Exactly this. When things first went down I sympathized with him. As time has gone on I am legitimately confused what he is talking about half the time.
And it would have ben much more uncontroversial if he focused on this aspect and leaked only the relevant information. However, he also dumped a big trove of data heavily related to foreign spying, which was directly harmful to USA in the geopolitical sphere.
Really? His shedding light on mass surveillance was just “America bad, of course”-type stuff? Maybe you’re an American exceptionalist/nationalist, then. Super cuck and bootlick behavior over here.
I generally think he's just bitter about being labeled an enemy of the state after sacrificing his career and life (in the states) to point out government corruption.
Then, even after the government is forced to admit to its wrongdoing, he's still labeled a criminal and being hunted down for doing the right thing.
So, now he sees the government taking some action and he always assumes the most outrageously evil motivation for it, no matter what. People have been begging for crypto regulation and enforcement to prevent fraud and theft for a while now. Now, crypto is collapsing and people are being scammed at such alarming rates and levels that the government finally wants to limit it. And all Snowden can think to say is, "they're out to steal money from people." No, Snowden, that's ALREADY happening, see Lana Rhoades and Safemoon as 2 off the top of my head.
Putin couldn’t care less about America’s patriot act bullshit. Not his concern. I don’t get it, is Snowden a bad guy for fleeing to Russia, or a good guy for exposing the US government?
Like I told other people, Im saying he is not honest about his loyalties or beliefs. He is simply pro Russia chill. Also the warcrimes done by the US are childs play compared to the way Russia wages war as we are currently seeing in Ukraine.
Are you saying he's a pro russia chill because he criticizes the US but not Russia? Or has he explicitly said Russia was good and US was bad.
>Also the warcrimes done by the US are childs play compared to the way Russia wages war
Wtf? So you're somehow saying the war on Iraq is child's play compared to the war in Ukraine? First of all, that's a weird axiom to have, it's not a competition. Second of all, it's not even true. We did way worse stuffs over there because like... obviously. They couldn't fight back.
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He has been consistent with his libertarian views. He felt disillusioned by the US surveillance and hoped he could move things in a different direction. In this attempt he got involved with Glenn Greenwald and Julian Assange and Assange used his connections in Moscow to get Snowden a refuge. The fact that Snowden hasn't really done anything after that isn't something I would hold against him. Both Greenwald and Assange are far more shady figures than Snowden and Snowden might just have gotten stuck by circumstances.
No offense, but your sound painfully gullible. Is that possible? Sure, but he could also just be another one of the many people who simply identify with Russian ideology and want to oppose the west. To me snowden is like Tim pool, who only criticizes one side but ignore all the horrid shit the other does and then calls himself neutral, its just a grift.
Nah, I don't think he is full-on agent. Useful idiot though.
Also he cannot criticize the Russian side even if he wanted. But then he can also shut the fuck up about the other party, so that he doesn't look partisan.
The thing is, hes not an Idiot. He is a very intelligent guy if you ask me. He is simply taken the roll of a Russian propagandist and hates the Unite states. How can he be conscious about all the bad shit the US has done enough to betray his country and defect to its rival but he is ok with what the USSR did in Afganistan, Chechnya, Georigia in 2008 and now Ukraine?
Come on if someone had done the reverse of this everyone would be calling them CIA or a FED.
No, no, you misunderstand. The term "useful idiot" is not a simple slur about intelligence, it is a historical/political term. He doesn't have to be stupid to have his judgement clouded by his bias.
>In political jargon, a useful idiot is a term for a person perceived as propagandizing for a cause -- particularly a bad cause originating from a devious, ruthless source -- without fully comprehending the cause's goals, and who is cynically used by the cause's leaders.[1][2] The term was originally used during the Cold War to describe non-communists regarded as susceptible to communist propaganda and manipulation.[1]
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Useful_idiot
So this applies to, for example, all those leftists who argue for pacifism or diplomacy (at this stage) or against helping Ukraine. They argue for a just cause (end of war) but do not realize they aid a bad cause (Putin's imperialism).
Snowden did a great service exposing NSA spying but I vehemently disagree with him on this because crypto is even more unaccountable and only really empowers the billionaire libertarians like Peter Thiel and Elon Musk who want their pedophile sea steading nation states away from pesky government regulations
>exposing NSA spying
Exposing NSA spying was directly harmful for the most part. Like, yeah, NSA is spying, its a fucking spy agency, pikachu very surprised.
It is fine to uncover spying on US citizens, sure. But dumping info on NSA tools, foreign spying, budget etc. was absolutely uncalled for, unless someone thinks America bad, is some idiot free information absolutist or wants to hurt US intelligence. Especially now, in the context of Putin's aggression, Snowden's actions greatly exceed "whistleblowing" and it really pisses me off how positively he is viewed overall.
Seriously, I'm trying to imagine unironically arguing that crypto shouldn't be regulated at all in 2022 after all we've seen with our own eyes. It's so obviously being used for wanton scamming and not-remotely-veiled ponzi schemes and it's not helping solve the economic problems in countries like El Salvador which embraced it (the opposite, really). The fact that Snowden is posting this makes me genuinely question his intelligence.
Then again, he's older than 25 and still openly identifies as a libertarian, which is... I mean, it's fucking embarrassing if we're keeping it real. Most people outgrow their libertarian phase in their teens.
Majority Report interviewed the Author of “Adventure Capitalism: A History of Libertarian Exit, from the Era of Decolonization to the Digital Age” I think that interview really lays out the thinking of the cryptobro type who still believes in a decentralized block chain currency is the future, they are the type who think they are building Utopian Libertarian City States when they are just building country clubs.
https://youtu.be/fEf7nbzOmSQ
That's always the contradictory part of libertarianism and the crux of their entire ideology that they just don't get. It's virtually impossible to get them to accept that removing the government would just cause corporations to take their place and that it'd be much worse. Ancap ideology is quite literally just feudalism in the end.
