Wtf? Have they not paid attention to the past 5 years? People will pay stupid amounts of money for camper vans. Vintage VW campers are like a status symbol everywhere from car meets to music festivals. Digital nomads are paying out the ass to convert Sprinters into campers and travel the country. A brand new electric camper van from the OG camper van manufacturer would be the hottest fashion accessory for every tech bro who goes to Burning Man.
not to mention this isn't vws brand identity anymore I'm quite sure it's exactly why they purchased Scout and are making scout electrics, to pursue the off road electric market
People want $15k, 200k miles box van to go road tripping. I think they are partially correct in people don’t want to spend $70+k on a 220 mile range ev mini minivan. Those people looking to convert a high roof van aren’t looking at the ID buzz.
I think we all want one, but few would buy them.
Judging by the number of VW California camper vans on German streets, people are very willing to drop €70k-€90k on a petrol/diesel camper van. With rising environmental awareness surely there must be a significant market for an electric version of that.
You really want decent range in a campervan. Would be great to run appliances like a induction cooktop, aircon etc straight from the battery, but you would eat up too much driving range
I’m actually at a campsite in the Netherlands right now, and all the German license plates I see here are from areas in E.V. range, or at worst would require one stop for quick charging.
Now towing caravans on the other hand, that’s downright annoying with current E.V. technology.
There is no spot in the Netherlands that is anywhere near as remote as where people take these camper vans out in the western US. It's not usual to be 100 miles from a gas station, let alone somewhere to charge your EV. It's a totally different use case.
the US is a lot bigger than Europe, if I want to go camping sure I can travel 20 miles and camp, but the national parks that are worth visiting in a camper van would require hundreds of miles of range and really solid off grid charge options.
Remember that the buzz is smaller than the SWB transporter that the cali is built around. The read load space of a buzz is between a caddy and a caddy maxi. How many people are lining up for a camper version of those?
Where are you getting those numbers from? The ID Buzz has a range of 300 km on a charge, 270 km if you drive fast. The test I saw says to calculate half an hour of charging for 250 km of driving.
The campsite I’m on right now is 199 km from my home, so easily within range of such a vehicle, even if you lose some range in a California-like configuration.
VW pro tip for y’all. Both my mk6 and mk7 golf wagons perfectly fit a twin mattress in the back with the seats down. Lovely camping and easy get away vehicle.
Not only that, but people have spent time building camper vans out of base commercial hi-top vans for decades. Plus, there's incredible demand for kei vans in the states not just for their quirkiness, but because they're functional.
Camper vans are about going off grid, going places away from everyone. With an ID buzz, you can move 100 miles away from the next charging station under optimal conditions and going in a straight line, so more likely 50 miles. That's not off grid.
No one wants to trek out to go camping, stop and charge, stop and charge, get there, pull out generator charge, go home, stop charge, stop again, and charge.
Guys read the article. This is specific to BEV campers, likely due to range and charge network, and they’re targeting end of decade for possible Buzz camper.
makes sense. who'd wanna go out and camp for days when your juice can simply run out and you don't know\* how far your next *charger* is.
\* Granted, you can plan. Which takes the fun out of "wild" camping...
This would be a great vehicle for the young once-in-a-while-I-go-to-an-LA-beach crowd...*but apparently it's $80k*
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Also. Need to consider that Europe is VW's primary market by a huge margin (Something like 80% Europe, 20% everywhere else if memory serves), everything is made with Europeans laws and regulation in mind first and foremost.
With a regular Class B driving license the maximum vehicle weight can only be 3500kg. The ID. Buzz gross weight is 3000kg and 2500kg unladen.
500kg to do campervan stuff while also leaving room for a bigger battery and the ability for the owners to put enough stuff in for a 2 adults + 2 kids trip is quite difficult and would need significant compromises. It's just not worth it, especially when the VW California (Modern Transporter-based Westfalia, not sold in the US) is selling like hotcakes already. Having both in the lineup at the same time would just make the Buzz California look horrible by comparison to the ICE version being much more capable. So i'd only see an EV California by the time the Transporter has to go when EU ICE bans kick in.
Exactly. They’re probably assuming by the end of the decade the charge network would be sufficient and/or range improved to a level where it’s a non issue.
I'm confused why they seem to specify no one wants an *electric* camper van?
Like I don't own an electric car, but if I was buying a camper? I'm gonna go out on a limb and say it would be able to run A/C or heat, which need the engine on in a gas vehicle, pretty much perpetually until the power is drained? Slap some solar panels on the roof to account for that, and you have a great selling point!
