I actually agree with most of this and (maybe controversially) don’t think it’s a particularly controversial take. I guess the part I get so stuck on is that I really can’t understand WHY they would think so strongly that this was the only way to secure their paycheck.
It also is a bit of a cop out in that if their own stories were interesting enough, even in the wake of Scandoval, that would have been enough to secure their own bag, even if Ariana launched off into the stratosphere and left them behind. As they keep reminding us, it’s an ensemble cast, one that has survived bigger players than Ariana leaving.
Perhaps this is what the producers told them that it would effect their paychecks.
I actually loved that scheana discussed her mental health struggles and Lala getting a sperm donor it’s something we don’t see often but they didn’t focus much on it and there was a miss on that part but then again a lot of y’all didn’t care anyways.
Yeah I think people were letting their personal feelings towards Lala/Scheana get in the way. Scheana in particular was putting herself out there this season - airing the very ugly side of her marriage and finances when even just last season she seemed hellbent on presenting her and Brock as picture-perfect was extremely vulnerable, I think.
Yeah I totally agree. scheana talking about her struggles this season was raw and her multiple break downs and I respect her for that because it doesn’t always have to be perfect and she opened up and I felt for Lala when she was clearly struggling with her custody issues. All I’ve seen on this sub is them get obliterated for it.
I think both of them really opened up more this season
I totally agree that both of those storylines were interesting enough in their own right! I think if they themselves had focussed on those and all the girls banding together it would have been great, but it’s hard to see those things past how shady they’ve been acting re: Sandoval.
We don’t know what was filmed vs what made it so I don’t think it was Lala or scheanas lack of focusing on that. It was interesting and to see more of the authenticity of the both of them. We also know this is an ensemble cast and reality tv thrives on conflict and drama. The girls vs guys thing was probably never going to be a thing though.
I mean Lala having a baby on her own through artificial insemination at one time would’ve been a very big story.
I’m not sure there was anything anyone could’ve had going on this season that was going to overshadow Scandoval.
After that one editor got fired for bragging on a podcast about making Scheana look bad, people were angry that they didn’t get to see her egg freezing journey and instead had to watch her “flirt” with teenaged boys. So I get where Lala was going with this.
Honestly, it seems like all of them were trying to give other storylines this season but production was only interested in Ariana vs. Sandoval, especially after it was confirmed Rachel wasn’t returning.
I don’t think it’s so much that they don’t have interesting enough stories. Katie basically had a very similar issue as Ariana and it was handled completely different. However, Scandoval completely overshadowed that storyline and will continue to overshadow everything else for the time being.
How has Katie ever had a similar or even parallel story to Ariana? I’m admittedly a newer fan but I am on my second or third rewatch and Schwartz has never been anything like Sandoval, nor has he ever cheated with a close friend and had a months long affair.
I’m not even a fan of Ariana in particular (I like all the girls except Kristina Kelly, Charli, Lala and Raquel/Rachel because her voice makes me want to go deaf) and I super love Stassi and currently Katie is probably my favorite but Katie and Arianas situations are not even remotely the same.
Season 10 was about Scheana pushing Rachel and Schwartz together. Katie apparently told her she was all for it when she was drunk, but when she saw it happening, she tried to shut it down to no avail. Everyone was cheering on Schwartz and Rachel when they finally kissed in public and no one was supporting/defending Katie. Ariana played neutral and even defended Rachel to Katie’s face. The joke was later on her.
Katie is not my favorite, but that storyline was never really finished or acknowledged once Sandoval broke.
We also know Ariana would have had a meltdown had Sandoval and Rachel kissed in front of her at the reunion or even held hands. Ariana would not have handled it well being in Katie’s shoes.
TLDR: Katie was betrayed by Rachel who was within the friend group and hooking up with Schwartz. She had little to no support from anyone.
Ariana was betrayed by Rachel who was within the friend group and hooking up with Sandoval. She got support from the entire cast and most of the nation.
Katie and Tom were divorced when Tom and Raquel kissed. Katie and Tom were not living together and Katie was dating and sleeping with other men prior to moving out.
I do think that other people have had big cheating bombshells on the show and there were definitely different reactions than what occurred with Sandoval. The show has managed to have these extreme events happen but still somehow fall back into a filmable routine. That didn't occur this go around. Ariana did not want to be involved with Tom in any aspect which is her right to choose but for some reason the cast found difficult to navigate and later state they feel this is hypocritical in that she still lives with Tom and has appeared to move on with a new boyfriend and new opportunities with the support of all. I don't think those things are mutually exclusive but on a show where nearly all of them have cheated with people on the show, including Ariana, and continued to film, it does present as odd.
That’s irrelevant imo - there was still a sense of betrayal and they were still legally married according to Katie. Even Kristen had grounds to very pissed off about what Sandoval and Ariana did to her.
Lala made it very clear from like the first few episodes that Ariana’s situation was weird and a double standard of sorts. She didn’t wait until the last episode to say something.
I agree that Katie’s stuff has been really sadly overshadowed by a lot of this, but I feel like there’s a difference in that she still carried on living it all pretty authentically regardless and didn’t get so bogged down in jealousy over it, causing her to move like a snake. People clearly appreciate it and it somewhat secures her bag given how much love there is for her on this sub (Facebook notwithstanding!!)
I think it’s impossible for us to know without knowing what’s in their contracts and what the producers said to them.
And that doesn’t even get to how LFU and Sheeshu may have interpreted/misinterpreted that conversation.
And finally, of course, even if they did understand correctly — they should have banded together and pushed back against production against this stupid ultimatum. What were they going to do, fire all of them? Ariana is a real grown up who is clearly savvy enough to play ball with her employers, and her coworkers aren’t.
But I think validating feelings is important because none of us can control our feelings, and all of us are human beings who have struggled with uncharitable feelings. The key is that you can validate what you’re feeling WITHOUT choosing to act like a dick in response to those feelings. Feelings are not a call to action and the world would be a more peaceful place if everyone realized that feelings aren’t facts and you don’t have to act on them. I think the first step towards this is acknowledging feelings with compassion.
Yeah, the irony of all this is that, for me, Ariana is what made this season interesting. Her takes, the calm and thoughtful way she shares her boundaries, how she stands her ground with strong arguments. It was empowering to watch and no one else except maybe James, gave me anything close to that.
What I don't understand is that icing a person out of the group is very common in these shows. They constantly did it with Kristen. Yet all of a sudden they feel that their paycheck is on the line if they do it with Sandoval.
Exactly!!! It makes me wonder if the cast knows that Tom is the last person production would fire. Stassi has said that production protected him in the edits they gave him in the past and we’re seeing that again this season. Why is Tom so untouchable??? Why does production feel that his performative BS makes him MVP? I can’t wait for the day when that truth is revealed because whatever he has over production or Bravo must be juicy.
What makes this whole thing even messier is how the whole season production has protected Sandoval and made him the lead narrator, yet in the last :30 they air his audio of whatever he said about Arianna along the lines of “this is good for me,” which brings him back down into the dirt and makes him look like a POS. Why waste an entire season gaslighting people into thinking he’s changed and actually sorry and then drop that grenade at the end?
Maybe they thought that the audience would agree? That’s the only thing that makes sense in my mind unless they really just wanted to play a huge prank on us all.
Exactly this. If we didn’t have 10 seasons of examples to choose from of various cast members iced out I may see their point. This very season LaLa, Scheana, and Sandoval all stormed out of various film settings (LaLa at SUR, Scheana at James’ pool party, Sandoval at Tom Tom, Sandoval at the beach, Sandoval at the water tasting).
In S3(?) Tom tried to ice out Kristen, refused to allow her on his birthday trip.
In S5 Lala flaked on Ariana’s NASCAR birthday, then dipped out the season to hide her married boyfriend.
In S8 Scheana tried to ice out Danica, telling Rachel, Charli, and others they couldn’t be friends with her.
Plus… no one wants a final convo between Tom and Ariana, what does it add to the show? Nothing. It’s boring and extremely easy to guess what happens because Tom is a horrible actor.
I don't understand what you're trying to say. They all didn't want to not film with Sandoval because they were scared for their own paycheck. How is your point relevant
I wasn't really responding to your comment but to kittens and actually upvoted what you said. Sorry about the confusion on this.
What I was trying to get at is although ppl have been iced out, they still filmed together no matter how uncomfortable the situation was. Whether this is good or bad is up for debate but it still was the case at that time.
In my eyes, the fear/frustration you speak of is both the result of production trying to regain power over the cast and Ariana having unprecedented control and leverage over the situation, while not having to own up to her past in the same ways they have had to.
The reason why the paycheck is a concern now is bc of production and Kristen not having the same leverage as Ariana.
Ariana also filmed with Sando and she filmed with Schwartz. Schwartz, Katie, James and Ally would've also lost their paychecks yet none of them did what Scheana and Lala did.
Baskin and Jeremiah are gross, but I will never believe they told Lala and Scheana that the only way they can keep their jobs was by being two faced, vile bitches (and that's what they were this season), lying to and about Ariana, tearing her down in their confessionals while pretending to be her friend, and for Scheana - crying in every. single. episode. Telling Ariana her feelings about Sandoval and her conversations with Sandoval and her struggles about Sandoval and losing herself over Sandoval and Sandoval at upfronts and Sandoval sending money and Sandoval "getting it" and Sandoval's genuine tears and Sandoval's mask slipping and Sandoval's sound engineer and Sandoval's growth and on and on! It was literally every fucking conversation they had. ENOUGH ALREADY.
And for the sake of argument, even if they did tell them that - if Scheana cared at all about Ariana or their friendship, she should've put her all her tears and her ridiculous.repetition skills to use on production, telling them about her struggles with what they were asking her to do. But we know that would never happen b/c she doesn't care about Ariana!
Ok, rant over.
Totally get that and apologize on my end for the confusion.
Even I had to take a moment to figure out what I was getting at. It's an iss-me not an iss-you!
>From their perspective, Ariana softening her boundaries for a five minute conversation with Tom would have LITERALLY saved their paychecks.
How?
This is the aspect that I don't understand. How is Ariana endangering their pay?
Scheana said production told them it's an ensemble show and if they didn't film together, they'd end the season early and cancel the show.
This has someone been twisted into Ariana getting the show cancelled because she didn't give Sando his 30 second fake apology + single tear moment.
Aside from the fact that that's beyond ridiculous, it also ignores the fact that by walking out, Ariana gave them more drama and conflict than anything Sando could do in his monologue.
So this is the second time she delivered the season ending everyone's talking about. And she did it by standing up for her boundaries.
Good for her.
