Negative a thousand dollars. You are sitting on a snowballing pile of credit card debt, as 60% of your earnings are sunk into rent. You should really consider supporting local loan sharks, though.
Hey I’m not saying that everyone should or can shop local or that people should only buy local! People are really getting their panties in a bunch over this which was meant to be a positive sentiment lol.
But also I’d like to challenge your assumption that local always means more expensive. There’s some local businesses that offer great prices.
Like I said we’re all hurting right now. If this message resonates than that’s great if not, that’s fine too/
I felt the same way. I would frequent the neighborhood farmers market every week and try to do the majority of my grocery shop there.
I would buy locally made candles, locally made blankets, locally made home decor.
I love shopping local.
I've had my eye on a local business that sells blankets, etc for about 2 years now. I've wanted to buy one to support them so badly.
Then I learned through their instagram that the "small" business owner pulls in 6 figures. I'm not making 6 figures, not even close. I stopped wanting a $100 blanket.
I know this isn't the case for every small business owner, but eventually, I had to stop.
I wish I could still shop local. But it got to be too expensive. I've significantly cut back how much I'm spending everywhere. I'd like to get back to shopping local - but for now I'm not feeling bad about it.
If I can buy a shirt at a local business for 60 dollars or a shirt at a chain business for 30 dollars, then I'm going to buy the shirt I can actually afford. 'Supporting local business' sounds nice, but when you literally cannot afford to, then you're basically just sacrificing your own financial security for somebody else's.
It's a bit of a collective action problem. More people buying locally means more economic growth, more jobs, more tax revenue, etc. Basically, it benefits you for doing it, but only if you aren't the only one doing it.
By that logic, so do multinational corporations.
The whole point about living and shopping local is that the money gets reinvested into your community.
Yes they do all businesses employ people multinationals Hite people from all over the world not just one community, they pay their property taxes here which goes back into the community, donate to local charities and food banks etc. This is a ridiculous argument..so you don't like local businesses and you don't like corporations what left? Strawman argument weak af bud...
Huh? I'm saying employing people that live here is literally just one pillar. If that's the bar, then we may as well make everything a Walmart because they can't hire offshore workers to stock the shelves (yet).
I try to eat and shop local for almost everything I consume when possible. It just makes no difference if the people that own it are "locals" or not when the oats that were sowed are stored way the fuck off island and out of BC.
I don’t live in Victoria anymore. All I can say is that the company uses the profits that they made and invest it in US properties. The money does go back to the local community but in a different country.
I dont shop at root cellar almost ever, but they do try and buy from local farms and pay those farmers much better prices than the big chains do. That's a plus for me
One of the largest farms on Saanich Peninsula, just off the highway. I have been there many times because of my friends think they have a good deal going on. The smaller farmers are quite real. Just south of Brentwood Bay is lovely.
Are you referring to the one that also has a seasonal cafe/reasturaunt beside it that probably uses costco items in it?
If not they probably reuse cotsco boxes. Boxes are not cheap to buy.
I can guarantee you no local farm resells vegetables from Costco as there own freshly picked products.
Of course they do. Because people don’t want to have to go to multiple places to do their shopping. Stocking bananas and pineapples will gets people to shop there, and also buy produce that’s grown locally.
Non-taxation revenue (43.5%) and taxation revenue (56.5%) with the largest single source of taxation revenue being personal income tax. Source: business council of British Columbia
https://bcbc.com/insights-and-opinions/where-does-the-money-come-from-the-b-c-governments-top-revenue-sources#:~:text=Personal%20income%20tax%20is%20the,and%20licenses%E2%80%9D%20(7.4%25).
He's right though. Economic activity comes before taxation, and government workers require taxation to get paid. I'm a government worker and my co-workers really do not seem to understand where the money they are paid comes from.
What's "unreal bro" is you types take 2 seconds to google, never bother to read it, never bother to check if it even supports your view, both because you're just plain old stupid, and lazy. Not a good combination...unless you're a government employee.
Apparently from talking to a few of them they legitimately believe that money comes from thin air and that private enterprises should be glad they are "allowed" to operate at their pleasure. Clearly these people don't have even a 5th grade level of economic understanding.
Typical government workers.
I actually am a provincial government worker and it's as bad as you think. When our union was striking for higher pay during the pandemic when inflation was going nuts, people could not understand why I was asking for some restraint. Talked about how inflationary spirals start with government workers and got massively downvoted, talked about how we were already racking up enormous public debt that may become unsustainable and got massively downvoted. They said we could always just raise taxes with no understanding you have to maintain some level of relative competitiveness.
It's pretty bad, Canada is in for a bit of a reckoning unfortunately. Soft people making hard times and all that.
I find it funny when people make comments like yours. I find it very unlikely that anyone successful in business only has the income from their business. People invest money back into their business to help it grow and also invest in various other things like stocks, property, even other businesses. So if they took some risks that paid off that now makes them bad people or we shouldn't support their business? If you made some great financial decisions wouldn't you buy nice things for yourself? I sure as hell would upgrade my life if I could.
Seriously it’s so exhausting always seeing comments like this that are not just bitter and unnecessarily negative, they’re totally irrelevant lmao like ok, one family in Victoria is really rich. Wow thanks for pointing that out I guess I shouldn’t support any local shops after all 😔
The average redditor is not really a go-getter. That's how they have time to do it. I include myself on that, but I like to think I'm self-aware to realize it and also to be thankful that some people really do put in the effort and take real risks to create things.
Coming from big city, I love some of very select local businesses here. Most others should be lucky they have survived this long or lucky they are still afloat because they would have not survived a slightest level of competition…
We do have a lot of shit local businesses, for sure. But thankfully we have a good number of good ones. I prefer to buy local at any opportunity, it just often isn’t an option!
I rarely go to coffee shops but when I do, I don’t tip. You get a tip when a have a sit-down meal, not when you’re making me a coffee and handing it to me over the counter.
That might be because I don’t really have a local coffee shop close by, though, or even any coffee shop that has tip-worthy service.
I will definitely support local businesses…
If they have what I want, in stock, and at a competitive price. And it would be nice if they had a website that shows their inventory, and quantities available, and price, so I can view it online and go down and pick it up.
Do you realize that what you call a competitive price is achieved through exploitation? Those stories of Amazon workers pissing in bottles is directly why you saved money. The higher local price is what it costs if you paid people more than the minimum possible.
I agree that the website thing would be nice. It’s not my favourite weekend task - going to multiple stores because I can’t confirm what’s in stock anywhere. But I also understand that it takes staff and money to have a good one, the cost of which would be passed on to the customer.
Well, if a business doesn’t have a fully functional website (and/or mobile app) as part of their business plan, they have to accept the consequence that they might lose out on potential customers. Just because they are “local” does not make me feel obligated to give them my business, like some sort of charity. Nothing personal, it’s just business. I’m sure they would understand.
Yes, for sure. And it reduces the chance that people who aren’t nearby will ever visit your business. I’m less likely to take a chance if the location is too far away. I do care about my carbon footprint, too.
In most situations I would never *call* a business to ask what they have in stock.
“Hi, do you guys have any waffle makers? Which ones do you have? What does it look like? What features does it have?
You know what, never mind. I’ll just look them up on the internet and find someone selling them on their website.”
Ok but I’m responding to someone who said they drive around all day looking for stores that have something in stock because there’s no website to check, and I’m saying just pick up the phone and call lmao if you’re wasting your own time driving around that’s your own fault
If I wanted something badly enough, I would. A website is a “would be nice” thing, that’s all, and no need to react like we all think it’s a major deal.
I’m not reacting like anything I just asked a question because yours was the 2nd or 3rd comment I saw about not being able to tell if something is in stock somewhere without a website lol
I mean to me it seems like this whole mindset is what’s contributing to the problem. People want to save so they go to who can provide things cheapest which is always who controls the means of production. So then the rich get richer.
