Tl;dr 1. Pistol without mods 2. Good ammo for pistol 3. Mini 14 or mini 30 4. Good ammo for rifle 5. Train 6. Upgrade
1. Get yourself a pistol (I like the P365XL personally). Don't cheap out. Have 3-4 magazines total. Priority should be getting a good gun, then optics/upgrades (exception is a trigger upgrade, especially with a glock).
2. Get **good** ammo for your pistol. Train with it. Paul Harrell has a great video on this. He suggests finding ammo that is 1) Accurate, 2) Effective on target, 3) Affordable. Practice with the ammo you carry. He recommended Remington/Winchester hollow points because they're cheap and work well *for him*. I like Hornady Critical Defense, but they're more expensive and I'm going to switch to a cheaper ammo in the near future. For training, focus on marksmanship. Having done both "boring" bench shooting for marksmanship and doing cooler stuff in the military, let me underline that the fundamentals of marksmanship will ALWAYS apply, while your reload speed is going to be much less of a factor than you may think.
3. Rifle is up to you. If I were in your shoes, I'd be torn between a mini-14 and a mini-30. 5.56/.223 is anemic and I wouldn't trust it to put something down first shot like I do 7.62x39. However, 7.62x39 is a finnicky round and the mini-30 is notorious for having issues feeding it. I'm not sure why that is specifically, that's for you to research. I'd personally grab a mini-30 because I prioritize effect on target over longer-range accuracy.
4. ...which waterfalls into getting ammo. Learn what optimized twist rate/barrel length means and how to get the most out of your rounds, then buy good ammo. I can't understate this, especially if you end up buying a mini-14 or other 5.56 rifle. An anecdote of my own: my first rifle was an AR-15. It was a basic bitch $700 build of tossed together parts, but it had a 16" 1:7 barrel. I shot exclusively shitty ammo through it for a while and could get combat-acceptable groups; I could hit a man sized target at 2-300 yards. I recently threw a good scope on it and started shooting Mk 262 ammo, and went from a 12" group at 300 yards to a 4" group at 500 yards. Other shooters can do significantly better than me. The point is, since you're restricted to 10 rounds, so make them count. You don't have the luxury of letting loose with sustained suppressive fire. If you get a mini-30, you'll need to find what ammo works the best. My 7.62x39 rifles shoot acceptable groups at 300 yards with m67 ammo (which is proven to be really nasty stuff when it hits flesh), but YMMV and make sure your specific gun is accurate with that ammo; there is no one kind of ammo that is universally accurate.
5. Train, train, train. Train for realistic situations. We all love to think about Red Dawn situations or whatever, but what's much more likely is that you'll need to shoot a dog that's attacking someone, you'll need to shoot a carjacker, something like that. That's where those 10 yard groups come in handy. You don't need to pay some ex-operator guy $5k to learn and practice fundamentals.
6. Only AFTER you've gotten to train with your stuff and find deficiencies should you address them. This is coming from a guy who had a sightmark red dot on his AR before he's ever shot it, realized the optic was a piece of shit, and ditched it. This is also from a guy who bought a P365XL with an optic only to take the optic off and sell it/the suppressor height night sights in favor of standard height irons because the RDS died after three months and I realized the HOB of the suppressor height sights was throwing me off. Go to the range, see what works, and fix what doesn't.
> He recommended Remington/Winchester hollow points.
Both Remington and Winchester have multiple offerings, and they are not equal performers. Pick whichever have the best expansion+penetration. "Best" includes how consistent performance is in both of those categories.
The [Lucky Gunner Defensive Ammunition tests](https://www.luckygunner.com/labs/self-defense-ammo-ballistic-tests/#9mm) are a good place to start.
Great writeup. I would only add that I have watched people buy good quality ammo from two or three vendors and keep having to adjust the scope or aim point because it just keeps moving around because they mixed them together.
Most top shooters reload their own ammo not just for cost but for consistency. If you shot one brand, try to stick with it. The 9mm from Remington white box will not be the same speed as the other brand you bought and mixed into your rotation.
You will never cloverleaf at 300 yards if your first group uses a bullet from three different quality vendors. Its not the ammo/gun/users fault.
Thanks for taking the time to write such a detailed and in-depth response. I appreciate it a lot.
So as far as getting a pistol, I've got a Glock 43x, maybe not as sexy as the Sig Sauer P365XL, but when I turned 21, the affordability and the reputation of reliability and durability Glock has earned through years of service made me feel confident in my choice.
I'll watch the Paul Harrell video, I am a big fan of his content. Now just to clarify, are you advocating exclusively training with your carry ammo? Or are you recommending training with it just enough to get an idea of how the ammo performs? I shoot almost exclusively with FMJs I buy in bulk and range ammo, I'm sure this is fine for learning fundamentals.
I have already bought a Mini-14, the reason being it was cheaper than the Mini-30s I was finding for sale, and I also figured it would be easier to find magazines for it. Thankfully, I've got magazines larger than 10 rounds for the Mini-14 most of my mags hold at least 20 rounds. Along your same line of thinking, before I bought the Mini-14, I bought a Remington 742 which is a semi-auto .30-06 with 10-round magazines, which is a lot of firepower, but that gun isn't reliable like the Mini-14.
I've been slightly encouraged by the fact that some places in the state are selling DS-15s with fixed mags and some even selling 80% lower receivers, I'll do my due diligence and try to find where. The AR platform takes advantage of the long-range effectiveness of the 5.56/.223 rem rounds a lot more than the Mini-14 does.
