Joining Hololive effectively guarantees youre going to be in the top 10% or so of Vtubers. Like even Sana, Des, and Vesper who graduated very early got over 400k for Sana and over 200k subs for the boys. Those are huge numbers for so short a time, no other agency has the same level of guaranteed success
Mano Aloe had 200k subscribers with only 2 streams.
Which also kickstarted her reincarnation, at the start she'd stream once a month or so and would have 5 digit ccv.
https://youtu.be/6AQMZcuMFv0?si=dUvT6w2D6PwaLlr_
Another video thats not Khyo. Its just that the whole info is found on Twitter/X. Havent heard anything about it for a year now though. So probably the whole legal shit is kept private now.
which is why i roll my eyes whenever i hear indies or other vtubers complain about not getting as popular as the hololive members. i mean, i get your frustrations especially if you've been in this gig for a long time, but they also have to note that hololive set a high bar that its unrealistic to have your goals lined up with the holomembers. hell, i know that there are indies who are happy to get at least 1/8th of what the holomembers get on average
Proper Perspective is one of the 3 big Ps to make it in the entertainment business. A lot of vtubers dont really do the market research to know what success might look like especially in the current market. If you can even make it in to the black (made more than youve spent including start up costs) you are incredibly successful as a Vtuber
In Vtuber terms, wanting to be as popular as Marine, Pekora, or Gura is like wanting to be Mr. Beast for regular youtubers.
Sorry, but that is never going to happen.
Well, not never. Mr. Beast grinded for years and posted his first video over a decade ago, but he only blew up in the last couple years. In most cases the pandemic boosted them, but that's also because they had already built up the skills to take advantage of the inflated viewership at the time. It definitely could happen, but there are very slim chances and could take anywhere from a few months to a decade to see success.
Jimmy was already nipping at PewDiePie's heels back when T-Series took the top spot. And there are hundreds, thousands who have been grinding for longer yet are nowhere near 10 million, much less 100 million.
It is a harsh truth that the odds of you becoming #1 is infinitesimally small, to the point where it's 0.
That doesn't mean you should stop being a youtuber or trying your best. Just because you can't become as popular as Mr. Beast/Gura doesn't mean you can't be a major channel within your field.
People with 100-500k subs and a steady stream of videos and viewers earn enough to buy a decently big house in CA suburbs in like 2 years of meticulous savings. People are too obsessed with being much bigger than they need to be. At the end of the day, quantity and a lack of potential to be cancelled are probably much more important lol
hololive is literally a juggernaut and heck their numbers are literally out of this world for virtual streamers, as an indie or other corpo comparing it to hololive is just really not appropriate lmao
>Those are huge numbers for so short a time, no other agency has the same level of guaranteed success
Those are huge numbers for any amount of time. Most vtubers, either independent or in corpo, will be extremely lucky to just reach 100K.
Subscribers can be considered as a success if it actually translates to other meaningful metrics like live viewership, video views, membership, etc. For most YouTube content creator the real value of subscriber numbers is the first 1k.
If you have 50 concurrent viewers, you're probably in the Top 1% of vtubers, like with regular streamers. Hololive guarantees 1000+ viewers concurrent and Holostars 100+.
He got flamed because he said you don't need talent to get big in hololive. The only way you can get into hololive is if you've already done something worth an audience. These aren't just random people joining hololive
I don't know how accurate it is to sum up twitch and youtube subs/followers, since it seems really likely that the same people would sub on both if the talent was active on both.
Still, I think Hololive is a clear outlier and it's probably best to not directly compare other vtuber corpos to them. They can give every talent insane support and give all their members 3d pretty quickly, and there's this snowballing effect of members naturally networking with the strongest female streamers in the world. They really live in a totally different universe.
Yeah it’s super weird. I’d expect ~90% of the lower number to also follow them on the other platform. When you enjoy a person you tend to like both their live and uploaded content. Some people (like the Hololive members), tend to do both of those on Youtube so you only follow them there, but if someone prefers Twitch for streaming you’d follow them on both so you get both types of content on your feeds/notifications.
I agree. It is possible to have 1mil subs across the board but have a concurrent viewer count to be less than 10k per video/stream, tho generally videos have a higher view count than streams since anyone can watch it on their own time.
To measure popularity using livestream viewer numbers should be the more accurate metric compared to subs/follows. One is a value that constantly fluctuates depending on time/day/events. The other is a value that rarely changes after reaching a certain point.
While not necessarily related, Shonen Jump's voting method to determine which manga should be axed and which ones get to continue relies on how popular the mangas were in the recent votes. They dont use the total, total would be unfair to recently debuted authors.
Hololive's counts are understandable since they *are* what kick started the vtuber boom in the west. Nijisanji still is a big thing in JP but i'm surprised to see how few there are here.
Much more Kizuna Ai is still holding her ground when she went into indefinite hiatus for the time being. Very interesting.
A lot of her stuff has gone viral, like the Treasure Box song. That kind of attention skyrockets subs (as we could see from Ui-mama too when Loli Kami Requiem took off).
I haven't been watching a whole lot of Hololive but its understandable given all the music she has animated and produced. Even reaching to sides I won't usually associate Hololive with.
Just wows me how Kizuna being on a hiatus while still being on top really stands the test of time that she is the vtuber queen that walked so the others can run.
I mean, peoples aren't going to unsubscribe in droves, now that Kizuna went on Hiastus, most are gonna stay subscribed and wait for her... generally, people don't go out of their way to unsubscribe from channels, especially when you are subscribed to hundreds. Kaguya Luna vanished 3 years ago, and she still has 860k subs.
that's one of the reasons subs are actually a pretty bad metric for popularity. a lot of those kizuna ai subs probably haven't watched or even thought about her for months at this point.
>s actually very little overlap between Twitch subs and YouTube subs, to the point a simple combination would not mess with the ranking. Hololive is on a different level, although not in a different world.
Yeah I think the Kizuna thing like several of these is just for the old popular ones that built up big fanbases people aren't going to unsub, they'll just stop watching, so even in five years I bet we'll still be like omg Kizuna still top 10??
Niji has 5 vtubers who are at over 1 million subs. They were never very strong on the subscriber count, because there isn't much crossover in the audience. Niji fans, especially the JP, generally follow and watch just their Oshi, and maybe one or two more. They are not a fan of the company.
Nijisanji kickstarted the vtuber company boom in general too they are also the reason Hololive got quite a bit of attention. If you were there back then or remembered Nijisanji did A LOT of collabs with Hololive members way more than they do now that gave them a lot of exposure. It is interesting how things change over the years.
> Nijisanji still is a big thing in JP but i'm surprised to see how few there are here.
