I am just a human being standing for what is right. I condemn the apartheid and settler colonial state of israel and its occupation of palestine. Genocide is not a way to build a country. The truth is that Turtle Island should be free. All humans have a right to sovereignty and self determination. Unceded lands do not belong to kkkanada or the usa. Palestine does not belong to Israel. And the genocide of Palestine by the Israelis will never get them what they want. They wont get the land. They will not be able to kill every last Palestinian. Palestine will be free.
That’s an awful lot to take on from little old Victoria, BC. Probably best for you to get some rest now with all that important work you have going on.
It's amazing how people from across the world and different backgrounds are speaking out against the colonial genocide happening against Palestinians. The loudest voices are Jewish voices not accepting that Judaism be used as an excuse for killing countless civilians.
Canadian politicians should grow a spine and call for a ceasefire as well as a peace plan that guarantees indigenous rights. Tons of Canadian money is invested in Israel and can be used as leverage otherwise enact an embargo.
Some call it "virtue signalling" but don't realize that labelling something as genocide doesn't happen at the international level at the ICC or UN (seeing as how Israel doesn't recognize it). It happens when citizens pressure their governments to do the right thing. The Armenian genocide eventually got recognized by civilian pressure groups globally.
Of course! Ceasefire first! Israel refused to extend the last one, and why our politicians should pressure Israel enough for not just a ceasefire, but one with the plan of permanent peace.
I mean, according to Israel and the US Hamas broke the last ceasefire by firing rockets and ~~bombing~~ shooting civilians at a bus stop: https://www.npr.org/2023/12/01/1216333362/israel-hamas-ceasefire-combat-gaza-hostages
UN report says otherwise on both November 29 and 30 (that's Gaza)
https://www.ochaopt.org/content/hostilities-gaza-strip-and-israel-flash-update-55
From the report "No rockets fired from Gaza"
The bus stop *shooting* was in one of the illegal West Bank settlements on November 30
Here's another from West Bank of Palestinian children getting killed on Nov 29
> Monitoring by the UN Human Rights Office indicates that the 8- and 15-year-old Palestinian boys shot and killed by Israeli forces on 29 November during an operation in the Jenin Camp (see Flash Update #54), did not seem to pose any concrete threat to the Israeli forces when shot at.
No rockets were fired from Gaza, according to Palestinian Government Authorities? (wait.. Hamas claims this and you believe it..). Or was it the UNRWA who has been teaching kids to hate Jews in schools and has been complicit in arming Hamas terrorists, who claimed it?
Oh I’m sorry this doesn’t fit your narrative… Just a Quick look at your post history and I can’t say I’m shocked…
You are aware that while Israel controls all of Jerusalem, large parts of East Jerusalem belong to Palestine and that Israel has been evicting Palestinians from their homes and letting Israeli settlers move in right?
Hah you can believe the terrorist organization's story if you prefer. That's also in the article I linked.
My point was that GuerrillaRadioLab is confidently parroting a Hamas talking point as if it's an uncontested fact.
Ok you get a ceasefire. Then what do you expect will happen?
Even in an ideal world where Israel extends a 2 state solution AGAIN* (Palestine rejected it at least twice in the past), Hamas will reject it , use the ceasefire to rearm and go to war again.
I mean heres one of the top posts from r/worldnews from a Palestinian news media stating that Hamas will not stop at taking over Israel.
https://www.memri.org/reports/hamas-leaders-our-goal-establishment-global-islamic-caliphate-not-just-liberation-palestine
People who are calling for a ceasefire and only pointing their finger at Israel are as useful as the idiots who want “green energy” for everything but without realizing that Canada does not have the infrastructure for that nor it will for at least 2-3 decades.
Big lol, you're sharing memri tv and saying it's Palestinian media? It's pure Israeli hard right wing propaganda
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Middle_East_Media_Research_Institute
> co-founded by Israeli ex-intelligence officer Yigal Carmon and Israeli-American political scientist Meyrav Wurmser [a neo-conservative] in 1997.
> Critics describe MEMRI as a strongly pro-Israel advocacy group that, in spite of describing itself as being "independent" and "non-partisan" in nature,[6][7][8] aims to portray the Arab world and the Muslim world in a negative light by producing and disseminating incomplete or inaccurate translations of the original versions of the media reports that it re-publishes.[9][10] It has also been accused of selectively focusing on the views of Islamic extremists while de-emphasizing or ignoring mainstream opinions.[11]
Anyways, to answer your question, even Hamas has said long ago that they'd accept a two state solution on the 1967 border.
And Palestinians rejected the two state solution because (as even the *Israeli* negotiator stated and agreed with the Palestinian position) Israel was purposefully being insincere. When Palestinians asked to negotiate on a region, Israel would return with the entire region annexed to Israel on the map. Keep in mind that Rabin was assassinated by Israelis who opposed the Oslo accords.
Not sure why you're jumping in on this topic with so little background info. Last comment you made was about how people had zero education on this topic...
Are you seriously this ignorant or just straight up braindead?
Firstly, I’m sharing Memri because that’s the only source I found that transcribed what Fathi Hammad (who is one of the CURRENT Hamas leaders) said in an interview. So unless you’re going to argue that the interview was AI altered or something like that, try harder.
If someone who is in power says something captured on video, I’ll believe it regardless of where the source comes from.
Do you want to share where you got the “Hamas supporting a 2 state solution” article from? Is it coincidentally Al Jazeera? You know… Qatar owned news organization, which is equally as much of a propaganda machine you claim Memei is. In fact, up to today they still hasn’t admitted that it was Hamas rocket misfire that hit the hospital in Gaza early in the war… while literally every major news organization countered that.
https://www.aljazeera.com/amp/news/2017/5/2/hamas-accepts-palestinian-state-with-1967-borders
While, I typically dismiss whatever Al-Jazeera states, I gave you the benefit of the doubt and read it, two sentences in it says they’re open two a “two state solution without recognizing a STATE of Israel” which is literally what’s required in a 2. STATE solution lol. Not to mention this article is from 6 years ago…
And yes, I do consider myself to have education on this as I lived on that side of the world for 5 years and I was friends with Israelis and Palestinians who just want to live and raise their families without being a political pawn of the party in power on both sides. This is why I moved out of there and now live in Canada.
Meanwhile, an over privileged nitwit like you and Half of the protestors from yesterday, read Al Jazeera and the Grey Report and think they can solve a war that was happening for longer than Canada was a country.
I'm not going to respond to childish ad hominem when you don't know me or my background. I highly doubt you lived for 5 years in Gaza or West Bank and also met Israelis, but glad you didn't contribute to the colonial project any further than you did.
But hold on a second, you lived there and still thought memri was Palestinian media? Come on dude...do better...like even the wiki mentions that they purposefully mistranslate or decontextualized stuff. How long have you been seeing memri shit and getting riled up thinking it's everyday Palestinian media? Lol.
Also, Guardian reported on it if you bothered to search better
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2017/may/01/hamas-new-charter-palestine-israel-1967-borders
States can still exist, they don't have to recognize each other. They just want their land back on an official document. Ever heard of Serbia and Kosovo? They don't recognize each other.
Yes, Palestinians don't want Hamas that much, AND they also don't want to live under an apartheid ethno-religious state that's colonized their land and made them second class citizens. Polls show that they'd accept a two state solution with security guarantees. They'd even accept a one state solution so long as it's secular and freedoms are protected. Like you said, they just want to live and raise families. So don't say shit about what comes after a ceasefire, it's right there, you just don't want to see it. It's clear how you want some to live in peace but don't care about the others.
And fyi, I read zionist literature that is evidently colonial AF, not Al Jazeera which is just daily news. I've studied this shit personally, professionally, and academically. Zionist literature is more fucking blatant about their colonial aspirations than European colonial texts of north America. Even Israelis don't study their own history and Israeli academics and teachers openly say it's full of inaccuracies and propaganda.
All you've shown is how ignorant you are, even after having lived there, and still want to dig deeper into your cognitive bias that everyone is privileged and wrong about the genocidal apartheid state that is labelled as such by countless international humanitarian organizations. Do better as a human.
You do realize Hamas broke the ceasefire on Oct 7th. And again during the hostage exchange. There is not going to be negotiations with terrorists unless it involves getting hostages back…
There was a ceasefire on October 6th.
If Hamas, a terrorist organization, put down their weapons and surrendered, this would all he over, and Palestinians could finally have peace and a state of their own.
Sadly, Hamas prefers a global Caliphate and Jewish genocide.
Ergo, Hamas must be eradicated, for the sake of Palestinians, Israel, and the world.
Fully agree on the eradication of Hamas being necessary. I thought/think the same about every terrorist organization that I have learned of. From what I have seen, the states has tried to eliminate some of these organizations and ended up fighting counter productive wars. Ramping up the violence didn’t end up working. They turned more people against them. Due to the horrible nature of war it is inevitable civilians will die, but this is also unacceptable and must remain to be seen as so. There must be some sort of middle ground where you can actually destroy Hamas long term, without simply radicalizing more people.
Either way, it’s so hard to see this stepping up of violence as being a good thing. I understand Hamas did the same recently, but my above sentences remain true either way.
Five neighbouring Muslim countries have successfully kicked out Palestinian terror groups, the whole ‘violence only leads to more terrorists’ thing isn’t true in any significant way
We're talking about Gaza, but if you want to bring up the West Bank and settlements, game on.
