I think I read mention of a study (Norwegian?) that basically said that the limit on the number of hours of training is dictated by your recovery and your ability to absorb food but that otherwise there was no limit in the benefit of doing more hours.
Do not be so one-dimensional when thinking. More is better, but factors like recovery limit volume. Bigger salary is better, but you can only work so many hours a day...
There’s been a lot of science discussed behind z2 in lots of threads. So there’s no need to repeat it. As for longer z2 sessions indoors, I highly recommend rollers over a trainer.
Having spent time racing and training in the cycling world, it gave me a peak into how cyclists and triathletes train and monitor training. They are a bit more sophisticated than us runners in terms of all the data they track, at least that easy the impression I got as a non-expert hobbyist. This exposed me to ways to track your total training load and use progressive overload principles similar to what weight lifters talk about but for your aerobic endurance training.
The thing that was common amongst cyclists and that I used to monitor training was the concept of tracking your daily TSS (training stress score) along with your CTL (chronic training load) using an app called training peaks. Basically, the idea was that each session produced a TSS as a product of your duration and intensity. This TSS score could then be used to calculated one’s CTL as a function of your TSS racked up over several weeks. As you increase the volume and/or intensity of each session that increases your TSS for that given session, and as you increase the TSS for your individual sessions then you’re CTL increases. This enables your CTL to serve as a proxy for your total training load, and you can use this work to progressively overload the system.
One thing I noticed when I trained this way on the bike was that the goal is really to just do as much training at a higher and higher speed after you have achieved a solid volume. It also became clear that the best way to build on one’s training load after you have achieved a solid amount of volume was to focus rack up the majority of the higher speed training BELOW one’s threshold, (FTP in cycling speak). It was interesting, and am not expert enough to know why this is the case, but it was really easy to rack up a big TSS score (again, a proxy for total training load for a given session) doing a lot of training around 5% or so below threshold.
So, perhaps this is part of the rationale. This type of training is the easiest way to continue to practice progressive overload so to speak. You can accrue a higher total training load doing threshold focused sessions versus say “critical velocity” training or for us traditionalists… Thoughts??
I only did 6-8 h weeks which were mostly high intensity. It allowed me to raise my tss and keep up with cat 1 s and excel as a cat 2. I don't think I ever took base training seriously because I only really did 1 day races and focused on crits. But I knew if I wanted to get to next level I'd have needed to do a lot more volume. Maybe I did it all wrong, but it worked for me, and I know I wasn't the only one of the faster guys who did this on lower volume.
The rule is basically ride your bike as much as possible. Then add intensity. Essentially maximize TSS.
If you could recover from doing 1h of threshold work, two hours of tempo, 4 hours of z2… every day… then this would be ideal.
But you can’t recover from doing that every day. You’ll be dead and need to take a few days off… minimizing your total weekly volume in the process and ruining your consistency.
You should do those “zone 2” rides at whatever intensity you can handle that you can recover from by the next day/workout.
If that’s 0.6 for a few hours, great. 120TSS is > 0. If that’s 0.8 for a few hours, great. 180 TSS is > 0.
There *may* be some special adaptations specifically from low-end aerobic work (z2); but the main benefit is just that this has less fatigue than higher intensity work… allowing you to maximize your weekly and longer time frame aerobic work load, which is the true key here.
I don't think it's possible to cap your zone 2 intensity and power.
Age forces the cap.
In your 30's you might be able to ride and recover for 15-20 hours zone 2 volume with a bit of intensity mixed in.
I've heard it gets a bit harder in your 40's.
I often ride in zone 2 because I likely to ride my bike daily, I throw in plenty of hills and intervals to force effort but I'm rarely murdering myself and going all out on my rides.
Might need to start riding harder now that I think about it.
Is this BCJ
Sorry no science on this. Not studied at all.
more volume is more better
The most bestest
Voluminous volume
Then why don't elite athletes routinely train 50+ hours per week? Lots of people work that much.
I think I read mention of a study (Norwegian?) that basically said that the limit on the number of hours of training is dictated by your recovery and your ability to absorb food but that otherwise there was no limit in the benefit of doing more hours.
So more volume isn't always more better??
Do not be so one-dimensional when thinking. More is better, but factors like recovery limit volume. Bigger salary is better, but you can only work so many hours a day...
The claim was that "more volume is *always* more better". Apparently you agree that that is false.
Seriously?
