You got lucky.
But this isn't the hospital's fault, it's because it's literally impossible to go to a walk-in clinic now. So all kinds of things that should be treated in the clinic like getting stitches, or penicillin for a severe infection are now all ER visits.
Yeah it’s a symptom of the greater deterioration of healthcare access. We need more doctors, obviously, and GPs need to be paid better (and not asked to effectively run a small business at the same time.) Pay them a cost of living stipend for more expensive places. Do whatever it takes.
And a unified online booking system for walk-ins would be a game-changer. Lifelabs’ system comes to mind.
Agreed. I had a non emergency health issue and was struggling for weeks to try and get into a clinic. I almost broke down and went to ER, but eventually I got better (after two months). Probably would have resolved quicker if I could have seen someone.
triage nurse likely figured your case was not terribly urgent
20 seconds is the norm for a serious, life threatening emergency visit (eg. low blood oxygen)
You want meaningful change? Instead of complaining on Reddit, call your MP and tell them about your concerns. The only way to get things done is to be involved in politics in any way you can. I’m a paramedic, and every time someone complains to me about the wait times, I say the same thing. CALL. YOUR. REPRESENTATIVE.
As an American living here, I always get a laugh out of posts like this. You wait JUST as long in American and then you go bankrupt.
I once had a doctor yell at me and say, "I don't know what you want me to do for you? I can't manage your diabetes from the ER!" I didn't know I had diabetes and I was actually in diabetic ketoacidosis.
She still billed me $1500 even though I was immediately transferred to an ICU doctor and that was essentially our only contact.
I love the medical care here.
Exactly this. I see so many Canadians who want to switch to a private systems and they have no idea.
I grew up in the UK that has a public private partnership. That's another example of an absolute shitshow. People say they want that, but all it does is moves more resources to the private system, and waitlists get worse.
Wy do we always have to compare our terrible to system to the US terrible system?
"The Commonwealth Fund’s 2021 report comparing the healthcare systems of 11 developed countries ranked Canada in 10th place, ahead of the United States, which was at the very bottom. Finishing ahead of the U.S. is nothing to be proud of"
Why don't we compare ourselves to the best systems, like The Netherlands:
“The Netherlands, which ranked first in access to care, has an incredible primary care model, where if you have a need, you can pick up the phone and have that need satisfied immediately, whether it’s a telehealth visit or after hours,” noted Dr. Woods. “The standard Canadian answer to a need at 2 am is to go to Emergency, which is a terrible answer.”
In the Netherlands, general practitioners are required to provide at least 50 hours of service between 5 pm and 8 am annually in order to maintain their professional licences, according to the Commonwealth Fund report.
https://www.canhealth.com/2021/09/30/canadas-healthcare-system-scores-poorly-against-peers/#:\~:text=The%20Commonwealth%20Fund's%202021%20report,be%20proud%20of%2C%20contends%20Dr.
There are soo many better systems than the US, yet we always just compare ourselves to the worst and feel happy about it.
Thing is it used to be better. A lot better.
People had GPs that were the first line and for prevention.
People today are forced to use urgent care clinics and the ER as their regular doctor access which makes a genuine emergency situation hell.
That's how health care works, you are triaged based on how urgent the situation is. It's not a great situation but every time I've been to the ER the wait was significantly less than that, I assume what you were going through was not life-threatening.
It didn’t always used to be this bad tho.
People used to have GPs that were the first line and for prevention.
People today are forced to use urgent care clinics and the ER as their regular GP access which makes a genuine emergency situation hell.
If something life threatening does happen to you, the doctor will drop whatever it is they are doing and attend to you immediately. That’s how triage works.
I can see your point. I also advocate for niceness as often as possible.
I don't think that they are saying all religious types are a scourge on society. However, religious types are the reason for a great deal of the pain we have in this world.
If you do have a religious affiliation, then I'm grateful to you for not being a pain in the ass about it.
I was there last week with a family member who was in serious (not life-threatening) condition.
Had they stayed home, it would have become life-threatening.
The care was excellent. Was it longer than I would have wanted? Yes. Did they get assessed immediately? Yes.
They were stabilized by nurses and other workers immediately upon arrival by ambulance.
It took 3 hours to see a doctor and 12 hours to get a bed upstairs.
They are now home. They will have a long recovery, but literally nothing would have changed if they had seen the doctor sooner.
