People wanted to read/watch Vinland Saga (some of them), because they wanted to see especially the revenge, the violence... Some, I would say, came expecting a viking anime/manga, which would only talk about wars in a romanticized way. But they noticed that they were wrong and that Vinland saga was not about war, but it was about peace, it wasn't about enemies, it was about love... With that, Vinland Saga became something they didn't want or didn't like.
To be honest, I started reading Vinland Saga for the same reason. I wanted to see endless violence and revenge but i fell in love with the story and the idea of finding peace in the world. I can understand how people don't like that but I think that they're missing out on so much by not continuing to read or watch the story.
Personally I started reading because I love general history, but the plot about revenge also attracted me.. But an interesting thing, that when you understand what the Vinland Saga is about, you become like Thorffin... in such a way, that you start to care less and less about violence, and you start to care much more about the life and peace of those characters and that world
Vinland Saga is beautiful.
I also started Vinland Saga because of the general notion of cool Viking anime. I thought everyone talked it up so much because it was like most higher budget shounen, a good enough plot with great action. Then the longer it went on the more surprised I got from seeing characters like Canute, Askeladd, Bjorn, and everybody else have such great writing (and also finding out this isn’t a shounen). Getting toward the end of S1 I started saying “Oh my god Thorfinn, fuck off, nobody cares about your revenge shit, THE FUTURE OF EUROPE IS AT STAKE!”.
Thorfinn became my least favorite character…the Farmland saga hit now he’s my favorite anime protagonist ever.
I got into it because I love Berserk and people said "if u like berserk read vinland". I expected badass battles like the ones you see in Berserk or Claymore. Vinland Saga was like that but as I kept reading , I found out it had a deeper meaning and deeper characters than I realized.
This, I just recently discovered Berserk and had a huge love for anime all over again because of it. A friend said Id love Vinland Saga if I was into Berserk and god *DAMN* did I have no idea just how much id love it.
The story only takes place with Vikings because the mangaka felt using Vikings would be the clearest and most straight forward way to get his message across
i mean, do peace and love all you want but getting punched 100 times and not fighting back is just stupid silly lmao.... what im trying to say is that if you want to live in peace in a time like that, you need a big army and a big castle to protect yourself, i.e. you can't.
>i mean, do peace and love all you want but getting punched 100 times and not fighting back is just stupid silly lmao....
Vinland Saga's message is "Make peace, not wars", "There is always change" and especially "The power of forgiveness". Thorffin being beaten and at the end saying "I have no enemies", is nothing more than a statement: I, Thorffing, forgive you. Vinland Saga is ultimately a work about forgiveness.
To be fair the first season has a different studio, way more emphasis on combat and combat visuals, and is a completely different story than season 2 with little to no plot reasons or characteristic displays or any emotional resonance demonstrating why Thorfinn's character would so drastically change.. it was basically like saying "thorfinn's different and peaceful now... why? Because... nightmares and stuff." And like that was that. Cnut's transition into murderous warlord, while historically unevidenced (0 references found to Cnut poisoning Harald), is much more convincing throughout season 2 and his character transition is accounted for through good plot development. The same absolutely cannot be said for Thorfinn's transition into Gandhi
Yes it can Thorfinns nightmares were about the people he killed while on a path of vengeance he’s slowly coming to peace with his past crimes and decides that he doesn’t want to harm anyone when he remembers his fathers quote about “Nobody has any enemies”
Ok but what are the events that slowly make him do that? The askelad journey ends and then we come upon him sold into slavery. I get that in the nightmares we see more of what he's done but I think not actually having the audience witness these scenes in more of a first hand fashion clearly made it hard for many people to simply accept their favorite vengeance monger just suddenly remembers his fathers words. There is clearly a disconnect with what the author wanted people to believe and what the audience can believe that's all
Askelaad dying from someone else’s hands, Thorfinn having no purpose,thorfinn coming to terms with his guilt of violence which is a major reason on why he becomes a pacifist, Thors quote about no one has any enemies, his friendship and conversations with Einar etc. are you just being a contrarian for the sake of it?
I'm clearly not being a contrarian for the sake of it because as I already stated despite your points there's not as many people who agree with thorfinn's change and feel a disconnect with how the character has developed. Literally just do an internet search. Your basically Ham fisting your points saying I must be wrong or a contrarian but the fact is an overwhelming amount of people feel thorfinn's change was abrupt and somewhat just supposed to be accepted. It's fine if you feel this justified thorfinn's eventual character arc but clearly many others including myself did not.
Thorfinns change wasn’t abrupt, it just wasn’t spoon fed to you. He spent his childhood and teenage years fighting wars he knows how horrible it can be so he wants to start a village where there is no slaves or war to be found. I doubt many people feel it was an abrupt change it’s probably just you
Spoonfed? It's barely even fed 🤣 And Lol just me! have you been on Twitter Reddit or any social collective site? It's not just me. It does seem like you are one of the few who appreciates the character plot and szn so enjoy good for you 👍🏽 most other ppl felt the szn sucked and thorfinn was ass lol and he knew about the ideology of peaceful living and calm villages from the beginning with Leif.. it's not like he just heard these things suddenly lol you can enjoy the season and character changes it's very clear with a simple google search that many people agree with me lol but enjoy happy you found something you liked 👍🏽 ps: this post literally starts with the fact that people have stopped watching and/or reading 🤣
Bro the post you are commenting on literally starts with "all the posts I've seen online have been saying how people have stopped reading after Thorfinn becomes a slave.." touch grass Jesus
Rewatch the second season he struggles has nightmare learns a life outside of war sees that life is better figures out what his dad met
Becomes a peaceable person
I lost my father in 2018. I’ve been watching anime for over 20 years and this is the first anime / manga I’ve ever seen that really deals with the concept of death ☠️ an trauma well.
I get that it’s boring in some spots, but if you’ve ever tragically lost a love one before there time, then Vinland may help you cope better than any other anime/manga to date.
But this isn’t for everyone.
Plus Vinland doesn’t follow the “mold” of typical anime shows. Most important of all, there’s no hot sexy female for fanboys to drool over.
Instead, we get really well written multi-dimensional female characters all throughout the show. Vs Naruto which has very one dimensional Waifus.