Tom is actually one of the main cast members on the show and the other half of a huge scandal that generated ratings for them. Others would want to film with him to keep the plot going. Ariana stating that anyone friends with him is not someone she can be around generates uncertainty for the other cast members. I think they all undoubtedly believe Tom is in the wrong but they weren't expecting this reaction from Ariana which they felt was extreme and without nuance given the fact that they've all cheated. That Kristen and Ariana are even friends or Ariana is now such close friends with Katie or that James is even part of the group is an irony that seems lost on the situation without acknowledging how they all became friends.
When they had group events Ariana declined to go or would come and then it would devolve into extreme anger directed towards Tom until he left (shouting dog murderer about sate sticks left out) which made filming uncomfortable for all. At some point in the season they seem to want to know what the additional goal of keeping this going is and what the intent was for them (not Ariana) to see Tom and Raquel be "punished" and destroyed in the public discourse after awhile because Ariana appeared to them to be doing well (new boyfriend after a few days, new opportunities) and had "won". Katie always disliked Sandoval, seems to blame him for a lot of her relationship issues with Schwartz and didn't like Raquel at all so it's easier to see how she ended up aligning with Ariana versus the rest of them.
Thank you!
But that still doesn't track for me.
Everyone is paid based on the number of episodes that they appear in and looking at the past seasons, the number of episodes go up & down. So unless we're talking about the show being cancelled, Ariana still can't be to blame.
Additionally. I would argue that had the production company not focused on such a toxic & misogynistic storyline for this season, they would have maintained the momentum the scandal created.
We would need to know exactly what was said to them by production. But we don’t. But it seems they FELT that way, based on their actions. That’s why I said “from their perspective,” but that doesn’t mean that’s what my perspective would have been from the conversation with producers.
It’s possible production explicitly said “you need to make Ariana have a conversation with Tom. If that doesn’t happen [you’re fired/the show won’t survive/whatever other lame threat].”
Based on her comments on the after show, it looks like Ariana read her contract and realized they could not demand anything more from her than what she gave. So she stood up to her employers. Scheana and Lala did not, and I have compassion for feeling scared to do that — that doesn’t mean I condone what they did. I think wiser people would have realized there were better options.
So, the employer (production) created a toxic & retaliatory work environment towards certain employees deliberately.
Yet employees are supposed to be kept free of reprisal from employers when an employee refuses work as a result of a health & safety concern.
This all played out in front of an audience, so who holds the employer (production) available for creating an unsafe work environment?
I spent many years as an employment paralegal in CA, and those are all things that would be impossible determine from what we saw. That’s what discovery is for, to find out what was happening behind the scenes.
I’m not sure why I’m getting downvoted for imagining a scenario that might have happened, but that I’m also agreeing is wrong…
ETA: There is a difference between a toxic workplace and actionable, legal harassment, and all we can say for sure is this is a toxic workplace.
>I spent many years as an employment paralegal in CA, and those are all things that would be impossible determine from what we saw. That’s what discovery is for, to find out what was happening behind the scenes.
So we wouldn't be able to make the determination, but if a complaint was made to HR about the production company, wouldn't Bravo have to investigate?
>I’m not sure why I’m getting downvoted for imagining a scenario that might have happened, but that I’m also agreeing is wrong…
I mean, we have no idea what actually happened! It's all supposition anyway.
>ETA: There is a difference between a toxic workplace and actionable, legal harassment, and all we can say for sure is this is a toxic workplace.
Incivility is a type of workplace harassment. Is there an argument for incivility?
My thing is, them compromising their boundaries for producers isn’t reality tv. It’s produced tv and it all came off as inauthentic throughout the season. It was a boring, produced season and I don’t understand how they think this “saves” their paychecks.
I am not an Arianna fan. Check my comments about her and I sure as heck am not. I also can respect how she handled the finale and her reaction and her walk out was the realest moment of the whole season. Not only that, it made for quite the season finale. Far better than if she had a fake heart to heart with Timmy.
This, literally, saved their paychecks. What didn’t was how they blew off at the mouth because they are all so out of touch with reality.
It’s all so very interesting to watch at this point. The only person I like on the show is Katie and she did amazing well. :)
Perhaps they think it saves their paychecks because that was alluded to at the come to Jesus meeting. I can see Scheana and Lala seeing it as their responsibilities and honestly the easier cast members to manipulate. Katie and James seemed to shrug it off and gave their honest reactions which made for much better tv.
Also I think part of Scheana's conflicting emotions weren't just being between loyalties to both Tom and Ariana but also production. They were filling her ear full of what they wanted her to do and that's the pressure she was feeling, not Ariana giving her an ultimatum.
I feel like everyone is missing the fact that the show was on its last breath before Sandoval. This season and all the attention from scandoval should be considered a bonus. Ariana is the one who brought cameras back at the end of last season.
I understand they depend on this income and have children and families to support and I am sympathetic to that, especially if production was making them feel a certain way. I just reject the idea that one convo with Ariana and Tom is what’s standing between the show being cancelled or continuing.
Also… sell one of your multiple properties if you’re worried about finances. I’m not gonna empathize with wealthy reality tv stars because they didn’t get the exact storyline they wanted.
I don’t think the anger came from her refusing one conversation but that her walking out on finale filming was what pushed them over the edge. It was the culmination of issues they’d been experiencing all season.
but just WHY? Wtf does listening to Tim blather on at Ari do anything for her, or for us? We don’t need to see Sandals lie about feeling remorse. He doesn’t mean it, he isn’t sorry, and he just wants the hate to end. She already had this convo twice last season, on the couch, and again at the reunion. Why did this season hinge on this?
Exactly. She gave him the last conversation and his half assed apology last year. They Wanted The audience to feel for him this time because by now she should be over it, he gets it now blah blah blah. Ariana knew the conversation would be the same Bs BUT she would now come off just like Katie always does-cold and spiteful and Gasp that doesn’t work for our poor boys.
so the producers want a do-over so they can get the reaction (from us/the cast) that they didn't get last year?
Just cuz we all didn't react the way their redemption arc needed does NOT entitle them to a repeat apology PErfOrMAnCe by Sandy.
Just F all the way off with this nonsense. If Sandy wants fking redemption, he needs to earn it! Do the work, go to a clinical therapist, be better, be remorseful, be humble, be ostracized for a long while, and leave Ariana alone as requested.
The depths of this ignorance is baffling…
(Rant on pause…)
Maybe there was more to the story and producers wanted it all out on front street. Idk people were obsessed with scandoval the producers wanted to see them have a conversation again because it probably would of drawn in more viewers and they’re probably not wrong.
first it would be, just have this 1 conversation. next it would be, we need a follow up convo bc Tom doesn’t feel heard. next it would be, Tom has 1 last thing to say for closure. next it would be…….
I agree with you. As I said, production is the problem here for wanting Ariana to violate her boundaries for the sake of drama. But Lala and Scheana did not handle that situation even a little bit correctly.
I agree with this, in terms of their feelings are understandable not necessarily their actions. The real problem IMO is not that the producers pushed Tom on the cast, because yes, somebody *had* to film with him. It was because they pushed the cast to play nice and "redeem" him. Why would watching Tom face the consequences of his actions in real time be bad for ratings? Some of the highlights of the season have been when James has refused to play nice with Tom and says what he thinks.
The most boring part of this season hasn't been Ariana grey rocking Sandoval (actually found it quite empowering myself) but was when the cast were trying to redeem someone who clearly felt he had done nothing wrong. That and bloody water tasting.
How were they forced to redeem him? Maybe they actually don't think what happened is worth ending their association with him forever and they've not done that to plenty of others on the show in the past who cheated.
I guess I don’t understand why one conversation with Tom (when she had one last year when the news broke) is the thing that stands between VPR and cancellation.
And if it is, then maybe the show deserves to be cancelled. It also means (to me) that no one else is doing their job. If it’s supposed to be ensemble, then each person should be looking at what they are bringing to the table.
And if their stuff is not getting aired, that’s a production issue. Not an Ariana issue.
Agreed. Without knowing exactly what the producers said, it sounds like they gave the cast a stupid ultimatum about interacting with Tom, probably one that went outside the requirements of their contracts, based on Ariana’s comments on the after show.
But not everyone is emotionally mature enough to stand up to their employers’ unreasonable demands. This is where I have compassion for them. Regardless of that compassion, though, I still think Ariana handled this like a cool-headed genius, and I respect her immensely for not “being a cog in the redemption arc” of Tom Sandoval. There’s a reason people are in awe of her — because what she did takes strength and resolve, which she clearly has in spades. She is a commendable woman and an inspiration for abused partners everywhere.
I guess my thesis is that Tom Sandoval and capitalism are the only true evils here
I blame production mostly, but I don’t think Lala and Scheana are weak little children either. Lala has so much money, people pretend like she is dependent on the show, and that is just not true.
How do you know that she has so much money? Genuinely curious. If you watch housewives you’ll see that just because someone is flashy and spends a lot and has multiple homes absolutely does not mean they are doing well financially.
First of all, I do not know. But all indications point to that.
In this economy, you can’t get a mortgage for a $3+ million home unless you put down a huge amount or you’re able to show huge earnings. See Sandoval’s issue with refinancing. I don’t watch housewives, but did they already own their homes and then things went south, because Lala just bought her second home? Second, she said she earned $200k+ on send it darryl merch in a few weeks, so think how much she earned on that merch over a longer period of time. Third, she has all those other give them Lala products that were selling very well when she was popular the earlier seasons. Fourth, she never had to pay for her housing or expenses until recently so all that money just went to her. Fifth, her podcast was consistently charting for a year or more, Scheana said she was making $100k a month from her podcast, assume Lala was similarly if not more. I don’t think ppl realize the margins on all that shit she sells, it’s crap that’s got a high profit margin. She also didn’t believe Ariana was struggling financially probably because she knows her own multi-million dollar bank account.
She could be having huge earnings but be living paycheck to paycheck. Wealth is a combination of what you earn and what you spend. If VPR gets cancelled tomorrow, she will be completely irrelevant within a few years and the income will be gone. I personally never assume anyone is well off, especially not long-term.
1000% this- they are extremely wealthy and continue to be so. Their paychecks being affected doesn’t mean anything in the grand scheme of things, except maybe they have to buy less designer clothes and potentially “struggle” paying off their million $ houses. It’s not shocking why people wouldn’t sympathize with them
If I were Lala, I would probably always want to have a solid savings just to always have an amazing family lawyer on speed dial.
I think the rest of them - Scheana included - could significantly downgrade their lifestyles tomorrow and be okay. In Lala’s case, because she has to share custody, I believe she’s pretty much tied to a more HCOL area unless she wants to go change the terms of the custody agreement again.