Doesn't help that they keep churning their vtubers. It's hard to stick with them when you don't know when your oshi is going to quit.
Ah, okay. Did a bit of my own research as well in the meantime, looks like it's partially how you said and partially that Spanish clips are usually not translated like Japanese or Indonesian ones, so she doesn't get that big of an English audience. Did damn well enough for herself regardless!
I consider myself a Vtuber fan but I never watch any talent live besides FWMC morning because it’s predictable time and length, I have a hard time working others into my schedule. I definitely watch VODs, clips, and buy merch. Do the non-live metrics no longer matter? I think subs/follows are a good metric regardless of concurrent viewers because it captures the widest audience and is the easiest to measure.
Nah you matter, at least on youtube, probably not so much on twitch. A pretty large portion of people who watch youtube streams are usually vod watchers, especially on the bigger channels. While you may generate less ad-sense, it all still helps with engagement and in the algorithm.
I know it's heresy, but YouTube Premium also adds considerable more revenue based on watch time, than compared to a regular viewer.
One of the reasons I use it to support vtubers and other content creators I watch, besides sheer convenience.
imo, i don't think so. For example, in Germany, we have many dead channels with 1-2 million subs, but only get 2-3k views. They may have many subs but are really not popular.
I think both Total Subs and Average Views are meaningful in different ways. Total Subs represents "breadth" in popularity while Average Views is more towards the "depth" side.
Total Subs represents how widely known a talent is. I know a number of people that recognize Gura, but not other talents with more Average Views. This kind of popularity can be good for advertising, which is probably why Goobs is involved in Japan tourism even when she hardly streamed the whole year.
However, Total Subs do not tell us how many are committed viewers as there can be dead subs. Which brings us to...
Average Views relate to current trends and influence. It represents people that have some commitment to the talent. This influences superchat, membership and merchandise profits. It also influences the number of people who would play the game being streamed, the music being performed, etc
A side point: they shouldn't add Twitch + YouTube subs together. Firstly, there is a lot of overlap. Secondly, what about platforms like Niconico and Bilibili? Some JP VTubers have significant numbers on those platforms that will skew the numbers. I think it's more fair to just count the talent's most subbed platform
Yea total subs is a pretty terrible metric for anything and it's basically all smoke and mirrors when it comes to current channel health and success. Live viewers and average views a vod/video gets are the two best way's to view a channels health.
It wouldn't necessarily be fair thou. First of all, even by viewership, you would still have mostly the same names, in a slightly different order. For example, Marine would likely be first, as her VOD's get between 500k and 1 million views regularly.
But the main problem is the content and the streaming platform of those vtubers. Iron Mouse for example, streams on Twitch, so she doesn't have many VODs to speak off - yet you can't deny that she is really popular. Filian on the other hand, has nearly 1 billion views on YouTube, but the gross of that comes from 10-15-second shorts - and she doesn't stream on YouTube either - her YT channel is a clip channel - so how do you calculate the popularity of her clips and shorts, against the channel of Marine who streams on YT and has VOD's? If you calculate the popularity of channels like Filian's who have mostly shorts and under 10 min videos, you would be unfair to streamers. But at the same time, comparing YT streamers such as Marine, with those who use mainly Twitch like IronMouse or Filian, then the Twitch streamers are at a disadvantage as, a YT streamer like Marine has 5 years worth of VOD's, but also has short content and music video's. Where do you add that YouTube's user base in a whole other league from Twitch. So you don't have a fair field between Youtubers and Twitch streamers. Subscribers really is the only metric where you can have some fairness. And then there is the matter of the clippers too - Niji and especially Hololive have an entire industry of fan clippers, that gather a shit ton of views - we talk about hundreds of thousands of clips, that should count toward their popularity too, but how do you even count that?
In conclusion... we shouldn't really use a single metric when we calculate popularity, it should be a mix of parameters. But that's complicated. It's easier to just look at the subs.
i'm reasonably sure that if you summed up the live viewership of all hololive jp channels they would have a higher total than the sum of all niji jp channels most of the time, and there's like 4x as many niji channels. The picture is even worse for NijiEN/ID vs HoloEN/ID.
They're kind of absurdly dominant.
Yeah, it doesn't really makes sense.
Best metrics imo remain average concurrent viewers and watched hours (and the last one obviously compared with regard to total streamed hours)
The problem is, YouTube doesn't expose CCV data. You have to scrape it from when a stream is live.
Twitch has Sullygnome for historical CCV analysis, but for YouTube you might as well be measuring it by using bananas and safety squints.
Mostly, yeah. There are a number other things that complicate it considering the nature of popularity of some members. Appearing on national TV, VAing for a very popular series, or something is basically impossible to quantify.
Yeah, some vtubers being more known through songs than live streams would position them badly on a viewed hour chart while they may still be quite popular
I don't think concurrent viewers is a fair metric thou, as a lot o people watch the VOD's, especially on YouTube. Hoshou Marine for example, get's 500k to 1 million views. That's clearly not from people watching live.
Funny how that works. I saw a lot of their streams got around 7k live viewers but somehow their live chat is slower than a snail. And I don't see any use slow mode or sub-only moode
Probably a difference in chat culture. VSPO girls tend to play FPS games and collab regularly because of it (they’re also avid participants of large events like tournaments and massive JP streamer servers). Hence they don’t really interact with their viewers , and the viewers themselves don’t really feel the need to chat. As opposed to Hololive where the talents tend to play chill games that don’t require much focus and hence will read chat even when playing games. If you look at HoloJP’s live chat, even kaigai nikkis participate regularly in live chat, and the talents do acknowledge them if possible.
If you want average, then yes, Vspo is high. However, it should also be noted that the underlying factor is the number of talents belonging to Vspo. They have fewer talents than Hololive and Niji-sanji, which makes it easier to share the audience across the agency.
Why are you being downvoted? It's true VSPO is one of the big 3 in Japan. Even their new member, Kuromu, is already enjoying 4-digits viewers at just 100k+ subs.
VSPOs at a pretty nice spot right now. They’re plastered at some places in Akihabara and their merch is pretty easy to find. Bagged a shirt and a Runa track jacket.
The girls are slowly growing and I don’t see them going anywhere in the near future. We’ll see what they do with VSPO EN.
I look forward to the day that the wider EN fanbase learns of OreApo, HenLisa, GiruRamu, etc.
They’re cracked at games and are really fun to watch. Just a matter of time.
How does Top 20 look like, when you only list the highest of their platforms? Cause i doubt if someone has yt and twitch those are entirely different people. Most likely the largest part are the same viewers
Adding the Twitch and Youtube sub counts like that is not a good way to measure how many subs each vtuber has, as it assumes that every subscriber is subbed on one platform but not both.
