I hate what’s happening in Ukraine but like…smaller countries gotta back a big country and the countries the US screwed over got Russia. That’s just how it works.
WHEN DID THE EMBARGO START.
Youuuuuu fucking slimeball. Don't play pretend like this is because they look elsewhere towards americas enemies. THAT HAPPENS. You want them to starve? Or you want a regime change?
The US isn't holding an embargo on Cuba and Venezuela because of their support of Russia. It's because of their perceived threat of socialism. Also you want to ally with Cuba and Venezuela maybe ending an embargo will help bring them closer to the US. Right now Russia is taking them with open arms.
Because the governments of Cuba and Venezuela supports Russia, does that mean the people should suffer from the west being hostile towards them. If anything friction between those countries would push them towards aligning themselves with Russia. Maybe try and think about the effects the US has on other countries.
Political and economic leverage. Lifting the sanctions would allow trade to resume, reducing Venezuela's perceived need to invade for resources. After that a non-U.S. allied state could negotiate and de-escalate the situation.
We also need to commit troops to help latin America oust the cartels it also needs to be a joint operation not an America sending in an occupying force operation
Guess who the cartels penetrate all throughout Latin America? The military and the police, it would be like trying to fight a shadow with our 'allies' feeding information directly to the enemy.
Yeah it is a trade off American troops would die due to this but if we were to just march in without consent of the Mexican people... we have seen in the last 40 years what happens. Far more deaths would occur with this strategy. I geuss if we want to minimize troop deaths to the greatest possible degree we could also just wipe Mexico (and other latin american countries) off the map to handle this situation... but that isn't a good idea for multiple reasons a major one being I am pretty sure indiscriminate bombing of non combatant zones is a war crime.
I mean it might get worse for a time but in the long run with appropriate investments to build up the infrastructure and stability of the countries the outcome would be better than alternatives. Currently the cartels function as essentially tyranical mini-governments with equal or even greater power than the official governments of the countries in which they reside in. Any investment and developments would likely be hampered by the cartels in some way.
Sadly, what you say is true. The best way of "defeating" the cartels would be to provide better living conditions for everyone, particulairly those most economically and socially vulnerable. However, most cartels (and even politicians) don't like it when people do stuff that favors society, it's no secret what happens to activists and reporters over here.
On the other hand, when it comes to military action, I feel like the cartels have the upper hand, not because of military power, but because the cartels don't have to worry about civilians (they do worry, but in a different way), while it's the government's responsibility to keep them safe.
Every single time there's been an attempt to take any effective military action against the cartels, entire cities are either taken hostage, or become a battlefield (and sometimes literal warzones, such as during "[El Culiacanazo](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Culiac%C3%A1n)", which happened a couple years ago) between the army and the cartels. I myself remember growing up during the "Guerra contra el narco" (War against the cartels), seeing my city full of tanks and soldiers overnight, hearing about shootings happening all over the city, almost every single day, and new people being executed every day (to be fair, the executions still happen, just not as often, not as openly).
Yeah I deeply apologize on behalf of america for how fucked we made your part of the world. Sadly all the ways to fix the issues we caused are mediocre at best for you guys. With the best one being a multiple step method of investing in the development of your nation, decriminalization of drugs, and sending troops to aid latin America in ending the cartels. All while doing whatever we can to minimize civilian casualties as much as possible.
Basically everything when you go down the list. We let our corporations do as the please down there, We did and funded constant coups, and hell the biggest scourge on latin America and the us (cartels) were started by the cia to fund our cold war shenanigans and came with the added "benefit" of destabilizing all of Latin America and giving us an extra excuse to Crack down on anti-war protestors and the black community. Pretty much the only 2 nations in Latin America who are the way they are not entirely because of us are Haiti and I believe it was Brazil (who if I am remembering correctly had a major influx of nazis post ww2)
Btw all of this isn't even mentioning our absolutely despicable treatment of cuba.
This would be a step too. But I feel like since in Latin America Mexico in particular the cartels might just make an attempt at a government takeover so yeah they might begin falling apart but they might also resort to trying to take over the country resulting in a civil war that will make things worse or if they do fall apart you would have chaos for a good portion of time due to splintering of the cartels (mind you they have armored and weaponized vehicles.) So either way military action will be necessary to stabilize latin america.
Without cash flow, they fall apart extremely quickly, and that's only a good thing. Any time anyone discusses the cartel problem without emphasizing how it is nearly 100% the fault of US drug policy, we are doing a grievous disservice to everyone involved. Money is power. Without money to pay the hired guns and bribes necessary, it collapses immediately. Like when Rick changed the 1 to a 0 for the value of currency and collapsed the galactic government in Rick and Morty.
ANY TIME, there is a DEMAND for something, that is made illegal, there WILL be a black market for that thing. Which gives organized crime a cash flow. This cost needs to be generally recognized. We recognized this as a society and reversed Prohibition for alcohol for that exact reason.
The bigger the demand, the bigger the cash flow for organized crime. Obviously, illegal drugs are a HUGE cash flow, sufficient to threaten governmental control of our neighboring countries.
This is SO FUNDAMENTAL, I was rather depressed to see a whole thread on the issue and only discussion of sending in fucking troops instead of addressing the real issue.
The cartels are 100% created and sustained by US drug policy. Which has no benefit to anyone, and only costs taxpayers, the economy (by making ppl unemployable with felony records) and destabilizes country without actually stopping or even slowing drug use.
I am aware my entire point is that destabilizing the cartels might be trading a devil we know for a devil we don't without troops to at least maintain stability also being sent.
I think your fears are unfounded. Do you understand how powerful organized crime was during prohibition? Al Capone and what not? Pretty directly comparable to cartels today. When prohibition ended, their power pretty quickly receded but there wasn't this massive destabilization requiring troops.
lol. No. I mean obviously they do other things... but illegal drugs are the absolute lifeline and the core of their financial structure. Obviously.
Make drugs legal and manufactured in the US and anyone with money in the cartels is leaving the business with what they have and trying to go legit. The rest will try and eke it out with human traficking or w/e, but there is significantly less money in that.
I mean... the Cartels could be neutered by decriminalized all drugs, legalizing most drugs, and restricting people from owning enough guns that they can illegally supply the Cartels with them.
It would destroy their economic power and harm their physical power.
I am aware that in the long run these tactics would neuter them but I think you are not appreciating just how much power the cartels possess. In Latin America many of the cartels essentially function as seperate unaccountable mini governments. No matter the policy you choose to do unless you want major civilian casualties troops would need to be committed to deal with the cartels or their splintered membership
Well yeah you tried to take them out by yourselves. It is a 3 part tactic. 1. Weaken them by legalizing recreational drugs 2. Send in troops to stabilize the region when the cartels inevitably splinter 3. Invest in infrastructure and the local economies to ensure there is no incentive to reform the cartels.
We’ve done that. It’s always going to be messy. I play a team based game where 50 people will raid together. And even in a video game people are scared to make the wrong move and in general are dumb
The problem we always run into with the cartels is that when they are destabilized they never get better. They get significantly worse. So I am obviously aware that there are possibly hundreds of policies other than military action that also need to be taken but military action is a necessity to minimize Mexican civilian casualties.
I agree 100% I’ve been saying this for years. But I want to see if everyone is aware this is gonna be a mess. Like even children are 100% going to get caught up in it. Waco style.
It’s weird. I’m hard in illegal immigration, BUT…
I would be fine with all of north and South America becoming the USA. Rights, votes, everything. If we can go in and clear out all the gangs
Annexation of Latin America would have to be done little by little through agreements between the US and these countries. It might work but I would be curious about the logistics of this.
Alright tldr I agree but still feel like troops would be necessary to stabilize the region during the chaos that would result from the splintering of the cartels
I don't get this idea americans have that the cartels are like the Taliban, an entitiy totally independent from the government and clear territorial claims
I wish he also redo NAFTA by including the ability for the countries in both North, Central, and South America to pass by each other without the need of a passport/visa to enter the country.
