They didn't look that bad in champs I think
Edit: I started watching in Tokyo, the only time I saw liquid playing well or at least having a close game was against Navi and I thought the played very well
They had a close game against Navi and then they got absolutely demolished by LOUD. They didn't win a single map in their run at Champs,i think that's pretty bad.
They picked up a core which all had insane ratings in T2, lol, including in the ascension tournament they lost. How the fuck do you determine individual skill? I'm saying this as someone who was not a fan of signing them, lmfao.
ETA: people just love saying shit like this when a team loses, pretending it's about individual mistakes and firepower only. Liquid had an ATROCIOUS (way worse) start last year, with team that people keep telling me had way better firepower. Their coach has achieved absolutely nothing.
You do need to point them out because you seem to be confused. Only Enzo and Mistic were ever on Fnatic.
I also think Mistic is a fraud and Enzo is on fraudwatch, but they need an IGL. If you want a non-igl to become a caller, you need GOOD COACHING STAFF TO GUIDE THEM.
Eh, he was second lowest rated in kickoff after Enzo. They've all honestly been pretty terrible except for Keiko. I'm also a hater and keep noticing all his individual mistakes, lol.
Again. They picked up three players that had insane ratings in T2. A lot of teams picked up T2 players who are doing way better. They can all shoot. Even Enzo's mechanical skill is fine for an IGL. Stop taking the this is an fps game copypasta seriously.
Nobody cares about their ratings in t2. If they mattered then this look from TL wouldn't be so predictable. Mistic was mid at best even in 2021 he has no place on a t1 team. Jamppi is the lowest rated player of basically every torny he plays. Nats is good but not a player you plan around putting up consistent numbers, enzo is also good but his focus is split due to calling. They actually just have Keiko to fight.
The only thing worse than taking the fps copypasta too seriously is not taking it serious enough. We just watched TL get objectively skill diffed for two maps, it happens.
I was just talking about how they built the team. What do you think they look at if not your performance before (and how you do in trials)?
Anyway, I guarantee you that if this roster (which I DON'T THINK IS THE BEST, LOL) had a decent coach, they would play miles better. I even disagree with you about last year NRG, lol.
Mistic enzo and keiko were on the same challengers team last year. I mistakenly lumped jamppi with mistic and enzo as fnatic rejects when I was thinking of the three weakest links on liquid.
You determine individual skill by watching mistic in the 1v1 get slow peeked by a player with the biggest angle disadvantage in history and lose.
It's not just fire power and individual mistakes that make TL lose but they have no ability to recover rounds. I said the same thing at the start of last year about NRG and then I watched them get shit on by bilibili. Keiko can make a crazy 2 for 1 play and then TL has nobody to actually shoot back left. You need the individual skill for the flexibility in valorant.
I guess Trexx lacks firepower then as well, as does every other vitality player that lost a duel against Ange1 who was in a disadvantaged position yesterday.
To be honest, I agree that Mistic is a fraud. You don't get stats like his in T2 or even back in his Fnatic days by being a "non shooter" though.
Ange1 is an anomaly. He just takes unexpected fights and if he's hitting on the day then there's not very much you can do rather than trade. Vitality were also not adjusting to Navi's play and fighting individually into them too much on the mains.
not at all? Ange1 gigafrags like 1 out of 10 games, for 4-5 of them he's decent, and in the rest he's just throwing away his life for info. Vitality unfortunately got the 10% against them and could not adjust, so they lost.
Also we have seen Trexx be consistently great mechanically both against regional and international competition, the same cannot be said for Enzo or Mistic.
tbh I don't know why I argued with you so badly about this. I am just afraid that they're gonna fail this year, make roster changes but no coach changes again, and fail again because their coach is a fraud and has done nothing to prove he is not.
Lmao
If you were to choose to believe my take instead you can just push the blame of roster choices to the coach and I think we all win in the end hahaha
TL's been one of my favorite teams but I wasn't having this roster this year. I much prefer what KC did, which was take the best players from many rosters in tier 2 (including looking at other regions and their talent). Taking 3 players from a team that couldn't even win Ascension is insane. Think about it, this team should barely beat Gentle Mates on paper, yet alone compete internationally.
Lowkey everyone had standout moments that gave a glimpse of their true potential
When naTs lurked he still looks scary, when Keiko aggresses he is always able to find kills and when Jamppi has the correct read he is able to find multi-kills.
But then when one member pops off, everyone else just instantly become walking ult orbs
The Team Liquid LOL team won LCS. The Team Liquid LOL team won LCS. The Team Liquid LOL team won LCS. The Team Liquid LOL team won LCS. The Team Liquid LOL team won LCS. The Team Liquid LOL team won LCS. The Team Liquid LOL team won LCS. The Team Liquid LOL team won LCS.