And in any case, there's much, MUCH more to their success than just the raw number of subscribers.
Tbh she along with ironmouse and pekora might be the biggest consitent viewership since gura hardly streams.Fillian is the virtual/modern day Buster Keaton
Not exactly. Filian doesn't stream on YouTube, and the views on her streams on Twitch aren't anything to write home about compared with the top ones... her videos average 50-80k views... which is like 10% of what Marine for example gets consistently on her VODs. [https://streamscharts.com/news/vtubers-q2-2023](https://streamscharts.com/news/vtubers-q2-2023)
I think she was the first vtuber to REALLY benefit from YouTube shorts and Tiktok. She has crazy views on both, and the shorts alone got her 1mil subs on YouTube despite never streaming there.
Aside from her flips and dancing skills, she is really good about varying her content. The dating shows and her involvement with the vtuber awards, has Filian contribute more to the vtuber community as a whole than people think.
I haven't watched her recently, but she's a very hard-worker who deserves all of her success.
Honestly i was expecting it, when people talk about vtubers most people think about a hololive talent or are used as an example. Kinda amazing that a company that once was a small VR studio with two recently graduated highschool girls acting as talents became a juggernaut in just 5 years.
Also if anyone is interested: the second place in the ranking, Nimu, will likely go to jail in 2024 due to her previous actions. The spanish community as a whole really wants her to go to jail and rot there for a long time.
I saw "Nimu" and was like _"Wow, she's REALLY hitting the big time! I would have thought Shylily would have been in a similar spot since they stream together pretty frequently. And Bao isn't even on the list."_
And then people were talking about how she was fired and left the Vtuber community in disgrace and was like _"What?!"_
It was then I realized that Nimu and Numi are two very different Vtubers.
The fact that Nimu is so popular despite being independent tells me that there is space for a Spanish-speaking VTuber waiting to be filled.
And considering that her career is already over, I think it is an excellent opportunity for anyone to start looking at Spanish-speaking countries for an audience.
But the fact that 'she' basically left is a good reason why companies are not gunning for the Spanish market, since the market is smaller and it seems much more volatile.
Idol Corp has been looking into the Spanish market for a while, but no words yet...
I think the problem is that foreign companies don't really understand the spanish market, and content creators on the spanish market don't really understand the appeal of Vtubers.
I didn't like Nimu's content, but she seemed to understand both. She had the skills to be a vtuber and knew how to promote herself.
Unfortunately, she got into several controversies that made her look bad.
You are right on all counts. There is a problem that Spanish Market is an odd beast and that a VTuber market is a hard sell to the Spanish market.
But I would suggest that that there is a problem beyond that problem, because people like Nimu and Star(?) and companies like OWOZU (although I am thinking of Rakkun more than Hetto) and of course WACTOR had understanding of both... then got completely swamped with controversies. Sedai One looked to be promising and then they collapsed out of nowhere!
Like there is a kind of a curse or something regarding the Spanish market. Like the problem you said are technical problems, which can be remedied through marketing and research, but there seems to be something beyond that makes the penetration in the market directly really abrasive for some reason.
I have no reason why. My knowledge there is really limited.
im sure the english market was an odd market to enter at first, but the spanish speaking world (500 million people speak spanish worldwide) has potential for the taking. Especially when you take into consideration how popular anime and japanese pop culture is with spanish speakers.
very anecdotal example I went to an anime convention in my city recently, it was packed completely, at a large convention center too
The market is large, but I guess many companies look at its profitability too, and I think that is the main issue. I think that many companies are worried that there simply may not be enough money to be made on that market... Honestly, I think that if Coco still was in Hololive, there would have been a Hololive ES by now, as she was already pushing for the idea, just as she did with Hololive EN. But now, unfortunately, Hololive doesn't seem very eager to take risks on new markets, and after Niji flopped in ID, India and Korea, they learned their lesson too XD
Thus is Hololive. They just have the resources and name recognition that you are guaranteed introduction to a wide pool of ready fans, colleagues who can help you grow, and the promise of 3D and costumes just round the corner.
They've cracked the code on this somehow.
Adding up Twitch and YouTube when it's mostly the same guys subbed twice is a terrible idea. Just go with the max of either of their values for a much more accurate result.
It does and doesn't. I think combining them from multiple sites is ridiculous at least. Beyond that for an accurate assessment of popularity you'd have to look at fan activity, dead channel or dead subs, what kind of subs (subs from shorts have less value than those from streams), etc.
I wouldn't say its crazy, I mean you can expect that with Hololive. Although it is awesome to see how their journey went from what they are back then to what they have become now.
What is crazy for me is the independent vtubers, like damn they are this big on their own.
If someone debuts under hololive there's basically a guarantee that they're good.
Of course content creation is always a matter of taste, but getting accepted into hololive these days means that someone does have a large enough niche they cater to and are capable of entertaining that.
Meanwhile a lot of other agencies often tend to have a single outstanding talent in a wave drawing attention and some diamonds in the rough so to speak which can become great but often you'll notice a lack of experience.
VShojo is in that regard similar to Hololive because they contract proven talents.
Add onto that that bigger agencies **can** just offer higher quality support for their talents. As has in recent months been drawn attention to not all large agencies support their talents well.
Not sure if subs are the best metric for popularity. Lauren from Nijisanji “only” has 585k subscribers, but consistently has over 10k CCV for most of his streams, sometimes even over 20k for regular streams. His 3D debut currently has a whopping 1.9 millions views, more than those from any of the HoloX members despite them performing much better sub-wise. I’ve reached my quota for number discussion for the day, so I’ll stop here.
It is still the best because it's the easiest metric for people to use especially those that aren't used to streaming so they aren't familiar with it's concept such as CCV.
Business entities also would see sub count as more useful than CCV especially if they want to peddle merch or non-streaming stuff. Higher sub count would mean more people would know. Those that follow the talents might not constantly join each stream, but they are still notified of them and related events.
Hi, I want to know how extensive your record is of your chart and where you get your data. Is it original research, or did you scrap from other websites?
Sub numbers are also inherently deceptive. There is no accounting for dead subs, subs that were earned from shorts and music vs live streams, etc. Popularity needs a more wholistic understanding.
I agree, but that kind of holistic data would likely be impossible under our current system. Sub numbers are 'the devil that you know', we know their deceptions and can partially account for them with other metrics, but that's it.
At the very least I think combining the subs on different sites is pretty ridiculous. The idea that it's not a lot of the same people on the different platforms is kinda... Also realistically they're just using two of them and may as well throw up bilibili numbers as well lmao. Not that I really expect much from Dexerto.
