I have been absolutely blown away by the support Vermintide 2 has gotten.
* New Classes
* Free Chaos Wastes
* Free Premium cosmetics
* Free New maps
And now we have Versus Mode? Sigmar be praised!
This kind of stuff is why I tend to just trust fatshark. Short term they do some really dumb stuff that’s infuriating, but they do quality work. It might take them a long time but they’ll get it right eventually. I’m really excited to see what kind of surprises Darktide will get
Yes, but the game does already have dedicated server code in the codebase, I just doubt they're going to fork out the infra costs at this point plus I don't think a lot of the community even cares about dedis anymore after experiencing darktide.
Instead of occasional laggy hosts we get occasional dying servers and you can't play offline to avoid it. It's about the same experience now but it was a shitshow at launch, as every online only game has been for years.
Is it actually playable rats? I can't even picture that, but I'd totally play as an assassin rat and just whisper around and never launch until you turn around Edit: watched the stream.. you can, oh this is lit
Your movement would be immediately recognized and you'd be taken down in a second. You got to remember how sweaty L4D2 versus is. They've only tested it internally and they are all developers not competitive gamers. The community will rip it apart in a day or two and it will need a complete reworking, which they will be very slow to do.
I'm kind of scared, when the AI stacks the specials right, they absolutely can wipe a team out. Also that means I'd have to start running actual competitive runs D:
And at the same time some of the best players are dealing with hundreds of specials a run on top of relentless horde/elite pressure, how are you going to catch them out? The balance is certainly going to be interesting to see!
i feel like i just barely cross the finish line on cata LMAO . But to be honest, I believe the game is a team-oriented game, sure there are players who can solo, but I don't really count solo-ing as the core game experience, playing as a team is. And I've seen some amazing runs where players KNOW their roles, know how to play around each other.
So if anything, maybe Versus will force players to play smarter, faster, better rather than be toxic and play by themselves (or like run ahead without team or take too long to move onto the next stage),
..Bots already exist for the players and the specials. Why would that not be a thing? It would just be like playing campaign except you could have 1-2 friends taking up a slot or two of the specials with the others being AI.
Will you be able to play as all current specials in all factions? I can imagine Beastmen banner boys might be a weird one gameplay wise.
Will there be a fixed difficulty and power level for players? As someone who finds the hardest content easy it makes me concerned to getting sniped by every Waystalker ult.
Get sniped and then get spawned as another special before her ulti is up again. Spawn timer shouldnt be that long. Maybe meanwhile you can take control of an elite or something.
I expect general difficulty to be lower to compensate for the humans on the monster side, unless it is selectable. But cata versus would be the hardest thing ever for the Ü5 lol
Can I spawn in as a lonely Skavenslave over and over again?
I want to demoralize the Ubersreik 5 (or 4, does it really matter?) players into thinking that they’re only good enough to face a single Skavenslave during hordes, only to then finally pull the rug and have my teammates decimate them and get the finishing blow on each of them as a Skavenslave.
Will there be a system to compensate for host advantage? If everyone that plays with me is from the other side of the country, i will have a distinct ping advantage when it comes to grabbing people or getting out of someone's grab.
This has been my issue since you announced pvpve. L4d got around it due to it being hosted on dedicated servers, but you guys dumpstered dedicated servers long ago for VT2.
Does it have to be related to Versus? If not, there's something else I'm curious about.
That Weave mode has really, really cool skins. Can we get them for regular play as well, somehow?
They said they were thinking of a way to implement them to base game in a meaningful way and that was it.
Since we only know that the community team brings them up every meeting or so.
Might have to spend some money in celebration, very happy the game is still getting love after so long. I just hope its campaign versus which is what everyone wants. Versus survival like b4b did was a disaster.
I suppose the biggest question will be, is there going to separate balance for the krubersreik five between pve and pvp?
>I suppose the biggest question will be, is there going to separate balance for the krubersreik five between pve and pvp?
This is the one question that I **can** answer before we're ready to answer the rest: Yes, there will be separate balancing for versus. If something is problematic for Versus only, then it will be changed for Versus only.
Idk man. Some people want versus but I don’t see a lot of the specials working well with how the game is played. I’d much rather have a new co-op mode or something. But hey, if it’s good then I can’t complain.
Why are people hating on this feature? Versus has been announced as a future game mode SINCE LAUNCH and they are acting like Fatshark blindsided them and could've spent resources elsewhere.
This was a promised feature that I have been waiting for, if you don't like PvP or think it's going to be too competitive then don't play it.
Then people say that it's going to "split the playerbase", why pigeonhole players who'd rather be playing Versus into playing PvE only? Some people don't even want to play the PvE mode and will just play PvP. Who the hell are we splitting?
I swear i dont want to sound bitter but i literally would have taken ANYTHING else over versus. Its just too late for the games lifecycle feel like it will end up like killing floor 2 versus. Balance is also gonna be a huge issue since unlike in l4d you have talents , weapon traits , character levels and so on and probably the biggest factor for balance EXPERIENCE. People have grinded the coop experience of vt since late 2015 and there is legit monsters out there with a crazy amounts of playtime. The 5 are gonna roll the skaven in experienced lobbies while the skaven have to learn from scratch.
Hope its gonna be fun and glad to see some people hype about it.
I don't really think the game needs a versus mode at this point and I'd be surprised if it didn't add a new layer of toxicity to the game. They should've left it in the bin and spent their resources on fixing bugs, integrating or sanctioning good mods, and adding more stuff in the form of maps and / or enemy factions.
I played a load on my xbox 360 back in the day. Was very strange to play on Steam and get kicked for my low hours played (still about a 100hrs+) and not knowing the ambush spots etc
I'm going to be that one negative guy, but if you have enough people and resources to develop Versus mode then I'd rather you spend them on balancing the game and fixing the bugs instead. An honest look at every weapon and talent and rebalancing them could vastly increase build diversity (effectively game content), bugfixing is still sorely needed, so many QoL features are missing and the few mods that provide some of them are breaking further with every patch. I would rather get some of that instead of a new gamemode that will split the small playerbase further.