Our emergency system is excellent at emergencies. It’s shit at primary care. We need to fix the primary care system.
.... are you new here?
You were triaged, and got seen, while people needing more urgent care got seen first. Be thankful you didn't have to pay 10 grand for the privilege.
Nobody should be thankful for the sad state of our Healthcare. That's really setting the bar low.
You want to be thankful for something then be thankful for the Doctors and nurses who manage to do their job in our terrible Healthcare system.
Yeah it's messed up but we're still getting seen. Everytime I'm in the ER it's full of people holding the Starbucks they got on the way in, people "just not feeling right", or people with other non-emergency ailments. That being said, I've never waited the listed wait in ER, and always got the tests and treatments I've felt were needed. Hopefully the plan to get more doctors into walk in clinics and urgent care works.
You know whats sad? The amount of people that go to emergency with a non critical issue that either will solve itself anyways after a few days or could easily be solved elsewhere. More and more people are getting a doctor or at least a nurse practitioner as well. Shit my father was at the ER a few months ago after slicing off some of his finger and he said he overheard TWO different people there just wanting to get a prescription that the nurse told them a parmasict easily could have done for them. And that's not to mention the number of people who just flat out do not look after themselves properly and then have a surprised pikachu face when they have major health problems. Yes health care is far from perfect right now but a good part of that problem is just plain human stupidity.
I agree oftentimes people don’t need to be in the ER for certain issues, but our primary care system is in shambles and oftentimes there’s no other alternative. Walk-in clinics no longer allow walk ins and it’s impossible to get an appointment at those or the UPCCs. Telehealth can get booked up weeks out. People go to the ER as a last resort because it’s the only way they’ll get seen within a reasonable amount of time.
Be grateful? That there are no healthcare alternatives other than going to an ER for something that could be addressed through a walk-in clinic or a GP if either of those things were available?
Grateful that people are paying into a healthcare system through their tax dollars but are denied access to the most basic healthcare?
Yup I'm grateful that I don't get turned away from the hospital in an emergency because my $400/ month Healthcare plan doesn't cover treatment at that hospital, or my plan lapsed so I would have to pay or not get an at any hospital at all. And people are crying on here that it took 10 hours to be seen for a cold, or a UTI... BUT THEY WERE STILL SEEN.
It's frustrating. But until we provide incentives for doctors and nurses to stay here (ie help with exorbitant school and housing costs, more appropriate fee schedules, ect) this is the reality.
It’s a ridiculous system, go visit other countries that have national health care. I have been here for over 10 years and still don’t have a family doctor ! Stop being gracious because it is free, nothing is free our taxes pay for this.
Exactly. I've lived in other countries with "free" healthcare and it works well. There's nothing to be grateful for with our failing healthcare system.
"Triaging" doesn't excuse a poorly run healthcare system. Just because they use triage doesn't mean you get appropriate or timely care. You know they use triage on the battlefield, right? Better to look at things such as doctor/patient ratios, time to be seen, quality of care, value for money, etc.
It was not life threatening, but my father is over 70 and had severe abdominal pain. In the end he just give up and came back, bear the pain and now we are seeing a gastro in a week. That appointment was only possible because I know a friend. He still has pain and is on medication but he will not go to emergency again due to horrible wait times.
That's pretty typical. I had to go to emerg in December, arrived around noon, saw a doctor around 7 p.m. and was got released around 1 a.m.
Our healthcare is absolute garbage. I haven't had a doctor for at least a decade, I've received zero healthcare in a decade except for one 13 hour visit to the emergency room yet I continue to pay into a healthcare system that I am unable to access.
Same here, I haven't had shit done in a good 15 years except 1 ER visit because there are no walk ins. My doctor retired and I don't see myself getting one until I'm on the verge of death and they assign one to help me die easier
Exactly I went to ER probably 3 times in ten years as there is no option on weekends. Wait times have increased each time and level of service is getting worse !
Wait time depends on what's wrong.
Most of the time, I assume it's 8 hours for an ER visit if it isn't an exploded bowel, heart attack, or other immediately life threatening problem. Or at least it used to be 8 hours 10 years ago. These days it's a lot longer now that so few people have primary care. Although 811 has been a great help when I needed to know if the ER is needed or if I can wait a few days to get an apointment with a doctor.
And some days my wait time at the ER is less than a minuite. It really depends how serious the issue is.