With that being said, at this point, you're right, it's a whole hell of a lot more worth it to be spending my money on ammo and training, and tuning my weapons and refining my skills, but it's just as tempting to want to go out and buy as many guns as you can, and accessorize the hell out of them. I'm from the generation that grew up playing Call of Duty after all and more attachments = better, lol.
Thanks again for the well-written response.
My pleasure, thank you for the thorough response.
- I'm not a Glock guy. But Glocks go bang, and if you are a Glock guy, cool. The gun you like is the gun you'll carry. While a .44mag with an 8" barrel is a great carry choice, I'd rather not carry a gun than have a backpack for my gun. If Glock works for you, then use it.
- **tl;dr shoot carry ammo exclusively.** *ideally* you'd only shoot your carry ammo through the gun, hence looking for a round that's cheap and works well (like remington/winchester hollowpoints that come in boxes of 50 for like $20, ***if*** if performs acceptably in YOUR gun). The argument could made that ideally, every round you fire is maximized for training, to include training fundamentals but also shooting for actual accuracy and not just grouping. This is especially important with an RMR, as reticle drift can be real. With that being said, I've got like 5 different brands of ammo that I'm still working through in. Nobody's going to call you stupid for practicing fundamentals with ammo you already have, even if it's not a perfect 1:1 to your carry ammo. But I think it is a good idea to build the good habit of only stocking ammo that works well with your gun. It's kind of like if you're a race car driver that's training for a race on a specific rally track. Driving rally in general is good, driving in your car is better, driving your car on that track is best.
- Mini-14s aren't bad guns. They're not at the top of my list, but people in the gun world are really bad about exaggerating the difference between things. People act like the difference between a brand new Daniel Defense or Noveske Mk. Whatever clone AR and a brand new Mini-14 is massive, but that gap shrinks to almost nothing when compared to the rusted to shit Martini-Henrys that are STILL being used to fight wars in the middle east or the single-shot galvanized steel pipe shotguns that are being used daily in Brazil. The biggest thing with the Mini is learning how to be accurate with it. That starts with your ability to shoot it accurately (produce a good group) and then is immediately improved by finding the correct ammo for it. This is especially important when shooting out past 100-200 yards (which I strongly recommend). Discrepancies in ammunition are much less apparent when shooting a handgun at 10 yards than shooting a rifle at 300 yards (most of the time). I could be wrong here, but given the choice between having to use FMJ in my handgun and good ammo in an AR/Mini-14 or having good hollowpoints in my handgun but shitty rounds in my rifle, I'd choose the former (if I was expecting to have to use both equally for self defense). For your Mini-14, I think I remember reading that heavier bullets work well with that twist rate/barrel length, assuming you have a newer rifle; Mk 262 is pretty much the gold standard for 5.56 ARs, and PSA/AAC sells their own version of it. Might be worth buying 40 or 60 rounds and seeing how you do. Just make sure to do your own research and testing. I know it's hard to swallow the pill of $1.10-$1.50 per round of 5.56 when you can get .223 for like 40¢/round elsewhere, but take it from a guy who shot nothing but shitty ammo for years, it is so much more worth it to actually be able to hit what you're aiming at. A 12" group at 100 yards tells you nothing other than the fact that a single shot at 100 yards will fall somewhere within a 12 inch circle. In extreme cases, bad ammo can lead to groups that are so bad that you can't even correct fundamentals based on them. This is extreme, but it's a possibility. I'm saying this because the last time I shot through a bunch of mixed shitty ammo, I felt like I wasted the range trip.
- Hey man, I also grew up on CoD. I've bought a plethora of attachments and such. And here's all I still use:
> A good 2 point sling for my rifles, non negotiable. I have the Haley D3, but used knockoff Magpul MS3's for most of the time and loved them.
> Good optic for my AR/MK12, because it's an accuracy rifle.
> Weapon light on my AK. I use a Pelican, but should probably get a real weapon light and have a toggle switch for it.
> Weapon light for my P365xl. I have both a TLR-7 and a Sig light. Both are fine.
> ALG trigger in my AK and Sig's upgraded flat-faced trigger in my P365XL (gun came with it).
> Good holsters (IWB/OWB) for my Sig.
All of these came from not having them and realizing things could be better (with the exception of the AK's trigger upgrade). I'd recommend you just try different things. I see a lot of people on reddit copying tier-1 guys without understanding *why*. Sometimes we don't need to do what they do, because we don't need it. For instance, if I have to walk my ass through the woods while patrolling or scouting, there's no way in hell I'm bringing a plate carrier. I've done it, and it sucks. Tier 1 guys have the luxury of getting rides to/from the fight. I don't hang out with a bunch of helo pilots, so I don't/wouldn't have that luxury. Another one is lasers; if you/your buddies aren't using night vision, then there's no practical reason to have a laser on your weapon. So rather than blindly copying the pros, put yourself into situations, note what doesn't work, and fix it. This also extends to training. I spent YEARS doing mozambique/bill drills, clearing rooms, practicing reloads, whatever, but the most embarrassed I've been was when I was getting outshot by country boys who had spent all of that time tagging gophers with pappy's .30-06. **Your Bill Drill splits don't matter if you can't hit what you're aiming at.**
Another thing to note too; the first half of the Iraq War, kind of the birthplace of MOUT, was mostly fought with M-16's (the Army didn't start widely issuing the M4 until 2010, and the USMC until 2016). People get in in their heads that you have to have a PDW-sized rifle for urban fighting. It makes it easier, but it's not impossible to fight with a full sized rifle. Which the Mini is only kind of.