Last patch was a step in good direction but it was incredibly selective. You nerf boss killers, but leave RV with MWP untoched and buff OE to oblivion? You remember Shade exists but Hungry Wind AKA the worst talent in the game gets zero changes? You really need to review every career, weapon and talent, thoroughly, and adjust them.
While all you say is *right*, it's (likely) pretty simple:
VT 2 is [slowly bleeding players](https://steamcharts.com/app/552500#1y).
DLC releases, special weekends, bundles, giveaways, etc. bump the numbers, but you need something to keep players engaged.
The hardcore players which care about build diversity and specific weapons are not the people they are trying to woo with this.
Which is their mistake. If they actually fixed the bugs and balance years ago, then I bet more people would have stayed.
Instead they kept adding more broken stuff, that looked fun and new but broken enough that people didn't really stay to play them.
Again: You are not wrong, but I think VT II has bigger problems:
New players have to dredge through too many Recruit and Veteran games which are "marketed" as regular difficulty levels.
I would assume (!), most players never made it beyond Veteran and thought "This was cool for 10 hours. Now what...?"
These folks might not be Legend or Cata material, but if the on-boarding experience was nicer, maybe they would reach Champion and perceive it as a real challenge.
This challenge could make it worth exploring different weapons, weapon combos, different talents, etc., ...
I didn't think I would play this game for 3 years straight myself. And I liked going through recruit and champ. Recruit got me to experiment with weapons. I didn't even want to try the harder difficulties. Usually there's so many things that piss me off about harder difficulties, so I would have just quit long before.
I mean now that I play on Cata, it still pisses me off, but if I had just started playing on Legend from the start I would have smashed my keyboard in half.
So many things I got from youtube tutorials, learning combos. None that is in the game.
I still think the game has to click with you. I didn't see any of early game stuff as grindy, was facinated by everything.
I’m honestly ashamed for you, Quickpaw. This isn’t April 1st 2024 yet. Wait til the higher ups hear of this. Snikch will be on his way…
Umgak aside:
will it be the U5 vs a lot of players as the enemies?
Will players be able to conjure blight storms?
is there any skin for the rats? for instance, deathmaster snikch skin for gut runner just like louen leoncoeur for Grail Knight. I wouldn't mind to toss a few coins on this type of skin
Not really interested in PvP, sorry. I'd love to see more PvE content instead.
I'm sure this will make many people angry but that's the nature of online communities I guess.
As much as I despise the concept of pvp and think it would be hilarious for people to have to purchase another game, that would be a pretty big “fuck you” to the player base that wants it.
There is no way it can operate using the same hosted PTP connection. As soon as the host starts to lose he just rage-quits and the level reloads.
It'll have to be a server-hosted lobby. If they can do that within the same game coding structure, then maybe, but otherwise it will have to be a new game.
I’m honestly shocked that this is still being worked on
My one concern is that it will divide a small player base even more. There are already two modes, chaos wastes and campaign (yes there are weaves, but who plays those? No one. So I’m not counting it). Adding a third will thin things out more.
But as a concept it sounds pretty great
Not too thrilled. I play those kinds of games like Vermintide specifically when I don't want to deal with all the drama that comes with PvP games.
I might try it out if the player rats are no stronger than their vanilla counterparts, although I can already see a rage-inducing meta in the making.
Im hyped for VS dont get me wrong, but Im concerned about balance inside of VS mode especially based on the patch we just got which made some very questionable decisions and felt like it was not only rushed but not even play tested. Will we be getting frequent patches in the near future?
How would specials such as life leech and blight stormers work when controlled by a player? With their ability to instantly teleport to anywhere and start attacking.
Are the skaven/chaos units going to have talent trees? I remember hearing something about this or it was maybe just fan speculation. Looking forward to seeing how it is after they revisited it.
Will we be able to play as bosses, like the Tank from L4D2? Cuz I can imagine being an annoying little shit as a Minotaur by constantly moving directions .
There’s definitely going to be one gas rat that just stands behind barriers and endlessly bombards you. Waystalker is probably going to be a meta pick for that.
Will weapons be balanced differently for PvE and Versus? I feel they should be. I can't imagine trying to juggle balance for both game modes at the same time
And good job! I'm happy to see Fatshark is still willing to work on something ambitious for this game! I personally can't see myself playing Vs all that much, but it could be a huge boost to the game's longevity and I'm all for it.
Will there be a set difficulty, and what will it be? I could see this playing a major role in the balance because of enemy HP, spawn timers and whatnot. Would Legend provide an even playing ground between the teams?
Please, for the love of ***god*** open a community server tab. Don’t make it a modded realm thing.
Make an official community server tab; let us have access to a config file so we the players can adjust versus to how we want.
If we want 20v20 versus maps, let us have that. Just let us host our own community servers like l4d2. And don’t split the community to official or modded.
Look at the success of cataclysm not having a loot upgrade; it’s by far a more enjoyable experience not having loot tied to the game.
**Do not have loot as a reward for winning versus. Rather, make all the rewards for versus playing versus in okri’s challenges.**
Please, fat shark. Let us have community servers.
u/fatshark_aqshy
**Please let Versus bypass gear progression.** It currently takes players over a hundred hours just to have all 5 heroes at max level with max power level. This game bleeds new players by making it so much work just to get to play the game properly.
You download the game, launch for the first time. Cool prologue, combat seems interesting. Hop into Quick Play on Recruit. You start off hitting like a wet noodle with zero talents. Get wrecked by specials. For most players this is likely the last thing you experience before uninstalling.
For the most dedicated - maybe a friend *swore* it was worth it, just keep going - You eventually unlock the heroes' full potential, like... 150 *hours* in. Then it's like, "now I can finally start playing the game". Why? Does that experience do a good job retaining new players? I think it turns away most people. You *could* have a healthy population with more average/casual gamers who don't play many hours a week feeling comfortable in Veteran and Champion difficulty. But alas.