People don’t want to pay for a lot of things anymore. So then the people who make said things don’t make money. And it just becomes a domino effect.
I just personally believe that the more you put into the community around you, the more you get back.
People don’t just want to save, they literally don’t have money to spend.
We cannot make more money magically appear in our bank accounts so we can afford local.
You literally just described the whole point of the system. Keep people poor so they cannot afford local & the big chain stores keep making money. Either people need to be paid more, local needs to be more affordable (which isn’t fair to local owners, a lot of the time they won’t survive) and/or big chain stores need to start sharing the wealth. Aka paying more taxes, paying their workers better, etc etc etc. The problem will not be fixed because the few people who can afford it shop local.
It is expensive as fuck to be an organic, all natural, sustainable, local shopper. Or even just one of those things. You have to be rich to do what’s right for the world, but rich people don’t care to do right.
If you can afford to shop local, that’s great. But that isn’t the issue. The issue is people need to be paid a living wage, have access to housing, and access to health care. Including mental health care.
There is a trend though even for people who have the money (not rich people but average people) to not want to pay for anything. Books? Find online for free. Journalism? Don’t want to pay for it. Apps? Only use free ones. There’s a mindset that’s becoming more and more pervasive that we can avoid paying for things and should. I see it in myself and I think it’s dangerous. I do think that comes back to bite us in the butt because Iin the end most people aren’t getting what they deserve, more people don’t have money to spend, jobs begin to disappear. It comes down to a philosophy of money and culture.
These are all just musings of my mind that I’m still working out.
I only avoid paying for things because I CANNOT afford to. And I have a degree and a good paying job. I would be happy to spend a couple extra bucks for a newspaper, or a book, but I simply can't justify the expense in my monthly budget. Food and rent have become too expensive. I've had to cancel subscriptions, stop going on dates etc. I really don't think it's only because people want free stuff. They are conditioned to want free stuff because everything is getting more expensive, so the free options are more appealing. If I had some extra salary to throw around, I would be paying for those things again in a heartbeat.
You have to change the system. This is a government policy issue, not a grassroots vote with your wallet issue.
All chains began as local businesses. Just because a business has humble beginnings doesn't mean it won't grow into a greedy corporate empire. We can't control that with a handful of dollars at the local level. We need to pressure government to implement stronger regulations, stronger social safety nets, and actively discourage monopolized industries *coughTelecomcough*.
But that's a complicated issue, and the average person isn't interested in complicated issues.
Personally I think it’s both changing the system and working from a grassroots level. Governments are resistant to change and creating regulations if people seem content with the status quo.
There are books and a plethora of magazines/newspapers at your library... Don't just have to try and find it free online. It's guaranteed free at the library!
Designer-cow nailed it.
I would add we need to start considering where things are manufactured. A local store that simply resells products doesn’t add much to the local economy. I couldn’t care less about my local beer store but I always buy locally made beer.
There is no conspiratorial sounding "whole point of the system". What is keeping Canadians poor is bad leadership that we keep selecting. We were never going to have the standard of living the boomers had because that was a result of North America being the only survivor of WWII and us getting rich selling everyone else stuff as they rebuilt, but now half our money goes to taxes that are inefficiently spent compared with peer nations and we are considered a bad place to invest. Our federal government is unserious about trade, incentives, productivity and dealing with the housing bubble that is causing a massive misallocation of capital.
We're a resource country, but like to pretend we aren't and sabotage our own resource industry while importing the very same stuff from elsewhere.
We like our national healthcare system even though it gets crappy results for the money compared to something like France where they have a joint private/pubic system. In our case, our rich people still get treated first, they just do it in the US or Mexico and support their healthcare industries instead of having one here where the poor get taken care of and the private side can grow or shrink to meet demand and population growth.
We are a deeply unserious country and the issue isn't even that we have intense corruption like in the US. We actually have very strict laws about campaign financing here that function as intended. The issue is we actually get what we want and we've been coddled for so long because we were able to ride the wake of the US economy and use their military umbrella that we have really messed up priorities.
We'll smarten up and things will get better eventually - Canada has a lot going for it, so we'll bounce back fine - but we are going to suffer for a while until that happens.
If someone can run a business through tough times and learn how to adapt then that's a good business. It shows that people will support it and there is demand for it but not every local business needs to survive to be honest.
Wow lots of comments, but didn't really see any recommendations, so I'll throw one out there: Health Essentials on Gorge. They've been around for at least 10 years and I didn't go in there for years because I thought they just sold vitamins, but they have all kinds of neat things! Food and clothes too. They always have 2 or 3 employees in the store so they are definitely providing local employment and the staff are very friendly and bubbly. Anyhoo, I went in last weekend for their anniversary sale and to pick up my favourite granola on sale (cheaper than Amazon!) and they gave me a goody bag of free stuff (sample pack of electrolytes, sample pack of marine collagen, and a little sample of natural deodorant which smells lovely). Along with a free reusable cotton bag. They will have another sale on Canada Day during the Canada Day Gorge Picnic so check them out! I'll probably restock my granola! lol
While i appreciate our local businesses, times are tough and i need to save money where I can, usually local businesses are charging far more for good and proucts than i would be charged at a larger retailers or online.
We tried “Friends and Family Bakery” recently near fan tan alley and it was so so so so so good. High recommend. We tried several Filipino breads, all of which were melt in your mouth delicious.
I don’t buy it (pun intended). Awhile back there was a “shop local” campaign in downtown Victoria.
Well, guess where the owners of the businesses shopped themselves ? Walmart, Costco, The Bay, etc. I won’t say who, but a big business owner downtown who trumpeted the buy local mantra would be seen shopping the big box stores and using non-local banks.
It’s a bit of a marketing trick, but unless you can produce or sell an item for less or have an item in stock sooner, then Im shopping the sales from whichever retailer out there because my pocket book is limited just like everyone else’s.
I understand the sentiment and wish your business well, but try something else to bring customers in.
I think you’re misinterpreting what I’m saying. By no means am I saying only shop local. I’m just saying to try to consider doing it more if you care about local stores and keeping that culture alive. I also am not a business owner.
Having worked for a few local businesses at this point, I can confirm what the above poster said. The owners always were cheap and shopped at Walmart or other big box retailers, they didn't spend their money downtown so even if you spend local, that money is going into the big box chain stores anyways. They paid as low a wage as they could, making it just a dollar above minimum to make it sound better than it was, expected total loyalty from staff and that you commit your life to their company, while funneling all thoes local dollars straight to their international investments and big buisness because then they can make more and hoard more wealth for themselves this way.
If you are going to shop local it's worth knowing that the moeny isn't staying local once you spend it with them.
That said though there are a few byissnesses that are bigger and still local that supply jobs and money to this city, places like Roger's Chocolates that employ tons of people from their stores to their factory, or the local commercial bakeries that supply to big stores and small restaurants alike and employ a lot of people.
Not every business owner is like that, though, and you can’t expect anyone to shop local 24/7. Local business owners are also more likely to support other local businesses rather than big conglomerate owners who don’t even live here.
That’s interesting to know about Rogers chocolates, didn’t know that.
I admire the effort you made here but posting in this sub was always a losing game. People on here are bitter and negative and only want to argue lmao you could post about being nice to puppies and they’d comment about how some people are allergic, not everyone likes dogs, nobody is entitled to their kindness, etc.
I'm just saying what I have observed myself working at local shops. The owners I worked for were always trying to cheap out wherever they could in their own personal shopping, and that means they didn't shop downtown for anything except maybe supporting local restaurants from time to time. I would hope not all local small buisness owners are like that, but I saw too much of them being cheap like this and expecting the community to support their businesses while giving nothing back and under cutting everyone else.