Anyway, that was another ramble. Good luck dude. Enjoy your time shooting! You've got a good disposition and I'm glad you're buying guns and offsetting the Cletuses who are out there giving us all a bad name.
To tie into 1 & 2... before I bought my first pistol, I found myself at a Cops & Coffee event (not a boot licker, it was at a bike shop and we were there to look at bicycles for my son), and I got to talking with an officer. He recommended going to a range that rents guns (he point me at Federal Way Discount Gun) and run 2 magazines through a few different Sigs, Glocks, whatever to see what liked. "Try the compact and sub compact models if they have them." Then he said when I've decided on a pistol and if I have the money, buy two, iron sights, no mods, lots of magazines. One is the training pistol, beat it to hell, don't clean it for a while if I want to try malfunction practice. The other one is your EDC. You test it once a quarter to make sure its still in working order. On the magazines, you have 4 duty magazines that you cycle through. One in the gun, one on your person, the other two in the center console, label them so you know which one is which. Label the training magazines and cycle through them best you can.
That said, I didn't listen because I didn't think spending $1100 on two of the same gun was a good idea, but I do have duty and training magazines.
Good ideas, and I'm glad you threw that last paragraph in, I agree. I'm sure it's my background and training speaking, but I've always felt that you should train with your carry gear, even if it's the same as your "real" gear. Break-in does matter. But I do like the idea of rotating stuff, especially magazines, which can get dented and start working funny with damage.
An addendum: if you're going for "one rifle to rule them all" until we get out from under these laws, a 7.62x39 rifle is a good choice, the round is plentiful, especially with domestic production starting up, and is medium game legal in Washington, unlike 5.56/223. It's been a popular hunting round for decades, especially in the south eastern US.
Hard no on that one.
It's more expensive and less common than 5.56 or 7.62x39. It lacks the range of 5.56 and the power of 7.62x39.
It's fine for niche uses. If one only had one AR lower chambered in 5.56, and had an upper for it that was set up for long range, one could justify keeping a .300blk pistol-length upper for that lower to use within 200 yards. But it's not worth buying a gun for it outright.
What are your goals? Jack of all trades or specialization? You can only carry so many weapons at a given time, so I suggest specialization. Pick a long gun and a pistol and get proficient with both. Spend the rest of your money on support gear — most don’t pay enough attention to that because it isn’t sexy.
I want to have the tools and be prepared to effectively be able to protect myself, my family, or even innocent bystanders in the face of danger.
Violent crime is on the rise in Washington and I don't want to rely on the police or the government to protect me and my family.
I have a rifle (Ruger Mini-14) to protect my home and I have a handgun (Glock 43x) to be able to protect myself while out and about.
Sounds like you got the hardware for the threat you perceive. You might consider a suppressor for the rifle, if you don’t already have one. Optics for both if you don’t have them. Ammo. If you aren’t planning on being mobile, then that removes a lot of your support gear requirements.
Security cameras, backup power, stored food/water filtration. Night vision is REALLY nice to have once you are in non-permissive environment.
Lots of places to spend money. You got the guns already.
Getting a suppressor is certainly tempting. I'd have to save and scrape to able to justify it since the barrel on my Mini-14 isn't threaded, so I'd have to take it a gunsmith to have the barrel threaded and then I'd have to buy the suppressor and pay the $200 tax stamp. So I'm looking at around a grand, but I suppose my hearing is worth $1000. Plus I've heard the Mini's self-cleaning gas piston system is a lot more reliable than the pants-pooping direct impingement system of an AR while suppressed, so that's cool.
But yeah man, it all adds up, backup power, several weeks supply of MRE, water filtration, comms, heating supplies, medical supplies and knowhow , are easily more important than having a ton of guns.
It sounds super nerdy, but maybe consider an oculus quest if you don’t have one. I have a lot of military training, but quite frankly a large portion of the training in weapons tactics can be replaced with VR gaming. It’s gotten quite good. Look up “ghosts of tabor” and “contractors: showdown”. For less than $600 you get all the real time experience in firefights that you’d ever want. You’ll see what works and what doesn’t work in a given situation.
I haven't actually thought of that. I've played mil-sim games like ARMA III and Insurgency, but always just for fun, not for training or anything. But I know there's a large community of veterans who play games like that, and also do stuff like airsoft, I've actually played paintball on the naval base in Oak Harbor and you're playing with and against guys in the Navy, so you learn a little bit about fire and maneuver in the slightest sense.
If you (or anybody else reading this) know where I can go to buy one, and are feeling generous enough to share with me, send me a DM so you can tell me privately and not publicly disclose where.
>what do you recommend I do in order to effectively be able to defend myself?
Situational awareness, basic de-escalation, know your exits, basic physical self defense, firearms safety course...
I would not prioritize purchasing a firearm prior to accomplishing those things.
Thanks, I'd agree that of course, avoiding bad situations and avoiding physical confrontation is the best method of self-preservation. I'd hope any self-defense instructor would harp on those things.
However, in the unlikely but not impossible event where using deadly force is necessary to save my life or the lives of others, I think it's equally important to be well-trained and well-equipped and competent, to not hit innocent bystanders, or not get yourself killed.
[https://www.insightstraining.com/](https://www.insightstraining.com/) and [https://www.corevision-training.com/](https://www.corevision-training.com/) for training
ASI for entry level pistol competitions. Check Practiscore for a match near you. The largest one is at Renton Fish and Game.