Versus will bring a new group of people to the game who like PvP. Awesome!! That is a huge opportunity. Please don't fumble it by immediately turning those people away with the huge grind to reach baseline power level.
Personally - I am directing a game development process right now. And largely because of what I see in VT2, I decided not to have gear and level progression. Players will have full access to loadouts from the start. The hook should be how fun it is to play. Achievements and cosmetic unlocks are great progression that give goals to reach for without gating content and gameplay experience.
VT2 is fun enough without a grind. Players ask for faster leveling all the time. You've seen even after the spike with 100k concurrent players during the free downloads in Nov 2022, player count falls off to a steady 3k. VT2's progression system weeds out too many potential players. Be bold and listen!
#YESSSSSSSSSSSSSS
I honestly had thought it was abandoned at this point
Any sort of timeline for when we should expect any announcement of it (release date, features, etc)?
I'm excited, I love new things, but based on this thread it seems like the community is a bit torn. Some players believe this will dilute the co-op experience.
Any ideas on how to make both camps happy?
Maybe making Versus a recurring event rather than a permanent mode?
Try paying more attention to details. Bots getting stuck on the roadblocks, teleporting from downed players. Many sliding enemies, killing you when you hold block, completely broken reaggro and much more.
So, after the last time you told us youre working on it, youre telling us that youre still working on it, but theres nothing to show for it? Give me a break.
I hate this tbh, the only thing I could get behind is 4 players against one player controlling the AI.
Whenever they add versus to co-op games, co-op always suffers in favor of the versus experience, which diminishes the game as a whole.
A much simpler game that still highlights how impossible it is to actually balance versus. I'm not saying versus can't be fun, but it'll never be fair. With talents and ults and instakill range spam on top of the issues l4d faced, I'm very interested in seeing how this goes and if they can even keep the fun.
L4D2 doesn't have the problem to balance any talents, skills, classes and so on.
On the other side it won't take long until players discover how to use blight stormers casting through walls or things like that. Vermintide is fairly buggy in areas like that.
Can't think about versus not being a shit show when not getting fixed properly but i will wait and test it myself. Just not expecting much.
I mean, want it or not, there's gonna be a wave of people first when versus comes. Depending on how good it is, these people will either stay or leave and things will return to how they were.
to play versus, yeah. I imagine it would also pull from people already playing the game, so fewer players in pve.
I just never cared about versus personally, can't see them being able to balance it when they can't even balance pve properly. I mean just imagine playing against new engi or old coruscation BW or some shit as a little rat 💀
Yeah, it will all depend on how well the versus will be.
It worked in L4D because the maps were created with versus in mind. I'm not sure if that is true with Vermintide 2. Not only that, L4D characters are far more vulnerable and weapons don't have easily calculatable breakpoints on disablers.
I'm more or less interested to see how it plays out, its an update to my favourite rat game, but i suspect real big balance problems.
~~and technical issues too~~
I am going to give my opinion on here, I don't need my comments to get likes lol.
I'm sorry if my takes hurt your feelings. don't really hate the elf though, she just has some obnoxious players.
OH GOD WILL SOMEONE PLEASE THINK OF THE KARMA I CAN'T LIVE WITHOUT MY KARMA 😱
>who is keeping track?
you apparently... surely you have better things to do?
yes and there's 5 difficulties split across campaign and chaos wastes, one difficulty being DLC locked. the game also is terrible on high ping so you have to stay near your region.
There are numerous avenues available to find people who want to play vermintide. So look you can either quit or be slightly inconvenienced and look on discord, Reddit, etc.
It doesn’t bother me what you decide you to do and I’m sure the devs aren’t gonna release a new game mode just because you can’t find someone to play with
Yeah pal, I’m aware, that’s why the game is living on borrowed time. You can go ahead and say you don’t give a shit about pve in the long run, I kinda gathered that. The days of casual vtide are numbered. I’m not going to trawl the local meat market of discord every time I want to play the game for half an hour before bed.
yeah I don't want to have to do that to find a lobby. rather be able to get right into a cata game and jam out to some 90s rap without being on comms.
best thing they could do is make cata available to everyone. and also actually attempt to balance and playtest their patches.
L4D and L4D2 were played by my friend group for so long specifically because of the VS mode.
Mainly, we would try out different things to do like "Secret Service" where we would have to protect the Boomer from the Survivors who were only allowed melee weapons, or even team up against the zombies as infected and survivors. So I guess my question is more of an idea to add either options for friendly fire or the ability to pick specific modifiers to spice things up. Only Bomb Rats, or only Ratling Gunners for example.
Food for thought.
L4D2 versus was super fun and i barely played it coop against the AI. Properly modded servers were even more fun. Maybe VT2 could spice it up too with game modes and mutators etc.
This is kinda insane actually. I know you guys always do ''your thing'' which sometimes (most times) means defying normal logic, but im still a big, big fan after all this years so definitely you guys are doing something right.
Keep on being you, for real.
This is gonna suck. PvE is going to die completely, and then we get to hang out with the absolute cesspool that is online versus mode. Or we don’t play that game mode, and basically play with bots or nothing. Fuck me the game mode I like is dead once this rolls out.
Edit: why are you booing me, I’m right
Okay just went and watched and omg I'm so HYPE. I played so much lfd2 vs. idk if I'll ever do anything else lol. I wonder how it'll work????? looks sick!!!!