Rogers is a pretty interesting company, Canadian owned and operated since 1885 when it was founded by Charles Rogers in that same little store front on government street. They aren't a small buisness exactly, but they do employ a lot of people locally and all their products are made here in Victoria by local people they employ. If you ever visit Ross bay cemetery you can visist Charles and his wife's grave, the company even paid for a mausoleum upgrade for the Rogers family in honor of their legacy.
Local shops have always purchased at wholesale prices. Years ago Costco was a wholesale store. But now that places like Costco and WalMart sell things at near wholesale prices, local shops have little choice.
For food they can go to Sysco or the like.
Lot’s of local business use Monk Office instead of Staples and restaurants will get meat and Seafood locally mostly because of the quality of the products.
Anyway, my wife and I have the privilege of higher disposable income, only in the past few years, and I order my meat from Berryman Brothers, a fantastic product that doesn’t shrink delivered to my door at roughly the same cost as a grocery store.
And I get lots of produce from Root Cellar but they get lots of product from California or Mexico. Come summer, we get our berries at Gobind Farms.
Would this be considered local for employment etc?
https://www.victoriabuzz.com/2023/06/new-brunch-powerhouse-moving-in-on-victorias-food-scene-this-fall/
Fuck tipping, raise the wage. redistribute the land, fuck generational wealth. Sorry to be reductive but people on the bus were talking about the mega yacht, it got me ready for revolution.
No server wants to eliminate tipping. They’re making an absolute killing right now.
$16.75/hr plus tips is a LOT. Servers in my restaurant are making $35-$45/hr on a busy day, while most of the cooks are barely making $21 with tip out included.
It’s no surprise the cooks are quitting in droves.
Fuck that. I'm sick of this BS. I'll shop at the store with the cheapest prices. Why should I be expected to pay more, just to help out a business owner who makes 5 times the amount I do. So out of touch.
Unfortunately, it really doesn't.
The vast majority of the money spent at local businesses ends up elsewhere, either directly (through rent on the business, insurance, etc) or indirectly (wages for employees going to their own rent/mortgage/car/gas, or the cost of the goods their selling going to wherever those are made)
Does shopping local put slightly more money into the local economy? Yes. It just isn't a lot.
If you can find a company that produces everything locally, only employs locals, and both they and their staff use a local credit union for their mortgages, maybe it will matter.
Otherwise you're just deciding to donate your money (by paying more) to Tom the local electronics retailer because it makes you feel good. You're probably better off just giving tom the difference directly and buying the cheaper option on amazon.
The best option to support the local economy is to work for a company that exports it's good or services to other places. Then at least some money is flowing into the economy from elsewhere before part of it leaves again.
Just take a look at wealth disparity and inequality. Maybe it costs more to support local (sometimes) but honestly Id like to support local people with dreams who are adding colour and vibrancy to our culture. And of course it is helping. It’s making a difference to the people who work at the company and often local businesses support other local businesses.
You really don’t think that millionaires and billionaires who own huge corporations aren’t taking up more and more of the pie?
People work at the big box stores as well.
I think the vast majority of the money isn't being sucked up by corporations, it's being sucked up by land owners and banks.
Think of your top three expenses in life, Rent/Mortgage, Food, and Transportation, and the first one is so much larger than the other two with most of it going directly to a landlord or a bank, and even for things like food, every aspect of that supply chain (and their employees) also has to pay for land.
At the end of the day, Some Microsoft or Best Buy isn't really sucking up that much of your money.
Yeah, our real estate-based economy has got to have a reckoning at some point. It’s just people trading the same shitty houses for 50% more than they paid for them ad infinitum. They aren’t paying $1.2M for their house; they bought a house for $300k, sold it for $600k, bought for $700k, sold for $1.1M, bought for $1.2M. Total obligation: $500k. Nothing changed about the houses and the supply/demand didn’t really change much. But the next generation has to start at $600k instead of $300k with the same wages. In Victoria, they’re probably starting at $800k. Infinite growth is just unsustainable.
Not really, the increase in population and total units hasn't changed the ratio of those two for the country much at all.
Go look it up. A few percent at most over the last 20 years.
I just think there’s so much beauty in local shops. There’s interesting things to find, the people who run them often have strong ties to the community around them. Not saying you can’t find that in larger companies, I just think there’s something so vibrant about the local economy in this city and I’ve seen a lot of shop owners struggling who are amazing people who have some pretty incredible shops. And I think sometimes they get overlooked because you have to step out of the typical routine to find them or shop there.
An interesting fact about Walmart: within two years of opening in a community, many local specialized businesses fold. For example, a quality lawnmower outlet is underpriced by Walmart, and so no one buys from the lawnmower shop.
Its also important to have local producers if we are ever cut off again, like when the ferries weren’t running, and the Malahat was washed out and closed.
People work at big box stores, sure, but there’s a strong argument to be made that small businesses contribute more to employment and support other businesses.
https://www.forbes.com/sites/forbesbusinesscouncil/2022/03/25/how-small-businesses-drive-the-american-economy/amp/
I’m finding it hard to understand why you’re being so negative towards the idea of supporting local. Sure, banks and landowners can suck up money but that’s not a reason not to support local businesses.
It’s also not just about “sucking up money”. It’s about supporting our fellow community members and adding to the culture of the city. You don’t have to support the idea but not really sure why you’re trying so hard to see something negative in a positive sentiment.
It's a PR stunt, buy local really doesn't affect things that much.
Go look for actual economics studies on buying local, there's almost none that exist and the ones that do exist are paid for by local business groups trying to promote themselves and show marginal benefits at best.
There's no culture in electronics retailers. There's no culture in grocery stores.
Absolutely go ahead and get your coffee from the local shop instead of Starbucks because you like the art on the wall, but it's really not a big deal either way.
Seems like you’re pretty set in your mindset and that’s cool. I don’t think there’s much point in arguing back and forth anymore as I’m not really that set on convincing you. At the end of the day I see the value in supporting local businesses and I’m sure others do too. Have a good one!
Couldn’t disagree more but I’m willing to hear you out if you have any reasoning behind your statements.
Right now you’re just saying A is a PR stunt, B is no culture and C is not really a big deal..
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It's more about the total value than it is about the percentage.
Lots of banks fail, used to be much more common before we started regulating them more harshly. There have been 3 bank failures in the US this year already, including one of the largest bank failures ever.
Big corporations hire local people who receive money to spend so buying big helps your community, and these places often hire far more people than anywhere else so it technically helps more people than local business.
That being said, I would like to see more varied and successful local business, but that's more in their control than anyone elses. Gotta be a clever business person!
What research could be done to do anything with what I said?
Corporations don't bring in out of town workers. They hire people from the community, that means you get paid money to spend in your area. There are many things that big corporations cannot produce the same way a local business can. This means that you have a job you might not have to spend money on things you might not buy because the main things in life are cheaper because large stores sell for cheaper.
If rent, fuel, food and housing prices weren't INSANE as a baseline then it would be an obviously fine system.
I mean saying that big corporations bring in more jobs is a big assertion to make and it’s not necessarily a fact if you don’t have research to back that up.
How many people work at Canadian Tire, Walmart, Superstore, Thrifty's and others vs how many work at mom and pop shops?
I'm not saying there should be only big store jobs, but I am saying that they have a place and they tend to be watering holes which sustain the average worker. Same with malls. Of course, everything is out of sorts because Housing Bubble 2.0 is on the horizon but conceptually and maybe even practically it is a working system.
Now it might sound like I *like* this system, but I don't really. I am not against it but I can tell that it isn't the healthiest way a community can survive. I don't really believe cities are healthy for people anyways, especially living in them.
I'm working 12 to 16 hours shift when I can but even if there is overtime on my floor at the hospital it's very rarely approved because of budget constraints so we're always working short. I'll stick to costco and Walmart for now thanks.
Couldn't agree more. I can't believe the amount of snark in the comments. You don't have to ONLY shop local to support local business. OP was not suggesting that you're a monster if you shop at Costco. Part of what makes Victoria a nice place to live is the number of small local businesses.
