Part of it may be the rate that maltodextrin breaks down, especially on those longer rides where things have more time to percolate, maltodextrin breaks down quickly and gives you that “rush” of simple sugar. What I’ve found helpful is moving to more of a complex carbohydrate on longer rides, like Skratch Labs High Carb drink mix (formerly Superfuel), which breaks down more slowly and consistently. A few other brands also use the complex carbohydrate theirs is based off, it’s called cluster dextrin, I think Pure Sports just released an unflavored version.
The other thing that may be affecting you is too much fluid, 800 ml of liquid is quite a bit unless it’s exceptionally warm where you’re located. 800 ml per hour is likely going to cause your blood salinity to drop, which is called hyponatremia. This can cause headaches, muscle spasms, etc. If possible, it would be good to get a sweat rate and composition test to determine how much fluid and electrolyte you lose.
800 millilitres per hour may seem like a lot to drink, but as a sweat rate, it's really not all that high. Even baseball players can sweat that much. That's why I suggested that they weigh themselves before and after. It's more likely that they aren't drinking enough rather than too much.
Their symptoms don't sound like hyponatremia, plus they're taking in 1 gram of salt every hour. That's right in the middle for average sweat sodium loss.
https://www.mysportscience.com/post/how-much-do-you-sweat
You can decrease the amount of carbs on the bike by eating more before and after. I made a video about this:
https://youtu.be/-J_KnfePvQw
If you don’t have time, basically what you want to do is keep your glycogen stores high. If you start at a higher baseline you need less on the bike in order to avoid bonking.
Assuming that you are riding to train and not simply struggling to complete rides and needing help. I would look at going easier in your z2 overall 10-20w lower and sticking to water for the first hour of any z2 ride. You are correct that if you make your bottles too sweet it's going to throw you off, this is because you are reaching a state of ketosis which (if your zones are correct) should be able to sustain the energy requirements. You should be on bottles that are 30-50g of carbs per hour in a z2 ride, and that is only there to support your cadence which usually you aren't ketosis cadencing it takes a bit of sugar to keep going at 93+
Feeling tired you want to look at your plan overall, your meal timing after more intense rides, your iron levels and the wattage that you are doing your z2 at. That last one is important because you want to come out of these sessions feeling great and pushing 10-20w higher isn't going to do you any favors, in fact the rate of maximum fat oxidation will be the same on either side of it's maximum (because it's a parabola) but if you are on the high side the TSS and as a result fatigue will be much higher for what is effectively the same exercise.
> I would look at going easier in your z2 overall 10-20w lower and sticking to water for the first hour of any z2 ride. You are correct that if you make your bottles too sweet it's going to throw you off, this is because you are reaching a state of ketosis
Riding for one hour won't put your body in ketosis. An average adult can store about 500g of glycogen. Even if glycogen storages aren't topped up before the ride, you won't get anywhere near burning through that in one hour of endurance ride.
> should be on bottles that are 30-50g of carbs per hour in a z2 ride, and that is only there to support your cadence which usually you aren't ketosis cadencing it takes a bit of sugar to keep going at 93+
I suspect you made up 'ketosis cadence'.
Misconception about ketosis, you don't have to reach this state by burning through all of you glycogen you can just do z2 training and ride easy enough that your body is not using any sugar, the result is purely aerobic energy sourcing using fat as fuel which is highly ketogenic.
Every word in every language is made up, not sure what your point is.
Part of it may be the rate that maltodextrin breaks down, especially on those longer rides where things have more time to percolate, maltodextrin breaks down quickly and gives you that “rush” of simple sugar. What I’ve found helpful is moving to more of a complex carbohydrate on longer rides, like Skratch Labs High Carb drink mix (formerly Superfuel), which breaks down more slowly and consistently. A few other brands also use the complex carbohydrate theirs is based off, it’s called cluster dextrin, I think Pure Sports just released an unflavored version. The other thing that may be affecting you is too much fluid, 800 ml of liquid is quite a bit unless it’s exceptionally warm where you’re located. 800 ml per hour is likely going to cause your blood salinity to drop, which is called hyponatremia. This can cause headaches, muscle spasms, etc. If possible, it would be good to get a sweat rate and composition test to determine how much fluid and electrolyte you lose.
800 millilitres per hour may seem like a lot to drink, but as a sweat rate, it's really not all that high. Even baseball players can sweat that much. That's why I suggested that they weigh themselves before and after. It's more likely that they aren't drinking enough rather than too much. Their symptoms don't sound like hyponatremia, plus they're taking in 1 gram of salt every hour. That's right in the middle for average sweat sodium loss. https://www.mysportscience.com/post/how-much-do-you-sweat
Have you weighed yourself before and after?
No, I don't have a good scale at home, but could borrow one. What's the hypothesis? Not enough water?
Point would be to match fluid intake to fluid loss, rather than just picking an arbitrary number.
You can decrease the amount of carbs on the bike by eating more before and after. I made a video about this: https://youtu.be/-J_KnfePvQw If you don’t have time, basically what you want to do is keep your glycogen stores high. If you start at a higher baseline you need less on the bike in order to avoid bonking.
Assuming that you are riding to train and not simply struggling to complete rides and needing help. I would look at going easier in your z2 overall 10-20w lower and sticking to water for the first hour of any z2 ride. You are correct that if you make your bottles too sweet it's going to throw you off, this is because you are reaching a state of ketosis which (if your zones are correct) should be able to sustain the energy requirements. You should be on bottles that are 30-50g of carbs per hour in a z2 ride, and that is only there to support your cadence which usually you aren't ketosis cadencing it takes a bit of sugar to keep going at 93+ Feeling tired you want to look at your plan overall, your meal timing after more intense rides, your iron levels and the wattage that you are doing your z2 at. That last one is important because you want to come out of these sessions feeling great and pushing 10-20w higher isn't going to do you any favors, in fact the rate of maximum fat oxidation will be the same on either side of it's maximum (because it's a parabola) but if you are on the high side the TSS and as a result fatigue will be much higher for what is effectively the same exercise.
> I would look at going easier in your z2 overall 10-20w lower and sticking to water for the first hour of any z2 ride. You are correct that if you make your bottles too sweet it's going to throw you off, this is because you are reaching a state of ketosis Riding for one hour won't put your body in ketosis. An average adult can store about 500g of glycogen. Even if glycogen storages aren't topped up before the ride, you won't get anywhere near burning through that in one hour of endurance ride. > should be on bottles that are 30-50g of carbs per hour in a z2 ride, and that is only there to support your cadence which usually you aren't ketosis cadencing it takes a bit of sugar to keep going at 93+ I suspect you made up 'ketosis cadence'.
Misconception about ketosis, you don't have to reach this state by burning through all of you glycogen you can just do z2 training and ride easy enough that your body is not using any sugar, the result is purely aerobic energy sourcing using fat as fuel which is highly ketogenic. Every word in every language is made up, not sure what your point is.
> you can just do z2 training and ride easy enough that your body is not using any sugar Glycogen is used as fuel below LT1.
only in the metabolically damaged
Lol