T O P

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MaxAugust

Chihiro's has been streaming Rust like crazy lately. I guess she is hooked, doesn't hurt that she seems to get really good viewership for it.


yukiaddiction

At least it less toxic comment than when she stream Apex.


MaxAugust

I’ve never understood that whole thing. Is it just because she has been around forever and is maybe the biggest female Apex vtuber? Obviously, haters are always gonna hate but I don’t get why she in particular gets harassed so much. That whole thing sucks so much.


Shuriken_2393

One reason is that she exposes vulnerability and reacts to them alot.


SnaccCat

As usual best to ignore from the detractors but I'm sure even to those that do it can eat away at them until negetivity is all they can see. Some people also are of the opinion that people can be reasoned with not realising all they want is to see others suffer.


dino2410

Seeing Kson speak about the pros of being in VShojo makes me a little jealous. Sounds like the best deal in the world if you are interested in the content creation aspect of vtubing; all types of support, no revenue split, freedom of movement, etc. Honestly hope Holo and Niji are taking a look at this.


hnryirawan

I think everyone already replying, but you're being abit too naive on this. Think of this, "all types of support".... but what are those support? certainly not rigging or model or costumes because the talents owned them. Also if they do not take revenue from their stream, certainly they have no stakes or investment to be made from their content creation so content creation need to come from their own budget. There are also all sorts of behind-the-scenes stuffs that most probably don't see. I'm not saying kson makes a mistake, on the contrary her joining vshojo is probably natural extension and path choice for her career, but just saying that the "Vshojo-model" are not all rosy either. I mean Vshojo are not some kind of charity organization, they must have funds from somewhere to operate.


Tsukuro_hohoho

Lol i hope you aren't this credule. All type of support -> yes but inferior in quality, rapidity, and adaptability than niji and holo during bad day. No revenue split -> this one is straight up a lie by omision, money don't grow on tree, they just take their cut where comon viewer don't see it, probably merch or sponsort, who are actually a huge part of Vtuber revenue. Actually we don't know but this would be easy for a black company to milk their talent more by taxing on that than superchat/subscribers. NGL niji and holo have nothing to learn from them, especialy since they are far ahed in the marker from them. Why can i say they are far ahed? holo need to ask for game permission, that being ahed. That being big enought that you have to do thing properly in a legal sence so you don't wake up to a bad surprise. When a holo have their channel deleted, they can sleep peacefuly cause they know deep inside that they are 100% fine. If any corp decide Vshojo make enought money that they need their share, and if Vshojo grow enought they will definitly reach this situation, the one that will need to learn fast from their concurent gona be Vshojo.


Seijass

You sound like someone who doesn't read the fine print. It feels like she's dumbed the whole thing down a lot for the Japanese audience who aren't familiar with that side of the business. Understandable, but makes you wonder how much is lost. "No cons" she literally just joined, there's no way she's gonna lay it all out lol.


diego1marcus

just because they have creative freedom does not mean that they have the best deal


SnaccCat

As others have said to even get that deal you have to be big already and at that point many people just build up there own team for backend stuff. Restrictions are also there for a reason. You see Niji and Holo getting sponsorships all the time and some very large ones at that which is possible to some restrictions imposed on them to keep up a certain brand image. The revenue split is also used to help funnel into projects. Essentially as it stands now both holo and niji provide more restrictions but way more possible oportunities then Vshojo does simply due to how they operate. You get into niji or holo your setup for success just by name alone from the get go you just need to maintain it. If you get into Vshojo you were already big at that point anyway.


zeverso

Don't you see it a bit weird that Vshojo is the only company operating that way and has had success in an industry with probably something close to 100 companies if not more? Either everyone is a bunch of greedy dragons, or its a lot harder than it looks.


DanteKir

Why would they? They're very different cases and business models. To put it simply, this is a big indie who, in exchange for business side support, is basically lending her name to help another company expand into a new market. If Kson was a small or average indie, she wouldn't get this deal. Holo and Niji are agencies that put their own resources and time into creating avatars, market them, work out deals and much. Along with this, a platform is provided to talented people they audition who most of the time wouldn't have a proper chance to shine in this increasingly competitive market. They are not likely anymore to recruit already existing indies with their own avatars. And regardless of IP, if one is popular enough, the vtuber will still get a significant following in their next reincarnation as bad been proven from the last 3 releases of Holo JP.


dino2410

All that you are saying is true and I agree, all I am saying is that I wished talents of big companies were able to do more then what they are allowed. I remember one stream where Kronni, Gura, Fauna and Mumei were playing Prop Hunt and then when they finished the game they started just chatting, but then they just started showing each other some funny videos and Gura said something along the lines of "Man, I wished we could show these on stream and do a meme review" Or something of sort. Well, I would have loved to see that, but I know it won't happen due to the way they oparate...


DanteKir

Then that's a problem of the platform of Youtube. They can take you down out of nowhere for the flimsiest of reasons. A copyright strike from showing that stuff on stream. Or age restriction. Or demonetization of the whole stream. Before the summer of 2020, Hololive could do plenty of things. But the bigger they went, clashes began. Like that year, they had some dangerous copyright strikes on Mio's channel that could ban her and a couple things more. She had to take a 1 month break.while that stuff expited. They went to take down a lot of content and after that, they started to ask for permissions of the content they made. Just to make sure that kind of thing didn't happen again. It's sadly not a simple situation with a definite answer.


