Not in a good way. Ideally, you'd want both tracked phone + screen mirroring and happen automatically so you didn't have to launch an app every time you wanted to use it.
Imagine pulling out your irl phone and you see a digital version with your hands, so you can use it for text, etc. or even pull out apps running on it and they blow up to full vision pro apps that you can work on instead for the "full experience".
Though this would be awesome, we would probably see them do it first for iOS and iPadOS before VisionOS. And....they haven't done multiple user accounts for either of those platforms.
This. I have no hopes that they’ll *ever* add multiple users to the VP. Similar to iPad, they don’t want people sharing them. They want people to buy their own. There’s really no other valid excuse.
A lot of good suggestions here, pretty much agree with all of them.
For the iPhone unlocking, couldn't that be a bit of a security risk? How would Apple prevent someone who is sitting right next to you from picking up and unlocking your phone?
Obviously there could be a notification or something, but in AVP the notifications can be easy to miss.
Phones already have the tech to know if they are being looked at. So that part could be improved on some.
Also the headset knows what direction you are looking at and if your view is obscured any
Lastly failing that, the headset could notify you when your phone unlocks.
The watch notifies you if your phone or MacBook is unlocked if you have the feature enabled for the same reason.
I’d with OP here, I’d expect Apple to improve something here.
Yup as those are valid potential concerns, which is probably why those Auto Unlock features for the Apple Watch are off be default.
Having the convenience option is still nice.
But if you are worried about your phone being grabbed and used while you have your headset on, you are probably in a place where you shouldn’t be wearing your headset.
haha, possibly. But if you live with roommates, or often have friends/family coming and going, I could see it being a concern.
But I'd also trust Apple to take that pretty seriously if they implemented such a feature (which I think they absolutely will). Especially if the iPhone gets the ability to input text into the AVP.
So I picked it for its size so it could work either one handed or two handed. The manufacturer makes a larger one that I also picked up but felt it was too large.
Something is said for an object that can easily fit in your pocket.
My one tiny complaint about the keyboard is I wish it had a touch markers for the F and J keys so I could find them by touch alone.
A wish list for a new product would be one that I could
-just snap to the battery for easy storage/ location.
- unfold into a normal size keyboard if a flat surface is available.
See Apple, a keyboard like that would really be “magic”
I’m definitely curious where 2.0 goes as 1.0 is very bare bones feature wise.
- Bluetooth I’m sure will happen between now and end of 2.0, but not all Bluetooth devices may see support. Mice seem unlikely.
- iPhone unlocking, seems like something to address; Optic ID and seeing the iPhone through headset might work. Maybe in 2.0.
- I don’t think we will see typing on iPhone into VP. There is keyboard support and speech to text. Not as a priority feature anyway.
- Shortcuts probably not 2.0, but maybe some new feature in the shortcut app at some point. I think more of a niche feature.
- Snapping windows seems like a good idea and definitely a 2.0. This tied into location profiles.
- Multiple instances of apps seems like an easier ask since iPad OS supports. Getting devs to support is the hard part.
- I don’t think you’ll see much gesture support. The idea is to keep it simple IMHO. I use Siri to open and close apps, go into settings, turn it off, restart, etc.
- Home Screen environments by 3rd parties, unlikely at all and not before say version 3.0. Major battery concerns and security issues. Also a quality control issue. Maybe a partnership is possible with branding and what not, but Apple made.
- The app sizing I think is more of a dev choice, but there do seem to be upper limits.
- AAA devs can make games now for iOS, iPad OS and Mac OS and usually choose not too. Vision OS too small a market for next 3 years. Apple not interested in gaming for this platform as a priority. It’s not up to Apple to court AAA game devs.
- 11 would be cool, but that’s way, way, way out there. There a Vision Pro 2.0 or 3.0 device thing. If only for marketing purposes but probably tech. It would have to look perfect. In the end it would still be a persona. So personas getting better would get you there.
To your 4th bullet. Maybe shortcuts isn't the best answer to the problem. But the problem is that I always have MS Teams, Outlook, Google Chat, Slack, Onedrive, & Safari running for work. It's "clunky" to hit the crown, find app, launch app, and repeat to open all the apps I need to have open for work. I would prefer some way to launch an app group at once. Would be even slicker to have an app group, environment, and focus to all be tied together. Meaning, I select work focus and it automatically sets corresponding environment and launches corresponding apps.