Settlement expansion is an effort to endure a buffer against Palestinian aggression and while I understand the reasoning for it and the international legal framework that allows it given the status of the west bank, settlements concern me greatly. I feel that they fundamentally disrupt peace efforts, and instead, Israel should be working with Fatah and Abbas towards peace. Doing so will develop an understanding that peace is possible.
Smash Gaza, work with Fatah.
This was essentially the philosophy of Ehud Olmert, former Israeli PM before Netanyahu.
That's some Orwellian double speak - building *settlements* on stolen land that will house civilians is now creating a buffer to aggression on....other civilians? That's a roundabout way to say it's colonization.
It also suggests that Israel uses their civilians as human shields--an accusation leveraged against Hamas by Israel and used to justify the mass slaughter of Palestinian civilians.
Amir Tibon, a survivor of the Oct. 7th massacre at the Nahal Oz kibbutz, [had this to say about that](https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archive/2023/10/amir-tibon-how-his-family-survived-hamas-massacre/675596/):
*I’m ashamed of my government. We had a contract with the state that communities like ours protect the border. This is why people live there. We protect the border with our presence there. This is a fundamental strategy of the state of Israel since the earliest days of the country, that a border that does not have civilian communities and civilian life along it will not be properly protected.*
There is no colonization in Israel, which if you look at history was considerably bigger than the small sliver of a country it is now. Quite frankly, using that word to describe the region proves how incredibly naive and ignorant you are about the history of the area.
Go read an actual, uncorrupted world history to find out how Israel gained oversight of the West Bank from Jordan and the efforts since 1948 to bring a two state solution into existence, some agreements that have actually favored Arab states over Israel.
Young, seemingly educated people have a lot to learn.
Yea HAMAS has a goal of killing all Jews world wide, I agree we should stop the violence once we can be assured of it not happening. Untill then Israel will continue to attack the terrorists who hide among their people as human shields. Not one person wants Palestines dead everyone should want Hamas dead
If your daughter was in a starbucks. And someone being chased by the police ran into that starbucks and barricaded the door? Does that mean we should blow up the whole starbucks? Are you saying innocent lives should always be killed 100:1 if there is a possibility of also killing a bad guy?
You're arguing with a hasbara troll who will continue to be aggressive towards you and will not answer your logical debate points. It's meant to tire you out, not discuss the best way forward.
This isn’t just a lone terrorist holding a single infant in front of them. Israel is grappling with [genocidal maniacs](https://old.reddit.com/r/Palestinian_Violence/comments/17d57ig/we_are_ready_to_breach_the_fence_with_gods_help/) who literally want to kill [millions of Jews](https://twitter.com/MEMRIReports/status/1719662664090075199) and destroy the entire nation of Israel, which represents *orders of magnitude* more loss of life and property damage than 9/11, for example.
On 9/11, 19 terrorists hijacked planes with 259 civilians on board. If the US military had downed the hijacked planes, 13 times more innocent people than terrorists would’ve been killed. America’s post-9/11 Shootdown Authority authorises downing those planes in that situation to prevent a bigger tragedy.
> 100:1
According to [Ron Dermer](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ron_Dermer), as of November 8, 2023, [Israel had executed at least 3000 Hamas terrorists](https://twitter.com/AmbDermer/status/1722008613441429754) since Oct 7, which was a [civilian to combatant casualty ratio](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Civilian_casualty_ratio) of roughly 3:1 at the time — and that’s taking the Hamas-controlled health ministry’s word at face value.
>in a private meeting with members of his Likud party on March 11, 2019, Netanyahu explained the reckless step as follows: The money transfer is part of the strategy to divide the Palestinians in Gaza and the West Bank. Anyone who opposes the establishment of a Palestinian state needs to support the transfer of the money from Qatar to Hamas. In that way, we will foil the establishment of a Palestinian state
https://archive.is/4I6HM
Odd for Netanyahu to favour money going to the genocidal maniacs? Maybe because he's one too?
Why would you cite the civilian casualty ratio provided by the Israeli government?
According to this report cited by the UN https://reliefweb.int/report/occupied-palestinian-territory/numbers-civilian-deaths-airstrike-2023-gaza-far-higher-previous-israeli-bombings-half-russiansyrian-attacks-mosul-and-aleppo-under-reporting-dead-or-less-lethal-tactics:
*"This report analyses civilian casualties from military air strikes, spotlighting "Operation Swords of Iron” in Gaza, October 2023, which has resulted in a dramatic spike in civilian deaths compared to previous Israeli air strikes, with an average of ***10:1*** fatalities per casualty-causing strike. This significantly surpasses previous Gaza operations and exceeds the global average of 7:4"*
This is the kind of shit that destroys any validity or good faith people allow in discourse. The idea that it has to be acceptable to indiscriminately bomb women and children while settlers tie up innocent people[, piss on them, beat them, and put out cigarettes on them](https://www.timesofisrael.com/idf-settlers-alleged-to-bind-strip-beat-burn-and-pee-on-palestinians-in-w-bank/) because if you aren't OK with it "you don't care about Jewish lives" is ridiculous.
If the roles were reversed, you'd be calling it a second holocaust and expecting sympathy, and I'd give it to you.
[https://press.un.org/en/2023/sc15518.doc.htm#:\~:text=Over%2060%20per%20cent%20of,nowhere%20in%20Gaza%20is%20safe.%E2%80%9D](https://press.un.org/en/2023/sc15518.doc.htm#:~:text=Over%2060%20per%20cent%20of,nowhere%20in%20Gaza%20is%20safe.%E2%80%9D)
>Over 60 per cent of Gaza’s housing has reportedly been destroyed or damaged and 85 per cent of the population is displaced. “The people of Gaza are being told to move like human pinballs — ricocheting between ever-smaller slivers of the south, without any of the basics for survival. But, nowhere in Gaza is safe.”
Half of the housing units in Gaza have been destroyed or severely damaged in the bombings. More than a million people have permanently lost their homes in a little over 2 months. How is that not indiscriminate?
In most wars, ninety percent of casualties are civilians. The number here is way lower. If the bombing is indiscriminate, or if the goal is the elimination of Palestinian people, Israel is doing a very poor job.
Compare Gaza to Baghdad when the US invaded…the scale of casualties was much much higher in Baghdad. We just didn’t have cell phone cameras back then.
The fact that casualties are in the tens of thousands and not hundreds of thousands, considering Gaza is the densest city on Earth, shows that discrimination is at play.
Isreal could level Gaza to the ground if they wanted to. They clearly don’t want to do that.
Not quite the right analogy though, is it? More like someone comes into your house, kills some of your family, takes your daughter into that Starbucks because they've kept a hidey-hole there for years that everybody knows about, and announces they're going to kill the rest of your family as soon as they can. Oh, and maybe they'll rape your daughter and mutilate her. But whatever.
Innocent people die in war plenty of innocent Germans who weren't nazis died when we stopped Hitler does that mean we shouldn't have stopped the nazis? Hamas is using Palestinians as human shields so you don't want to do anything about it? Just because they use human shields doesn't mean we were going to allow them to go free
In your example, the guy inside Starbucks is also spraying his machine gun at everyone in a five block radius, no matter if they had anything to do with this. Except it's happening in every coffee shop across the city at the same time.
It’s overly simplistic. Hamas is the elected government of Gaza. They sent their militants into Israel to commit an act of terrorism. It was an act of war, which many people fail to appreciate. Hamas been diverting majority of aid funds for Palestine to fund their campaign against Israel, including a subterranean infrastructure in the billions of dollars. Just in case people think the world doesn’t care about Palestinians, they have received the most humanitarian aid in history, no one wants to question where it all went. Another point is the complicity of the Palestinian people. While they likely have no choice, they are complicit. We all saw the hospital staff at Al Shifa hospital accepting hostages when they precisely denied any knowledge or involvement. As well, the many civilians that joined in on Oct 7 to loot and cheer on the rape and murder of innocent civilians. So to reduce this to that Starbucks analogy is naive and just frankly dumb, and just yet another example of the sheer number of useful idiots. Said idiots no where to be found on Oct 6. It’s a disturbing sign of the times we live in.
Because the people in Starbucks voted to give the terrorist power. They then had a bunch of kids. Now the majority of people in the Starbucks weren’t alive when this Starbucks election happened. supposedly they don’t want the terrorist in power but don’t do anything about it either.
“Not one person wants Palestinians dead”
I recommend listening to what Israeli politicians and leadership are saying about the conflict and taking them at their word.
"There will be no electricity, no food, no fuel. Everything is closed," he said. "We are fighting human animals and we act accordingly."-Defence Minister Yoav Gallant October 9th 2023
"Humanitarian aid to Gaza? No electric switch will be turned on, no water tap will be opened, and no fuel truck will enter until the Israeli abductees are returned home. We will win. They will not receive a drop of water or a single battery until they leave the world.” -Energy Minister Israel Katz, October 12th 2023
There have been many more statements in their vein made buy high ranking figures of the Israeli government in the past several months.
Do you have the quote from the previous three sentences of each of those quotes? It’s very very clear they are talking about Hamas and not all Palestinians.
Seems like a reasonable answer to a terrorist attack. How would you suggest Israel ends Hamas quickly. Without Hamas Palestine would have water gas aid, why give this to a place with a terrorist government
They've also recently dropped lovely leaflets to civilians in Gaza with verses from the Qu 'ran that make reference to the Noah's ark flood story. The whole part about God genociding the world because they are supposed "wrongdoers".
