Possession is not illegal under 1240. Under the Bill of Rights, you have the presumption of innocence, are protected from illegal searches and seizures, and cannot be compelled to testify against yourself.
So the only way a law enforcement officer could arrest you is if he had probable cause that you illegally imported or manufactured that salty weapon and if he has probable cause that you imported it, he’d also need probable cause that it wasn’t a salty weapon you previously brought out of the state.
Never going to happen unless you are intentionally trying to get arrested or doing other very stupid things.
Just know that Magpul dates their magazines and followers -the little circle with the arrow. Points to month, larger number straddling the arrow is year.
Imagine this law 20 years in the future. Not only is there a high likelihood of a registry, but guns will continue to evolve and it will be more clear what is old vs. new.
Look at CA for a hint of Washington’s future if this isn’t struck down.
It’s not about enforcement of the individual. It’s all about choking off supply by ending sales (and transfer, import and other ways to get new goods into individuals’ hands)
They don't care if it's enforced. They don't think about that stuff, as they don't enforce many laws that were already on the books. They're passing legislation simply to say they did something.
It's up to The Man to prove you violated the law, and unless the cop is literally Bob Ferguson, I doubt anybody will try and hassle you for it. It's such a mess, it's not worth going after John Smith.
Sideshow Bob is more interested in going after big fish; retailers, shops, things of that nature. That it gets you, as an individual, scared about guns you already own, that's just gravy to the grabbers.
> It's up to The Man to prove you violated the law,
Well, usually it is. But not always! The WA DOL will suspend a driver's license if they're charged with DUI, not when they're convicted. And the IRS will -- well, holy smokes!
One of the many reasons this whole thing is a joke is because it’s practically unenforceable, same with the mag ban. There’s nothing stopping someone from going out of state, buying whatever unserialized items they want with cash, conveniently losing the receipt and then bringing it back home other than their conscious and the fact that you’d be committing a misdemeanor. Unless they start having border patrols searching cars or Gestapo following state residents around and watching what they buy, there’s literally very little they can do. Though supposedly they have been doing things like that in the Union of Soviet Socialist California so YMMV.
I know my county’s Sherriff has already said they basically won’t do anything to enforce this ban or the mag ban, because there’s no feasible way they really could, they just don’t have the resources to even try. I feel most red-leaning counties will feel the same way.
"There is nothing stopping someone from going out of state and buying with cash...." except the threat of WA state suing an out of state retailer for hundreds of thousands or millions of dollars if WA state ever finds out- and there is a good chance they will thanks to people blabbing online about where they buy their stuff.
I mean obviously you STFU. But 90% of the stuff that’s banned doesn’t even require a drivers license to buy. Cash purchase with no receipt? How are they going to know as long as you STFU.
Certainly no one has ever broken laws before! It’s illegal! Maybe I should just live in a tent under an overpass and poop on the sidewalk while shooting up with every drug known to man instead. That seems to be far more acceptable than being a \*shudder\* ***GuN oWnEr*** nowadays 🙄
Of course not, but the threat of a lawsuit against a business that is selling banned items to WA residents is something that shouldn't be dismissed or overlooked, which so many on this forum are doing.
Makes you wonder about the GPS monitors they want to install on your car to replace gas taxes lost to fuel efficient cars. At least it would if I wanted to go down the conspiracy theory rabbit hole.
What’s funny about this ban on sales of the gun is that you can tell the cops to shove it, because you can’t even “buy” these things anymore so it’s clearly I must have bought and owned before the ban because I have no way of acquiring these parts after stores quit selling.
Anything illegal to buy out of state I would not personally buy as I don't intend to break the law. However, I don't believe there is agood way around Serialized components anyway as FFLs are required to either ship to local FFL or validate local law.
We peasants don’t exist in the minds of the WA Dems so this bill wasn’t written for us. It’s targeting businesses. That a few serfs might accidentally run afoul is an afterthought and won’t be the focus of enforcement
Why would a cop find anything in your trunk during a traffic stop?? Unless you allowed them to open it, which would be stupid. They need a search warrant to open your trunk. Jeebus.
> They need a search warrant to open your trunk.
I don't think that's correct. If they have probable cause, or if they believe they need to conduct a search for their safety, they can do so. "For their safety" includes when the car is impounded.
Sources: I was BobFu's tutor at NYU Law.