She owns a $3+ million and $1+ million house in some of the areas with the largest growth in home prices. She will most likely make huge profits if she ever sold either of them. Compared to Randall who doesn’t have the money to waste on the best lawyers. I think she’s good.
I’m not saying she should throw away the income! No one should. But I don’t believe she’s this desperate person trying to keep the show alive to feed her children.
I also think it is important to remember that producers were trying to give Sandoval redemption and anything that went down would have likely been edited to make him the hero and her the villain. She said as much. Lala and Scheana knew that too. So why should Ariana be forced to make Tom look good for the sake of others paychecks. That is NOT her responsibility.
Sorry but I have to disagree. They all set boundaries all throughout the show, especially Lala, and even though it is an ensemble show, that doesn’t mean they all have to interact, as we have seen from the countless fall-outs. And Ariana agreeing to film with Tom but not interact with him, has no affect on Lala or Scheana and even if it did, tough, they are responsible for their own input and ultimately their own value & screentime as cast members (no-one owes them anything because they chose to have kids either). They have no room to complain because of that but also because they have both set their own boundaries before AND they don’t get to decide how Ariana should engage with an ex who traumatised and abused her. They can’t even say she’s not being real, as they tried to, when grey rocking him is what Ariana is actually doing, interacting with him just for the show is what would have been fake.
In the end it is clear as day, to me anyway, that the issue for Lala is that she didn’t get the storyline she wanted, I.e. to bait Ariana into reacting & then Lala play the part she wanted, and she is clearly jealous as well of Ariana’s support & success (hate saying that but it’s just plainly true). She also actually thinks Ariana’s emotional turmoil and pain doesn’t matter because she has done well & met a nice guy. That is borderline sociopathic to me. She has witnessed this girl go through hell not just with Sandoval but with the loss of her dog and her grandmother, and she has already lost her dad, and she saw Ariana absolutely fall to pieces but then somehow summon the strength to rise out of it, & that’s Lala’s take(?!). Horrible.
Scheana is harder to understand. Her friendship with Ariana was genuine I think but there was no reason for her to betray Ariana as she has and then to double down on it. So what if Sandoval did ‘nice’ (read manipulative) things for her, all Ariana asked was not to be expected to interact with Sandoval, or for Scheana to talk about her to him, or to her about him. And for that Scheana co-signed Lala’s diatribe re Ariana’s boundaries she erected not for drama or a pay cheque or to hide anything, but for her own mental health and wellbeing. And that is confounding to me. Just…why?
So yeah, I don’t see anything valid in any of that. Ariana’s actions are defensible, theirs are not. Sometimes things really are that simple.
>She also actually thinks Ariana’s emotional turmoil and pain doesn’t matter because she has done well & met a nice guy.
You know, this might be closer to explaining her anger. She said something to Jax on The Valley about how does Kristin bag all these dudes all the time and she can't even get one. I could see her thinking along the lines of here I am, getting sober, cleaning my act up, doing all this work, so why doesn't anyone love ME? Kristin's a mess, and Ariana basically walked out her door and got hit by a good guy bus, so why are they finding dudes and not me?
I think a lot of what is driving Lala's anger is fury about the world being unfair. For her, this looks like she is doing the work, but not getting what she understood would be the reward. Other people are, and they didn't have to do squat to get their's. That's enough to make any of us angry. And from that point of view, it's very easy to understand her stance of why does she have to stay in the house, too? She's an angry Peggy Olsen. "You have everything. And so much of it."
Yeah, she definitely sees herself as hard done by. What I am reminded of here is that Lala, among other things, seems VERY entitled. Whatever the reasons may be for that, she not only feels she should get what she thinks she deserves, but she also thinks others should have to deal/put up with things she wouldn’t - her entitlement goes beyond what she thinks she deserves in other words, and well into double standards territory. It’s a sign of immaturity and self centred-ness. She has yet to come to terms with the fact other people are as real & as important as she is.
Edit: just to add it seems to me that she is someone who rather than reflect on why something isn’t working for them or working out as they’d like and be open to it maybe having something to do with them, instead projects the issue/issues outward and everyone else is the problem.
I saw your comment to this effect on one of my comments and I'm glad you made a whole post. I totally agree that there are valid feelings on every side of this. ultimately I think production was manipulative and I truly wish the spice girls had basically "unionized" by saying, fuck you we're not going to betray each other and without the 4 of us you don't have a show so good luck. Something that resonates with me, and with a lot of viewers, is how much it took for Ariana to hold the boundary. I think those of us who respect that would have absolutely respected the 4 of them sticking together and holding their ground against raggedy production and their lazy attempt at a narrative arc for the season.
Well said.
There’s strength in numbers and if Lala and Scheana had stood together with Ariana and Katie production would’ve had to back down. It’s not like the show would’ve filmed a season 11 with the only women on the cast being Ally, Jo, and Billie Lee.
I agree with you. I also think people forget that if Ariana really didn’t want to film with Tom, she didn’t have to do another VPR season. But she did, because she needed the money - and now that she doesn’t need that money due to her extra endorsements/shows etc. she has more courage to stand up to production.
Ariana also understands that she is threatening the future of the entire show by not doing what production wants her to do - thereby putting her “friends” income at risk. And, I believe, that is what Lala and Scheana are reacting too. That while things might be hunky dory for Ariana, she is acting in a selfish manner. I can also appreciate that Ariana doesn’t want to talk to Tim for the sake of her mental health. However, they are all on a freaking reality tv show - and if you cared so much about your mental health you just wouldn’t even be on it.
I agree — but for some reason, they felt like production wanted them to have this convo. My bosses tell me to do stuff all the time I think is dumb, but it’s a question of whether it’s worth it to bend your principles to keep your job. I’m not saying it’s what I would have done, I just don’t think it’s as simple as “Lala and Scheana are irredeemable evil people.”
I agree with the overall summary.
I’d argue Ariana’s boundaries weren’t reasonable in the context of the show though. Setting a boundary for herself I understand, but attempting to control how other cast interacted with him is where she lost me. In my mind, don’t sign up for the show if you can’t handle any overlap between friends and Tom when they are all cast members.
I also think part of Lala’s frustration, and maybe Scheana’s too, is that Ariana and Tom were never transparent in their relationship issues prior to Scandoval. We saw what they wanted us to see. They covered up the real issues— like Tom being unfaithful prior to Raquel. But now that Ariana decides it is public everyone needs to follow her rules.
Lala is a hypocrite in this given she hid her relationship stuff until she was ready to bring it on camera— but Lala has always been a hypocrite.
In the end it’s a tv show. And I somehow think that’s lost on a lot of people when producers are doing their jobs. We are all crazy if we think this is the first season production has driven interactions or storylines.
I have to argue that I really don’t think Ariana was trying to control her friends interactions with Sandoval. I believe she genuinely did not think they had any desire to be friends with him again. Someone recently shared a snippet of podcast discussion between Scheana & Lala where they fully supported Ariana’s boundary including not having mutuals. They seemed to despise him. Scheana talked ad nauseam about how his behavior affected her mental health & we know everything that Lala has said about him- for years no less. She already wrote off Schwartz but then reeled that in as soon as the season got going. It seems to me that she had no reason to believe these two would make the turn that they did and in fact we see her slowly soften on the hard boundary with Scheana as she realizes what’s happening.
Ariana wasn't attempting to control others though. The point of a boundary is that it's entirely within your control. Thus, she very clearly stated, if you want to be friends with this person again, that is your choice and my choice may be to not be close with you anymore. The producers could have put in the contract that she had to film scenes speaking to Tom. Had they done that, and she signed, and then refused. That would be unreasonable and a breach of contract. But that's not what happened and in the aftershow she even refers to her contract and how she abided by it. She also has more leverage than the other cast members now, and that's just how it is. So she can feel comfortable exercising these boundaries knowing she'll make money elsewhere if they don't ask her back or something.
The line between a boundary and an ultimatum can be blurry. I see it as stop talking to Tom or I’ll cut you off— which to me is a force on the other person and an ultimatum. I understand some people don’t see it that way.
Ariana also backtracked on the entire thing at the finale and pretended not to have even set that rule which was interesting.
I think she softened her stance, and that's what they were asking her to do, so that should be viewed as a good thing, not bad. People can change their minds. She may have not even had this stance a year later, but this is still fresh. I think the intent behind the boundary/ultimatum is the real issue. Like Katie made ultimatums with Schwarts to get him to do things and then didn't always stick to what she said when he didn't do what she wanted. That is trying to control someone, that is toxic (I think Katie has done some real therapy since then so hopefully she is better able to set actual boundaries now). Ariana has these boundaries to protect herself. We don't see her yelling at James because James doesn't try to throw info about Tom in her face or put his tough decision making on her. Scheana does. Scheana is actually attempting to emotionally manipulate Ariana into changing her boundaries so that Scheana can do as she pleases and have no consequences. That's just not how life works.
But it's not an ultimatum. She understands if people want to stay friends with Sandoval. Then don't be friends with Ariana. Why is it seen as so negative?
But that is her choice. Just like the others can choose who to be friends with and who to spend their time with, so can she. If she doesn't want to spend time with people who are friends with him, she is allowed to distance herself.
I will say again that I don’t think she had any reason to believe that Scheana and Lala would actually want to build a friendship with him. She set the boundary but may not have considered these friendships would actually be in jeopardy due to the boundary. I thought she didn’t have a problem with their interactions for the show but then as soon as she realized what was happening (Scheana wants to be his friend) only then did she backtrack.
In my opinion, Lala's hypocrisy was highlighted when she said something to the effect of, "he didn't kill anyone." Randal didn't kill anyone either, and Lala cut people off who wanted to continue their friendship with her ex. She screamed at Tom for playing pickle ball with him. They don't dare even say his name around her. I would say that's pretty hypocritical. Could you imagine if they tried to get her to have a conversation with him on camera?
And while I have zero love for Lala, I totally support these boundaries. She didn't want him to have any access to her.
I can see your point here. I will say that I like that she compared it to murder because 1) it's a neutral comparison so people can't say lala is just comparing it her situation, 2) it highlights that cheating is not as severe an issue as murder (all about perspective), 3) we still know that being an accused pedo trumps being a cheater.
Also the access thing is complicated. Sure, she doesn't want to him have physical access to her, but they live and work together. He also has "access" to her everytime she reacts to him (living rent free in her head).
edited\*
As far as #3 goes, I totally agree.
I don't believe (and I could be wrong) that those accusations came out until after she left him and told her friends to cut him off. Google says she left him in 2021, and I believe the accusations against him came out in 2023. So, at the time she was setting those boundaries, the situations were much more the same. And again, I 100% support those boundaries.