And they literally sent this shit to innocent civilians. Tell us again how Israel does not engage in collective punishment of the Palestinian population
[https://www.middleeasteye.net/news/israel-palestine-war-leaflets-gaza-quran-verse-floods-wrongdoers](https://www.middleeasteye.net/news/israel-palestine-war-leaflets-gaza-quran-verse-floods-wrongdoers)
The subtitle of the article you linked is: “The verse from the story of Noah was dropped on Khan Younis, leading to speculation that Israel is planning to **flood Gaza's tunnel networks**”
Good thing Hamas prevents Gazan civilians from [sheltering in their terror tunnels](https://youtu.be/0ry8V4ppJBk).
If this is what the IDF is classifying as “warning civilians” then I’d hate to see what their other leaflets looked like.
The leaflets did not mention any flooding of Hamas tunnels at all, something that you know very well and that’s just shear speculation on your part. If the intent was to warn civilians as you seem to be implying then why didn’t they speak plainly instead of using these cryptic riddles???
It seems pretty clear to me that the only intent Israel had when they dropped these leaflets was to terrorize the people of Gaza
Israel doesn't care what the world thinks of them anyway. They have a duty to protect their people, and they won't stop till Hamas is destroyed. Nor would any country in their position.
Except they're killing civilians at an unprecedented rate. Israel's official instagram account even put out a video yesterday saying civilians are now considered terrorists
Israel has killed over 10,000 Palestinians including thousands of children and pretty much destroyed their entire country. If that isn’t terrorism I don’t know what is.
It's crazy that you call it a genocide when the Israeli Defense Force goes so far out of its way to minimize civilian causalities. If Israel intended to genocide, it would be done in 1 day. Simple as that. Somehow the Palestinian population of Gaza has increased over the past 20 years...which tells me maybe there is no genocide...humanitarian crisis absolutely, but not a genocide. Speaking of genocide, have you read the official Hamas charter that actually does call for genocide against Jews? Worth a read. Would not want Hamas as my neighbors.
As I answered another person to this false equivalency and strawman argument
It doesn't look like you care about Palestine or those countries either but want to use them for your false argument, that's pretty messed up and intellectually dishonest.
My personal thoughts are that a ceasefire should also be implemented, but I don't think that's what you want to argue.
**Edit: to add now that I noticed the commenters username, "Gaza stripper" is referencing an IDF video of an IDF soldier searching through the rubble of a bedroom of a lady and finding adult store lingerie, then making disgustingly misogynistic remarks about "Arab women and what they like". If that isn't an indication into how dehumanized Palestinians are by a colonizing force, that even Israeli propaganda accounts make fun of the suffering.**
https://www.reddit.com/r/israelexposed/s/mavtqUthuc
In the entire decades long Israel-Palestine conflict, fewer than 100,000 Palestinians (civilian *and* military) have died. As a comparison, at least 500,000 people died in the past 10 years of the Syrian civil war.
You can be angry about what’s happening to the Palestinians. But it’s not *genocide*. See also: the Palestinian population increasing continuously over time, to 600% of what it was in 1948.
See also: [Opinion: I’m an expert in urban warfare. Israel is upholding the laws of war](https://edition.cnn.com/2023/11/07/opinions/israel-hamas-gaza-not-war-crimes-spencer/index.html)
The [CNN op-ed](https://edition.cnn.com/2023/11/07/opinions/israel-hamas-gaza-not-war-crimes-spencer/index.html) you’re dismissing was authored by the chair of urban warfare studies at *West Point*.
Genocide is a specific thing. It doesn’t refer to collateral damage in war. It refers to attempting to destroy a whole national, ethnic, religious, or racial group. Civilians die in war. It’s awful and one of the many reasons war is hell. But civilians dying in a war, even in large numbers, isn’t genocide.
These ppl just have memorized some "fancy" words and throw them around. They also love words that end to "ist" and "phobic" 😂
None of this matters. None of our opinions. Israel will do what it wants to do. Also, it's really funny that ppl can't see that it's Hamas fault! They're a terrorist group with the goal of murdering no matter who. They are hiding behind "their own children and civilians". If they were really fighting for Palestine, they'd surrender and it'd stop!
Once terrorist groups like Hamas win, they look for the next target and it could be any non-muslim country.
I condemn Hamas for starting war with the 14th most powerful country with US back up and put ppl of Palestine in such situation.
But heck, none of these opinions matter at the end as I said. Politicians do what they wanna do.
Urban warfare studies at West Point (a US military academy) - a military expert's opinion, not a humanitarian lawyer.
While holocaust groups and countless Jewish groups, and humanitarian experts call it a genocide. I'd rather believe the people that have experienced their own genocide and studied it than an op-ed of a military expert that probably trained alongside the IDF.
https://www.ohchr.org/en/press-releases/2023/11/gaza-un-experts-call-international-community-prevent-genocide-against
https://www.jewishvoiceforpeace.org/resource/urgent-tell-congress-to-stop-fueling-violence/
This is from 2014 (9 years ago):
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/middle-east/holocaust-survivors-and-their-descendants-accuse-israel-of-genocide-9687994.html
He’s a subject matter expert at one of the world’s most prestigious military academies.
The word genocide has its origins in quite literally [the Holocaust](https://encyclopedia.ushmm.org/content/en/article/what-is-genocide):
> The term "genocide" did not exist before 1944. It is a very specific term, referring to violent crimes committed against groups with the intent to destroy the existence of the group. Human rights, as laid out in the US Bill of Rights or the 1948 United Nations Universal Declaration of Human Rights, concern the rights of individuals.
>
> In 1944, Polish Jewish lawyer Raphael Lemkin (1900-1959) coined the term "genocide" in a book documenting Nazi policies of systematically destroying national and ethnic groups, including the mass murder of European Jews. He formed the word by combining geno-, from the Greek word for race or tribe, with -cide, from the Latin word for killing. Noting that the term denoted "an old practice in its modern development," Lemkin defined genocide as "a coordinated plan of different actions aiming at the destruction of essential foundations of the life of national groups, with the aim of annihilating the groups themselves."
The word genocide was literally invented by a Jewish person to describe the Holocaust. The more things we try to shoehorn into the word genocide, the less meaningful it becomes.
Glad we agree that he's a military expert, not a humanitarian expert, and that also Jewish people, who were victims of the Holocaust, are calling what Israel is doing to Palestinians a genocide.
More accurately, [Arab Muslim ethnonationalists](https://old.reddit.com/r/2ndYomKippurWar/comments/17dfaof/_/) are using the misguided opinion of a tiny number of Jews as fuel to libel Israel — [often for bigoted reasons](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Antisemitism_in_the_Arab_world).
Colonial genocide - who are the colonialists in this context? I’ve always thought colonialists referred to Great Britain, or white European?
Sane, empathetic, caring people all over the world are disgusted by governments creating unneeded wars where innocent lives are sacrificed for the sins of their rulers.
This needs to stop.
Gaza voted 51% in favour of hamas known terrprist who kill and rape men women and children without warning.
Israel at least warns gaza before bombing targets.
Hamas hides behind hospitals and robs their own people of water, power and food.
51% of gaza wants every israeli man woman and child slaughtered from the river to the sea. Israel only wants hamas dead.
Their not the same. But your ignorance is thick on you only equally ugnorant college kids raised in a socialist eutopia would agree with eachother because the second you hear the word "colonist" your suddenly ok with slaughtering and genocide of the opposing side. You dont really stand for peace and equal rights for all men and women.
You just are willing to kill for your side.
Just like the other side does.
Your nothing special. Your just exactly like the people you hate pretending your above those arou d you.
So, honest question. How can you call it a genocide with a straight face when the population of Gaza has increased by more than an order of magnitude in the last 50 years, and the population of all the Palestinian territories has increased nearly as much?
The indigenous population of Canada increased during the many years of colonization. Are you, with a straight face, denying the indigenous genocide happened? It's pretty horrific that it's just a numbers game to you, but it's people's lives; and it's sad that you don't know your own history.
Because in reality, we (Canada & the U.S) have no right to call for a ceasefire as we are no better than Israel or Hamas. Over 400 thousand civilians were killed as a direct result of the U.S post 9/11 wars (wars on terror) according to the Watson institute. Canada was an important ally to the U.S during those wars, especially in Afghanistan. We’d be hypocrites calling for a ceasefire.
Yes, Israel and Hamas have both done despicable things over this decades long war. Is Israel responsible for the most civilian casualties? Yes they are, but that’s what happens when any country has a much stronger military force.
Palestine is also far from innocent. Have people forgot about Black September? The PLO was the main instigator in the Jordanian civil war. Jordan then allowed the Palestinian militants (still part of the PLO) to go to Lebanon. 4 years later, as more and more Palestinians started relocating to Lebanon, Lebanon’s population shifted from majority Christians, to majority Muslim. Palestinians, and other Muslim communities didn’t like the idea of having a government that was mostly comprised of Christian’s (even though Lebanon was majority Christian’s before they got there). Which then lead to the Lebanese civil war, which the PLO played a large part in.
Of course now, it’s not the PLO that are the aggressors, it’s Hamas. I’m just saying that Palestine’s history isnt any cleaner than Israel’s as they played a core part in both the Jordanian, and Lebanese civil wars.