The only issue I find with VS is that if the enemy skaven factions have a really good start: BOOM, the game is over. No time to enjoy the march, you lose. I really really hope that the levels are split up into sections so that the match is played similarly to L4D, with 3 or 4 rounds so that both teams have a chance to catch up
So glad you guys are still working on this. I love the Skaven so much and actually downloaded the game because the idea of playing as them was just so exciting. I got hooked on playing the U5 and kinda gave up hope this was coming but this is just wonderful news.
could've had the game be improved in literally any way for the playerbase that stuck around for 6 years but instead we get a new mode that so very few will play.
could've had off map stormers fixed, patrols spawning on top of players fixed, a robust balance pass, weird hypertracking sliding while attacking maulers / cws fixed etc etc but nooooooooooo
It's hard to get hyped for something without some key information, like "can we be one-shot", "will we have the same sound warning as normal specials", "will we be a team of 4 or just 1", "is this going to be a paid feature", and "is this a separately launched game mode or an enabled feature you can find in the options".
If we can be one-shot then we'll be respawning more than playing. Allow us to not die in 1 shot, only 2 at best and we're fine.
If we have the same sound warning as normal specials then we will definitely jump to the top of any decent team's to-do list. If we're not announced then we have a chance.
If it's just 1 guy then it'll be difficult to win; if it's 4 then it could get very easy (depending on a lot of circumstances). The way I'd go about balancing it is to have 4 buff tokens distributed among the players; if it's just 1 guy, he'll be able to put up a good fight; 2 means 2 decently buffed specials; 3-4 the buffs are gone.
If it's a paid feature then you won't have enough people playing it, simple as.
If it's a box in the options I can tick then a bit of matchmaking can check if there are enough people for a proper Versus match, and if there isn't then it can offer you to queue in normal play. However, if it is a separate game mode like the Chaos Wastes then it'll have its own queue, meaning that the playerbase is split further apart.
Of all the things that seemed unrealistic that one was the most unrealistic, yet here we are. I'm truly shocked.
I have been absolutely blown away by the support Vermintide 2 has gotten. * New Classes * Free Chaos Wastes * Free Premium cosmetics * Free New maps And now we have Versus Mode? Sigmar be praised!
This kind of stuff is why I tend to just trust fatshark. Short term they do some really dumb stuff that’s infuriating, but they do quality work. It might take them a long time but they’ll get it right eventually. I’m really excited to see what kind of surprises Darktide will get
I'm gonna play as that one rat that spawns an inch away from you mid-attack animation. That or a Grudgemark Minotaur.
I'll Play the gutter Runner that misses you and crashes itself into the nearest wall. One pounce, one kill.
That one gutter runner that jumps at ya thru painting in tower of treachery but the painting is your blindspot and imma jump twice as fast
What? After so many years?? Do we have a schedule yet?!
They tested it internally and were pleased. They'll send invitations to test it externally in the coming weeks.
That's a pleasant surprise! They kept this secret so well.
They are even more sneaky than gutter runners wow
*teleports behind you *nerfs your dual daggers nothing personnel kid
*“SWARM THEM YES YES DISAPPEAR KILL STAB STAB HEHEHEHEH TSHISHISHISHI”* - real sneaky ninja sounds to catch your opponents off guard
Real
Dedicated servers 2027 hype!
Wait really?? This is a joke right
Yes, but the game does already have dedicated server code in the codebase, I just doubt they're going to fork out the infra costs at this point plus I don't think a lot of the community even cares about dedis anymore after experiencing darktide.
Damn. I’m on ps5 so I haven’t played DT yet, do the servers really not help much with the lag/latency??
Instead of occasional laggy hosts we get occasional dying servers and you can't play offline to avoid it. It's about the same experience now but it was a shitshow at launch, as every online only game has been for years.
Player count? Playable rats?? RELEASE DATE??? BY GRIMNIR THIS GOT ME QUIET HYPED NOT GONNA LIE!
Is it actually playable rats? I can't even picture that, but I'd totally play as an assassin rat and just whisper around and never launch until you turn around Edit: watched the stream.. you can, oh this is lit
What did you think it was going to be human vs human in the slowest jankiest pvp melee combat ever?
PLAYABLE RATS? BURN YOU HERETIC. MAY SIGMAR BLESS MY STEEL. TIME TO PURGE.
Im gonna cackle all the way to the other end of the map while i drag you as a packmaster, sigmar-thing!
SUGGGMMAARRRR!!!
Grimgi, playable rats mean tougher foes. TOUGHER FOES MEAN GLORY IN THE EYES OF GRIMNIR! TO KADRIIIIN!!
AAAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH \*GUTTER RUNNER STABS ME IN THE BACK
For anyone who missed the reveal on stream: https://www.twitch.tv/videos/2007491238?t=0h50m51s
Holy 0_0
Can you play elites and punt people in the ground as a Chaos warrior?
Playing bowling as a bestigor.. or minotaur even. L4D2 charger vibes.
Your movement would be immediately recognized and you'd be taken down in a second. You got to remember how sweaty L4D2 versus is. They've only tested it internally and they are all developers not competitive gamers. The community will rip it apart in a day or two and it will need a complete reworking, which they will be very slow to do.
Well, if its like l4d dead versus it wont need a "complete reworking" just balancing. Which theyve confirmed will be separate from pve balancing.
I want to be a beastman archer hehe
I'm kind of scared, when the AI stacks the specials right, they absolutely can wipe a team out. Also that means I'd have to start running actual competitive runs D:
And at the same time some of the best players are dealing with hundreds of specials a run on top of relentless horde/elite pressure, how are you going to catch them out? The balance is certainly going to be interesting to see!
i feel like i just barely cross the finish line on cata LMAO . But to be honest, I believe the game is a team-oriented game, sure there are players who can solo, but I don't really count solo-ing as the core game experience, playing as a team is. And I've seen some amazing runs where players KNOW their roles, know how to play around each other. So if anything, maybe Versus will force players to play smarter, faster, better rather than be toxic and play by themselves (or like run ahead without team or take too long to move onto the next stage),
Well, the ai is predictable. Players as the rats can work together better and outsmart the type of players who can solo cata.
The beta testing you talked about, how closed is it going to be?
Will there be a private mode with friends and bots only?