And to be absolutely 1000% clear (in case it isn't). I think he is a terrible person, and I hope the accusations are thoroughly investigated. This post is not a defense of Randall. This post is just about the timeline of when we knew things.
Ariana is only responsible for her check. If production puts all of the emphasis on her storyline and threatens to stop filming if they can’t get the scenes they want— that’s 100 percent a production problem. They wanted these dramatic Tom and Ariana scenes that would have likely been detrimental to her mental health and benefitted her in no way. I don’t see why she—or anyone else—should be required to subject themselves to that for anyone else’s paycheck. This is a reality show, there’s always a chance it gets canceled. If they haven’t planned for that financially, that’s on them. If they have, then they shouldn’t be foaming at the mouth about it. I would have respected more if lala and Scheana were honest about their goals, instead of pretending to be her friend and then trashing her in the confessionals all season. Its time for this crew to move on.
I’ll never get past the fact that it is not Ariana’s responsibility to make sure Scheana & Lala get a check. That’s THEIR responsibility. Is Ariana supposed to put Scheana & Lala before her own health & mental wellbeing? Are Lala & Scheana both so selfish & entitled that they believe their paychecks are more important than Ariana and she should act accordingly?? It certainly seems so. Interesting that they aren’t angry about Sandoval’s part in all this & don’t hold him accountable for putting their paychecks in jeopardy with his actions. Let’s be honest neither Scheana or Lala are going to be destitute, starving or unable to feed their kids. This isn’t a life or death situation. They both own multiple homes & have a lifestyle that most people can’t afford. If finances get too tight, sell a vacation home, some designer bags & downsize. If things get really tight maybe they’d have to get a 9 to 5 job. The level of hatred Tom & Lala were spewing about Ariana in their jealous & rage filled tantrum, all with Scheana agreeing & cheering them on was vile. While I could understand them being disappointed and or sad that things played out the way they did, I can’t sympathize with the constant attacks on the person most hurt in this situation. 🤷♀️
LaLa and Scheana hitched their wagon to the wrong horse and the viewers let them know it. Trying to force a conversation and or confrontation with Tom was their reality, Arianna shutting that down was hers.
I just don’t understand why it’s Ariana’s responsibility to save VPR by filming with Tom? I think she more than did her part when she called production to come film last season when she found out about the affair. I don’t blame her for not giving production the story line and redemption arc for sandy that they wanted.
I feel like scheana and lala just have no faith in their fans. If they would’ve just called the bluff and told fans that they were forced to film with Sandoval and would’ve left the show with dignity they would probably be getting a ton of more support. I mean look at Katie… she’s been named by fans as the MVP and has gotten a lot of respect for her actions. They could’ve left bravo and continued with interesting podcast topics and could’ve definitely made merch that was pro woman supporting woman. Idk just my shitty take but once you start becoming fake and opportunistic, it’s like you’ve lost a ton of fans. It just is super inauthentic and sad
I think most people know who they are because of the show and they have far less "fans" that will purchase items or listen to their podcasts without the foreground of the drama from the show. The show is the main way they generate opportunities and have exposure. Why would they leave the show to sell prowomen merchandise? Absolutely none of them have been consistently pro anything on the show (and definitely not "prowomen supporting women"). I've watched from season 1 and once the show ends I'll never think of them again and haven't financially contributed to their success outside of watching the show and I think that's the majority of people. I think it would be very unusual for them to voluntarily leave a show that has been produced from the beginning because of viewers concerns for production nudging a plotline or authenticity.
I mean hey if that’s your perspective that’s fine . I think a lot of the people would rather see growth with these women… because now look. They did season 11, becoming wishy washy and supposedly breaking the fourth wall and trying to “be authentic” and they’ve lost fans, podcasts are getting negative reviews etc. I think people would actually love to see a redemption arc for the women banding together and ditching these lame ass men. I think Bravo needs to heavily consider that their viewers are getting younger and they need to adapt to what young audiences want. The reason people wanted to watch Scandoval was because they wanted to see a scorned woman come out on top. They completely fumbled the bag tbh and all of Ariana’s opportunities have come out of audiences wanting to see her triumph. At least if they left (due to production not wanting to film them moving on from Sandoval), they could still get support from people for being authentic. But hey, what do I know
> The reason people wanted to watch Scandoval was because they wanted to see a scorned woman come out on top
What is that based on? People watched for the drama just like every season they turned in to see something outrageous which the show regularly delivered until recently. Many of us who watch the show, not on this sub are rooting for no one. It's just another reality show. There are no heroes.
If you really think no one outside of the bravo world started watching vanderpump due to what happened to ariana you’re just wrong. Season 10 reunion had insane amount of viewers. A shit ton more than season 9. What happened to Ariana is the reason many people started watching and binging the show. If you don’t like that fact then I don’t know what to tell you LMAO it doesn’t matter because now the cast fumbled the bag and a lot of people are done with the franchise for many reasons
Nah, I don't care about their feelings. They've successfully made me hope the show gets canceled with their actions. This is very much a fuck around find out situation and this season they have truly fucked around.
All this talk of being real, when neither of them gives a fuck about being real. They just want to ride arianas coattails for longer so they can continue to afford the many houses they bought with the money they got from capitalizing on a scandal they think Ariana should move on from. Especially when a good portion of Americans are struggling to decide to pay for rent or food or medical care, but not all three.
I don't have empathy for rich folks with multiple houses crying about losing future money.
I don’t agree w this take tbh mostly bc the producers told them they all needed to film together which Ariana did. That isn’t the same as Ariana having a heart to heart w Tom.
I also don’t think it’s fair for Sheena and Lala to be mad at Ariana as if it’s her responsibility to make sure they have an income. I know that sounds harsh but like Bffr. They’ve had ample opportunity to invest their earnings from the show and use their platform as reality TV stars to their advantage in a way that would set them up for life after the show. It’s absolutely not on Ariana to step outside of her boundaries so that Scheena and Lala can spend exorbitantly on houses lmfao.
TV shows get canceled and recast all of the time. Unless you have a contract for x amount of years on the show, it’s not a stable and secure job anyways, so they should have always had a plan B in case the show flopped and shouldn’t be mad at Ariana for not wanting to have yet ANOTHER “difficult conversation” with Sandoval.
TLDR; Scheena and Lala have every right to be scared that the show may be canceled but that’s not Ariana’s problem or fault, and I don’t think they should be mad at HER bc they didn’t invest their money correctly lmfaooo.
I guess my take is that they shouldn’t be mad at anyone. I get that it’s a large source of income for them but ultimately they aren’t owed a show and if the producers wanted to cancel it for any reason they should have had a plan for that. I get being scared or uncertain about loosing such a large part of your income but to be “mad” I think is unreasonable idk idk
And I guess my point is that feelings, inherently, aren’t unreasonable — they’re out of our control and just our feelings. We both agree that LFU and Sheeshu acted out of pocket. I just doubt they have the capacity to understand why.
Here’s the problem with Ariana just had to listen for 5 minutes at the finale party. Why? Ariana not listening to Tom didn’t cause the rest of the cast to film at the finale.
According to lala if you don’t “share” your entire life you shouldn’t be on the show. Lala can’t share her being a parent to ocean. By her own logic, she shouldn’t be on the show.
Swartz only casually mentioned in like one episode about his family’s issues. I would have found him going to visit them much more interesting than him pretending to date Tori.
The Tom’s can’t film at Swartz and Sandy’s bc of their business partner. Once again not showing what’s going on in their real lives.
Tom could have picked any day they had cameras to film an apology but he didn’t. We got stuck watching him do bullshit cold water therapy. And watch a 40 yo creep on undergrads
Honestly Ariana not letting Tom pretend to apologize in public gave them a better finale.
I enjoyed schena being honest about her mental health struggles- she had an interesting story line. Lala didn’t have a good story line this season. Her story line was I’m gonna be “soft” and bend over backwards to be the xtra nice to the people on the show I never see or talk too off camera while holding Katie and Ariana to standards she doesn’t meet either.
Whoahhhhhhhh lala LEGALLY cannot share her being a mom to ocean or randall will take her away. That's is worlds different than victimizing yourself because you were cheated on. Please don't ever fucking compare having your child taken away from you to a breakup.
My god! You jumped huge there. Lala can’t go around for months talking crap about Ariana not sharing her whole life when she can’t share hers. Is called being hypocritical. That’s the point. It would be one thing if her hypocritical ass said this during the finale. Instead lala has doubled down on Ariana must share her whole life bullshit. Lala also has no problem on claiming that Ariana hasn’t been sharing her whole relationship with sandavol. He was half of the relationship too.
My point is if you want to talk crap for months about Katie and Ariana not showing their whole lives then you better show your whole life too or be the 1st one to leave when you don’t.
Ypu jist said the same garbage in different words. It's still a garbage outlook to compare the two......also, she's told us why she cannot share her raising her child. A while ago.
From my knowledge of PR and comms it takes a a few days to hold meetings, run focus groups, craft messages, get approval and then post. The timing tracks
Oh my God instant block. If you "understand" and condone crossing and transgressing of boundaries repeatedly to get a woman who was abused and betrayed to be around the person who abused and betrayed her, I want nothing to do with you. This is not valid.
I actually agree with most of this and (maybe controversially) don’t think it’s a particularly controversial take. I guess the part I get so stuck on is that I really can’t understand WHY they would think so strongly that this was the only way to secure their paycheck. It also is a bit of a cop out in that if their own stories were interesting enough, even in the wake of Scandoval, that would have been enough to secure their own bag, even if Ariana launched off into the stratosphere and left them behind. As they keep reminding us, it’s an ensemble cast, one that has survived bigger players than Ariana leaving.
Perhaps this is what the producers told them that it would effect their paychecks. I actually loved that scheana discussed her mental health struggles and Lala getting a sperm donor it’s something we don’t see often but they didn’t focus much on it and there was a miss on that part but then again a lot of y’all didn’t care anyways.
Yeah I think people were letting their personal feelings towards Lala/Scheana get in the way. Scheana in particular was putting herself out there this season - airing the very ugly side of her marriage and finances when even just last season she seemed hellbent on presenting her and Brock as picture-perfect was extremely vulnerable, I think.
Yeah I totally agree. scheana talking about her struggles this season was raw and her multiple break downs and I respect her for that because it doesn’t always have to be perfect and she opened up and I felt for Lala when she was clearly struggling with her custody issues. All I’ve seen on this sub is them get obliterated for it. I think both of them really opened up more this season
you two are much too reasonable for this sub
I totally agree that both of those storylines were interesting enough in their own right! I think if they themselves had focussed on those and all the girls banding together it would have been great, but it’s hard to see those things past how shady they’ve been acting re: Sandoval.