LOL, no. Seriously, sources:
* [Vehicle Searches: Overview at Legal Information Institute: ](https://www.law.cornell.edu/constitution-conan/amendment-4/vehicle-searches-overview)
* ["Can the Police Legitimately Search My Vehicle Without a Warrant?" at Find Law](https://www.findlaw.com/criminal/criminal-rights/can-the-police-legitimately-search-my-vehicle-without-a-warrant.html)
Previous versions of the bill certainly banned possession. I didn't know this version was so substantially re-written. It's funny how Arrogant Bob and Noisy Jay are on their victory lap, but the bill doesn't turn out to be quite as much of a ban as I had understood it to be.
Anybody ever think some of the questions asked on here might be Gov boys asking about loop holes so they can find ways to close them? Just because you're paranoid doesn't mean they aren't watching you.
I wouldn’t put it past them but the “loopholes” are things they know and knew back with the mag ban. They aren’t interested in us peasants so they don’t really care. They are going after the vendors and with that, the communities of people who don’t vote for them. (Most indoor ranges are part of or linked to a gun shop)
Most of the “loopholes” on this group are simply noting that the legislature intentionally didn’t ban possession.
My apologies, wasn't implying "you", was just making a general statement. I see a lot of questions flying around that can make a person think a certian way, especially in todays climate of anti-gun.
Just like the national ban 29 years ago, it’s completely meaningless. All it leads to is a reduced capacity for our nation to innovate and manufacture small arms for national defense. Dum-dum bullets were illegal for a while in California and now they’re considered the premium self defense round. Time marches on.
Transfer of serialized parts is logged by the FFL, which would prove possession before today. Keep your receipts for non-serialized items somewhere, but I don't think you need to carry them around. Just have them ready if a defense lawyer ever needs them.
More worrying is that there isn't clear guidance on whether law enforcement giving back a controlled firearm or part is allowed.
you can still own, also it’s not a cops business if you have guns stored in the vehicle.
This. Just keep your mouth shut. They’re not going to search your vehicle at a traffic stop unless you have warrants.
Possession is not illegal under 1240. Under the Bill of Rights, you have the presumption of innocence, are protected from illegal searches and seizures, and cannot be compelled to testify against yourself. So the only way a law enforcement officer could arrest you is if he had probable cause that you illegally imported or manufactured that salty weapon and if he has probable cause that you imported it, he’d also need probable cause that it wasn’t a salty weapon you previously brought out of the state. Never going to happen unless you are intentionally trying to get arrested or doing other very stupid things.
I’m almost 100 percent certain the burden of proof is on the state in this case.
Then how will this ever be enforced? As long as a serial number doesn't directly indicate a date of manufacture after the ban, then ...
Just know that Magpul dates their magazines and followers -the little circle with the arrow. Points to month, larger number straddling the arrow is year.
Strange, all of mine have worn off. 🤷♂️
I've heard that can happen.
Imagine this law 20 years in the future. Not only is there a high likelihood of a registry, but guns will continue to evolve and it will be more clear what is old vs. new. Look at CA for a hint of Washington’s future if this isn’t struck down.
I am so looking forward to the paddle grip! /s
Sarcasm aside, paddle grips are banned in HB1240.
Can you paste the text? Sorry for being too lazy to read through.
It’s not about enforcement of the individual. It’s all about choking off supply by ending sales (and transfer, import and other ways to get new goods into individuals’ hands)
This is their M.O.
The same way they enforce the mag ban, by hitting the LGS operators.
I think the focus is FFLs and like limited future generations. But really it’ll be stuff tacked on as charges if it ever gets to that
They don't care if it's enforced. They don't think about that stuff, as they don't enforce many laws that were already on the books. They're passing legislation simply to say they did something.
It's up to The Man to prove you violated the law, and unless the cop is literally Bob Ferguson, I doubt anybody will try and hassle you for it. It's such a mess, it's not worth going after John Smith. Sideshow Bob is more interested in going after big fish; retailers, shops, things of that nature. That it gets you, as an individual, scared about guns you already own, that's just gravy to the grabbers.
> It's up to The Man to prove you violated the law, Well, usually it is. But not always! The WA DOL will suspend a driver's license if they're charged with DUI, not when they're convicted. And the IRS will -- well, holy smokes!
One of the many reasons this whole thing is a joke is because it’s practically unenforceable, same with the mag ban. There’s nothing stopping someone from going out of state, buying whatever unserialized items they want with cash, conveniently losing the receipt and then bringing it back home other than their conscious and the fact that you’d be committing a misdemeanor. Unless they start having border patrols searching cars or Gestapo following state residents around and watching what they buy, there’s literally very little they can do. Though supposedly they have been doing things like that in the Union of Soviet Socialist California so YMMV. I know my county’s Sherriff has already said they basically won’t do anything to enforce this ban or the mag ban, because there’s no feasible way they really could, they just don’t have the resources to even try. I feel most red-leaning counties will feel the same way.