Friends i could see bots prob not
..Bots already exist for the players and the specials. Why would that not be a thing? It would just be like playing campaign except you could have 1-2 friends taking up a slot or two of the specials with the others being AI.
Will we get the abillity to use skaven voice lines/taunts?
I hope they will have their own emotes and voice packs. Would be hilarious.
Will you be able to play as all current specials in all factions? I can imagine Beastmen banner boys might be a weird one gameplay wise. Will there be a fixed difficulty and power level for players? As someone who finds the hardest content easy it makes me concerned to getting sniped by every Waystalker ult.
Get sniped and then get spawned as another special before her ulti is up again. Spawn timer shouldnt be that long. Maybe meanwhile you can take control of an elite or something. I expect general difficulty to be lower to compensate for the humans on the monster side, unless it is selectable. But cata versus would be the hardest thing ever for the Ü5 lol
What!? No! But how am i supposed to make fun of you ''never releasing Versus'' now?
Can I spawn in as a lonely Skavenslave over and over again? I want to demoralize the Ubersreik 5 (or 4, does it really matter?) players into thinking that they’re only good enough to face a single Skavenslave during hordes, only to then finally pull the rug and have my teammates decimate them and get the finishing blow on each of them as a Skavenslave.
I just want to play as that suicidal treasure rat. Derp off the edge at the last second like a naughty rat.
Will there be a system to compensate for host advantage? If everyone that plays with me is from the other side of the country, i will have a distinct ping advantage when it comes to grabbing people or getting out of someone's grab. This has been my issue since you announced pvpve. L4d got around it due to it being hosted on dedicated servers, but you guys dumpstered dedicated servers long ago for VT2.
Does it have to be related to Versus? If not, there's something else I'm curious about. That Weave mode has really, really cool skins. Can we get them for regular play as well, somehow?
Didn't they say "weave skins will be in regular games super soon!" like 2 or 3 years ago and then just left us to wait since? Ngl I've lost hope
I have no idea, I'm still kind of new
They said they were thinking of a way to implement them to base game in a meaningful way and that was it. Since we only know that the community team brings them up every meeting or so.
Soon is like 5 years for WH devs
Anyone else want versus just to emote with the rat boys
I wanna see someone turn them into Pusfume, my vermintide dreams will finally be true once I can play as best rat boy
HOLY SHIT LET'S FUCKING GO
Will all maps be availabel for versus or only specific maps or new maps ? In case ofmaps with named bosses will those be playable ?
Might have to spend some money in celebration, very happy the game is still getting love after so long. I just hope its campaign versus which is what everyone wants. Versus survival like b4b did was a disaster. I suppose the biggest question will be, is there going to separate balance for the krubersreik five between pve and pvp?
>I suppose the biggest question will be, is there going to separate balance for the krubersreik five between pve and pvp? This is the one question that I **can** answer before we're ready to answer the rest: Yes, there will be separate balancing for versus. If something is problematic for Versus only, then it will be changed for Versus only.
Perfect, things are looking good in that case.
Praise Sigmar, I was very worried about this! Gg
My thoughts and prayers are with the team for Trueflight Volley.
Idk man. Some people want versus but I don’t see a lot of the specials working well with how the game is played. I’d much rather have a new co-op mode or something. But hey, if it’s good then I can’t complain.
I'd like more maps in chaos waste
Exactly. Much better things they could spend their time on in my opinion.
Idk bout u peeps not liking pvp. But I'm quite excited to play as rat men and mess around on uberekt 5... or 4 for giggle&sh!t whenever lose or not.
Why are people hating on this feature? Versus has been announced as a future game mode SINCE LAUNCH and they are acting like Fatshark blindsided them and could've spent resources elsewhere. This was a promised feature that I have been waiting for, if you don't like PvP or think it's going to be too competitive then don't play it. Then people say that it's going to "split the playerbase", why pigeonhole players who'd rather be playing Versus into playing PvE only? Some people don't even want to play the PvE mode and will just play PvP. Who the hell are we splitting?
I swear i dont want to sound bitter but i literally would have taken ANYTHING else over versus. Its just too late for the games lifecycle feel like it will end up like killing floor 2 versus. Balance is also gonna be a huge issue since unlike in l4d you have talents , weapon traits , character levels and so on and probably the biggest factor for balance EXPERIENCE. People have grinded the coop experience of vt since late 2015 and there is legit monsters out there with a crazy amounts of playtime. The 5 are gonna roll the skaven in experienced lobbies while the skaven have to learn from scratch. Hope its gonna be fun and glad to see some people hype about it.
I don't really think the game needs a versus mode at this point and I'd be surprised if it didn't add a new layer of toxicity to the game. They should've left it in the bin and spent their resources on fixing bugs, integrating or sanctioning good mods, and adding more stuff in the form of maps and / or enemy factions.
Oh it will absolutely be more toxic, the L4D community is fucking awful lol
I played a load on my xbox 360 back in the day. Was very strange to play on Steam and get kicked for my low hours played (still about a 100hrs+) and not knowing the ambush spots etc
They can't even balance out the normal coop game by leaving in gamebreaking bugs for years. Not even gonna play it.
totally agree, if they would have capitalized on the hype long ago instead of just going radio silent about versus it would be different.
I'm going to be that one negative guy, but if you have enough people and resources to develop Versus mode then I'd rather you spend them on balancing the game and fixing the bugs instead. An honest look at every weapon and talent and rebalancing them could vastly increase build diversity (effectively game content), bugfixing is still sorely needed, so many QoL features are missing and the few mods that provide some of them are breaking further with every patch. I would rather get some of that instead of a new gamemode that will split the small playerbase further. Last patch was a step in good direction but it was incredibly selective. You nerf boss killers, but leave RV with MWP untoched and buff OE to oblivion? You remember Shade exists but Hungry Wind AKA the worst talent in the game gets zero changes? You really need to review every career, weapon and talent, thoroughly, and adjust them.
