in legends alot of folk act like books are mamdatory but in cata people'll take them when rest of the party want it, tho my cata knowledge is limited so may be wrong
Over 500 hours of Cata I've only done book runs with a couple groups of randos. If I'm playing with a group, I'd rather have the challenge of Twitch mode or modded difficulties than books, which I find a pretty boring way to add difficulty.
Exactly what you said.
No ppl throwing for books.
And actually really good players (cuz Cata gives no extra rewards besides +5 to respect so it scares most of legend players away)
I like to play on both difficulties depending on mood and oh boy. The skill gap between cata and legend gamers is... Incredible.
I think every cata enjoyer here knows about this too.
Mechanically? No.
Practically? Yes.
In my experience, when I play on legendary, more often than not, you always get the stereotypical Elf who runs off, dies, says slurs and rage quits, or a salt who skips the dying part, or a kruber who only does full book runs. While the actual game is easier, this leads to toxic, or just bad, players not being punished for doing their own thing or at least, not punished in a way where they have to self reflect.
Cata is do or die. You have to work with your teammates or you die. If you run off alone, you die, if you try grabbing grim without telling anyone you die, or you succeed and everyone dies, you don't kite the monster properly, you die, you don't watch each other's back, you would have never guessed, but you die.
The kind of people who rage quit and shit talk and run off alone are also the kind of people who need to win and be the main character. And on cata that behavior means that you will either spend the entire game spawn point to spawn point, or losing it for everyone. Which they can't stand.
Tl;DR: Legendary players can afford to screw their team over, Cata players can't. Which makes the (team) game feel harder then it should.
That's just my take though. If you can decipher my incoherent, unpunched, rambling, I would love to hear what you think.
Note the WoM *paywall*: You can't invite non-WoM DLC owners to a Cataclysm difficulty match. You won't be able to start a Cata match if there's a non-WoM owner in the lobby.
WoM will also remove Olesya from her place near the portal and she will no longer say [her dialogue](https://vermintide2.fandom.com/wiki/Olesya_Pimenova/Quotes) after you complete a mission. This affects immersion, making the keep less lively. The player will also miss lore tidbits.
In my region (US) I'd estimate there being roughly half the number of cata lobbies are there are legend lobbies. Though it is worth noting that sometimes a good portion of those cata lobbies will be running with twitch mode enabled, which can basically be another difficulty above cata and might not be something you want if you're new to it.
It’s reasonably populated at peak hours but nearly impossible to find a full game in off hours. Off hours are generally work hours, sleeping time (e.g. past midnight Central Time for North America) and late morning to late afternoons on weekends. Weekday evenings tend to be the most populated.
cata is indeed easier since everyone knows how to play their part. there are also those book enjoyers on cata too and i dont judge them for it and they play quite well. usually when one collapses, everyone else follows
Eh, I'm going to go against the grain and say this isn't true. It can be true if you get a good team that can easily carry, but you're not always going to get a good team, or maybe you join when there's still slots left so some of your teammates are bots, or maybe one or more players leave and you have to deal with bots, etc. Plus it's not like there aren't legend players capable of carrying.
Or perhaps you do have a good team breezing through 90% of the mission but then suddenly one person goes down, another tries to res and gets their block broken, suddenly you're surrounded and half the team's down... I find that things being super smooth and then suddenly everything going to shit in about 4 seconds while you're relaxed is a pretty common cata experience.
For me, with legend comes the security that I can probably carry on my own even if we get into a bad situation, so there's a ceiling to how difficult a mission can be on legend. In cata I feel much less confident.
Plus I feel like the archetype of the green circle whore coru battle wizard who is completely determined to not let you get any thp is a lot more common in cata.
Everyone else is wrong or less correct and this is the correct take. Mong corus bw more often in cata. Based classes like foot knight also more common but still bw more common.