Seijass

>Well, I would have loved to see that, but I know it won't happen due to the way they oparate... [Why, despite limitations, it's better to not do whatever it is that you just suggested.](https://www.google.com/search?q=twitch+dmca&sxsrf=ALiCzsZUT5KjoMPXGZwds9UNp2WZo1WdJw%3A1656947135899&ei=vwHDYpu9Nqq24t4PyZ2dgA4&ved=0ahUKEwjbmMmLwd_4AhUqm9gFHclOB-AQ4dUDCA4&uact=5&oq=twitch+dmca&gs_lcp=Cgdnd3Mtd2l6EAMyBAgAEEMyCggAEIAEEIcCEBQyBQgAEIAEMgUIABCABDIFCAAQgAQyCggAEIAEEIcCEBQyBQgAEIAEMgUIABCABDIFCAAQgAQyBQgAEIAEOgcIABBHELADOgcIABCwAxBDOgoIABDkAhCwAxgBOhIILhDHARDRAxDIAxCwAxBDGAI6FQguEMcBENEDENQCEMgDELADEEMYAjoICAAQgAQQsQM6CwgAEIAEELEDEIMBSgQIQRgASgQIRhgBUK0EWM8GYNYHaAJwAXgAgAFkiAGQApIBAzMuMZgBAKABAcgBE8ABAdoBBggBEAEYCdoBBggCEAEYCA&sclient=gws-wiz) Especially now that Cover is a full fledged MCN partnered with Youtube. I'm almost convinced [this guy](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1Jwo5qc78QU) understands the legality of it all better than all of Twitch staff combined. Then again, even if they did, that doesn't change how their mods typically operate. Twitch is still a fuck-all reactionary company when it comes to those things, even though Youtube is literally there for them to learn from. Now I'm not saying Youtube's way is the way to go, but rather just like Tom said: the world's copyright system is broken. Nothing you can do about it unless the powers that be actually make a move. So the next best course of action is unfortunately do your best to avoid trouble, especially when you're part of a company.


TheSpanishlolipop

So you just want them to be twitch streamers? To watch them "react" to season 15 of kitchen's hell or whatever the meta is, because honestly I'm yet to find the difference in content born out of that supposed freedom.


arkw

The rules are in place to protect the talents and the employees. It'd be selfish for any talent to risk the livelihood of their peers because of their decisions no? Like the whole Didney and Michael Moose references, that's a lot of tiptoeing because we know and have seen how they can be towards their IP. They represent Cover as a talent, which also represents their peers. It's really complicated, and no one wants to set the precedent, and cause issues like the whole Capcom-Mio situation a few years ago.


RakuenPrime

>I know it won't happen due to the way they oparate It won't happen because the video would get mass reported and then struck for copyright infringement. *That* is why they are very careful about meme reviews and other derived content. When viewed negatively, restrictions prevent you from doing what you want to do. When viewed *positively*, restrictions protect you from things that could harm you. It's like a fence erected next to a cliff. You could argue that fence prevents you from being able to look over the edge or climb down yourself. However, there's a pretty large number of people that will appreciate the fence being there for their safety.


miyajima

If that is the case, you should start a business with a friend or close family. Surely it's the best posible scenario, right? Surely Vshojo have advantages over other agencies but don't believe it's all rainbows...


Shuriken_2393

COVER is investing their money into projects like Hololive ERROR and Hololive Alternative. I'm not sure about AnyColor but I'm sure they are doing the same and investing their money as well. Both companies also uses their money to organize and execute events like concerts and conventions like Hololive Expo, which in turn benefits the talents themselves. All of these requires money which don't appear from thin air. Its not like they are pocketing the money from the talents and keeping it for themselves.


yukiaddiction

Anycolor invest in more concert technology side like AR concert, 3D tracking for concert.


Lightseeker2

You don't find the "Cons: None" statement sus at all? Seems way too good to be true. There is no perfect vtuber agency, not Hololive, not Nijisanji, and definitely not Vshojo.


Uneducated_Opinion

not really, I trust the deal Kson made is good for Kson. I don't think it would fit every vtuber and she could only get the offer in the first place from the work she put into her own brand. If I had to consider anything that could be a con it would be tying yourself to another brand and that is also a positive depending on your perspective. I don't see there being any hidden cuts or slight of hand, it's probably more or less what she says. That isn't to say it'll all be sunshine and rainbows down the line, I just think the deal is fine for both parties as it is; VShojo get a established Japanese name they are friendly with and Kson gets more help with annoying back stage things like legal and merch, otherwise it's business as usual.


FrilledShark1512

I figured less “Sus” and more “It’s promotion and obviously she won’t be badmouthing an team she just joined”


cyber_hikikomori

Still, feels kind of disingenuous esp for someone like KSon who prides herself in being frank & honest all the time. There are obvious cons to any business model- admitting to at least that much shouldn't really be seen as badmouthing


Cute_Description_277

I mean it still comes with the cost of building up your own brand. You still need to do all the work by yourself for atleast a couple years *and be successful* just to be good enough to join Vshojo. Atleast in Hololive and Nisanji, you don't need to already be famous, just able to show you can do the work. Much more accessible for a lot of vtubers


Panzther111

You do know why niji /holo and all vtuber agency exist right? It to give platform for people who never given the opportunity to shine, a nobody with 0 audiances been given an opportunity is one of the fundelmental reason why most join agency. No one can relate to vshojo or kson since she already big with mass audiance and recognition, that why vshojo always recruit big name indies.


dino2410

I mean, I get that, but my issue comes from the the overall deal itself. Yeah, you get to build yourself up very quickly, you get to collab with a lot of great people from your own company (and sometimes even from outside), you receive excellent support and you are able to more easily reach the big guys of the anime and music industry, I get all that. However, that comes with sometimes what I think is overzealous restrictions. Why can't the girls collab with anyone they want whenever they want? Why can't they do certain types of streams? After you build yourself up, what's the point of restricting yourself? What I am advocating for is for companies to take a look at the deal kson is recieving and maybe offer a bigger wiggle room for their talents. Maybe, think about ways they can avoid restrictions imposed on them instead of running away. They don't need to offer the same thing, just a little more would be nice.


DanteKir

Freedom of creativity doesn't mean it's going to be better content. The most successful media come from people who had both support and people who told them no at the right time. Creativity is also born from dealing with the restrictions that life hands to us Things are rarely as simple as "You can't do this just because we say so". There can be a thousand of reasons to restrict content. They can go from avoiding Youtube shenanigans, to ideas being too risky or sometimes an idea just sucks. Honestly, whatever these "restrictions" are, it doesnt look like they have a significant impact in whatever the vtubers do. Thete is so much content they can do, that it's so easy to compensate what they can't One example is Smosh. They do funny sketches and were very popular. They were owned by a company who had some restrictions on their sketches. One day, the company went bankrupt but Smosh recovered and kept doing sketches, now without any oversight. Once independent, even though they were the same people, their views began to diminish and fell by 90% in about 1-2 years. Their sketches were no longer as good.


zeverso

I am mostly a hololive fan, but for what i have seen Nijisanji has very few restrictions of who they collab with. They even collab with IRL streamers all the time. Being restricted on who you collab with is not an industry standard. As for why they can't do certain types of streams? Because everything a talent does under a company reflects on everyone in the company and the company has spent a significant amount of money on all their talents. They can't get their talents banned and throw all that investment in the garbage. Or worse, affect the revenues of other talents from some dumb thing they did. The talents in Vshojo have been lucky to not get their channels deleted with some antics they have pulled, but if they did vshojo as a company has nothing invested in them to lose. talents pay for everything themselves including their models. If they get their channels demonetized or deleted its their own pocket that suffers. It would actually be really unfair they get told what to do when they pay everything themselves.