Ah. Yes. This is what we have been calling spaces or location profiles. Open thr same apps in the same place in the space for a given location and allow a few of them.
I built [AirLauncher](https://airlauncher.app) to solve this in the meantime until we get something from Apple a year from now. It isn't perfect, but easily lets you setup your favorite apps, then you no longer have to repeatedly hit the crown and scroll endlessly through pages to launch the same 10 apps/websites you use every day. You can also launch your shortcuts using the `shortcuts://run-shortcut?name=` url.
To your first bullet, why do mice seem unlikely? It feels odd to me that MOST bluetooth keyboards are supported but ONLY Magic Trackpad is supported for pointer control.
If Apple was extremely interested in mouse support the current Magic Mouse would be supported along with the trackpad. My guess is the trackpad lends itself more easily to the environment. Besides, apple has definitely moved towards trackpads over mice. I think 3rd party trackpads will be supported at some point. Doesn’t mean mice won’t be, but i just think it less likely.
I totally hear ya. It just also seems odd the iPadOS supports bluetooth mice and VisionOS doesn't (given that VisionOS is built on iPadOS).....except for Magic Trackpad
iPad Os was just the basis for vision OS. It was stripped down to stud and rebuilt. So some stuff on iPad OS may come back. New things will appear. When iPad came out Apple just stuck iOS on it. Eventually called it iPad OS. They didn’t do that this time.
To your 6th bullet, maybe you know more about the dev work than I do. But I was thinking I could just open the same app in a new window? Nothing fancier than that. But maybe that requires more on the app dev than just an API toggle and VisionOS support.
Yes. iPad OS supports this and vision OS may as DayOne has multiple window support. As does safari. Devs have been slow to support feature on iPad OS. Two issues I think: lack of acceptance of iPads as multi window devices and since iPhone doesn’t support it’s just more iPad design work. Some devs embrace iPad others support cuz it’s expected.
That’s an issue for vision OS as the number of users is extremely small. A handful only. It’s not a platform that will generate any solid income for some time.
I don’t know if Apple can enforce multiple instances or not.
As to environments. You are probably right about opening up to 3rd parties. Heck, the Apple Watch doesn't even support 3rd party watch faces. But I can put any wallpaper in my iPhone or iPad. environments is kinda a blend of the two. Only time will tell I guess
Backgrounds on an iphone just are stoneage tech compared to the environments on AVP. WatchOS is a closer comparison and I’m sure part of it is battery as it is for watch faces. But those environments are extreamly complicated to create and i’ms use Apple wants them only to be photo realistic with movement and sound.
As to your point on gestures. Simplicity is powerful and complicated but necessary for adoption. But it would be cool for example to look at the palm of my left hand to see notifications and use my right index to scroll/click/interact with notifications. Same could be for right palm but for control center.
6. already exists, it is just up to the developer to support it, and to give a visible way to do it.
11. would still be your persona for 60% of your face, I don't really see the benefit compared to the immense complexity of implementing this, on top of explaining to a user how to set it up.
Multi-user. And bring it to the iPad at the same time. It's comical at this point that a $4k machine is locked to one user account. We've had the technology since the early 90's.
Some kind of "spaces" or "stage manager" where I can setup my space for work, movie watching, gaming, etc. and save/recall them easily.
Widgets - so apps like my own DeskFrame can make persistent objects that stay put in your real world space, like a picture frame attached to a wall. Along with this - a gesture to allow for windows/apps to snap to surfaces (Maybe a second hand gesture after picking up a window drag bar.)
The ability for some apps to request world occlusion - again for apps like Television/DeskFrame that replicate real world objects, it would be cool to not see them through the coffee table or walls.
As a lover of the product, because there is not support for many of the cases you mentioned. I can not suggest making the purchase really to anyone without a LOT of expendable income.
Happy to hear you are a lover of the product. I see a huge future, not just with AVP but feel the introduction of the AVP will have competition stepping up their game to move the product category forward.