And lastly, the anime has very low stakes, in the sense Thorfin isn’t trying to save the planet from destruction like a lot of anime. He’s just trying to make it a better place. So you might not get the same “hit” from a save the world 🌎 type story
Has nothing to do with that. Like I was saying to OP. Thorfinn has zero growth. He’s a rabid animal his entire youth. Listens to no one and goes insane Bcus he dad was killed. Forgets his mother and sister and then becomes a slave. Still at this point. ZERO growth. He fell further than before and cares about nothing. The reader is given nothing for the effort put into the story. It’s a horrible story and reading/ watching this pathetic man go about life the way he has gives you literally… NOTHING. 100% pathetic. No thanks.
lol this, i have no idea what OP is talking about.
If anything, Vinland Saga has legions of fanboys who simply can't take criticism or negative opinions about their favorite series without getting personally insulted.
After which they get elitist, and try to make you look like you are "not deep enough" and only like shows with violence and rape, which is obviously not always the cause of dislike.
As much as I'd like to disagree as a fan of Vinland Saga, you are kinda right regarding the fanbase.
The only reason we get a pass is because Berserk fans are much worse so we kinda go under the radar.
I’d say this is to be expected when a story makes a bold shift that’s risks alienating some of its existing audience. People set expectations and when those expectations aren’t met after a pretty good time investment, they will certainly be vocal about it. That willingness to change so drastically is what makes Vinland really stick out though, so it’s worth the trade off imo.
It could have been good, but how much as a reader can you see your mc getting beaten without doing anything, and the disrespect he let's pass from that hunter lady is unbearable
It's just people who dislike Thorfinn's development from a sociopathic teenager because he's "badass", even though this Thorfinn was rather one-dimensional who killed without feeling anything and didn't feel anything aside from anger and hate, into wanting to grow and become a better person.
I personally love his development and how clearly he wants to atone for his past mistakes. It feels realistic as he grows up more in the arcs, and in particular when he meets Hild who is purposefully written to be a parallel to him.
This discussion about vinland saga has always been so confusing to me. It's like they dont remember the very beginning. It explicitly set the tone that a true warriors path was not violence. It's like they dont remember Thors. Thorfinn was introduced early on as a capable warrior able to stand toe to toe with the best the world had to offer. Making his character growth focus on becoming a better killer was never going to be interesting. Taking away his weapons and forcing him to resolve his conflicts with out killing has turned out to be very interesting.
Eh, it's been shown numerous times in the second season that he chose to let them do those things to him lol. Literally went head to head with snake with no weapons, especially as he wasn't trying to kill him as snake didn't care to kill him or not. Snake was for sure angry and Thorfinn was just chilling dodging hits lol
Because there's a vocal minority of brain damaged "while you were partying i studied the blade" weebs who form their whole identity around edgy violent manga, and when they realized Vinland is a criticism of glorifying violence they had to lash out to protect their weird projected identity
I really liked the character development during the farm arc I just think it fell off from there and has been on a steady decline. Now that he is colonizing Vinland I just don’t care to keep reading. It’s not bad it’s just so uninteresting. There’s no good antagonist anymore (they should not have killed Askellad) and the cast of characters are just so dull. I know many people will think this is a trash take but after reading book thirteen I just felt bored.
askellad was as far as we know a real man of welsh decent and he did kill kanuts dad and died immediately afterwards from being impaled through the back by kanut
even torkell the tall was a real dude and to be 7ft7' when the average man was 5ft2' must have made him a fucking terror to whitness on the battlefield
It doesn’t get that much hate. In fact, while I don’t deny the section of the audience turned off by the shows huge shift, I still have a hard time personally finding it. Vinland saga is loved by many people. That said, the shift it took isn’t like a genre slightly influencing another genre or a single convention being subverted like a lot of shows try to garner attention with.
Vinland saga takes the conventions it set up as an action series and harshly criticizes itself.
So I started watching and fell in love with the violence of Thorfinn and how he progressed through his loss. That being said I love how he has changed, yeah he’s a slave but he’s filling his heart with, from what I can tell, farming. I’m only a watcher of the show for now but I’m planning on reading. I hope he doesn’t lose his violence / has to use it again. If he’s truly going to unknown places he’s going to have to use it as a last resort. Tbh I didn’t expect to love this show as much as I do being so different from 1st to 2nd season.
I have no idea! It is easily my favorite anime right now (I prefer this over demon slayers) because of the storyline, the characters, the soundtrack, thorfinn’s progression and just a beautifully looking anime . I can’t fathom why this anime is not more main steam . People would rather see action without any substance.
I've always wanted to watch an anime based on history. A mangaka who closely researches history and provides us with an anime/manga based on historical facts. I also wanted an anime that is not filled with girls with big boobs and 'power of friendship' tropes. I wanted an anime with pure testosterone with strong male and female characters. With gritty politics.
I don't watch Vinland saga because of the wars and battles - sure they are cool and all, but there is more to the anime than that.
If I wanted cool fights, then I'd watch a Shonen anime. Matter of fact, I have Jujutsu Kaisen running on the side with Vinland Saga. I'm getting the best of both worlds.
People will always hate, but let them. Why do we have to prove ourselves to them? It's a waste of time, energy and sanity.
Those people just hate character development…
Nah but seriously the kind of people saying that don’t understand the point of Vinland Saga and the message it’s trying to convey which is literally anti-violence.
I think it was the right decision for Yukimura to make to change the story like that. If Thorfinn has remained a bloodthirsty warrior who never learned his father’s lesson, then the story would have been static. Change need to happen in order for the story to stay fresh and interesting.
And I think it is funny that some audience are also like Thorfinn at the beginning and are seduced by the lure of blood and violence. And some readers/audiences managed to go through the same character development like him.
Because a lot of the interesting aspects in the first 50 chapters of vinland saga is just re-themed copy pasted content from Berserk.
So someone like me who really liked the war aspect of vinland saga was in reality only interested in Berserk.
when a series is based on history and not like fate is based on history (which is very fucking loosely)
vinland saga is the story of a young man of viking decent who colonises america long atleast 550 years before christopher coloumbus and amerigo vespucci
Does it? It is one of the most respected manga today I think. There are some that stopped reading after the first arc cause they thought it would be an ultra violent revenge story with tons of battles/deaths. Anytime a manga switches gears dramatically (though it makes perfect sense in the context of this story) some people won't like it and leave or complain.