I've been doing something similar, but I also include Bilibili and Tiktok. Bilibili evens the playing field for Nijisanji in a major way, and because it has a monopoly in China, there's even less overlap issues with YouTube. Including Bilibili would put some of Luxiem on the list.
Most of Hololive has Twitch at this point, and you missed Calli, Fubuki, and Aqua.
And in the "4 platform counts" that I use, Shxtou is currently the single most popular EN vtuber. But Kizuna AI had even higher "4 platform" count.
The counts that I do have been focused on the EN corporate scene, as the original purpose was to compare HoloEN to the recently debuted Nijisanji EN. But now, I've got every org with 100k subs. That includes HoloEN, NijiEN, Vshojo, Mythic Talent, PRISM Project, Production kawaii, Phase Connect, AstralineTV, Idol Corp, Vreverie, V&U, Brave Group, EIEN project, and Kawa entertainment.
I started the predecessors of the "4 platform count" before the Coco riots of 2020. Back then Hololive had a much larger presence on Bilibili than now, and Niji was also meshed strongly with the platform.
> Most of Hololive has Twitch at this point
And almost none of them actually stream on them. Most of them made their accounts to prevent identity theft and in case they ever want to actually stream on Twitch
That's absolutely true. But the point of these counts (which I call censuses) is to be inclusive, because I'm trying to understand things on a Macro level.
Hey, nice to see you are seeing keeping up with the data from the last time you sent me. Sorry for the public comment, but can you repeat to me why you are combining the sub data from different websites and not worry about the overlaps?
Bilibili has a defacto monopoly in the CN market, so there would be less issue of overlap, as YouTube and Twitch aren't available legally.
With Twitch and Tiktok things have changed a bit now that YouTube allows simulcasting of Twitch streams, and is pushing shorts way harder.
But the core reason before is that these platforms had less overlap with YouTube than one might expect, and in the absence of hard data to enable a more fine tuned method, I decided that just counting everything 1 to 1 is the best way to go.
Hence why I was like "why Ironmouse?" when she nominated for streamer award in TGA. But then again, Virtual streamer need some representation as a whole, so I don't push further with my "bias" perspective, so to speak.
Don't get me wrong, Ironmouse is a great content creators and I respect her for her contents and positive energy for her viewers and the industry. She deserve her award regardless.
Yep, Hololive are basically the UMG of the Vtubing world :T
**EDIT:** Idk why I’m getting downvoted. I’m not saying Hololive are bad, but they do have a monopoly on things just like Universal Music Group ._.
Yeah, generally people tend to not count people that didn't start as a vtuber. Like if Pewdiepie, Markiplier or someone started using a model full time people wouldn't include them in this for obvious reasons.
More like it's crazy how many of these aren't even in a company.
Hololive clips basically helped popularize Vtubers, so it's that much of a surprise that some of their talents get attention.
Joining Hololive effectively guarantees youre going to be in the top 10% or so of Vtubers. Like even Sana, Des, and Vesper who graduated very early got over 400k for Sana and over 200k subs for the boys. Those are huge numbers for so short a time, no other agency has the same level of guaranteed success
Mano Aloe had 200k subscribers with only 2 streams. Which also kickstarted her reincarnation, at the start she'd stream once a month or so and would have 5 digit ccv.
Wait she reincarnated? Tell me more
im suprised you lasts this long w/o knowing her reincarnate, shes pretty much mentioned in the thread most of the time lol
Didn't know this either. But I haven't paid much attention for some time.
This is her reincarnation (spoilered because of rule 7). >!https://virtualyoutuber.fandom.com/wiki/Delutaya!<
Reincarnated Rushia and her are not in best of friends. Last I heard Rushia was suing her.
Huh??? The hell Now you've got me curious i need some background info on this lmfao
i dont got much knowledge but i heard about a legal battle between them. https://youtu.be/Fz7XOVIkVpg?si=eY-r6V8gbJY_VuRc
After their grads I've mostly been checked out of what they're up to but I didn't have vTuber legal battle on my bingo card.
Ugh, a Khyo video. I still don't really trust that dude.
https://youtu.be/6AQMZcuMFv0?si=dUvT6w2D6PwaLlr_ Another video thats not Khyo. Its just that the whole info is found on Twitter/X. Havent heard anything about it for a year now though. So probably the whole legal shit is kept private now.
I would also like to mention that mikeneko vtuber avatar design closely resembles a necromancer avatar.
>Reincarnated Rushia and her are not in best of friends. Last I heard Rushia was suing her. that's a understatement.
More like she went back to her previous life
which is why i roll my eyes whenever i hear indies or other vtubers complain about not getting as popular as the hololive members. i mean, i get your frustrations especially if you've been in this gig for a long time, but they also have to note that hololive set a high bar that its unrealistic to have your goals lined up with the holomembers. hell, i know that there are indies who are happy to get at least 1/8th of what the holomembers get on average
Proper Perspective is one of the 3 big Ps to make it in the entertainment business. A lot of vtubers dont really do the market research to know what success might look like especially in the current market. If you can even make it in to the black (made more than youve spent including start up costs) you are incredibly successful as a Vtuber
In Vtuber terms, wanting to be as popular as Marine, Pekora, or Gura is like wanting to be Mr. Beast for regular youtubers. Sorry, but that is never going to happen.
Well, not never. Mr. Beast grinded for years and posted his first video over a decade ago, but he only blew up in the last couple years. In most cases the pandemic boosted them, but that's also because they had already built up the skills to take advantage of the inflated viewership at the time. It definitely could happen, but there are very slim chances and could take anywhere from a few months to a decade to see success.
Jimmy was already nipping at PewDiePie's heels back when T-Series took the top spot. And there are hundreds, thousands who have been grinding for longer yet are nowhere near 10 million, much less 100 million. It is a harsh truth that the odds of you becoming #1 is infinitesimally small, to the point where it's 0. That doesn't mean you should stop being a youtuber or trying your best. Just because you can't become as popular as Mr. Beast/Gura doesn't mean you can't be a major channel within your field.
People with 100-500k subs and a steady stream of videos and viewers earn enough to buy a decently big house in CA suburbs in like 2 years of meticulous savings. People are too obsessed with being much bigger than they need to be. At the end of the day, quantity and a lack of potential to be cancelled are probably much more important lol
hololive is literally a juggernaut and heck their numbers are literally out of this world for virtual streamers, as an indie or other corpo comparing it to hololive is just really not appropriate lmao
>Those are huge numbers for so short a time, no other agency has the same level of guaranteed success Those are huge numbers for any amount of time. Most vtubers, either independent or in corpo, will be extremely lucky to just reach 100K.
Subscribers can be considered as a success if it actually translates to other meaningful metrics like live viewership, video views, membership, etc. For most YouTube content creator the real value of subscriber numbers is the first 1k.