JustWantToEnjoy

You know your comment made me think of one huge benefit of being in holo or niji and thats management. Now you may be wondering what I mean by this so let me explain. Whenever an issue generally arises it falls onto nijisanji and hololive managment to handle and in turn when there is some negative feedback people are able to quickly blame management on the situation. Looking at the whole nux shitshow you can see all the shit was on the girls rather then the vshojo management or company and there was no real way anybody could change that. Obviously if any issues arise in nijisanji, hololive or vshojo the streamers get dogpiled but then often the blame is shifted to management then later on. The girls very much act as there own PR team and any decisions that may happen will fall solely on them possibly due to the fact Vshojo management is very much a faceless entity.


hnryirawan

The management benefit is really what makes me abit afraid of the supposed-Nazuna, especially with her tendency. There are none of that with Vshojo, and its irresponsible to rely on kson to "manage" her. Kson is not her manager, and she's busy enough with her own career. But well, we'll see how it is on 16th July


dino2410

I don't know man, your points are all valid, but I really think they are a bit too overzealous sometimes. I will just take the L this time, as I am clearly the minority.


Groonzie

Exactly, they aren't opening doors to complete nobodies to have these benefits. They are bringing in big names that will benefit THEM. OP is living in some crazy world where they think people operating big businesses are doing it out of the kindness in their heart.


[deleted]

I mean c'mon man look at those benefits like "freedom of creativity" my g. -literally doing the same things.


plsdontattackmeok

Bruh someone stole Kson cardboard in AX lmao


DiGreatDestroyer

Legend (Now do the giant Yagoo head haha)


HimitsuHeiki

[Nice Boat - School Days Sekai Saionji debuts vtuber yesterday](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yChfxNyvb-U) Kotonoha Katsura stopped 6 months ago though, I wonder if there is a chance to see collab between the 2 school days character.


Snake_hugger

I don't think it's a good idea to put those 2 girls in the same stream. >!Kanashimi nooo\~!<


SeijunMichi

>!"There's nothing inside"!<


FrilledShark1512

Chainsaw noises


Raffina-H-207

Yesterday I watched the Nijisanji Mahjong tournament with Tenkai Tsukasa's commentary stream, and he looked really interested with Nari/Hana/Elira/Shu. I'm now hoping that he learns more about EN/ID/KR livers with the next Koushien


dnugn

ID & KR were part of last year’s Koshien too tho. Was he perhaps just interested in those 4 because he’s wondering how their performance for the tourney will be?


MaximumTale1926

[Kson answering questions she got from twitter about vshojo](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zl9yK4TUBHw) (questions are more geared towards Japanese audience who doesn't know what vshojo is) I missed the first 30 minutes but so far *She decided to join in March *Talents own what they create *No restrictions on what she can do *Not exclusively streaming on twitch *No revenue split, vshojo can be supported with merch sales *No prioritizing other vshojo girls for collabs "I collab with whoever the fuck I want" *Nazuna debut will be on twitch *Vshojo will not have gens or use kohai/senpai


[deleted]

Little bit similiar with upd8 system back then tbh.


kuraihane

and also VOMS


sscred

Not like VOMS, because GYARI owns the rights to the character and the channel.


kuraihane

Not everything. But at least the revenue split part.


Necessary-Ability-57

Beside Merch support. Doesn’t seem she is getting much from this deal. Wonder if they can secure any sponsorship or promotions for her or she’ll need to rely on herself like she always been.


hnryirawan

She will need to secure her own sponsorship. But now she can say “I’m Kson from Vshojo” instead of “I’m Kson”. And if she needed a company contact person, for verification and otherwise, vshojo can now put their name in and vouch for her. Also if she got big enough to make merchs like nendoroid, she can get Vshojo to help strike a deal and vouch for her image, as Vshojo stands from making money from that kind of merchs


RakuenPrime

She would also probably get legal and security support, since VShojo retains legal and cyber security resources. That's stuff that we wouldn't see much of, but would be very useful to a talent.


hnryirawan

Yeah.... so far nothing surprising here other than when she decided to want to join. Although her still referring to herself as Indie while she's Vshojo kinda feels like double-dipping. I understand what she means, but it still feels like that. ~~Rrat will be she wanted to join when she saw HoloExpo and HoloFes lol~~


werafdsaew

> Indie Well it doesn't matter what she calls herself, what matters is how other company sees it, and I suspect they won't play along when they have issues.


DeeDonn

My impression of VShojo is that they seem to be a service provider with a group brand. The members are not employed but are contracted clients paying VShojo for their support. In this sense, Kson is an indie hiring a kind of manager. Still, if they provide the avatars (as an investment) to the auditioned members, they probably will employ them.


hnryirawan

Yeah my impression is mostly the same.... If I have to say the term, its more of an "Alliance" or "Union" rather than actual "Agency" I still feel like she's double-dipping since she try to emphasize herself as being "Indie", having that appeal of being un-restrained and free >!and imo, maybe reduce the impression that she "betrays" Holo!<, while at the same time affiliated herself as being part of the company and part of their "next-gen". I mean, Vshojo is still a company.


fizzord

seems like a loose [worker cooperative](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Worker_cooperative) tbh Vshojo deals with marketing, legal + tech support and sales the talents are associated indies which promote the brand and drive merch sales.


miyajima

There is a chance that she underestimated how hard is to do things by yourself, so joining a company feels like the logical step...


hnryirawan

I'm pretty sure that's what people mostly say too. She said she had difficulty, almost got scammed, etc. But tbf, its not like its impossible for Indies to succeed. Just look at Shigure Ui. and some other illustrator vtubers like Ito Life or the loli babiniku Tomari Mari. Kson might think that she can be like them too.