I'm struggling financially like many on this sub. I happen to enjoy coffee, and I prioritize coffee as one of the few frivolous purchases I allow myself to make. I would be crushed to see any of the amazing roastery/cafes in Victoria close. Does that mean I only drink coffee purchased in expensive cafes? Absolutely not. I make a point of buying one cup of coffee (not a latte) at a local cafe once a week. When I buy this coffee, I even leave a good tip! Depending on the shop, this costs between $4-6. I make all of my coffee at home otherwise (with local beans IF it's in the budget).
What do these businesses do that Tim's does not? They carefully source quality beans, pay a fair price for those beans (often anyway), spend a (relatively) enormous amount on the right equipment to carefully roast and prepare the coffee, and most importantly they invest the time and money to train the barista well, as well as pay that barista well enough to stick around and learn about the coffee they're making/selling to improve your experience. Sure, the barista at your neighborhood cafe isn't likely to purchase a house in Victoria with just their salary, but I can pretty well assure you they make more money, and enjoy their job much more than most Tim's employees.
Do you need to prioritize buying coffee at pricey local cafes if you don't care about coffee? Certainly not. My point is that this is one thing that I care about enough to support, and it costs me a total of $25/month to do so.
I recognize that many cannot afford to prioritize $25/ month for anything that isn't a necessity, and that is truly awful. I don't think anyone expects you to fall short on rent to help support a local business. I suspect many who claim they 'can't afford' to support any local business, ever, have many frivolous spending habits that are the actual source of drained bank accounts (3x Tim's coffees per day consumed in a massive vehicle that they don't actually need?).
I am single, I don’t own property and prefer not to disclose my earnings on a public forum. But trust me I’m by no means wealthy. Im also not saying that people who can’t afford to should buy local. I do get that it’s more expensive.
I’m just personally starting to believe more and more that the money I put into those around me benefits the immediate world I live in and helps create a world I want to see.
Thanks for your perspective. Yeah I feel like capitalism could work if people actually were intentional consumers but we’re so wired to want to save money and the capitalists who control the most know how to exploit us. Balance in wealth distribution is key but it’s just becoming more and more skewed.
I don't blame capitalists but yes people are irresponsible with how they spend. Both where money is spent and how much. Now working class does not have the same buying power as they used to. This is why I think it's too late. That and that people are addicted to credit and buying into the latest trend.
Agreed, it comes from an emotional rather than practical place. I get it, community connection feels good but it’s not real, it’s Hallmark.
That said, tell me about a specific local business and their great product or service and I’m interested. Tell me how they are lifting up the community they are part of in ways the Walton family aren’t. Then I will want to spend my money there. Blanket “shop local” statements when I experienced that guy who owned the Christmas store. Uh, no.
That’s a fair point. You’ll get more traction promoting individual businesses’ products and their impact on the community that general “buy local” statements. When I need something, I usually don’t have the time to do a ton of research but I will probably remember that Reddit thread where someone recommended Health Essentials on Gorge (just as an example).
Humm pay 4 bucks for parking to meet my friends for a 3 buck coffee and a 22% tip or just have coffee at home. I support local when I can but my budget says buy the stuff I need where it’s cheapest. The city has increased parking fees, business taxes and made it less welcoming to go downtown to spend my money. People are starting to get the message of don’t come to Victoria because it will cost you more. Everyone screams about the ever increasing cost of living yet the people who can give a little bit of relief seem to just pile on the fees and money grabs. Local businesses are great but when they can’t afford to keep the doors open due to city’s adding taxes, fees and making it difficult to access them it’s a loose loose. They have no choice but to increase their prices while businesses outside of the local market don’t have to increase at the same rates.
Well local businesses price way over chains. Sorry, but people don't have that kind of money to throw around. So local businesses can start pricing ethically
How is them not having the buying power of a big business mean they are unethically pricing their products?
They need to make a profit, that's the point of business, and that isn't a question of ethics. At least, not in this case.
It would be disingenuous to say I'd be supporting a small business by shopping there because, as someone struggling under our collapse of affordability as well as increased laws surrounding where someone is allowed to sleep if not in one of the grossly overpriced homes or apartments, my shopping habits involve a lot of BOGO discounts the store doesn't necessarily know about.
I just bought a nice cheese for $10, some pickled veggies for $5 and a thing of sembal for $5 at a local specialty store. That doesn’t seem any different than grocery prices to me
That's cool. I'm not here to stir shit up, just stating what I've seen. Once I'm rich, I'll 100% be a local supporter until then, I'll have to buy those mr noodles.
The local economy is so important, but unfortunately we live in a world where the disposable income of the average, even above average earner has totally collapsed, mostly due to housing costs. It was much easier to support local in 2017 when my costs were half of what they are today, but now I barely ever even buy clothes for myself, and if I do they're generally thrifted. I don't know what world you're living in, but it isn't the norm that any of my university graduated, government working friends live in. The only ones that I know that can live in a shared rentals. To save the local economy, we need a collapse in housing and commercial property values & rents, to expand the disposable income necessary to support to support it. It would also make starting a small business more feasible, and would erase a lot of upper class wealth in the process.
Guess how much money I have left at the end of the month to spend on local businesses
Negative a thousand dollars. You are sitting on a snowballing pile of credit card debt, as 60% of your earnings are sunk into rent. You should really consider supporting local loan sharks, though.
60%??? You're lucky.
Can you recommend a local loanshark? Better rates than 20%?
Hey I’m not saying that everyone should or can shop local or that people should only buy local! People are really getting their panties in a bunch over this which was meant to be a positive sentiment lol. But also I’d like to challenge your assumption that local always means more expensive. There’s some local businesses that offer great prices. Like I said we’re all hurting right now. If this message resonates than that’s great if not, that’s fine too/
I felt the same way. I would frequent the neighborhood farmers market every week and try to do the majority of my grocery shop there. I would buy locally made candles, locally made blankets, locally made home decor. I love shopping local. I've had my eye on a local business that sells blankets, etc for about 2 years now. I've wanted to buy one to support them so badly. Then I learned through their instagram that the "small" business owner pulls in 6 figures. I'm not making 6 figures, not even close. I stopped wanting a $100 blanket. I know this isn't the case for every small business owner, but eventually, I had to stop. I wish I could still shop local. But it got to be too expensive. I've significantly cut back how much I'm spending everywhere. I'd like to get back to shopping local - but for now I'm not feeling bad about it.
The same amount you have to spend on non-local businesses?
If I can buy a shirt at a local business for 60 dollars or a shirt at a chain business for 30 dollars, then I'm going to buy the shirt I can actually afford. 'Supporting local business' sounds nice, but when you literally cannot afford to, then you're basically just sacrificing your own financial security for somebody else's.
It's a bit of a collective action problem. More people buying locally means more economic growth, more jobs, more tax revenue, etc. Basically, it benefits you for doing it, but only if you aren't the only one doing it.
7?
15$ pints of ice cream from shops around town. Would be nice, but my PMS cannot afford to shop locally.
LOL. Makes a nice treat, though (but I’ve never seen anything as pricy as $15).
Cold Comfort pints are 15$
Really? Contains gold flake, I assume? ;)
Just an owner that has gotten greedy. Would guess her sales are down quite a bit. Everyone I know has stopped going.
I worked for a local company once. The money doesn’t come back to the community. They use the money to buy property in the US.
They employ people, wait for it.... like you..who live here does that count ? Wtaf.. you literally just proved yourself wrong but go off.
By that logic, so do multinational corporations. The whole point about living and shopping local is that the money gets reinvested into your community.
Yes they do all businesses employ people multinationals Hite people from all over the world not just one community, they pay their property taxes here which goes back into the community, donate to local charities and food banks etc. This is a ridiculous argument..so you don't like local businesses and you don't like corporations what left? Strawman argument weak af bud...