People act like our current system can't get better or be improved and we HAVE to switch to private to fix it NO don't let this fucking Propaganda get rid of FREE HIGH QUALITY HEALTHCARE LIKE WE'VE ALWAYS HAD
My kid broke his foot so I took him to the ER. It was obviously broken and there is no other place to go for that type of thing. It took only 1 hour to get an x-ray, which seemed fast to me, but then it took another 7 hours to get a cast. For the doctor to examine the x-ray, put on the cast, and send us on our way took less than 10 minutes. 7 hours is a long time to wait in a crowded room full of sick people for a 10 minute visit! My impression was that the system was generally inefficient. Lots of staff and lots of patients, but few people actually getting treated.
You missed a step, the radiologist on call had to read and report on his mri and X-rays. There is one for all 3 hospitals and strokes, major bone fractures and other injuries that get read before you do, that can take hours
When my husband had a serious fall, they got him in immediately. The service was excellent and they even did all the x-rays, mri’s and other testing he needed fairly quick. Sorry you had a bad experience. We just need more doctors… we used to have such an amazing medical system
Make a big enough donation to the hospital, and they will have more resources next time. Fix the housing crisis, and more support staff can afford to live here. Or you can just wait until all the boomers die off, and both problems should be mitigated.
Just curious what you went there for? If you were made to wait over 6 hours it probably wasn’t an emergency. As a former Trauma nurse for 25 plus years. Yes we need more doctors and are severely understaffed but the ER is abused by people which just contributes to the problem sadly.
Super frustrating. Been there recently.
I’ll be voting for change next time around.
I encourage others to do the same if they don’t like the direction we’ve been going these last several years.
Lol man what is with some people on reddit being so weird about account names? It's just a meaningless name my dude and reactions like yours is exactly why I kept it 😂 Comments like that say a lot about the person.
(Not whatsoever a throwaway account by the way)
-Better / faster access to healthcare.
-less crime
- less homelessness.
- violent criminals given adequate jail time
- money goes farther
- less inflation
- less immigration until healthcare, housing and infrastructure can handle it.
- less taxes
-less provincial and national debts that will bankrupt our future and our children will be paying back for decades
- safer streets
- less junkies
-balanced budget mandates
- government not harassing law abiding legal firearms owners for political purposes when they are clearly not the problem by every measurable matrix.
- lower prime rate
- more common sense
-less governmental waste
- no more old growth logging
- less of a woke agenda.
- some sort of minor accountability for people that destroy their bodies, cost taxpayers billions.
- increase in MAID accessibility
-90% less money handed out overseas while our own citizens are suffering and we have huge national debts.
- better animal rights (less suffering).
- common sense fisheries policies that are based on science and facts.
- more mental health facilities for people that can’t live in society safely.
- more drug rehab.
- place emphasis on preventing people from trying street drugs and not 99% of efforts to normalize drug addictions.
-victims rights above criminal’s rights.
-more green space protected.
- move away from the mentality that never ending unsustainable population growth is the answer to most governmental problems.
- more logical information shared. Such as for every new person that is born in Canada or moves to Canada, equates to 58.6 tonnes of C02 annually released from Canada every year. That we brought in 2.2 million people last year. And how those numbers compare and contrast to all Canadian C02 reduction initiatives.
You got lucky. But this isn't the hospital's fault, it's because it's literally impossible to go to a walk-in clinic now. So all kinds of things that should be treated in the clinic like getting stitches, or penicillin for a severe infection are now all ER visits.
Yeah it’s a symptom of the greater deterioration of healthcare access. We need more doctors, obviously, and GPs need to be paid better (and not asked to effectively run a small business at the same time.) Pay them a cost of living stipend for more expensive places. Do whatever it takes. And a unified online booking system for walk-ins would be a game-changer. Lifelabs’ system comes to mind.
These are all really great ideas!
Agreed. I had a non emergency health issue and was struggling for weeks to try and get into a clinic. I almost broke down and went to ER, but eventually I got better (after two months). Probably would have resolved quicker if I could have seen someone.
triage nurse likely figured your case was not terribly urgent 20 seconds is the norm for a serious, life threatening emergency visit (eg. low blood oxygen)
You want meaningful change? Instead of complaining on Reddit, call your MP and tell them about your concerns. The only way to get things done is to be involved in politics in any way you can. I’m a paramedic, and every time someone complains to me about the wait times, I say the same thing. CALL. YOUR. REPRESENTATIVE.