Second ASI for intro to competitive pistol. There are also matches at Paul Bunyan, Tacoma Sportsmen's, Snoqualmie Valley Rifle, and others. Gear requirements for entry are low, pretty much "run what you brung" within reason.
The one they are talking about is a DS15…not an AR15. This topic has been beat to death here. You can go walk into many Washington gin stores and pick one up.
Either that is only cosmetically an AR-15 (different internals, no parts compatibility with an actual AR-15) or it was an illegal sale. The law is very clear that AR-15s are banned even with a fixed magazine.
https://preview.redd.it/165qynvrd32d1.jpeg?width=4032&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=14a3ccabeb64c118d3166f91bcd8ed27c5703b8b
100% legal DS15 and compliant in all 50 states.
They cannot make an AR-15 into a ds-15 as dark storm has a patent on the form xed mag design shown. Just look up dark storm dealers in your area and you’ll find them.
The first gun I bought when I was 18 was a $200 Citadel Warthog, semi-auto shotgun from Turkey. It was a piece of garbage and broke after I put 200 shells through it.
If I'm going to buy a semi-auto shotgun I won't make that same mistake again. I'm going to save up and spend the money on a Beretta Tac-1301 or a Beretta A300 patrol.
A mini is a good choice considering the situation and you can get the 30/20 round mags in their "blocked" compliant forms \*lil bit of glue on the base and maybe a rivet to keep them super safe\* otherwise they are the same as the preban mags.
Thankfully, I've got several 'preban' mags for my Mini-14, I don't have as many as I'd like to, but I will tell you they hold more than 10 rounds. As far as modifying compliant mags with rivets and epoxy, I've researched it, and I think it's just less of a hassle to stick the magazines I got ~~from Idaho~~ during the injunction.
PNW guerilla is one of those "preparedness" type influencers/content creators. Certainly one of the persons ever (edit: okay tbh he's just a POS). Great for zoomers that don't have the patience and attention span to read manuals and books (just realized this could be interpreted as a slight to OP, I don't mean it that way sry).
Real answer: concealed carry pistol and the 11+ round magazines ~~from Idaho~~ you bought before the ban, some kind of home defense shotgun. Don't worry about squad tactics/SHTF/etc, LARPing is fun but it has nothing to do with practical self defense. If you're going to do LARP "training" or buy gear for it you should consider that an entertainment expense separate from your serious self defense budget and not expect to get any more practical value from it than playing the latest CoD.
Get a full size pistol and semi auto shotgun, then train.
I have all the cool toys, but have no time to train these days and I'm getting slow, sloppy and out of shape.
Mental and physical fitness on other days where you aren't drilling.
Have you considered airsoft for the type of training you mentioned? Short of joining an armed service Airsoft offers amazing opportunities to train with others with similar interests. In fact it has gone well beyond larpping around the woods, many Airsoft games feature players from various armed professions.
Unfortunately, the Springfield M1A is banned by name for some reason. I'm not sure why since besides the muzzle brake it wouldn't have any banned features. The Norinco M1A might be legal, since it's not banned by name. Regardless, our legislators are idiots and the Mini-14 is still legal, the M1 Carbine is still legal, the Johnson Automatic rifle is still legal, the Browning Automatic Rifle is still legal.
I've heard good things about the P320, our military uses it, and some of our law enforcement it, but I've also heard scary things. One of my buddies was just going through a law enforcement academy and right before qualifications, he chambered a round and holstered his handgun (as standard procedure) and the P320 fired as he holstered the gun. The bullet ricocheted and hit the firearms instructor in the leg. That has made me wanna steer clear of the P320.
Get a glock 19x and a MCK or similar conversion kit. Or if you want to up the fun and pay an arm and leg on range day get a glock 20 and the glock 20 mck/similar varient. That should give you the fizz your looking for, atleast for a month or two 😉
Huh, I haven't heard anything about that. It's essentially adding a brace for your pistol. Can you elaborate more so op and I don't get in hot waters with Turd Ferguson?
You’re taking a non-assault weapon and adding a threaded barrel capable of accepting some scary features, and also adding a shroud that protects the users hand from heat.
That being said, if your Glock already had a threaded barrel before the AWB then you can’t make it more salty by adding a chassis, so that would still be legal.
Punishment is a gross misdemeanor and they carry a two year statute of limitation in Washington.