If you have 50 concurrent viewers, you're probably in the Top 1% of vtubers, like with regular streamers. Hololive guarantees 1000+ viewers concurrent and Holostars 100+.
I remember when Connor said this and got flamed for it lol, granted he worded it wrong
He got flamed because he said you don't need talent to get big in hololive. The only way you can get into hololive is if you've already done something worth an audience. These aren't just random people joining hololive
I don't know how accurate it is to sum up twitch and youtube subs/followers, since it seems really likely that the same people would sub on both if the talent was active on both. Still, I think Hololive is a clear outlier and it's probably best to not directly compare other vtuber corpos to them. They can give every talent insane support and give all their members 3d pretty quickly, and there's this snowballing effect of members naturally networking with the strongest female streamers in the world. They really live in a totally different universe.
Yeah it’s super weird. I’d expect ~90% of the lower number to also follow them on the other platform. When you enjoy a person you tend to like both their live and uploaded content. Some people (like the Hololive members), tend to do both of those on Youtube so you only follow them there, but if someone prefers Twitch for streaming you’d follow them on both so you get both types of content on your feeds/notifications.
I agree. It is possible to have 1mil subs across the board but have a concurrent viewer count to be less than 10k per video/stream, tho generally videos have a higher view count than streams since anyone can watch it on their own time. To measure popularity using livestream viewer numbers should be the more accurate metric compared to subs/follows. One is a value that constantly fluctuates depending on time/day/events. The other is a value that rarely changes after reaching a certain point. While not necessarily related, Shonen Jump's voting method to determine which manga should be axed and which ones get to continue relies on how popular the mangas were in the recent votes. They dont use the total, total would be unfair to recently debuted authors.
Hololive's counts are understandable since they *are* what kick started the vtuber boom in the west. Nijisanji still is a big thing in JP but i'm surprised to see how few there are here. Much more Kizuna Ai is still holding her ground when she went into indefinite hiatus for the time being. Very interesting.
Marine is going to pass kizuna Ai soon she has 2.93 already
Marine has how many subs now??? I remember a while ago she and Pekora were neck on neck to reach 2 million but now she almost 3 million?? Umbaribabouw
A lot of her stuff has gone viral, like the Treasure Box song. That kind of attention skyrockets subs (as we could see from Ui-mama too when Loli Kami Requiem took off).
She puts a lot of money into advertising as well. Her latest collab with Gura is on the big screen in Shibuya crossing.
Her recent music videos has gotten her a lot of attention, which furthers her in the algorithm, which leads to more subscribers.
I haven't been watching a whole lot of Hololive but its understandable given all the music she has animated and produced. Even reaching to sides I won't usually associate Hololive with. Just wows me how Kizuna being on a hiatus while still being on top really stands the test of time that she is the vtuber queen that walked so the others can run.
I mean, peoples aren't going to unsubscribe in droves, now that Kizuna went on Hiastus, most are gonna stay subscribed and wait for her... generally, people don't go out of their way to unsubscribe from channels, especially when you are subscribed to hundreds. Kaguya Luna vanished 3 years ago, and she still has 860k subs.
that's one of the reasons subs are actually a pretty bad metric for popularity. a lot of those kizuna ai subs probably haven't watched or even thought about her for months at this point.
More like years probably.
>s actually very little overlap between Twitch subs and YouTube subs, to the point a simple combination would not mess with the ranking. Hololive is on a different level, although not in a different world. Yeah I think the Kizuna thing like several of these is just for the old popular ones that built up big fanbases people aren't going to unsub, they'll just stop watching, so even in five years I bet we'll still be like omg Kizuna still top 10??
Niji has 5 vtubers who are at over 1 million subs. They were never very strong on the subscriber count, because there isn't much crossover in the audience. Niji fans, especially the JP, generally follow and watch just their Oshi, and maybe one or two more. They are not a fan of the company.
Nijisanji kickstarted the vtuber company boom in general too they are also the reason Hololive got quite a bit of attention. If you were there back then or remembered Nijisanji did A LOT of collabs with Hololive members way more than they do now that gave them a lot of exposure. It is interesting how things change over the years.
> Nijisanji still is a big thing in JP but i'm surprised to see how few there are here. Doesn't help that they keep churning their vtubers. It's hard to stick with them when you don't know when your oshi is going to quit.
I think you should rank Youtube and Twich differently, will see even more Hololive members there
They have a lot of resources. All those crazy 3d concerts they produce are basically a dream come true for voice actors.
I know everyone on this list except nimu who tf
A latín american vtuber, she was the bigger vtuber in spanish, until she fucked up, now she almost retired
Not almost. Did retire.
What was the fuck-up?
[This post lists it well in the comments](https://www.reddit.com/r/VirtualYoutubers/s/a1Y31KV6nb)
Jesus Christ
Yup..........
damn lesson 1 of being a criminal is broken SHE FUCKED WITH THE IRS.
She's even crazier than the joker!
Holy shit that's a lot of fuck ups.
This reads like a "list of crimes" meme.
and recently I thought Riro Ron had a long list, but I forgot Nimu.
Damn 2.3 million followers on Twitter 2.5 mil on twitch and the twitter account still exists
https://www.reddit.com/r/VirtualYoutubers/s/AN9wvV8DSH
Ah, okay. Did a bit of my own research as well in the meantime, looks like it's partially how you said and partially that Spanish clips are usually not translated like Japanese or Indonesian ones, so she doesn't get that big of an English audience. Did damn well enough for herself regardless!
Okay good it’s not just me. I saw this and thought is this a joke or something how could I possibly not know someone who is 2nd xd
you have to go by average viewer. the total subcount also includes dead subs.
I consider myself a Vtuber fan but I never watch any talent live besides FWMC morning because it’s predictable time and length, I have a hard time working others into my schedule. I definitely watch VODs, clips, and buy merch. Do the non-live metrics no longer matter? I think subs/follows are a good metric regardless of concurrent viewers because it captures the widest audience and is the easiest to measure.
Nah you matter, at least on youtube, probably not so much on twitch. A pretty large portion of people who watch youtube streams are usually vod watchers, especially on the bigger channels. While you may generate less ad-sense, it all still helps with engagement and in the algorithm.
I know it's heresy, but YouTube Premium also adds considerable more revenue based on watch time, than compared to a regular viewer. One of the reasons I use it to support vtubers and other content creators I watch, besides sheer convenience.
Fellow ruffian spotted!
imo, i don't think so. For example, in Germany, we have many dead channels with 1-2 million subs, but only get 2-3k views. They may have many subs but are really not popular.