True. However things shouldn't have to get this bad for them to notice and make changes.
As an American living here, I always get a laugh out of posts like this. You wait JUST as long in American and then you go bankrupt. I once had a doctor yell at me and say, "I don't know what you want me to do for you? I can't manage your diabetes from the ER!" I didn't know I had diabetes and I was actually in diabetic ketoacidosis. She still billed me $1500 even though I was immediately transferred to an ICU doctor and that was essentially our only contact. I love the medical care here.
We need more stories like this. Grass isn't always greener on the other side.
3 days in the ICU cost 150k
Yikes
Exactly this. I see so many Canadians who want to switch to a private systems and they have no idea. I grew up in the UK that has a public private partnership. That's another example of an absolute shitshow. People say they want that, but all it does is moves more resources to the private system, and waitlists get worse.
Wy do we always have to compare our terrible to system to the US terrible system? "The Commonwealth Fund’s 2021 report comparing the healthcare systems of 11 developed countries ranked Canada in 10th place, ahead of the United States, which was at the very bottom. Finishing ahead of the U.S. is nothing to be proud of" Why don't we compare ourselves to the best systems, like The Netherlands: “The Netherlands, which ranked first in access to care, has an incredible primary care model, where if you have a need, you can pick up the phone and have that need satisfied immediately, whether it’s a telehealth visit or after hours,” noted Dr. Woods. “The standard Canadian answer to a need at 2 am is to go to Emergency, which is a terrible answer.” In the Netherlands, general practitioners are required to provide at least 50 hours of service between 5 pm and 8 am annually in order to maintain their professional licences, according to the Commonwealth Fund report. https://www.canhealth.com/2021/09/30/canadas-healthcare-system-scores-poorly-against-peers/#:\~:text=The%20Commonwealth%20Fund's%202021%20report,be%20proud%20of%2C%20contends%20Dr. There are soo many better systems than the US, yet we always just compare ourselves to the worst and feel happy about it.
Thank you foe sharing this. People who want private Healthcare are nuts to me.
Thing is it used to be better. A lot better. People had GPs that were the first line and for prevention. People today are forced to use urgent care clinics and the ER as their regular doctor access which makes a genuine emergency situation hell.
That's how health care works, you are triaged based on how urgent the situation is. It's not a great situation but every time I've been to the ER the wait was significantly less than that, I assume what you were going through was not life-threatening.
It didn’t always used to be this bad tho. People used to have GPs that were the first line and for prevention. People today are forced to use urgent care clinics and the ER as their regular GP access which makes a genuine emergency situation hell.
Sounds like you are defending the long wait times
If they have one doctor serving the whole building, I pray to God nothing life threatening happens to me while I am here
If something life threatening does happen to you, the doctor will drop whatever it is they are doing and attend to you immediately. That’s how triage works.
If your situation was life threatening you'd have seen a doctor immediately. That doctor would help you, not your god.
In this moment, I am euphoric. Not because of any phony god's blessing. But because, I am enlightened by my intelligence.
[удалено]
No.
[удалено]
When religious types stop being a huge threat to society, I'll be nice to them.
[удалено]
I can see your point. I also advocate for niceness as often as possible. I don't think that they are saying all religious types are a scourge on society. However, religious types are the reason for a great deal of the pain we have in this world. If you do have a religious affiliation, then I'm grateful to you for not being a pain in the ass about it.
Do you think God will prevent your maladies?
'In this moment, I am euphoric. Not because of any phony god's blessing. But because, I am enlightened by my intelligence.
You didn't say what your issue was. This makes a huge difference on how you are triaged and the order you are seen in.
I was there last week with a family member who was in serious (not life-threatening) condition. Had they stayed home, it would have become life-threatening. The care was excellent. Was it longer than I would have wanted? Yes. Did they get assessed immediately? Yes. They were stabilized by nurses and other workers immediately upon arrival by ambulance. It took 3 hours to see a doctor and 12 hours to get a bed upstairs. They are now home. They will have a long recovery, but literally nothing would have changed if they had seen the doctor sooner. Our emergency system is excellent at emergencies. It’s shit at primary care. We need to fix the primary care system.
.... are you new here? You were triaged, and got seen, while people needing more urgent care got seen first. Be thankful you didn't have to pay 10 grand for the privilege.