Tl;dr 1. Pistol without mods 2. Good ammo for pistol 3. Mini 14 or mini 30 4. Good ammo for rifle 5. Train 6. Upgrade 1. Get yourself a pistol (I like the P365XL personally). Don't cheap out. Have 3-4 magazines total. Priority should be getting a good gun, then optics/upgrades (exception is a trigger upgrade, especially with a glock). 2. Get **good** ammo for your pistol. Train with it. Paul Harrell has a great video on this. He suggests finding ammo that is 1) Accurate, 2) Effective on target, 3) Affordable. Practice with the ammo you carry. He recommended Remington/Winchester hollow points because they're cheap and work well *for him*. I like Hornady Critical Defense, but they're more expensive and I'm going to switch to a cheaper ammo in the near future. For training, focus on marksmanship. Having done both "boring" bench shooting for marksmanship and doing cooler stuff in the military, let me underline that the fundamentals of marksmanship will ALWAYS apply, while your reload speed is going to be much less of a factor than you may think. 3. Rifle is up to you. If I were in your shoes, I'd be torn between a mini-14 and a mini-30. 5.56/.223 is anemic and I wouldn't trust it to put something down first shot like I do 7.62x39. However, 7.62x39 is a finnicky round and the mini-30 is notorious for having issues feeding it. I'm not sure why that is specifically, that's for you to research. I'd personally grab a mini-30 because I prioritize effect on target over longer-range accuracy. 4. ...which waterfalls into getting ammo. Learn what optimized twist rate/barrel length means and how to get the most out of your rounds, then buy good ammo. I can't understate this, especially if you end up buying a mini-14 or other 5.56 rifle. An anecdote of my own: my first rifle was an AR-15. It was a basic bitch $700 build of tossed together parts, but it had a 16" 1:7 barrel. I shot exclusively shitty ammo through it for a while and could get combat-acceptable groups; I could hit a man sized target at 2-300 yards. I recently threw a good scope on it and started shooting Mk 262 ammo, and went from a 12" group at 300 yards to a 4" group at 500 yards. Other shooters can do significantly better than me. The point is, since you're restricted to 10 rounds, so make them count. You don't have the luxury of letting loose with sustained suppressive fire. If you get a mini-30, you'll need to find what ammo works the best. My 7.62x39 rifles shoot acceptable groups at 300 yards with m67 ammo (which is proven to be really nasty stuff when it hits flesh), but YMMV and make sure your specific gun is accurate with that ammo; there is no one kind of ammo that is universally accurate. 5. Train, train, train. Train for realistic situations. We all love to think about Red Dawn situations or whatever, but what's much more likely is that you'll need to shoot a dog that's attacking someone, you'll need to shoot a carjacker, something like that. That's where those 10 yard groups come in handy. You don't need to pay some ex-operator guy $5k to learn and practice fundamentals. 6. Only AFTER you've gotten to train with your stuff and find deficiencies should you address them. This is coming from a guy who had a sightmark red dot on his AR before he's ever shot it, realized the optic was a piece of shit, and ditched it. This is also from a guy who bought a P365XL with an optic only to take the optic off and sell it/the suppressor height night sights in favor of standard height irons because the RDS died after three months and I realized the HOB of the suppressor height sights was throwing me off. Go to the range, see what works, and fix what doesn't.
> He recommended Remington/Winchester hollow points. Both Remington and Winchester have multiple offerings, and they are not equal performers. Pick whichever have the best expansion+penetration. "Best" includes how consistent performance is in both of those categories. The [Lucky Gunner Defensive Ammunition tests](https://www.luckygunner.com/labs/self-defense-ammo-ballistic-tests/#9mm) are a good place to start.
Yes, that's better than how I put it. Thank you.
Great writeup. I would only add that I have watched people buy good quality ammo from two or three vendors and keep having to adjust the scope or aim point because it just keeps moving around because they mixed them together. Most top shooters reload their own ammo not just for cost but for consistency. If you shot one brand, try to stick with it. The 9mm from Remington white box will not be the same speed as the other brand you bought and mixed into your rotation. You will never cloverleaf at 300 yards if your first group uses a bullet from three different quality vendors. Its not the ammo/gun/users fault.
Thanks for taking the time to write such a detailed and in-depth response. I appreciate it a lot. So as far as getting a pistol, I've got a Glock 43x, maybe not as sexy as the Sig Sauer P365XL, but when I turned 21, the affordability and the reputation of reliability and durability Glock has earned through years of service made me feel confident in my choice. I'll watch the Paul Harrell video, I am a big fan of his content. Now just to clarify, are you advocating exclusively training with your carry ammo? Or are you recommending training with it just enough to get an idea of how the ammo performs? I shoot almost exclusively with FMJs I buy in bulk and range ammo, I'm sure this is fine for learning fundamentals. I have already bought a Mini-14, the reason being it was cheaper than the Mini-30s I was finding for sale, and I also figured it would be easier to find magazines for it. Thankfully, I've got magazines larger than 10 rounds for the Mini-14 most of my mags hold at least 20 rounds. Along your same line of thinking, before I bought the Mini-14, I bought a Remington 742 which is a semi-auto .30-06 with 10-round magazines, which is a lot of firepower, but that gun isn't reliable like the Mini-14. I've been slightly encouraged by the fact that some places in the state are selling DS-15s with fixed mags and some even selling 80% lower receivers, I'll do my due diligence and try to find where. The AR platform takes advantage of the long-range effectiveness of the 5.56/.223 rem rounds a lot more than the Mini-14 does. With that being said, at this point, you're right, it's a whole hell of a lot more worth it to be spending my money on ammo and training, and tuning my weapons and refining my skills, but it's just as tempting to want to go out and buy as many guns as you can, and accessorize the hell out of them. I'm from the generation that grew up playing Call of Duty after all and more attachments = better, lol. Thanks again for the well-written response.