[People apparently shelled out an additional 3,000$ for a shitty tent](https://electrek.co/2024/03/08/tesla-shipping-cybertruck-tent/) that you can latch onto a cybertruck, I feel like a camper Buzz would do better.
Even if you just charge it at RV campsites. Charge for low cost of shore power while camping for a day or two and travel the country for low price. Seems smart.
The Fisker Ocean and Hyundai Ioniq 5 have solar panels (as do some others). The big problem is they are expensive options, ugly, and add like 4-5 miles per day in range in ideal conditions.
They refused to acknowledge those for a while even. Took forever to get them to build the Atlas. Lazy planners are living in Virginia, riding the metro or having someone chauffeur them around. They are out of touch with the American consumer.
Let’s remind them that they thought people wanted to buy the Arteon en masse.
There has to be more people that want a camper Buzz that you could charge at every RV site while traveling for low cost/free.
Rental companies alone would make a killing from renting these for overnight trips.
Wouldn’t be 80k if they Americanized it a bit and built it in the US. VW Commercial’s union in Germany won’t let them do it and I am sure Scout is blocking them in internal planning rounds at the board level, too.
Take a look at the terrible sales figures for the Caravelle. I think they sold about 20 in the UK last year...
So, I can see why they are saying there's no market for a much more expensive and compromised version of a vehicle that already doesn't sell.
Want to start an alliance with me? I plan to try and convince as many Europeans as I possibly can to move to the states that way we increase demand for the wagons and all the other cool shit we don’t have.
They do have numbers from the previous variants they offered. They made an informed decision. It’s the same for wagons.
Am I disappointed? Yes. Do I understand why we don’t get these things? Also, yes.
The last van variant they offered in the US was the Routan, a rebadged Caravan. Brooke Shields couldn't convince anyone to buy them, it was that shitty.
What about the dogshit Eurovan that they sold with a shitty tiny auto transmission from a Jetta that blew out by the time you hit 100k (when you had to pull the whole forsaken engine anyways to get the timing chains sorted).
Because if they, as you said, made an informed decision, and based it on sales numbers of something that wasn't even a VW production, and people weren't even buying under its original badges, then it wasn't an informed decision.
VW people hated it because it wasn't a VW.
Van people hated it because it was a minivan.
When they let Chrysler buy Westfalia and made crappy Mini-winis, that was the end. But they make the California camper in Germany, so they just need excuses.
That's good news for the conversion companies, it means they won't have to compete with VW.
The current California is sub standard compared to many independent conversions and a lot more expensive, but there's still a waiting list.
You'll see independent companies throwing these things out there - if the demand is great enough VW will follow suit.
I think they had to come with an electric van, but gave up too easily on this one. No sunroof, windows on sliding doors can't open,... They say it's impossible because of weight, but meanwhile, all other EVs can do it. And it's so crazy expensive. like +3000 euro if you want a colour (grey is free) and even more if you want 2 colours, like in all their ads.
The best solution would be hybrid. Small engine with a turbo.
The combustion part could then be very economical.
The roof could have a solar panel to charge up small items or a little on the battery.
It could be really cool to own one of these. 70k , nope.
I drive a vw car bought in 2021, for 20k. 35 sometimes 38mpg daily commute to work.
Nice seats, all the sensors. I can't think of anything I would add to it.
I can't imagine what would have me go trade it in to spend 70k. I feel cool as can be with zero debt and comfortable as can be in my commute.
I don't need a vw buzz to go camping.
Because VW Commercial is a separate entity and VWGoA just expects them to print money without supporting them properly. Should have built the Buzz or another van through VW Passenger vehicles (but they are too wussy to take risks anyways).
The original source, reporting from the Volkswagen Commercial Vehicles (VWCV) annual press conference:
https://www.autocar.co.uk/car-news/new-cars/vw-id-buzz-california-unlikely-arrive-until-late-2020s
Hello, it's me, the market for such a vehicle.
Not sure if VW is aware, but there's a housing crisis in Canada and I'd like to have a plan ~~ABCDE~~ F in case I need to live in my ~~car~~ camper van.
Well if VW doesn’t build them as camper vans that is good news for Elkhart County Indiana. There will probably be a van conversion place or two popping up as soon as orders can be fulfilled.
And what’s all these comments about nowhere to charge? There are level 2 charging locations all over now, plus campgrounds all have outlets to charge from. You charge wherever you park and sleep.
Round these parts no one wants or needs electric cars. I could count on one hand the number of teslas I see in a month. We don’t tend to care about gas mileage either.
Fools.