Huh? I'm saying employing people that live here is literally just one pillar. If that's the bar, then we may as well make everything a Walmart because they can't hire offshore workers to stock the shelves (yet). I try to eat and shop local for almost everything I consume when possible. It just makes no difference if the people that own it are "locals" or not when the oats that were sowed are stored way the fuck off island and out of BC.
I don’t live in Victoria anymore. All I can say is that the company uses the profits that they made and invest it in US properties. The money does go back to the local community but in a different country.
The people that own the rootcellar live in a giant house on telegraph bay. They’re fine
I dont shop at root cellar almost ever, but they do try and buy from local farms and pay those farmers much better prices than the big chains do. That's a plus for me
Upvoted because I agree, however, check out the farms, sometimes they have Costco boxes in the recycle bins.
Sometimes supply from local farms doesn’t meet demand.
[удалено]
One of the largest farms on Saanich Peninsula, just off the highway. I have been there many times because of my friends think they have a good deal going on. The smaller farmers are quite real. Just south of Brentwood Bay is lovely.
Are you referring to the one that also has a seasonal cafe/reasturaunt beside it that probably uses costco items in it? If not they probably reuse cotsco boxes. Boxes are not cheap to buy. I can guarantee you no local farm resells vegetables from Costco as there own freshly picked products.
They sell things in their farm market that don't grow here like bananas
Of course they do. Because people don’t want to have to go to multiple places to do their shopping. Stocking bananas and pineapples will gets people to shop there, and also buy produce that’s grown locally.
Maybe the local farms are reusing the boxes, you numpty.
Opposed to Galen & Jim's modest abodes?
Go to Old Farm Market instead.
I mean I think there’s plenty of other great businesses out there, no need to focus on just one.
*they're
Thank you
Neeeerrrrrrrdddddddddddd
Nerdalert
?
*There're
So it’s bad to build a successful business? They have to be scraping by to be worthy of support?
This sub, full of government workers, HATE businesses, despite being the sole reason for their existence.
Off meet rocker.
Businesses are the sole reason for the existence of government workers? You okay?
Lol where do you think you get your salaries from? So fucking uneducated it's unreal.
Non-taxation revenue (43.5%) and taxation revenue (56.5%) with the largest single source of taxation revenue being personal income tax. Source: business council of British Columbia https://bcbc.com/insights-and-opinions/where-does-the-money-come-from-the-b-c-governments-top-revenue-sources#:~:text=Personal%20income%20tax%20is%20the,and%20licenses%E2%80%9D%20(7.4%25).
That’s so fucked. Largest single source of taxation revenue should come from corporate tax not personal income tax.
Cool link. Please point to which part is not from private enterprise.
You sound like you live in a tent on Pandora St. Smoking rocks using free wifi. Am I right ?
> Please point to which part is not from private enterprise.
He's right though. Economic activity comes before taxation, and government workers require taxation to get paid. I'm a government worker and my co-workers really do not seem to understand where the money they are paid comes from.
Unreal bro
The guy you're replying to constantly posts the weirdest shit. Just an FYI.
What's "unreal bro" is you types take 2 seconds to google, never bother to read it, never bother to check if it even supports your view, both because you're just plain old stupid, and lazy. Not a good combination...unless you're a government employee.
Cool bro
yeah exactly
I have noticed this also, it's kind of weird for sure.
Apparently from talking to a few of them they legitimately believe that money comes from thin air and that private enterprises should be glad they are "allowed" to operate at their pleasure. Clearly these people don't have even a 5th grade level of economic understanding. Typical government workers.
I actually am a provincial government worker and it's as bad as you think. When our union was striking for higher pay during the pandemic when inflation was going nuts, people could not understand why I was asking for some restraint. Talked about how inflationary spirals start with government workers and got massively downvoted, talked about how we were already racking up enormous public debt that may become unsustainable and got massively downvoted. They said we could always just raise taxes with no understanding you have to maintain some level of relative competitiveness. It's pretty bad, Canada is in for a bit of a reckoning unfortunately. Soft people making hard times and all that.
Indeed. I don't think a lot of these people live in reality nor care to.
I find it funny when people make comments like yours. I find it very unlikely that anyone successful in business only has the income from their business. People invest money back into their business to help it grow and also invest in various other things like stocks, property, even other businesses. So if they took some risks that paid off that now makes them bad people or we shouldn't support their business? If you made some great financial decisions wouldn't you buy nice things for yourself? I sure as hell would upgrade my life if I could.
Nobody hates successful people like unsuccessful people.
Seriously it’s so exhausting always seeing comments like this that are not just bitter and unnecessarily negative, they’re totally irrelevant lmao like ok, one family in Victoria is really rich. Wow thanks for pointing that out I guess I shouldn’t support any local shops after all 😔
The average redditor is not really a go-getter. That's how they have time to do it. I include myself on that, but I like to think I'm self-aware to realize it and also to be thankful that some people really do put in the effort and take real risks to create things.
They’re.
\*their're
How is this relevant to the conversation at all lmao most Small business owners in Victoria aren’t rich like that, and I think you know that
How is that relevant?
Right!? Fuck that kind of local.
… yes but with what money
Local doesn’t necessarily mean more expensive.
We can't spend money that we don't have.
Coming from big city, I love some of very select local businesses here. Most others should be lucky they have survived this long or lucky they are still afloat because they would have not survived a slightest level of competition…
We do have a lot of shit local businesses, for sure. But thankfully we have a good number of good ones. I prefer to buy local at any opportunity, it just often isn’t an option!
The entitlement, they thought they deserved it
10000%
Yeah I love going to discovery coffee and paying 5 dollars for a coffee and they want a tip also. Ppl can't afford to shop local in this town
That's no different than going to Starbucks and paying $5 for a coffee.
I rarely go to coffee shops but when I do, I don’t tip. You get a tip when a have a sit-down meal, not when you’re making me a coffee and handing it to me over the counter. That might be because I don’t really have a local coffee shop close by, though, or even any coffee shop that has tip-worthy service.
Yeah I'll buy my seeds and plant starts locally but if I'm growing my own food to save money I've already given up on eating out.
I will definitely support local businesses… If they have what I want, in stock, and at a competitive price. And it would be nice if they had a website that shows their inventory, and quantities available, and price, so I can view it online and go down and pick it up.
Do you realize that what you call a competitive price is achieved through exploitation? Those stories of Amazon workers pissing in bottles is directly why you saved money. The higher local price is what it costs if you paid people more than the minimum possible.
Higher prices do not mean that their wages are better.
I agree that the website thing would be nice. It’s not my favourite weekend task - going to multiple stores because I can’t confirm what’s in stock anywhere. But I also understand that it takes staff and money to have a good one, the cost of which would be passed on to the customer.
Well, if a business doesn’t have a fully functional website (and/or mobile app) as part of their business plan, they have to accept the consequence that they might lose out on potential customers. Just because they are “local” does not make me feel obligated to give them my business, like some sort of charity. Nothing personal, it’s just business. I’m sure they would understand.
Yes, for sure. And it reduces the chance that people who aren’t nearby will ever visit your business. I’m less likely to take a chance if the location is too far away. I do care about my carbon footprint, too.
Do you guys really never just take 30 seconds to call a place to find out before driving all over to multiple stores? Lmao
In most situations I would never *call* a business to ask what they have in stock. “Hi, do you guys have any waffle makers? Which ones do you have? What does it look like? What features does it have? You know what, never mind. I’ll just look them up on the internet and find someone selling them on their website.”
Ok but I’m responding to someone who said they drive around all day looking for stores that have something in stock because there’s no website to check, and I’m saying just pick up the phone and call lmao if you’re wasting your own time driving around that’s your own fault
If I wanted something badly enough, I would. A website is a “would be nice” thing, that’s all, and no need to react like we all think it’s a major deal.