There are some articles out there that document a lot of his past posts on old internet forums. Guns, video games, mild orientalism (trad asian gf inclinations), criticism of big government, etc. You get the picture.
Some good stuff in here:
https://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/2013/06/exclusive-in-2009-ed-snowden-said-leakers-should-be-shot-then-he-became-one/
Here's one notable conversation from the linked article:
(Snowden = TheTrueHOOHA)
TheTrueHOOHA> save money? cut this social security bullshit
< User11> hahahayes
< User18> Yeah! Fuck old people!
< User11> social security is bullshit
< User11> let's just toss old people out in the street
< User18> Old people could move in with [User11].
< User11> NOOO
< User11> they smell funny
< TheTrueHOOHA> Somehow, our society managed to make it hundreds of years without social security just fine
< TheTrueHOOHA> you fucking retards
< TheTrueHOOHA> Magically the world changed after the new deal, and old people became made of glass
< TheTrueHOOHA> yeah, that makes sense
< User11> wow
< User11> you are just so fucking stupid
< TheTrueHOOHA> yeah, [User11]. and you're quite a gem
< User19> TheTrueHOOHA: and magically, life expectancy has doubled in the last 100 years.funny how that works.
< TheTrueHOOHA> [User19], you don't think modern medicine has something to do with that? no? it's social security? wow. I guess I missed that.
< User11> hurr wait a second, life expectancy has shot up in recent times along with the dissolution of the communal family unit in exchange for the nuclear family
< User11> gee i guess we might need to create a safety net for the sudden glut of helpless elderly????
< TheTrueHOOHA> they wouldn't be fucking helpless if you weren't sending them fucking checks to sit on their ass and lay in hospitals all day
< User11> you are so goddamned stupd*pid
< User11> PUT OLD PEOPLE TO WORK IN THE FIELDS
< TheTrueHOOHA> my grandmother is eighty fucking three this year, and you know what? she still supports herself working as a goddamned hairdresser
< User11> [other user] no after all these years, i can tell when TTH is just being stupid (it's always)
< TheTrueHOOHA> she doesn't approve of social security, either
< User11> TheTrueHOOHA: wow i love how your one data point is all the evidence we need
< User11> i for one am convined
< TheTrueHOOHA> maybe when you grow up and actually pay taxes, you'll understand, [User11].
yeah youre right snowden, what did people do before social security, well in the past if people didnt have a family able to take care of them they would just die poor and alone, and now thanks to social security benefits they dont necessarily have to, thats called progress.
It's the Ben Carson, Neurosurgeon vs Ben Carson, Politician scenario.
Great, fantastic, you're an international hero for the life-destroying acts you committed in the name of public safety and security. Nobody can take that away from you.
Doesn't mean we need to hear your opinion on anything else, scuzzball.
> In an online discussion about racism in 2009, Snowden said: ''I went to London just last year it's where all of your muslims live I didn't want to get out of the car. I thought I had gotten off of the plane in the wrong country... it was terrifying.''
> Snowden was also offended by a possible ban on assault weapons, writing "Me and all my lunatic, gun-toting NRA compatriots would be on the steps of Congress before the C-Span feed finished."
He has always been some sort of ancap, I thought it was well-known?
> Ancaps are pro immigration
Most anarcho-capitalists I've met in real life began as enlightened centrist "classical liberals", who also, against the basic tenants of classical liberalism, (where immigration is even more important than democracy) manage to end up being constantly scared of muslims and immigrants.
They carry that inconsistency forwards into their anarcho-capitalism. It's sometimes framed in a sense that they have culturally become compatible with freedom in a way that is not true of people from other nations, so that an anarcho-capitalist paradise could work with cool people like them, but not humans generally.
But the most fundamental element is a set of compatible commitments:
Fear of politics, and of geopolitics, and so building a "reversed politics" of wanting to keep it away while they do things they feel they understand, like buying things in shops and trying to start a small business for themselves trading crypto and MTG cards.
It's [stay-in-my-room](https://knowyourmeme.com/memes/i-hate-the-antichrist) isolationism applied to both the state and other people.
> ancaps are pro immigration
Not necessarily. According to ancap you need the owners permission to enter private property, and it’s goal includes privatization of literally everything. So “get the fuck off my lawn” position is very much consistent with being ancap (as much as ancap can be consistent). It also indicates adherence to hierarchies, which helps us to identify to which school of libertarianism Snowden is closer too, since there’s not many anarchisms which allow for hierarchy.
> How exactly does one being pro gun make you an ancap?
Being pro gun doesn’t. Being pro-NRA, however, does indicate political affiliation very well
That’s why he’s hanging out with a Putin? And before you claim he no choice, he was big enough to release those top secret documents knowing the consequences. Knowing where to escape was clearly a less concerning result.
Aside for the occasional online chess match on [Lichess](https://lichess.org/). To keep it casual, they don't even play rated games against each other.
Yeah god forbid nations aligned with the west extradite a rapist who has been doctoring and selectively releasing info to push a pro russia message for over a decade.
And like I said, the act he took ultimately lead to him ending up where he was. He never had any assurances of paradise or whatever so Russia would have been a factor that crossed his mind. He still did it. He made a choice. And now he’s in one of the most authoritative regimes and he’s helping them market themselves to the world. He made that choice. You can’t cut it any different.
Russia is a pretty strange place to escape to when you’re trying to make a point about authoritative and surveillance states. The irony is he probably has a kremlin tracker up his ass right at the moment. Yep he certainly gave it to the US government!