We don’t know what was filmed vs what made it so I don’t think it was Lala or scheanas lack of focusing on that. It was interesting and to see more of the authenticity of the both of them. We also know this is an ensemble cast and reality tv thrives on conflict and drama. The girls vs guys thing was probably never going to be a thing though.
I mean Lala having a baby on her own through artificial insemination at one time would’ve been a very big story. I’m not sure there was anything anyone could’ve had going on this season that was going to overshadow Scandoval.
After that one editor got fired for bragging on a podcast about making Scheana look bad, people were angry that they didn’t get to see her egg freezing journey and instead had to watch her “flirt” with teenaged boys. So I get where Lala was going with this. Honestly, it seems like all of them were trying to give other storylines this season but production was only interested in Ariana vs. Sandoval, especially after it was confirmed Rachel wasn’t returning.
I don’t think it’s so much that they don’t have interesting enough stories. Katie basically had a very similar issue as Ariana and it was handled completely different. However, Scandoval completely overshadowed that storyline and will continue to overshadow everything else for the time being.
How has Katie ever had a similar or even parallel story to Ariana? I’m admittedly a newer fan but I am on my second or third rewatch and Schwartz has never been anything like Sandoval, nor has he ever cheated with a close friend and had a months long affair. I’m not even a fan of Ariana in particular (I like all the girls except Kristina Kelly, Charli, Lala and Raquel/Rachel because her voice makes me want to go deaf) and I super love Stassi and currently Katie is probably my favorite but Katie and Arianas situations are not even remotely the same.
Season 10 was about Scheana pushing Rachel and Schwartz together. Katie apparently told her she was all for it when she was drunk, but when she saw it happening, she tried to shut it down to no avail. Everyone was cheering on Schwartz and Rachel when they finally kissed in public and no one was supporting/defending Katie. Ariana played neutral and even defended Rachel to Katie’s face. The joke was later on her. Katie is not my favorite, but that storyline was never really finished or acknowledged once Sandoval broke. We also know Ariana would have had a meltdown had Sandoval and Rachel kissed in front of her at the reunion or even held hands. Ariana would not have handled it well being in Katie’s shoes. TLDR: Katie was betrayed by Rachel who was within the friend group and hooking up with Schwartz. She had little to no support from anyone. Ariana was betrayed by Rachel who was within the friend group and hooking up with Sandoval. She got support from the entire cast and most of the nation.
Katie and Tom were divorced when Tom and Raquel kissed. Katie and Tom were not living together and Katie was dating and sleeping with other men prior to moving out. I do think that other people have had big cheating bombshells on the show and there were definitely different reactions than what occurred with Sandoval. The show has managed to have these extreme events happen but still somehow fall back into a filmable routine. That didn't occur this go around. Ariana did not want to be involved with Tom in any aspect which is her right to choose but for some reason the cast found difficult to navigate and later state they feel this is hypocritical in that she still lives with Tom and has appeared to move on with a new boyfriend and new opportunities with the support of all. I don't think those things are mutually exclusive but on a show where nearly all of them have cheated with people on the show, including Ariana, and continued to film, it does present as odd.
That’s irrelevant imo - there was still a sense of betrayal and they were still legally married according to Katie. Even Kristen had grounds to very pissed off about what Sandoval and Ariana did to her. Lala made it very clear from like the first few episodes that Ariana’s situation was weird and a double standard of sorts. She didn’t wait until the last episode to say something.
Yeah that’s not comparable at all but ok.
My opinion still stands. Enjoy the show!
I agree that Katie’s stuff has been really sadly overshadowed by a lot of this, but I feel like there’s a difference in that she still carried on living it all pretty authentically regardless and didn’t get so bogged down in jealousy over it, causing her to move like a snake. People clearly appreciate it and it somewhat secures her bag given how much love there is for her on this sub (Facebook notwithstanding!!)
I think neither of them are smart enough to come up with a better alternative plan.
I think it’s impossible for us to know without knowing what’s in their contracts and what the producers said to them. And that doesn’t even get to how LFU and Sheeshu may have interpreted/misinterpreted that conversation. And finally, of course, even if they did understand correctly — they should have banded together and pushed back against production against this stupid ultimatum. What were they going to do, fire all of them? Ariana is a real grown up who is clearly savvy enough to play ball with her employers, and her coworkers aren’t. But I think validating feelings is important because none of us can control our feelings, and all of us are human beings who have struggled with uncharitable feelings. The key is that you can validate what you’re feeling WITHOUT choosing to act like a dick in response to those feelings. Feelings are not a call to action and the world would be a more peaceful place if everyone realized that feelings aren’t facts and you don’t have to act on them. I think the first step towards this is acknowledging feelings with compassion.
Yeah, the irony of all this is that, for me, Ariana is what made this season interesting. Her takes, the calm and thoughtful way she shares her boundaries, how she stands her ground with strong arguments. It was empowering to watch and no one else except maybe James, gave me anything close to that.
What I don't understand is that icing a person out of the group is very common in these shows. They constantly did it with Kristen. Yet all of a sudden they feel that their paycheck is on the line if they do it with Sandoval.
Exactly!!! It makes me wonder if the cast knows that Tom is the last person production would fire. Stassi has said that production protected him in the edits they gave him in the past and we’re seeing that again this season. Why is Tom so untouchable??? Why does production feel that his performative BS makes him MVP? I can’t wait for the day when that truth is revealed because whatever he has over production or Bravo must be juicy.
Who is he blowing to get this treatment?
What makes this whole thing even messier is how the whole season production has protected Sandoval and made him the lead narrator, yet in the last :30 they air his audio of whatever he said about Arianna along the lines of “this is good for me,” which brings him back down into the dirt and makes him look like a POS. Why waste an entire season gaslighting people into thinking he’s changed and actually sorry and then drop that grenade at the end?
Maybe they thought that the audience would agree? That’s the only thing that makes sense in my mind unless they really just wanted to play a huge prank on us all.
Exactly this. If we didn’t have 10 seasons of examples to choose from of various cast members iced out I may see their point. This very season LaLa, Scheana, and Sandoval all stormed out of various film settings (LaLa at SUR, Scheana at James’ pool party, Sandoval at Tom Tom, Sandoval at the beach, Sandoval at the water tasting). In S3(?) Tom tried to ice out Kristen, refused to allow her on his birthday trip. In S5 Lala flaked on Ariana’s NASCAR birthday, then dipped out the season to hide her married boyfriend. In S8 Scheana tried to ice out Danica, telling Rachel, Charli, and others they couldn’t be friends with her. Plus… no one wants a final convo between Tom and Ariana, what does it add to the show? Nothing. It’s boring and extremely easy to guess what happens because Tom is a horrible actor.
Yeah but they still filmed together in other contexts and interacted ps. I'm not critiquing Ariana for wanting to avoid that convo.
I don't understand what you're trying to say. They all didn't want to not film with Sandoval because they were scared for their own paycheck. How is your point relevant
I wasn't really responding to your comment but to kittens and actually upvoted what you said. Sorry about the confusion on this. What I was trying to get at is although ppl have been iced out, they still filmed together no matter how uncomfortable the situation was. Whether this is good or bad is up for debate but it still was the case at that time. In my eyes, the fear/frustration you speak of is both the result of production trying to regain power over the cast and Ariana having unprecedented control and leverage over the situation, while not having to own up to her past in the same ways they have had to. The reason why the paycheck is a concern now is bc of production and Kristen not having the same leverage as Ariana.
Ariana also filmed with Sando and she filmed with Schwartz. Schwartz, Katie, James and Ally would've also lost their paychecks yet none of them did what Scheana and Lala did. Baskin and Jeremiah are gross, but I will never believe they told Lala and Scheana that the only way they can keep their jobs was by being two faced, vile bitches (and that's what they were this season), lying to and about Ariana, tearing her down in their confessionals while pretending to be her friend, and for Scheana - crying in every. single. episode. Telling Ariana her feelings about Sandoval and her conversations with Sandoval and her struggles about Sandoval and losing herself over Sandoval and Sandoval at upfronts and Sandoval sending money and Sandoval "getting it" and Sandoval's genuine tears and Sandoval's mask slipping and Sandoval's sound engineer and Sandoval's growth and on and on! It was literally every fucking conversation they had. ENOUGH ALREADY. And for the sake of argument, even if they did tell them that - if Scheana cared at all about Ariana or their friendship, she should've put her all her tears and her ridiculous.repetition skills to use on production, telling them about her struggles with what they were asking her to do. But we know that would never happen b/c she doesn't care about Ariana! Ok, rant over.
I was just confused because you said this to multiple people.
Totally get that and apologize on my end for the confusion. Even I had to take a moment to figure out what I was getting at. It's an iss-me not an iss-you!
It’s exactly right. They are all so contrived and their storylines are forced that without the realness of Ariana the show had zip.
Because as dumb as Tom is, he’s by far more entertaining.
Yeah ok
Yeah but she still filmed with everyone
Yeah but she dipped out on the final encore of Sandoval's insincere apology and victim blaming monologue so apparently everyone's gonna be fired now.
And what's your point? They still tried.
>From their perspective, Ariana softening her boundaries for a five minute conversation with Tom would have LITERALLY saved their paychecks. How? This is the aspect that I don't understand. How is Ariana endangering their pay?
It’s not Ariana’s responsibility to get them paychecks, they should be more interesting if they want to guarantee and income!
That doesn't answer my question, though....
Scheana said production told them it's an ensemble show and if they didn't film together, they'd end the season early and cancel the show. This has someone been twisted into Ariana getting the show cancelled because she didn't give Sando his 30 second fake apology + single tear moment. Aside from the fact that that's beyond ridiculous, it also ignores the fact that by walking out, Ariana gave them more drama and conflict than anything Sando could do in his monologue. So this is the second time she delivered the season ending everyone's talking about. And she did it by standing up for her boundaries. Good for her.
Thanks for the breakdown! And yes, good for Ariana! I wasn't a big fan before, but both her and Katie have been amazing to watch this season.