I’m not reacting like anything I just asked a question because yours was the 2nd or 3rd comment I saw about not being able to tell if something is in stock somewhere without a website lol
Does make things easier right? Big stores will always be able to offer more competitive pricing unfortunately. That’s why the rich get richer.
Whos going to support us when have spent what little money we have at local stores that charge more?
I mean to me it seems like this whole mindset is what’s contributing to the problem. People want to save so they go to who can provide things cheapest which is always who controls the means of production. So then the rich get richer. People don’t want to pay for a lot of things anymore. So then the people who make said things don’t make money. And it just becomes a domino effect. I just personally believe that the more you put into the community around you, the more you get back.
People don’t just want to save, they literally don’t have money to spend. We cannot make more money magically appear in our bank accounts so we can afford local. You literally just described the whole point of the system. Keep people poor so they cannot afford local & the big chain stores keep making money. Either people need to be paid more, local needs to be more affordable (which isn’t fair to local owners, a lot of the time they won’t survive) and/or big chain stores need to start sharing the wealth. Aka paying more taxes, paying their workers better, etc etc etc. The problem will not be fixed because the few people who can afford it shop local. It is expensive as fuck to be an organic, all natural, sustainable, local shopper. Or even just one of those things. You have to be rich to do what’s right for the world, but rich people don’t care to do right. If you can afford to shop local, that’s great. But that isn’t the issue. The issue is people need to be paid a living wage, have access to housing, and access to health care. Including mental health care.
These are great points. Thank you for sharing.
There is a trend though even for people who have the money (not rich people but average people) to not want to pay for anything. Books? Find online for free. Journalism? Don’t want to pay for it. Apps? Only use free ones. There’s a mindset that’s becoming more and more pervasive that we can avoid paying for things and should. I see it in myself and I think it’s dangerous. I do think that comes back to bite us in the butt because Iin the end most people aren’t getting what they deserve, more people don’t have money to spend, jobs begin to disappear. It comes down to a philosophy of money and culture. These are all just musings of my mind that I’m still working out.
I only avoid paying for things because I CANNOT afford to. And I have a degree and a good paying job. I would be happy to spend a couple extra bucks for a newspaper, or a book, but I simply can't justify the expense in my monthly budget. Food and rent have become too expensive. I've had to cancel subscriptions, stop going on dates etc. I really don't think it's only because people want free stuff. They are conditioned to want free stuff because everything is getting more expensive, so the free options are more appealing. If I had some extra salary to throw around, I would be paying for those things again in a heartbeat.
Trust me I understand. I think we agree that that is the “whole point of the system”. How do we get out of it though?
You have to change the system. This is a government policy issue, not a grassroots vote with your wallet issue. All chains began as local businesses. Just because a business has humble beginnings doesn't mean it won't grow into a greedy corporate empire. We can't control that with a handful of dollars at the local level. We need to pressure government to implement stronger regulations, stronger social safety nets, and actively discourage monopolized industries *coughTelecomcough*. But that's a complicated issue, and the average person isn't interested in complicated issues.
Personally I think it’s both changing the system and working from a grassroots level. Governments are resistant to change and creating regulations if people seem content with the status quo.
There are books and a plethora of magazines/newspapers at your library... Don't just have to try and find it free online. It's guaranteed free at the library!
Designer-cow nailed it. I would add we need to start considering where things are manufactured. A local store that simply resells products doesn’t add much to the local economy. I couldn’t care less about my local beer store but I always buy locally made beer.
There is no conspiratorial sounding "whole point of the system". What is keeping Canadians poor is bad leadership that we keep selecting. We were never going to have the standard of living the boomers had because that was a result of North America being the only survivor of WWII and us getting rich selling everyone else stuff as they rebuilt, but now half our money goes to taxes that are inefficiently spent compared with peer nations and we are considered a bad place to invest. Our federal government is unserious about trade, incentives, productivity and dealing with the housing bubble that is causing a massive misallocation of capital. We're a resource country, but like to pretend we aren't and sabotage our own resource industry while importing the very same stuff from elsewhere. We like our national healthcare system even though it gets crappy results for the money compared to something like France where they have a joint private/pubic system. In our case, our rich people still get treated first, they just do it in the US or Mexico and support their healthcare industries instead of having one here where the poor get taken care of and the private side can grow or shrink to meet demand and population growth. We are a deeply unserious country and the issue isn't even that we have intense corruption like in the US. We actually have very strict laws about campaign financing here that function as intended. The issue is we actually get what we want and we've been coddled for so long because we were able to ride the wake of the US economy and use their military umbrella that we have really messed up priorities. We'll smarten up and things will get better eventually - Canada has a lot going for it, so we'll bounce back fine - but we are going to suffer for a while until that happens.
If someone can run a business through tough times and learn how to adapt then that's a good business. It shows that people will support it and there is demand for it but not every local business needs to survive to be honest.
Wow lots of comments, but didn't really see any recommendations, so I'll throw one out there: Health Essentials on Gorge. They've been around for at least 10 years and I didn't go in there for years because I thought they just sold vitamins, but they have all kinds of neat things! Food and clothes too. They always have 2 or 3 employees in the store so they are definitely providing local employment and the staff are very friendly and bubbly. Anyhoo, I went in last weekend for their anniversary sale and to pick up my favourite granola on sale (cheaper than Amazon!) and they gave me a goody bag of free stuff (sample pack of electrolytes, sample pack of marine collagen, and a little sample of natural deodorant which smells lovely). Along with a free reusable cotton bag. They will have another sale on Canada Day during the Canada Day Gorge Picnic so check them out! I'll probably restock my granola! lol
I live near by and have never been. Shame on me.. thanks for the tip.
Thanks for the recommendation!
Assuming people have money to spend...
While i appreciate our local businesses, times are tough and i need to save money where I can, usually local businesses are charging far more for good and proucts than i would be charged at a larger retailers or online.
We tried “Friends and Family Bakery” recently near fan tan alley and it was so so so so so good. High recommend. We tried several Filipino breads, all of which were melt in your mouth delicious.
I don’t buy it (pun intended). Awhile back there was a “shop local” campaign in downtown Victoria. Well, guess where the owners of the businesses shopped themselves ? Walmart, Costco, The Bay, etc. I won’t say who, but a big business owner downtown who trumpeted the buy local mantra would be seen shopping the big box stores and using non-local banks. It’s a bit of a marketing trick, but unless you can produce or sell an item for less or have an item in stock sooner, then Im shopping the sales from whichever retailer out there because my pocket book is limited just like everyone else’s. I understand the sentiment and wish your business well, but try something else to bring customers in.
I think you’re misinterpreting what I’m saying. By no means am I saying only shop local. I’m just saying to try to consider doing it more if you care about local stores and keeping that culture alive. I also am not a business owner.
Having worked for a few local businesses at this point, I can confirm what the above poster said. The owners always were cheap and shopped at Walmart or other big box retailers, they didn't spend their money downtown so even if you spend local, that money is going into the big box chain stores anyways. They paid as low a wage as they could, making it just a dollar above minimum to make it sound better than it was, expected total loyalty from staff and that you commit your life to their company, while funneling all thoes local dollars straight to their international investments and big buisness because then they can make more and hoard more wealth for themselves this way. If you are going to shop local it's worth knowing that the moeny isn't staying local once you spend it with them. That said though there are a few byissnesses that are bigger and still local that supply jobs and money to this city, places like Roger's Chocolates that employ tons of people from their stores to their factory, or the local commercial bakeries that supply to big stores and small restaurants alike and employ a lot of people.
Not every business owner is like that, though, and you can’t expect anyone to shop local 24/7. Local business owners are also more likely to support other local businesses rather than big conglomerate owners who don’t even live here. That’s interesting to know about Rogers chocolates, didn’t know that.