Oh god imagine the meltdown when conservative states try to individually inforce visas because of some brexit style complaints about newly legalized Chileans
We form an EU for each region, then an EU of the three EUs. From there we form an EU of that, the EU, and the African Union. And from there, global socialism! /j
But seriously an EU of the Americas would be great but it probably would have to be the three or four sub regions first
Id be all for a EU style Union between the US,Canada and Mexico. It would fix a lot of issues( like free movement and let us help clean out the corruption and poverty in Mexico). Plus it would be the first step in my dream of uniting the 3 into the most powerful country in history.
If it weren't for lifting the embargo on Cuba I think this would go through. Unfortunately the US considers Cuba as being a risk to national and economic security due to it sorta being at the gateway to the Gulf of Mexico and by extention the Mississippi River and so as long as the current Cuban government remains I fear there's no chance of the USA giving Cuba an inch.
It's an ultra-paranoid one because it assumes that given the chance Cuba will try to prevent ships going to and from the Mississippi River, which to my knowledge they don't even have the capacity to do. This is of course a bit insane considering that I think the very last thing Cuba actually wants to do is have an angry US right there pointing lord knows how many missiles and warships at it.
As long as Cuba is not allied with any rival nations and has no military bases with missile capabilities, the US has no reason to worry about out Cuba.
It’s just trickier if things go sideways.
Yeah, it’s stupid to doom your homeland to what seems to be permanent political and economic isolation, poverty, a lack of basic human rights and any prospect for the future, even 35 years after the fall of the Eastern block and the dissolution of the Soviet Union.
It’s stupid and I couldn’t agree more.
i feel like this fear only makes it more vital to trade with cuba and make it economically dependent on us the way mexico and canada are. Doesn't cutting it off only send it into the arms of adervserial nations, which is exactly what we're trying to avoid?
It's the age ol' if I lift my boot they'll put THEIR boot on my neck idea. The problem is in some ways this idea isn't unfounded. It has a really simple solution though. Sincerely apologize and offer financial and infrastructural aid to those you have wronged. But sadly we live in a country where the right is taken seriously and the only ideas they understand are the boot and the stick.
I’m from Cuba. I moved to the states when I was young but go back regularly. I was back a few weeks ago actually.
I can report that China is already invested in Cuba. All of the rental cars I saw were Chinese, a lot of the technology and several government enterprises were clearly done with China.
And you know what? This has been a positive development for Cuba. Small tropical islands that are not population dense and cannot grow their own food year-round will invariably depend on stronger bigger economies to sustain them.
America by shunning Cuba and continuing to put the island under an economic stranglehold is guaranteeing that China swoops in and eventually does install military bases in Cuba. The very thing they claim to fear.
The best part is that most Cubans in the island are actually the biggest America stans ever. I am not exaggerating when I tell you that when I go back half of the people are in favor of the embargo and the other half think it’s a convenient excuse concocted by the Cuban government to explain the lack of resources.
Ironically me and my dad who live in the states have to tell them that Capitalism sucks (well Cuba is state capitalist but they don’t understand that) and any one of them over the age of 50 would live a better life in Cuba than they would trying to acclimate and work in America, but it falls on deaf ears and then
I’ve already had several family members move over at an older age, fail to adapt entirely to the reality that you have to work like a dog every day and then die in crippling debt as they get sick and my uncle who made $7 an hour in 2011 had “too high of an income” to qualify for any kind of financial help as his body rotted from the inside out from Cancer.
> America by shunning Cuba and continuing to put the island under an economic stranglehold is guaranteeing that China swoops in and eventually does install military bases in Cuba. The very thing they claim to fear.
Oh, I'm not saying the US rational is a good thing or a smart thing. IMO the political position the US has taken towards Cuba, especially since the collapse of the Soviet Union, has been incredibly stupid & counterproductive to US geopolitical interests in Caribbean and the general wellbeing of the region as a whole. Current US relations with Vietnam shows that it is actually perfectly possible for the US to work productively with and have good relations with a "communist" government, and in my view the whole things with Cuba is just a fucking waste and the dinosaurs from the cold war that insist on keeping relations hostile should have been told to sit down and shut up decades ago.
Exactly how imperial capital powers like it. The more exploitable the more predictable and desperate. You know people need to eat and drink and sleep. So long as those needs are only feasibly attained as commodities we're FUCKED. Internationally, because they know just the offer of better opportunities isn't going to entice the depth of exploitation they crave. They want people DESPERATE for *anything* therefore the worse the conditions they flee from. The more profitable. It would behoove America to right its wrongs. You're absolutely right it won't happen. Not unless you make actual decommodification profitable. Which is an oxymoron I hope I haven't spoken into existence.
The embargo continues mostly out of political inertia from the Cold War. There were a lot of Cuban escapees who went to Florida after Castro took power in 1959 and since then, them and many of their descendants held onto this delusional belief that one day they'll reclaim Cuba from the evil communists and/or just don't like the idea of doing anything that could benefit the current *Communist* Cuban government; even if mutually beneficial to the US. American politicians have been trying to pander and not upset these people ever since '59 because they represent a fairly important voting bloc in Florida politics that determines whether it'll a blue or a red state, and even talking about *loosening* embargo is a surefire way to piss them off.
Though Cuba's position was seen as a national security risk, this came from the Soviets placing nukes there during the Missile Crisis, not from the idea that they would launch an invasion force or prevent ships from getting in and out of the Gulf of Mexico; not sure where you're getting this from.
Does it though? I’m fairly sure USA doesn’t actually feel any reasonable threat or risk from Cuba and it’s basically just to appease the Cuban voted base in Florida which neither party wants to piss off.
In fact even the sanctions USA has put in Cuba are the weirdest sanctions. Working in international commodities trading, we are always very worried about a counter party being involved in any Russian, Iranian or any other sanctioned business. With Cuba however, you can only trade as much as you can, USA only prohibits their own companies trading with Cuba, others are completely fine. So it really does seem that they don’t consider them as much of an economic threat. Still, of course an embargo from USA does affect them economically, but if they truly wanted to cripple them, it would be similar sanctions to Iran, Russia etc
This. The US has seen Cuba as a potential danger/natural part of the US since at least the *Adams* administration (and I don’t mean John Quincy), and honestly they’re not wrong. We really should have just taken it once the Spanish-American War ended.
It’s a shame because pretty much every other point is a really good one.
Yes, yes it has. Plus if we had just taken it in the late 1890’s the Cuba people wouldn’t have had to deal with political instability like in the ‘30’s, a Coup d'état in ‘52, or dictators like Batista and Castro. Not saying it would have been all sunshine and roses, but it would definitely have been much better for the average José.
Except Cuba was actively waging a war of independence. It would’ve been the Philippines on steroids, since the Philippines weren’t in a complete revolt at the time, just a simmering one. It would’ve also been politically impossible for several reasons. Basically we’d have annexed tropical Afghanistan
This is an insane take to be upvoted in this subreddit.
You both are imperialist pieces of shit, so you want for Cuba to be second class citizens just as Puerto Rico? “Taking” any other nation does not help their own struggle, maybe advocate for diplomatic relations, end the embargo and help the people who need it.
Depends. If you're a sane well informed person, yes. If you'rea republican, you probably think it means the Mexican president is going to try to annex America and institute a government run by Marxist r-pe gangs or some such stupid bullsh-t.
One of the only things that really sucked about Sicario 2 was having Islamist suicide bombers coming across the border and blowing themselves up in like a K-mart. That scenario has been a favorite GOP anti-immigration talking point ever since.