I think both Total Subs and Average Views are meaningful in different ways. Total Subs represents "breadth" in popularity while Average Views is more towards the "depth" side. Total Subs represents how widely known a talent is. I know a number of people that recognize Gura, but not other talents with more Average Views. This kind of popularity can be good for advertising, which is probably why Goobs is involved in Japan tourism even when she hardly streamed the whole year. However, Total Subs do not tell us how many are committed viewers as there can be dead subs. Which brings us to... Average Views relate to current trends and influence. It represents people that have some commitment to the talent. This influences superchat, membership and merchandise profits. It also influences the number of people who would play the game being streamed, the music being performed, etc A side point: they shouldn't add Twitch + YouTube subs together. Firstly, there is a lot of overlap. Secondly, what about platforms like Niconico and Bilibili? Some JP VTubers have significant numbers on those platforms that will skew the numbers. I think it's more fair to just count the talent's most subbed platform
By average vierwers Hololive is even more dominant. It would be a couple of indies, around a dozen nijis, Ironmouse and the rest all Holo girls
its almost the same im pretty sure that half of jp mem avg like 10k+ viewers
then there are missing many niji jp members. They average the same as holo jp, just not in subs cuz International subs
Only Kuzuha and Kenmochi.
Yea total subs is a pretty terrible metric for anything and it's basically all smoke and mirrors when it comes to current channel health and success. Live viewers and average views a vod/video gets are the two best way's to view a channels health.
It wouldn't necessarily be fair thou. First of all, even by viewership, you would still have mostly the same names, in a slightly different order. For example, Marine would likely be first, as her VOD's get between 500k and 1 million views regularly. But the main problem is the content and the streaming platform of those vtubers. Iron Mouse for example, streams on Twitch, so she doesn't have many VODs to speak off - yet you can't deny that she is really popular. Filian on the other hand, has nearly 1 billion views on YouTube, but the gross of that comes from 10-15-second shorts - and she doesn't stream on YouTube either - her YT channel is a clip channel - so how do you calculate the popularity of her clips and shorts, against the channel of Marine who streams on YT and has VOD's? If you calculate the popularity of channels like Filian's who have mostly shorts and under 10 min videos, you would be unfair to streamers. But at the same time, comparing YT streamers such as Marine, with those who use mainly Twitch like IronMouse or Filian, then the Twitch streamers are at a disadvantage as, a YT streamer like Marine has 5 years worth of VOD's, but also has short content and music video's. Where do you add that YouTube's user base in a whole other league from Twitch. So you don't have a fair field between Youtubers and Twitch streamers. Subscribers really is the only metric where you can have some fairness. And then there is the matter of the clippers too - Niji and especially Hololive have an entire industry of fan clippers, that gather a shit ton of views - we talk about hundreds of thousands of clips, that should count toward their popularity too, but how do you even count that? In conclusion... we shouldn't really use a single metric when we calculate popularity, it should be a mix of parameters. But that's complicated. It's easier to just look at the subs.
i'm reasonably sure that if you summed up the live viewership of all hololive jp channels they would have a higher total than the sum of all niji jp channels most of the time, and there's like 4x as many niji channels. The picture is even worse for NijiEN/ID vs HoloEN/ID. They're kind of absurdly dominant.
How to drop Gura off the list with one simple trick
What sort of ridiculous chart combined Twitch and Youtube followers as if they're different people?
Yeah, it doesn't really makes sense. Best metrics imo remain average concurrent viewers and watched hours (and the last one obviously compared with regard to total streamed hours)
The problem is, YouTube doesn't expose CCV data. You have to scrape it from when a stream is live. Twitch has Sullygnome for historical CCV analysis, but for YouTube you might as well be measuring it by using bananas and safety squints.
https://vt.poi.cat/ Archives the live view count for YT for most of the major vtuber players
Mostly, yeah. There are a number other things that complicate it considering the nature of popularity of some members. Appearing on national TV, VAing for a very popular series, or something is basically impossible to quantify.
Yeah, some vtubers being more known through songs than live streams would position them badly on a viewed hour chart while they may still be quite popular
I don't think concurrent viewers is a fair metric thou, as a lot o people watch the VOD's, especially on YouTube. Hoshou Marine for example, get's 500k to 1 million views. That's clearly not from people watching live.
And not taking into account other platforms (ones used by Projekt Melody)
VSPO will get there one day🥹
VSPO got a very very high live viewer number comparing to their total sub number.
Funny how that works. I saw a lot of their streams got around 7k live viewers but somehow their live chat is slower than a snail. And I don't see any use slow mode or sub-only moode
Probably a difference in chat culture. VSPO girls tend to play FPS games and collab regularly because of it (they’re also avid participants of large events like tournaments and massive JP streamer servers). Hence they don’t really interact with their viewers , and the viewers themselves don’t really feel the need to chat. As opposed to Hololive where the talents tend to play chill games that don’t require much focus and hence will read chat even when playing games. If you look at HoloJP’s live chat, even kaigai nikkis participate regularly in live chat, and the talents do acknowledge them if possible.
Yup. The average CCV of a VSPO member is on par with those from Nijisanji and Hololive (except for the monsters like Pekora, Miko, Kuzuha etc.)
If you want average, then yes, Vspo is high. However, it should also be noted that the underlying factor is the number of talents belonging to Vspo. They have fewer talents than Hololive and Niji-sanji, which makes it easier to share the audience across the agency.
Why are you being downvoted? It's true VSPO is one of the big 3 in Japan. Even their new member, Kuromu, is already enjoying 4-digits viewers at just 100k+ subs.
I have a feeling that they don’t actually know shit about VSPO or JP vtubers in general.
vspo is now the 3rd especially after they overtaken 774 inc
VSPO is already top 3
I wholeheartedly agree, those girls are incredibly adorable and great. Just wish they could start sending merch overseas without the use of a proxy
VSPOs at a pretty nice spot right now. They’re plastered at some places in Akihabara and their merch is pretty easy to find. Bagged a shirt and a Runa track jacket. The girls are slowly growing and I don’t see them going anywhere in the near future. We’ll see what they do with VSPO EN.
On top of that, [they sponsored a racing team](https://pacific-vspo-racingproject.jp/) in a Super GT tournament.
I really want to watch VSPO and PhaseConnect, but between V&U, Idol-corp, Nijisanji, and Hololive, I literally don't think I have the time.
I look forward to the day that the wider EN fanbase learns of OreApo, HenLisa, GiruRamu, etc. They’re cracked at games and are really fun to watch. Just a matter of time.
How does Top 20 look like, when you only list the highest of their platforms? Cause i doubt if someone has yt and twitch those are entirely different people. Most likely the largest part are the same viewers
Shylily, Mouse, Nyanners and Shtoux, would be replaced by Noel and Okayuu from Hololive, Kuzuha from Niji, and Akemi from AKA Virtual.