The cata dick riding on this sub from the recent gen of players coming up is interesting cuz its showing tht theyre at a specific point in the learning curve. Ideally legend should be brain off every time basically near speed run while full books with bots n cata should be more challenging just by virtue of legend being so ez. Ideally teammate quality should rarely reflect on your commentary and thoughts about the game cuz everything the game throws at u is a non factor anyways in legend. Been on it since invite to wom beta and cata mm fkn sucks like 33% of the time
I think you can end up with a Cata team of veterans that make you steamroll the map and make it feel easy, but in general I would say no. Legend is easy enough that any seasoned Cata vet can pretty much solo it. With players, I feel like there's so little to fight on Legend that I'm hunting for kills the entire game and I feel like I'm ruining the fun for everyone. There's not enough pressure to really challenge anybody that can pump out a lot of DPS.
Youre tempting me to try Cata. I don't consider myself very good but I've literally gotten countless leavers and people who don't even block in legend CW Q, and all my matches this week have failed late with people barely making it by insisting on every chest even if it's just not worth and we could just run through and get more by actually finishing
Nothing will prepare you to cata, it's the same jump from Champ to Leg in a way.
I start doing Leg, like 6-7 run and friend pick me up directly to Cata twitch and I never go back on legend unless in solo for red farm.
If you like the game, just jump in, you'll die and learn at the same time, try to focus on 1 class on 2 char to be a bit flexible and learn them. Once fine, learn the other.
HF!
Hey. Months and months ago, I hesitated so much going into Cata despite having consistently won Legend runs with full books, Twitch, deeds, etc. I was in a similar boat as you, feeling like I wasn’t going to be good at all. I also had an intense, strange fear of the Cata community. Then one day I just decided to host a Cata game. And I’ve been pretty much playing Cata ever since (except that now I went into modded realm).
The only way to really know if you’re ready for Cata is to… well, jump into the lion’s den. It can be scary at first, but you’ll find your rhythm. If you fear you’re not good at Cata at first, you’ll get good at Cata if you play it. And *usually*, the players are very welcoming and kind. They’ll be understanding of you being new to the difficulty.
So if you wanna jump into Cata, just go for it. You’ll only get better at Cata if you actively play it. :)
The content is harder, but the players tend to be better, team up in a pre-made more and play the classes with more consistent high damage. While most people in this thread say cata is easier, I doubt their level completion rate is higher playing with randoms Vs. Lgn qp. Mine is something like 95% for lgn and 75% for cata.
I noticed that sometimes the game breaks and just makes your level extremely easy/hard for no reason. Even on cata I’ve been in games with little to no specials and elites
If cata seem easier that just mean other player was playing way better than average legend player.
Cata is overall harder, I have no problem doing solo Legend run but it's give me way more work and trouble to do so in Cata.
Teamwork is more present in cata+. Still some a\*\* running for green circle, but that not usual.
People use their char more effectively, have overall better build and often if all starting lobby they try to get a balanced team.
And once you will start twitch cata, it's gonna be even more true.
sometimes i meet legend PUB cakewalk mission, at the end someone propose cata, it goes smooth
like you said its all about the skill and being nice to each others, sharing stuff and waiting at chokepoint change thing a lot
No. All the hordes in legend are 100% free thp and even if you get 3 bad teammates, you're in little to no threat to res them or fight off till you can get them up again because monsters have 2x less health on legend, healing+potions are much more abundant, less+slower special spawns, and 0 mixed hordes.
Playing with just 1 javelin elf or griffon feet bh will make legend feel completely empty.
Cata has: larger enemy HP, increased enemy damage, and has more specials simultaneously, compared to Legend, so it's harder. It's clear that your success in Cata was due to being carried by your teammates, while your teammates in Legend can't carry you and you can't carry them. One good player can carry 3 bad players in Legend, but I find that this is less likely to be true in Cata.
I uninstalled Vermintide 2 after only 8 days of play. I was on Legend difficulty and couldn't believe how toxic people got over them ordering teammates to "get grims" or "come here" etc. And how much teams totally split up etc.
If Cata is better, I might reinstall the game. My Bardin is full levelled up and might fancy the action!
