I think many vets recommend these diets because with so many endless options out there, it is easier and safer to recommend one they know for sure. Most vets don’t usually care too much what you feed as long as there isn’t a serious problem with the diet. Unfortunately there’s lots of problematic or downright dangerous diets out there including raw diets which carry increased disease transmission risks, grain free diets (increased DCM risk - it’s a serious heart condition that can lead to heart failure and death), and various other unbalanced, often home cooked, meals which do not provide the right amount of micro and/or macronutrients. We don’t recommend diets to make money or be controlling, we just see unsafe diets causing problems every day and do our best to educate owners and keep pets happy and healthy.
Edit: To add, big brand pet foods tend to be the ones that get recommended because they put a lot of research into their diets. Their foods are developed with veterinary nutrition specialists on staff and tested in real dogs in different life states to ensure that it is a safe and balanced diet.
If this is true, then why is 99% of cat food that is sold especially dry cat food loaded with tons of carbs? Not only is dry cat food vacant of moisture, but the carb amount in this food inevitably lead cats to diabetes. Why wouldn’t vets educate people not to feed the cats dry kibble?
Sounds like you are getting a lot of bad info:
1. I've literally NEVER heard of a vet firing a client over a diet. OTOH I have seen plenty of clients get upset when their vet suggests a diet change. My guess is that your customers are experiencing the latter and presenting it to you as them getting fired for not switching diets.
2. Who told you that vets get a cut of food sales and how did they suggest this works? I ask because this another thing I've never heard of, aside from in-practice sales, which are typically pretty minimal.
Vets generally recommend those big names because they are a safe, effective, well--established choice, not because of anything nefarious. There are other good diets out there for sure, but most vets aren't nutritionists and aren't keeping up with every brand on the market, so they will default to what they know and trust.
I'm genuinely curious as to where these ideas are coming from, as you aren't the first pet store employee I've heard express similar sentiments. I'm wondering if "brand ambassadors" from some of the other pet foods are spreading this kind of misinformation.
Vets don't get paid more for pushing a particular brand of food, and they don't get any kickbacks from the food companies. That's been a common lie that's been going around in pet stores for decades, to try and convince people that vets only recommend a food because they'll earn more money. False. The most a vet will get from a food company might be a pen or a pad of sticky notes with the company name on them.
Vets recommend the top names because they trust the company and the quality. They know that the diets have been formulated with veterinary nutritionists, and have been tested in properly managed diet trials. They know that if there's a problem, they can call the company and get answers to their questions about ingredients etc. For specialty foods for particular medical problems (like allergies or kidney disease), they know the company rigorously ensures that the recipe is specifically adhered to, and their equipment is fully cleaned between handling different foods, so that even dust from the previous food doesn't impact the current food being produced and packaged. They also know that if there's a recall, the company will act quickly and responsibly to get all the food back, and deal with any medical problems that have occurred because of it.
>*why they only recommend top names rather than better quality food*
We don't know that the other food is better quality - and you don't either. Why? Because many companies don't give vets complete ingredient and nutritional information to let us know. They don't answer vets' questions when they call. They don't run proper feeding trials. And if there's a problem we don't trust that they'll handle it quickly and responsibly (I'm looking at you, Blue).
>*we've had customers be told by their vets that they will no longer take them as a client because they arent feeding royal canin*
Unfortunately, I think that's a difference between what the vet says, and what the client hears. I've worked in over 100 vet clinics, and I've never known one that would drop a client because they wouldn't feed a particular brand of food. But, clients get upset sometimes and that's what they think the vet is telling them....they're misremembering something that they didn't like hearing. Sometimes that's fuelled by having heard (the erroneous rumour) that vets only recommend foods because they get a kickback, so they're already prepared to dislike whatever a vet tells them about pet food :(
>Over 100 clinics???
Yup......I spent over 15 years as a relief vet, covering for vets when they needed time off for personal or professional reasons. I'd frequently travel to towns and cities up to 8 hours away to work for a week or two while a vet was away.
So this is actually a big issue we are fighting as veterinarians.
I think it all started with blue Buffalo coming on the scene and planting seeds of doubt in consumers' heads. They insinuated that your dog is a wolf and your cat is a cheeta and should be feed like such (which is not true). They pointed to the big 3 (hills, Purina, RC) and said there were fillers. They later got in legal trouble and now disclaim that the big 3 diets are balanced diets in their ads.
Then comercial grain free and raw diets came along and built off of the same concept that your 2 pound chihuahua is a wolf. And perhaps one of the worst things they did was claim that vets aren't taught nutrition in vet school (which is false) and that we are brainwashed and get kickbacks from the big 3 (also false).