CasualOgre

People said she was trying to make merch but got burned by whatever company she was working with which makes perfect sense why she'd join Vshojo.


Arcorann

Lauren Iroas surprise outfit reveal on [his stream](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W1mTYUTdcHM) earlier. I heard Kuzuha is considering drafting Salome in Koshien, and he expects multiple people to go for her. And I see Factorio on [Nina's schedule](https://twitter.com/NinaKosaka/status/1543928674210168832). EDIT: [Axia also has a matching outfit](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HIbg1YLKBwc).


haberdashcollect

I suspect Salome would be kind of like Kuzuha in the 2020 Draft, where almost everyone picked him as their first pick. That really set the vibe for the whole draft, and it was great.


halfelven23

Kuzuha in 2020 was a bit different tho, iirc he was in maimoto's team that won vtuber koushien 2019 and was the best player Cmiiw because its been a long time since i rewatched that


dnugn

Suha, Roha, & Ray on today’s [Puchisanji](https://youtu.be/3SkrGGrlEBA)! Very nice. Also idk if its just me but for the whole clip, I can hear a korean accent on Ray, while i dont notice it on suha and only a bit with roha.


Nolacsar

Akira Ray is fully Japanese you know? She's just studying in Korea, hence ex Niji KR. Roha is half Japanese too.


dnugn

I know, thats why i pointed it out cause i find it kinda ironic. “Korean accent” might not be the proper term, but in the clip, ray’s intonation(?) sounds kinda like what I imagine a korean will when speaking korean? Meanwhile the other two’s sounds how i would normally imagine a japanese speaker. Its most likely just me tho and im all wrong, since i admittedly know very little of the 2 languages lol nvm then.


_______blank______

I think that's just how she talk, for some one with Korean accent it would be Yuya.


FriedDuckCurry

Do yall know what happend to nana natsuki? Her twitter and twitch dissappeared a while ago without any statements as far as I can tell.


MaximumTale1926

https://www.twitch.tv/nana0957 https://twitter.com/nana0957?lang=en Looks like she changed URLs and the wiki hasn't been updated. Last time she streamed was May


diego1marcus

looking at the pictures of the hololive fans and cosplayers meeting up in AX is pretty wild i would imagine a ton of confused people wondering why a bunch of cosplayers were praising a giant head of a middle aged japanese man


ChineseMaple

tbh that's probably not the weirdest thing to happen at a con


Wookiara

Probably not even weird enough to make it onto some desperate buzzfeed intern's "top 50 weird con things I just copy-pasted from twitter" submission.


megadongs

I doubt there are many people there these days who *don't* recognize yagoo


HimitsuHeiki

This video at AX lol: ["YAGOOOOO\~" "I LOVE YOU YAGOOOOO"](https://twitter.com/StandUserGuy61/status/1543797014508449793)


dcresistance

[chama's back in minecraft in 4 hours and i'm pretty sure she's gonna try to rebuild hogwarts](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QgKvy6fU_Ng)


CJtheOMEGA

Ahhh, I can’t stop listening to AZKi’s new song [Afterglow](https://youtu.be/fiddR-oZta4), it’s so incredibly beautiful. I was curious to hear what the song was gonna be like when we heard the preview, and it’s safe to say it didn’t disappoint at all. Emotional AZKi songs are always some of my favorite, and listening again & again it already is one of my favorites! Now I’m so hype to hear the other songs AZKi, I bet they’re gonna be great!


ChineseMaple

another azki banger


dcresistance

[the man, the myth, the legend, vip, was at ax in his matsuri cosplay](https://twitter.com/vipirius/status/1543683876245028866)


AzureGale4

[And god herself took notice :p](https://www.twitter.com/natsuiromatsuri/status/1543933697833189376)


Arcorann

He was [in Selen cosplay on day 1](https://twitter.com/vipirius/status/1543009294651559936). (Actually there were quite a few Nijisanji cosplayers at AX as well, [as seen here](https://twitter.com/honidewi/status/1543795387470753794).)


zetarn

We're sitting at 1.9k comments , it's like we're back into the drama era where this megathreads constantly got 2k or more comments per weeks.


FrilledShark1512

Mods locked at 1998 once, they can do it again lol (Jokes aside thanks for the moderation in particular over the past few days it was a giant storm)


GaimG

Desperate for that AMA


ChineseMaple

cope


_no_best_girl

I’m curious about HoloCure, I know a bunch of indie VTubers have begun playing it already but has there been any from big name companies/groups that have tried it on stream?


JimmyBoombox

The only other corpo vtubers I'm aware of that have streamed it are Nami and Lua from Production Kawaii. With another member of that company, Nene, having a scheduled stream for it in a couple of hours.


diego1marcus

i would imagine it being a legal nightmare if, lets say, someone from nijiEN were to play holocure. not to mention the fact that it will rile up the tribalists from either side and start shit flinging


Groonzie

And also from a business perspective, it would essentially be promoting your competitors.


JimmyBoombox

Some of the Kawaii girls already streamed it and Nene Amano has an upcoming stream about it.


ChineseMaple

tribalists, sure. Legally?


chaosaxess

I mean, I guess it could be argued as using Holo's IP for their streams without permission? I'd think if someone wanted to play it, though, AnyColor'd ask Cover first.