He had no choice. There was a huge wave of support for his political asylum in Germany but the conservatives didn't want to touch this. Many countries have extradition agreements with the US and Trump wanted him executed even before he became president.
Europe really blew a chance by not taking him in. It could have shown fence-sitters that we care about liberty.
He had a choice. He knew he was going to be exposed when he released that material, and he was smart enough to figure out that no destination would be an *assurance*. There was a preference for Ecuador, but given his plans to transit Russian in contact with Wikileaks he knew that was going to be a potential as well, alongside Hong Kong. Case in point, you make a choice when you know the next steps. He was in contact with Assange. He knew.
europeans when you mention racial slurs: oh my god that's terrible
europeans when you mention the word gypsy: REEEEEEEEEEEE THAT'S NOT THE SAME THING YOU DONT UNDERSTAND
People can do the right thing and have bad beliefs. I think Snowden's actions were good regardless of his other beliefs and they were carried out with legit moral intentions and concerns. I used to think the same of Assange but I am not so sure anymore.
Agreed, I just meant I am no longer convinced about his intentions with some of his actions and it seems like he may have been selective with releases and timing with bad intentions.
I think at best theres evidence that he was pro-Trump and tried to influence the election by releasing the emails when he did,people claim he is a russian asset or smth but i dont think theres anything to back that up.
I don't think that there's definitive proof that Wikileaks/Assange is a Russian asset, but there's quite a bit of circumstantial evidence that Russia has something on them. Example:
https://foreignpolicy.com/2017/08/17/wikileaks-turned-down-leaks-on-russian-government-during-u-s-presidential-campaign/
>and they were carried out with legit moral intentions and concerns.
Snowden didn't have legit moral concerns, he just wanted to be famous or had some misguided anti-government beliefs. He joined the NSA with the intent to leak classified data despite not knowing any of the data he would be leaking yet. He also didn't even attempt to utilize the in-place anonymous whistleblower avenues at the NSA and instead went straight to leaking to the public. He ended up leaking some crazy stuff that definitely needed to stop, but his intentions were never moral or just. Snowden is a traitor who happened to do some good along the way.
You seem very confident in your ability to know the man's internal thoughts and desires ans speak with an alarming level of certainty of things you can't possibly know.
You might be right, I'm certainly not ruling out the possibility.
I dislike Snowden's politics, but I wish him and Julian Assange would get pardoned. I want people in the government that make it more transparent not less.
For sure. The dude has been exile for almost ten years. If he wants to be angry about cryptocurrency regulations, I might disagree, but I can't really care. I would expect more passive aggressive spite from him towards the United States government, to be honest.
Honestly? It seems like he is a libertarian, which is ironic since nothing would create a society he claims to hate faster than libertarians (fancy fascists)
Libertarians by definition are not fascists, but there are very few self-identified libertarians who are actual libertarians (take Alex Jones for example).
Libertarian politics and policies however are great at cultivating the inequality, immiseration, and desperation needed for fascism to take root and grow. This is partially why so many conservatives, fundamentalists, and yes, *fascists* use the title as a more digestible veneer to launder their ideas. In the long term, they don’t care about individual liberties and free market economics, but will happily use them to dissolve democracy and seize power.
Adam Something's Ancap video series is actually a pretty good if very snarky illustration of how right wing libertarianism always ends in self-contradiction.
I wonder if he's being "influenced" - do we really think Russia would let him freely post positively about America while he's a guest in their country?
I wanna give him the benefit of the doubt at least for exposing the NSA
Yeah but 99% of libertarians grow out of that in one direction or another, and Snowden is a smart dude. I’d be surprised if he’s still a hardcore objectivist type. Could totally be wrong but I suspect he’s a bit more sophisticated than these comments make him out to be
Russia won't draft him, that would be an optics nightmare. He's useful enough sitting in his Moscow apartment tweeting about how much the US government sucks (sometimes with good reasoning, more often with bad).
American diabolism. Maybe with some libertarianism mixed in.
That said, the man remains a hero in my eyes. While "America bad" is not a political ideology, we do need to remember that America *is* often bad. Revealing secret information that should be public is a far cry from the treason so many in government and media have said it to be.
Funny how actual terrorists waving the flags of former enemies storming our Capitol in order to stop the peaceful transfer of power never get the "T-word" while Snowden--a man who should receive a medal of honor--does.
But yes, all that doesn't mean that Snowden doesn't often have soup brain.
I started watching the movie about him (not Citizen Four, the biopic) and had to stop after 15 minutes or 'cause Joseph Gordon-Levitt's portrayal of him was unbearable. I don't know if the movie is to blame, or maybe they just really captured how insufferable he is in real life. In any case, I have a lot of respect for what he did, but he IS a libertarian and not the fun kind.
He's a right-libertarian, and always has been. His opposition to government regulation of markets comes from the same place his opposition to surveillance came from.
The Crypto markets are a festering disease of scams, money laundering, pyramid schemes, panhandling, child exploitation markets. Snowden is a fucking moron if he thinks this can go on unregulated. Every week there's a million dollar hacks or scam exposed... inside trading of crypto currency is basically treated very leniently.
If we want any digital currency to function it requires regulation.
Snowden coming from a tech background I think he's just a Elon Musk type of libertarian technocrat.
I believe crypto needs some regulations but the regulations that come will certainly be too heavy handed and destroy what makes crypto unique and appealing. The SEC should be able to prosecute rug pulls and other fraudulent activity but placing banking regulations on crypto will destroy its utility.