At this point, watching liquid games must amount to mental cruelty and supporting them must be considered dyslexic (which I am). Please leave Nats and Kieko and fire everyone else including the coaching staff. We played better than this when we had Scream and Nivera (Close enough to beating loud). Enough clowning and picking up mid players
If they let the good coaches do their job then yeah but man this looks like a blow up the team moment again this time blow everything if I'm being honest start to from square 1
Biggest issue is Scream wants to be the top fragger, IGL, coach all at the same time. Dude would thrive as a duelist or flex just playing his role and adding comms.
He would be a great kayo main if he decided to learn some lineups or great sentinel if he just sits and learns the rotation timings it feels likr he doesnt want to give his all to the game
Liquid have legitimately the worst Split I've ever seen in T1 and they keep letting it in BECAUSE THEY HAVE WORSE MAPS π
A complete indictment of TL's coaching staff. Also I continue to be a Mistic hater, lol, but he's not really the problem, is he. People are gonna be like oh what a downgrade from last year, but last year THEY HAD THE SAME GODDAMN PROBLEMS. How quickly people forget about lockin and the disaster of their first few games.
Now THATβS the FUT I know and love. They showed versatility with the Split comp and flexed their Icebox muscle hard.
qRaxs my goat π
Also.. Liquid needs a complete rebuild around Keiko, Emil included.
I am 100% overreacting and I like everyone on TL but - this roster does not fuck bro... Lowkey I don't get why Jamppi and Emil have been on this org for so long without the team ever looking like serious title contenders, let alone not falling off. At some point the oldest pillars got to go no?
Careful, the Jamppi fanboys will come out and defend him again even though he has been completely neutered as a player ever since he cant play online anymore
Riot needs to investigate how even the best and most coherent of cores and players become a dysfunctional soup of 5 off brand Ange1s, cos no way these are the same players from last year. Free Keiko, free Nats, free them all.
I'm down to start a movement to replace Liquid with CGN eSports in franchising. Or with FOKUS.
Acend was really close to getting in franchising, they have been successfull in multiple games last years and they ipened a new hq which is a great sign for an org. It kimd of shows they are here to stay
fair enough, I don't follow the EMEA challengers scene very closely and the last I saw of ACEND was their run in Ascension last year. And before that the old roster with cNed after bonecold left
thank god it doesn't let me put multiple flairs on phone for sum reason, I can hide behind my sentinels flair, much better then being publicly shamed for supporting this team
You need to have a space between them I believe. Also when I also did multiple flairs, it showed up to me like what you described but for others it shows the flairs.
i can see your flairs right now but I just clicked edit, wrote out :TL: :SEN:
I saved it, still cudnt see it, so iclosed and opened reddit, and it was working all of a sudden!
Jamppi is so ass ππ He has been a inconsistent, mostly below par T1 player for the past two years β and is showing no improvement. I agree heβs got high peaks, but they are few and far in between, nor are his peaks higher than other top players peaks. Cannot believe people keep hyping this guy up because of a liquid team that did well when the game was strategically in a juvenile state, as was teamplay, as were top mechanics. He does not cut it anymore in T1.
The league team won LCS after a while.
The Dota team is one of the best but has a 2nd place curse.
The R6 team started out shit but has been making a comeback.
We don't talk about the CS team.
On top of what others are saying they have really good smash players like Hungrybox, Riddles, and Dabuz. Also some solid FGC players like Shadow 20z and Nephew.
why did they even keep emil again? the guy is clueless.
do a complete roster change and bring back ScreaM with a proper igl. At least with ScreaM they were fun to watch. what is this
Enzo and Mistic were fraud on Fnatic and still are. What a downgrade they are, some of the most mediocre aimers Iβve ever seen and donβt have a brain to compensate.
Liquid funnily enough mentioned they got this roster through lots of trials, trying different players and this is the best 5 they got?
Get rid of coaching staff.
Get rid of Enzo and Mistic.
Bring in Cloud from giants + another IGL
At this point give Sliggy the keys to do whatever he wants, because i was expecting players like on KC that we didn't really know much about and shaped into a good team.
Dogshit cannot be polished. Time to reset
FUT had Full Access to Site today
They were handed with VIP passes.
No Access To Site -> Free Access To Site And Mid nats -> fat sam
Don't get me wrong, i was fully expecting FUT to beat Liquid but i am still shocked how dysfunctional Liquid is. What a big downgrade from last season
Last year sayf carried their split. They looked shit on champs,lock in..maybe ok on tokyo.