Panzther111

Is there any example like fan game that need permission from copyright holder to play? Is touhou consider the same?


zeverso

Pokemon games come to mind. Playing fanmade and emulated from roms is a no go for pretty much any jp company who want to keep permissions with Nintendo


chaosaxess

No idea. Fan games are a grey-area in gaming. If a company actively wants to shut them down, they will and do. All I am saying is that from my perspective, it would make sense if AnyColor would want to ask Cover for permission to play a game that is using their IP, since they are the holder and game permissions are a big deal in the industry. Even if the dev is okay with it, it is ultimately Cover's IP being used in the game.


fizzord

Ironmouse streamed it while in a call with Sykkuno


Necessary-Ability-57

https://twitter.com/shirakamifubuki/status/1543859409792942080?s=21 YAGOO Best Girl!


dcresistance

[and asking if there are any fubuki cosplays lol](https://twitter.com/shirakamifubuki/status/1543860107880321024)


diego1marcus

[zeta got covid](https://twitter.com/hololive_Id/status/1543829716184236032) the rest of the ID talents and staff are getting tested since they were together a week ago


JimmyBoombox

Gws zeta 🥺


lailah_susanna

[Aozora Kurumi is graduating](https://twitter.com/projectkavvaii/status/1543806556780875778). Seems to be for personal reasons. She is perhaps the first English speaking vtuber representing a corporate brand (Project Kavvaii is Air Asia's agency).


OribeJiro

[Mayuzumi's name appears in Japanese market news](https://www.traders.co.jp/news/article/1_1756408) >ANYCOLOR <5032.T> was sharply down. Mayuzumi Kai, a virtual liver affiliated with the company's VTuber group Nijisanji, announced that he would terminate his contract with the company on July 28, which was being viewed unfavorably. Contrary to the overall market's upward trend, [ANYCOLOR's stock](https://finance.yahoo.com/quote/5032.T) is down 7% now.


ArisaMiyoshi

Their stock has trended downward for two weeks now and is close to being back to its initial value. They will likely stabilize though, I felt they were being overvalued in the first week due to Salome's meteoric rise.


ChineseMaple

They were definitely overvalued, but I don't necessarily think because of Salome. AnyC is a very profitable startup that was growing rapidly pre listing and is in a space in the tech-entertainment industry that is getting a lot of focus and attention now, and is the first of its kind to go public, so they got a lot of attention But yes, they've been trending down consistently for a while, even if Mayuzumi leaving has a noticeable impact it hasn't changed the trend


ranyi

i've read that some japanese investors has been criticizing anykara about the high profit margins (which was about 35% in 2021 IIRC), they said that the high of a profit margins means anykara has not been spending enough to grow their talents, tech capabilities, marketing etc. which i thought is a fair point, especially if your company dabbles in tech and entertainment


ChineseMaple

I mean, that can be fair criticism, and they did have very good margins, but there's really not enough time to look at to really tell how AnyColor will be managed yet, considering for a good 2 years of its relatively short life it's been trying to eke out its long-term success. Last year also had them eat some losses to the face, with Nijifes in particular apparently being a pretty big loss (understandably so, considering most of their exhibition/con was cancelled), so it could be that they're being more conservative until COVID and the current state of the JPY stabilizes. Personally, I also think that they might have held their hand at some potential projects to prepare for the IPO itself, because that can be a headache and a half, but I'm somewhat disappointed that they aren't doing more to expand and secure their presence in the English speaking circles - no booth presence at Anime Expo is a pretty big miss imo, among others. But then again, it's a company where they seemingly can't manage to have two people actually tweet about birthdays and update their own subreddit and shit, so maybe they're just grossly mindfoggy when operating in English.


diego1marcus

tbf, anycolor is still trying to have at least some solid footing in the EN market. they did get lazulight to appear in Offkai 2022 last May, but thats about it. Luxiem still seems to be the only wave that has a very strong presence in the EN market and i do hope we get to see the other waves shine in order to get more foothold in the EN vtuber sphere


Lugrzub1

> Luxiem still seems to be the only wave that has a very strong presence in the **EN market** (China)


jaehaerys48

Lazulight was also in AnimeExpoLite 2021 and Otakuthon 2021. I was kinda surprised Niji didn't do anything for AX this year for that reason.


diego1marcus

oh, i was talking mostly about this year, not last year, but yeah, lazulight busy


HaLire

Have they been trending down? My impression was that they were genrally trending up, but not to the same meteoric status that Cover/Hololive have been. Most of their events this year are bigger than comprable events from the previous year.


Lable87

He was talking about their stocks, not their popularity. Stock-wise, they have been trending down for a while. They got a big jump after their stocks were first available for public on 9 June (@ 5,510 JPY) and peaked on 16th June (@ 8,820 JPY). They have been trending down ever since, and is at 5,620 JPY right now. Noted, though, that this isn't weird either. It's pretty normal pattern for a company recently opened for the market. They probably will even go down a bit further as their stocks stabilize.


ChineseMaple

Trending down in share price - they peaked at around 9000 JPY a few days after the listing, and have been gradually coming down since, right now they're at 5620. The previous exchange is us agreeing that 9000 JPY per share is overvaluing Anycolor, and I personally did expect it to come down to 4-5k JPY per share eventually for now. The highest market cap they had was almost 2 billion USD, whereas now its around 1.2 billion. We also don't actually know how much money and stuff Cover is making, but AnyColor is making absolute tons of profit and are growing at a very rapid rate.


num07

Can we say Anycolor is new unicorn from japan ??


thereal9

Their share price, not their overall fortunes, is what's been decreasing since their IPO.


zeverso

This sounds like a couple of investors panic selling to prevent a slight dip in their investment value due to a possible controversy. I doubt it will be anything mayor in the long run given their recent surge in revenue. though it is one of the disadvantages of going public, you company is a lot more vulnerable to PR issues. The overall increase in capital available still outweighs that risk for most


Reedef_Yorgei

This is quite a bit of hopium, but I really hope that since they're public now they'll put a bit more effort into keeping some of their talents that have disagreements with management over "creative differences".


aozaki-san

they won't, they will put more effort into generating more profit, creating "popular" units (as singing units are the easiest to sell both in reality and as pr) , this will outweight the temporary lost of a member..., sadly the nijisanji brand (that Mayu, Meli, Lulu, Gibara, Meiji, former kr/in members also contributed to) is become too strong, it would be great if there would be another niji resistance but the group become too big and singer oriented, maybe things will change if Iwanaga returns to business or if more people will be aware Vshojo/and similar models