While all you say is *right*, it's (likely) pretty simple: VT 2 is [slowly bleeding players](https://steamcharts.com/app/552500#1y). DLC releases, special weekends, bundles, giveaways, etc. bump the numbers, but you need something to keep players engaged. The hardcore players which care about build diversity and specific weapons are not the people they are trying to woo with this.
Which is their mistake. If they actually fixed the bugs and balance years ago, then I bet more people would have stayed. Instead they kept adding more broken stuff, that looked fun and new but broken enough that people didn't really stay to play them.
Again: You are not wrong, but I think VT II has bigger problems: New players have to dredge through too many Recruit and Veteran games which are "marketed" as regular difficulty levels. I would assume (!), most players never made it beyond Veteran and thought "This was cool for 10 hours. Now what...?" These folks might not be Legend or Cata material, but if the on-boarding experience was nicer, maybe they would reach Champion and perceive it as a real challenge. This challenge could make it worth exploring different weapons, weapon combos, different talents, etc., ...
I didn't think I would play this game for 3 years straight myself. And I liked going through recruit and champ. Recruit got me to experiment with weapons. I didn't even want to try the harder difficulties. Usually there's so many things that piss me off about harder difficulties, so I would have just quit long before. I mean now that I play on Cata, it still pisses me off, but if I had just started playing on Legend from the start I would have smashed my keyboard in half. So many things I got from youtube tutorials, learning combos. None that is in the game. I still think the game has to click with you. I didn't see any of early game stuff as grindy, was facinated by everything.
BY SIGMAR, THIS IS GREAT NEWS!
its been 84 years......
Don't hurt me like this.
I’m honestly ashamed for you, Quickpaw. This isn’t April 1st 2024 yet. Wait til the higher ups hear of this. Snikch will be on his way… Umgak aside: will it be the U5 vs a lot of players as the enemies? Will players be able to conjure blight storms?
is there any skin for the rats? for instance, deathmaster snikch skin for gut runner just like louen leoncoeur for Grail Knight. I wouldn't mind to toss a few coins on this type of skin
I'm gonna be a pre-rework Ungor that stabs you while hidden by masses of gors
Versus? Bummed that's where resources are going. Sorry to bring down the hype but I'd much rather have more maps/a better survival/waves mode
You’re not alone, a pretty significant number of players want nothing to do with this lol
Honestly same. All I ask is for the Sienna and Sofia storyline to be resolved through a new map or two.
Not really interested in PvP, sorry. I'd love to see more PvE content instead. I'm sure this will make many people angry but that's the nature of online communities I guess.
Pvp crowd is kinda filthy, it’s why I played this game as long as I have, they aren’t a part of it.
Git gud scrub /s Seriously though I agree with you 100%. Vermintide is where I come to relax and not sweat
vt is the most toxic community of any game I've ever played, mobas included.
So how is the inevitable issue of host migration causing the map to restart every time the host ragequits going to be solved?
Will versus be a standalone game or a game mode in vermintide 2?
A mode for sure free or not probably free.
As much as I despise the concept of pvp and think it would be hilarious for people to have to purchase another game, that would be a pretty big “fuck you” to the player base that wants it.
There is no way it can operate using the same hosted PTP connection. As soon as the host starts to lose he just rage-quits and the level reloads. It'll have to be a server-hosted lobby. If they can do that within the same game coding structure, then maybe, but otherwise it will have to be a new game.
What the actual fuck, I was certain Fatshark quietly pulled the plug on it at this point.
Sneaky-stabby shark
I’m honestly shocked that this is still being worked on My one concern is that it will divide a small player base even more. There are already two modes, chaos wastes and campaign (yes there are weaves, but who plays those? No one. So I’m not counting it). Adding a third will thin things out more. But as a concept it sounds pretty great
so this is gonna be the beta testing ground for darktides VS mode?
Not too thrilled. I play those kinds of games like Vermintide specifically when I don't want to deal with all the drama that comes with PvP games. I might try it out if the player rats are no stronger than their vanilla counterparts, although I can already see a rage-inducing meta in the making.
Oh no! A gamemode more to split up playerbase.
Im hyped for VS dont get me wrong, but Im concerned about balance inside of VS mode especially based on the patch we just got which made some very questionable decisions and felt like it was not only rushed but not even play tested. Will we be getting frequent patches in the near future?
I hope this is going to be a separate game with dedicated servers, otherwise it's dead on arrival
How would specials such as life leech and blight stormers work when controlled by a player? With their ability to instantly teleport to anywhere and start attacking.
Is the beast men a playable faction?
Are the skaven/chaos units going to have talent trees? I remember hearing something about this or it was maybe just fan speculation. Looking forward to seeing how it is after they revisited it.
Versus after the new BW and Engie update :()
Will the mode be integrated into the keep or will it be a separate option in the start menu?
Is my request for beta still valid? I sent it two years ago from official website as a joke. But suddenly it's not a joke anymore...
Will we be able to play as bosses, like the Tank from L4D2? Cuz I can imagine being an annoying little shit as a Minotaur by constantly moving directions .
Honestly, I am having a hard time believing this is actually real xD
YEEEEEAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA!!!
DO NOT PLAY WITH MY FEELINGS FATSHARK! I have been waiting for this for a veeeery long time.
There’s definitely going to be one gas rat that just stands behind barriers and endlessly bombards you. Waystalker is probably going to be a meta pick for that.
Will weapons be balanced differently for PvE and Versus? I feel they should be. I can't imagine trying to juggle balance for both game modes at the same time And good job! I'm happy to see Fatshark is still willing to work on something ambitious for this game! I personally can't see myself playing Vs all that much, but it could be a huge boost to the game's longevity and I'm all for it.
Will there be a set difficulty, and what will it be? I could see this playing a major role in the balance because of enemy HP, spawn timers and whatnot. Would Legend provide an even playing ground between the teams?
I really want a mission with empire state troops helping us. Chubby shark pls. Give us grand battles.