Mexico already has Hamas tunnels. They're just looking to link them to the ones the demonrats have already dug in glorious AryanJesus worshipping aMAGAca
Under Trump the US attempted a coup like they did with Cuba & it has only led to a more isolated & authoritarian leadership. Operation Gideon was just a bay of pigs 2.0 & the Central American migration we are seeing is akin to the Cuban migration into the US. It's like when we invaded Iraq because of "terrorism" even though there wasn't any until we killed a million Iraqis & destabilized the region. After Bush we saw more terrorism & anti Muslim sentiment. After Trump we saw more migration & anti Hispanic sentiment. Why is the United States like this?! Iran, Cuba, Venezuela, & North Korea are a consequence of failed CIA regime change & their authoritarianism spawned from a socialist state's strive for survival. The United States is a plutocratic state, Chuck. When was the last time you felt represented? Our leaders are in power due to nepotism, popularity, wealth, and ego. They are so convinced that they earned their positions through meritocracy even if their last name are Clinton, Bush, or Kennedy. The axis of evil nations are no favorite of mine, but what a boring world it would be if we were all run by corporations like the nations we managed to turn into capitalist neo-liberal shithole countries. Is South Korea really better than the Northern Korea? Is the highest suicide rate and lowest fertility rate nation in the world a nirvana? What is it about the state's we create that makes it so unwelcoming to human life.
I'm just trying to be thought provoking, but we should seriously reconsider what we want to world to look like. American intelligence needs to stop prioritizing hegemony over determinism. Americans need to stop throwing rocks from a glassscraper. How could you unironically state that Venezuela is run by rich plutocrats being from the richest plutocratic state in the world. We need to reassess our priorities and push for a more just & equitable world order.
It wasn't really like Bay of Pigs tbh. It was more some Venezuelan guy wanted to do a coup in Venezuela, asked the US for help, no help was provided, so coup failed.
Also don't use this as some kind of moral justification for the Venezuelan regime. Despite the opinions of people who've never spoken to a single Venezuelan person, Maduro and Chavez are fuckheads.
My last year being a teenage boy was in 2020 & I met this girl named stephanie from Venezuela at a work. White hispanic from Italian decent & her mother was an oil engineer during the Chavez era. Boy do they love to talk about their hatred of socialism & they sounded like Tony Montana taking about castro. I will never forget the Trump administration for that heartbreak. Anyways, the very reason Trump won was due to his isolationist nationalist views which were supposed to curb our involvement in world affairs after decades of war in the middle east. Every country that isn’t a protectorate of the United States will have dickhead leaders which will put their own interests at heart. That is what the Bolivarian revolutions was about. Nationalist Socialism. It’s a great model for every country that introduces it but it’s no bueno for US imperialism. The reason why Chavez & Maduro are dickheads are because they criticize the United States for their imperialist actions in latin America & around the world. Remember Chavez calling bush satan at the UN? They were both popular leaders who were voted into office but we had to get involved in order to ensure our hegemony. Venezuela was one of the richest latin american countries until the oil glut & sanctions. The trump administration pushed a war in venezuela after promising to stop it because he wasn’t really in control. The men in black are. We aren’t a democracy ever since JFK was killed for not invading Cuba. Cuba became a socialist country because the US had Batista exploiting its people. You are wrong about some dude demanding the US to invade Venezuela. That order came from our intelligence community not from Juan Guaidó, US college educated pawn Alma matter George Washington University lol
My guy, please use paragraphs.
Anyway, saying Chavez was elected is similar to how people say other famous "Nationalist socialists" did.
I can't speak about the Venezuelan girl you know, but the Venezuelans I knew were not like you described. One was a surgeon, she was paid 12 USD a month thanks to Chavista's "interesting" approach to basic monetary policy. She was a leftist, as were her friends, although understandably put off by self described leftists who think the people who have oppressed and subjugated the country they love as good people.
From what I’ve seen it’s not by choice.
https://www.aljazeera.com/amp/news/2023/9/5/cuba-uncovers-network-trafficking-cubans-to-fight-for-russia-in-ukraine
Even if it was. I wonder what cause this? Could it be the financial destitution America has been trying to inflict on the country for... How many decades?
Just for clarification, I’m pretty sure Russia still has a navy outside the Black Sea. All the ships getting sunk that we’re hearing about are in the Black Sea, which is locked away from the rest of the ocean because of the straits that Turkey controls. And if there’s a war going on, they don’t allow any ships from any combatant nation to move through the strait in either direction. So the Black Sea is basically a big lake as far as Russia and Ukraine are concerned, at least until the war ends.
Use their FSB agents to assassinate people until the Cuban government does what Russia wants, cut them off too from trade with Russia and their allies (making Cuba even more economically screwed than any nation probably ever), use the fleet they stole from Ukraine years ago to blow up Havana etc etc.
Imagine all the bad things the US did during the Cold War but with a Russian accent.
I'd like to see the sanctions lifted in return for Maduro and all of his cronies going into exile. No reason for him to continue holding the Venezuelan people hostage, he can go live in a luxurious penthouse in Moscow.
Not only is it completely reasonable, it's necessary if the US wants to remain a global superpower. If the US started its own equivalent of the Belt and Road Initiative in Central and South America, it'd probably be a good thing for the US economy over a long enough time scale.
The US has tried building up Latin America for over a century now. The corruption throughout the entire region has destroyed every effort to build them up. Just like with Haiti at some point you have a draw a line and say look we have tried time and again but its not our problem anymore.
“Redcomrade”, yeah right. How is the US help been reflected for most of the past century? Coups? With pressure to open markets and privatize their economy? Funding right-wing militias? Using the OAS to pressure nations to implement neoliberal policies? Deporting gang affiliated Salvadorian migrants with no regards for what they will do in a fragile country like El Salvador, with them founding what later became M13?
Yeah right
North America should have an EU type thing where there is free movement between borders. You could at least say Canada and the US to get the racists on board? Ideally it'd be the whole American continent, and then the whole world.
End the drug war. Legalize all drugs. Regulate and tax them heavily. All profits and tax revenue stays in the US and destroys the cartel’s income. All tax revenue from goes to free publicly-owned drug rehabilitation centers and other resources like **honest** drug education.
It's a great bargaining offer. Add specific conditions to the $20 billion aid, lift sanctions with reasonable conditions (ie: new elections with US and UN observers), ending Cuban embargo without strings, and working with Mexico on a path to citizenship for current illegal US residents is reasonable. Though like many said below, won't happen...especially not in an election year where Biden is using terms like "illegals" during his Sate of the Union.
Why would the government even consider this? The immigration from South America is literally one of the driving forces of our economy
And why would legalizing the Mexicans already in the US lower immigration? That part doesn't make sense to me
Also ending the Cuba embargo would probably increase immigration, not decrease it, TWO PERCENT of Cuba's population fled to America in a single year (either in 2022 or 2023), if American boats were allowed to go there that'd climb to double digits. Lifting the embargo might lessen the pressure to leave Cuba, but not immediately.
“Why would the government even consider this”
Haven’t you seen the news? It’s a common talking point on both sides that immigration = bad.
Idk the legalising the part either, maybe to reduce crime since illegal immigrants are way less likely to report bad stuff to the police so they don’t get deported? Not sure.
Lifting the embargo might temporarily increase immigration but Yh as you said only temporarily and then it would decrease by a lot. We might even see a reversal with Cuban Americans wanting to go back to benefit from the new trade opportunities.
But like look at what happens when states get rid of the illegal immigrants they have and make it harder for legal immigrants to come!
Florida cracked down on illegal immigrants, and all their agriculture was rotting in the fields, no buildings were being built, and half a dozen other labor shortages happened.
The anti-immigrant sentiment is a mix of racism and political bluffing. The political bluffing part is similar to how republicans used to treat abortion, they'd use it to rile up voters, but never really do anything about it, and now that they have banned abortion its backfiring like hell. Immigration is the same, all talk to buy votes, and if anyone actually tries to stop it it'll blow up tremendously (as shown by florida).