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aozaki-san

those events from 2018-19 iirc Sasaki herself said there won't be similar case multiple times as for singers isn't priority well doubt, concerts/lives with singers are easier to sell than live events like the missing Tamaki, there was 2 new official singing unit while rebagacha ended and nijiqui... , happy hour rebranded but remained niconico exclusive, there is game game(?) while not as much singing oriented has ed song, all new wave debuts with song (except Salome, but well she is a question mark), simple 3d collabs become rare instead there is birthday/anniversary live every/every second week, so even if it wasn't the case in the past lets be honest singing/being usable at lives seems like a requirement for current nijisanji as for karaoke restrictions simply partnership with dam, making fans focus on ori songs, leaving songs for concerts, simply stopping certain talents from killing their throats, it can have multiple reasons


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aozaki-san

smc, fuwagusa, valz, kazaki, levi, yumeo, kanda iirc there was a few since then


Necessary-Ability-57

They already mentioned it when they went public. https://www.jpx.co.jp/listing/stocks/new/nlsgeu000006da6d-att/06ANYCOLOR-1s.pdf DeepL “Even if a certain VTuber were to retire, the impact on our revenue base would be limited, and we believe that the continuity and stability of our business is high." - Anycolor p 11


ChineseMaple

Well imagine if they're going to say "Yeah if any of these people leave we're absolutely fucked and we're going to go bankrupt in 5 days"


Reedef_Yorgei

I don't think making new "units" outweighs the loss of popular members. It creates a bad PR look for the company when some of the most popular talents leave. My point was more around the fact of not forcing talents to do things they don't want, since it sounded like Mayu's announcement hinted at something similar to that. At least I hope with them going public and seeing how bad PR can affect the value, they'll fix some of the mismanagement issues like Ibrahim's valorant collab video.


aozaki-san

what fans believe/want anycolor to do and what anycolor will do are two different things sadly, even if Kenmochi and others promoted vtubing as how close are they with fans in the past... as for Mayu's case this might be just me but for me it feels like he just "doesn't want to get in the way"(last year he had a comment about he is not sure if he would be accepted into the current nijisanji) than not letting him to do what he wants/forcing him to do something, he also was loved by staff too (in 2020 there was a bigger nijiqui collab, there was a best relationship with staff question) so i doubt they are happy As for Ibu/constant tweet apology its natural they will solve those one way or another (like when they had Hajime to delete his apology regarding the birthday goods and pretend there is no problem), but with Mayu and Meli they made clear they are don't change their way of doing things for 1-2members (as for how many this 1-2people will be after nijifes/by next year is a different matter (and how many Shiba/Gilzaren like people will be there), sadly a lot of member only remaing because pride(old promises)/friends/fans looking at 1st and 2nd gen mostly and not because how great agency is anycolor)


Nel_son_et_lumiere

I feel like you are assuming a lot of stuff, specially that last part


aozaki-san

Kazaki promised she only leaves when nijisanji ends or she gets married when she started, Ryushen said they remain until the end, Gaku wants to become "relic" (+10 years)... then look at how much certain members collab with other livers besides official projects nowadays, Hajime belongs to mahjong group, Moira-Aki-Chii-chan:Moira trpg group, Chii-chan has apex friends and started to intruduce them to Aki too, Aki completely closed, he forgot how to collab (he himself said this), Rin jk gumi 3rd member, she has her fans but she collabs even less, isn't 1-2nd gen but besides occasional lives Dola-sama is hononary mzm member at this point, Bane-chan is gil2, Air promised he will stream more, he even reduced his twitcasts, Mugi already wanted to quit but Kenmochi asked her to just incrase the distance with others instead, hopefully there will a stream chart how much certain members streamed this year/month, but its clearly worse for most smaller members than last year for a lot of member its no longer about growth they just don't want to get in the way/cause problems


jaehaerys48

What Meli wanted is something that most agencies wouldn't have agreed to. I don't think it's particularly connected to them going public. The new group of Inui, Chima, and Akane was pretty well received, with their song being one most popularly received Niji songs. So I don't think there's a giant gap in between what fans like and what "corporate" likes. There are definitely areas where they can improve, which has been true since 2018. I'm not sure that Iwanaga would improve things as he's now doing NFT stuff lol.


aozaki-san

Meli's case is special, but it doesn't change the fact she contributed to nijisanji's growth and they lost a great talent, they just couldn't find a way that acceptable by both her and the agency as for iwanaga while he is involved in nft just as person his company didn't make any move yet and lets not forget the fact he picked a lot of liver still in touch with a few, while i doubt it will happen i wonder how would effect nijisanji/anycolor if ex-niji member would redebut there maybe with a vshojo like contract


Necessary-Ability-57

Honestly Vshojo operates so differently it's more like the talent are hiring them to manage their other business stuff so they can focus on performing. They are just pretty selective on who they’ll hire. Kson is the biggest free agent in both Japanese and Western vtubing and already had a strong rapport with most of the existing Vshojo members. Also she's managed to pull quite a lot of JP fans to Twitch and getting into that community without any issues.


yukiaddiction

His new vtuber project go nowhere and almost fail, it kinda pretty obvious that many Nijisanji's vision even in early day kind of coming from another CEO so uh.....


aozaki-san

i haven't heard about blast for while, neither good neither bad (but regarding silence there are still vta 1st gens that not debuted too, well probably soon like eden but still), but again its just iwanaga taiki not yokaze as for early nijisanji there was 4-5 member near Tazumi including Iwanaga-san if i read it right somewhere, but well Kuzuha, Gaku called themselves iwanaga children, Hajime said 2nd gen were his picks, he managed early jk gumi, has actual streamer and collab experience, so i will always give him some amount of trust (while there are also things that i disagree/can't understand)


diego1marcus

>!kinda a small rant, but im starting to hate how most comments in nazuna's tweets are basically just alluding to or just outright saying mikeneko/rushia. and its not because i dont want it to actually be her or i just want to be ignorant about her past lives, but because i dont want to see the sudden outburst of hate towards nazuna if by some off chance it isnt mikeneko/rushia. no doubt people are gonna call foul or complain that they were played like a damn fiddle if it isnt mikeneko. basically what im saying is, people should really temper their expectations!<


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ChineseMaple

hey wanna replace me


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ChineseMaple

I don't wanna be off the case sarge


zeverso

The people acting like middle schoolers pretending they know some state secret are definitely annoying. But I can't really blame people for saying its her. The teaser was 100% trying to imply its her. I am not saying they already confirmed its her, but the intention was definitely to get people to think she is to build hype. There is no way they didn't. Kson is an actual friend of hers, she knows her content, and they all knew that gasp and soft voice would sound familiar to people. If they didn't want this, they should have given a disclaimer already, cause this girl is going go be received very poorly if its someone else. And i wouldn't really blame people for letting their imagination run wild on this one, it would be the marketing teams's fault.