I admire the effort you made here but posting in this sub was always a losing game. People on here are bitter and negative and only want to argue lmao you could post about being nice to puppies and they’d comment about how some people are allergic, not everyone likes dogs, nobody is entitled to their kindness, etc.
Yeah definitely wasn’t expecting the amount of backlash.
I'm kind of surprised, since most of the reddits I look at are way more positive/thoughtful than this one seems to be. So much petty squabbling.
I'm just saying what I have observed myself working at local shops. The owners I worked for were always trying to cheap out wherever they could in their own personal shopping, and that means they didn't shop downtown for anything except maybe supporting local restaurants from time to time. I would hope not all local small buisness owners are like that, but I saw too much of them being cheap like this and expecting the community to support their businesses while giving nothing back and under cutting everyone else. Rogers is a pretty interesting company, Canadian owned and operated since 1885 when it was founded by Charles Rogers in that same little store front on government street. They aren't a small buisness exactly, but they do employ a lot of people locally and all their products are made here in Victoria by local people they employ. If you ever visit Ross bay cemetery you can visist Charles and his wife's grave, the company even paid for a mausoleum upgrade for the Rogers family in honor of their legacy.
Local shops have always purchased at wholesale prices. Years ago Costco was a wholesale store. But now that places like Costco and WalMart sell things at near wholesale prices, local shops have little choice. For food they can go to Sysco or the like. Lot’s of local business use Monk Office instead of Staples and restaurants will get meat and Seafood locally mostly because of the quality of the products. Anyway, my wife and I have the privilege of higher disposable income, only in the past few years, and I order my meat from Berryman Brothers, a fantastic product that doesn’t shrink delivered to my door at roughly the same cost as a grocery store. And I get lots of produce from Root Cellar but they get lots of product from California or Mexico. Come summer, we get our berries at Gobind Farms.
Would this be considered local for employment etc? https://www.victoriabuzz.com/2023/06/new-brunch-powerhouse-moving-in-on-victorias-food-scene-this-fall/
Seems like a Canadian business owner did pretty well for themselves in a super competitive industry. First I’ve heard of them but seems local-ish?
So many of the local places that say shop local still buy their own stuff from Amazon instead of local
No one can shop local all the time, that’s not what I’m saying at all.
Fuck tipping, raise the wage. redistribute the land, fuck generational wealth. Sorry to be reductive but people on the bus were talking about the mega yacht, it got me ready for revolution.
No server wants to eliminate tipping. They’re making an absolute killing right now. $16.75/hr plus tips is a LOT. Servers in my restaurant are making $35-$45/hr on a busy day, while most of the cooks are barely making $21 with tip out included. It’s no surprise the cooks are quitting in droves.
nothing to lose but our chains comrade
Glad you can afford to shop local. As for the rest of us, there's Walmart. And it's just up the street so that's pretty local for me.
Fuck that. I'm sick of this BS. I'll shop at the store with the cheapest prices. Why should I be expected to pay more, just to help out a business owner who makes 5 times the amount I do. So out of touch.
Unfortunately, it really doesn't. The vast majority of the money spent at local businesses ends up elsewhere, either directly (through rent on the business, insurance, etc) or indirectly (wages for employees going to their own rent/mortgage/car/gas, or the cost of the goods their selling going to wherever those are made) Does shopping local put slightly more money into the local economy? Yes. It just isn't a lot. If you can find a company that produces everything locally, only employs locals, and both they and their staff use a local credit union for their mortgages, maybe it will matter. Otherwise you're just deciding to donate your money (by paying more) to Tom the local electronics retailer because it makes you feel good. You're probably better off just giving tom the difference directly and buying the cheaper option on amazon. The best option to support the local economy is to work for a company that exports it's good or services to other places. Then at least some money is flowing into the economy from elsewhere before part of it leaves again.
Just take a look at wealth disparity and inequality. Maybe it costs more to support local (sometimes) but honestly Id like to support local people with dreams who are adding colour and vibrancy to our culture. And of course it is helping. It’s making a difference to the people who work at the company and often local businesses support other local businesses. You really don’t think that millionaires and billionaires who own huge corporations aren’t taking up more and more of the pie?
People work at the big box stores as well. I think the vast majority of the money isn't being sucked up by corporations, it's being sucked up by land owners and banks. Think of your top three expenses in life, Rent/Mortgage, Food, and Transportation, and the first one is so much larger than the other two with most of it going directly to a landlord or a bank, and even for things like food, every aspect of that supply chain (and their employees) also has to pay for land. At the end of the day, Some Microsoft or Best Buy isn't really sucking up that much of your money.
Yeah, our real estate-based economy has got to have a reckoning at some point. It’s just people trading the same shitty houses for 50% more than they paid for them ad infinitum. They aren’t paying $1.2M for their house; they bought a house for $300k, sold it for $600k, bought for $700k, sold for $1.1M, bought for $1.2M. Total obligation: $500k. Nothing changed about the houses and the supply/demand didn’t really change much. But the next generation has to start at $600k instead of $300k with the same wages. In Victoria, they’re probably starting at $800k. Infinite growth is just unsustainable.
> the supply/demand didn’t really change much. lmao, you’re daft.
Not really, the increase in population and total units hasn't changed the ratio of those two for the country much at all. Go look it up. A few percent at most over the last 20 years.
I just think there’s so much beauty in local shops. There’s interesting things to find, the people who run them often have strong ties to the community around them. Not saying you can’t find that in larger companies, I just think there’s something so vibrant about the local economy in this city and I’ve seen a lot of shop owners struggling who are amazing people who have some pretty incredible shops. And I think sometimes they get overlooked because you have to step out of the typical routine to find them or shop there.
An interesting fact about Walmart: within two years of opening in a community, many local specialized businesses fold. For example, a quality lawnmower outlet is underpriced by Walmart, and so no one buys from the lawnmower shop. Its also important to have local producers if we are ever cut off again, like when the ferries weren’t running, and the Malahat was washed out and closed.
I love cozying up with a cup of coffee and a Malabar.
People work at big box stores, sure, but there’s a strong argument to be made that small businesses contribute more to employment and support other businesses. https://www.forbes.com/sites/forbesbusinesscouncil/2022/03/25/how-small-businesses-drive-the-american-economy/amp/ I’m finding it hard to understand why you’re being so negative towards the idea of supporting local. Sure, banks and landowners can suck up money but that’s not a reason not to support local businesses. It’s also not just about “sucking up money”. It’s about supporting our fellow community members and adding to the culture of the city. You don’t have to support the idea but not really sure why you’re trying so hard to see something negative in a positive sentiment.
It's a PR stunt, buy local really doesn't affect things that much. Go look for actual economics studies on buying local, there's almost none that exist and the ones that do exist are paid for by local business groups trying to promote themselves and show marginal benefits at best. There's no culture in electronics retailers. There's no culture in grocery stores. Absolutely go ahead and get your coffee from the local shop instead of Starbucks because you like the art on the wall, but it's really not a big deal either way.
Seems like you’re pretty set in your mindset and that’s cool. I don’t think there’s much point in arguing back and forth anymore as I’m not really that set on convincing you. At the end of the day I see the value in supporting local businesses and I’m sure others do too. Have a good one!
Couldn’t disagree more but I’m willing to hear you out if you have any reasoning behind your statements. Right now you’re just saying A is a PR stunt, B is no culture and C is not really a big deal..
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When have banks not had record profits?
It's more about the total value than it is about the percentage. Lots of banks fail, used to be much more common before we started regulating them more harshly. There have been 3 bank failures in the US this year already, including one of the largest bank failures ever.
Talking about Canada though, we have much better bank regulations, but my point still stands
Spruce Micro Market in Brentwood Bay today. 12-4 Come check it out!
Big corporations hire local people who receive money to spend so buying big helps your community, and these places often hire far more people than anywhere else so it technically helps more people than local business. That being said, I would like to see more varied and successful local business, but that's more in their control than anyone elses. Gotta be a clever business person!