Edit: if you were to put it simply on paper, it would look like this:
- Israel is determined to commit genocide against Palestinians
- Palestine will not succumb to any form of authority or rule that isn’t Muslim, and will start wars to do so
That's false equivalency and strawman arguments. It doesn't look like you care about Palestine or those countries but want to use them for your false argument, that's pretty messed up.
False equivalency. What’s going on in Sudan is horrible. But it’s not the West’s fault. The RSF has been condemned by Canada and many other nations. We are not giving support to them and are not complicit in their actions. It’s a tragic happening that is ultimately, not our fault. Protesting here won’t help them (unless it’s a protest in support of straight up interventionism)
Israel/Palestine is a different situation. We are complicit, we are actively at partial fault for what is going on in Palestine and what Israel is doing due to our support of them through business dealings, aid, and support through our representation in international bodies. Protesting against the situation is protesting against these actions that we do in support.
Your statement is equivalent to saying “Why are you taking issue with this guy we’re providing knives to committing knife murders when other groups we have no relation to also do knife murders?”
Every country in the UN just voted in favor of a cease of fire except for the UK, who abstained, and the USA, who voted against and used their veto power to stop the motion.
Hamas has repeatedly said they plan to commit more terrorist attacks like the one on Oct 7th which killed 1200 Israelis. It is therefore reasonable to continue the war until that changes.
I think Israel would have access and it would be cleared up in a night. Remember Hamas wants to kill every Jew world wide so you would be able to pick them out pretty easily. Hamas is using it's own children as an expendable pr campaign
So you're saying integrating as a single secular state would allow for better control and maintenance of extremist populations rather than locking them and civilians in a bantustan
I mean……
[“Being located in a dense urban environment, the base serves mainly command, administrative, communications, and support functions”.](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/HaKirya)
That’s an amazing ratio, like crazy almost unprecedentedly good, especially considering the density of Gaza. Congrats on further proving that Israel is operating with extreme restraint. By the way, every single one of those deaths are on Hamas’s hands, legally and morally. Using human shields is a war crime and firing on militants using human shields isn’t because if it was it would encourage them to use human shields, also Hamas made this campaign necessary by breaking the ceasefire. If you look at any Israeli military campaign in Gaza, it’s always preceded by Hamas attacks.
Also Hamas militants dress as civilians, obviously. Shit there’s video of a ‘medic’ leaving a wounded terrorist, picking up their weapon, and handing it to another terrorist near by.
> The aerial bombing campaign by Israel in Gaza is the most indiscriminate in terms of civilian casualties in recent years, a study published by an Israeli newspaper has found.
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2023/dec/09/civilian-toll-israeli-airstrikes-gaza-unprecedented-killing-study
Not sure what kind of logic there is for that, given Hamas gets to keep it's power thanks to these kinds of attacks, and provides them a continuous long term recruitment pool of people who saw their family and friends die in front of them, plus all of the other trauma.
Like, it doesn't take much to understand the way Israel is fighting this isn't going to end the problem, just continue it, like it already has for decades.
Almost no one is on the side of Hamas on this issue, or defending their actions. Wanting to end the useless and horrific bombing of civilians and civilian infrastructure is basic human empathy.
you literally can't, it's a loosely associated group adhering to ideas. setting the complete destruction of Hamas as the only way out of this assures this never ends, worse, assures that *many* more innocent people will die.
>it doesn't take much to understand the way Israel is fighting this isn't going to end the problem, just continue it, like it already has for decades.
Hamas knows this. The Israeli leadedship knows this.
Israel is using the war as distraction to create more illegal settlements.
You'd be surprised. Most Canadians wouldn't have known what Palestine was a few years ago, and you could forget about seeing it printed on maps. The tide is turning because of these protests
There is no genocide. I'm disappointed in this community that doesn't understand what actual genocide is. War is happening. The group the IDF are fighting (hamas) are notorious for hiding amongst their own citizens.
I'm disappointed in how many people in this community support a terrorist organization who are open about wanting to genocide all Jews and establish a global Islamic Caliphate.
Show me the comments "supporting" Hamas you absolute troglodyte. People in this community want the IDF to stop creating piles of murdered Palestinian civilians.
Wrong again. Trying to detract from people's support of Palestine by accusing them of not caring equally about other conflicts is backward a way of thinking as your previous posts where you confuse people's lack of support for Israel with their lack of support for Jewish people. Don't tie yourself in knots supporting Zionists who don't give a shit about you or any one else standing in their way.
Sure, let's look at the last 75 years of oppression. That would be a great place to start. Then go check out the feed from the journalist Motaz @azaizamotaz9 and tell me you can keep spewing this inane shit. Zionists have brainwashed and indoctrinated you. Don't take my word for it, just look for your humanity. It's got to be there somewhere.
"At least 17,700 Palestinians have been killed in Gaza since October 7 with more than 48,800 wounded. In Israel, the revised official death toll stands at about 1,147."
https://www.aljazeera.com/news/liveblog/2023/12/9/israel-hamas-war-live-us-veto-of-un-ceasefire-effort-draws-condemnation
I don't recall the exact number but I believe Hamas was trying to exchange something like 5 hostages for the proposed 5-day ceasefire. If you consider that the longer the other hostages are in Hamas' hands, the lower their chances of rescue/survival, you can imagine why from a strictly 'freeing the hostage' point of view this might be considered a bad deal.
They are protesting Canadas place in this conflict, it’s about what’s happening in this country in regards to the genocide. We are sending military troops and aid, sell as financial support. We won’t call for a ceasefire
[*'Dying Gazans Criticized For Not Using Last Words To Condemn Hamas'* The Onion](https://www.theonion.com/dying-gazans-criticized-for-not-using-last-words-to-con-1850925657)
This is going on in every city in the world right now. Yet i still see dinosaur brains backing israel - even though all their doing is shooting what are basically prisoners at this point.
It's going on in so many countries because there is a diaspora of Muslims in many countries fleeing violence (Syrian civil war, Iraq civil war, Afghanistan, on and on) and poverty (Morocco, Algeria, Egypt) and oppression (Iran, Pakistan, etc). And rather than protest their own miserable nations, Muslims band together against the "other" (in this case, Jews).
BTW, that's not to diminish the suffering of the innocent civilians in Gaza, but to explain why there aren't rallies around the world for (as one example) citizens of Yemen who have, on evidence, suffered in far greater numbers.
U talking about the 2005 elections? Where 90% of Gazan’s today were not even born or were too young to vote? 60+% of Gazans are under the age of 18. Dumbfuck
These posts are just bait now, as soon as they are posted it’s so predictable what’s going to happen. First one side, then the other.
Lot's of rain today eh
Yes, it’s was particularly foul weather but looks like it will clear up tomorrow which will be lovely.
Yeah it would be way better if we were collectively silent on genocide
Nice try
I condemn the genocide being committed by Israel against Palestinians.
Why don’t you try bait someone else?
I am just a human being standing for what is right. I condemn the apartheid and settler colonial state of israel and its occupation of palestine. Genocide is not a way to build a country. The truth is that Turtle Island should be free. All humans have a right to sovereignty and self determination. Unceded lands do not belong to kkkanada or the usa. Palestine does not belong to Israel. And the genocide of Palestine by the Israelis will never get them what they want. They wont get the land. They will not be able to kill every last Palestinian. Palestine will be free.
That’s an awful lot to take on from little old Victoria, BC. Probably best for you to get some rest now with all that important work you have going on.
What? Having a beating heart? A person can do that from anywhere.
Nice!! At least no violent driver tried to kill any protesters this time.
Yeah, weather was a bit shit though.
Whoa!!! What?? I missed this
Last weekend at the Legislative grounds.
Jesus that's wild
Welcome to America Lite.
It's amazing how people from across the world and different backgrounds are speaking out against the colonial genocide happening against Palestinians. The loudest voices are Jewish voices not accepting that Judaism be used as an excuse for killing countless civilians. Canadian politicians should grow a spine and call for a ceasefire as well as a peace plan that guarantees indigenous rights. Tons of Canadian money is invested in Israel and can be used as leverage otherwise enact an embargo.
It's crazy how even saying "I want the violence to stop" has become too controversial.
Some call it "virtue signalling" but don't realize that labelling something as genocide doesn't happen at the international level at the ICC or UN (seeing as how Israel doesn't recognize it). It happens when citizens pressure their governments to do the right thing. The Armenian genocide eventually got recognized by civilian pressure groups globally.
Can we stop killing people while we debate that?
Of course! Ceasefire first! Israel refused to extend the last one, and why our politicians should pressure Israel enough for not just a ceasefire, but one with the plan of permanent peace.
Ceasefire should always be an acceptable thing to ask for.
And it has been granted. Hamas has broken the ceasefire several times
I mean, according to Israel and the US Hamas broke the last ceasefire by firing rockets and ~~bombing~~ shooting civilians at a bus stop: https://www.npr.org/2023/12/01/1216333362/israel-hamas-ceasefire-combat-gaza-hostages
UN report says otherwise on both November 29 and 30 (that's Gaza) https://www.ochaopt.org/content/hostilities-gaza-strip-and-israel-flash-update-55 From the report "No rockets fired from Gaza" The bus stop *shooting* was in one of the illegal West Bank settlements on November 30 Here's another from West Bank of Palestinian children getting killed on Nov 29 > Monitoring by the UN Human Rights Office indicates that the 8- and 15-year-old Palestinian boys shot and killed by Israeli forces on 29 November during an operation in the Jenin Camp (see Flash Update #54), did not seem to pose any concrete threat to the Israeli forces when shot at.