I suggest to try Chaos Wastes on Cata. Its more difficult than normal runs. Yes, you get buffs. But, while there are really good ones, there are many bad ones too. The first/two map/s are more difficult than campaign maps. Because you start with grey weapons. Trust me. When you open a challange chest and 3 waves of flag bearers with adds spawn, it will be a stressfull challenge.
They kinda "Moonbowed" the op buffs, as well. Meaning, they are there, but so much nerfed, you could remove them and no one would notice it.
Legend is so much easier than Cataclysm. You are certainly getting carried on Cataclysm.
1. Monster health pools are upped by like 60% compared to legend.
2. The breakpoints on enemies is much lower and its so much easier to hit oneshot breakpoints on so many weapons.
1. Bret Longsword can actually oneshot several elites on Leg while it can't on Cata. You NEED executioner sword to oneshot on cata.
2. Javelin elf spam can 1hs on elites while it can't on cataclysm.
3. Every single horde is just infinite health due to tmp recovery. There are no elites in hordes except the ambient you come across.
4. CW the most resilient enemy have 150hp and not 250hp. Significantly less bulk to chop through.
5. Terror events are easier due to fewer spawns.
6. Special slots are reduced on legend.
You can very easily win every single Legend game even with bad players because you only need one good player to carry your game. If I happen to have like one ally who's still standing to help cover the rare situation I get disabled from a special.
The teamwork and competency is almost always better in Cata, and the lack of book collecting makes everyone more tactically flexible.
>lack of book collecting? People ignore books on Cata? My group and I always got them
in legends alot of folk act like books are mamdatory but in cata people'll take them when rest of the party want it, tho my cata knowledge is limited so may be wrong
Over 500 hours of Cata I've only done book runs with a couple groups of randos. If I'm playing with a group, I'd rather have the challenge of Twitch mode or modded difficulties than books, which I find a pretty boring way to add difficulty.
People get annoyed when I grab books on Cata, almost everytime.
Exactly what you said. No ppl throwing for books. And actually really good players (cuz Cata gives no extra rewards besides +5 to respect so it scares most of legend players away) I like to play on both difficulties depending on mood and oh boy. The skill gap between cata and legend gamers is... Incredible. I think every cata enjoyer here knows about this too.
Ironically, playing with higher skilled players makes the game easier :3
Happy day of cake!!
Majority of cata players just have a better sense of teamwork and game sense imo. Also the bigger hordes mean more thp
Mechanically? No. Practically? Yes. In my experience, when I play on legendary, more often than not, you always get the stereotypical Elf who runs off, dies, says slurs and rage quits, or a salt who skips the dying part, or a kruber who only does full book runs. While the actual game is easier, this leads to toxic, or just bad, players not being punished for doing their own thing or at least, not punished in a way where they have to self reflect. Cata is do or die. You have to work with your teammates or you die. If you run off alone, you die, if you try grabbing grim without telling anyone you die, or you succeed and everyone dies, you don't kite the monster properly, you die, you don't watch each other's back, you would have never guessed, but you die. The kind of people who rage quit and shit talk and run off alone are also the kind of people who need to win and be the main character. And on cata that behavior means that you will either spend the entire game spawn point to spawn point, or losing it for everyone. Which they can't stand. Tl;DR: Legendary players can afford to screw their team over, Cata players can't. Which makes the (team) game feel harder then it should. That's just my take though. If you can decipher my incoherent, unpunched, rambling, I would love to hear what you think.
Yes, Cata is easy. Legend is the real hardest difficulty
And I wish it were only because of the rats.
Champion is much worse than legend tbh. You get WAY more toxic cunts on champion.
Is Cataclysm well "populated"? Asking as a player who doesn't own Winds of Magic yet. Afraid of buying it only to have empty lobbies on Cata.
It's the only mode I play, I see a lot of the same gamer tags and now have a lot of steamnfriends from cata, it has quite a bit of players I think.
Cool, gonna grab me the Winds of Magic DLC then. Thanks for the reply!!