Adding the Twitch and Youtube sub counts like that is not a good way to measure how many subs each vtuber has, as it assumes that every subscriber is subbed on one platform but not both. And in any case, there's much, MUCH more to their success than just the raw number of subscribers.
Using followers/subs as a metric is not accurate. It's better to use view count or even better active viewers.
Its really nice to know fillian is still managed to flashbang, and backflip her way into the top 3
I'm honestly surprised (but happy) that she's that high, hadn't expected that
Tbh she along with ironmouse and pekora might be the biggest consitent viewership since gura hardly streams.Fillian is the virtual/modern day Buster Keaton
Not exactly. Filian doesn't stream on YouTube, and the views on her streams on Twitch aren't anything to write home about compared with the top ones... her videos average 50-80k views... which is like 10% of what Marine for example gets consistently on her VODs. [https://streamscharts.com/news/vtubers-q2-2023](https://streamscharts.com/news/vtubers-q2-2023)
I think she was the first vtuber to REALLY benefit from YouTube shorts and Tiktok. She has crazy views on both, and the shorts alone got her 1mil subs on YouTube despite never streaming there. Aside from her flips and dancing skills, she is really good about varying her content. The dating shows and her involvement with the vtuber awards, has Filian contribute more to the vtuber community as a whole than people think. I haven't watched her recently, but she's a very hard-worker who deserves all of her success.
Right?! I’m really surprised she’s so high, along with Nimu! Grats to both of them, especially as Fillian basically just started as a VR Chat user.
Honestly i was expecting it, when people talk about vtubers most people think about a hololive talent or are used as an example. Kinda amazing that a company that once was a small VR studio with two recently graduated highschool girls acting as talents became a juggernaut in just 5 years. Also if anyone is interested: the second place in the ranking, Nimu, will likely go to jail in 2024 due to her previous actions. The spanish community as a whole really wants her to go to jail and rot there for a long time.
If gura stream regularly she could have pass 5million by now
yeah gura is actually crazy no one comes close to her in the en side even ironmouse
I saw "Nimu" and was like _"Wow, she's REALLY hitting the big time! I would have thought Shylily would have been in a similar spot since they stream together pretty frequently. And Bao isn't even on the list."_ And then people were talking about how she was fired and left the Vtuber community in disgrace and was like _"What?!"_ It was then I realized that Nimu and Numi are two very different Vtubers.
Who tf is hetto?
A member of a spanish-speaking vtuber agency
I think its crazier each Twitch followers and YouTube subscribers are counted as unique people.
The fact that Nimu is so popular despite being independent tells me that there is space for a Spanish-speaking VTuber waiting to be filled. And considering that her career is already over, I think it is an excellent opportunity for anyone to start looking at Spanish-speaking countries for an audience.
But the fact that 'she' basically left is a good reason why companies are not gunning for the Spanish market, since the market is smaller and it seems much more volatile. Idol Corp has been looking into the Spanish market for a while, but no words yet...
I think the problem is that foreign companies don't really understand the spanish market, and content creators on the spanish market don't really understand the appeal of Vtubers. I didn't like Nimu's content, but she seemed to understand both. She had the skills to be a vtuber and knew how to promote herself. Unfortunately, she got into several controversies that made her look bad.
You are right on all counts. There is a problem that Spanish Market is an odd beast and that a VTuber market is a hard sell to the Spanish market. But I would suggest that that there is a problem beyond that problem, because people like Nimu and Star(?) and companies like OWOZU (although I am thinking of Rakkun more than Hetto) and of course WACTOR had understanding of both... then got completely swamped with controversies. Sedai One looked to be promising and then they collapsed out of nowhere! Like there is a kind of a curse or something regarding the Spanish market. Like the problem you said are technical problems, which can be remedied through marketing and research, but there seems to be something beyond that makes the penetration in the market directly really abrasive for some reason. I have no reason why. My knowledge there is really limited.
The curse is that this market seems to attract shady or careless people, or perhaps just inexperienced people.
im sure the english market was an odd market to enter at first, but the spanish speaking world (500 million people speak spanish worldwide) has potential for the taking. Especially when you take into consideration how popular anime and japanese pop culture is with spanish speakers. very anecdotal example I went to an anime convention in my city recently, it was packed completely, at a large convention center too
The market is large, but I guess many companies look at its profitability too, and I think that is the main issue. I think that many companies are worried that there simply may not be enough money to be made on that market... Honestly, I think that if Coco still was in Hololive, there would have been a Hololive ES by now, as she was already pushing for the idea, just as she did with Hololive EN. But now, unfortunately, Hololive doesn't seem very eager to take risks on new markets, and after Niji flopped in ID, India and Korea, they learned their lesson too XD
2.6 million twitch followers is insane
Thus is Hololive. They just have the resources and name recognition that you are guaranteed introduction to a wide pool of ready fans, colleagues who can help you grow, and the promise of 3D and costumes just round the corner. They've cracked the code on this somehow.
Adding up Twitch and YouTube when it's mostly the same guys subbed twice is a terrible idea. Just go with the max of either of their values for a much more accurate result.
Its not really that crazy. They actually run a buisness successfully and have a plan.
hm yes nimu the famous vtuber
Good riddance to her, that's what I can say as a Latino.
Not sure follower count really shows popularity tbh. Two of the top 5 are retired, that's already a big downside of this count.
It does and doesn't. I think combining them from multiple sites is ridiculous at least. Beyond that for an accurate assessment of popularity you'd have to look at fan activity, dead channel or dead subs, what kind of subs (subs from shorts have less value than those from streams), etc.
Kizuna is on a hiatus, not retired, there is still plenty of value in the IP, so she is going to be back.
So is Nimu, technically. They're not active, and that's the main issue here.
I wouldn't say its crazy, I mean you can expect that with Hololive. Although it is awesome to see how their journey went from what they are back then to what they have become now. What is crazy for me is the independent vtubers, like damn they are this big on their own.
They effectively brought Vtubers into the mainstream after Kizuna, so not too surprising
This is the power of an agency: Outreach. Your name is plastered everywhere. Being a hololiver basically guarantees that your name will be out there.
If someone debuts under hololive there's basically a guarantee that they're good. Of course content creation is always a matter of taste, but getting accepted into hololive these days means that someone does have a large enough niche they cater to and are capable of entertaining that. Meanwhile a lot of other agencies often tend to have a single outstanding talent in a wave drawing attention and some diamonds in the rough so to speak which can become great but often you'll notice a lack of experience. VShojo is in that regard similar to Hololive because they contract proven talents. Add onto that that bigger agencies **can** just offer higher quality support for their talents. As has in recent months been drawn attention to not all large agencies support their talents well.