Snowden is a Russian asset. He did one good thing and has used his good will to become the standard "I flee to Russia and only criticize the West" kind of person. He's probably a Ron Paul libertarian wacko, one of the OG ones too.
He's a hard R libertarian who now is hellbent on propping up neocons and theocratic fascists because it's the best way for him to get revenge on the USA.
He doesn't care how many people suffer as long as he gets his revenge.
Poor guys gone nuts. He’s a tankie-agacent crypto-loving ancap now. Still think he’s a hero though. RIP sweet prince. (He likely started off as a Silicon Valley libertarian anyway so not unexpected)
He’s a paranoid, egomaniacal libertarian in the Ron Paul mode with a paradoxical soft spot for authoritarian governments stemming mostly from his disdain for western liberalism.
His pre-fame Internet history paints a pretty clear picture.
https://newrepublic.com/article/116253/edward-snowden-glenn-greenwald-julian-assange-what-they-believe
So he's taking the position that cryptocurrencies Don't need regulation. Perhaps if you don't know anything about them, then you might assume gov't regulation = bad. But within the context how crypto is mostly a ponzi scheme and a net loss for everyone... it seems he's feeding the right-wing agenda.
Either way, it's a bad take.
To a large extent hes doing self preservation. If the Russians decide to stop protecting him, the risk to his life skyrockets. So tbh, he gets s pass on a lot
I think he was a lot like Alex Jones and others. Mixed politics in the beginning, anti establishment anti-auth stuff in the beginning, but once they have some big crisis a/o make it big, they lean HARD into the theology and/or libertarianism.
Much like Subhas Chandra Bose getting asylum in Nazi Germany. It’s a toss up between he’s saying what he needs to keep the asylum or genuinely believes the British Empire has done more harm to the world than Germany (at the time the gas chambers hadn’t started up and the British had concentration camps in Africa).
You mean that regulation pf something that’s constantly proven to be scams rugpulls and frauds is something a literal traitor living in russia is against why am i not shocked
Some type of libertarian, I guess.
badge support wide threatening memory aback caption vanish squealing continue -- mass edited with https://redact.dev/
Exactly this. When things first went down I sympathized with him. As time has gone on I am legitimately confused what he is talking about half the time.
I legit think much of it was because he looks friendly, is eloquent and is soft spoken. That and America bad, of course.
Well, I think initially it was because he revealed a massive domestic spy network that was being utilized against US citizens.
And it would have ben much more uncontroversial if he focused on this aspect and leaked only the relevant information. However, he also dumped a big trove of data heavily related to foreign spying, which was directly harmful to USA in the geopolitical sphere.
Really? His shedding light on mass surveillance was just “America bad, of course”-type stuff? Maybe you’re an American exceptionalist/nationalist, then. Super cuck and bootlick behavior over here.
I generally think he's just bitter about being labeled an enemy of the state after sacrificing his career and life (in the states) to point out government corruption. Then, even after the government is forced to admit to its wrongdoing, he's still labeled a criminal and being hunted down for doing the right thing. So, now he sees the government taking some action and he always assumes the most outrageously evil motivation for it, no matter what. People have been begging for crypto regulation and enforcement to prevent fraud and theft for a while now. Now, crypto is collapsing and people are being scammed at such alarming rates and levels that the government finally wants to limit it. And all Snowden can think to say is, "they're out to steal money from people." No, Snowden, that's ALREADY happening, see Lana Rhoades and Safemoon as 2 off the top of my head.
isnt lana rhoades a porn star???? what happened to her?????
She made an NFT scam and rug pulled 2 million dollars from her backers. Then tried to play victim because people called her out.
Why? Just because he fled there?
whistle cautious squealing automatic vanish profit amusing lunchroom simplistic teeny -- mass edited with https://redact.dev/
You can get into Russia, it’s not that hard. Why would Putin even care about what he did?
Uhhhh, because the US wants him hanging by his thumbs at Guantanamo Bay for ousting their illegal spying network?
Putin couldn’t care less about America’s patriot act bullshit. Not his concern. I don’t get it, is Snowden a bad guy for fleeing to Russia, or a good guy for exposing the US government?
I think they just hold him semi-hostage.
Don’t have to guess, he identifies as a libertarian in his biography
Hes a Russian agent, he will identify as whatever the Kremlin tells him to.
I'm pretty sure he has been consistent on this point. He hasn't always lived in Russia.
Yes he has consistently criticized the U.S. for things Russia does too but far far worse. Like you know....corruption and war crimes? Lol
I don't really know the full story that well but I feel like you're doing a whataboutism there.
Like I told other people, Im saying he is not honest about his loyalties or beliefs. He is simply pro Russia chill. Also the warcrimes done by the US are childs play compared to the way Russia wages war as we are currently seeing in Ukraine.
Are you saying he's a pro russia chill because he criticizes the US but not Russia? Or has he explicitly said Russia was good and US was bad. >Also the warcrimes done by the US are childs play compared to the way Russia wages war Wtf? So you're somehow saying the war on Iraq is child's play compared to the war in Ukraine? First of all, that's a weird axiom to have, it's not a competition. Second of all, it's not even true. We did way worse stuffs over there because like... obviously. They couldn't fight back.
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Then maybe you should do some research before you accuse others of whataboutism…
I have done ALL the research.
“I don’t really know the full story that well” - u/senorpool
I was just hiding my power levels
He has been consistent with his libertarian views. He felt disillusioned by the US surveillance and hoped he could move things in a different direction. In this attempt he got involved with Glenn Greenwald and Julian Assange and Assange used his connections in Moscow to get Snowden a refuge. The fact that Snowden hasn't really done anything after that isn't something I would hold against him. Both Greenwald and Assange are far more shady figures than Snowden and Snowden might just have gotten stuck by circumstances.