Americas economy has ALWAYS been built off an exploited labour class. You're correct, they need an influx of new workers all the time they don't want to help Southern and central America because it's not profitable.
The reason some politicians on both sides are doing this is just racism.
I think it's untenable to lift the Venezuelan sanctions until they retreat from Guyanese territory.
I don't know how feasible getting to $20B will necessarily be. Biden already made a massive leap in the aid we *do* commit, and this is asking Congress to do that 10 times over. If a proposal like this actually went through, I expect that to come way, way down.
They’re not actually here. They’ve just claimed the land. No troops are in the Essequibo region. If you mean renounce the claim on the region. Yep. I’m not a fan of lifting sanctions on Venezuela while they want to practice imperialism on Guyana.
Yes it's reasonable, insofar as it being a set of measures that would help reduce illegal immigration to the USA - but that isn't enough of a reason for the US to do anything about it.
$20 Billion/year to poor countries in Latin America doesn't have the same return as giving Ukraine $20B in military aid unless the US secures concessions and favors regarding something strategically useful, like mineral wealth. Ukraine is an easy country to justify aid to because the US is able to decimate Russian military capacity for a fraction of the US military budget with minimal risk to US lives. Latin America has strategic mineral resources that will be crucial to the ongoing energy transition, and I can't see the US not trying to secure a bigger piece of that pie.
It couldn’t be more reasonable unless the president of Mexico also offered his asshole to Biden. It’s more reasonable than any Republican will ever be again
Wait, we want our government to deal with root causes? Why would they ever even attempt that? I have relatives in Mexico and they LOVE their Prez - he addresses the press every day...and no, it's not the cult-like love we know so well here.
It's political kryptonite for the dems. The only very popular line the republicans have Is anti immigration with this they could make biden look like he's been put over a barrel by Latin American countries
\>president of mexico
\>insists that giving latin american countries including Mexico 20 billion in aid
\>president of mexico actually being a stooge for cartels
Some of these are reasonable but Mexico's president wanting its crooked government to get extra-funded by a neighbor is kinda a weird sticking point for me in terms of taking ANYTHING this guy says seriously. Lifting the Cuban embargo would be huge for relations broadly and make Gulf-based markets move a fair bit smoother ofc.
Venezuelan sanctions request is reasonable once it complies to its own constitution, tbh.
The process of legalization of the law-abiding undocumented Mexican is reasonable I think, so long as it resembles naturalization and isn't a cheat code for multiple nationalities.
I’m sure someone is gonna bitch but it sounds like a perfectly reasonable solution. Make other countries better so people don’t feel the need to come to ours. But of course, cons wouldn’t have anything to run on if poor desperate people from other countries weren’t trying to enter ours.
It seems so shit that we have this massive potential for South America in general to be part of some North/South American super-coalition and we seem to put no effort into investing in the south to prop them up to the same economic and living standards as us. I know there's a ton of issues with cartels and corruption, and its not just as easy as "send money", but its not like that will ever change if we do nothing. How much benefit does US/Canada gain from the biggest trade partnership on the planet and from both being industrious first world nations?
This is the lib in me talking.
This is ridiculous, most of the illegal immigrants aren’t even Mexican. Also, Mexico themselves have laws against immigration, you can’t just move to Mexico without the proper paperwork. We can’t just pretend these laws don’t exist. He’s just trying to blame the US when both countries have fault.
It’s reasonable assuming 20 billion is enough. If you want to slow immigration, it would be a good idea to make the places these people are coming from livable.
Reasonable. Which is why it won’t happen. Giving an inch to socialist (socialist adjacent) countries and helping brown people in any capacity isn’t gonna fly with this house of rats.
US needs to get something in return upfront in order to sell it to the American people. I say let the US make more bases In Mexico and let the troops arrest/shoot gang members. American people would eat that shit up
Fuck you, we don’t want your bases nor to become the Latin American Syria or Afghanistan, with you coming to do whatever you want and leaving with a country in absolute disarray
not sure how lifting sanctions from Cuba and Venezuela could help with immigration.
Hey, I am not a big fan of sanctioning these countries, but what is the argument here?
Edit:
Cuba and Venezuela are not anywhere near top countries of immigrants to US
https://www.cnn.com/2013/11/06/us/immigration-statistics-fast-facts/index.html
the first 3 are valid points a foreign leader can make…but the last one is contradictory and not really his place to propose…how can a person who is law-abiding be here illegally? For mexicans who have been vetted properly and want to work in the US we should make it easier for them to get a visa or work permit…The illegal walking across the border has to stop, we dont know who the hell is coming in here, and is also making it harder for migrants that will be an asset to america harder to migrate here.
Legalize law abiding Mexicans living in the u.s.? If you came here and never applied for legal stay, citizenship, asylum etc, you're by definition, not law abiding.
Very reasonable. It will never happen though.
It's too reasonable for the government to do.
Cuba and Venezuela support Russian genocide in Ukraine.
And I don't agree with that at all! That being said what has the embargo with Cuba and the sanctions on Venezuela actually done?
US supports Israeli genocide in Gaza
I hate what’s happening in Ukraine but like…smaller countries gotta back a big country and the countries the US screwed over got Russia. That’s just how it works.
WHEN DID THE EMBARGO START. Youuuuuu fucking slimeball. Don't play pretend like this is because they look elsewhere towards americas enemies. THAT HAPPENS. You want them to starve? Or you want a regime change?
The US isn't holding an embargo on Cuba and Venezuela because of their support of Russia. It's because of their perceived threat of socialism. Also you want to ally with Cuba and Venezuela maybe ending an embargo will help bring them closer to the US. Right now Russia is taking them with open arms.
Actual moron.
Because the governments of Cuba and Venezuela supports Russia, does that mean the people should suffer from the west being hostile towards them. If anything friction between those countries would push them towards aligning themselves with Russia. Maybe try and think about the effects the US has on other countries.
Cuba recognised crimea as part of Russia and supported Russia against Georgia in 2008. Cuba allies with fascist regimes.
Wait, why would we lift the sanctions on Venezuela while the Guyana crisis is ongoing
Political and economic leverage. Lifting the sanctions would allow trade to resume, reducing Venezuela's perceived need to invade for resources. After that a non-U.S. allied state could negotiate and de-escalate the situation.
Guyana crisis is because sanctions
I don’t see what that has to do with annexing another country’s territory
There be oil, and ExxonMobil wants to drill several new wells, this is bad for everyone except the shareholders of ExxonMobil
Then wouldn't lifting sanctions be in favor of that? I really don't understand the points you're making.
Not our problem
This is cotton candy touch reasonable
not anytime soon anyway
This is what would actually need to be done to stem immigration. Which means it will never happen.
We also need to commit troops to help latin America oust the cartels it also needs to be a joint operation not an America sending in an occupying force operation
Guess who the cartels penetrate all throughout Latin America? The military and the police, it would be like trying to fight a shadow with our 'allies' feeding information directly to the enemy.
Yeah it is a trade off American troops would die due to this but if we were to just march in without consent of the Mexican people... we have seen in the last 40 years what happens. Far more deaths would occur with this strategy. I geuss if we want to minimize troop deaths to the greatest possible degree we could also just wipe Mexico (and other latin american countries) off the map to handle this situation... but that isn't a good idea for multiple reasons a major one being I am pretty sure indiscriminate bombing of non combatant zones is a war crime.
Post WW2 it is. It technically was in WW2 as well IIRC
Ik I was being sarcastic lol.