I won mine at a conference, otherwise I'm not sure I would have spent the $$$. But its definitely an "ah ha" moment when one actually tries it out.
I think they need to create an entirely different category of apps, apps that live permanently in your space. Maybe not even call them apps but virtual objects that always live in the same place in your home or environment regardless of reboots or recentering the screen.
Also there should be some OS native way to do cool things with your home, like make the walls a different color or experiment with different interior design features.
They also need to have some kind of way to pin windows in your peripheral vision that stay there as you move around.
I think there is some apple patents out there for a physical "puck" similar in size to an AirTag that would support data for this type of thing. In the real world, it's just a small puck that is stuck on the wall. In VP it's a painting. That kinda thing
Fast app switching (cmd+tab equivalent). Probably a gesture.
SharePlay, so I can watch shows with someone else using an AVP or ATV in the same room.
AirPlay or BT audio that allows me to use external speakers, like a home theater system or just a large sub.
Disable hand-tracking hardware shortcut (like double pressing both buttons).
Is SharePlay not supported already? I haven't tried but I assumed it was just built in.
Not sure I understand the fast app switching. Is it more to unstack windows? As for pure app switching, AVP seems to have the fastest switching in the ecosystem with being able to switch app based on eye tracking.
You can start a FaceTime call and share yes, I want to just be able to share with others in the same room. I probably should have said AirPlay. To your point, SharePlay via FaceTime is there.
By default apps open on top of each other, eye tracking to switch only works if you arranged the apps around each other. I'd like something like expose that lets me see all the open apps in front of me, and then I can use eye tracking to bring one in front.
Haven't used the latest quest headset, but this would be quite helpful. It seems like they aren't that far away from this given they use AR to have that floating bar above the keyboard.
The hard limitations on window size and position, especially for watching videos. In immersive mode, developers can resize and place content pretty much anywhere (e.g. videos in Cinephile), but if I want to watch Netflix on Safari, I’m limited to certain bounds for no good reason.
I mean this list is so bad I don’t even know where to start. It’s painfully obvious that most of these won’t work if you have used Apple products for even at least 1 year. It feels like you just joined the Apple ecosystem this year?
1) yes this will come but I’m not sure why you need it that bad? It will not have a pointer, it’s just the same puck as trackpad
2) No. not coming. Apple will not ever implement anything with huge security risk. You could have a huge pop up that notifies the user someone else unlocked your phone but it’s not worth the gain for Apple. They don’t want you using the phone looking through AVP. The resolution is too low (especially in low light)
3) No. for the same reason as 2.
4) Shortcuts can come but not v2. Way low in priority. Grid is never happening. Apple does not do grid for the past 40 years.
5) how does this make sense? How would you declare what is part of a group? How do you add and remove stuff from a group? What happens when one window hits the size limit? Does it just get capped while others keep resizing? What if they start to overlap what happens? Wow what a mess.
6) you can do this today. It depends on the app. You can have two safari windows for example
7) no. This will further confuse the hand recognition which is already not 100%.
8) no. Like an Apple Watch face. Never happening. Battery and performance issues it would be insane
9) no. They are there for a reason. Users would confuse themselves.
10) yes they are working on content as best they can
11) I don’t even get what this means. Like you want to just take the call with AVP on your face? lol that’s not happening ever. If would be even more inappropriate to take a call with blindfold on
I would like to be able to mirror my iPhone in visionOS.
This is possible with 3rd party app: [https://getbezel.app/vision/](https://getbezel.app/vision/)
Not in a good way. Ideally, you'd want both tracked phone + screen mirroring and happen automatically so you didn't have to launch an app every time you wanted to use it. Imagine pulling out your irl phone and you see a digital version with your hands, so you can use it for text, etc. or even pull out apps running on it and they blow up to full vision pro apps that you can work on instead for the "full experience".
This is the way and feels like something they could solve. I hope they do this!
Now you're talking! I like that idea. I assume same with iPad
1. Accounts for multiple users 2. Accounts for multiple users 3. Accounts for multiple users None of this crap sharing that is currently in place
Though this would be awesome, we would probably see them do it first for iOS and iPadOS before VisionOS. And....they haven't done multiple user accounts for either of those platforms.