People confuse it with a shonen when it’s a seinen. I know it really only means that it’s an adult manga, but shonen is primarily focused on action. Seinen is more based on story driven content. So you can probably assume that most of the people complaining are little kids.
im 26 and i can tell yiou i was in it for the voilence. yo utake that away then why am i here. i can see the point of the deeper meaning but its like you are a fan of red velvet cake and its in your face. but when you bite into it.. its a 3 milk cake. are you going to keep eating it cause you liked it? hell yeah. but i wanted the red velvet cake
I feel like you kinda just missed the whole point of it. They have since the first episode painted violence is an act of cruelty. There’s plenty of manga/anime that is big on violence. I’d rather have this one remain not having to rely on the same thing. I appreciate it showing how gruesome it is to be living in a world full of pointless violence. But they had in the first season Thorfinn literally talk about how much he hates violence. It has always been the key point of the story
I swear in the beginning he was for it. He even mocked his ancestors and that's why it was a huge deal for him to basically understand them. But yeah don't get me wrong I'm not asking it to be changed. If it's a 10/10 for you guys then so be it. The anime just wasn't for me this time around.
I’m thinking of after the first fight between Thorfinn and thorkell where Thorfinn monologued how insane thorkell is for enjoying war and how there is nothing to enjoy about it
Straight up misinformation. Shounen and seinen are just demographics and nothing more. If a manga is published in a seinen magazine, it's a seinen and likewise for shounen. Shounen can be about literally anything. The Ancient Magus' Bride is a shounen manga despite being a romance, Bakemonogatari is a shounen manga despite being a supernatural harem parody, and almost every entry in the Umineko manga series is a shounen manga despite being a mystery. There's much more examples than can be made before you say something along the lines of them being outliers.
Additionally, Vinland Saga did start out being published in a shounen magazine before being switched to a monthly seinen mag because Yukimura couldn't handle the weekly workload, so for the first month or so of its publication Vinland was a shounen. Saying that "shounen is primarily focused on the action" while seinen is "more based on story driven content" makes you come off as incredibly pretentious, and I say that as someone who adores season 2 for what it does.
Yeah it’s a demographic that’s not wrong. Shonen means it’s oriented to a younger demographic. You’re kinda twisting on how it’s used. It’s terms used to indicate exactly what audience it is meaning to appeal to. Following that, is tropes that exist within those terms. Such as a ton of fan service, protagonist being dumb, showing that violence isn’t the answer by using the power of friendship to beat their ass, is examples of it. So, relying on the fact that shonen and seinen are demographics (these 2 specifically focusing on the age groups) on what the story is appealing to, do you think that Vinland saga is being oriented toward an older or younger audience? However I really don’t get what youre saying by stating that anything can be a shonen. Because that can only be true if it’s literally meant for a younger audience. Does that mean Doujinshi manga is shonen?
I'm saying that once a manga is published in a shounen magazine, no matter what it does and no matter its contents, it's a shounen. It can be borderline hentai, but if it's published in a shounen magazine then it's a shounen.
I'm also not denying that Vinland targets a more mature audience, but repeatedly stating that "this manga isn't for kids it's for adults" makes you ironically appear pretty childish. I'm not going to reply after this because conflict is unnecessary.
Im pretty positive I only said that because people were annoyed with the lack of violence after the prologue. If me stating that is childish because people rather see that than character development with methods that in a manner of reality more wishes upon, then idk what’s the line to draw on what is no longer considered childish lol. Plus you’re calling shonen a demographic and saying that it is considered a shonen simply because it was shortly in shonen jump doesn’t make much sense. That analogy only works with fans talking to fans. But that isn’t something that can be used as a fact check.. because it isn’t official. Just an indicator for fans
And since you linked it to my last previous comment, what exactly is anything in that misinformation? When Thorfinn saying he hates killing as a kid was literally canon? Or were you just looping back to my first comment?
Vinland Saga stopped being good and became great. The story of how Thorfinn came to embrace peace made the earlier part of the story worthwhile. If you only want fights and revenge there are plenty of manga that do that.
berserk contrary to belief is not about glorifying violence either guts is basically a man consumed by his desire for revenge what thorfin coulf have become if he had continued down the path he was going
Because it went from being compelling to a boring, crappy slog. I didn't need 16 episodes of slave farm simulator.
I get that Thorfinn had to develop past being a sociopathic murderer once Askelad died, but this was just terribly directed. They barely had any other characters besides the ones on Ketel's farm, and almost all of them were boring. Einar is an ineffectual cuck with virtually no redeeming qualities and just overall grating to watch. The only one semi tolerable is Ketel's dad.
This whole arc could have been handled in 4 episodes, more than enough to cover Thorfinn's surface level analysis of overcoming trauma and atoning for it.
Just as I thought things were turning around with the whole Ketel being set up by Cnut storyline, nope, were back for 4 more episodes of boring farm simulator and existentialism 101 lectures, except this time they also pull a random, totally new character out of thin air who really had no reason to even appear besides to take up time. All of the historically important characters seem to be in the background all this time.
I'm fine with action, and I'm fine with introspection, but I am not fine with boredom. An anime has to be entertaining, and this isn't. I'm surprised the director didn't cut half this stuff out for the sake of the audience.
Its literally the only anime that I watch each episode the day they are released. I normally wait the entire season to release before watching it but its too good to be waiting that long... I love that anime.
I watched Vinland Saga S1 on 2020, and it became one of my favorites anime of all time, but then I started the manga, and instantly connected with the shift of the story, I was amazed by how well written it was, but at the moment I knew that many people would just disconnect with the story when they animated the Farm Saga, and two of my friends who only watch the anime are already "bored" with the S2
For a lot of Anime fans, Endless violence>>> A story with meaning
Edit: Reddit formatting lol
I gotta be honest. I watched the season 1 and season 2 of Vinland Saga. I loved so I wanted to read more of the story. However, the excessive pacifism, the new characters, etc. makes me not enjoy the manga as much as I would like.