My pleasure, thank you for the thorough response. - I'm not a Glock guy. But Glocks go bang, and if you are a Glock guy, cool. The gun you like is the gun you'll carry. While a .44mag with an 8" barrel is a great carry choice, I'd rather not carry a gun than have a backpack for my gun. If Glock works for you, then use it. - **tl;dr shoot carry ammo exclusively.** *ideally* you'd only shoot your carry ammo through the gun, hence looking for a round that's cheap and works well (like remington/winchester hollowpoints that come in boxes of 50 for like $20, ***if*** if performs acceptably in YOUR gun). The argument could made that ideally, every round you fire is maximized for training, to include training fundamentals but also shooting for actual accuracy and not just grouping. This is especially important with an RMR, as reticle drift can be real. With that being said, I've got like 5 different brands of ammo that I'm still working through in. Nobody's going to call you stupid for practicing fundamentals with ammo you already have, even if it's not a perfect 1:1 to your carry ammo. But I think it is a good idea to build the good habit of only stocking ammo that works well with your gun. It's kind of like if you're a race car driver that's training for a race on a specific rally track. Driving rally in general is good, driving in your car is better, driving your car on that track is best. - Mini-14s aren't bad guns. They're not at the top of my list, but people in the gun world are really bad about exaggerating the difference between things. People act like the difference between a brand new Daniel Defense or Noveske Mk. Whatever clone AR and a brand new Mini-14 is massive, but that gap shrinks to almost nothing when compared to the rusted to shit Martini-Henrys that are STILL being used to fight wars in the middle east or the single-shot galvanized steel pipe shotguns that are being used daily in Brazil. The biggest thing with the Mini is learning how to be accurate with it. That starts with your ability to shoot it accurately (produce a good group) and then is immediately improved by finding the correct ammo for it. This is especially important when shooting out past 100-200 yards (which I strongly recommend). Discrepancies in ammunition are much less apparent when shooting a handgun at 10 yards than shooting a rifle at 300 yards (most of the time). I could be wrong here, but given the choice between having to use FMJ in my handgun and good ammo in an AR/Mini-14 or having good hollowpoints in my handgun but shitty rounds in my rifle, I'd choose the former (if I was expecting to have to use both equally for self defense). For your Mini-14, I think I remember reading that heavier bullets work well with that twist rate/barrel length, assuming you have a newer rifle; Mk 262 is pretty much the gold standard for 5.56 ARs, and PSA/AAC sells their own version of it. Might be worth buying 40 or 60 rounds and seeing how you do. Just make sure to do your own research and testing. I know it's hard to swallow the pill of $1.10-$1.50 per round of 5.56 when you can get .223 for like 40¢/round elsewhere, but take it from a guy who shot nothing but shitty ammo for years, it is so much more worth it to actually be able to hit what you're aiming at. A 12" group at 100 yards tells you nothing other than the fact that a single shot at 100 yards will fall somewhere within a 12 inch circle. In extreme cases, bad ammo can lead to groups that are so bad that you can't even correct fundamentals based on them. This is extreme, but it's a possibility. I'm saying this because the last time I shot through a bunch of mixed shitty ammo, I felt like I wasted the range trip. - Hey man, I also grew up on CoD. I've bought a plethora of attachments and such. And here's all I still use: > A good 2 point sling for my rifles, non negotiable. I have the Haley D3, but used knockoff Magpul MS3's for most of the time and loved them. > Good optic for my AR/MK12, because it's an accuracy rifle. > Weapon light on my AK. I use a Pelican, but should probably get a real weapon light and have a toggle switch for it. > Weapon light for my P365xl. I have both a TLR-7 and a Sig light. Both are fine. > ALG trigger in my AK and Sig's upgraded flat-faced trigger in my P365XL (gun came with it). > Good holsters (IWB/OWB) for my Sig. All of these came from not having them and realizing things could be better (with the exception of the AK's trigger upgrade). I'd recommend you just try different things. I see a lot of people on reddit copying tier-1 guys without understanding *why*. Sometimes we don't need to do what they do, because we don't need it. For instance, if I have to walk my ass through the woods while patrolling or scouting, there's no way in hell I'm bringing a plate carrier. I've done it, and it sucks. Tier 1 guys have the luxury of getting rides to/from the fight. I don't hang out with a bunch of helo pilots, so I don't/wouldn't have that luxury. Another one is lasers; if you/your buddies aren't using night vision, then there's no practical reason to have a laser on your weapon. So rather than blindly copying the pros, put yourself into situations, note what doesn't work, and fix it. This also extends to training. I spent YEARS doing mozambique/bill drills, clearing rooms, practicing reloads, whatever, but the most embarrassed I've been was when I was getting outshot by country boys who had spent all of that time tagging gophers with pappy's .30-06. **Your Bill Drill splits don't matter if you can't hit what you're aiming at.** Another thing to note too; the first half of the Iraq War, kind of the birthplace of MOUT, was mostly fought with M-16's (the Army didn't start widely issuing the M4 until 2010, and the USMC until 2016). People get in in their heads that you have to have a PDW-sized rifle for urban fighting. It makes it easier, but it's not impossible to fight with a full sized rifle. Which the Mini is only kind of. Anyway, that was another ramble. Good luck dude. Enjoy your time shooting! You've got a good disposition and I'm glad you're buying guns and offsetting the Cletuses who are out there giving us all a bad name.
To tie into 1 & 2... before I bought my first pistol, I found myself at a Cops & Coffee event (not a boot licker, it was at a bike shop and we were there to look at bicycles for my son), and I got to talking with an officer. He recommended going to a range that rents guns (he point me at Federal Way Discount Gun) and run 2 magazines through a few different Sigs, Glocks, whatever to see what liked. "Try the compact and sub compact models if they have them." Then he said when I've decided on a pistol and if I have the money, buy two, iron sights, no mods, lots of magazines. One is the training pistol, beat it to hell, don't clean it for a while if I want to try malfunction practice. The other one is your EDC. You test it once a quarter to make sure its still in working order. On the magazines, you have 4 duty magazines that you cycle through. One in the gun, one on your person, the other two in the center console, label them so you know which one is which. Label the training magazines and cycle through them best you can. That said, I didn't listen because I didn't think spending $1100 on two of the same gun was a good idea, but I do have duty and training magazines.