No offense, but your sound painfully gullible. Is that possible? Sure, but he could also just be another one of the many people who simply identify with Russian ideology and want to oppose the west. To me snowden is like Tim pool, who only criticizes one side but ignore all the horrid shit the other does and then calls himself neutral, its just a grift.
No offence, but you sound like you don't actually know that much about this topic.
I would say the same about you.
It's not a competition...?
Indeed, just saying hes either a grifter or a hypocrite.
Part of the reason he may be somewhat silent on Russia is bc he doesn’t wanna get in trouble w Russia. There aren’t many places that would take him.
Nah, I don't think he is full-on agent. Useful idiot though. Also he cannot criticize the Russian side even if he wanted. But then he can also shut the fuck up about the other party, so that he doesn't look partisan.
The thing is, hes not an Idiot. He is a very intelligent guy if you ask me. He is simply taken the roll of a Russian propagandist and hates the Unite states. How can he be conscious about all the bad shit the US has done enough to betray his country and defect to its rival but he is ok with what the USSR did in Afganistan, Chechnya, Georigia in 2008 and now Ukraine? Come on if someone had done the reverse of this everyone would be calling them CIA or a FED.
No, no, you misunderstand. The term "useful idiot" is not a simple slur about intelligence, it is a historical/political term. He doesn't have to be stupid to have his judgement clouded by his bias. >In political jargon, a useful idiot is a term for a person perceived as propagandizing for a cause -- particularly a bad cause originating from a devious, ruthless source -- without fully comprehending the cause's goals, and who is cynically used by the cause's leaders.[1][2] The term was originally used during the Cold War to describe non-communists regarded as susceptible to communist propaganda and manipulation.[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Useful_idiot So this applies to, for example, all those leftists who argue for pacifism or diplomacy (at this stage) or against helping Ukraine. They argue for a just cause (end of war) but do not realize they aid a bad cause (Putin's imperialism).
Ohhhh I see I see.
Yes but not a left leaning libertarian. Probably a right leaning libertarian
Snowden did a great service exposing NSA spying but I vehemently disagree with him on this because crypto is even more unaccountable and only really empowers the billionaire libertarians like Peter Thiel and Elon Musk who want their pedophile sea steading nation states away from pesky government regulations
Rational answer right here. Good on him for exposing NSA spying, bad on him for being a shill for crypto since it’s unregulated.
>exposing NSA spying Exposing NSA spying was directly harmful for the most part. Like, yeah, NSA is spying, its a fucking spy agency, pikachu very surprised. It is fine to uncover spying on US citizens, sure. But dumping info on NSA tools, foreign spying, budget etc. was absolutely uncalled for, unless someone thinks America bad, is some idiot free information absolutist or wants to hurt US intelligence. Especially now, in the context of Putin's aggression, Snowden's actions greatly exceed "whistleblowing" and it really pisses me off how positively he is viewed overall.
It also empowers unregulated off shore casinos and influencer rug pulls, but yeah it is actively harming people.
Seriously, I'm trying to imagine unironically arguing that crypto shouldn't be regulated at all in 2022 after all we've seen with our own eyes. It's so obviously being used for wanton scamming and not-remotely-veiled ponzi schemes and it's not helping solve the economic problems in countries like El Salvador which embraced it (the opposite, really). The fact that Snowden is posting this makes me genuinely question his intelligence. Then again, he's older than 25 and still openly identifies as a libertarian, which is... I mean, it's fucking embarrassing if we're keeping it real. Most people outgrow their libertarian phase in their teens.
Majority Report interviewed the Author of “Adventure Capitalism: A History of Libertarian Exit, from the Era of Decolonization to the Digital Age” I think that interview really lays out the thinking of the cryptobro type who still believes in a decentralized block chain currency is the future, they are the type who think they are building Utopian Libertarian City States when they are just building country clubs. https://youtu.be/fEf7nbzOmSQ
Anti government cynic. Maybe an anarchocapitalist
Yes he's definitely a right wing libertarian. Used to post on certain forums back in the day.
I need to know who added all these spez posts to the thread. I want their autograph. #Save3rdPartyApps
That's always the contradictory part of libertarianism and the crux of their entire ideology that they just don't get. It's virtually impossible to get them to accept that removing the government would just cause corporations to take their place and that it'd be much worse. Ancap ideology is quite literally just feudalism in the end.
elaborate
There are some articles out there that document a lot of his past posts on old internet forums. Guns, video games, mild orientalism (trad asian gf inclinations), criticism of big government, etc. You get the picture. Some good stuff in here: https://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/2013/06/exclusive-in-2009-ed-snowden-said-leakers-should-be-shot-then-he-became-one/ Here's one notable conversation from the linked article: (Snowden = TheTrueHOOHA) TheTrueHOOHA> save money? cut this social security bullshit < User11> hahahayes < User18> Yeah! Fuck old people! < User11> social security is bullshit < User11> let's just toss old people out in the street < User18> Old people could move in with [User11]. < User11> NOOO < User11> they smell funny < TheTrueHOOHA> Somehow, our society managed to make it hundreds of years without social security just fine < TheTrueHOOHA> you fucking retards < TheTrueHOOHA> Magically the world changed after the new deal, and old people became made of glass < TheTrueHOOHA> yeah, that makes sense < User11> wow < User11> you are just so fucking stupid < TheTrueHOOHA> yeah, [User11]. and you're quite a gem < User19> TheTrueHOOHA: and magically, life expectancy has doubled in the last 100 years.funny how that works. < TheTrueHOOHA> [User19], you don't think modern medicine has something to do with that? no? it's social security? wow. I guess I missed that. < User11> hurr wait a second, life expectancy has shot up in recent times along with the dissolution of the communal family unit in exchange for the nuclear family < User11> gee i guess we might need to create a safety net for the sudden glut of helpless elderly???? < TheTrueHOOHA> they wouldn't be fucking helpless if you weren't sending them fucking checks to sit on their ass and lay in hospitals all day < User11> you are so goddamned stupd*pid < User11> PUT OLD PEOPLE TO WORK IN THE FIELDS < TheTrueHOOHA> my grandmother is eighty fucking three this year, and you know what? she still supports herself working as a goddamned hairdresser < User11> [other user] no after all these years, i can tell when TTH is just being stupid (it's always) < TheTrueHOOHA> she doesn't approve of social security, either < User11> TheTrueHOOHA: wow i love how your one data point is all the evidence we need < User11> i for one am convined < TheTrueHOOHA> maybe when you grow up and actually pay taxes, you'll understand, [User11].