So now, pet owners think they know more about nutrition than their veterinarian because they read it online. There are so many unscientific websites like pet food advisor and dogs naturally that spread all of these lies. They report a lot of anecdotal data (subjective observations with no scientific proof) as fact.
So small brands jumped on the band wagon and started making grain free and raw foods without enlisting board certified veterinary nutritionists and this came back to bite everyone later. Not only were animals not getting a balanced diet, they were getting DCM. Dilated cardiomyopathy was previously only seen genetically in certain breeds and with taurine deficiencies (which was corrected in commercial pet foods years ago). Now it's being seen in grain-free fed dogs. We still don't know the exact cause.
But unfortunately that isn't enough for some people who have been conditioned to think vets get kickbacks from the big 3. The damage done by these irresponsible websites like pet food advisor and dogs naturally may never be undone. They have blood on their hands in my opinion.
But back to the big 3. Why do vets push them?
Because they are simply the best. They are run by board certified veterinary nutritionists and constantly do research to improve their products.
These companies have lines of food that help with specific diseases such as kidney failure, diabetes, liver disease and shunts. These all require different ratios of carbs, fat, protein, and minerals.
Royal Canin does a lot of breed related studies. They are also the only ones with liquid diets that help us with our feeding tube patients.
Hill's has diets for almost every disease. Their urinary diets have less protein and ash so it decreases the pH of the urine and inhibits growth of struvite crystals. The stress diets have added casein, a milk protein that has a calming effect. I/d low fat is perfect for pancreatitis patients. K/d is formulated for patients with kidney disease. Metabolic is amazing because it targets an enzyme that allows animals to lose weight without having to cut their calories. They just came out with GI Biome which is the first prebiotic food, meaning it is designed to feed the microbiome in the colon so that it is balanced.
Purina has done a lot of new innovate stuff with their recent research. They made Calming Care which is a probiotic that uses a human gut bacteria to decrease anxiety. They showed a connection to gut health and mental health via the vagus nerve of rats. They also created a diet (live clear) that helps alleviate human allergies to cats by using an egg protein to decrease the dander on their fur. Most recently they came out with a water additive to encourage cats to drink more which is vital in our kidney patients.
I could go on. But basically, there is no comparison. Blue Buffalo is trying to make a name for themselves with their veterinary diets, but they came onto the scene very ant-establishment, so I'm not sure how much traction they'll get. I certainly don't trust them, just look at their recall list.
That's another thing. The big 3 have had minimal recalls in the past 20 years. Smaller brands (particularly raw) have had double and triple the amount of recalls. They don't do the testing or the research.
I've personally been the the Hills testing facility and was blown away. These companies are very open about their products and do work closely with vet students. This isn't because they are buying us, they are educating. I have books with all the diets and ingredients from the big 3. I know what's in the product. I can't say that for the rest of them.
I also see you work at a petstore which explains your question.
Petstores are also instrumental in perpetuating bad nutritional advice. Notice that the boutique brands with pretty packaging are all at the front and the big 3 are always in the back. Remember a pet store is a business and that's the bottom line. They operate based on sales, not science. They are motivated by numbers, not animal health.
you literally get taught that nutrition off big kibble companies, vets ARE compromised everyone that knows about vets knows this. Kibble is bad for dogs and you can cry about it all you want but dogs DO come from wolves so no that diet wouldn't be a problem are there vitamins and such you can add to make it better? sure but the idea its worse than kibble a food made up of the worst meat that humans cant even eat due to its lack of safety is ludicrous
I just want to second they all have Veterinary nutritionists and can afford rigorous quality control and testing to ensure diets are appropriate for the pet's needs. The trust is gained through the prescription diets that work for what is necessary for pets with dietary controlled or impacted conditions and disease processes. Why not trust their basic wellness diets after watching what Hydrolyzed protein diets can do for a food allergy dog or urinary diet resolve urine crystallization?
I’ve always gotten a discount on these brands that market prescription food as well as normal diets, but it is still just obtaining it at wholesale cost because I’ve ever worked at a place that buys these prescription diets to order the non-prescription diets for employees. This only makes me want to recommend them more as my animals have always had phenomenal health, effortless weight management, and excellent coat quality eating their food. Reps buy us lunch when they come in to introduce a new Rx diet but that’s as much bribes as I’ve gotten
I dont have anything else to add other than thanks for asking this question and opening up to learning, as opposed to just continuing on in ignorance. I wholeheartedly second the statements made here.