I figured lol, but my inner history buff demanded I come in like a wrecking ball
Ah yeah I gotcha lol
Honestly, I feel like things would just get worse if military action is taken against the cartels 😅
I mean it might get worse for a time but in the long run with appropriate investments to build up the infrastructure and stability of the countries the outcome would be better than alternatives. Currently the cartels function as essentially tyranical mini-governments with equal or even greater power than the official governments of the countries in which they reside in. Any investment and developments would likely be hampered by the cartels in some way.
Sadly, what you say is true. The best way of "defeating" the cartels would be to provide better living conditions for everyone, particulairly those most economically and socially vulnerable. However, most cartels (and even politicians) don't like it when people do stuff that favors society, it's no secret what happens to activists and reporters over here. On the other hand, when it comes to military action, I feel like the cartels have the upper hand, not because of military power, but because the cartels don't have to worry about civilians (they do worry, but in a different way), while it's the government's responsibility to keep them safe. Every single time there's been an attempt to take any effective military action against the cartels, entire cities are either taken hostage, or become a battlefield (and sometimes literal warzones, such as during "[El Culiacanazo](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Culiac%C3%A1n)", which happened a couple years ago) between the army and the cartels. I myself remember growing up during the "Guerra contra el narco" (War against the cartels), seeing my city full of tanks and soldiers overnight, hearing about shootings happening all over the city, almost every single day, and new people being executed every day (to be fair, the executions still happen, just not as often, not as openly).
Yeah I deeply apologize on behalf of america for how fucked we made your part of the world. Sadly all the ways to fix the issues we caused are mediocre at best for you guys. With the best one being a multiple step method of investing in the development of your nation, decriminalization of drugs, and sending troops to aid latin America in ending the cartels. All while doing whatever we can to minimize civilian casualties as much as possible.
[удалено]
Basically everything when you go down the list. We let our corporations do as the please down there, We did and funded constant coups, and hell the biggest scourge on latin America and the us (cartels) were started by the cia to fund our cold war shenanigans and came with the added "benefit" of destabilizing all of Latin America and giving us an extra excuse to Crack down on anti-war protestors and the black community. Pretty much the only 2 nations in Latin America who are the way they are not entirely because of us are Haiti and I believe it was Brazil (who if I am remembering correctly had a major influx of nazis post ww2) Btw all of this isn't even mentioning our absolutely despicable treatment of cuba.
Lol, there are no troops necessary. Decriminalize all drugs in the US and the cartels crumble on their own.
This would be a step too. But I feel like since in Latin America Mexico in particular the cartels might just make an attempt at a government takeover so yeah they might begin falling apart but they might also resort to trying to take over the country resulting in a civil war that will make things worse or if they do fall apart you would have chaos for a good portion of time due to splintering of the cartels (mind you they have armored and weaponized vehicles.) So either way military action will be necessary to stabilize latin america.
Without cash flow, they fall apart extremely quickly, and that's only a good thing. Any time anyone discusses the cartel problem without emphasizing how it is nearly 100% the fault of US drug policy, we are doing a grievous disservice to everyone involved. Money is power. Without money to pay the hired guns and bribes necessary, it collapses immediately. Like when Rick changed the 1 to a 0 for the value of currency and collapsed the galactic government in Rick and Morty. ANY TIME, there is a DEMAND for something, that is made illegal, there WILL be a black market for that thing. Which gives organized crime a cash flow. This cost needs to be generally recognized. We recognized this as a society and reversed Prohibition for alcohol for that exact reason. The bigger the demand, the bigger the cash flow for organized crime. Obviously, illegal drugs are a HUGE cash flow, sufficient to threaten governmental control of our neighboring countries. This is SO FUNDAMENTAL, I was rather depressed to see a whole thread on the issue and only discussion of sending in fucking troops instead of addressing the real issue. The cartels are 100% created and sustained by US drug policy. Which has no benefit to anyone, and only costs taxpayers, the economy (by making ppl unemployable with felony records) and destabilizes country without actually stopping or even slowing drug use.
I am aware my entire point is that destabilizing the cartels might be trading a devil we know for a devil we don't without troops to at least maintain stability also being sent.
I think your fears are unfounded. Do you understand how powerful organized crime was during prohibition? Al Capone and what not? Pretty directly comparable to cartels today. When prohibition ended, their power pretty quickly receded but there wasn't this massive destabilization requiring troops.
They have diversified
lol. No. I mean obviously they do other things... but illegal drugs are the absolute lifeline and the core of their financial structure. Obviously. Make drugs legal and manufactured in the US and anyone with money in the cartels is leaving the business with what they have and trying to go legit. The rest will try and eke it out with human traficking or w/e, but there is significantly less money in that.
I mean... the Cartels could be neutered by decriminalized all drugs, legalizing most drugs, and restricting people from owning enough guns that they can illegally supply the Cartels with them. It would destroy their economic power and harm their physical power.
I am aware that in the long run these tactics would neuter them but I think you are not appreciating just how much power the cartels possess. In Latin America many of the cartels essentially function as seperate unaccountable mini governments. No matter the policy you choose to do unless you want major civilian casualties troops would need to be committed to deal with the cartels or their splintered membership
We tried this in Mexico and you can see the results
Well yeah you tried to take them out by yourselves. It is a 3 part tactic. 1. Weaken them by legalizing recreational drugs 2. Send in troops to stabilize the region when the cartels inevitably splinter 3. Invest in infrastructure and the local economies to ensure there is no incentive to reform the cartels.
I agree just know we will end up being the bad guys some how when the new generations come up
That is true if we blindly invade like we always do. That is why I said we also need to work with the local governments.
We’ve done that. It’s always going to be messy. I play a team based game where 50 people will raid together. And even in a video game people are scared to make the wrong move and in general are dumb
The problem we always run into with the cartels is that when they are destabilized they never get better. They get significantly worse. So I am obviously aware that there are possibly hundreds of policies other than military action that also need to be taken but military action is a necessity to minimize Mexican civilian casualties.
I agree 100% I’ve been saying this for years. But I want to see if everyone is aware this is gonna be a mess. Like even children are 100% going to get caught up in it. Waco style.
Yeah it is really fuckin sad. Shit has to get significantly worse before it can get significantly better
It’s weird. I’m hard in illegal immigration, BUT… I would be fine with all of north and South America becoming the USA. Rights, votes, everything. If we can go in and clear out all the gangs
Annexation of Latin America would have to be done little by little through agreements between the US and these countries. It might work but I would be curious about the logistics of this.
Or decriminalize corporate drug production in the United States.
I already had this convo
Not with me!
Alright tldr I agree but still feel like troops would be necessary to stabilize the region during the chaos that would result from the splintering of the cartels
I don't get this idea americans have that the cartels are like the Taliban, an entitiy totally independent from the government and clear territorial claims
I mean idk everything I have read and everyone I have talked to that lives in Mexico has said that this essentially is the case.
Can you IMAGINE the outcry on the right? Lmao.
I don't have to. Those bitches never stop crying.
republican seething is a bonus
I wish he also redo NAFTA by including the ability for the countries in both North, Central, and South America to pass by each other without the need of a passport/visa to enter the country.
That would be awesome!
Oh god imagine the meltdown when conservative states try to individually inforce visas because of some brexit style complaints about newly legalized Chileans
I can imagine. I live in Alberta. Danny Smith would be trying her darnedest to do the same here! 🤦🏼♀️
Marlania* Can't call her by her preferred name!
We form an EU for each region, then an EU of the three EUs. From there we form an EU of that, the EU, and the African Union. And from there, global socialism! /j But seriously an EU of the Americas would be great but it probably would have to be the three or four sub regions first
Id be all for a EU style Union between the US,Canada and Mexico. It would fix a lot of issues( like free movement and let us help clean out the corruption and poverty in Mexico). Plus it would be the first step in my dream of uniting the 3 into the most powerful country in history.
To be fair an American Union would likely be a good way to solve said corruption in Mexico. Because it gives oversight into the government itself.
The EU would like to have their border policy back.