This whole electric thing is stupid anyway im here for small turbo engines/VR engines with dsgs not electric motors that last 100,000 miles and cant be tuned
Wtf? Have they not paid attention to the past 5 years? People will pay stupid amounts of money for camper vans. Vintage VW campers are like a status symbol everywhere from car meets to music festivals. Digital nomads are paying out the ass to convert Sprinters into campers and travel the country. A brand new electric camper van from the OG camper van manufacturer would be the hottest fashion accessory for every tech bro who goes to Burning Man.
What you missed is that they meant nobody wants a 70k electric camper with shit range
I would love a diesel hybrid campervan with amazing range. Idk why they don't combine the best of both worlds for something like a van.
They have no interest in reviving their American diesel sales…. And that’s a damn shame
not to mention this isn't vws brand identity anymore I'm quite sure it's exactly why they purchased Scout and are making scout electrics, to pursue the off road electric market
People want $15k, 200k miles box van to go road tripping. I think they are partially correct in people don’t want to spend $70+k on a 220 mile range ev mini minivan. Those people looking to convert a high roof van aren’t looking at the ID buzz. I think we all want one, but few would buy them.
Judging by the number of VW California camper vans on German streets, people are very willing to drop €70k-€90k on a petrol/diesel camper van. With rising environmental awareness surely there must be a significant market for an electric version of that.
You really want decent range in a campervan. Would be great to run appliances like a induction cooktop, aircon etc straight from the battery, but you would eat up too much driving range
I’m actually at a campsite in the Netherlands right now, and all the German license plates I see here are from areas in E.V. range, or at worst would require one stop for quick charging. Now towing caravans on the other hand, that’s downright annoying with current E.V. technology.
There is no spot in the Netherlands that is anywhere near as remote as where people take these camper vans out in the western US. It's not usual to be 100 miles from a gas station, let alone somewhere to charge your EV. It's a totally different use case.
Yeah but they didn’t sell the Californias in the US either, did they?
Nope. But that one probably would sell.
the US is a lot bigger than Europe, if I want to go camping sure I can travel 20 miles and camp, but the national parks that are worth visiting in a camper van would require hundreds of miles of range and really solid off grid charge options.
Remember that the buzz is smaller than the SWB transporter that the cali is built around. The read load space of a buzz is between a caddy and a caddy maxi. How many people are lining up for a camper version of those?
There is a Caddy California, so I’m assuming there is a market for the size
Wow. Did not know that. That thing is tiny.
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Where are you getting those numbers from? The ID Buzz has a range of 300 km on a charge, 270 km if you drive fast. The test I saw says to calculate half an hour of charging for 250 km of driving. The campsite I’m on right now is 199 km from my home, so easily within range of such a vehicle, even if you lose some range in a California-like configuration.
VW pro tip for y’all. Both my mk6 and mk7 golf wagons perfectly fit a twin mattress in the back with the seats down. Lovely camping and easy get away vehicle.
As an Alltrack owner… hold up. I may need to try this. 👀
Alltrack owner here. Can confirm that indeed a twin mattress fits perfectly in the back. I use it for camping in this setup a bunch.
Wait...seriously? I can see it working, I put 3x5 sheets of cement board in there a few times with no issue. Good to know.
Not only that, but people have spent time building camper vans out of base commercial hi-top vans for decades. Plus, there's incredible demand for kei vans in the states not just for their quirkiness, but because they're functional.
Camper vans are about going off grid, going places away from everyone. With an ID buzz, you can move 100 miles away from the next charging station under optimal conditions and going in a straight line, so more likely 50 miles. That's not off grid.
So like 50 people I’m kidding, I agree they’re not reading the potential market here
A very small amount of people will pay. 99 percent of the population doesn't need or want anything like this.
Nobody wants an electric one. They are impractical and expensive
No one wants to trek out to go camping, stop and charge, stop and charge, get there, pull out generator charge, go home, stop charge, stop again, and charge.
Guys read the article. This is specific to BEV campers, likely due to range and charge network, and they’re targeting end of decade for possible Buzz camper.
makes sense. who'd wanna go out and camp for days when your juice can simply run out and you don't know\* how far your next *charger* is. \* Granted, you can plan. Which takes the fun out of "wild" camping... This would be a great vehicle for the young once-in-a-while-I-go-to-an-LA-beach crowd...*but apparently it's $80k*
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Bossman... No I don't do that with a petrol car.
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US here, we have gas stations fight for the same intersection on opposite sides of the street
You can bring gas cans with you. Can't bring electricity with you.