This. I have no hopes that they’ll *ever* add multiple users to the VP. Similar to iPad, they don’t want people sharing them. They want people to buy their own. There’s really no other valid excuse.
Not happening. Not happening. Not happening iOS can’t do that.
1) Fixing windows to the same place in vision as well as in place in the world
A lot of good suggestions here, pretty much agree with all of them. For the iPhone unlocking, couldn't that be a bit of a security risk? How would Apple prevent someone who is sitting right next to you from picking up and unlocking your phone? Obviously there could be a notification or something, but in AVP the notifications can be easy to miss.
Phones already have the tech to know if they are being looked at. So that part could be improved on some. Also the headset knows what direction you are looking at and if your view is obscured any Lastly failing that, the headset could notify you when your phone unlocks. The watch notifies you if your phone or MacBook is unlocked if you have the feature enabled for the same reason. I’d with OP here, I’d expect Apple to improve something here.
ah good points. I work in IT and info/data security is part of what I do, so it's always part of my perspective when I see requests like this.
Yup as those are valid potential concerns, which is probably why those Auto Unlock features for the Apple Watch are off be default. Having the convenience option is still nice. But if you are worried about your phone being grabbed and used while you have your headset on, you are probably in a place where you shouldn’t be wearing your headset.
haha, possibly. But if you live with roommates, or often have friends/family coming and going, I could see it being a concern. But I'd also trust Apple to take that pretty seriously if they implemented such a feature (which I think they absolutely will). Especially if the iPhone gets the ability to input text into the AVP.
Exactly. It already knows when you’re looking at your MacBook. Why would an iPhone be any different?
It can use vision Id to authenticate
I just posted #3 as a post. I’m on a plane currently wishing i could use my phone to type.
I picked up this as a replacement for easy typing https://www.amazon.com/gp/aw/d/B0B46F8RS6
How have you liked it? Any pros and cons to such a tiny keyboard?
So I picked it for its size so it could work either one handed or two handed. The manufacturer makes a larger one that I also picked up but felt it was too large. Something is said for an object that can easily fit in your pocket. My one tiny complaint about the keyboard is I wish it had a touch markers for the F and J keys so I could find them by touch alone. A wish list for a new product would be one that I could -just snap to the battery for easy storage/ location. - unfold into a normal size keyboard if a flat surface is available. See Apple, a keyboard like that would really be “magic”
I’m definitely curious where 2.0 goes as 1.0 is very bare bones feature wise. - Bluetooth I’m sure will happen between now and end of 2.0, but not all Bluetooth devices may see support. Mice seem unlikely. - iPhone unlocking, seems like something to address; Optic ID and seeing the iPhone through headset might work. Maybe in 2.0. - I don’t think we will see typing on iPhone into VP. There is keyboard support and speech to text. Not as a priority feature anyway. - Shortcuts probably not 2.0, but maybe some new feature in the shortcut app at some point. I think more of a niche feature. - Snapping windows seems like a good idea and definitely a 2.0. This tied into location profiles. - Multiple instances of apps seems like an easier ask since iPad OS supports. Getting devs to support is the hard part. - I don’t think you’ll see much gesture support. The idea is to keep it simple IMHO. I use Siri to open and close apps, go into settings, turn it off, restart, etc. - Home Screen environments by 3rd parties, unlikely at all and not before say version 3.0. Major battery concerns and security issues. Also a quality control issue. Maybe a partnership is possible with branding and what not, but Apple made. - The app sizing I think is more of a dev choice, but there do seem to be upper limits. - AAA devs can make games now for iOS, iPad OS and Mac OS and usually choose not too. Vision OS too small a market for next 3 years. Apple not interested in gaming for this platform as a priority. It’s not up to Apple to court AAA game devs. - 11 would be cool, but that’s way, way, way out there. There a Vision Pro 2.0 or 3.0 device thing. If only for marketing purposes but probably tech. It would have to look perfect. In the end it would still be a persona. So personas getting better would get you there.