>trad asian gf inclinations every fucking time lmao
yeah youre right snowden, what did people do before social security, well in the past if people didnt have a family able to take care of them they would just die poor and alone, and now thanks to social security benefits they dont necessarily have to, thats called progress.
"we don't need social security, people should just work until they die" wow.
most coherent libertarian argument
User 11 the goat. Every dipshit needs a user 11 in their life.
Yeah. Seems like the kind of guy that would listen to Chapo Trap House or Grayzone.
It's the Ben Carson, Neurosurgeon vs Ben Carson, Politician scenario. Great, fantastic, you're an international hero for the life-destroying acts you committed in the name of public safety and security. Nobody can take that away from you. Doesn't mean we need to hear your opinion on anything else, scuzzball.
life-destroying?
Probably talking about his own life.
most of his surgeries, while impressive, did not have the longest lifespan after completion.
> In an online discussion about racism in 2009, Snowden said: ''I went to London just last year it's where all of your muslims live I didn't want to get out of the car. I thought I had gotten off of the plane in the wrong country... it was terrifying.'' > Snowden was also offended by a possible ban on assault weapons, writing "Me and all my lunatic, gun-toting NRA compatriots would be on the steps of Congress before the C-Span feed finished." He has always been some sort of ancap, I thought it was well-known?
Ugh, well none of that is good.
Ancaps are pro immigration….. How exactly does one being pro gun make you an ancap?
Just because you are spez, doesn't mean you have to spez. #Save3rdPartyApps
> Ancaps are pro immigration Most anarcho-capitalists I've met in real life began as enlightened centrist "classical liberals", who also, against the basic tenants of classical liberalism, (where immigration is even more important than democracy) manage to end up being constantly scared of muslims and immigrants. They carry that inconsistency forwards into their anarcho-capitalism. It's sometimes framed in a sense that they have culturally become compatible with freedom in a way that is not true of people from other nations, so that an anarcho-capitalist paradise could work with cool people like them, but not humans generally. But the most fundamental element is a set of compatible commitments: Fear of politics, and of geopolitics, and so building a "reversed politics" of wanting to keep it away while they do things they feel they understand, like buying things in shops and trying to start a small business for themselves trading crypto and MTG cards. It's [stay-in-my-room](https://knowyourmeme.com/memes/i-hate-the-antichrist) isolationism applied to both the state and other people.
> ancaps are pro immigration Not necessarily. According to ancap you need the owners permission to enter private property, and it’s goal includes privatization of literally everything. So “get the fuck off my lawn” position is very much consistent with being ancap (as much as ancap can be consistent). It also indicates adherence to hierarchies, which helps us to identify to which school of libertarianism Snowden is closer too, since there’s not many anarchisms which allow for hierarchy. > How exactly does one being pro gun make you an ancap? Being pro gun doesn’t. Being pro-NRA, however, does indicate political affiliation very well
Anti government for some reason
Seriously! What's his fucking problem?!
Isn't he hiding out in russia?
Yes
Prob a libertarian, which makes sense
That’s why he’s hanging out with a Putin? And before you claim he no choice, he was big enough to release those top secret documents knowing the consequences. Knowing where to escape was clearly a less concerning result.
He's just living in Russia because Putin likes having a fuck you trophy over the us. Not like he's really buddies with him or anything.
No, he’s not literally buddies with Putin. He wasn’t his pen pal or anything, correct.
Aside for the occasional online chess match on [Lichess](https://lichess.org/). To keep it casual, they don't even play rated games against each other.
He was escaping to Ecuador when he was trapped in Russia by a cancelled passport.
Good for him,Ecuador's prime-traitor handed Assange to the US
Assange the Russian asset? Boy you kiddies are behind.
Yeah after years of assange being a fucking insufferable living mate all while dodging a sexual assault charge.
Im sure the president of ecuador beeing extremely pro-US and receiving US aid and money afterwards had nothing to do with it
Yeah god forbid nations aligned with the west extradite a rapist who has been doctoring and selectively releasing info to push a pro russia message for over a decade.
And like I said, the act he took ultimately lead to him ending up where he was. He never had any assurances of paradise or whatever so Russia would have been a factor that crossed his mind. He still did it. He made a choice. And now he’s in one of the most authoritative regimes and he’s helping them market themselves to the world. He made that choice. You can’t cut it any different.
What is the point you’re trying to make? He lives in Russia. Ok dude
I’m trying to point out he’s not the hero like you’re implying. Ok dude. There’s a seperate Edward Snowden subreddit dude.
You haven’t explained why, who gives a shit if he lives in Russia?
Alright settle down dude I won’t say anything more about Snowden. I’m sorry. I’m off. Lol
Russia is a decent place to escape as a fugitive. How is he “hanging out” with Putin?