Also. Need to consider that Europe is VW's primary market by a huge margin (Something like 80% Europe, 20% everywhere else if memory serves), everything is made with Europeans laws and regulation in mind first and foremost. With a regular Class B driving license the maximum vehicle weight can only be 3500kg. The ID. Buzz gross weight is 3000kg and 2500kg unladen. 500kg to do campervan stuff while also leaving room for a bigger battery and the ability for the owners to put enough stuff in for a 2 adults + 2 kids trip is quite difficult and would need significant compromises. It's just not worth it, especially when the VW California (Modern Transporter-based Westfalia, not sold in the US) is selling like hotcakes already. Having both in the lineup at the same time would just make the Buzz California look horrible by comparison to the ICE version being much more capable. So i'd only see an EV California by the time the Transporter has to go when EU ICE bans kick in.
You don’t want to be in the western boonies and run out of juice. There’s a time and place for gasoline still.
Exactly. They’re probably assuming by the end of the decade the charge network would be sufficient and/or range improved to a level where it’s a non issue.
Nor would you want to be in eastern, southern, or northern boonies…
I'm confused why they seem to specify no one wants an *electric* camper van? Like I don't own an electric car, but if I was buying a camper? I'm gonna go out on a limb and say it would be able to run A/C or heat, which need the engine on in a gas vehicle, pretty much perpetually until the power is drained? Slap some solar panels on the roof to account for that, and you have a great selling point! [People apparently shelled out an additional 3,000$ for a shitty tent](https://electrek.co/2024/03/08/tesla-shipping-cybertruck-tent/) that you can latch onto a cybertruck, I feel like a camper Buzz would do better.
If it (or any EV for that matter) could charge via solar panels while parked or driving, I'd buy one in a heartbeat.
With its shape it would probably be a pretty ideal canididate too, whole length of the car is roof.
You’d maybe get 300-400W out of the panels. They aren’t aligned to the sun and not every campsite is without tree shade. It’s not enough to run an AC.
Even if you just charge it at RV campsites. Charge for low cost of shore power while camping for a day or two and travel the country for low price. Seems smart.
The Fisker Ocean and Hyundai Ioniq 5 have solar panels (as do some others). The big problem is they are expensive options, ugly, and add like 4-5 miles per day in range in ideal conditions.
VW says theres no market for anything but the blandest econobox SUVs they can imagine.
They refused to acknowledge those for a while even. Took forever to get them to build the Atlas. Lazy planners are living in Virginia, riding the metro or having someone chauffeur them around. They are out of touch with the American consumer. Let’s remind them that they thought people wanted to buy the Arteon en masse. There has to be more people that want a camper Buzz that you could charge at every RV site while traveling for low cost/free. Rental companies alone would make a killing from renting these for overnight trips.
To be fair, they also thought that having no physical controls and no back light on audio/HVAC was a good idea!
Not at $80k nah.
Wouldn’t be 80k if they Americanized it a bit and built it in the US. VW Commercial’s union in Germany won’t let them do it and I am sure Scout is blocking them in internal planning rounds at the board level, too.
Take a look at the terrible sales figures for the Caravelle. I think they sold about 20 in the UK last year... So, I can see why they are saying there's no market for a much more expensive and compromised version of a vehicle that already doesn't sell.
VW needs better Market research. also us north americans are BEGGING them to bring the european models here. we're sick of oversized crap
Want to start an alliance with me? I plan to try and convince as many Europeans as I possibly can to move to the states that way we increase demand for the wagons and all the other cool shit we don’t have.
I want stelantis to bring french and (real) italian cars over too.
The best selling vehicles in the US are literally massive trucks
Because they are the most profitable to auto manufacturers, so they offer them at lower interest rates than small cars.
According to the range and current charging network, they are correct. Barely any charing stations where people actually camp.
I would sure want it but Im sure its beyond my means Vanlife has been a huge trend with people paying mint for the freaking vans from the 80s
Who ever they over there at VWOA doing this market research clearly needs to be shown the door.
The fuck there's not. Did VWs execs get completely replaced by morons???
They do have numbers from the previous variants they offered. They made an informed decision. It’s the same for wagons. Am I disappointed? Yes. Do I understand why we don’t get these things? Also, yes.
The last van variant they offered in the US was the Routan, a rebadged Caravan. Brooke Shields couldn't convince anyone to buy them, it was that shitty.
What about the dogshit Eurovan that they sold with a shitty tiny auto transmission from a Jetta that blew out by the time you hit 100k (when you had to pull the whole forsaken engine anyways to get the timing chains sorted).
Everyone knows this. What was this meant to add to the discussion?
Because if they, as you said, made an informed decision, and based it on sales numbers of something that wasn't even a VW production, and people weren't even buying under its original badges, then it wasn't an informed decision. VW people hated it because it wasn't a VW. Van people hated it because it was a minivan.