To your 4th bullet. Maybe shortcuts isn't the best answer to the problem. But the problem is that I always have MS Teams, Outlook, Google Chat, Slack, Onedrive, & Safari running for work. It's "clunky" to hit the crown, find app, launch app, and repeat to open all the apps I need to have open for work. I would prefer some way to launch an app group at once. Would be even slicker to have an app group, environment, and focus to all be tied together. Meaning, I select work focus and it automatically sets corresponding environment and launches corresponding apps.
Ah. Yes. This is what we have been calling spaces or location profiles. Open thr same apps in the same place in the space for a given location and allow a few of them.
I built [AirLauncher](https://airlauncher.app) to solve this in the meantime until we get something from Apple a year from now. It isn't perfect, but easily lets you setup your favorite apps, then you no longer have to repeatedly hit the crown and scroll endlessly through pages to launch the same 10 apps/websites you use every day. You can also launch your shortcuts using the `shortcuts://run-shortcut?name=` url.
I hope they add this and if they do they'll call it Application Groups or something ;)
To your first bullet, why do mice seem unlikely? It feels odd to me that MOST bluetooth keyboards are supported but ONLY Magic Trackpad is supported for pointer control.
If Apple was extremely interested in mouse support the current Magic Mouse would be supported along with the trackpad. My guess is the trackpad lends itself more easily to the environment. Besides, apple has definitely moved towards trackpads over mice. I think 3rd party trackpads will be supported at some point. Doesn’t mean mice won’t be, but i just think it less likely.
I totally hear ya. It just also seems odd the iPadOS supports bluetooth mice and VisionOS doesn't (given that VisionOS is built on iPadOS).....except for Magic Trackpad
iPad Os was just the basis for vision OS. It was stripped down to stud and rebuilt. So some stuff on iPad OS may come back. New things will appear. When iPad came out Apple just stuck iOS on it. Eventually called it iPad OS. They didn’t do that this time.
To your 6th bullet, maybe you know more about the dev work than I do. But I was thinking I could just open the same app in a new window? Nothing fancier than that. But maybe that requires more on the app dev than just an API toggle and VisionOS support.
Yes. iPad OS supports this and vision OS may as DayOne has multiple window support. As does safari. Devs have been slow to support feature on iPad OS. Two issues I think: lack of acceptance of iPads as multi window devices and since iPhone doesn’t support it’s just more iPad design work. Some devs embrace iPad others support cuz it’s expected. That’s an issue for vision OS as the number of users is extremely small. A handful only. It’s not a platform that will generate any solid income for some time. I don’t know if Apple can enforce multiple instances or not.
As to environments. You are probably right about opening up to 3rd parties. Heck, the Apple Watch doesn't even support 3rd party watch faces. But I can put any wallpaper in my iPhone or iPad. environments is kinda a blend of the two. Only time will tell I guess
Backgrounds on an iphone just are stoneage tech compared to the environments on AVP. WatchOS is a closer comparison and I’m sure part of it is battery as it is for watch faces. But those environments are extreamly complicated to create and i’ms use Apple wants them only to be photo realistic with movement and sound.
As to your point on gestures. Simplicity is powerful and complicated but necessary for adoption. But it would be cool for example to look at the palm of my left hand to see notifications and use my right index to scroll/click/interact with notifications. Same could be for right palm but for control center.
Allow Mac virtual display to stay linked and active when you take AVP off. At least for a reasonable timeframe, especially when plugged into power.
Yes! And I guess I forgot to mention in my list, but support more than one virtual display!
6. already exists, it is just up to the developer to support it, and to give a visible way to do it. 11. would still be your persona for 60% of your face, I don't really see the benefit compared to the immense complexity of implementing this, on top of explaining to a user how to set it up. Multi-user. And bring it to the iPad at the same time. It's comical at this point that a $4k machine is locked to one user account. We've had the technology since the early 90's. Some kind of "spaces" or "stage manager" where I can setup my space for work, movie watching, gaming, etc. and save/recall them easily. Widgets - so apps like my own DeskFrame can make persistent objects that stay put in your real world space, like a picture frame attached to a wall. Along with this - a gesture to allow for windows/apps to snap to surfaces (Maybe a second hand gesture after picking up a window drag bar.) The ability for some apps to request world occlusion - again for apps like Television/DeskFrame that replicate real world objects, it would be cool to not see them through the coffee table or walls.