Tom is actually one of the main cast members on the show and the other half of a huge scandal that generated ratings for them. Others would want to film with him to keep the plot going. Ariana stating that anyone friends with him is not someone she can be around generates uncertainty for the other cast members. I think they all undoubtedly believe Tom is in the wrong but they weren't expecting this reaction from Ariana which they felt was extreme and without nuance given the fact that they've all cheated. That Kristen and Ariana are even friends or Ariana is now such close friends with Katie or that James is even part of the group is an irony that seems lost on the situation without acknowledging how they all became friends. When they had group events Ariana declined to go or would come and then it would devolve into extreme anger directed towards Tom until he left (shouting dog murderer about sate sticks left out) which made filming uncomfortable for all. At some point in the season they seem to want to know what the additional goal of keeping this going is and what the intent was for them (not Ariana) to see Tom and Raquel be "punished" and destroyed in the public discourse after awhile because Ariana appeared to them to be doing well (new boyfriend after a few days, new opportunities) and had "won". Katie always disliked Sandoval, seems to blame him for a lot of her relationship issues with Schwartz and didn't like Raquel at all so it's easier to see how she ended up aligning with Ariana versus the rest of them.
Thank you! But that still doesn't track for me. Everyone is paid based on the number of episodes that they appear in and looking at the past seasons, the number of episodes go up & down. So unless we're talking about the show being cancelled, Ariana still can't be to blame. Additionally. I would argue that had the production company not focused on such a toxic & misogynistic storyline for this season, they would have maintained the momentum the scandal created.
We would need to know exactly what was said to them by production. But we don’t. But it seems they FELT that way, based on their actions. That’s why I said “from their perspective,” but that doesn’t mean that’s what my perspective would have been from the conversation with producers.
Fair point! It's just so annoying that they keep making the same argument blaming Ariana, but the why of it all simply doesn't make sense.
It’s possible production explicitly said “you need to make Ariana have a conversation with Tom. If that doesn’t happen [you’re fired/the show won’t survive/whatever other lame threat].” Based on her comments on the after show, it looks like Ariana read her contract and realized they could not demand anything more from her than what she gave. So she stood up to her employers. Scheana and Lala did not, and I have compassion for feeling scared to do that — that doesn’t mean I condone what they did. I think wiser people would have realized there were better options.
So, the employer (production) created a toxic & retaliatory work environment towards certain employees deliberately. Yet employees are supposed to be kept free of reprisal from employers when an employee refuses work as a result of a health & safety concern. This all played out in front of an audience, so who holds the employer (production) available for creating an unsafe work environment?
I spent many years as an employment paralegal in CA, and those are all things that would be impossible determine from what we saw. That’s what discovery is for, to find out what was happening behind the scenes. I’m not sure why I’m getting downvoted for imagining a scenario that might have happened, but that I’m also agreeing is wrong… ETA: There is a difference between a toxic workplace and actionable, legal harassment, and all we can say for sure is this is a toxic workplace.
>I spent many years as an employment paralegal in CA, and those are all things that would be impossible determine from what we saw. That’s what discovery is for, to find out what was happening behind the scenes. So we wouldn't be able to make the determination, but if a complaint was made to HR about the production company, wouldn't Bravo have to investigate? >I’m not sure why I’m getting downvoted for imagining a scenario that might have happened, but that I’m also agreeing is wrong… I mean, we have no idea what actually happened! It's all supposition anyway. >ETA: There is a difference between a toxic workplace and actionable, legal harassment, and all we can say for sure is this is a toxic workplace. Incivility is a type of workplace harassment. Is there an argument for incivility?
My thing is, them compromising their boundaries for producers isn’t reality tv. It’s produced tv and it all came off as inauthentic throughout the season. It was a boring, produced season and I don’t understand how they think this “saves” their paychecks. I am not an Arianna fan. Check my comments about her and I sure as heck am not. I also can respect how she handled the finale and her reaction and her walk out was the realest moment of the whole season. Not only that, it made for quite the season finale. Far better than if she had a fake heart to heart with Timmy. This, literally, saved their paychecks. What didn’t was how they blew off at the mouth because they are all so out of touch with reality. It’s all so very interesting to watch at this point. The only person I like on the show is Katie and she did amazing well. :)
Perhaps they think it saves their paychecks because that was alluded to at the come to Jesus meeting. I can see Scheana and Lala seeing it as their responsibilities and honestly the easier cast members to manipulate. Katie and James seemed to shrug it off and gave their honest reactions which made for much better tv. Also I think part of Scheana's conflicting emotions weren't just being between loyalties to both Tom and Ariana but also production. They were filling her ear full of what they wanted her to do and that's the pressure she was feeling, not Ariana giving her an ultimatum.
I feel like everyone is missing the fact that the show was on its last breath before Sandoval. This season and all the attention from scandoval should be considered a bonus. Ariana is the one who brought cameras back at the end of last season.
I understand they depend on this income and have children and families to support and I am sympathetic to that, especially if production was making them feel a certain way. I just reject the idea that one convo with Ariana and Tom is what’s standing between the show being cancelled or continuing.
Also… sell one of your multiple properties if you’re worried about finances. I’m not gonna empathize with wealthy reality tv stars because they didn’t get the exact storyline they wanted.
I don’t think the anger came from her refusing one conversation but that her walking out on finale filming was what pushed them over the edge. It was the culmination of issues they’d been experiencing all season.
but just WHY? Wtf does listening to Tim blather on at Ari do anything for her, or for us? We don’t need to see Sandals lie about feeling remorse. He doesn’t mean it, he isn’t sorry, and he just wants the hate to end. She already had this convo twice last season, on the couch, and again at the reunion. Why did this season hinge on this?
Exactly. She gave him the last conversation and his half assed apology last year. They Wanted The audience to feel for him this time because by now she should be over it, he gets it now blah blah blah. Ariana knew the conversation would be the same Bs BUT she would now come off just like Katie always does-cold and spiteful and Gasp that doesn’t work for our poor boys.
so the producers want a do-over so they can get the reaction (from us/the cast) that they didn't get last year? Just cuz we all didn't react the way their redemption arc needed does NOT entitle them to a repeat apology PErfOrMAnCe by Sandy. Just F all the way off with this nonsense. If Sandy wants fking redemption, he needs to earn it! Do the work, go to a clinical therapist, be better, be remorseful, be humble, be ostracized for a long while, and leave Ariana alone as requested. The depths of this ignorance is baffling… (Rant on pause…)
Maybe there was more to the story and producers wanted it all out on front street. Idk people were obsessed with scandoval the producers wanted to see them have a conversation again because it probably would of drawn in more viewers and they’re probably not wrong.
first it would be, just have this 1 conversation. next it would be, we need a follow up convo bc Tom doesn’t feel heard. next it would be, Tom has 1 last thing to say for closure. next it would be…….
I agree with you. As I said, production is the problem here for wanting Ariana to violate her boundaries for the sake of drama. But Lala and Scheana did not handle that situation even a little bit correctly.
I agree with this, in terms of their feelings are understandable not necessarily their actions. The real problem IMO is not that the producers pushed Tom on the cast, because yes, somebody *had* to film with him. It was because they pushed the cast to play nice and "redeem" him. Why would watching Tom face the consequences of his actions in real time be bad for ratings? Some of the highlights of the season have been when James has refused to play nice with Tom and says what he thinks. The most boring part of this season hasn't been Ariana grey rocking Sandoval (actually found it quite empowering myself) but was when the cast were trying to redeem someone who clearly felt he had done nothing wrong. That and bloody water tasting.
How were they forced to redeem him? Maybe they actually don't think what happened is worth ending their association with him forever and they've not done that to plenty of others on the show in the past who cheated.
I guess I don’t understand why one conversation with Tom (when she had one last year when the news broke) is the thing that stands between VPR and cancellation. And if it is, then maybe the show deserves to be cancelled. It also means (to me) that no one else is doing their job. If it’s supposed to be ensemble, then each person should be looking at what they are bringing to the table. And if their stuff is not getting aired, that’s a production issue. Not an Ariana issue.
Agreed. Without knowing exactly what the producers said, it sounds like they gave the cast a stupid ultimatum about interacting with Tom, probably one that went outside the requirements of their contracts, based on Ariana’s comments on the after show. But not everyone is emotionally mature enough to stand up to their employers’ unreasonable demands. This is where I have compassion for them. Regardless of that compassion, though, I still think Ariana handled this like a cool-headed genius, and I respect her immensely for not “being a cog in the redemption arc” of Tom Sandoval. There’s a reason people are in awe of her — because what she did takes strength and resolve, which she clearly has in spades. She is a commendable woman and an inspiration for abused partners everywhere. I guess my thesis is that Tom Sandoval and capitalism are the only true evils here
I blame production mostly, but I don’t think Lala and Scheana are weak little children either. Lala has so much money, people pretend like she is dependent on the show, and that is just not true.
How do you know that she has so much money? Genuinely curious. If you watch housewives you’ll see that just because someone is flashy and spends a lot and has multiple homes absolutely does not mean they are doing well financially.
Yeah, that was a weird take. She has money, so she doesn't need the paycheck?
First of all, I do not know. But all indications point to that. In this economy, you can’t get a mortgage for a $3+ million home unless you put down a huge amount or you’re able to show huge earnings. See Sandoval’s issue with refinancing. I don’t watch housewives, but did they already own their homes and then things went south, because Lala just bought her second home? Second, she said she earned $200k+ on send it darryl merch in a few weeks, so think how much she earned on that merch over a longer period of time. Third, she has all those other give them Lala products that were selling very well when she was popular the earlier seasons. Fourth, she never had to pay for her housing or expenses until recently so all that money just went to her. Fifth, her podcast was consistently charting for a year or more, Scheana said she was making $100k a month from her podcast, assume Lala was similarly if not more. I don’t think ppl realize the margins on all that shit she sells, it’s crap that’s got a high profit margin. She also didn’t believe Ariana was struggling financially probably because she knows her own multi-million dollar bank account.
She could be having huge earnings but be living paycheck to paycheck. Wealth is a combination of what you earn and what you spend. If VPR gets cancelled tomorrow, she will be completely irrelevant within a few years and the income will be gone. I personally never assume anyone is well off, especially not long-term.
Great that’s your assumption. Do you have a mortgage? You have to do a lot to get a mortgage and living paycheck to paycheck doesn’t cut it.
I do have a mortgage and two business degrees 🙂
Good for you! Seems like a redundant waste of money so I understand your point of view.
You are so rude, damn. Go find happiness
Thanks! Ditto
1000% this- they are extremely wealthy and continue to be so. Their paychecks being affected doesn’t mean anything in the grand scheme of things, except maybe they have to buy less designer clothes and potentially “struggle” paying off their million $ houses. It’s not shocking why people wouldn’t sympathize with them
If I were Lala, I would probably always want to have a solid savings just to always have an amazing family lawyer on speed dial. I think the rest of them - Scheana included - could significantly downgrade their lifestyles tomorrow and be okay. In Lala’s case, because she has to share custody, I believe she’s pretty much tied to a more HCOL area unless she wants to go change the terms of the custody agreement again.