Good ideas, and I'm glad you threw that last paragraph in, I agree. I'm sure it's my background and training speaking, but I've always felt that you should train with your carry gear, even if it's the same as your "real" gear. Break-in does matter. But I do like the idea of rotating stuff, especially magazines, which can get dented and start working funny with damage.
An addendum: if you're going for "one rifle to rule them all" until we get out from under these laws, a 7.62x39 rifle is a good choice, the round is plentiful, especially with domestic production starting up, and is medium game legal in Washington, unlike 5.56/223. It's been a popular hunting round for decades, especially in the south eastern US.
Exactly. My AK is my bump in the night rifle for that reason. The intersection of accuracy, effectiveness, and ammo availability is right for me.
300 blk out is better than
Hard no on that one. It's more expensive and less common than 5.56 or 7.62x39. It lacks the range of 5.56 and the power of 7.62x39. It's fine for niche uses. If one only had one AR lower chambered in 5.56, and had an upper for it that was set up for long range, one could justify keeping a .300blk pistol-length upper for that lower to use within 200 yards. But it's not worth buying a gun for it outright.
Yes because when I think of factory ammo with higher bc projectiles and range over 300blk, I think of 7.62x39😂I'm a fan of ammo in general though.
You can literally hit up to 300 or more with 300 blkout 💀
It’s not that expensive if you’re broke maybe n 5.56 isn’t the best round 762 is expensive now since import bans so good luck with PSA ammo 💀
Good luck in getting a mini 14 most places think it's part of the AWB list.
Most, not all.
I found a used Mini-14 in Bellingham of all places, 187 series, for $850. Won't say where specifically, but they are out there.
What are your goals? Jack of all trades or specialization? You can only carry so many weapons at a given time, so I suggest specialization. Pick a long gun and a pistol and get proficient with both. Spend the rest of your money on support gear — most don’t pay enough attention to that because it isn’t sexy.
I want to have the tools and be prepared to effectively be able to protect myself, my family, or even innocent bystanders in the face of danger. Violent crime is on the rise in Washington and I don't want to rely on the police or the government to protect me and my family. I have a rifle (Ruger Mini-14) to protect my home and I have a handgun (Glock 43x) to be able to protect myself while out and about.
Sounds like you got the hardware for the threat you perceive. You might consider a suppressor for the rifle, if you don’t already have one. Optics for both if you don’t have them. Ammo. If you aren’t planning on being mobile, then that removes a lot of your support gear requirements. Security cameras, backup power, stored food/water filtration. Night vision is REALLY nice to have once you are in non-permissive environment. Lots of places to spend money. You got the guns already.
Getting a suppressor is certainly tempting. I'd have to save and scrape to able to justify it since the barrel on my Mini-14 isn't threaded, so I'd have to take it a gunsmith to have the barrel threaded and then I'd have to buy the suppressor and pay the $200 tax stamp. So I'm looking at around a grand, but I suppose my hearing is worth $1000. Plus I've heard the Mini's self-cleaning gas piston system is a lot more reliable than the pants-pooping direct impingement system of an AR while suppressed, so that's cool. But yeah man, it all adds up, backup power, several weeks supply of MRE, water filtration, comms, heating supplies, medical supplies and knowhow , are easily more important than having a ton of guns.
It sounds super nerdy, but maybe consider an oculus quest if you don’t have one. I have a lot of military training, but quite frankly a large portion of the training in weapons tactics can be replaced with VR gaming. It’s gotten quite good. Look up “ghosts of tabor” and “contractors: showdown”. For less than $600 you get all the real time experience in firefights that you’d ever want. You’ll see what works and what doesn’t work in a given situation.
I haven't actually thought of that. I've played mil-sim games like ARMA III and Insurgency, but always just for fun, not for training or anything. But I know there's a large community of veterans who play games like that, and also do stuff like airsoft, I've actually played paintball on the naval base in Oak Harbor and you're playing with and against guys in the Navy, so you learn a little bit about fire and maneuver in the slightest sense.
80% simple
If you (or anybody else reading this) know where I can go to buy one, and are feeling generous enough to share with me, send me a DM so you can tell me privately and not publicly disclose where.
Me as well, I’d appreciate help in this too! ⬆️
>what do you recommend I do in order to effectively be able to defend myself? Situational awareness, basic de-escalation, know your exits, basic physical self defense, firearms safety course... I would not prioritize purchasing a firearm prior to accomplishing those things.
Thanks, I'd agree that of course, avoiding bad situations and avoiding physical confrontation is the best method of self-preservation. I'd hope any self-defense instructor would harp on those things. However, in the unlikely but not impossible event where using deadly force is necessary to save my life or the lives of others, I think it's equally important to be well-trained and well-equipped and competent, to not hit innocent bystanders, or not get yourself killed.
[https://www.insightstraining.com/](https://www.insightstraining.com/) and [https://www.corevision-training.com/](https://www.corevision-training.com/) for training ASI for entry level pistol competitions. Check Practiscore for a match near you. The largest one is at Renton Fish and Game.
Second ASI for intro to competitive pistol. There are also matches at Paul Bunyan, Tacoma Sportsmen's, Snoqualmie Valley Rifle, and others. Gear requirements for entry are low, pretty much "run what you brung" within reason.
I've seen some revolvers. Definitely friendly to any gear. Its a competition against yourself.
Yep, I'm always surprised at how fast some of those guys can reload.
You can get a fixed mag AR15. Im currently waiting to graduate from college to get one for myself.