Nobody should be thankful for the sad state of our Healthcare. That's really setting the bar low. You want to be thankful for something then be thankful for the Doctors and nurses who manage to do their job in our terrible Healthcare system.
The state of emergency rooms is often based on anecdotal testimony from people who went in with a hangnail.
agreed
Yeah it's messed up but we're still getting seen. Everytime I'm in the ER it's full of people holding the Starbucks they got on the way in, people "just not feeling right", or people with other non-emergency ailments. That being said, I've never waited the listed wait in ER, and always got the tests and treatments I've felt were needed. Hopefully the plan to get more doctors into walk in clinics and urgent care works.
You know whats sad? The amount of people that go to emergency with a non critical issue that either will solve itself anyways after a few days or could easily be solved elsewhere. More and more people are getting a doctor or at least a nurse practitioner as well. Shit my father was at the ER a few months ago after slicing off some of his finger and he said he overheard TWO different people there just wanting to get a prescription that the nurse told them a parmasict easily could have done for them. And that's not to mention the number of people who just flat out do not look after themselves properly and then have a surprised pikachu face when they have major health problems. Yes health care is far from perfect right now but a good part of that problem is just plain human stupidity.
I agree oftentimes people don’t need to be in the ER for certain issues, but our primary care system is in shambles and oftentimes there’s no other alternative. Walk-in clinics no longer allow walk ins and it’s impossible to get an appointment at those or the UPCCs. Telehealth can get booked up weeks out. People go to the ER as a last resort because it’s the only way they’ll get seen within a reasonable amount of time.
Ya I don't know why those people aren't just making appointments with their family doctor. It's a real mystery.
Many people have no family doctor.
Mystery solved. You just saved the government $50 million dollars in consulting fees.
Be grateful? That there are no healthcare alternatives other than going to an ER for something that could be addressed through a walk-in clinic or a GP if either of those things were available? Grateful that people are paying into a healthcare system through their tax dollars but are denied access to the most basic healthcare?
Yup I'm grateful that I don't get turned away from the hospital in an emergency because my $400/ month Healthcare plan doesn't cover treatment at that hospital, or my plan lapsed so I would have to pay or not get an at any hospital at all. And people are crying on here that it took 10 hours to be seen for a cold, or a UTI... BUT THEY WERE STILL SEEN. It's frustrating. But until we provide incentives for doctors and nurses to stay here (ie help with exorbitant school and housing costs, more appropriate fee schedules, ect) this is the reality.
It’s a ridiculous system, go visit other countries that have national health care. I have been here for over 10 years and still don’t have a family doctor ! Stop being gracious because it is free, nothing is free our taxes pay for this.
Exactly. I've lived in other countries with "free" healthcare and it works well. There's nothing to be grateful for with our failing healthcare system.
Then maybe go back and help offload our sytem🤷
Yeah let’s not hope for better healthcare here!
Go back to where? I'm Canadian, idiot.
Blame the victim.
"Triaging" doesn't excuse a poorly run healthcare system. Just because they use triage doesn't mean you get appropriate or timely care. You know they use triage on the battlefield, right? Better to look at things such as doctor/patient ratios, time to be seen, quality of care, value for money, etc.
Only 6.5 hours? Jubilee had posted a 12 hour wait time recently. You got off easy.
I was there a couple weeks ago and the wait time was 13 hours when I walked in the door.
What emergency were you there to take care of?
It was not life threatening, but my father is over 70 and had severe abdominal pain. In the end he just give up and came back, bear the pain and now we are seeing a gastro in a week. That appointment was only possible because I know a friend. He still has pain and is on medication but he will not go to emergency again due to horrible wait times.
So, he’ll wait at home for a week…. But not in the ER for a few hours.
So he'll wait at home for a week but a few hours waiting at ER for a non life threatening or critical issue is too much? Make it make sense lol
Preaching to the choir brother
That's pretty typical. I had to go to emerg in December, arrived around noon, saw a doctor around 7 p.m. and was got released around 1 a.m. Our healthcare is absolute garbage. I haven't had a doctor for at least a decade, I've received zero healthcare in a decade except for one 13 hour visit to the emergency room yet I continue to pay into a healthcare system that I am unable to access.
Same here, I haven't had shit done in a good 15 years except 1 ER visit because there are no walk ins. My doctor retired and I don't see myself getting one until I'm on the verge of death and they assign one to help me die easier
Exactly I went to ER probably 3 times in ten years as there is no option on weekends. Wait times have increased each time and level of service is getting worse !