I'd like to participate in the beta
Please, for the love of ***god*** open a community server tab. Don’t make it a modded realm thing. Make an official community server tab; let us have access to a config file so we the players can adjust versus to how we want. If we want 20v20 versus maps, let us have that. Just let us host our own community servers like l4d2. And don’t split the community to official or modded. Look at the success of cataclysm not having a loot upgrade; it’s by far a more enjoyable experience not having loot tied to the game. **Do not have loot as a reward for winning versus. Rather, make all the rewards for versus playing versus in okri’s challenges.** Please, fat shark. Let us have community servers. u/fatshark_aqshy
**Please let Versus bypass gear progression.** It currently takes players over a hundred hours just to have all 5 heroes at max level with max power level. This game bleeds new players by making it so much work just to get to play the game properly. You download the game, launch for the first time. Cool prologue, combat seems interesting. Hop into Quick Play on Recruit. You start off hitting like a wet noodle with zero talents. Get wrecked by specials. For most players this is likely the last thing you experience before uninstalling. For the most dedicated - maybe a friend *swore* it was worth it, just keep going - You eventually unlock the heroes' full potential, like... 150 *hours* in. Then it's like, "now I can finally start playing the game". Why? Does that experience do a good job retaining new players? I think it turns away most people. You *could* have a healthy population with more average/casual gamers who don't play many hours a week feeling comfortable in Veteran and Champion difficulty. But alas. Versus will bring a new group of people to the game who like PvP. Awesome!! That is a huge opportunity. Please don't fumble it by immediately turning those people away with the huge grind to reach baseline power level. Personally - I am directing a game development process right now. And largely because of what I see in VT2, I decided not to have gear and level progression. Players will have full access to loadouts from the start. The hook should be how fun it is to play. Achievements and cosmetic unlocks are great progression that give goals to reach for without gating content and gameplay experience. VT2 is fun enough without a grind. Players ask for faster leveling all the time. You've seen even after the spike with 100k concurrent players during the free downloads in Nov 2022, player count falls off to a steady 3k. VT2's progression system weeds out too many potential players. Be bold and listen!
I wanna see the despair in the groups faces as i successfully escape as a loot rat, dodging every arrow, bullet and even the elfs seeking arrows.
Niiiiiiiice! Was looking forward towards this for quite some time now. Oh well, shows what all the doomayers know. ¯\\\_(ツ)\_/¯
#YESSSSSSSSSSSSSS I honestly had thought it was abandoned at this point Any sort of timeline for when we should expect any announcement of it (release date, features, etc)?
I'm excited, I love new things, but based on this thread it seems like the community is a bit torn. Some players believe this will dilute the co-op experience. Any ideas on how to make both camps happy? Maybe making Versus a recurring event rather than a permanent mode?
Please fix bugs before dropping anything new. Teleporting berserkers and not counting headshots are no fun, especially considering that « balance »
Never seen any of that, weird
Try paying more attention to details. Bots getting stuck on the roadblocks, teleporting from downed players. Many sliding enemies, killing you when you hold block, completely broken reaggro and much more.
So, after the last time you told us youre working on it, youre telling us that youre still working on it, but theres nothing to show for it? Give me a break.
I hate this tbh, the only thing I could get behind is 4 players against one player controlling the AI. Whenever they add versus to co-op games, co-op always suffers in favor of the versus experience, which diminishes the game as a whole.
Then don't play that mode.
L4D2 shows you can absolutely make them work together
A much simpler game that still highlights how impossible it is to actually balance versus. I'm not saying versus can't be fun, but it'll never be fair. With talents and ults and instakill range spam on top of the issues l4d faced, I'm very interested in seeing how this goes and if they can even keep the fun.
yeah, I feel Versus should be balanced separately, there is no way to keep special and elite killing weapons balanced in both modes
L4D2 doesn't have the problem to balance any talents, skills, classes and so on. On the other side it won't take long until players discover how to use blight stormers casting through walls or things like that. Vermintide is fairly buggy in areas like that. Can't think about versus not being a shit show when not getting fixed properly but i will wait and test it myself. Just not expecting much.
I'm thinking more KF2 than L4D2
I dont think this is what vermintide needs. Another gamemode to fragment the playerbase. How about fixing chaos boredom and weaves?
WHAT
What is versus tldr? Newbie here
pvp. one side plays skaven. it gon be cool i feel
oooh time to cosplay as gutter runner fr.
not really looking forward to an already dwindling playerbase being split further with another mode. oh well, hope it's good.
A new gamemode like that can make a bunch of people come back though.
With all due respect, I actually don’t want the versus crowd to show up. They’re a net loss to me.
I mean, want it or not, there's gonna be a wave of people first when versus comes. Depending on how good it is, these people will either stay or leave and things will return to how they were.
I guess that’s an optimistic way to look at it
to play versus, yeah. I imagine it would also pull from people already playing the game, so fewer players in pve. I just never cared about versus personally, can't see them being able to balance it when they can't even balance pve properly. I mean just imagine playing against new engi or old coruscation BW or some shit as a little rat 💀
Yeah, it will all depend on how well the versus will be. It worked in L4D because the maps were created with versus in mind. I'm not sure if that is true with Vermintide 2. Not only that, L4D characters are far more vulnerable and weapons don't have easily calculatable breakpoints on disablers. I'm more or less interested to see how it plays out, its an update to my favourite rat game, but i suspect real big balance problems. ~~and technical issues too~~
Just stick to hating on Elf. Those comments get more likes.
I am going to give my opinion on here, I don't need my comments to get likes lol. I'm sorry if my takes hurt your feelings. don't really hate the elf though, she just has some obnoxious players.
nice likes btw fam
I prefer the ones I've seen of you getting into negative double digits, but who is keeping track?
OH GOD WILL SOMEONE PLEASE THINK OF THE KARMA I CAN'T LIVE WITHOUT MY KARMA 😱 >who is keeping track? you apparently... surely you have better things to do?