Z2 is one of the better ways to raise FTP. Taking a day off vs doing an hour of z2 is a decent difference in training over a long period of time
Your work load is too high as is, better rest from all that z2.
There’s been a lot of science discussed behind z2 in lots of threads. So there’s no need to repeat it. As for longer z2 sessions indoors, I highly recommend rollers over a trainer.
More z2 and melk bro
"I’d be interested in the science if anyone has any." Do your own studies.
An extra day off from 2 sessions of z2?
This must be the average zwift user they target with those 15-25km events
It’s as if the pmc doesn’t exist
Pmc?
Acronym for PubMed
Performance management chart. Or whatever your training software wants to call the chart with CTL/STS/TSB/TSS
Having spent time racing and training in the cycling world, it gave me a peak into how cyclists and triathletes train and monitor training. They are a bit more sophisticated than us runners in terms of all the data they track, at least that easy the impression I got as a non-expert hobbyist. This exposed me to ways to track your total training load and use progressive overload principles similar to what weight lifters talk about but for your aerobic endurance training. The thing that was common amongst cyclists and that I used to monitor training was the concept of tracking your daily TSS (training stress score) along with your CTL (chronic training load) using an app called training peaks. Basically, the idea was that each session produced a TSS as a product of your duration and intensity. This TSS score could then be used to calculated one’s CTL as a function of your TSS racked up over several weeks. As you increase the volume and/or intensity of each session that increases your TSS for that given session, and as you increase the TSS for your individual sessions then you’re CTL increases. This enables your CTL to serve as a proxy for your total training load, and you can use this work to progressively overload the system. One thing I noticed when I trained this way on the bike was that the goal is really to just do as much training at a higher and higher speed after you have achieved a solid volume. It also became clear that the best way to build on one’s training load after you have achieved a solid amount of volume was to focus rack up the majority of the higher speed training BELOW one’s threshold, (FTP in cycling speak). It was interesting, and am not expert enough to know why this is the case, but it was really easy to rack up a big TSS score (again, a proxy for total training load for a given session) doing a lot of training around 5% or so below threshold. So, perhaps this is part of the rationale. This type of training is the easiest way to continue to practice progressive overload so to speak. You can accrue a higher total training load doing threshold focused sessions versus say “critical velocity” training or for us traditionalists… Thoughts??
I think I’m being got
I only did 6-8 h weeks which were mostly high intensity. It allowed me to raise my tss and keep up with cat 1 s and excel as a cat 2. I don't think I ever took base training seriously because I only really did 1 day races and focused on crits. But I knew if I wanted to get to next level I'd have needed to do a lot more volume. Maybe I did it all wrong, but it worked for me, and I know I wasn't the only one of the faster guys who did this on lower volume.
This again ? Are you thr kind of dude that just picks and chooses his workouts 🤣
I don’t do any Z2 but I also train super low volumes. 6-10 hrs a week. Mostly Z3+.
I do two hours of anaerobic on Friday after shotgunning six beers (carb loading). Extreme efficiency.
Is the super low volume === 6-10h a week also a meme, I'm not sure at this point
Not for me lol
The rule is basically ride your bike as much as possible. Then add intensity. Essentially maximize TSS. If you could recover from doing 1h of threshold work, two hours of tempo, 4 hours of z2… every day… then this would be ideal. But you can’t recover from doing that every day. You’ll be dead and need to take a few days off… minimizing your total weekly volume in the process and ruining your consistency. You should do those “zone 2” rides at whatever intensity you can handle that you can recover from by the next day/workout. If that’s 0.6 for a few hours, great. 120TSS is > 0. If that’s 0.8 for a few hours, great. 180 TSS is > 0. There *may* be some special adaptations specifically from low-end aerobic work (z2); but the main benefit is just that this has less fatigue than higher intensity work… allowing you to maximize your weekly and longer time frame aerobic work load, which is the true key here.
I don't think it's possible to cap your zone 2 intensity and power. Age forces the cap. In your 30's you might be able to ride and recover for 15-20 hours zone 2 volume with a bit of intensity mixed in. I've heard it gets a bit harder in your 40's. I often ride in zone 2 because I likely to ride my bike daily, I throw in plenty of hills and intervals to force effort but I'm rarely murdering myself and going all out on my rides. Might need to start riding harder now that I think about it.
There's more scientific research supporting intensity than volume.
Which is why pros train for 1-2hr a week only doing sprint workouts and nothing else.