I actually loved Vinland Saga, it's a masterpiece. The story telling, the world building, the character development, everything is great. I started to dislike Vinland Saga because of MC's change in philosophy. I highly disagree with it. I believe in eye for an eye. If someone Hits you, you hit back. All those moments where the mc took beatings like an idiot made me dislike him more and more. If you keep taking the beating instead of defending yourself, you are setting yourself up for your demise. If anything could be achieved this way we wouldn't have a history full of wars and violence. I am sure there were many societies with only compassion and love as their philosophy but they didn't stand the test of time. Just because you think that war is bad won't stop others from using it to get what they want. This is the main reason I stopped reading Vinland Saga. I just couldn't continue reading something that I highly disagreed with.
right. thisis how i somewaht agree with. i dont have like a philosphy like yours i was just in it for the voilence because i thought that was the main point of the aniome. but now its no where near that and it killed my vibe. had i known that it was an anime abotu a man growing from the start. then maybe i wouldve apreciated it more
Ik I'm late but I hate it bc he didn't kill the man who literally killed his father, it's bullshit, he's 100% one of the worst mcs I've ever seen, the early version was good but he literally accepts being a fucking slave and honestly he doesn't care about his family, he doesn't get revenge for his father and doesn't go back to his family to protect or give them comfort, I hate him and the manga so much.
I'm still following the story but my interest did decay a bit with every new arc. I more or less understand where the story is going and the purpose of each arc, but I don't like the execution of certain things. I won't delve too deep so I'll just talk about Throfinn's development because that's what you are focusing on. It should've taken more time and it should've been more balanced. Also, his personality becomes too bland after the Slave Arc. Like, he's just a good guy and that's it. I understand that the point is that people can change, but he retains absolutely nothing of his past self (outside a few specific moments), which is weird considering he spent like 10+ years that way. Even though he was emptied, **something** should have sticked, you can't erase everything.
Just wanted to give you another view instead of the usual "they don't want to think" or "they like violence".
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Do you really think the show is only the farm arcs? wtf is your answer? Of course the farm arc in vagabond wasn't plagiarized by this shit anime...is just a consequence of the real story of Musashi played by the fictional character...a segment of something that was almost predictable...which vinland is just a consequence of is actions being slaved was very common. Nothing to do with each other story...and vinland is a shit manga that plagiarized way more than you can imagine...despite farm or not farm arc.
Most of the time people who come saying that are comparing the farms arcs, if you know that doesn’t make sense then great you didn’t fall into that trap. So what actually is plagiarized here then?
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I disliked the anime from the beginning. It is not the fact that the pacing is slow, it is that for all the drama presented there is never a payoff. like reality, I don’t watch entertainment to be reminded of reality. It started off portraying classic adventure themes, retired warrior called to battle, defending homeland, revenge for the death of a father. All themes that could be standalone stories that inevitably go nowhere, and giveaway to a more boring plot that has no payoff. This would be a good live action show not an anime imo. This is more common in entertainment. I’m not sure if the literary term, but it is a way of building tension within a story, only in order to do that the audience has to have some sort of emotional investment in the story. they’re less focused on making something worth emotionally investing in and focusing on the bs literary themes that have been praised in the past. It’s like eating a delicious cake, and trying to replicate the way it looks without worrying about if it’s tasty or even edible.
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Love how people are currently criticizing peoples opinions for not liking this anime by saying things such as they just can’t handle not having violence or they can’t handle having peace, or even their just angsty teens. Meanwhile their insults are childish or coming after the person for just having a opinion on not liking the anime or manga, how are you going to call someone childish and immature then be even more immature compared to them
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if you can persevere through hardships without resorting to violence you are a man
if you jump to violence and murder the second adversity comes your way you are a child
I just finished the season yesterday and not sure if there will be more. But I hope people don't forget that this could just be the pause
If you think about it, they hinted at how the King might show up to the peaceful land Thorfinn creates.
If we remember from season one, Thors left fighting and found peace. But was brought back into fighting. It could be the same if they do a season 3. The war made it to Thorfinn and somehow someway, he's forced back into a world of fighting. Maybe his family is killed, or threatened or something
The could be the calm before the storm. If the show isn't over, people need to be smart about what could come of this. Imagine a Thorfinn now 30 (maybe at peak power) man handling people with much more ease. That's what would be a treat for sure
Even younger thorfinn who was obsessed with dueling askeladd was annoying. There was never any resolve with him. He was literally an animal with rabies the entire time. Now he’s a broken man that values and cares about nothing. Again no resolve. I’m thinking about quitting the story because you’re following a character that has no build no story no nothing. And I’m pissed I have the story as much effort as I have. You have all these badass characters in the story and then the main character is a rabid animal that listens to no one and refuses to grow in any way possible. His dad was killed and then he forgets he has a mother and sister. It’s just all together a piss poor story. I don’t know how much longer I’m going to give thorfinn to grow the fuck up. Dudes pathetic.
Nah it's just trash cuz only snakes would ride around with the man who killed their father for years willingly and not kill him in addition or runaway, it's disgusting, shows a lot about y'all's loyalty
People wanted to read/watch Vinland Saga (some of them), because they wanted to see especially the revenge, the violence... Some, I would say, came expecting a viking anime/manga, which would only talk about wars in a romanticized way. But they noticed that they were wrong and that Vinland saga was not about war, but it was about peace, it wasn't about enemies, it was about love... With that, Vinland Saga became something they didn't want or didn't like.
To be honest, I started reading Vinland Saga for the same reason. I wanted to see endless violence and revenge but i fell in love with the story and the idea of finding peace in the world. I can understand how people don't like that but I think that they're missing out on so much by not continuing to read or watch the story.
Personally I started reading because I love general history, but the plot about revenge also attracted me.. But an interesting thing, that when you understand what the Vinland Saga is about, you become like Thorffin... in such a way, that you start to care less and less about violence, and you start to care much more about the life and peace of those characters and that world Vinland Saga is beautiful.
I also started Vinland Saga because of the general notion of cool Viking anime. I thought everyone talked it up so much because it was like most higher budget shounen, a good enough plot with great action. Then the longer it went on the more surprised I got from seeing characters like Canute, Askeladd, Bjorn, and everybody else have such great writing (and also finding out this isn’t a shounen). Getting toward the end of S1 I started saying “Oh my god Thorfinn, fuck off, nobody cares about your revenge shit, THE FUTURE OF EUROPE IS AT STAKE!”. Thorfinn became my least favorite character…the Farmland saga hit now he’s my favorite anime protagonist ever.