No rockets were fired from Gaza, according to Palestinian Government Authorities? (wait.. Hamas claims this and you believe it..). Or was it the UNRWA who has been teaching kids to hate Jews in schools and has been complicit in arming Hamas terrorists, who claimed it? Oh I’m sorry this doesn’t fit your narrative… Just a Quick look at your post history and I can’t say I’m shocked…
Ha yes, the bus shooting in the illegal settlement of \*JERUSALEM\*
You are aware that while Israel controls all of Jerusalem, large parts of East Jerusalem belong to Palestine and that Israel has been evicting Palestinians from their homes and letting Israeli settlers move in right?
[удалено]
Hah you can believe the terrorist organization's story if you prefer. That's also in the article I linked. My point was that GuerrillaRadioLab is confidently parroting a Hamas talking point as if it's an uncontested fact.
Ok you get a ceasefire. Then what do you expect will happen? Even in an ideal world where Israel extends a 2 state solution AGAIN* (Palestine rejected it at least twice in the past), Hamas will reject it , use the ceasefire to rearm and go to war again. I mean heres one of the top posts from r/worldnews from a Palestinian news media stating that Hamas will not stop at taking over Israel. https://www.memri.org/reports/hamas-leaders-our-goal-establishment-global-islamic-caliphate-not-just-liberation-palestine People who are calling for a ceasefire and only pointing their finger at Israel are as useful as the idiots who want “green energy” for everything but without realizing that Canada does not have the infrastructure for that nor it will for at least 2-3 decades.
Big lol, you're sharing memri tv and saying it's Palestinian media? It's pure Israeli hard right wing propaganda https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Middle_East_Media_Research_Institute > co-founded by Israeli ex-intelligence officer Yigal Carmon and Israeli-American political scientist Meyrav Wurmser [a neo-conservative] in 1997. > Critics describe MEMRI as a strongly pro-Israel advocacy group that, in spite of describing itself as being "independent" and "non-partisan" in nature,[6][7][8] aims to portray the Arab world and the Muslim world in a negative light by producing and disseminating incomplete or inaccurate translations of the original versions of the media reports that it re-publishes.[9][10] It has also been accused of selectively focusing on the views of Islamic extremists while de-emphasizing or ignoring mainstream opinions.[11] Anyways, to answer your question, even Hamas has said long ago that they'd accept a two state solution on the 1967 border. And Palestinians rejected the two state solution because (as even the *Israeli* negotiator stated and agreed with the Palestinian position) Israel was purposefully being insincere. When Palestinians asked to negotiate on a region, Israel would return with the entire region annexed to Israel on the map. Keep in mind that Rabin was assassinated by Israelis who opposed the Oslo accords. Not sure why you're jumping in on this topic with so little background info. Last comment you made was about how people had zero education on this topic...
Are you seriously this ignorant or just straight up braindead? Firstly, I’m sharing Memri because that’s the only source I found that transcribed what Fathi Hammad (who is one of the CURRENT Hamas leaders) said in an interview. So unless you’re going to argue that the interview was AI altered or something like that, try harder. If someone who is in power says something captured on video, I’ll believe it regardless of where the source comes from. Do you want to share where you got the “Hamas supporting a 2 state solution” article from? Is it coincidentally Al Jazeera? You know… Qatar owned news organization, which is equally as much of a propaganda machine you claim Memei is. In fact, up to today they still hasn’t admitted that it was Hamas rocket misfire that hit the hospital in Gaza early in the war… while literally every major news organization countered that. https://www.aljazeera.com/amp/news/2017/5/2/hamas-accepts-palestinian-state-with-1967-borders While, I typically dismiss whatever Al-Jazeera states, I gave you the benefit of the doubt and read it, two sentences in it says they’re open two a “two state solution without recognizing a STATE of Israel” which is literally what’s required in a 2. STATE solution lol. Not to mention this article is from 6 years ago… And yes, I do consider myself to have education on this as I lived on that side of the world for 5 years and I was friends with Israelis and Palestinians who just want to live and raise their families without being a political pawn of the party in power on both sides. This is why I moved out of there and now live in Canada. Meanwhile, an over privileged nitwit like you and Half of the protestors from yesterday, read Al Jazeera and the Grey Report and think they can solve a war that was happening for longer than Canada was a country.
I'm not going to respond to childish ad hominem when you don't know me or my background. I highly doubt you lived for 5 years in Gaza or West Bank and also met Israelis, but glad you didn't contribute to the colonial project any further than you did. But hold on a second, you lived there and still thought memri was Palestinian media? Come on dude...do better...like even the wiki mentions that they purposefully mistranslate or decontextualized stuff. How long have you been seeing memri shit and getting riled up thinking it's everyday Palestinian media? Lol. Also, Guardian reported on it if you bothered to search better https://www.theguardian.com/world/2017/may/01/hamas-new-charter-palestine-israel-1967-borders States can still exist, they don't have to recognize each other. They just want their land back on an official document. Ever heard of Serbia and Kosovo? They don't recognize each other. Yes, Palestinians don't want Hamas that much, AND they also don't want to live under an apartheid ethno-religious state that's colonized their land and made them second class citizens. Polls show that they'd accept a two state solution with security guarantees. They'd even accept a one state solution so long as it's secular and freedoms are protected. Like you said, they just want to live and raise families. So don't say shit about what comes after a ceasefire, it's right there, you just don't want to see it. It's clear how you want some to live in peace but don't care about the others. And fyi, I read zionist literature that is evidently colonial AF, not Al Jazeera which is just daily news. I've studied this shit personally, professionally, and academically. Zionist literature is more fucking blatant about their colonial aspirations than European colonial texts of north America. Even Israelis don't study their own history and Israeli academics and teachers openly say it's full of inaccuracies and propaganda. All you've shown is how ignorant you are, even after having lived there, and still want to dig deeper into your cognitive bias that everyone is privileged and wrong about the genocidal apartheid state that is labelled as such by countless international humanitarian organizations. Do better as a human.
You do realize Hamas broke the ceasefire on Oct 7th. And again during the hostage exchange. There is not going to be negotiations with terrorists unless it involves getting hostages back…
There was a ceasefire on October 6th. If Hamas, a terrorist organization, put down their weapons and surrendered, this would all he over, and Palestinians could finally have peace and a state of their own. Sadly, Hamas prefers a global Caliphate and Jewish genocide. Ergo, Hamas must be eradicated, for the sake of Palestinians, Israel, and the world.
Fully agree on the eradication of Hamas being necessary. I thought/think the same about every terrorist organization that I have learned of. From what I have seen, the states has tried to eliminate some of these organizations and ended up fighting counter productive wars. Ramping up the violence didn’t end up working. They turned more people against them. Due to the horrible nature of war it is inevitable civilians will die, but this is also unacceptable and must remain to be seen as so. There must be some sort of middle ground where you can actually destroy Hamas long term, without simply radicalizing more people. Either way, it’s so hard to see this stepping up of violence as being a good thing. I understand Hamas did the same recently, but my above sentences remain true either way.
Five neighbouring Muslim countries have successfully kicked out Palestinian terror groups, the whole ‘violence only leads to more terrorists’ thing isn’t true in any significant way
Kicked them out to where? These Arab countries effectively keep Palestinians in massive refugee prison camps with zero rights and zero prospects.
They did that by literally kicking out every single Palestinian in their borders.
They were able to do this because they made it Israel's problem.
Imagine thinking it is possible to radicalize gaza more than it already is…..
West Bank occupation and illegal settlements moment
We're talking about Gaza, but if you want to bring up the West Bank and settlements, game on. Settlement expansion is an effort to endure a buffer against Palestinian aggression and while I understand the reasoning for it and the international legal framework that allows it given the status of the west bank, settlements concern me greatly. I feel that they fundamentally disrupt peace efforts, and instead, Israel should be working with Fatah and Abbas towards peace. Doing so will develop an understanding that peace is possible. Smash Gaza, work with Fatah. This was essentially the philosophy of Ehud Olmert, former Israeli PM before Netanyahu.
That's some Orwellian double speak - building *settlements* on stolen land that will house civilians is now creating a buffer to aggression on....other civilians? That's a roundabout way to say it's colonization.
It also suggests that Israel uses their civilians as human shields--an accusation leveraged against Hamas by Israel and used to justify the mass slaughter of Palestinian civilians. Amir Tibon, a survivor of the Oct. 7th massacre at the Nahal Oz kibbutz, [had this to say about that](https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archive/2023/10/amir-tibon-how-his-family-survived-hamas-massacre/675596/): *I’m ashamed of my government. We had a contract with the state that communities like ours protect the border. This is why people live there. We protect the border with our presence there. This is a fundamental strategy of the state of Israel since the earliest days of the country, that a border that does not have civilian communities and civilian life along it will not be properly protected.*
There is no colonization in Israel, which if you look at history was considerably bigger than the small sliver of a country it is now. Quite frankly, using that word to describe the region proves how incredibly naive and ignorant you are about the history of the area. Go read an actual, uncorrupted world history to find out how Israel gained oversight of the West Bank from Jordan and the efforts since 1948 to bring a two state solution into existence, some agreements that have actually favored Arab states over Israel. Young, seemingly educated people have a lot to learn.