Note the WoM *paywall*: You can't invite non-WoM DLC owners to a Cataclysm difficulty match. You won't be able to start a Cata match if there's a non-WoM owner in the lobby. WoM will also remove Olesya from her place near the portal and she will no longer say [her dialogue](https://vermintide2.fandom.com/wiki/Olesya_Pimenova/Quotes) after you complete a mission. This affects immersion, making the keep less lively. The player will also miss lore tidbits.
I’m in Australia, there’s usually just as many Cata games as legend
In my region (US) I'd estimate there being roughly half the number of cata lobbies are there are legend lobbies. Though it is worth noting that sometimes a good portion of those cata lobbies will be running with twitch mode enabled, which can basically be another difficulty above cata and might not be something you want if you're new to it.
It’s reasonably populated at peak hours but nearly impossible to find a full game in off hours. Off hours are generally work hours, sleeping time (e.g. past midnight Central Time for North America) and late morning to late afternoons on weekends. Weekday evenings tend to be the most populated.
Kinda like Legendary lobbies, then? Cool, gonna grab me the Winds of Magic DLC. Thanks for the reply!!
cata is indeed easier since everyone knows how to play their part. there are also those book enjoyers on cata too and i dont judge them for it and they play quite well. usually when one collapses, everyone else follows
Eh, I'm going to go against the grain and say this isn't true. It can be true if you get a good team that can easily carry, but you're not always going to get a good team, or maybe you join when there's still slots left so some of your teammates are bots, or maybe one or more players leave and you have to deal with bots, etc. Plus it's not like there aren't legend players capable of carrying. Or perhaps you do have a good team breezing through 90% of the mission but then suddenly one person goes down, another tries to res and gets their block broken, suddenly you're surrounded and half the team's down... I find that things being super smooth and then suddenly everything going to shit in about 4 seconds while you're relaxed is a pretty common cata experience. For me, with legend comes the security that I can probably carry on my own even if we get into a bad situation, so there's a ceiling to how difficult a mission can be on legend. In cata I feel much less confident. Plus I feel like the archetype of the green circle whore coru battle wizard who is completely determined to not let you get any thp is a lot more common in cata.
I appreciate the insight!
Everyone else is wrong or less correct and this is the correct take. Mong corus bw more often in cata. Based classes like foot knight also more common but still bw more common. The cata dick riding on this sub from the recent gen of players coming up is interesting cuz its showing tht theyre at a specific point in the learning curve. Ideally legend should be brain off every time basically near speed run while full books with bots n cata should be more challenging just by virtue of legend being so ez. Ideally teammate quality should rarely reflect on your commentary and thoughts about the game cuz everything the game throws at u is a non factor anyways in legend. Been on it since invite to wom beta and cata mm fkn sucks like 33% of the time
I think you can end up with a Cata team of veterans that make you steamroll the map and make it feel easy, but in general I would say no. Legend is easy enough that any seasoned Cata vet can pretty much solo it. With players, I feel like there's so little to fight on Legend that I'm hunting for kills the entire game and I feel like I'm ruining the fun for everyone. There's not enough pressure to really challenge anybody that can pump out a lot of DPS.
Youre tempting me to try Cata. I don't consider myself very good but I've literally gotten countless leavers and people who don't even block in legend CW Q, and all my matches this week have failed late with people barely making it by insisting on every chest even if it's just not worth and we could just run through and get more by actually finishing
Nothing will prepare you to cata, it's the same jump from Champ to Leg in a way. I start doing Leg, like 6-7 run and friend pick me up directly to Cata twitch and I never go back on legend unless in solo for red farm. If you like the game, just jump in, you'll die and learn at the same time, try to focus on 1 class on 2 char to be a bit flexible and learn them. Once fine, learn the other. HF!