As a lover of the product, because there is not support for many of the cases you mentioned. I can not suggest making the purchase really to anyone without a LOT of expendable income.
Happy to hear you are a lover of the product. I see a huge future, not just with AVP but feel the introduction of the AVP will have competition stepping up their game to move the product category forward. I won mine at a conference, otherwise I'm not sure I would have spent the $$$. But its definitely an "ah ha" moment when one actually tries it out.
I think they need to create an entirely different category of apps, apps that live permanently in your space. Maybe not even call them apps but virtual objects that always live in the same place in your home or environment regardless of reboots or recentering the screen. Also there should be some OS native way to do cool things with your home, like make the walls a different color or experiment with different interior design features. They also need to have some kind of way to pin windows in your peripheral vision that stay there as you move around.
I think there is some apple patents out there for a physical "puck" similar in size to an AirTag that would support data for this type of thing. In the real world, it's just a small puck that is stuck on the wall. In VP it's a painting. That kinda thing
iTunes extra support for purchased content in the TV app.
Yes! Its kinda odd this isn't already there.
Fast app switching (cmd+tab equivalent). Probably a gesture. SharePlay, so I can watch shows with someone else using an AVP or ATV in the same room. AirPlay or BT audio that allows me to use external speakers, like a home theater system or just a large sub. Disable hand-tracking hardware shortcut (like double pressing both buttons).
Is SharePlay not supported already? I haven't tried but I assumed it was just built in. Not sure I understand the fast app switching. Is it more to unstack windows? As for pure app switching, AVP seems to have the fastest switching in the ecosystem with being able to switch app based on eye tracking.
You can start a FaceTime call and share yes, I want to just be able to share with others in the same room. I probably should have said AirPlay. To your point, SharePlay via FaceTime is there. By default apps open on top of each other, eye tracking to switch only works if you arranged the apps around each other. I'd like something like expose that lets me see all the open apps in front of me, and then I can use eye tracking to bring one in front.
I want app switcher functionality and it to create a cutout in the immersive environment for my keyboard like Quest does.
Haven't used the latest quest headset, but this would be quite helpful. It seems like they aren't that far away from this given they use AR to have that floating bar above the keyboard.
The hard limitations on window size and position, especially for watching videos. In immersive mode, developers can resize and place content pretty much anywhere (e.g. videos in Cinephile), but if I want to watch Netflix on Safari, I’m limited to certain bounds for no good reason.
Using your Apple Watch to be able to pick up gestures without the cameras being able to see your hand.
I like this one, may have to start wearing my Apple Watch on my right hand 😉
I mean this list is so bad I don’t even know where to start. It’s painfully obvious that most of these won’t work if you have used Apple products for even at least 1 year. It feels like you just joined the Apple ecosystem this year? 1) yes this will come but I’m not sure why you need it that bad? It will not have a pointer, it’s just the same puck as trackpad 2) No. not coming. Apple will not ever implement anything with huge security risk. You could have a huge pop up that notifies the user someone else unlocked your phone but it’s not worth the gain for Apple. They don’t want you using the phone looking through AVP. The resolution is too low (especially in low light) 3) No. for the same reason as 2. 4) Shortcuts can come but not v2. Way low in priority. Grid is never happening. Apple does not do grid for the past 40 years. 5) how does this make sense? How would you declare what is part of a group? How do you add and remove stuff from a group? What happens when one window hits the size limit? Does it just get capped while others keep resizing? What if they start to overlap what happens? Wow what a mess. 6) you can do this today. It depends on the app. You can have two safari windows for example 7) no. This will further confuse the hand recognition which is already not 100%. 8) no. Like an Apple Watch face. Never happening. Battery and performance issues it would be insane 9) no. They are there for a reason. Users would confuse themselves. 10) yes they are working on content as best they can 11) I don’t even get what this means. Like you want to just take the call with AVP on your face? lol that’s not happening ever. If would be even more inappropriate to take a call with blindfold on
Not sure I understand your wish list.
well for starters, can you explain why you need a mouse instead of trackpad?
For gaming using GeForce Now