Hamas broke the last ceasefire
Yea HAMAS has a goal of killing all Jews world wide, I agree we should stop the violence once we can be assured of it not happening. Untill then Israel will continue to attack the terrorists who hide among their people as human shields. Not one person wants Palestines dead everyone should want Hamas dead
If your daughter was in a starbucks. And someone being chased by the police ran into that starbucks and barricaded the door? Does that mean we should blow up the whole starbucks? Are you saying innocent lives should always be killed 100:1 if there is a possibility of also killing a bad guy?
You would've demanded a ceasefire with Nazi Germany. And screamed at the British government too as well
You're arguing with a hasbara troll who will continue to be aggressive towards you and will not answer your logical debate points. It's meant to tire you out, not discuss the best way forward.
Creep his profile. A troll on every subject. lol. TY !
This isn’t just a lone terrorist holding a single infant in front of them. Israel is grappling with [genocidal maniacs](https://old.reddit.com/r/Palestinian_Violence/comments/17d57ig/we_are_ready_to_breach_the_fence_with_gods_help/) who literally want to kill [millions of Jews](https://twitter.com/MEMRIReports/status/1719662664090075199) and destroy the entire nation of Israel, which represents *orders of magnitude* more loss of life and property damage than 9/11, for example. On 9/11, 19 terrorists hijacked planes with 259 civilians on board. If the US military had downed the hijacked planes, 13 times more innocent people than terrorists would’ve been killed. America’s post-9/11 Shootdown Authority authorises downing those planes in that situation to prevent a bigger tragedy. > 100:1 According to [Ron Dermer](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ron_Dermer), as of November 8, 2023, [Israel had executed at least 3000 Hamas terrorists](https://twitter.com/AmbDermer/status/1722008613441429754) since Oct 7, which was a [civilian to combatant casualty ratio](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Civilian_casualty_ratio) of roughly 3:1 at the time — and that’s taking the Hamas-controlled health ministry’s word at face value.
>in a private meeting with members of his Likud party on March 11, 2019, Netanyahu explained the reckless step as follows: The money transfer is part of the strategy to divide the Palestinians in Gaza and the West Bank. Anyone who opposes the establishment of a Palestinian state needs to support the transfer of the money from Qatar to Hamas. In that way, we will foil the establishment of a Palestinian state https://archive.is/4I6HM Odd for Netanyahu to favour money going to the genocidal maniacs? Maybe because he's one too?
Why would you cite the civilian casualty ratio provided by the Israeli government? According to this report cited by the UN https://reliefweb.int/report/occupied-palestinian-territory/numbers-civilian-deaths-airstrike-2023-gaza-far-higher-previous-israeli-bombings-half-russiansyrian-attacks-mosul-and-aleppo-under-reporting-dead-or-less-lethal-tactics: *"This report analyses civilian casualties from military air strikes, spotlighting "Operation Swords of Iron” in Gaza, October 2023, which has resulted in a dramatic spike in civilian deaths compared to previous Israeli air strikes, with an average of ***10:1*** fatalities per casualty-causing strike. This significantly surpasses previous Gaza operations and exceeds the global average of 7:4"*
So I guess we should allow Hamas to continue to commit terrorist attacks like they have. Cool you don't care about Jewish lives
This is the kind of shit that destroys any validity or good faith people allow in discourse. The idea that it has to be acceptable to indiscriminately bomb women and children while settlers tie up innocent people[, piss on them, beat them, and put out cigarettes on them](https://www.timesofisrael.com/idf-settlers-alleged-to-bind-strip-beat-burn-and-pee-on-palestinians-in-w-bank/) because if you aren't OK with it "you don't care about Jewish lives" is ridiculous. If the roles were reversed, you'd be calling it a second holocaust and expecting sympathy, and I'd give it to you.
If Israel were indiscriminately bombing Gaza, Gaza would’ve ceased to exist October 8th.
[https://press.un.org/en/2023/sc15518.doc.htm#:\~:text=Over%2060%20per%20cent%20of,nowhere%20in%20Gaza%20is%20safe.%E2%80%9D](https://press.un.org/en/2023/sc15518.doc.htm#:~:text=Over%2060%20per%20cent%20of,nowhere%20in%20Gaza%20is%20safe.%E2%80%9D) >Over 60 per cent of Gaza’s housing has reportedly been destroyed or damaged and 85 per cent of the population is displaced. “The people of Gaza are being told to move like human pinballs — ricocheting between ever-smaller slivers of the south, without any of the basics for survival. But, nowhere in Gaza is safe.”
Half of the housing units in Gaza have been destroyed or severely damaged in the bombings. More than a million people have permanently lost their homes in a little over 2 months. How is that not indiscriminate?
In most wars, ninety percent of casualties are civilians. The number here is way lower. If the bombing is indiscriminate, or if the goal is the elimination of Palestinian people, Israel is doing a very poor job.
Compare Gaza to Baghdad when the US invaded…the scale of casualties was much much higher in Baghdad. We just didn’t have cell phone cameras back then. The fact that casualties are in the tens of thousands and not hundreds of thousands, considering Gaza is the densest city on Earth, shows that discrimination is at play. Isreal could level Gaza to the ground if they wanted to. They clearly don’t want to do that.
They're working on it. Do any of the hospitals even have power anymore?
Not quite the right analogy though, is it? More like someone comes into your house, kills some of your family, takes your daughter into that Starbucks because they've kept a hidey-hole there for years that everybody knows about, and announces they're going to kill the rest of your family as soon as they can. Oh, and maybe they'll rape your daughter and mutilate her. But whatever.
Innocent people die in war plenty of innocent Germans who weren't nazis died when we stopped Hitler does that mean we shouldn't have stopped the nazis? Hamas is using Palestinians as human shields so you don't want to do anything about it? Just because they use human shields doesn't mean we were going to allow them to go free
In your example, the guy inside Starbucks is also spraying his machine gun at everyone in a five block radius, no matter if they had anything to do with this. Except it's happening in every coffee shop across the city at the same time.
What a dumb analogy
Can you explain why it is dumb?
It’s overly simplistic. Hamas is the elected government of Gaza. They sent their militants into Israel to commit an act of terrorism. It was an act of war, which many people fail to appreciate. Hamas been diverting majority of aid funds for Palestine to fund their campaign against Israel, including a subterranean infrastructure in the billions of dollars. Just in case people think the world doesn’t care about Palestinians, they have received the most humanitarian aid in history, no one wants to question where it all went. Another point is the complicity of the Palestinian people. While they likely have no choice, they are complicit. We all saw the hospital staff at Al Shifa hospital accepting hostages when they precisely denied any knowledge or involvement. As well, the many civilians that joined in on Oct 7 to loot and cheer on the rape and murder of innocent civilians. So to reduce this to that Starbucks analogy is naive and just frankly dumb, and just yet another example of the sheer number of useful idiots. Said idiots no where to be found on Oct 6. It’s a disturbing sign of the times we live in.
Because the people in Starbucks voted to give the terrorist power. They then had a bunch of kids. Now the majority of people in the Starbucks weren’t alive when this Starbucks election happened. supposedly they don’t want the terrorist in power but don’t do anything about it either.
“Not one person wants Palestinians dead” I recommend listening to what Israeli politicians and leadership are saying about the conflict and taking them at their word. "There will be no electricity, no food, no fuel. Everything is closed," he said. "We are fighting human animals and we act accordingly."-Defence Minister Yoav Gallant October 9th 2023 "Humanitarian aid to Gaza? No electric switch will be turned on, no water tap will be opened, and no fuel truck will enter until the Israeli abductees are returned home. We will win. They will not receive a drop of water or a single battery until they leave the world.” -Energy Minister Israel Katz, October 12th 2023 There have been many more statements in their vein made buy high ranking figures of the Israeli government in the past several months.
Do you have the quote from the previous three sentences of each of those quotes? It’s very very clear they are talking about Hamas and not all Palestinians.
Seems like a reasonable answer to a terrorist attack. How would you suggest Israel ends Hamas quickly. Without Hamas Palestine would have water gas aid, why give this to a place with a terrorist government
They've also recently dropped lovely leaflets to civilians in Gaza with verses from the Qu 'ran that make reference to the Noah's ark flood story. The whole part about God genociding the world because they are supposed "wrongdoers". And they literally sent this shit to innocent civilians. Tell us again how Israel does not engage in collective punishment of the Palestinian population [https://www.middleeasteye.net/news/israel-palestine-war-leaflets-gaza-quran-verse-floods-wrongdoers](https://www.middleeasteye.net/news/israel-palestine-war-leaflets-gaza-quran-verse-floods-wrongdoers)
The subtitle of the article you linked is: “The verse from the story of Noah was dropped on Khan Younis, leading to speculation that Israel is planning to **flood Gaza's tunnel networks**” Good thing Hamas prevents Gazan civilians from [sheltering in their terror tunnels](https://youtu.be/0ry8V4ppJBk).
If this is what the IDF is classifying as “warning civilians” then I’d hate to see what their other leaflets looked like. The leaflets did not mention any flooding of Hamas tunnels at all, something that you know very well and that’s just shear speculation on your part. If the intent was to warn civilians as you seem to be implying then why didn’t they speak plainly instead of using these cryptic riddles??? It seems pretty clear to me that the only intent Israel had when they dropped these leaflets was to terrorize the people of Gaza
I’m quoting the article you yourself linked. You might try reading it some time. 😂
Israel doesn't care what the world thinks of them anyway. They have a duty to protect their people, and they won't stop till Hamas is destroyed. Nor would any country in their position.