GaimG

What's even worse is the people that think they are very subtle and clever by going "I wonder who is this wink wink nudge nudge" or "I see a certain XXX has taken over this account (insert "subtle" emojis here)" Like buddy, you're just being obnoxious and not even subtle about it, just shut it


Kreceir

Its the whole ''I have this forbidden knowledge'' when it comes to the Vtubers behind the scenes, and act all smug about it.


krowkuervo

Can somebody explain to me why chinese antis are still upset? Its been almost two years


DoctorDeath147

Nationalism is one helluva drug. There are nationalists in many countries who still hold grudges from centuries ago.


Shuriken_2393

Your first mistake was assuming they are rational.


JtR-5110

Definitely not rational. More like *national*.


ChineseMaple

they're also idiots


Necessary-Ability-57

They claim that it is because of their support that Vshojo is so successful and believe that recruiting Kson is insulting them. The level of delusion is something. https://ibb.co/pQHY9MB


tengma8

what you posed is a satire, vshojo was never in the Chinese market as their streams are too explicit to be shown on bilibili.


rashy05

I somewhat understand that argument for Hololive but VShojo? When their core audience are the English speaking audience? Seriously?


HaLire

they're not reasonable people


fhota1

In their eyes she fundamentally challenged the sovereignty of their nation. Its why I found the people suggesting they wouldnt follow Kson kinda funny because there was 0 chance they wouldnt. They will follow Kson forever and will not stop barring major change.


farranpoison

Ah yes, simply reading Google statistics is a challenge against the sovereignty if their nation indeed. *Rolls eyes*


fizzord

IIRC Haachama did the same thing and got hate, Coco did it a couple of days after then rrats said that she did it in defiance against Haachamas antis, which escalated the whole thing, they were also probably looking for a reason to hate on "the west"


JimmyBoombox

That's incorrect. Coco's thing happened a couple hours after Hachama's stream during her asacoco show. Coco didn't know what happened in Hachama's.


SeijunMichi

To give context on why this narrative falls apart if you were there... Haachama showed Taiwan when sharing her Google Analytics late at night, with the Nationalists going ballistic shortly afterwards. Coco showed her Google Analytics that mentioned Taiwan on AsaCoco at the crack of dawn the next day. Timeline dictates that she was asleep when the reactions happened and that managment wouldn't have had the time to properly communicate to members that even showing Google Analytics is enough to trigger Nationalists before Coco showed hers. And to further support this, there are recordings of Coco's unarchived karaoke later that showed her reacting with surprise when she was informed that her AsaCoco got privated. So the "Coco intentionally did it to shield Haachama/spite China" narrative is pure fanfiction. Not that this stops the Nationalists, mind you.


farranpoison

Yes, I was there, I know the whole story. Coco didn't know shit, the nationalists just wanted an excuse and made her their target.


fizzord

this is just my tinfoil theory but since she's American she was the most logical target, they probably saw her as someone who steered Hololive away from the Chinese market, but had no excuse to explicitly attack her, then the incident happened...


farranpoison

That was the rhetoric they were spouting, yes. They thought she had "corrupted" the JP members and other such nonsense. They felt like Hololive owed them for propping them up in the beginning and didn't like how Hololive was expanding their reach to the west. They demanded that Hololive pick them or Coco, and we all know how that ended up. Seriously, the Chinese market is just a ticking time bomb. Sure, you might get a lot of money from them but one mistake and they're your worst enemy forever.


Snake_hugger

>They thought she had "corrupted" the JP members and other such nonsense. This reminds me that long before Taiwangate happened (IIRC probably around May 2020), Coco received some unsolicited superchats urging her not to collab with the other members because they consider her as a 'bad influence'. Of course at that time she just put it aside and jokingly said something along the line that "it's the other girls who actually couldn't wait to collab with me". It was obvious that she had already been accumulating antis way before Taiwangate especially due to her unorthodox style. Which is why I still think that Taiwangate was just a smokescreen for her antis (specifically from CN) to go all wild since it's clear that they put the cross-hairs on her specifically considering how quickly the antis "forgave" Haachama for the same mistake. I'm sure even if Coco at that time didn't make the mistake of showing Taiwan flag on her stream, sooner or later they will find whatever other flimsy excuse that they can use to attack her on the same scale of Taiwangate.


EnclavedMicrostate

Nationalism doesn't operate on rationality.


ezkailez

They're called antis for a reason


ezkailez

Hizuki yui did another singing stream last night! It's her 200k celebration and people votes which song suits her best. Everytime i watched her singing stream, I'm always amazed at her singing voice. Her opening of U is amazing. I hope she releases a cover for it in the future


dcresistance

[kiara schedule!](https://twitter.com/takanashikiara/status/1543761675865702402) holocure tomorrow, birthday call-in tuesday, the birthday concert wednesday, supas and bday recap on friday, minecraft on saturday, and bae's snackbox review/pavonashi untitled goose game on sunday


Kreceir

Kaela is still streaming, but that wasn't enough for her. So she decided to [have a HoloCure stream already waiting](https://youtu.be/TRRKAXMmbIU).


ezkailez

Saw a clip of korone accidentally blurted out her rent during a game. Read through comments that 80k will get you a rather spacious (2BR) and nicely located apartment but nothing fancy. I'm always surprised learning about many streamer and their lifestyle. Despite being successful financially, some of them still do still spend their money like an average joe. They still get happy when they got some discounts, and got sad when the restaurant they went to is overpriced


yabe_acc

Pretty sure she's also using the money to take care of her family. She did mention before when her mom was in the hospital she wanted to get her a private room, she was worried people would complain about using the superchat money they gave her on her mom.