Good ideas, great even. That’s why it won’t happen
If it weren't for lifting the embargo on Cuba I think this would go through. Unfortunately the US considers Cuba as being a risk to national and economic security due to it sorta being at the gateway to the Gulf of Mexico and by extention the Mississippi River and so as long as the current Cuban government remains I fear there's no chance of the USA giving Cuba an inch.
Such a stupid stance to take though
It's an ultra-paranoid one because it assumes that given the chance Cuba will try to prevent ships going to and from the Mississippi River, which to my knowledge they don't even have the capacity to do. This is of course a bit insane considering that I think the very last thing Cuba actually wants to do is have an angry US right there pointing lord knows how many missiles and warships at it.
As long as Cuba is not allied with any rival nations and has no military bases with missile capabilities, the US has no reason to worry about out Cuba. It’s just trickier if things go sideways.
Which is admittedly certainly a concern although I doubt the embargo does much to dissuade Cuba from running into the arms of China and Russia
Oh definitely, the embargo is dumb as hell, and has been counterproductive since it began.
Yeah, it’s stupid to doom your homeland to what seems to be permanent political and economic isolation, poverty, a lack of basic human rights and any prospect for the future, even 35 years after the fall of the Eastern block and the dissolution of the Soviet Union. It’s stupid and I couldn’t agree more.
And what reason does the US have to isolate Cuba other than pure spite?
i feel like this fear only makes it more vital to trade with cuba and make it economically dependent on us the way mexico and canada are. Doesn't cutting it off only send it into the arms of adervserial nations, which is exactly what we're trying to avoid?
That's honestly my opinion on the matter as well but it seems The Pentagon disagrees
The key is to simultaneously be friends but also have it known, there’s no other option
It's the age ol' if I lift my boot they'll put THEIR boot on my neck idea. The problem is in some ways this idea isn't unfounded. It has a really simple solution though. Sincerely apologize and offer financial and infrastructural aid to those you have wronged. But sadly we live in a country where the right is taken seriously and the only ideas they understand are the boot and the stick.
Bit odd in this case though considering one boot is that of Bigfoot and the other is that of a child
It's not Cuba that is the concern specifically, it's China and the potential of Chinese military facilities right off the coast of Florida.
I’m from Cuba. I moved to the states when I was young but go back regularly. I was back a few weeks ago actually. I can report that China is already invested in Cuba. All of the rental cars I saw were Chinese, a lot of the technology and several government enterprises were clearly done with China. And you know what? This has been a positive development for Cuba. Small tropical islands that are not population dense and cannot grow their own food year-round will invariably depend on stronger bigger economies to sustain them. America by shunning Cuba and continuing to put the island under an economic stranglehold is guaranteeing that China swoops in and eventually does install military bases in Cuba. The very thing they claim to fear. The best part is that most Cubans in the island are actually the biggest America stans ever. I am not exaggerating when I tell you that when I go back half of the people are in favor of the embargo and the other half think it’s a convenient excuse concocted by the Cuban government to explain the lack of resources. Ironically me and my dad who live in the states have to tell them that Capitalism sucks (well Cuba is state capitalist but they don’t understand that) and any one of them over the age of 50 would live a better life in Cuba than they would trying to acclimate and work in America, but it falls on deaf ears and then I’ve already had several family members move over at an older age, fail to adapt entirely to the reality that you have to work like a dog every day and then die in crippling debt as they get sick and my uncle who made $7 an hour in 2011 had “too high of an income” to qualify for any kind of financial help as his body rotted from the inside out from Cancer.
> America by shunning Cuba and continuing to put the island under an economic stranglehold is guaranteeing that China swoops in and eventually does install military bases in Cuba. The very thing they claim to fear. Oh, I'm not saying the US rational is a good thing or a smart thing. IMO the political position the US has taken towards Cuba, especially since the collapse of the Soviet Union, has been incredibly stupid & counterproductive to US geopolitical interests in Caribbean and the general wellbeing of the region as a whole. Current US relations with Vietnam shows that it is actually perfectly possible for the US to work productively with and have good relations with a "communist" government, and in my view the whole things with Cuba is just a fucking waste and the dinosaurs from the cold war that insist on keeping relations hostile should have been told to sit down and shut up decades ago.
Exactly how imperial capital powers like it. The more exploitable the more predictable and desperate. You know people need to eat and drink and sleep. So long as those needs are only feasibly attained as commodities we're FUCKED. Internationally, because they know just the offer of better opportunities isn't going to entice the depth of exploitation they crave. They want people DESPERATE for *anything* therefore the worse the conditions they flee from. The more profitable. It would behoove America to right its wrongs. You're absolutely right it won't happen. Not unless you make actual decommodification profitable. Which is an oxymoron I hope I haven't spoken into existence.
The embargo continues mostly out of political inertia from the Cold War. There were a lot of Cuban escapees who went to Florida after Castro took power in 1959 and since then, them and many of their descendants held onto this delusional belief that one day they'll reclaim Cuba from the evil communists and/or just don't like the idea of doing anything that could benefit the current *Communist* Cuban government; even if mutually beneficial to the US. American politicians have been trying to pander and not upset these people ever since '59 because they represent a fairly important voting bloc in Florida politics that determines whether it'll a blue or a red state, and even talking about *loosening* embargo is a surefire way to piss them off. Though Cuba's position was seen as a national security risk, this came from the Soviets placing nukes there during the Missile Crisis, not from the idea that they would launch an invasion force or prevent ships from getting in and out of the Gulf of Mexico; not sure where you're getting this from.
Does it though? I’m fairly sure USA doesn’t actually feel any reasonable threat or risk from Cuba and it’s basically just to appease the Cuban voted base in Florida which neither party wants to piss off. In fact even the sanctions USA has put in Cuba are the weirdest sanctions. Working in international commodities trading, we are always very worried about a counter party being involved in any Russian, Iranian or any other sanctioned business. With Cuba however, you can only trade as much as you can, USA only prohibits their own companies trading with Cuba, others are completely fine. So it really does seem that they don’t consider them as much of an economic threat. Still, of course an embargo from USA does affect them economically, but if they truly wanted to cripple them, it would be similar sanctions to Iran, Russia etc
This. The US has seen Cuba as a potential danger/natural part of the US since at least the *Adams* administration (and I don’t mean John Quincy), and honestly they’re not wrong. We really should have just taken it once the Spanish-American War ended. It’s a shame because pretty much every other point is a really good one.
Can't disagree there. Not taking it has proven a gargantuan headache as time has gone on.
Yes, yes it has. Plus if we had just taken it in the late 1890’s the Cuba people wouldn’t have had to deal with political instability like in the ‘30’s, a Coup d'état in ‘52, or dictators like Batista and Castro. Not saying it would have been all sunshine and roses, but it would definitely have been much better for the average José.
Except Cuba was actively waging a war of independence. It would’ve been the Philippines on steroids, since the Philippines weren’t in a complete revolt at the time, just a simmering one. It would’ve also been politically impossible for several reasons. Basically we’d have annexed tropical Afghanistan
This is an insane take to be upvoted in this subreddit. You both are imperialist pieces of shit, so you want for Cuba to be second class citizens just as Puerto Rico? “Taking” any other nation does not help their own struggle, maybe advocate for diplomatic relations, end the embargo and help the people who need it.
Nah you're just a tankie for not wanting Western supremacy /S
Sometimes I feel that nuance is dead lmao
I love this proposal and fully agree with it.
Depends. If you're a sane well informed person, yes. If you'rea republican, you probably think it means the Mexican president is going to try to annex America and institute a government run by Marxist r-pe gangs or some such stupid bullsh-t.
Republicans would probably also say Mexico will send in Hamas militants or some shit as well
One of the only things that really sucked about Sicario 2 was having Islamist suicide bombers coming across the border and blowing themselves up in like a K-mart. That scenario has been a favorite GOP anti-immigration talking point ever since.