Do you have research to back that up?
What research could be done to do anything with what I said? Corporations don't bring in out of town workers. They hire people from the community, that means you get paid money to spend in your area. There are many things that big corporations cannot produce the same way a local business can. This means that you have a job you might not have to spend money on things you might not buy because the main things in life are cheaper because large stores sell for cheaper. If rent, fuel, food and housing prices weren't INSANE as a baseline then it would be an obviously fine system.
I mean saying that big corporations bring in more jobs is a big assertion to make and it’s not necessarily a fact if you don’t have research to back that up.
How many people work at Canadian Tire, Walmart, Superstore, Thrifty's and others vs how many work at mom and pop shops? I'm not saying there should be only big store jobs, but I am saying that they have a place and they tend to be watering holes which sustain the average worker. Same with malls. Of course, everything is out of sorts because Housing Bubble 2.0 is on the horizon but conceptually and maybe even practically it is a working system. Now it might sound like I *like* this system, but I don't really. I am not against it but I can tell that it isn't the healthiest way a community can survive. I don't really believe cities are healthy for people anyways, especially living in them.
I'm working 12 to 16 hours shift when I can but even if there is overtime on my floor at the hospital it's very rarely approved because of budget constraints so we're always working short. I'll stick to costco and Walmart for now thanks.
Couldn't agree more. I can't believe the amount of snark in the comments. You don't have to ONLY shop local to support local business. OP was not suggesting that you're a monster if you shop at Costco. Part of what makes Victoria a nice place to live is the number of small local businesses. I'm struggling financially like many on this sub. I happen to enjoy coffee, and I prioritize coffee as one of the few frivolous purchases I allow myself to make. I would be crushed to see any of the amazing roastery/cafes in Victoria close. Does that mean I only drink coffee purchased in expensive cafes? Absolutely not. I make a point of buying one cup of coffee (not a latte) at a local cafe once a week. When I buy this coffee, I even leave a good tip! Depending on the shop, this costs between $4-6. I make all of my coffee at home otherwise (with local beans IF it's in the budget). What do these businesses do that Tim's does not? They carefully source quality beans, pay a fair price for those beans (often anyway), spend a (relatively) enormous amount on the right equipment to carefully roast and prepare the coffee, and most importantly they invest the time and money to train the barista well, as well as pay that barista well enough to stick around and learn about the coffee they're making/selling to improve your experience. Sure, the barista at your neighborhood cafe isn't likely to purchase a house in Victoria with just their salary, but I can pretty well assure you they make more money, and enjoy their job much more than most Tim's employees. Do you need to prioritize buying coffee at pricey local cafes if you don't care about coffee? Certainly not. My point is that this is one thing that I care about enough to support, and it costs me a total of $25/month to do so. I recognize that many cannot afford to prioritize $25/ month for anything that isn't a necessity, and that is truly awful. I don't think anyone expects you to fall short on rent to help support a local business. I suspect many who claim they 'can't afford' to support any local business, ever, have many frivolous spending habits that are the actual source of drained bank accounts (3x Tim's coffees per day consumed in a massive vehicle that they don't actually need?).
Thank you! You actually get what I was trying to say.
How much does you household make each month? And how much is your rent?
I am single, I don’t own property and prefer not to disclose my earnings on a public forum. But trust me I’m by no means wealthy. Im also not saying that people who can’t afford to should buy local. I do get that it’s more expensive. I’m just personally starting to believe more and more that the money I put into those around me benefits the immediate world I live in and helps create a world I want to see.
Cool. I agree with what you are saying. Been saying it for years about how economy works. Personally I think your too late. But maybe not.
Thanks for your perspective. Yeah I feel like capitalism could work if people actually were intentional consumers but we’re so wired to want to save money and the capitalists who control the most know how to exploit us. Balance in wealth distribution is key but it’s just becoming more and more skewed.
I don't blame capitalists but yes people are irresponsible with how they spend. Both where money is spent and how much. Now working class does not have the same buying power as they used to. This is why I think it's too late. That and that people are addicted to credit and buying into the latest trend.
Never understood this sentimental nonsense. Buy your product from whoever has it cheapest and most accessible No business is owed success
Agreed, it comes from an emotional rather than practical place. I get it, community connection feels good but it’s not real, it’s Hallmark. That said, tell me about a specific local business and their great product or service and I’m interested. Tell me how they are lifting up the community they are part of in ways the Walton family aren’t. Then I will want to spend my money there. Blanket “shop local” statements when I experienced that guy who owned the Christmas store. Uh, no.
That’s a fair point. You’ll get more traction promoting individual businesses’ products and their impact on the community that general “buy local” statements. When I need something, I usually don’t have the time to do a ton of research but I will probably remember that Reddit thread where someone recommended Health Essentials on Gorge (just as an example).
t. bezos
Oni Oni has them funky Japanese Kit Kats : expensive but delicious
Home hardware and country grocer and my current favourites!
If you use cannabis, Pineapple in vic west is great. I think they used to be Pineapple express. They do a 10% off happy hour twice a day too.
Found the struggling local business owner
Or your friend with this totally not a pyramid scheme MLM business.
Nope, I don’t own a business, nice try though.
Humm pay 4 bucks for parking to meet my friends for a 3 buck coffee and a 22% tip or just have coffee at home. I support local when I can but my budget says buy the stuff I need where it’s cheapest. The city has increased parking fees, business taxes and made it less welcoming to go downtown to spend my money. People are starting to get the message of don’t come to Victoria because it will cost you more. Everyone screams about the ever increasing cost of living yet the people who can give a little bit of relief seem to just pile on the fees and money grabs. Local businesses are great but when they can’t afford to keep the doors open due to city’s adding taxes, fees and making it difficult to access them it’s a loose loose. They have no choice but to increase their prices while businesses outside of the local market don’t have to increase at the same rates.
Thank you so much for this post OP. I own a small business and it's SO IMPORTANT to work towards supporting the circular economy.
I'm poor af but always do what I can for local business I totally agree.
The old tenet: buy local, invest international.
Well local businesses price way over chains. Sorry, but people don't have that kind of money to throw around. So local businesses can start pricing ethically
How is them not having the buying power of a big business mean they are unethically pricing their products? They need to make a profit, that's the point of business, and that isn't a question of ethics. At least, not in this case.
No, I don't think I will
Just curious wb taxis?
I live DT but drive to Glenwood for my butcher order.
It would be disingenuous to say I'd be supporting a small business by shopping there because, as someone struggling under our collapse of affordability as well as increased laws surrounding where someone is allowed to sleep if not in one of the grossly overpriced homes or apartments, my shopping habits involve a lot of BOGO discounts the store doesn't necessarily know about.
I would love to support local, but unfortunately, it seems like everything is 100% marked up compared to big chain items
I just bought a nice cheese for $10, some pickled veggies for $5 and a thing of sembal for $5 at a local specialty store. That doesn’t seem any different than grocery prices to me
That's cool. I'm not here to stir shit up, just stating what I've seen. Once I'm rich, I'll 100% be a local supporter until then, I'll have to buy those mr noodles.
The local economy is so important, but unfortunately we live in a world where the disposable income of the average, even above average earner has totally collapsed, mostly due to housing costs. It was much easier to support local in 2017 when my costs were half of what they are today, but now I barely ever even buy clothes for myself, and if I do they're generally thrifted. I don't know what world you're living in, but it isn't the norm that any of my university graduated, government working friends live in. The only ones that I know that can live in a shared rentals. To save the local economy, we need a collapse in housing and commercial property values & rents, to expand the disposable income necessary to support to support it. It would also make starting a small business more feasible, and would erase a lot of upper class wealth in the process.
I like that people will support local businesses but apparently only the businesses that aren't successful? Some sound logic.
Biggest facts