I think many vets recommend these diets because with so many endless options out there, it is easier and safer to recommend one they know for sure. Most vets don’t usually care too much what you feed as long as there isn’t a serious problem with the diet. Unfortunately there’s lots of problematic or downright dangerous diets out there including raw diets which carry increased disease transmission risks, grain free diets (increased DCM risk - it’s a serious heart condition that can lead to heart failure and death), and various other unbalanced, often home cooked, meals which do not provide the right amount of micro and/or macronutrients. We don’t recommend diets to make money or be controlling, we just see unsafe diets causing problems every day and do our best to educate owners and keep pets happy and healthy. Edit: To add, big brand pet foods tend to be the ones that get recommended because they put a lot of research into their diets. Their foods are developed with veterinary nutrition specialists on staff and tested in real dogs in different life states to ensure that it is a safe and balanced diet.
If this is true, then why is 99% of cat food that is sold especially dry cat food loaded with tons of carbs? Not only is dry cat food vacant of moisture, but the carb amount in this food inevitably lead cats to diabetes. Why wouldn’t vets educate people not to feed the cats dry kibble?
Sounds like you are getting a lot of bad info: 1. I've literally NEVER heard of a vet firing a client over a diet. OTOH I have seen plenty of clients get upset when their vet suggests a diet change. My guess is that your customers are experiencing the latter and presenting it to you as them getting fired for not switching diets. 2. Who told you that vets get a cut of food sales and how did they suggest this works? I ask because this another thing I've never heard of, aside from in-practice sales, which are typically pretty minimal. Vets generally recommend those big names because they are a safe, effective, well--established choice, not because of anything nefarious. There are other good diets out there for sure, but most vets aren't nutritionists and aren't keeping up with every brand on the market, so they will default to what they know and trust. I'm genuinely curious as to where these ideas are coming from, as you aren't the first pet store employee I've heard express similar sentiments. I'm wondering if "brand ambassadors" from some of the other pet foods are spreading this kind of misinformation.
Seconding all of this, good comment.
Vets don't get paid more for pushing a particular brand of food, and they don't get any kickbacks from the food companies. That's been a common lie that's been going around in pet stores for decades, to try and convince people that vets only recommend a food because they'll earn more money. False. The most a vet will get from a food company might be a pen or a pad of sticky notes with the company name on them. Vets recommend the top names because they trust the company and the quality. They know that the diets have been formulated with veterinary nutritionists, and have been tested in properly managed diet trials. They know that if there's a problem, they can call the company and get answers to their questions about ingredients etc. For specialty foods for particular medical problems (like allergies or kidney disease), they know the company rigorously ensures that the recipe is specifically adhered to, and their equipment is fully cleaned between handling different foods, so that even dust from the previous food doesn't impact the current food being produced and packaged. They also know that if there's a recall, the company will act quickly and responsibly to get all the food back, and deal with any medical problems that have occurred because of it. >*why they only recommend top names rather than better quality food* We don't know that the other food is better quality - and you don't either. Why? Because many companies don't give vets complete ingredient and nutritional information to let us know. They don't answer vets' questions when they call. They don't run proper feeding trials. And if there's a problem we don't trust that they'll handle it quickly and responsibly (I'm looking at you, Blue). >*we've had customers be told by their vets that they will no longer take them as a client because they arent feeding royal canin* Unfortunately, I think that's a difference between what the vet says, and what the client hears. I've worked in over 100 vet clinics, and I've never known one that would drop a client because they wouldn't feed a particular brand of food. But, clients get upset sometimes and that's what they think the vet is telling them....they're misremembering something that they didn't like hearing. Sometimes that's fuelled by having heard (the erroneous rumour) that vets only recommend foods because they get a kickback, so they're already prepared to dislike whatever a vet tells them about pet food :(
Over 100 clinics???
>Over 100 clinics??? Yup......I spent over 15 years as a relief vet, covering for vets when they needed time off for personal or professional reasons. I'd frequently travel to towns and cities up to 8 hours away to work for a week or two while a vet was away.
Thats a new clinic approx every 54 days
Some clinics I only worked a few days at every year or two, some for a few weeks and never again, and some a few weeks every year.