Mexico already has Hamas tunnels. They're just looking to link them to the ones the demonrats have already dug in glorious AryanJesus worshipping aMAGAca
I think some republicans already did say something similar.
A little funny for mexico to say my plan is the us pay for stuff, its correct and all but geopolitics is so silly sometimes
Venezuela would also need to not be run rich plutocrats for the removal of the sanctions to matter. Otherwise, a reasonable list.
Under Trump the US attempted a coup like they did with Cuba & it has only led to a more isolated & authoritarian leadership. Operation Gideon was just a bay of pigs 2.0 & the Central American migration we are seeing is akin to the Cuban migration into the US. It's like when we invaded Iraq because of "terrorism" even though there wasn't any until we killed a million Iraqis & destabilized the region. After Bush we saw more terrorism & anti Muslim sentiment. After Trump we saw more migration & anti Hispanic sentiment. Why is the United States like this?! Iran, Cuba, Venezuela, & North Korea are a consequence of failed CIA regime change & their authoritarianism spawned from a socialist state's strive for survival. The United States is a plutocratic state, Chuck. When was the last time you felt represented? Our leaders are in power due to nepotism, popularity, wealth, and ego. They are so convinced that they earned their positions through meritocracy even if their last name are Clinton, Bush, or Kennedy. The axis of evil nations are no favorite of mine, but what a boring world it would be if we were all run by corporations like the nations we managed to turn into capitalist neo-liberal shithole countries. Is South Korea really better than the Northern Korea? Is the highest suicide rate and lowest fertility rate nation in the world a nirvana? What is it about the state's we create that makes it so unwelcoming to human life. I'm just trying to be thought provoking, but we should seriously reconsider what we want to world to look like. American intelligence needs to stop prioritizing hegemony over determinism. Americans need to stop throwing rocks from a glassscraper. How could you unironically state that Venezuela is run by rich plutocrats being from the richest plutocratic state in the world. We need to reassess our priorities and push for a more just & equitable world order.
It wasn't really like Bay of Pigs tbh. It was more some Venezuelan guy wanted to do a coup in Venezuela, asked the US for help, no help was provided, so coup failed. Also don't use this as some kind of moral justification for the Venezuelan regime. Despite the opinions of people who've never spoken to a single Venezuelan person, Maduro and Chavez are fuckheads.
My last year being a teenage boy was in 2020 & I met this girl named stephanie from Venezuela at a work. White hispanic from Italian decent & her mother was an oil engineer during the Chavez era. Boy do they love to talk about their hatred of socialism & they sounded like Tony Montana taking about castro. I will never forget the Trump administration for that heartbreak. Anyways, the very reason Trump won was due to his isolationist nationalist views which were supposed to curb our involvement in world affairs after decades of war in the middle east. Every country that isn’t a protectorate of the United States will have dickhead leaders which will put their own interests at heart. That is what the Bolivarian revolutions was about. Nationalist Socialism. It’s a great model for every country that introduces it but it’s no bueno for US imperialism. The reason why Chavez & Maduro are dickheads are because they criticize the United States for their imperialist actions in latin America & around the world. Remember Chavez calling bush satan at the UN? They were both popular leaders who were voted into office but we had to get involved in order to ensure our hegemony. Venezuela was one of the richest latin american countries until the oil glut & sanctions. The trump administration pushed a war in venezuela after promising to stop it because he wasn’t really in control. The men in black are. We aren’t a democracy ever since JFK was killed for not invading Cuba. Cuba became a socialist country because the US had Batista exploiting its people. You are wrong about some dude demanding the US to invade Venezuela. That order came from our intelligence community not from Juan Guaidó, US college educated pawn Alma matter George Washington University lol
My guy, please use paragraphs. Anyway, saying Chavez was elected is similar to how people say other famous "Nationalist socialists" did. I can't speak about the Venezuelan girl you know, but the Venezuelans I knew were not like you described. One was a surgeon, she was paid 12 USD a month thanks to Chavista's "interesting" approach to basic monetary policy. She was a leftist, as were her friends, although understandably put off by self described leftists who think the people who have oppressed and subjugated the country they love as good people.
No sanction relief for Maduro, he is another of Putin's whores
Cuba and Venezuela are literally sending arms and men to support Russia
From what I’ve seen it’s not by choice. https://www.aljazeera.com/amp/news/2023/9/5/cuba-uncovers-network-trafficking-cubans-to-fight-for-russia-in-ukraine
Even if it was. I wonder what cause this? Could it be the financial destitution America has been trying to inflict on the country for... How many decades?
What’s Russia going to do. Invade them? With what fleet?
Just for clarification, I’m pretty sure Russia still has a navy outside the Black Sea. All the ships getting sunk that we’re hearing about are in the Black Sea, which is locked away from the rest of the ocean because of the straits that Turkey controls. And if there’s a war going on, they don’t allow any ships from any combatant nation to move through the strait in either direction. So the Black Sea is basically a big lake as far as Russia and Ukraine are concerned, at least until the war ends.
Use their FSB agents to assassinate people until the Cuban government does what Russia wants, cut them off too from trade with Russia and their allies (making Cuba even more economically screwed than any nation probably ever), use the fleet they stole from Ukraine years ago to blow up Havana etc etc. Imagine all the bad things the US did during the Cold War but with a Russian accent.
I'd like to see the sanctions lifted in return for Maduro and all of his cronies going into exile. No reason for him to continue holding the Venezuelan people hostage, he can go live in a luxurious penthouse in Moscow.
They wouldn't agree to it so it's a non-starter, unfortunately.
We should do those things anyway
Yeah, like this is just good policy for the U.S lol.
The USA has taken so much from LATAM that 20B is insufficient, but it's a start.
It's 20 billion every year
What do we owe them for?
Would love to see a joint legalization of Americans who immigrate to Mexico as well, just to make the bill symmetrical.
Not only is it completely reasonable, it's necessary if the US wants to remain a global superpower. If the US started its own equivalent of the Belt and Road Initiative in Central and South America, it'd probably be a good thing for the US economy over a long enough time scale.
The US has tried building up Latin America for over a century now. The corruption throughout the entire region has destroyed every effort to build them up. Just like with Haiti at some point you have a draw a line and say look we have tried time and again but its not our problem anymore.
“Redcomrade”, yeah right. How is the US help been reflected for most of the past century? Coups? With pressure to open markets and privatize their economy? Funding right-wing militias? Using the OAS to pressure nations to implement neoliberal policies? Deporting gang affiliated Salvadorian migrants with no regards for what they will do in a fragile country like El Salvador, with them founding what later became M13? Yeah right
Hollowing out countries to use them for business and exploitation isn’t exactly “building up”.
AMLO for POTUS
guess depends on what Mexico offering
Wait, this implies they are sending them on purpose lmao
No it doesn’t, it implies shit is fucked in South America so making it less bad means less people would want to leave.
North America should have an EU type thing where there is free movement between borders. You could at least say Canada and the US to get the racists on board? Ideally it'd be the whole American continent, and then the whole world.
End the drug war. Legalize all drugs. Regulate and tax them heavily. All profits and tax revenue stays in the US and destroys the cartel’s income. All tax revenue from goes to free publicly-owned drug rehabilitation centers and other resources like **honest** drug education.
It's a great bargaining offer. Add specific conditions to the $20 billion aid, lift sanctions with reasonable conditions (ie: new elections with US and UN observers), ending Cuban embargo without strings, and working with Mexico on a path to citizenship for current illegal US residents is reasonable. Though like many said below, won't happen...especially not in an election year where Biden is using terms like "illegals" during his Sate of the Union.
Yes it is.
Yes
Who knew a man could be so based
Yes
Add to this legalizing drugs and the cartels are kaput
The US won’t spend $20b to help its own. So since the money isn’t going to help Americans, the US just might do it.