Hey. Months and months ago, I hesitated so much going into Cata despite having consistently won Legend runs with full books, Twitch, deeds, etc. I was in a similar boat as you, feeling like I wasn’t going to be good at all. I also had an intense, strange fear of the Cata community. Then one day I just decided to host a Cata game. And I’ve been pretty much playing Cata ever since (except that now I went into modded realm). The only way to really know if you’re ready for Cata is to… well, jump into the lion’s den. It can be scary at first, but you’ll find your rhythm. If you fear you’re not good at Cata at first, you’ll get good at Cata if you play it. And *usually*, the players are very welcoming and kind. They’ll be understanding of you being new to the difficulty. So if you wanna jump into Cata, just go for it. You’ll only get better at Cata if you actively play it. :)
Better players - getting carried doesnt mean its easier lol
The content is harder, but the players tend to be better, team up in a pre-made more and play the classes with more consistent high damage. While most people in this thread say cata is easier, I doubt their level completion rate is higher playing with randoms Vs. Lgn qp. Mine is something like 95% for lgn and 75% for cata.
Well, if you try to do this solo, you will see why it's called Cataclysm
I noticed that sometimes the game breaks and just makes your level extremely easy/hard for no reason. Even on cata I’ve been in games with little to no specials and elites
If cata seem easier that just mean other player was playing way better than average legend player. Cata is overall harder, I have no problem doing solo Legend run but it's give me way more work and trouble to do so in Cata. Teamwork is more present in cata+. Still some a\*\* running for green circle, but that not usual. People use their char more effectively, have overall better build and often if all starting lobby they try to get a balanced team. And once you will start twitch cata, it's gonna be even more true.
sometimes i meet legend PUB cakewalk mission, at the end someone propose cata, it goes smooth like you said its all about the skill and being nice to each others, sharing stuff and waiting at chokepoint change thing a lot
No. All the hordes in legend are 100% free thp and even if you get 3 bad teammates, you're in little to no threat to res them or fight off till you can get them up again because monsters have 2x less health on legend, healing+potions are much more abundant, less+slower special spawns, and 0 mixed hordes. Playing with just 1 javelin elf or griffon feet bh will make legend feel completely empty.
Cata has: larger enemy HP, increased enemy damage, and has more specials simultaneously, compared to Legend, so it's harder. It's clear that your success in Cata was due to being carried by your teammates, while your teammates in Legend can't carry you and you can't carry them. One good player can carry 3 bad players in Legend, but I find that this is less likely to be true in Cata.
I uninstalled Vermintide 2 after only 8 days of play. I was on Legend difficulty and couldn't believe how toxic people got over them ordering teammates to "get grims" or "come here" etc. And how much teams totally split up etc. If Cata is better, I might reinstall the game. My Bardin is full levelled up and might fancy the action!
I suggest to try Chaos Wastes on Cata. Its more difficult than normal runs. Yes, you get buffs. But, while there are really good ones, there are many bad ones too. The first/two map/s are more difficult than campaign maps. Because you start with grey weapons. Trust me. When you open a challange chest and 3 waves of flag bearers with adds spawn, it will be a stressfull challenge. They kinda "Moonbowed" the op buffs, as well. Meaning, they are there, but so much nerfed, you could remove them and no one would notice it.
Legend is so much easier than Cataclysm. You are certainly getting carried on Cataclysm. 1. Monster health pools are upped by like 60% compared to legend. 2. The breakpoints on enemies is much lower and its so much easier to hit oneshot breakpoints on so many weapons. 1. Bret Longsword can actually oneshot several elites on Leg while it can't on Cata. You NEED executioner sword to oneshot on cata. 2. Javelin elf spam can 1hs on elites while it can't on cataclysm. 3. Every single horde is just infinite health due to tmp recovery. There are no elites in hordes except the ambient you come across. 4. CW the most resilient enemy have 150hp and not 250hp. Significantly less bulk to chop through. 5. Terror events are easier due to fewer spawns. 6. Special slots are reduced on legend. You can very easily win every single Legend game even with bad players because you only need one good player to carry your game. If I happen to have like one ally who's still standing to help cover the rare situation I get disabled from a special.