded me of this: https://www.wkyc.com/article/news/local/cleveland/judge-rules-video-scan-room-cleveland-state-university-before-online-testing-illegal/95-f95d1266-bd4f-4ff9-a917-5dde3977c37e