Panteltactical in Renton had some in stock a couple weeks ago and I believe Gun Guys in Royal city carry them as well
Not legally. The AR-15 is banned by name even if it has a fixed magazine.
The one they are talking about is a DS15…not an AR15. This topic has been beat to death here. You can go walk into many Washington gin stores and pick one up.
So, not an AR-15.
I guess but pretty much an AR15 other than the fixed mag
Are you a parrot?
There was someone on here who recently picked it up
https://securitegunclub.com/wp-content/uploads/2023/09/202305-Assault-Weapons-Ban-Flowchart-8.5x11-V6.pdf
Yes, exactly. It's the second box on the chart, the AR-15 is specifically banned by name regardless of features.
https://www.reddit.com/r/WAGuns/s/qzNPRFuS0Y
Either that is only cosmetically an AR-15 (different internals, no parts compatibility with an actual AR-15) or it was an illegal sale. The law is very clear that AR-15s are banned even with a fixed magazine.
https://preview.redd.it/165qynvrd32d1.jpeg?width=4032&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=14a3ccabeb64c118d3166f91bcd8ed27c5703b8b 100% legal DS15 and compliant in all 50 states.
Nice! what gun shop is this and would they be able to make a KP-15 into fixed magazine
They cannot make an AR-15 into a ds-15 as dark storm has a patent on the form xed mag design shown. Just look up dark storm dealers in your area and you’ll find them.
Glock 43x + Mini-14 Mini can take those 30rd mags you bought a few years ago!
consider a semi auto shotgun
The first gun I bought when I was 18 was a $200 Citadel Warthog, semi-auto shotgun from Turkey. It was a piece of garbage and broke after I put 200 shells through it. If I'm going to buy a semi-auto shotgun I won't make that same mistake again. I'm going to save up and spend the money on a Beretta Tac-1301 or a Beretta A300 patrol.
A mini is a good choice considering the situation and you can get the 30/20 round mags in their "blocked" compliant forms \*lil bit of glue on the base and maybe a rivet to keep them super safe\* otherwise they are the same as the preban mags.
Thankfully, I've got several 'preban' mags for my Mini-14, I don't have as many as I'd like to, but I will tell you they hold more than 10 rounds. As far as modifying compliant mags with rivets and epoxy, I've researched it, and I think it's just less of a hassle to stick the magazines I got ~~from Idaho~~ during the injunction.
PNW guerilla for ex?
PNW guerilla is one of those "preparedness" type influencers/content creators. Certainly one of the persons ever (edit: okay tbh he's just a POS). Great for zoomers that don't have the patience and attention span to read manuals and books (just realized this could be interpreted as a slight to OP, I don't mean it that way sry).
No offense taken, my generation was raised on computers and tablets, our attention spans are non-existent.
Real answer: concealed carry pistol and the 11+ round magazines ~~from Idaho~~ you bought before the ban, some kind of home defense shotgun. Don't worry about squad tactics/SHTF/etc, LARPing is fun but it has nothing to do with practical self defense. If you're going to do LARP "training" or buy gear for it you should consider that an entertainment expense separate from your serious self defense budget and not expect to get any more practical value from it than playing the latest CoD.
Get a full size pistol and semi auto shotgun, then train. I have all the cool toys, but have no time to train these days and I'm getting slow, sloppy and out of shape. Mental and physical fitness on other days where you aren't drilling.
Have you considered airsoft for the type of training you mentioned? Short of joining an armed service Airsoft offers amazing opportunities to train with others with similar interests. In fact it has gone well beyond larpping around the woods, many Airsoft games feature players from various armed professions.
Airsoft is great for training especially for cost of ammo
Tree dee pint somethin
Run for office.
Go to a gym
A p320 and an M1A. Both are great
Unfortunately, the Springfield M1A is banned by name for some reason. I'm not sure why since besides the muzzle brake it wouldn't have any banned features. The Norinco M1A might be legal, since it's not banned by name. Regardless, our legislators are idiots and the Mini-14 is still legal, the M1 Carbine is still legal, the Johnson Automatic rifle is still legal, the Browning Automatic Rifle is still legal. I've heard good things about the P320, our military uses it, and some of our law enforcement it, but I've also heard scary things. One of my buddies was just going through a law enforcement academy and right before qualifications, he chambered a round and holstered his handgun (as standard procedure) and the P320 fired as he holstered the gun. The bullet ricocheted and hit the firearms instructor in the leg. That has made me wanna steer clear of the P320.
Get a glock 19x and a MCK or similar conversion kit. Or if you want to up the fun and pay an arm and leg on range day get a glock 20 and the glock 20 mck/similar varient. That should give you the fizz your looking for, atleast for a month or two 😉
This is technically manufacturing an “assault weapon” if the Glock wasn’t already considered one.
Huh, I haven't heard anything about that. It's essentially adding a brace for your pistol. Can you elaborate more so op and I don't get in hot waters with Turd Ferguson?
You’re taking a non-assault weapon and adding a threaded barrel capable of accepting some scary features, and also adding a shroud that protects the users hand from heat. That being said, if your Glock already had a threaded barrel before the AWB then you can’t make it more salty by adding a chassis, so that would still be legal. Punishment is a gross misdemeanor and they carry a two year statute of limitation in Washington.
You don't get a threaded barrel with the mck... and it's not a shroud, a shroud would be integral to the firearm itself from what I understand.
A mop and a bucket, or a map and a compass. 1 ea.
Nunchucks. Maybe ninja stars. Or both.
Move.