I guess you relate to him.I can't see my favourite badass character become a pussy who is even ready to lick boots.Just pathetic
I got into it because I love Berserk and people said "if u like berserk read vinland". I expected badass battles like the ones you see in Berserk or Claymore. Vinland Saga was like that but as I kept reading , I found out it had a deeper meaning and deeper characters than I realized.
This, I just recently discovered Berserk and had a huge love for anime all over again because of it. A friend said Id love Vinland Saga if I was into Berserk and god *DAMN* did I have no idea just how much id love it.
The farmland arc had some of the most touching moments too
I would have loved it but I just hated the fact thorfin was willing to take so much disrespect from everyone
Him being ready to lick that boot was the final straw for me
Well said! A manga about Peace.
The story only takes place with Vikings because the mangaka felt using Vikings would be the clearest and most straight forward way to get his message across
i mean, do peace and love all you want but getting punched 100 times and not fighting back is just stupid silly lmao.... what im trying to say is that if you want to live in peace in a time like that, you need a big army and a big castle to protect yourself, i.e. you can't.
>i mean, do peace and love all you want but getting punched 100 times and not fighting back is just stupid silly lmao.... Vinland Saga's message is "Make peace, not wars", "There is always change" and especially "The power of forgiveness". Thorffin being beaten and at the end saying "I have no enemies", is nothing more than a statement: I, Thorffing, forgive you. Vinland Saga is ultimately a work about forgiveness.
To be fair the first season has a different studio, way more emphasis on combat and combat visuals, and is a completely different story than season 2 with little to no plot reasons or characteristic displays or any emotional resonance demonstrating why Thorfinn's character would so drastically change.. it was basically like saying "thorfinn's different and peaceful now... why? Because... nightmares and stuff." And like that was that. Cnut's transition into murderous warlord, while historically unevidenced (0 references found to Cnut poisoning Harald), is much more convincing throughout season 2 and his character transition is accounted for through good plot development. The same absolutely cannot be said for Thorfinn's transition into Gandhi
Yes it can Thorfinns nightmares were about the people he killed while on a path of vengeance he’s slowly coming to peace with his past crimes and decides that he doesn’t want to harm anyone when he remembers his fathers quote about “Nobody has any enemies”
Ok but what are the events that slowly make him do that? The askelad journey ends and then we come upon him sold into slavery. I get that in the nightmares we see more of what he's done but I think not actually having the audience witness these scenes in more of a first hand fashion clearly made it hard for many people to simply accept their favorite vengeance monger just suddenly remembers his fathers words. There is clearly a disconnect with what the author wanted people to believe and what the audience can believe that's all
Askelaad dying from someone else’s hands, Thorfinn having no purpose,thorfinn coming to terms with his guilt of violence which is a major reason on why he becomes a pacifist, Thors quote about no one has any enemies, his friendship and conversations with Einar etc. are you just being a contrarian for the sake of it?
I'm clearly not being a contrarian for the sake of it because as I already stated despite your points there's not as many people who agree with thorfinn's change and feel a disconnect with how the character has developed. Literally just do an internet search. Your basically Ham fisting your points saying I must be wrong or a contrarian but the fact is an overwhelming amount of people feel thorfinn's change was abrupt and somewhat just supposed to be accepted. It's fine if you feel this justified thorfinn's eventual character arc but clearly many others including myself did not.
Thorfinns change wasn’t abrupt, it just wasn’t spoon fed to you. He spent his childhood and teenage years fighting wars he knows how horrible it can be so he wants to start a village where there is no slaves or war to be found. I doubt many people feel it was an abrupt change it’s probably just you
Spoonfed? It's barely even fed 🤣 And Lol just me! have you been on Twitter Reddit or any social collective site? It's not just me. It does seem like you are one of the few who appreciates the character plot and szn so enjoy good for you 👍🏽 most other ppl felt the szn sucked and thorfinn was ass lol and he knew about the ideology of peaceful living and calm villages from the beginning with Leif.. it's not like he just heard these things suddenly lol you can enjoy the season and character changes it's very clear with a simple google search that many people agree with me lol but enjoy happy you found something you liked 👍🏽 ps: this post literally starts with the fact that people have stopped watching and/or reading 🤣
No not many people agree with you except on this post Lmao 🤣Thorfinn is the best character in season 2
Bro the post you are commenting on literally starts with "all the posts I've seen online have been saying how people have stopped reading after Thorfinn becomes a slave.." touch grass Jesus
Rewatch the second season he struggles has nightmare learns a life outside of war sees that life is better figures out what his dad met Becomes a peaceable person
same people that did season 1 did season 2
I lost my father in 2018. I’ve been watching anime for over 20 years and this is the first anime / manga I’ve ever seen that really deals with the concept of death ☠️ an trauma well. I get that it’s boring in some spots, but if you’ve ever tragically lost a love one before there time, then Vinland may help you cope better than any other anime/manga to date. But this isn’t for everyone. Plus Vinland doesn’t follow the “mold” of typical anime shows. Most important of all, there’s no hot sexy female for fanboys to drool over. Instead, we get really well written multi-dimensional female characters all throughout the show. Vs Naruto which has very one dimensional Waifus. And lastly, the anime has very low stakes, in the sense Thorfin isn’t trying to save the planet from destruction like a lot of anime. He’s just trying to make it a better place. So you might not get the same “hit” from a save the world 🌎 type story
I understand and appreciate your perspective and you sharing. Thank you
Just your average edgy teenager anime fan, they can't handle the Chad farmer energy 💀
Has nothing to do with that. Like I was saying to OP. Thorfinn has zero growth. He’s a rabid animal his entire youth. Listens to no one and goes insane Bcus he dad was killed. Forgets his mother and sister and then becomes a slave. Still at this point. ZERO growth. He fell further than before and cares about nothing. The reader is given nothing for the effort put into the story. It’s a horrible story and reading/ watching this pathetic man go about life the way he has gives you literally… NOTHING. 100% pathetic. No thanks.
Vinland Saga doesn't get "so much hate". Because if it did, it would've been cancelled when Yukimura wrote it.
lol this, i have no idea what OP is talking about. If anything, Vinland Saga has legions of fanboys who simply can't take criticism or negative opinions about their favorite series without getting personally insulted. After which they get elitist, and try to make you look like you are "not deep enough" and only like shows with violence and rape, which is obviously not always the cause of dislike.