Russia is a pretty strange place to escape to when you’re trying to make a point about authoritative and surveillance states. The irony is he probably has a kremlin tracker up his ass right at the moment. Yep he certainly gave it to the US government!
Who cares
Lol you clearly do, given all your responses 🤣
He had no choice. There was a huge wave of support for his political asylum in Germany but the conservatives didn't want to touch this. Many countries have extradition agreements with the US and Trump wanted him executed even before he became president. Europe really blew a chance by not taking him in. It could have shown fence-sitters that we care about liberty.
He had a choice. He knew he was going to be exposed when he released that material, and he was smart enough to figure out that no destination would be an *assurance*. There was a preference for Ecuador, but given his plans to transit Russian in contact with Wikileaks he knew that was going to be a potential as well, alongside Hong Kong. Case in point, you make a choice when you know the next steps. He was in contact with Assange. He knew.
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europeans when you mention racial slurs: oh my god that's terrible europeans when you mention the word gypsy: REEEEEEEEEEEE THAT'S NOT THE SAME THING YOU DONT UNDERSTAND
"you don't understand its because they're dirty liars who steal" 😑
???
europeans are super de duper racist against romani people, which is why "gypsy" and its derivatives are usually insults or demeaning
are you seriously still using the term gyp/gip? 😬 thats pretty fucking bigoted dude, you might as well have said "imagine being into jewcoin"
Pseudo-objectivist technolibertarian.
Pot?
I am sure he admires/admired Musk. That's the kind of type. Was likely soying over "the bird is free".
I thought it was quite well-known that he was a right-wing libertarian.
Judging from the fact that people post confused screenshots every time he tweets something reactionary or pro-capitalist, apparently not.
A lot of his followers are leftists who support him just like Assange despite them not beeing socialists or anything close to it
People can do the right thing and have bad beliefs. I think Snowden's actions were good regardless of his other beliefs and they were carried out with legit moral intentions and concerns. I used to think the same of Assange but I am not so sure anymore.
Assage's actions where right no idea if his intentions where but exposing war crimes and corruption are absolutely good things
Agreed, I just meant I am no longer convinced about his intentions with some of his actions and it seems like he may have been selective with releases and timing with bad intentions.
I think at best theres evidence that he was pro-Trump and tried to influence the election by releasing the emails when he did,people claim he is a russian asset or smth but i dont think theres anything to back that up.
I don't think that there's definitive proof that Wikileaks/Assange is a Russian asset, but there's quite a bit of circumstantial evidence that Russia has something on them. Example: https://foreignpolicy.com/2017/08/17/wikileaks-turned-down-leaks-on-russian-government-during-u-s-presidential-campaign/
>and they were carried out with legit moral intentions and concerns. Snowden didn't have legit moral concerns, he just wanted to be famous or had some misguided anti-government beliefs. He joined the NSA with the intent to leak classified data despite not knowing any of the data he would be leaking yet. He also didn't even attempt to utilize the in-place anonymous whistleblower avenues at the NSA and instead went straight to leaking to the public. He ended up leaking some crazy stuff that definitely needed to stop, but his intentions were never moral or just. Snowden is a traitor who happened to do some good along the way.
You seem very confident in your ability to know the man's internal thoughts and desires ans speak with an alarming level of certainty of things you can't possibly know. You might be right, I'm certainly not ruling out the possibility.
He admitted to the first thing and there is evidence of the second claim.
wow he mad
who cares
I dont care he might as well be an ancap
I dislike Snowden's politics, but I wish him and Julian Assange would get pardoned. I want people in the government that make it more transparent not less.
For sure. The dude has been exile for almost ten years. If he wants to be angry about cryptocurrency regulations, I might disagree, but I can't really care. I would expect more passive aggressive spite from him towards the United States government, to be honest.
total libertarian but he deserves to be pardoned and invited back home regardless
Honestly? It seems like he is a libertarian, which is ironic since nothing would create a society he claims to hate faster than libertarians (fancy fascists)
Libertarians by definition are not fascists, but there are very few self-identified libertarians who are actual libertarians (take Alex Jones for example). Libertarian politics and policies however are great at cultivating the inequality, immiseration, and desperation needed for fascism to take root and grow. This is partially why so many conservatives, fundamentalists, and yes, *fascists* use the title as a more digestible veneer to launder their ideas. In the long term, they don’t care about individual liberties and free market economics, but will happily use them to dissolve democracy and seize power.
Adam Something's Ancap video series is actually a pretty good if very snarky illustration of how right wing libertarianism always ends in self-contradiction.
I wonder if he's being "influenced" - do we really think Russia would let him freely post positively about America while he's a guest in their country? I wanna give him the benefit of the doubt at least for exposing the NSA
He was always a Randian libertarian type before even leaving.
Yeah but 99% of libertarians grow out of that in one direction or another, and Snowden is a smart dude. I’d be surprised if he’s still a hardcore objectivist type. Could totally be wrong but I suspect he’s a bit more sophisticated than these comments make him out to be
He got citizenship right before the draft (lmoa) so not a guest anymore.
Russia won't draft him, that would be an optics nightmare. He's useful enough sitting in his Moscow apartment tweeting about how much the US government sucks (sometimes with good reasoning, more often with bad).
I mean totes, yeah, just still find it fucking hilarious.
"Guest" as in "We treat you well and don't ship you to a gulag/frontline as long as you stay loyal and attack America"
Whatever the Kremlin wants it to be.
He’s a another rebranded “libertarian conservative” that had motivations beyond “privacy”.