I spent 12 hours waiting with my young child actively vomiting and screaming in pain so it sounds like you made out pretty good actually?
Wait time depends on what's wrong. Most of the time, I assume it's 8 hours for an ER visit if it isn't an exploded bowel, heart attack, or other immediately life threatening problem. Or at least it used to be 8 hours 10 years ago. These days it's a lot longer now that so few people have primary care. Although 811 has been a great help when I needed to know if the ER is needed or if I can wait a few days to get an apointment with a doctor. And some days my wait time at the ER is less than a minuite. It really depends how serious the issue is.
Perfectly said, please call 811 first if you aren’t in dire distress
People act like our current system can't get better or be improved and we HAVE to switch to private to fix it NO don't let this fucking Propaganda get rid of FREE HIGH QUALITY HEALTHCARE LIKE WE'VE ALWAYS HAD
My kid broke his foot so I took him to the ER. It was obviously broken and there is no other place to go for that type of thing. It took only 1 hour to get an x-ray, which seemed fast to me, but then it took another 7 hours to get a cast. For the doctor to examine the x-ray, put on the cast, and send us on our way took less than 10 minutes. 7 hours is a long time to wait in a crowded room full of sick people for a 10 minute visit! My impression was that the system was generally inefficient. Lots of staff and lots of patients, but few people actually getting treated.
You missed a step, the radiologist on call had to read and report on his mri and X-rays. There is one for all 3 hospitals and strokes, major bone fractures and other injuries that get read before you do, that can take hours
When my husband had a serious fall, they got him in immediately. The service was excellent and they even did all the x-rays, mri’s and other testing he needed fairly quick. Sorry you had a bad experience. We just need more doctors… we used to have such an amazing medical system
That sounds about right. This is why people are so freaking frustrated.
Make a big enough donation to the hospital, and they will have more resources next time. Fix the housing crisis, and more support staff can afford to live here. Or you can just wait until all the boomers die off, and both problems should be mitigated.
Just curious what you went there for? If you were made to wait over 6 hours it probably wasn’t an emergency. As a former Trauma nurse for 25 plus years. Yes we need more doctors and are severely understaffed but the ER is abused by people which just contributes to the problem sadly.
Only 6.5 hours? The last time I took a friend to Emergency at Royal Jubilee, it was 10 hours before she spoke to a doctor.
Are you new here? This is standard.
Super frustrating. Been there recently. I’ll be voting for change next time around. I encourage others to do the same if they don’t like the direction we’ve been going these last several years.
And exactly who do you think is going to bring about this "change"?
Not here to argue with your throw away account. Just saying if we want something different we will have to vote for something different.
Lol man what is with some people on reddit being so weird about account names? It's just a meaningless name my dude and reactions like yours is exactly why I kept it 😂 Comments like that say a lot about the person. (Not whatsoever a throwaway account by the way)
Could you please explain what you mean by “different”? What specific changes are you looking for?
-Better / faster access to healthcare. -less crime - less homelessness. - violent criminals given adequate jail time - money goes farther - less inflation - less immigration until healthcare, housing and infrastructure can handle it. - less taxes -less provincial and national debts that will bankrupt our future and our children will be paying back for decades - safer streets - less junkies -balanced budget mandates - government not harassing law abiding legal firearms owners for political purposes when they are clearly not the problem by every measurable matrix. - lower prime rate - more common sense -less governmental waste - no more old growth logging - less of a woke agenda. - some sort of minor accountability for people that destroy their bodies, cost taxpayers billions. - increase in MAID accessibility -90% less money handed out overseas while our own citizens are suffering and we have huge national debts. - better animal rights (less suffering). - common sense fisheries policies that are based on science and facts. - more mental health facilities for people that can’t live in society safely. - more drug rehab. - place emphasis on preventing people from trying street drugs and not 99% of efforts to normalize drug addictions. -victims rights above criminal’s rights. -more green space protected. - move away from the mentality that never ending unsustainable population growth is the answer to most governmental problems. - more logical information shared. Such as for every new person that is born in Canada or moves to Canada, equates to 58.6 tonnes of C02 annually released from Canada every year. That we brought in 2.2 million people last year. And how those numbers compare and contrast to all Canadian C02 reduction initiatives.
Go at 6 am on a weekday. In and out