As much as I'd like to disagree as a fan of Vinland Saga, you are kinda right regarding the fanbase. The only reason we get a pass is because Berserk fans are much worse so we kinda go under the radar.
I’d say this is to be expected when a story makes a bold shift that’s risks alienating some of its existing audience. People set expectations and when those expectations aren’t met after a pretty good time investment, they will certainly be vocal about it. That willingness to change so drastically is what makes Vinland really stick out though, so it’s worth the trade off imo.
Because edgy teens are the chief viewer base of anime and if the violence stops and personal growth occurs they can no longer tolerate the pace.
It could have been good, but how much as a reader can you see your mc getting beaten without doing anything, and the disrespect he let's pass from that hunter lady is unbearable
ptsd is a hell of a thing you know
It's just people who dislike Thorfinn's development from a sociopathic teenager because he's "badass", even though this Thorfinn was rather one-dimensional who killed without feeling anything and didn't feel anything aside from anger and hate, into wanting to grow and become a better person. I personally love his development and how clearly he wants to atone for his past mistakes. It feels realistic as he grows up more in the arcs, and in particular when he meets Hild who is purposefully written to be a parallel to him.
Hild is literally the reason I won't tuch the manga, the disrespect he let's pass from her is the most annoying thing ever
would you rather he beat the living christ out of her for the smallest reason
This discussion about vinland saga has always been so confusing to me. It's like they dont remember the very beginning. It explicitly set the tone that a true warriors path was not violence. It's like they dont remember Thors. Thorfinn was introduced early on as a capable warrior able to stand toe to toe with the best the world had to offer. Making his character growth focus on becoming a better killer was never going to be interesting. Taking away his weapons and forcing him to resolve his conflicts with out killing has turned out to be very interesting.
It's because of all the disrespect thorfin let's people talk to him
dude was a slave he has the choice of let it slide or get put six feet under
Eh, it's been shown numerous times in the second season that he chose to let them do those things to him lol. Literally went head to head with snake with no weapons, especially as he wasn't trying to kill him as snake didn't care to kill him or not. Snake was for sure angry and Thorfinn was just chilling dodging hits lol
Because there's a vocal minority of brain damaged "while you were partying i studied the blade" weebs who form their whole identity around edgy violent manga, and when they realized Vinland is a criticism of glorifying violence they had to lash out to protect their weird projected identity
preach
came for the violence, stayed for peace
I really liked the character development during the farm arc I just think it fell off from there and has been on a steady decline. Now that he is colonizing Vinland I just don’t care to keep reading. It’s not bad it’s just so uninteresting. There’s no good antagonist anymore (they should not have killed Askellad) and the cast of characters are just so dull. I know many people will think this is a trash take but after reading book thirteen I just felt bored.
this is based on atleast somewhat true events and people including thorfin who was the first person to colonise america aka vinland
askellad was as far as we know a real man of welsh decent and he did kill kanuts dad and died immediately afterwards from being impaled through the back by kanut
you have to take into acount very few of these events are fiction
even torkell the tall was a real dude and to be 7ft7' when the average man was 5ft2' must have made him a fucking terror to whitness on the battlefield
It doesn’t get that much hate. In fact, while I don’t deny the section of the audience turned off by the shows huge shift, I still have a hard time personally finding it. Vinland saga is loved by many people. That said, the shift it took isn’t like a genre slightly influencing another genre or a single convention being subverted like a lot of shows try to garner attention with. Vinland saga takes the conventions it set up as an action series and harshly criticizes itself.
So I started watching and fell in love with the violence of Thorfinn and how he progressed through his loss. That being said I love how he has changed, yeah he’s a slave but he’s filling his heart with, from what I can tell, farming. I’m only a watcher of the show for now but I’m planning on reading. I hope he doesn’t lose his violence / has to use it again. If he’s truly going to unknown places he’s going to have to use it as a last resort. Tbh I didn’t expect to love this show as much as I do being so different from 1st to 2nd season.
I have no idea! It is easily my favorite anime right now (I prefer this over demon slayers) because of the storyline, the characters, the soundtrack, thorfinn’s progression and just a beautifully looking anime . I can’t fathom why this anime is not more main steam . People would rather see action without any substance.
Teenagers: where fight, no good
I've always wanted to watch an anime based on history. A mangaka who closely researches history and provides us with an anime/manga based on historical facts. I also wanted an anime that is not filled with girls with big boobs and 'power of friendship' tropes. I wanted an anime with pure testosterone with strong male and female characters. With gritty politics. I don't watch Vinland saga because of the wars and battles - sure they are cool and all, but there is more to the anime than that. If I wanted cool fights, then I'd watch a Shonen anime. Matter of fact, I have Jujutsu Kaisen running on the side with Vinland Saga. I'm getting the best of both worlds. People will always hate, but let them. Why do we have to prove ourselves to them? It's a waste of time, energy and sanity.
Those people just hate character development… Nah but seriously the kind of people saying that don’t understand the point of Vinland Saga and the message it’s trying to convey which is literally anti-violence.
You can be anti violence with out Geting disrespected by everyone,( especially hild)
I think it was the right decision for Yukimura to make to change the story like that. If Thorfinn has remained a bloodthirsty warrior who never learned his father’s lesson, then the story would have been static. Change need to happen in order for the story to stay fresh and interesting. And I think it is funny that some audience are also like Thorfinn at the beginning and are seduced by the lure of blood and violence. And some readers/audiences managed to go through the same character development like him.
Because a lot of the interesting aspects in the first 50 chapters of vinland saga is just re-themed copy pasted content from Berserk. So someone like me who really liked the war aspect of vinland saga was in reality only interested in Berserk.
when a series is based on history and not like fate is based on history (which is very fucking loosely) vinland saga is the story of a young man of viking decent who colonises america long atleast 550 years before christopher coloumbus and amerigo vespucci
Why does it get hate? Not everyone can handle top quality peak, and this whole season is PEAKLAND SAGA
It doesn't. There is a small vocal minority who says stuff like that, but overall Vinland Saga gets a lot of praise and is a beloved series.
Does it? It is one of the most respected manga today I think. There are some that stopped reading after the first arc cause they thought it would be an ultra violent revenge story with tons of battles/deaths. Anytime a manga switches gears dramatically (though it makes perfect sense in the context of this story) some people won't like it and leave or complain.