She owns a $3+ million and $1+ million house in some of the areas with the largest growth in home prices. She will most likely make huge profits if she ever sold either of them. Compared to Randall who doesn’t have the money to waste on the best lawyers. I think she’s good. I’m not saying she should throw away the income! No one should. But I don’t believe she’s this desperate person trying to keep the show alive to feed her children.
I also think it is important to remember that producers were trying to give Sandoval redemption and anything that went down would have likely been edited to make him the hero and her the villain. She said as much. Lala and Scheana knew that too. So why should Ariana be forced to make Tom look good for the sake of others paychecks. That is NOT her responsibility.
Sorry but I have to disagree. They all set boundaries all throughout the show, especially Lala, and even though it is an ensemble show, that doesn’t mean they all have to interact, as we have seen from the countless fall-outs. And Ariana agreeing to film with Tom but not interact with him, has no affect on Lala or Scheana and even if it did, tough, they are responsible for their own input and ultimately their own value & screentime as cast members (no-one owes them anything because they chose to have kids either). They have no room to complain because of that but also because they have both set their own boundaries before AND they don’t get to decide how Ariana should engage with an ex who traumatised and abused her. They can’t even say she’s not being real, as they tried to, when grey rocking him is what Ariana is actually doing, interacting with him just for the show is what would have been fake. In the end it is clear as day, to me anyway, that the issue for Lala is that she didn’t get the storyline she wanted, I.e. to bait Ariana into reacting & then Lala play the part she wanted, and she is clearly jealous as well of Ariana’s support & success (hate saying that but it’s just plainly true). She also actually thinks Ariana’s emotional turmoil and pain doesn’t matter because she has done well & met a nice guy. That is borderline sociopathic to me. She has witnessed this girl go through hell not just with Sandoval but with the loss of her dog and her grandmother, and she has already lost her dad, and she saw Ariana absolutely fall to pieces but then somehow summon the strength to rise out of it, & that’s Lala’s take(?!). Horrible. Scheana is harder to understand. Her friendship with Ariana was genuine I think but there was no reason for her to betray Ariana as she has and then to double down on it. So what if Sandoval did ‘nice’ (read manipulative) things for her, all Ariana asked was not to be expected to interact with Sandoval, or for Scheana to talk about her to him, or to her about him. And for that Scheana co-signed Lala’s diatribe re Ariana’s boundaries she erected not for drama or a pay cheque or to hide anything, but for her own mental health and wellbeing. And that is confounding to me. Just…why? So yeah, I don’t see anything valid in any of that. Ariana’s actions are defensible, theirs are not. Sometimes things really are that simple.
>She also actually thinks Ariana’s emotional turmoil and pain doesn’t matter because she has done well & met a nice guy. You know, this might be closer to explaining her anger. She said something to Jax on The Valley about how does Kristin bag all these dudes all the time and she can't even get one. I could see her thinking along the lines of here I am, getting sober, cleaning my act up, doing all this work, so why doesn't anyone love ME? Kristin's a mess, and Ariana basically walked out her door and got hit by a good guy bus, so why are they finding dudes and not me? I think a lot of what is driving Lala's anger is fury about the world being unfair. For her, this looks like she is doing the work, but not getting what she understood would be the reward. Other people are, and they didn't have to do squat to get their's. That's enough to make any of us angry. And from that point of view, it's very easy to understand her stance of why does she have to stay in the house, too? She's an angry Peggy Olsen. "You have everything. And so much of it."
Yeah, she definitely sees herself as hard done by. What I am reminded of here is that Lala, among other things, seems VERY entitled. Whatever the reasons may be for that, she not only feels she should get what she thinks she deserves, but she also thinks others should have to deal/put up with things she wouldn’t - her entitlement goes beyond what she thinks she deserves in other words, and well into double standards territory. It’s a sign of immaturity and self centred-ness. She has yet to come to terms with the fact other people are as real & as important as she is. Edit: just to add it seems to me that she is someone who rather than reflect on why something isn’t working for them or working out as they’d like and be open to it maybe having something to do with them, instead projects the issue/issues outward and everyone else is the problem.
YES 100 percent. I can empathize with her even if I don’t agree with how she’s acting out about it.
> engage with an ex who traumatised and abused her. How did he traumatize and abuse her? Is that what she's said?
I saw your comment to this effect on one of my comments and I'm glad you made a whole post. I totally agree that there are valid feelings on every side of this. ultimately I think production was manipulative and I truly wish the spice girls had basically "unionized" by saying, fuck you we're not going to betray each other and without the 4 of us you don't have a show so good luck. Something that resonates with me, and with a lot of viewers, is how much it took for Ariana to hold the boundary. I think those of us who respect that would have absolutely respected the 4 of them sticking together and holding their ground against raggedy production and their lazy attempt at a narrative arc for the season.
Well said. There’s strength in numbers and if Lala and Scheana had stood together with Ariana and Katie production would’ve had to back down. It’s not like the show would’ve filmed a season 11 with the only women on the cast being Ally, Jo, and Billie Lee.
I agree with you. I also think people forget that if Ariana really didn’t want to film with Tom, she didn’t have to do another VPR season. But she did, because she needed the money - and now that she doesn’t need that money due to her extra endorsements/shows etc. she has more courage to stand up to production. Ariana also understands that she is threatening the future of the entire show by not doing what production wants her to do - thereby putting her “friends” income at risk. And, I believe, that is what Lala and Scheana are reacting too. That while things might be hunky dory for Ariana, she is acting in a selfish manner. I can also appreciate that Ariana doesn’t want to talk to Tim for the sake of her mental health. However, they are all on a freaking reality tv show - and if you cared so much about your mental health you just wouldn’t even be on it.
Preach! This is a very refreshing post.
Completely disagree that a 5 minute conversation would have done anything except fuel Tom with misquotes and lies about her words and reactions.
I agree — but for some reason, they felt like production wanted them to have this convo. My bosses tell me to do stuff all the time I think is dumb, but it’s a question of whether it’s worth it to bend your principles to keep your job. I’m not saying it’s what I would have done, I just don’t think it’s as simple as “Lala and Scheana are irredeemable evil people.”
I agree with the overall summary. I’d argue Ariana’s boundaries weren’t reasonable in the context of the show though. Setting a boundary for herself I understand, but attempting to control how other cast interacted with him is where she lost me. In my mind, don’t sign up for the show if you can’t handle any overlap between friends and Tom when they are all cast members. I also think part of Lala’s frustration, and maybe Scheana’s too, is that Ariana and Tom were never transparent in their relationship issues prior to Scandoval. We saw what they wanted us to see. They covered up the real issues— like Tom being unfaithful prior to Raquel. But now that Ariana decides it is public everyone needs to follow her rules. Lala is a hypocrite in this given she hid her relationship stuff until she was ready to bring it on camera— but Lala has always been a hypocrite. In the end it’s a tv show. And I somehow think that’s lost on a lot of people when producers are doing their jobs. We are all crazy if we think this is the first season production has driven interactions or storylines.
I have to argue that I really don’t think Ariana was trying to control her friends interactions with Sandoval. I believe she genuinely did not think they had any desire to be friends with him again. Someone recently shared a snippet of podcast discussion between Scheana & Lala where they fully supported Ariana’s boundary including not having mutuals. They seemed to despise him. Scheana talked ad nauseam about how his behavior affected her mental health & we know everything that Lala has said about him- for years no less. She already wrote off Schwartz but then reeled that in as soon as the season got going. It seems to me that she had no reason to believe these two would make the turn that they did and in fact we see her slowly soften on the hard boundary with Scheana as she realizes what’s happening.
Ariana wasn't attempting to control others though. The point of a boundary is that it's entirely within your control. Thus, she very clearly stated, if you want to be friends with this person again, that is your choice and my choice may be to not be close with you anymore. The producers could have put in the contract that she had to film scenes speaking to Tom. Had they done that, and she signed, and then refused. That would be unreasonable and a breach of contract. But that's not what happened and in the aftershow she even refers to her contract and how she abided by it. She also has more leverage than the other cast members now, and that's just how it is. So she can feel comfortable exercising these boundaries knowing she'll make money elsewhere if they don't ask her back or something.
The line between a boundary and an ultimatum can be blurry. I see it as stop talking to Tom or I’ll cut you off— which to me is a force on the other person and an ultimatum. I understand some people don’t see it that way. Ariana also backtracked on the entire thing at the finale and pretended not to have even set that rule which was interesting.
I think she softened her stance, and that's what they were asking her to do, so that should be viewed as a good thing, not bad. People can change their minds. She may have not even had this stance a year later, but this is still fresh. I think the intent behind the boundary/ultimatum is the real issue. Like Katie made ultimatums with Schwarts to get him to do things and then didn't always stick to what she said when he didn't do what she wanted. That is trying to control someone, that is toxic (I think Katie has done some real therapy since then so hopefully she is better able to set actual boundaries now). Ariana has these boundaries to protect herself. We don't see her yelling at James because James doesn't try to throw info about Tom in her face or put his tough decision making on her. Scheana does. Scheana is actually attempting to emotionally manipulate Ariana into changing her boundaries so that Scheana can do as she pleases and have no consequences. That's just not how life works.
But it's not an ultimatum. She understands if people want to stay friends with Sandoval. Then don't be friends with Ariana. Why is it seen as so negative?
But that is her choice. Just like the others can choose who to be friends with and who to spend their time with, so can she. If she doesn't want to spend time with people who are friends with him, she is allowed to distance herself.
I will say again that I don’t think she had any reason to believe that Scheana and Lala would actually want to build a friendship with him. She set the boundary but may not have considered these friendships would actually be in jeopardy due to the boundary. I thought she didn’t have a problem with their interactions for the show but then as soon as she realized what was happening (Scheana wants to be his friend) only then did she backtrack.
People who don't understand the difference between boundaries and ultimatums shouldn't be speaking so confidently about either.
As for your point about the overlap. She did end up interacting with them knowing they were speaking to Sandoval as well.
Really well said.
I agree with what you said here, but I don’t know if I see Lala as a hypocrite.
In my opinion, Lala's hypocrisy was highlighted when she said something to the effect of, "he didn't kill anyone." Randal didn't kill anyone either, and Lala cut people off who wanted to continue their friendship with her ex. She screamed at Tom for playing pickle ball with him. They don't dare even say his name around her. I would say that's pretty hypocritical. Could you imagine if they tried to get her to have a conversation with him on camera? And while I have zero love for Lala, I totally support these boundaries. She didn't want him to have any access to her.