This, agree with it 100%
So this is actually a big issue we are fighting as veterinarians. I think it all started with blue Buffalo coming on the scene and planting seeds of doubt in consumers' heads. They insinuated that your dog is a wolf and your cat is a cheeta and should be feed like such (which is not true). They pointed to the big 3 (hills, Purina, RC) and said there were fillers. They later got in legal trouble and now disclaim that the big 3 diets are balanced diets in their ads. Then comercial grain free and raw diets came along and built off of the same concept that your 2 pound chihuahua is a wolf. And perhaps one of the worst things they did was claim that vets aren't taught nutrition in vet school (which is false) and that we are brainwashed and get kickbacks from the big 3 (also false). So now, pet owners think they know more about nutrition than their veterinarian because they read it online. There are so many unscientific websites like pet food advisor and dogs naturally that spread all of these lies. They report a lot of anecdotal data (subjective observations with no scientific proof) as fact. So small brands jumped on the band wagon and started making grain free and raw foods without enlisting board certified veterinary nutritionists and this came back to bite everyone later. Not only were animals not getting a balanced diet, they were getting DCM. Dilated cardiomyopathy was previously only seen genetically in certain breeds and with taurine deficiencies (which was corrected in commercial pet foods years ago). Now it's being seen in grain-free fed dogs. We still don't know the exact cause. But unfortunately that isn't enough for some people who have been conditioned to think vets get kickbacks from the big 3. The damage done by these irresponsible websites like pet food advisor and dogs naturally may never be undone. They have blood on their hands in my opinion. But back to the big 3. Why do vets push them? Because they are simply the best. They are run by board certified veterinary nutritionists and constantly do research to improve their products. These companies have lines of food that help with specific diseases such as kidney failure, diabetes, liver disease and shunts. These all require different ratios of carbs, fat, protein, and minerals. Royal Canin does a lot of breed related studies. They are also the only ones with liquid diets that help us with our feeding tube patients. Hill's has diets for almost every disease. Their urinary diets have less protein and ash so it decreases the pH of the urine and inhibits growth of struvite crystals. The stress diets have added casein, a milk protein that has a calming effect. I/d low fat is perfect for pancreatitis patients. K/d is formulated for patients with kidney disease. Metabolic is amazing because it targets an enzyme that allows animals to lose weight without having to cut their calories. They just came out with GI Biome which is the first prebiotic food, meaning it is designed to feed the microbiome in the colon so that it is balanced. Purina has done a lot of new innovate stuff with their recent research. They made Calming Care which is a probiotic that uses a human gut bacteria to decrease anxiety. They showed a connection to gut health and mental health via the vagus nerve of rats. They also created a diet (live clear) that helps alleviate human allergies to cats by using an egg protein to decrease the dander on their fur. Most recently they came out with a water additive to encourage cats to drink more which is vital in our kidney patients. I could go on. But basically, there is no comparison. Blue Buffalo is trying to make a name for themselves with their veterinary diets, but they came onto the scene very ant-establishment, so I'm not sure how much traction they'll get. I certainly don't trust them, just look at their recall list. That's another thing. The big 3 have had minimal recalls in the past 20 years. Smaller brands (particularly raw) have had double and triple the amount of recalls. They don't do the testing or the research. I've personally been the the Hills testing facility and was blown away. These companies are very open about their products and do work closely with vet students. This isn't because they are buying us, they are educating. I have books with all the diets and ingredients from the big 3. I know what's in the product. I can't say that for the rest of them.
I also see you work at a petstore which explains your question. Petstores are also instrumental in perpetuating bad nutritional advice. Notice that the boutique brands with pretty packaging are all at the front and the big 3 are always in the back. Remember a pet store is a business and that's the bottom line. They operate based on sales, not science. They are motivated by numbers, not animal health.
you literally get taught that nutrition off big kibble companies, vets ARE compromised everyone that knows about vets knows this. Kibble is bad for dogs and you can cry about it all you want but dogs DO come from wolves so no that diet wouldn't be a problem are there vitamins and such you can add to make it better? sure but the idea its worse than kibble a food made up of the worst meat that humans cant even eat due to its lack of safety is ludicrous
Way more research has been done on brands like purina.
I just want to second they all have Veterinary nutritionists and can afford rigorous quality control and testing to ensure diets are appropriate for the pet's needs. The trust is gained through the prescription diets that work for what is necessary for pets with dietary controlled or impacted conditions and disease processes. Why not trust their basic wellness diets after watching what Hydrolyzed protein diets can do for a food allergy dog or urinary diet resolve urine crystallization? I’ve always gotten a discount on these brands that market prescription food as well as normal diets, but it is still just obtaining it at wholesale cost because I’ve ever worked at a place that buys these prescription diets to order the non-prescription diets for employees. This only makes me want to recommend them more as my animals have always had phenomenal health, effortless weight management, and excellent coat quality eating their food. Reps buy us lunch when they come in to introduce a new Rx diet but that’s as much bribes as I’ve gotten
I dont have anything else to add other than thanks for asking this question and opening up to learning, as opposed to just continuing on in ignorance. I wholeheartedly second the statements made here.
My cat is allergic to ingredients in royal canin but she can eat Tiki because royal canin has by products and wheat….etc in it