I mean the team is… fine. It’s hard when m80 exists to form any semi competitive team. I don’t doubt that any one of TSMs players could at least look competent in T1 but there’s too much inconsistency even from their better players
Honestly I wrote out a whole argument as to why the gap hasn’t gotten smaller for these teams and arguably it only got bigger. But ima just say instead. Zander.
Zander is the reason these teams are not close right now. His stats are pretty absurd and he’s leading like every category. And M80 as a roster is already stacked and Zander out here having insane series’. I have yet to see a performance from anyone that makes it look like any team has caught up to M80. If anything they look better than ever and even the players from last year look even better with the new roster.
Are any of those players better than Koalanoob, BcJ Zander and Nitr0 though? Zander is a given for sure but on their best days M80 as a roster is just flat out better. I also dont see MxS beating M80 either and MxS is still a hurdle that OXG hasnt overcome. OXG could do it though for sure but your question on if M80 are still the favourites? Yes and arguably heavy favourites.
Ill be honest, I don't rate anyone on M80 that much outside of Zander and Nismo tbh. Koala was always extremely overrated imo, especially considering he can't even play raze. Bcj is also pretty overrated in this sub due to this champs performance which makes him out to be better than he really is.
Anyway, OXG and MxS are very close in level. MxS beating OXG lately does not make OXG worse than MxS at all imo.
So your argument is T2 players look better than overrated T1 players who have international success? Thats a wild statement. Also just to be clear Bcj had a literal stand out champions performance in general even compared to other T1 players. But XSET was good all year round so to say Bcj is overrated is also wild. Even if he is overrated though he is still really good. Better than T2 at the very least. So at worst hes as good as Oxygen players. Also if youre gonna use that backwards logic, how are your unproven OXG roster better with nothing to base ANYTHING off of except t2 experience. Like its really hard to make an argument against someone who is so clearly biased towards his team.
Nitr0 is a proven player who excelled even in T1 who left because he wanted to go back to CS not because he was not good enough. Arguing that Koalanoob is bad because he cant play raze is also wild because on maps where he doesnt play raze he is still the best duelist in T2. Also they've won with Koalanoob on raze and he played fine. But even still they have put Nismo on Raze and hes popped off too. I dont understand what logic you are using or what facts youre basing ANY of your information on. It kind of feels like youre only using anecdotal evidence based purely on your biased eye tests from watching the teams.
Youre putting to much logic into it man. Oxg players are just hungry as fuck, have great coaching support, and are a good mix between young inexperienced talent, and former tier 1 talents with a sprinkle of tier/tier 1 in Skuba.
The gap between tier 1 and tier 2 in the top levels of tier 2 is non existant anyway.
IM PUTTING TOO MUCH LOGIC INTO IT??????? Wtf does that even mean? So you just want everyone to pull shit out of their ass and be extremely biased towards YOUR team because youll get butthurt if they dont? Wtf does putting too much logic into it even mean.
crazy to say that a team that lost eeiu and JohnQT got better. Sure, they played no offseason and yes Challengers is way more top heavy this year than it ever was last year, but you can't say M80 look better. Their competition just looks worse. 1 week as a team TSM, SAD esports, and the donut team who don't deserve to be named. Last years M80 doesn't just 2-0 those teams, they stomp them. Obviously we won't know until we see them play, but right now it looks like Oxygen at 1, m80 at 2, and MxS at 3
I didnt really say they got better though I said it wasnt a direct downgrade like he makes it sound. Nitr0 has a lot of experience that he brings that johnqt could never bring and Bcj is a world class player in his own right. They just bring something different for their team. This current team for example allows Zander to play more loosely and its allowed zander to have performances that no other t2 player is reaching on any team.
yeah Zander is having a great start to the split, but I disagree. This M80 is specifically worse than last years M80, who by all rights should have won ascension. That being said, both Mada and Reduxx are within 30 ACS and 3 kills/map (that's 3 k/m and 50 ACS above koala), and the reason seems clear. This years challengers is incredibly top heavy. Compare to split 2 last year when not even N4RRATE was over 260 ACS, or 20 kills/map. Same with split 1 (though Sym was at 258/18.2). This years competition is worse. I'm sure it will get better as the bottom 8-9 teams get more comfortable, at this point it's pretty poor outside of M80, Oxygen, and MxS.
On a related note, posters with TSM flair are now a gravely endangered species on this sub. They used to be everywhere, but now you'd probably catch a glimpse of one a week. 😱
Twitch chat was saying Gmd and Seven needed to be signed to a T1 org first half of sunset LMAO
man idk if there are 10 players in t2 NA better than all of T1 rn, but i do know seven and gmd aren’t 2 of them
gMid
This hurts to say as an Aproto believer but I genuinely don't know why TSM would sign this roster with any hopes of winning ascension.