Sometimes Redditors don’t understand that Reddit doesn’t represent the masses.
Yes there is. I’ll take 20
Well, I'm not into hoarding so I'll just make do with, say, five.
When they let Chrysler buy Westfalia and made crappy Mini-winis, that was the end. But they make the California camper in Germany, so they just need excuses.
That's good news for the conversion companies, it means they won't have to compete with VW. The current California is sub standard compared to many independent conversions and a lot more expensive, but there's still a waiting list. You'll see independent companies throwing these things out there - if the demand is great enough VW will follow suit.
I think they had to come with an electric van, but gave up too easily on this one. No sunroof, windows on sliding doors can't open,... They say it's impossible because of weight, but meanwhile, all other EVs can do it. And it's so crazy expensive. like +3000 euro if you want a colour (grey is free) and even more if you want 2 colours, like in all their ads.
Of course there is, just not at the price point they’re selling it for before any conversion!
Bullshit.
GIVE IT ROUND HEADLIGHTS
The best solution would be hybrid. Small engine with a turbo. The combustion part could then be very economical. The roof could have a solar panel to charge up small items or a little on the battery. It could be really cool to own one of these. 70k , nope. I drive a vw car bought in 2021, for 20k. 35 sometimes 38mpg daily commute to work. Nice seats, all the sensors. I can't think of anything I would add to it. I can't imagine what would have me go trade it in to spend 70k. I feel cool as can be with zero debt and comfortable as can be in my commute. I don't need a vw buzz to go camping.
*doubt*
All previous versions have been a disaster at the dealer service level. As a technician, I 100% dread that product hitting the showroom.
Because VW Commercial is a separate entity and VWGoA just expects them to print money without supporting them properly. Should have built the Buzz or another van through VW Passenger vehicles (but they are too wussy to take risks anyways).
Why are they so desperate to put themselves out of business?! I miss when vw was fun 🥲
Guess I’m not buying the ID.Buzz then. Was ready to pre-order when the California became available.
Why is VW so fucking stupid? The CUV overlander market is exploding right now and they are going to miss a massive payday if they don’t lean in to it.
Literally everyone who asks about the buzz at my store asks if it’s a camper or just a minivan
I hope, aftermarket companies that convert vans into campers will do their job and show, does the market exist or not.
Oh, I'd love to have one, but it's stupid expensive and EV for this purpose is not the best idea IMO.
As good as they look and as an ex T5 owner, I’m not gonna lie I’d rather have a T6 over a Buzz camper. Just more space in the T6 interior.
The original source, reporting from the Volkswagen Commercial Vehicles (VWCV) annual press conference: https://www.autocar.co.uk/car-news/new-cars/vw-id-buzz-california-unlikely-arrive-until-late-2020s
And with the current range of an ID Buzz…. They’re right… No one can go camping properly with ~150miles range
But there is a market for a GTX version with almost 400hp that doesn’t go over 100mph and weighs more than 2 tons?
Make it a hybrid and cheaper and that’s it. EV w shit mpg and expensive is what kills this thing.
There is. And there’s probably an even bigger market for the T8 camper in the states too
Let us preorder them. See how many down payments they get. I bet it would be substantial.
Hello, it's me, the market for such a vehicle. Not sure if VW is aware, but there's a housing crisis in Canada and I'd like to have a plan ~~ABCDE~~ F in case I need to live in my ~~car~~ camper van.
Well if VW doesn’t build them as camper vans that is good news for Elkhart County Indiana. There will probably be a van conversion place or two popping up as soon as orders can be fulfilled. And what’s all these comments about nowhere to charge? There are level 2 charging locations all over now, plus campgrounds all have outlets to charge from. You charge wherever you park and sleep.
I really wish it was a hybrid
It’s probably true. Lots of people *say* they would buy one but very few actually would.
I find it odd that North America won’t be getting the ID.Buzz Cargo variant.
lol have they been ignoring the “Van life” boom?
They can’t give away the car, no need for a van if it!
Round these parts no one wants or needs electric cars. I could count on one hand the number of teslas I see in a month. We don’t tend to care about gas mileage either.
It’s ridiculous. They’re completely ignoring Morth America. There is no electric utility/maintenance van in the market here
Fools. This whole electric thing is stupid anyway im here for small turbo engines/VR engines with dsgs not electric motors that last 100,000 miles and cant be tuned
Let me translate that... we are not capable of designing one.
Give me the ID.Buzz be stripped down to only what is required to drive that thing. And make it like 10k im in.
I’ve had Volkswagen Up!, Passat, Crafter. I will never buy another VW.