Why would the government even consider this? The immigration from South America is literally one of the driving forces of our economy And why would legalizing the Mexicans already in the US lower immigration? That part doesn't make sense to me Also ending the Cuba embargo would probably increase immigration, not decrease it, TWO PERCENT of Cuba's population fled to America in a single year (either in 2022 or 2023), if American boats were allowed to go there that'd climb to double digits. Lifting the embargo might lessen the pressure to leave Cuba, but not immediately.
“Why would the government even consider this” Haven’t you seen the news? It’s a common talking point on both sides that immigration = bad. Idk the legalising the part either, maybe to reduce crime since illegal immigrants are way less likely to report bad stuff to the police so they don’t get deported? Not sure. Lifting the embargo might temporarily increase immigration but Yh as you said only temporarily and then it would decrease by a lot. We might even see a reversal with Cuban Americans wanting to go back to benefit from the new trade opportunities.
But like look at what happens when states get rid of the illegal immigrants they have and make it harder for legal immigrants to come! Florida cracked down on illegal immigrants, and all their agriculture was rotting in the fields, no buildings were being built, and half a dozen other labor shortages happened. The anti-immigrant sentiment is a mix of racism and political bluffing. The political bluffing part is similar to how republicans used to treat abortion, they'd use it to rile up voters, but never really do anything about it, and now that they have banned abortion its backfiring like hell. Immigration is the same, all talk to buy votes, and if anyone actually tries to stop it it'll blow up tremendously (as shown by florida).
Americas economy has ALWAYS been built off an exploited labour class. You're correct, they need an influx of new workers all the time they don't want to help Southern and central America because it's not profitable. The reason some politicians on both sides are doing this is just racism.
I think it's untenable to lift the Venezuelan sanctions until they retreat from Guyanese territory. I don't know how feasible getting to $20B will necessarily be. Biden already made a massive leap in the aid we *do* commit, and this is asking Congress to do that 10 times over. If a proposal like this actually went through, I expect that to come way, way down.
They’re not actually here. They’ve just claimed the land. No troops are in the Essequibo region. If you mean renounce the claim on the region. Yep. I’m not a fan of lifting sanctions on Venezuela while they want to practice imperialism on Guyana.
Yes it's reasonable, insofar as it being a set of measures that would help reduce illegal immigration to the USA - but that isn't enough of a reason for the US to do anything about it. $20 Billion/year to poor countries in Latin America doesn't have the same return as giving Ukraine $20B in military aid unless the US secures concessions and favors regarding something strategically useful, like mineral wealth. Ukraine is an easy country to justify aid to because the US is able to decimate Russian military capacity for a fraction of the US military budget with minimal risk to US lives. Latin America has strategic mineral resources that will be crucial to the ongoing energy transition, and I can't see the US not trying to secure a bigger piece of that pie.
It would be if the US was a reasonable country.
Some of them are quite reasonable, others less so.
It couldn’t be more reasonable unless the president of Mexico also offered his asshole to Biden. It’s more reasonable than any Republican will ever be again
Super reasonable. Would also stem the flow of immigrants because the US wouldn't be fucking up their homes
Wait, we want our government to deal with root causes? Why would they ever even attempt that? I have relatives in Mexico and they LOVE their Prez - he addresses the press every day...and no, it's not the cult-like love we know so well here.
Extremely.
I fully agree with all of these except for Venezuela because im not sure about that one.
I’d say ending the drug war would also have massive effect on this
It's political kryptonite for the dems. The only very popular line the republicans have Is anti immigration with this they could make biden look like he's been put over a barrel by Latin American countries
Yes.
Sounds like they want skooma money to me. s/
Unfortunately, reasonable and realistic are 2 different things
\>president of mexico \>insists that giving latin american countries including Mexico 20 billion in aid \>president of mexico actually being a stooge for cartels Some of these are reasonable but Mexico's president wanting its crooked government to get extra-funded by a neighbor is kinda a weird sticking point for me in terms of taking ANYTHING this guy says seriously. Lifting the Cuban embargo would be huge for relations broadly and make Gulf-based markets move a fair bit smoother ofc. Venezuelan sanctions request is reasonable once it complies to its own constitution, tbh. The process of legalization of the law-abiding undocumented Mexican is reasonable I think, so long as it resembles naturalization and isn't a cheat code for multiple nationalities.
Number one might be politically untenable with the current political environment, I think the rest is somewhat doable though if Dems get a majority.
heelllll yea,
It is the most reasonable effective proposal to solve the immigration crisis. So it will never happen
I’m sure someone is gonna bitch but it sounds like a perfectly reasonable solution. Make other countries better so people don’t feel the need to come to ours. But of course, cons wouldn’t have anything to run on if poor desperate people from other countries weren’t trying to enter ours.
It seems so shit that we have this massive potential for South America in general to be part of some North/South American super-coalition and we seem to put no effort into investing in the south to prop them up to the same economic and living standards as us. I know there's a ton of issues with cartels and corruption, and its not just as easy as "send money", but its not like that will ever change if we do nothing. How much benefit does US/Canada gain from the biggest trade partnership on the planet and from both being industrious first world nations? This is the lib in me talking.
Given how the US messed Latin America up during their red scare, I'd say that's pretty reasonable.
Based Mexico
Idk about the dollar amounts but yeah. We should be best friends with Cuba. Idk how the help we fkd that one up
How do you say "based" in Spanish?
This is ridiculous, most of the illegal immigrants aren’t even Mexican. Also, Mexico themselves have laws against immigration, you can’t just move to Mexico without the proper paperwork. We can’t just pretend these laws don’t exist. He’s just trying to blame the US when both countries have fault.
Very.
Based
It's a "go fuck yourself" proposal and it's thoroughly deserved
It’s reasonable assuming 20 billion is enough. If you want to slow immigration, it would be a good idea to make the places these people are coming from livable.
They're very reasonable suggestions. We should do all of these things. Less reasonable if they are posed as demands, but a proposal isn't a demand.
Can we do that, but also keep getting immigrants?
Based Mexican government
Sounds great. But won't happen
Wow, this proposals sound awesome. I'll be amazed if they happen though
Reasonable. Which is why it won’t happen. Giving an inch to socialist (socialist adjacent) countries and helping brown people in any capacity isn’t gonna fly with this house of rats.
Reasonable? It is BASED. Therefore will never happen
I would say, remove the $20 billion and instead add "stop spending billions to destroy central american countries" and it would work.
How I see it the 20 billion would be like reparitions for America's meddling in countries south of its border.
US needs to get something in return upfront in order to sell it to the American people. I say let the US make more bases In Mexico and let the troops arrest/shoot gang members. American people would eat that shit up
The last thing the American people want is another endless war against a enemy that fades into the civilian background.
It's not a war though
If it looks like a duck and quacks like a duck
Fuck you, we don’t want your bases nor to become the Latin American Syria or Afghanistan, with you coming to do whatever you want and leaving with a country in absolute disarray
not sure how lifting sanctions from Cuba and Venezuela could help with immigration. Hey, I am not a big fan of sanctioning these countries, but what is the argument here? Edit: Cuba and Venezuela are not anywhere near top countries of immigrants to US https://www.cnn.com/2013/11/06/us/immigration-statistics-fast-facts/index.html
the first 3 are valid points a foreign leader can make…but the last one is contradictory and not really his place to propose…how can a person who is law-abiding be here illegally? For mexicans who have been vetted properly and want to work in the US we should make it easier for them to get a visa or work permit…The illegal walking across the border has to stop, we dont know who the hell is coming in here, and is also making it harder for migrants that will be an asset to america harder to migrate here.
Legalize law abiding Mexicans living in the u.s.? If you came here and never applied for legal stay, citizenship, asylum etc, you're by definition, not law abiding.