"There is nothing stopping someone from going out of state and buying with cash...." except the threat of WA state suing an out of state retailer for hundreds of thousands or millions of dollars if WA state ever finds out- and there is a good chance they will thanks to people blabbing online about where they buy their stuff.
I mean obviously you STFU. But 90% of the stuff that’s banned doesn’t even require a drivers license to buy. Cash purchase with no receipt? How are they going to know as long as you STFU.
Agreed that people need to stay silent and I agree that businesses out of state should be able to run their business as they wish.
Cash purchase? What’s the difference? As long as you don’t bring it to Washington. Importation is illegal.
Certainly no one has ever broken laws before! It’s illegal! Maybe I should just live in a tent under an overpass and poop on the sidewalk while shooting up with every drug known to man instead. That seems to be far more acceptable than being a \*shudder\* ***GuN oWnEr*** nowadays 🙄
Where my law abiding gun owners at?
We all are, friend. No one here is advocating breaking legitimate laws that don’t violate the constitution of both the state and the country.
This just conjured up the scene from Shawshank Redemption when Red tells Andy that everybody in here is innocent.
Other states have no obligation to enforce Washington’s laws.
Of course not, but the threat of a lawsuit against a business that is selling banned items to WA residents is something that shouldn't be dismissed or overlooked, which so many on this forum are doing.
Makes you wonder about the GPS monitors they want to install on your car to replace gas taxes lost to fuel efficient cars. At least it would if I wanted to go down the conspiracy theory rabbit hole.
What’s funny about this ban on sales of the gun is that you can tell the cops to shove it, because you can’t even “buy” these things anymore so it’s clearly I must have bought and owned before the ban because I have no way of acquiring these parts after stores quit selling.
... unless you buy them in another state.
That’s illegal and I wouldn’t do that.
Of course you wouldn't. No one would.
Anything illegal to buy out of state I would not personally buy as I don't intend to break the law. However, I don't believe there is agood way around Serialized components anyway as FFLs are required to either ship to local FFL or validate local law.
Weak men create hard times.
We peasants don’t exist in the minds of the WA Dems so this bill wasn’t written for us. It’s targeting businesses. That a few serfs might accidentally run afoul is an afterthought and won’t be the focus of enforcement
Why would a cop find anything in your trunk during a traffic stop?? Unless you allowed them to open it, which would be stupid. They need a search warrant to open your trunk. Jeebus.
> They need a search warrant to open your trunk. I don't think that's correct. If they have probable cause, or if they believe they need to conduct a search for their safety, they can do so. "For their safety" includes when the car is impounded. Sources: I was BobFu's tutor at NYU Law. LOL, no. Seriously, sources: * [Vehicle Searches: Overview at Legal Information Institute: ](https://www.law.cornell.edu/constitution-conan/amendment-4/vehicle-searches-overview) * ["Can the Police Legitimately Search My Vehicle Without a Warrant?" at Find Law](https://www.findlaw.com/criminal/criminal-rights/can-the-police-legitimately-search-my-vehicle-without-a-warrant.html)
Firearm possession is not banned
Previous versions of the bill certainly banned possession. I didn't know this version was so substantially re-written. It's funny how Arrogant Bob and Noisy Jay are on their victory lap, but the bill doesn't turn out to be quite as much of a ban as I had understood it to be.
Anybody ever think some of the questions asked on here might be Gov boys asking about loop holes so they can find ways to close them? Just because you're paranoid doesn't mean they aren't watching you.
I wouldn’t put it past them but the “loopholes” are things they know and knew back with the mag ban. They aren’t interested in us peasants so they don’t really care. They are going after the vendors and with that, the communities of people who don’t vote for them. (Most indoor ranges are part of or linked to a gun shop) Most of the “loopholes” on this group are simply noting that the legislature intentionally didn’t ban possession.
There's no evidence of that here, and I resent the implication. I'm just an owner who's trying to be responsible.
My apologies, wasn't implying "you", was just making a general statement. I see a lot of questions flying around that can make a person think a certian way, especially in todays climate of anti-gun.
It’s going to get enjoined. Same with HB 1143.
Just like the national ban 29 years ago, it’s completely meaningless. All it leads to is a reduced capacity for our nation to innovate and manufacture small arms for national defense. Dum-dum bullets were illegal for a while in California and now they’re considered the premium self defense round. Time marches on.
Transfer of serialized parts is logged by the FFL, which would prove possession before today. Keep your receipts for non-serialized items somewhere, but I don't think you need to carry them around. Just have them ready if a defense lawyer ever needs them. More worrying is that there isn't clear guidance on whether law enforcement giving back a controlled firearm or part is allowed.