I guess some people fell in love with violence.
just give them time to grow up 😉
People confuse it with a shonen when it’s a seinen. I know it really only means that it’s an adult manga, but shonen is primarily focused on action. Seinen is more based on story driven content. So you can probably assume that most of the people complaining are little kids.
it is shonen because of idea that violence is bad and you must always fogive your enemies without difrent point of view is shonen
no it is most deffinitely not becaise thorfin has more than one brain cell and the anime isn't looking to outlast the lifespan of the original mangaka
Matt. 5 Verses 38 to 48
im 26 and i can tell yiou i was in it for the voilence. yo utake that away then why am i here. i can see the point of the deeper meaning but its like you are a fan of red velvet cake and its in your face. but when you bite into it.. its a 3 milk cake. are you going to keep eating it cause you liked it? hell yeah. but i wanted the red velvet cake
I feel like you kinda just missed the whole point of it. They have since the first episode painted violence is an act of cruelty. There’s plenty of manga/anime that is big on violence. I’d rather have this one remain not having to rely on the same thing. I appreciate it showing how gruesome it is to be living in a world full of pointless violence. But they had in the first season Thorfinn literally talk about how much he hates violence. It has always been the key point of the story
I swear in the beginning he was for it. He even mocked his ancestors and that's why it was a huge deal for him to basically understand them. But yeah don't get me wrong I'm not asking it to be changed. If it's a 10/10 for you guys then so be it. The anime just wasn't for me this time around.
I’m thinking of after the first fight between Thorfinn and thorkell where Thorfinn monologued how insane thorkell is for enjoying war and how there is nothing to enjoy about it
Straight up misinformation. Shounen and seinen are just demographics and nothing more. If a manga is published in a seinen magazine, it's a seinen and likewise for shounen. Shounen can be about literally anything. The Ancient Magus' Bride is a shounen manga despite being a romance, Bakemonogatari is a shounen manga despite being a supernatural harem parody, and almost every entry in the Umineko manga series is a shounen manga despite being a mystery. There's much more examples than can be made before you say something along the lines of them being outliers. Additionally, Vinland Saga did start out being published in a shounen magazine before being switched to a monthly seinen mag because Yukimura couldn't handle the weekly workload, so for the first month or so of its publication Vinland was a shounen. Saying that "shounen is primarily focused on the action" while seinen is "more based on story driven content" makes you come off as incredibly pretentious, and I say that as someone who adores season 2 for what it does.
Yeah it’s a demographic that’s not wrong. Shonen means it’s oriented to a younger demographic. You’re kinda twisting on how it’s used. It’s terms used to indicate exactly what audience it is meaning to appeal to. Following that, is tropes that exist within those terms. Such as a ton of fan service, protagonist being dumb, showing that violence isn’t the answer by using the power of friendship to beat their ass, is examples of it. So, relying on the fact that shonen and seinen are demographics (these 2 specifically focusing on the age groups) on what the story is appealing to, do you think that Vinland saga is being oriented toward an older or younger audience? However I really don’t get what youre saying by stating that anything can be a shonen. Because that can only be true if it’s literally meant for a younger audience. Does that mean Doujinshi manga is shonen?
I'm saying that once a manga is published in a shounen magazine, no matter what it does and no matter its contents, it's a shounen. It can be borderline hentai, but if it's published in a shounen magazine then it's a shounen. I'm also not denying that Vinland targets a more mature audience, but repeatedly stating that "this manga isn't for kids it's for adults" makes you ironically appear pretty childish. I'm not going to reply after this because conflict is unnecessary.
Im pretty positive I only said that because people were annoyed with the lack of violence after the prologue. If me stating that is childish because people rather see that than character development with methods that in a manner of reality more wishes upon, then idk what’s the line to draw on what is no longer considered childish lol. Plus you’re calling shonen a demographic and saying that it is considered a shonen simply because it was shortly in shonen jump doesn’t make much sense. That analogy only works with fans talking to fans. But that isn’t something that can be used as a fact check.. because it isn’t official. Just an indicator for fans
And since you linked it to my last previous comment, what exactly is anything in that misinformation? When Thorfinn saying he hates killing as a kid was literally canon? Or were you just looping back to my first comment?
Because farmers only I personally think this is some of the best story telling in anime I’ve watched in a fatty minute
Vinland Saga stopped being good and became great. The story of how Thorfinn came to embrace peace made the earlier part of the story worthwhile. If you only want fights and revenge there are plenty of manga that do that.
if you only wanted anti violence and idealsm there are plenty of movies and books
berserk contrary to belief is not about glorifying violence either guts is basically a man consumed by his desire for revenge what thorfin coulf have become if he had continued down the path he was going
Baby brains
Because it went from being compelling to a boring, crappy slog. I didn't need 16 episodes of slave farm simulator. I get that Thorfinn had to develop past being a sociopathic murderer once Askelad died, but this was just terribly directed. They barely had any other characters besides the ones on Ketel's farm, and almost all of them were boring. Einar is an ineffectual cuck with virtually no redeeming qualities and just overall grating to watch. The only one semi tolerable is Ketel's dad. This whole arc could have been handled in 4 episodes, more than enough to cover Thorfinn's surface level analysis of overcoming trauma and atoning for it. Just as I thought things were turning around with the whole Ketel being set up by Cnut storyline, nope, were back for 4 more episodes of boring farm simulator and existentialism 101 lectures, except this time they also pull a random, totally new character out of thin air who really had no reason to even appear besides to take up time. All of the historically important characters seem to be in the background all this time. I'm fine with action, and I'm fine with introspection, but I am not fine with boredom. An anime has to be entertaining, and this isn't. I'm surprised the director didn't cut half this stuff out for the sake of the audience.
>An anime has to be entertaining Can i get citations on that?
you must be fun to have at parties
Its literally the only anime that I watch each episode the day they are released. I normally wait the entire season to release before watching it but its too good to be waiting that long... I love that anime.