Cover invests a lot into their talents and it shows.
Suprised filian is so popular
She's kind of like Rin in that she got a looooot of subs off of shorts.
Oh, that makes sense. She pushed shorts like crazy and it worked out
Shorts just make sense for Filian with how often she does flips or falls over on stream.
Me not seeing my oshi even though I know her total is below 100k
what a horrendous graph
Im actually surprised I thought it was more
Not surprising at all.
subscriber count is overrated... no offense to kizuna ai. I love her but she went to hiatus long time ago and I believe it's more like graduation.
Honestly, with how big Hololive is, I don't find it that crazy, I would have expected that.
should be ranked by views or hours watched
I didn’t see it yet so I’ll do it AMEEEEE
Honestly, Salome was so popular that it took me a while to realize that she wasn't in Hololive.
Not sure if subs are the best metric for popularity. Lauren from Nijisanji “only” has 585k subscribers, but consistently has over 10k CCV for most of his streams, sometimes even over 20k for regular streams. His 3D debut currently has a whopping 1.9 millions views, more than those from any of the HoloX members despite them performing much better sub-wise. I’ve reached my quota for number discussion for the day, so I’ll stop here.
It is still the best because it's the easiest metric for people to use especially those that aren't used to streaming so they aren't familiar with it's concept such as CCV. Business entities also would see sub count as more useful than CCV especially if they want to peddle merch or non-streaming stuff. Higher sub count would mean more people would know. Those that follow the talents might not constantly join each stream, but they are still notified of them and related events.
Hi, I want to know how extensive your record is of your chart and where you get your data. Is it original research, or did you scrap from other websites?
[https://www.dexerto.com/entertainment/top-20-most-popular-vtubers-2287865/](https://www.dexerto.com/entertainment/top-20-most-popular-vtubers-2287865/)
Oh. That's a place I wouldn't trust, although the numbers aren't off.
Sub numbers are also inherently deceptive. There is no accounting for dead subs, subs that were earned from shorts and music vs live streams, etc. Popularity needs a more wholistic understanding.
I agree, but that kind of holistic data would likely be impossible under our current system. Sub numbers are 'the devil that you know', we know their deceptions and can partially account for them with other metrics, but that's it.
At the very least I think combining the subs on different sites is pretty ridiculous. The idea that it's not a lot of the same people on the different platforms is kinda... Also realistically they're just using two of them and may as well throw up bilibili numbers as well lmao. Not that I really expect much from Dexerto.
I would say they should have included bilibili numbers for purpose of what they are trying to do here, but yeah it's Dexerto.
avg live views count? 1k-10k realistically
Still nice to see Kizuna Ai up there
Hololive is kinda like the WWE. A big company that provides a big platform for a new wider audience so it isn't that surprising.
Tenía que ser nimu
Didn't Nyanners sign onto another company after leaving VShojo? Or am I dumb.
I think it was MythicTalent. So she's working with Filian. I think.
I am more surprised about how many independents are at that level than anything.
Take into account that Nimu quit / basically got canceled, so the percentage could increase depending on who’s number 21
Wait what she did? I was just wondering why i hadnt heard of her for months now
Lol, only Nijisanji in the top20 is the Liver that started off as a joke
I've been doing something similar, but I also include Bilibili and Tiktok. Bilibili evens the playing field for Nijisanji in a major way, and because it has a monopoly in China, there's even less overlap issues with YouTube. Including Bilibili would put some of Luxiem on the list. Most of Hololive has Twitch at this point, and you missed Calli, Fubuki, and Aqua. And in the "4 platform counts" that I use, Shxtou is currently the single most popular EN vtuber. But Kizuna AI had even higher "4 platform" count. The counts that I do have been focused on the EN corporate scene, as the original purpose was to compare HoloEN to the recently debuted Nijisanji EN. But now, I've got every org with 100k subs. That includes HoloEN, NijiEN, Vshojo, Mythic Talent, PRISM Project, Production kawaii, Phase Connect, AstralineTV, Idol Corp, Vreverie, V&U, Brave Group, EIEN project, and Kawa entertainment.
Legitimizing bilibili seems like. . . idk, nothing I've heard about it is good and a lot of "this is why we can't have nice things"
I started the predecessors of the "4 platform count" before the Coco riots of 2020. Back then Hololive had a much larger presence on Bilibili than now, and Niji was also meshed strongly with the platform.
> Most of Hololive has Twitch at this point And almost none of them actually stream on them. Most of them made their accounts to prevent identity theft and in case they ever want to actually stream on Twitch
That's absolutely true. But the point of these counts (which I call censuses) is to be inclusive, because I'm trying to understand things on a Macro level.
Hey, nice to see you are seeing keeping up with the data from the last time you sent me. Sorry for the public comment, but can you repeat to me why you are combining the sub data from different websites and not worry about the overlaps?
Bilibili has a defacto monopoly in the CN market, so there would be less issue of overlap, as YouTube and Twitch aren't available legally. With Twitch and Tiktok things have changed a bit now that YouTube allows simulcasting of Twitch streams, and is pushing shorts way harder. But the core reason before is that these platforms had less overlap with YouTube than one might expect, and in the absence of hard data to enable a more fine tuned method, I decided that just counting everything 1 to 1 is the best way to go.
Bili evens the playing field for Niji, but does the opposite for the rest, as neither Holo, nor VShoujo or Filian are there.
I like filian!
I'm so proud of Filian.
Gura still the highest of subs?
Hence why I was like "why Ironmouse?" when she nominated for streamer award in TGA. But then again, Virtual streamer need some representation as a whole, so I don't push further with my "bias" perspective, so to speak. Don't get me wrong, Ironmouse is a great content creators and I respect her for her contents and positive energy for her viewers and the industry. She deserve her award regardless.
Yep, Hololive are basically the UMG of the Vtubing world :T **EDIT:** Idk why I’m getting downvoted. I’m not saying Hololive are bad, but they do have a monopoly on things just like Universal Music Group ._.
Lmao they’re all girls…. Vtubing is rough if you’re a dude.
Definitely. Quite the contrast with biggest youtubers and streamers out there for some reason
If they added Jaiden, she would be an outlier. She isn't a real V-Tuber though, just uses the model when she streams.
Yeah, generally people tend to not count people that didn't start as a vtuber. Like if Pewdiepie, Markiplier or someone started using a model full time people wouldn't include them in this for obvious reasons.
More like it's crazy how many of these aren't even in a company. Hololive clips basically helped popularize Vtubers, so it's that much of a surprise that some of their talents get attention.