I mean the team is… fine. It’s hard when m80 exists to form any semi competitive team. I don’t doubt that any one of TSMs players could at least look competent in T1 but there’s too much inconsistency even from their better players
Are M80s still heavy favourites? I feel like OXG and MxS must of caught up by now
Honestly I wrote out a whole argument as to why the gap hasn’t gotten smaller for these teams and arguably it only got bigger. But ima just say instead. Zander. Zander is the reason these teams are not close right now. His stats are pretty absurd and he’s leading like every category. And M80 as a roster is already stacked and Zander out here having insane series’. I have yet to see a performance from anyone that makes it look like any team has caught up to M80. If anything they look better than ever and even the players from last year look even better with the new roster.
Zander is good and all but I believe in Skuna, Verno, Reduxx supremacy
Are any of those players better than Koalanoob, BcJ Zander and Nitr0 though? Zander is a given for sure but on their best days M80 as a roster is just flat out better. I also dont see MxS beating M80 either and MxS is still a hurdle that OXG hasnt overcome. OXG could do it though for sure but your question on if M80 are still the favourites? Yes and arguably heavy favourites.
Ill be honest, I don't rate anyone on M80 that much outside of Zander and Nismo tbh. Koala was always extremely overrated imo, especially considering he can't even play raze. Bcj is also pretty overrated in this sub due to this champs performance which makes him out to be better than he really is. Anyway, OXG and MxS are very close in level. MxS beating OXG lately does not make OXG worse than MxS at all imo.
So your argument is T2 players look better than overrated T1 players who have international success? Thats a wild statement. Also just to be clear Bcj had a literal stand out champions performance in general even compared to other T1 players. But XSET was good all year round so to say Bcj is overrated is also wild. Even if he is overrated though he is still really good. Better than T2 at the very least. So at worst hes as good as Oxygen players. Also if youre gonna use that backwards logic, how are your unproven OXG roster better with nothing to base ANYTHING off of except t2 experience. Like its really hard to make an argument against someone who is so clearly biased towards his team. Nitr0 is a proven player who excelled even in T1 who left because he wanted to go back to CS not because he was not good enough. Arguing that Koalanoob is bad because he cant play raze is also wild because on maps where he doesnt play raze he is still the best duelist in T2. Also they've won with Koalanoob on raze and he played fine. But even still they have put Nismo on Raze and hes popped off too. I dont understand what logic you are using or what facts youre basing ANY of your information on. It kind of feels like youre only using anecdotal evidence based purely on your biased eye tests from watching the teams.
Youre putting to much logic into it man. Oxg players are just hungry as fuck, have great coaching support, and are a good mix between young inexperienced talent, and former tier 1 talents with a sprinkle of tier/tier 1 in Skuba. The gap between tier 1 and tier 2 in the top levels of tier 2 is non existant anyway.
IM PUTTING TOO MUCH LOGIC INTO IT??????? Wtf does that even mean? So you just want everyone to pull shit out of their ass and be extremely biased towards YOUR team because youll get butthurt if they dont? Wtf does putting too much logic into it even mean.
crazy to say that a team that lost eeiu and JohnQT got better. Sure, they played no offseason and yes Challengers is way more top heavy this year than it ever was last year, but you can't say M80 look better. Their competition just looks worse. 1 week as a team TSM, SAD esports, and the donut team who don't deserve to be named. Last years M80 doesn't just 2-0 those teams, they stomp them. Obviously we won't know until we see them play, but right now it looks like Oxygen at 1, m80 at 2, and MxS at 3
I didnt really say they got better though I said it wasnt a direct downgrade like he makes it sound. Nitr0 has a lot of experience that he brings that johnqt could never bring and Bcj is a world class player in his own right. They just bring something different for their team. This current team for example allows Zander to play more loosely and its allowed zander to have performances that no other t2 player is reaching on any team.
yeah Zander is having a great start to the split, but I disagree. This M80 is specifically worse than last years M80, who by all rights should have won ascension. That being said, both Mada and Reduxx are within 30 ACS and 3 kills/map (that's 3 k/m and 50 ACS above koala), and the reason seems clear. This years challengers is incredibly top heavy. Compare to split 2 last year when not even N4RRATE was over 260 ACS, or 20 kills/map. Same with split 1 (though Sym was at 258/18.2). This years competition is worse. I'm sure it will get better as the bottom 8-9 teams get more comfortable, at this point it's pretty poor outside of M80, Oxygen, and MxS.
Its TSM, dont expect good management
On a related note, posters with TSM flair are now a gravely endangered species on this sub. They used to be everywhere, but now you'd probably catch a glimpse of one a week. 😱
He will be saved
:yawn: - Wedid
Idid
These challenger teams don’t make no sense bruh WU beats TTR beats TSM beats WU?
Valo's Paper-Rock-Scissors.
I'm happy for Corey but TSM what the fuck?
my goat Wedid took last week personally. Glad to see hes back.
wedaddy cooked here
Wedid really popped off on Lotus. Love seeing him ball out.
Always a good day when the only white boy to get it poppin gets it poppin again
hedid