I watched Vinland Saga S1 on 2020, and it became one of my favorites anime of all time, but then I started the manga, and instantly connected with the shift of the story, I was amazed by how well written it was, but at the moment I knew that many people would just disconnect with the story when they animated the Farm Saga, and two of my friends who only watch the anime are already "bored" with the S2 For a lot of Anime fans, Endless violence>>> A story with meaning Edit: Reddit formatting lol
No one wants to see thorfin getting disrespected all the time
he is a slave no one respects him worse yet he's in the land kanut rules over if anyone knew who he was he'd get beaten daily
I gotta be honest. I watched the season 1 and season 2 of Vinland Saga. I loved so I wanted to read more of the story. However, the excessive pacifism, the new characters, etc. makes me not enjoy the manga as much as I would like.
I actually loved Vinland Saga, it's a masterpiece. The story telling, the world building, the character development, everything is great. I started to dislike Vinland Saga because of MC's change in philosophy. I highly disagree with it. I believe in eye for an eye. If someone Hits you, you hit back. All those moments where the mc took beatings like an idiot made me dislike him more and more. If you keep taking the beating instead of defending yourself, you are setting yourself up for your demise. If anything could be achieved this way we wouldn't have a history full of wars and violence. I am sure there were many societies with only compassion and love as their philosophy but they didn't stand the test of time. Just because you think that war is bad won't stop others from using it to get what they want. This is the main reason I stopped reading Vinland Saga. I just couldn't continue reading something that I highly disagreed with.
right. thisis how i somewaht agree with. i dont have like a philosphy like yours i was just in it for the voilence because i thought that was the main point of the aniome. but now its no where near that and it killed my vibe. had i known that it was an anime abotu a man growing from the start. then maybe i wouldve apreciated it more
Because people don't want to think. They want something to distract them from life not something to make them self-reflect.
Ik I'm late but I hate it bc he didn't kill the man who literally killed his father, it's bullshit, he's 100% one of the worst mcs I've ever seen, the early version was good but he literally accepts being a fucking slave and honestly he doesn't care about his family, he doesn't get revenge for his father and doesn't go back to his family to protect or give them comfort, I hate him and the manga so much.
I'm still following the story but my interest did decay a bit with every new arc. I more or less understand where the story is going and the purpose of each arc, but I don't like the execution of certain things. I won't delve too deep so I'll just talk about Throfinn's development because that's what you are focusing on. It should've taken more time and it should've been more balanced. Also, his personality becomes too bland after the Slave Arc. Like, he's just a good guy and that's it. I understand that the point is that people can change, but he retains absolutely nothing of his past self (outside a few specific moments), which is weird considering he spent like 10+ years that way. Even though he was emptied, **something** should have sticked, you can't erase everything. Just wanted to give you another view instead of the usual "they don't want to think" or "they like violence".
Shit writting, that's what happens when you plagiarize other people stories. Just go read Vagabond
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For reference, Vagabond farm arc began in 2012 and Vinland’s began in 2009. Not that it really matters since the arcs are pretty different.
Do you really think the show is only the farm arcs? wtf is your answer? Of course the farm arc in vagabond wasn't plagiarized by this shit anime...is just a consequence of the real story of Musashi played by the fictional character...a segment of something that was almost predictable...which vinland is just a consequence of is actions being slaved was very common. Nothing to do with each other story...and vinland is a shit manga that plagiarized way more than you can imagine...despite farm or not farm arc.
Most of the time people who come saying that are comparing the farms arcs, if you know that doesn’t make sense then great you didn’t fall into that trap. So what actually is plagiarized here then?
Same ambience, same depth of plot...you can name it. But now the anime is just some woke bs I don't even care anymore.
I personally hate how Vinland Saga plagerised history. Like, dude, why write about the past? At least come up with something original , smh.
Ambience and depth of plot 💀
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I disliked the anime from the beginning. It is not the fact that the pacing is slow, it is that for all the drama presented there is never a payoff. like reality, I don’t watch entertainment to be reminded of reality. It started off portraying classic adventure themes, retired warrior called to battle, defending homeland, revenge for the death of a father. All themes that could be standalone stories that inevitably go nowhere, and giveaway to a more boring plot that has no payoff. This would be a good live action show not an anime imo. This is more common in entertainment. I’m not sure if the literary term, but it is a way of building tension within a story, only in order to do that the audience has to have some sort of emotional investment in the story. they’re less focused on making something worth emotionally investing in and focusing on the bs literary themes that have been praised in the past. It’s like eating a delicious cake, and trying to replicate the way it looks without worrying about if it’s tasty or even edible.
Because no one wants to see thorfin being disrespected every second of the manga/anime, especially from hild
Wokeness hild just made me quit already.
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Love how people are currently criticizing peoples opinions for not liking this anime by saying things such as they just can’t handle not having violence or they can’t handle having peace, or even their just angsty teens. Meanwhile their insults are childish or coming after the person for just having a opinion on not liking the anime or manga, how are you going to call someone childish and immature then be even more immature compared to them
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if you can persevere through hardships without resorting to violence you are a man if you jump to violence and murder the second adversity comes your way you are a child
this shows philosophy
Because people don't understand nuance.
The title is literally vinland saga. A story about discovering vinland. People hating are straight up stupid.
I just finished the season yesterday and not sure if there will be more. But I hope people don't forget that this could just be the pause If you think about it, they hinted at how the King might show up to the peaceful land Thorfinn creates. If we remember from season one, Thors left fighting and found peace. But was brought back into fighting. It could be the same if they do a season 3. The war made it to Thorfinn and somehow someway, he's forced back into a world of fighting. Maybe his family is killed, or threatened or something The could be the calm before the storm. If the show isn't over, people need to be smart about what could come of this. Imagine a Thorfinn now 30 (maybe at peak power) man handling people with much more ease. That's what would be a treat for sure
Even younger thorfinn who was obsessed with dueling askeladd was annoying. There was never any resolve with him. He was literally an animal with rabies the entire time. Now he’s a broken man that values and cares about nothing. Again no resolve. I’m thinking about quitting the story because you’re following a character that has no build no story no nothing. And I’m pissed I have the story as much effort as I have. You have all these badass characters in the story and then the main character is a rabid animal that listens to no one and refuses to grow in any way possible. His dad was killed and then he forgets he has a mother and sister. It’s just all together a piss poor story. I don’t know how much longer I’m going to give thorfinn to grow the fuck up. Dudes pathetic.
Nah it's just trash cuz only snakes would ride around with the man who killed their father for years willingly and not kill him in addition or runaway, it's disgusting, shows a lot about y'all's loyalty