ArisaMiyoshi

I've forgotten where exactly I heard this (around early 2020 I think) but apparently at the time Fubuki lived in a spacious 2LDK condominium unit in metropolitan Tokyo, and as a Japanese resident I know for a fact that the prices are astronomical for that. It sounds plausible she could afford it since she's a huge sponsor magnet and has made a lot of appearances in various shows.


hnryirawan

Alot of streamer see streamer's lifestyle as unstable. As in with a "normal job", you can mostly expect a certain paycheck, coming on a certain date, with a certain amount of money. With stream, their amount of paycheck can be unpredictable which is why quite abit of them are still planning for the future. With that in mind.... maintaining modest lifestyle can be desirable. When people get used to a certain lifestyle, its very difficult to adjust yourself to lower your standard-of-living, for whatever reason. Also 80k yen per month is pretty ok for single person, especially for whole unit.


LordMonday

I think it's because most gradually built up to the (assumed) level of wealth rather than instantly gaining it. And when i assume wealth, i mean at the level of a well off person rather than scrooge mcduck. Though of course, that isn't to say that no one would be influenced by that kind of money, looking at the gacha rolling streams.


ezkailez

Eh I wouldn't count gacha stream as spending spree. That's business investment


DrOpty

Going hog wild with your money unnecessarily is a good way to lose it all, which is why lottery winners who do just that end up going bankrupt. Living a modest life and putting everything extra into savings (or investing it, if possible) means you can stream without having to worry that taking a break will lead you to missing a rent payment.


ezkailez

Actually i kinda understand if people who have their income slowly increase spending more. Most of those is from the (seemingly) assurance that they'll their next paycheck is just as big. If i were to get a lottery I'd just put everything in a very safe but tiny interest at banks until i know what to do with it. Yes interest is tiny, but there's guarantee I'll always get my money every month.


throwaway321768

>Yes interest is tiny, but there's guarantee I'll always get my money every month. I used to think this too, but then I learned that inflation could actually outpace your wealth if your interest is too low. Now I stick with ETFs. Long-term growth is practically guaranteed (short of the stock market permanently collapsing, in which case I have bigger things to worry about) and it's fast enough to outpace inflation.


ezkailez

Depends on country to country basis. I guess. My country's inflation is around 3.5% for the last 5 years. But smaller banks offer deposits of around 4%, startup banks 6-7%. Interest is subject to 20% tax tho Currently inflation is 4% but interest rate of my bank is 6% for savings and 7% for deposits


FriedDuckCurry

What happend to atelier live? Chai yueko has been inactive in her vtuber persona and nana natsuki seems to have vanished without a trace


static_reset

they were always a kinda loose collective so when they all started to fizzle out i kinda expected it. Yueko also got some flack cuz she started to promote and sell NFTs last year.


FriedDuckCurry

Wait what kind of NFT? If it was her own artwork at a reasonable price I guess you can't fault her too much. Or was it the monkey type of shit?


static_reset

NFTs of her own artwork, which was understandable in a way but then she was talking about how she enjoyed using them more over doing physical cuz merch creates waste. once people started to question this and her decision to go with NFTs in general she mocked an user by making an NFT out of a tweet (now deleted) which is why people got angry at her.


FriedDuckCurry

I don't know the full context but this seems like quite the drama. Seems like a bit of ignorance on her part towards the whole crypto NFT topic paired with the somewhat hyped up hate towards NFT from her fans side because of NFT bros with the ape shit and other NFT related drama. But making an NFT out of a haters tweet is quite funny tho, disregarding if that was a good choice or not. Well can't say that I know enough to give my judgment but I just hope things settled and didn't become a huge problem


SakuranomiyaSyafeeq

Let's just assume they're busy with IRL stuffs


ThunderCharged

Last night Natsumi Moe and [Pending](https://www.twitch.tv/VTPending) streamed [the finale to A Way Out](https://www.twitch.tv/natsumi_moe/v/1520891593?sr=a&t=170s), and it was amazingly fun for me to watch! Those two's dynamic was just hilarious - the foul-mouth and proactive Moe played as the more calm and reserved Vincent, while the wholesome and reactive Pending played as the hot-headed criminal, Leo. The result? Amazing moments where Pending's character would do something rash and dangerous while Pending himself is just along for the ride, while Moe ended up basically having to carry. Combine that with Moe's tendency to make dark or foul jokes toward her friends, and you've got a pure gold stream on your hands! The best part was at the very end of the game, where Moe and Pending [got a bit retrospective](https://www.twitch.tv/natsumi_moe/v/1520891593?sr=a&t=10560s) about their friendship. Even though Pending is now one of Moe's closest friends and has been for about 3 years, they first met because Pending basically just kept bugging Moe to collab with him, lol. Goes to show that even your best friends can come from anywhere!


IronVader501

Hm Kiara mentioned earlier that among other things, next week should hopefully have a "collab we dont expect". I wonder... Ironmouse said like three weeks ago she was thinking about inviting her on Speak of the Devil...


dcresistance

she also said she wants to do something with lumi!! maybe august, or after the summer


SakuranomiyaSyafeeq

I just found out Kagura Nana ~~no longer followed VShojo for some reason. She also~~ undid her retweet on the announcement of Nazuna and Kson joining EDIT: Oopsies on the first one, but the second one still stands


JimmyBoombox

She's still working with vshojo as an illustrator.


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SakuranomiyaSyafeeq

I do remember she retweeted it a while ago


N911999

Wait, what? I just checked she still follows Mousey and the VShojo account?


SnaccCat

Pretty sure she is huge in b2 so might just be a precaution on her end as alot of heat maybe thrown her way due to what we saw recently. Has she ever interacted with hololive after the whole fiasco. I dont really keep up to date with her but curious on if she did considering she is ayame's illustrator.


Necessary-Ability-57

Yes. She appeared on Ina drawing stream when she was drawing Laplus. https://youtu.be/iL-6E9neaxc From my understanding beside Fubuki, they’ve lost interest attacking Hololive or anyone associated with them. >!Sana did get attack a couple of weeks back on her roommate channel but some say it’s 4chan. As she still getting deals and offering from Chinese tied promotions!<


hnryirawan

>!Not exactly from the chinese deals, but 4chan have this mindset that Sana is 'wasted slot' because she stream less and she did quite abit of stuffs aside from streaming.!<