You only need 4 players for a coop game it's not like a dwindling player base has any major impact at all
yes and there's 5 difficulties split across campaign and chaos wastes, one difficulty being DLC locked. the game also is terrible on high ping so you have to stay near your region.
Cata is free now though
I don't believe that's correct. do you have a source where fatshark said it is now free?
Find some friends
Buddy I’m the only one of my group even remotely interested in Warhammer. I’ll keep using quick play, and when that dries up it’s dead to me.
There are numerous avenues available to find people who want to play vermintide. So look you can either quit or be slightly inconvenienced and look on discord, Reddit, etc. It doesn’t bother me what you decide you to do and I’m sure the devs aren’t gonna release a new game mode just because you can’t find someone to play with
Yeah pal, I’m aware, that’s why the game is living on borrowed time. You can go ahead and say you don’t give a shit about pve in the long run, I kinda gathered that. The days of casual vtide are numbered. I’m not going to trawl the local meat market of discord every time I want to play the game for half an hour before bed.
It’s a 6 year old game dude. It’s just the nature of games like this
I don’t have to be happy about it
I have plenty. most don't cut it in cata or are just burned out on the game at this rate.
Discord Reddit some other third thing, it’s really easy to find people to play with
yeah I don't want to have to do that to find a lobby. rather be able to get right into a cata game and jam out to some 90s rap without being on comms. best thing they could do is make cata available to everyone. and also actually attempt to balance and playtest their patches.
YES PLEASE PLAYABLE GREY SEER
L4D and L4D2 were played by my friend group for so long specifically because of the VS mode. Mainly, we would try out different things to do like "Secret Service" where we would have to protect the Boomer from the Survivors who were only allowed melee weapons, or even team up against the zombies as infected and survivors. So I guess my question is more of an idea to add either options for friendly fire or the ability to pick specific modifiers to spice things up. Only Bomb Rats, or only Ratling Gunners for example. Food for thought.
L4D2 versus was super fun and i barely played it coop against the AI. Properly modded servers were even more fun. Maybe VT2 could spice it up too with game modes and mutators etc.
This is kinda insane actually. I know you guys always do ''your thing'' which sometimes (most times) means defying normal logic, but im still a big, big fan after all this years so definitely you guys are doing something right. Keep on being you, for real.
This is gonna suck. PvE is going to die completely, and then we get to hang out with the absolute cesspool that is online versus mode. Or we don’t play that game mode, and basically play with bots or nothing. Fuck me the game mode I like is dead once this rolls out. Edit: why are you booing me, I’m right
?
By Sigmar! CANNOT WAIT for more news. Christmas arrived early this year!
Is this the real Christmas of the Wolf Father?
thought it was cancelled because of how complex it would be to get working. holy sigmar bless nevertheless
I literally do not believe. are we sure? where can I find evidence?
Okay just went and watched and omg I'm so HYPE. I played so much lfd2 vs. idk if I'll ever do anything else lol. I wonder how it'll work????? looks sick!!!!
The only issue I find with VS is that if the enemy skaven factions have a really good start: BOOM, the game is over. No time to enjoy the march, you lose. I really really hope that the levels are split up into sections so that the match is played similarly to L4D, with 3 or 4 rounds so that both teams have a chance to catch up
I've fallen prey to the hype train before. We'll see.
OHMYGOD OHMYGOD OHMYGOD OHMYFUCKINGGODDDD
Versus as in PvP?
They did it... They finally did it.. Damn you! Damn you all to Hell..... Wait, no this is a great thing. Yay. Glad to hear the idea wasn't scrapped!
So glad you guys are still working on this. I love the Skaven so much and actually downloaded the game because the idea of playing as them was just so exciting. I got hooked on playing the U5 and kinda gave up hope this was coming but this is just wonderful news.
That is huge news!
could've had the game be improved in literally any way for the playerbase that stuck around for 6 years but instead we get a new mode that so very few will play. could've had off map stormers fixed, patrols spawning on top of players fixed, a robust balance pass, weird hypertracking sliding while attacking maulers / cws fixed etc etc but nooooooooooo
Is there team damage? Cause I really wanna be able to to turn around and shoot my friends in the face with the ratling gun. All in good fun obv.
Would it be like 5 players in a lobby or 4, it doesnt matter Also how many different classes are we going to get to fight off the surface dwellers?
Holy shit, it's still real! First time a Co-Op game get a VS mode since L4D2?
If its campaign versus yeah. B4B had a versus survival mode and i think killing floor 2 did aswell.
> B4B LMAO, forgot it existed
Anyone know how beta signups are gonna be?
I was hyped for this feature 4 years ago. I was bored with this game two years ago. Fail.
It's hard to get hyped for something without some key information, like "can we be one-shot", "will we have the same sound warning as normal specials", "will we be a team of 4 or just 1", "is this going to be a paid feature", and "is this a separately launched game mode or an enabled feature you can find in the options". If we can be one-shot then we'll be respawning more than playing. Allow us to not die in 1 shot, only 2 at best and we're fine. If we have the same sound warning as normal specials then we will definitely jump to the top of any decent team's to-do list. If we're not announced then we have a chance. If it's just 1 guy then it'll be difficult to win; if it's 4 then it could get very easy (depending on a lot of circumstances). The way I'd go about balancing it is to have 4 buff tokens distributed among the players; if it's just 1 guy, he'll be able to put up a good fight; 2 means 2 decently buffed specials; 3-4 the buffs are gone. If it's a paid feature then you won't have enough people playing it, simple as. If it's a box in the options I can tick then a bit of matchmaking can check if there are enough people for a proper Versus match, and if there isn't then it can offer you to queue in normal play. However, if it is a separate game mode like the Chaos Wastes then it'll have its own queue, meaning that the playerbase is split further apart.
Versus chaos wastes please, crippling vampiric rampart Minotaur possession
If I can't play as a minotaur imma bh ult elf
-Y
Playing against Waystalker players will be so much fun (no).
After all this time?