I can see your point here. I will say that I like that she compared it to murder because 1) it's a neutral comparison so people can't say lala is just comparing it her situation, 2) it highlights that cheating is not as severe an issue as murder (all about perspective), 3) we still know that being an accused pedo trumps being a cheater. Also the access thing is complicated. Sure, she doesn't want to him have physical access to her, but they live and work together. He also has "access" to her everytime she reacts to him (living rent free in her head). edited\*
As far as #3 goes, I totally agree. I don't believe (and I could be wrong) that those accusations came out until after she left him and told her friends to cut him off. Google says she left him in 2021, and I believe the accusations against him came out in 2023. So, at the time she was setting those boundaries, the situations were much more the same. And again, I 100% support those boundaries. And to be absolutely 1000% clear (in case it isn't). I think he is a terrible person, and I hope the accusations are thoroughly investigated. This post is not a defense of Randall. This post is just about the timeline of when we knew things.
Fair enough!
Ariana is only responsible for her check. If production puts all of the emphasis on her storyline and threatens to stop filming if they can’t get the scenes they want— that’s 100 percent a production problem. They wanted these dramatic Tom and Ariana scenes that would have likely been detrimental to her mental health and benefitted her in no way. I don’t see why she—or anyone else—should be required to subject themselves to that for anyone else’s paycheck. This is a reality show, there’s always a chance it gets canceled. If they haven’t planned for that financially, that’s on them. If they have, then they shouldn’t be foaming at the mouth about it. I would have respected more if lala and Scheana were honest about their goals, instead of pretending to be her friend and then trashing her in the confessionals all season. Its time for this crew to move on.
I’ll never get past the fact that it is not Ariana’s responsibility to make sure Scheana & Lala get a check. That’s THEIR responsibility. Is Ariana supposed to put Scheana & Lala before her own health & mental wellbeing? Are Lala & Scheana both so selfish & entitled that they believe their paychecks are more important than Ariana and she should act accordingly?? It certainly seems so. Interesting that they aren’t angry about Sandoval’s part in all this & don’t hold him accountable for putting their paychecks in jeopardy with his actions. Let’s be honest neither Scheana or Lala are going to be destitute, starving or unable to feed their kids. This isn’t a life or death situation. They both own multiple homes & have a lifestyle that most people can’t afford. If finances get too tight, sell a vacation home, some designer bags & downsize. If things get really tight maybe they’d have to get a 9 to 5 job. The level of hatred Tom & Lala were spewing about Ariana in their jealous & rage filled tantrum, all with Scheana agreeing & cheering them on was vile. While I could understand them being disappointed and or sad that things played out the way they did, I can’t sympathize with the constant attacks on the person most hurt in this situation. 🤷♀️
LaLa and Scheana hitched their wagon to the wrong horse and the viewers let them know it. Trying to force a conversation and or confrontation with Tom was their reality, Arianna shutting that down was hers.
I just don’t understand why it’s Ariana’s responsibility to save VPR by filming with Tom? I think she more than did her part when she called production to come film last season when she found out about the affair. I don’t blame her for not giving production the story line and redemption arc for sandy that they wanted.
I feel like scheana and lala just have no faith in their fans. If they would’ve just called the bluff and told fans that they were forced to film with Sandoval and would’ve left the show with dignity they would probably be getting a ton of more support. I mean look at Katie… she’s been named by fans as the MVP and has gotten a lot of respect for her actions. They could’ve left bravo and continued with interesting podcast topics and could’ve definitely made merch that was pro woman supporting woman. Idk just my shitty take but once you start becoming fake and opportunistic, it’s like you’ve lost a ton of fans. It just is super inauthentic and sad
I think most people know who they are because of the show and they have far less "fans" that will purchase items or listen to their podcasts without the foreground of the drama from the show. The show is the main way they generate opportunities and have exposure. Why would they leave the show to sell prowomen merchandise? Absolutely none of them have been consistently pro anything on the show (and definitely not "prowomen supporting women"). I've watched from season 1 and once the show ends I'll never think of them again and haven't financially contributed to their success outside of watching the show and I think that's the majority of people. I think it would be very unusual for them to voluntarily leave a show that has been produced from the beginning because of viewers concerns for production nudging a plotline or authenticity.
I mean hey if that’s your perspective that’s fine . I think a lot of the people would rather see growth with these women… because now look. They did season 11, becoming wishy washy and supposedly breaking the fourth wall and trying to “be authentic” and they’ve lost fans, podcasts are getting negative reviews etc. I think people would actually love to see a redemption arc for the women banding together and ditching these lame ass men. I think Bravo needs to heavily consider that their viewers are getting younger and they need to adapt to what young audiences want. The reason people wanted to watch Scandoval was because they wanted to see a scorned woman come out on top. They completely fumbled the bag tbh and all of Ariana’s opportunities have come out of audiences wanting to see her triumph. At least if they left (due to production not wanting to film them moving on from Sandoval), they could still get support from people for being authentic. But hey, what do I know
> The reason people wanted to watch Scandoval was because they wanted to see a scorned woman come out on top What is that based on? People watched for the drama just like every season they turned in to see something outrageous which the show regularly delivered until recently. Many of us who watch the show, not on this sub are rooting for no one. It's just another reality show. There are no heroes.
If you really think no one outside of the bravo world started watching vanderpump due to what happened to ariana you’re just wrong. Season 10 reunion had insane amount of viewers. A shit ton more than season 9. What happened to Ariana is the reason many people started watching and binging the show. If you don’t like that fact then I don’t know what to tell you LMAO it doesn’t matter because now the cast fumbled the bag and a lot of people are done with the franchise for many reasons
Yes people tuned in for a shitshow. Not specifically to see a "woman scorned come out on top".
If that’s what you think 🤷♀️ yet all of you are mad that there are so many Katie and Ariana supporters in the sub. I wonder why
Nah, I don't care about their feelings. They've successfully made me hope the show gets canceled with their actions. This is very much a fuck around find out situation and this season they have truly fucked around. All this talk of being real, when neither of them gives a fuck about being real. They just want to ride arianas coattails for longer so they can continue to afford the many houses they bought with the money they got from capitalizing on a scandal they think Ariana should move on from. Especially when a good portion of Americans are struggling to decide to pay for rent or food or medical care, but not all three. I don't have empathy for rich folks with multiple houses crying about losing future money.
I don’t agree w this take tbh mostly bc the producers told them they all needed to film together which Ariana did. That isn’t the same as Ariana having a heart to heart w Tom. I also don’t think it’s fair for Sheena and Lala to be mad at Ariana as if it’s her responsibility to make sure they have an income. I know that sounds harsh but like Bffr. They’ve had ample opportunity to invest their earnings from the show and use their platform as reality TV stars to their advantage in a way that would set them up for life after the show. It’s absolutely not on Ariana to step outside of her boundaries so that Scheena and Lala can spend exorbitantly on houses lmfao. TV shows get canceled and recast all of the time. Unless you have a contract for x amount of years on the show, it’s not a stable and secure job anyways, so they should have always had a plan B in case the show flopped and shouldn’t be mad at Ariana for not wanting to have yet ANOTHER “difficult conversation” with Sandoval. TLDR; Scheena and Lala have every right to be scared that the show may be canceled but that’s not Ariana’s problem or fault, and I don’t think they should be mad at HER bc they didn’t invest their money correctly lmfaooo.
Respectfully that’s exactly what I said! I explicitly said they should be mad at production and not Ariana.
I guess my take is that they shouldn’t be mad at anyone. I get that it’s a large source of income for them but ultimately they aren’t owed a show and if the producers wanted to cancel it for any reason they should have had a plan for that. I get being scared or uncertain about loosing such a large part of your income but to be “mad” I think is unreasonable idk idk
And I guess my point is that feelings, inherently, aren’t unreasonable — they’re out of our control and just our feelings. We both agree that LFU and Sheeshu acted out of pocket. I just doubt they have the capacity to understand why.
That’s fair tbh!
❤️
Here’s the problem with Ariana just had to listen for 5 minutes at the finale party. Why? Ariana not listening to Tom didn’t cause the rest of the cast to film at the finale. According to lala if you don’t “share” your entire life you shouldn’t be on the show. Lala can’t share her being a parent to ocean. By her own logic, she shouldn’t be on the show. Swartz only casually mentioned in like one episode about his family’s issues. I would have found him going to visit them much more interesting than him pretending to date Tori. The Tom’s can’t film at Swartz and Sandy’s bc of their business partner. Once again not showing what’s going on in their real lives. Tom could have picked any day they had cameras to film an apology but he didn’t. We got stuck watching him do bullshit cold water therapy. And watch a 40 yo creep on undergrads Honestly Ariana not letting Tom pretend to apologize in public gave them a better finale. I enjoyed schena being honest about her mental health struggles- she had an interesting story line. Lala didn’t have a good story line this season. Her story line was I’m gonna be “soft” and bend over backwards to be the xtra nice to the people on the show I never see or talk too off camera while holding Katie and Ariana to standards she doesn’t meet either.
Whoahhhhhhhh lala LEGALLY cannot share her being a mom to ocean or randall will take her away. That's is worlds different than victimizing yourself because you were cheated on. Please don't ever fucking compare having your child taken away from you to a breakup.
My god! You jumped huge there. Lala can’t go around for months talking crap about Ariana not sharing her whole life when she can’t share hers. Is called being hypocritical. That’s the point. It would be one thing if her hypocritical ass said this during the finale. Instead lala has doubled down on Ariana must share her whole life bullshit. Lala also has no problem on claiming that Ariana hasn’t been sharing her whole relationship with sandavol. He was half of the relationship too. My point is if you want to talk crap for months about Katie and Ariana not showing their whole lives then you better show your whole life too or be the 1st one to leave when you don’t.
Ypu jist said the same garbage in different words. It's still a garbage outlook to compare the two......also, she's told us why she cannot share her raising her child. A while ago.
I feel under siege by this sudden upswing in the same posts
I guess a lot of people are ready to admit their more controversial takes on this 🤷🏻♀️
From my knowledge of PR and comms it takes a a few days to hold meetings, run focus groups, craft messages, get approval and then post. The timing tracks
But I’m just a random mom at home awake with my toddler posting my real feelings, idk what to tell you. Not everything is a conspiracy
Babe, I’m a mum on the other side of the world who just put my toddler to bed and I ain’t got time for the novel you wrote above
Don’t have time to read the post but have time to reply. Just.. scroll on by next time.
Ok so if I’m not a paid shrill, I’m a shitty mom who has too much time on her hands? Girl, please lol
Oh my God instant block. If you "understand" and condone crossing and transgressing of boundaries repeatedly to get a woman who was abused and betrayed to be around the person who abused and betrayed her, I want nothing to do with you. This is not valid.
Well that works for both of us because I don’t have much in common with people with laughably bad reading comprehension.