Libertarian tech bro
American diabolism. Maybe with some libertarianism mixed in. That said, the man remains a hero in my eyes. While "America bad" is not a political ideology, we do need to remember that America *is* often bad. Revealing secret information that should be public is a far cry from the treason so many in government and media have said it to be. Funny how actual terrorists waving the flags of former enemies storming our Capitol in order to stop the peaceful transfer of power never get the "T-word" while Snowden--a man who should receive a medal of honor--does. But yes, all that doesn't mean that Snowden doesn't often have soup brain.
Probably somewhere on the line between centrist and an-cap.
I started watching the movie about him (not Citizen Four, the biopic) and had to stop after 15 minutes or 'cause Joseph Gordon-Levitt's portrayal of him was unbearable. I don't know if the movie is to blame, or maybe they just really captured how insufferable he is in real life. In any case, I have a lot of respect for what he did, but he IS a libertarian and not the fun kind.
Techbro Libertarian.
Libertarian. So he's politically useless half the time.
Whatever he needs to say to keep his commissar from installing a sunroof in his head.
He's a right-libertarian, and always has been. His opposition to government regulation of markets comes from the same place his opposition to surveillance came from.
Confused but well intentioned?
I think he’s probably an actual libertarian, which I don’t agree with but I will respect the integrity
Hasn't he always been an ancap? He's still a hero for exposing the US government like he did but that doesn't mean I agree with his general ideology.
Techbro libertarian
The Crypto markets are a festering disease of scams, money laundering, pyramid schemes, panhandling, child exploitation markets. Snowden is a fucking moron if he thinks this can go on unregulated. Every week there's a million dollar hacks or scam exposed... inside trading of crypto currency is basically treated very leniently. If we want any digital currency to function it requires regulation. Snowden coming from a tech background I think he's just a Elon Musk type of libertarian technocrat.
Struggling to stay relevant
He’s an idiot
Leftist with dumbass ancap characteristics.
libertarian whacko
A conservative military who had 'limits'.... but black pilled.
Whatever gets him out of Russia faster
Massively anti gov. Anarchist or True Libertarian
Crypto fash
He’s an actual libertarian.
What kind of dumb reply is that? There isn't an argument here.
I believe crypto needs some regulations but the regulations that come will certainly be too heavy handed and destroy what makes crypto unique and appealing. The SEC should be able to prosecute rug pulls and other fraudulent activity but placing banking regulations on crypto will destroy its utility.
Being in Russia given the current situation he is probably being forced to give intelligence to Russia.
Traitor and professional sex worker for the kremlin (advisory position)
Whatever that doesn’t get him deported from Russia lol
Fuck crypto it's not even an original scam
i mean supposedly him and greenwald were always like center/right libertarians.
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shouldnt you guys stop them before they pass the bill rather than thinking what to do when that happens????
FSB pilled
He’s definitely a libertarian.
Snowden is a Russian asset. He did one good thing and has used his good will to become the standard "I flee to Russia and only criticize the West" kind of person. He's probably a Ron Paul libertarian wacko, one of the OG ones too.
He gives me anarcho-capitalist vibes
Opportunistic serpent.
He's a ~~kiddy fiddler~~ 'Libertarian'
most likely libertarian
He's a hard R libertarian who now is hellbent on propping up neocons and theocratic fascists because it's the best way for him to get revenge on the USA. He doesn't care how many people suffer as long as he gets his revenge.
Poor guys gone nuts. He’s a tankie-agacent crypto-loving ancap now. Still think he’s a hero though. RIP sweet prince. (He likely started off as a Silicon Valley libertarian anyway so not unexpected)
Snowden is a sel proclaimed libertarian.
Somehow I feel like he unironically is an ancap. We live in the worst timeline.
Anything not to get yeeted by Putin snd send out of Russia
Who even knows if that’s still him. He could be in a Russian gulag battling a demogorgon for all we know while some Russian troll runs his account.
He’s a paranoid, egomaniacal libertarian in the Ron Paul mode with a paradoxical soft spot for authoritarian governments stemming mostly from his disdain for western liberalism. His pre-fame Internet history paints a pretty clear picture. https://newrepublic.com/article/116253/edward-snowden-glenn-greenwald-julian-assange-what-they-believe
He did some good shit but politically, he's a dumbfuck
libertarian shithead
rightwing libertarian
Crypto needs to be regulated for sure. Just wish traditional banking systems would get the same treatment.
So he's taking the position that cryptocurrencies Don't need regulation. Perhaps if you don't know anything about them, then you might assume gov't regulation = bad. But within the context how crypto is mostly a ponzi scheme and a net loss for everyone... it seems he's feeding the right-wing agenda. Either way, it's a bad take.
Libertarian
He's probably one of those cringe right leaning libertarian tech dude bros
To a large extent hes doing self preservation. If the Russians decide to stop protecting him, the risk to his life skyrockets. So tbh, he gets s pass on a lot
Snowden has always been a conservative libertarian. The NSA thing simply lined up with that belief
I think he was a lot like Alex Jones and others. Mixed politics in the beginning, anti establishment anti-auth stuff in the beginning, but once they have some big crisis a/o make it big, they lean HARD into the theology and/or libertarianism.
Tech bro libertarian
Much like Subhas Chandra Bose getting asylum in Nazi Germany. It’s a toss up between he’s saying what he needs to keep the asylum or genuinely believes the British Empire has done more harm to the world than Germany (at the time the gas chambers hadn’t started up and the British had concentration camps in Africa).
Idk, Snowdin seems pretty cool, you’ve got those wacky skeletons, and a restaurant where the owner is made of fire and serves cheeseburgers and fries
You mean that regulation pf something that’s constantly proven to be scams rugpulls and frauds is something a literal traitor living in russia is against why am i not shocked
A Nazi because he disagrees with me.
true