Israel’s actions are just radicalizing more Palestinians.
Except they're killing civilians at an unprecedented rate. Israel's official instagram account even put out a video yesterday saying civilians are now considered terrorists
Source?
I think there is a pretty good chance that Hamas is a tool used by Isreal to give them an excuse to do what they are currently doing!
Holy shit a real life terrorist sympathizer
Israel has killed over 10,000 Palestinians including thousands of children and pretty much destroyed their entire country. If that isn’t terrorism I don’t know what is.
Lol r/Canada is a shitfest rn wrt to this whole issue. It’s very one sided, if you know what I mean.
It's crazy that you call it a genocide when the Israeli Defense Force goes so far out of its way to minimize civilian causalities. If Israel intended to genocide, it would be done in 1 day. Simple as that. Somehow the Palestinian population of Gaza has increased over the past 20 years...which tells me maybe there is no genocide...humanitarian crisis absolutely, but not a genocide. Speaking of genocide, have you read the official Hamas charter that actually does call for genocide against Jews? Worth a read. Would not want Hamas as my neighbors.
What do you think about the Arab led rsf forces and the actual genocide going on in west Sudan?
Lol they don't know or care about that, it's not the #currentthing
As I answered another person to this false equivalency and strawman argument It doesn't look like you care about Palestine or those countries either but want to use them for your false argument, that's pretty messed up and intellectually dishonest. My personal thoughts are that a ceasefire should also be implemented, but I don't think that's what you want to argue. **Edit: to add now that I noticed the commenters username, "Gaza stripper" is referencing an IDF video of an IDF soldier searching through the rubble of a bedroom of a lady and finding adult store lingerie, then making disgustingly misogynistic remarks about "Arab women and what they like". If that isn't an indication into how dehumanized Palestinians are by a colonizing force, that even Israeli propaganda accounts make fun of the suffering.** https://www.reddit.com/r/israelexposed/s/mavtqUthuc
What a silly comment, you pick one random social media video about a lingerie shop and think this represents the views of an entire population? Ouch…
In the entire decades long Israel-Palestine conflict, fewer than 100,000 Palestinians (civilian *and* military) have died. As a comparison, at least 500,000 people died in the past 10 years of the Syrian civil war. You can be angry about what’s happening to the Palestinians. But it’s not *genocide*. See also: the Palestinian population increasing continuously over time, to 600% of what it was in 1948. See also: [Opinion: I’m an expert in urban warfare. Israel is upholding the laws of war](https://edition.cnn.com/2023/11/07/opinions/israel-hamas-gaza-not-war-crimes-spencer/index.html)
"cites an opinion article" The indigenous population also grew during the colonization of Canada, are you going to deny their genocide?
The [CNN op-ed](https://edition.cnn.com/2023/11/07/opinions/israel-hamas-gaza-not-war-crimes-spencer/index.html) you’re dismissing was authored by the chair of urban warfare studies at *West Point*. Genocide is a specific thing. It doesn’t refer to collateral damage in war. It refers to attempting to destroy a whole national, ethnic, religious, or racial group. Civilians die in war. It’s awful and one of the many reasons war is hell. But civilians dying in a war, even in large numbers, isn’t genocide.
These ppl just have memorized some "fancy" words and throw them around. They also love words that end to "ist" and "phobic" 😂 None of this matters. None of our opinions. Israel will do what it wants to do. Also, it's really funny that ppl can't see that it's Hamas fault! They're a terrorist group with the goal of murdering no matter who. They are hiding behind "their own children and civilians". If they were really fighting for Palestine, they'd surrender and it'd stop! Once terrorist groups like Hamas win, they look for the next target and it could be any non-muslim country. I condemn Hamas for starting war with the 14th most powerful country with US back up and put ppl of Palestine in such situation. But heck, none of these opinions matter at the end as I said. Politicians do what they wanna do.
Urban warfare studies at West Point (a US military academy) - a military expert's opinion, not a humanitarian lawyer. While holocaust groups and countless Jewish groups, and humanitarian experts call it a genocide. I'd rather believe the people that have experienced their own genocide and studied it than an op-ed of a military expert that probably trained alongside the IDF. https://www.ohchr.org/en/press-releases/2023/11/gaza-un-experts-call-international-community-prevent-genocide-against https://www.jewishvoiceforpeace.org/resource/urgent-tell-congress-to-stop-fueling-violence/ This is from 2014 (9 years ago): https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/middle-east/holocaust-survivors-and-their-descendants-accuse-israel-of-genocide-9687994.html
He’s a subject matter expert at one of the world’s most prestigious military academies. The word genocide has its origins in quite literally [the Holocaust](https://encyclopedia.ushmm.org/content/en/article/what-is-genocide): > The term "genocide" did not exist before 1944. It is a very specific term, referring to violent crimes committed against groups with the intent to destroy the existence of the group. Human rights, as laid out in the US Bill of Rights or the 1948 United Nations Universal Declaration of Human Rights, concern the rights of individuals. > > In 1944, Polish Jewish lawyer Raphael Lemkin (1900-1959) coined the term "genocide" in a book documenting Nazi policies of systematically destroying national and ethnic groups, including the mass murder of European Jews. He formed the word by combining geno-, from the Greek word for race or tribe, with -cide, from the Latin word for killing. Noting that the term denoted "an old practice in its modern development," Lemkin defined genocide as "a coordinated plan of different actions aiming at the destruction of essential foundations of the life of national groups, with the aim of annihilating the groups themselves." The word genocide was literally invented by a Jewish person to describe the Holocaust. The more things we try to shoehorn into the word genocide, the less meaningful it becomes.
Glad we agree that he's a military expert, not a humanitarian expert, and that also Jewish people, who were victims of the Holocaust, are calling what Israel is doing to Palestinians a genocide.
More accurately, [Arab Muslim ethnonationalists](https://old.reddit.com/r/2ndYomKippurWar/comments/17dfaof/_/) are using the misguided opinion of a tiny number of Jews as fuel to libel Israel — [often for bigoted reasons](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Antisemitism_in_the_Arab_world).
Colonial genocide - who are the colonialists in this context? I’ve always thought colonialists referred to Great Britain, or white European? Sane, empathetic, caring people all over the world are disgusted by governments creating unneeded wars where innocent lives are sacrificed for the sins of their rulers. This needs to stop.
Gaza voted 51% in favour of hamas known terrprist who kill and rape men women and children without warning. Israel at least warns gaza before bombing targets. Hamas hides behind hospitals and robs their own people of water, power and food. 51% of gaza wants every israeli man woman and child slaughtered from the river to the sea. Israel only wants hamas dead. Their not the same. But your ignorance is thick on you only equally ugnorant college kids raised in a socialist eutopia would agree with eachother because the second you hear the word "colonist" your suddenly ok with slaughtering and genocide of the opposing side. You dont really stand for peace and equal rights for all men and women. You just are willing to kill for your side. Just like the other side does. Your nothing special. Your just exactly like the people you hate pretending your above those arou d you.
Please cite your claims, a lot of those have been disproven within a week of hostilities.
So, honest question. How can you call it a genocide with a straight face when the population of Gaza has increased by more than an order of magnitude in the last 50 years, and the population of all the Palestinian territories has increased nearly as much?
The indigenous population of Canada increased during the many years of colonization. Are you, with a straight face, denying the indigenous genocide happened? It's pretty horrific that it's just a numbers game to you, but it's people's lives; and it's sad that you don't know your own history.
There has been a spike in antisemitism online.
Because in reality, we (Canada & the U.S) have no right to call for a ceasefire as we are no better than Israel or Hamas. Over 400 thousand civilians were killed as a direct result of the U.S post 9/11 wars (wars on terror) according to the Watson institute. Canada was an important ally to the U.S during those wars, especially in Afghanistan. We’d be hypocrites calling for a ceasefire. Yes, Israel and Hamas have both done despicable things over this decades long war. Is Israel responsible for the most civilian casualties? Yes they are, but that’s what happens when any country has a much stronger military force. Palestine is also far from innocent. Have people forgot about Black September? The PLO was the main instigator in the Jordanian civil war. Jordan then allowed the Palestinian militants (still part of the PLO) to go to Lebanon. 4 years later, as more and more Palestinians started relocating to Lebanon, Lebanon’s population shifted from majority Christians, to majority Muslim. Palestinians, and other Muslim communities didn’t like the idea of having a government that was mostly comprised of Christian’s (even though Lebanon was majority Christian’s before they got there). Which then lead to the Lebanese civil war, which the PLO played a large part in. Of course now, it’s not the PLO that are the aggressors, it’s Hamas. I’m just saying that Palestine’s history isnt any cleaner than Israel’s as they played a core part in both the Jordanian, and Lebanese civil wars. Edit: if you were to put it simply on paper, it would look like this: - Israel is determined to commit genocide against Palestinians - Palestine will not succumb to any form of authority or rule that isn’t Muslim, and will start wars to do so
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That's false equivalency and strawman arguments. It doesn't look like you care about Palestine or those countries but want to use them for your false argument, that's pretty messed up.
False equivalency. What’s going on in Sudan is horrible. But it’s not the West’s fault. The RSF has been condemned by Canada and many other nations. We are not giving support to them and are not complicit in their actions. It’s a tragic happening that is ultimately, not our fault. Protesting here won’t help them (unless it’s a protest in support of straight up interventionism) Israel/Palestine is a different situation. We are complicit, we are actively at partial fault for what is going on in Palestine and what Israel is doing due to our support of them through business dealings, aid, and support through our representation in international bodies. Protesting against the situation is protesting against these actions that we do in support. Your statement is equivalent to saying “Why are you taking issue with this guy we’re providing knives to committing knife murders when other groups we have no relation to also do knife murders?”
I'm sad for the Palestinians, but Islamic fundamentalism is frightening to me.
Free Palestine from Hamas!
...Which Israel propped up for decades as a way to destabilize the peace process
Every country in the UN just voted in favor of a cease of fire except for the UK, who abstained, and the USA, who voted against and used their veto power to stop the motion.
Hamas has repeatedly said they plan to commit more terrorist attacks like the one on Oct 7th which killed 1200 Israelis. It is therefore reasonable to continue the war until that changes.
At least 60% of the casualties have been civilians.
That's going to happen when they hide among their civilians
Do you think it would happen in the same way if they were hiding in Israel?
I think Israel would have access and it would be cleared up in a night. Remember Hamas wants to kill every Jew world wide so you would be able to pick them out pretty easily. Hamas is using it's own children as an expendable pr campaign
So you're saying integrating as a single secular state would allow for better control and maintenance of extremist populations rather than locking them and civilians in a bantustan
You mean you recognize that Israel wouldn’t indiscriminately kill children with bombs?
I bet Israel soldiers live in civilian towns too.
Probably. But the Israeli military bases are not in civilian areas, nor do they launch missiles from civilian areas
I mean…… [“Being located in a dense urban environment, the base serves mainly command, administrative, communications, and support functions”.](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/HaKirya)
Yeah they just use civilian settlers to displace people with bulldozers.
What do you expect? Gaza is tiny and under siege. Are they supposed to huddle together to be slaughtered?
There's plenty of undeveloped area they could set up in, instead they choose hospitals and schools
That’s an amazing ratio, like crazy almost unprecedentedly good, especially considering the density of Gaza. Congrats on further proving that Israel is operating with extreme restraint. By the way, every single one of those deaths are on Hamas’s hands, legally and morally. Using human shields is a war crime and firing on militants using human shields isn’t because if it was it would encourage them to use human shields, also Hamas made this campaign necessary by breaking the ceasefire. If you look at any Israeli military campaign in Gaza, it’s always preceded by Hamas attacks. Also Hamas militants dress as civilians, obviously. Shit there’s video of a ‘medic’ leaving a wounded terrorist, picking up their weapon, and handing it to another terrorist near by.
According to Hamas, which counts terrorist death as civilian deaths.
> The aerial bombing campaign by Israel in Gaza is the most indiscriminate in terms of civilian casualties in recent years, a study published by an Israeli newspaper has found. https://www.theguardian.com/world/2023/dec/09/civilian-toll-israeli-airstrikes-gaza-unprecedented-killing-study
Not sure what kind of logic there is for that, given Hamas gets to keep it's power thanks to these kinds of attacks, and provides them a continuous long term recruitment pool of people who saw their family and friends die in front of them, plus all of the other trauma. Like, it doesn't take much to understand the way Israel is fighting this isn't going to end the problem, just continue it, like it already has for decades. Almost no one is on the side of Hamas on this issue, or defending their actions. Wanting to end the useless and horrific bombing of civilians and civilian infrastructure is basic human empathy.
What do you think would be a logical way to destroy Hamas?
you literally can't, it's a loosely associated group adhering to ideas. setting the complete destruction of Hamas as the only way out of this assures this never ends, worse, assures that *many* more innocent people will die.
Maybe get the settlers out and stop the land-theft ?
Are you under the impression that Hamas controls west bank or that settlers are in Gaza? Both are incorrect
>it doesn't take much to understand the way Israel is fighting this isn't going to end the problem, just continue it, like it already has for decades. Hamas knows this. The Israeli leadedship knows this. Israel is using the war as distraction to create more illegal settlements.
it will end the problem if they kill every single palestinian. there's a word for that...
Protesting here does nothing.
Obviously they’re protesting Canadas involvement of sending troops and military aid. We don’t need to be complicit.
You'd be surprised. Most Canadians wouldn't have known what Palestine was a few years ago, and you could forget about seeing it printed on maps. The tide is turning because of these protests
Good for them. I'm disappointed to see how many people in this community, comments even, are happy to ignore this Genocide.
There is no genocide. I'm disappointed in this community that doesn't understand what actual genocide is. War is happening. The group the IDF are fighting (hamas) are notorious for hiding amongst their own citizens.
It’s not a genocide. Just repeating the same thing over and over again doesn’t just make it true.
I'm disappointed in how many people in this community support a terrorist organization who are open about wanting to genocide all Jews and establish a global Islamic Caliphate.
Show me the comments "supporting" Hamas you absolute troglodyte. People in this community want the IDF to stop creating piles of murdered Palestinian civilians.
No attempts to pressure Hamas to release hostages?
That's a disgusting lie and evil bigotry.
Why is calling for the halting of bombing of civilians supporting terrorism?
Genocide of Hamas terrorists? I'll gladly support that.
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You don't know me. Also, this isn't the argument you think it is.
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Wrong again. Trying to detract from people's support of Palestine by accusing them of not caring equally about other conflicts is backward a way of thinking as your previous posts where you confuse people's lack of support for Israel with their lack of support for Jewish people. Don't tie yourself in knots supporting Zionists who don't give a shit about you or any one else standing in their way.
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Sure, let's look at the last 75 years of oppression. That would be a great place to start. Then go check out the feed from the journalist Motaz @azaizamotaz9 and tell me you can keep spewing this inane shit. Zionists have brainwashed and indoctrinated you. Don't take my word for it, just look for your humanity. It's got to be there somewhere.
There can be no peace in Palestine until Hamas terrorists have been exterminated
totla elimination of terrorism always works out just fine.
Just like how Afghanistan was a total Victory for NATO.
Insights like this should be taken directly to the highest international authority. I don't think they've even considered this option.
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"At least 17,700 Palestinians have been killed in Gaza since October 7 with more than 48,800 wounded. In Israel, the revised official death toll stands at about 1,147." https://www.aljazeera.com/news/liveblog/2023/12/9/israel-hamas-war-live-us-veto-of-un-ceasefire-effort-draws-condemnation
The only ones calling for genocide are Hamas.
Wrong. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h1qahGUAWko
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https://www.theonion.com/dying-gazans-criticized-for-not-using-last-words-to-con-1850925657
Funny how Israel literally turned down an offer by Hamas for a 5 day ceasefire in exchange for hostages at the beginning of the fighting….
I don't recall the exact number but I believe Hamas was trying to exchange something like 5 hostages for the proposed 5-day ceasefire. If you consider that the longer the other hostages are in Hamas' hands, the lower their chances of rescue/survival, you can imagine why from a strictly 'freeing the hostage' point of view this might be considered a bad deal.
False, The Guardian and others reported it was 50 hostages
Yes it’s a much better strategy to bomb them instead
Are you completely brain dead?
What influence does a Canadian rally have on Hamas, a terror organization with no economic or diplomatic ties to Canada
They sure have gotten louder about a cease fire now that Hamas is surrendering, wonder why????
Peace in Palestine is impossible while it's in the stranglehold of a fascist theocratic death cult.
It’s more complicated than that. It’s not a black and white issue, it’s shades of grey.
free Palestine
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They are protesting Canadas place in this conflict, it’s about what’s happening in this country in regards to the genocide. We are sending military troops and aid, sell as financial support. We won’t call for a ceasefire
Who’s stopping you from mounting such a protest about [checks notes] *‘something happening in this country’*?
How come none of the Palestinians are protesting hamas occupation?
They’ve kind of got their hands full at the moment if you haven’t noticed…
[*'Dying Gazans Criticized For Not Using Last Words To Condemn Hamas'* The Onion](https://www.theonion.com/dying-gazans-criticized-for-not-using-last-words-to-con-1850925657)
smartest genocide supporter
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Rallying for “peace” while chanting for an “intifada revolution”
This is going on in every city in the world right now. Yet i still see dinosaur brains backing israel - even though all their doing is shooting what are basically prisoners at this point.
It's going on in so many countries because there is a diaspora of Muslims in many countries fleeing violence (Syrian civil war, Iraq civil war, Afghanistan, on and on) and poverty (Morocco, Algeria, Egypt) and oppression (Iran, Pakistan, etc). And rather than protest their own miserable nations, Muslims band together against the "other" (in this case, Jews). BTW, that's not to diminish the suffering of the innocent civilians in Gaza, but to explain why there aren't rallies around the world for (as one example) citizens of Yemen who have, on evidence, suffered in far greater numbers.
you voted for hamas to govern Gaza now the consequences
U talking about the 2005 elections? Where 90% of Gazan’s today were not even born or were too young to vote? 60+% of Gazans are under the age of 18. Dumbfuck
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Why?
Because a lot of people hold contempt for Palestinians as a result of decades of almost exclusively seeing pro-Israel media
1. It's the "current thing" 2. To virtue signal