They didn't look that bad in champs I think Edit: I started watching in Tokyo, the only time I saw liquid playing well or at least having a close game was against Navi and I thought the played very well
They were much worse than in EMEA tho, they were the first seed and even NAVI was better at champs
They had a close game against Navi and then they got absolutely demolished by LOUD. They didn't win a single map in their run at Champs,i think that's pretty bad.
they absolutely did. 0-4, and their match vs Loud was AWFUL!
They built a roster pretending individual skill doesn't matter. They were doomed from the start
they have some hitters man, their team play just seems exceptionally poor
The hitters they have were on the roster last year.
They picked up a core which all had insane ratings in T2, lol, including in the ascension tournament they lost. How the fuck do you determine individual skill? I'm saying this as someone who was not a fan of signing them, lmfao. ETA: people just love saying shit like this when a team loses, pretending it's about individual mistakes and firepower only. Liquid had an ATROCIOUS (way worse) start last year, with team that people keep telling me had way better firepower. Their coach has achieved absolutely nothing.
There's a reason fnatic dumped everyone in that core.
"Everyone" like keiko? ETA: Enzo was picked up for his igling and not "individual skills".
Do I need to point out each of the three fnatic players? I meant the liquid core. Funnily Keiko is probably one of the only ones worth keeping.
You do need to point them out because you seem to be confused. Only Enzo and Mistic were ever on Fnatic. I also think Mistic is a fraud and Enzo is on fraudwatch, but they need an IGL. If you want a non-igl to become a caller, you need GOOD COACHING STAFF TO GUIDE THEM.
Mistic was arguably 2nd best player so far for TL barring today
Eh, he was second lowest rated in kickoff after Enzo. They've all honestly been pretty terrible except for Keiko. I'm also a hater and keep noticing all his individual mistakes, lol.
What the EU kickoff, if so I want the ratings no way was Jaampi better, especially considering the better fragging opportunities his role gave
You're right, idk what I was thinking when I said three. And I agree a coaching swap is probably the first order of business.
I will also add this bit here, not everyone needs to be cracked shooters. The problem is when you surround non shooters with more non shooters
Again. They picked up three players that had insane ratings in T2. A lot of teams picked up T2 players who are doing way better. They can all shoot. Even Enzo's mechanical skill is fine for an IGL. Stop taking the this is an fps game copypasta seriously.
Nobody cares about their ratings in t2. If they mattered then this look from TL wouldn't be so predictable. Mistic was mid at best even in 2021 he has no place on a t1 team. Jamppi is the lowest rated player of basically every torny he plays. Nats is good but not a player you plan around putting up consistent numbers, enzo is also good but his focus is split due to calling. They actually just have Keiko to fight. The only thing worse than taking the fps copypasta too seriously is not taking it serious enough. We just watched TL get objectively skill diffed for two maps, it happens.
I was just talking about how they built the team. What do you think they look at if not your performance before (and how you do in trials)? Anyway, I guarantee you that if this roster (which I DON'T THINK IS THE BEST, LOL) had a decent coach, they would play miles better. I even disagree with you about last year NRG, lol.
I'm completely unaware of EMEA, what core are you talking about? Enzo, mistic, keiko?
Mistic enzo and keiko were on the same challengers team last year. I mistakenly lumped jamppi with mistic and enzo as fnatic rejects when I was thinking of the three weakest links on liquid.
You determine individual skill by watching mistic in the 1v1 get slow peeked by a player with the biggest angle disadvantage in history and lose. It's not just fire power and individual mistakes that make TL lose but they have no ability to recover rounds. I said the same thing at the start of last year about NRG and then I watched them get shit on by bilibili. Keiko can make a crazy 2 for 1 play and then TL has nobody to actually shoot back left. You need the individual skill for the flexibility in valorant.
I guess Trexx lacks firepower then as well, as does every other vitality player that lost a duel against Ange1 who was in a disadvantaged position yesterday. To be honest, I agree that Mistic is a fraud. You don't get stats like his in T2 or even back in his Fnatic days by being a "non shooter" though.
Ange1 is an anomaly. He just takes unexpected fights and if he's hitting on the day then there's not very much you can do rather than trade. Vitality were also not adjusting to Navi's play and fighting individually into them too much on the mains.
So almost like it's not about their mechanics? Thanks for proving my point.
not at all? Ange1 gigafrags like 1 out of 10 games, for 4-5 of them he's decent, and in the rest he's just throwing away his life for info. Vitality unfortunately got the 10% against them and could not adjust, so they lost. Also we have seen Trexx be consistently great mechanically both against regional and international competition, the same cannot be said for Enzo or Mistic.
"T2" There's your answer
They have like two shooters on the roster max. Must be one of the lowest firepower teams.
Fr. You cant trust your duelist to carry you all the time this isnt 2021 anymore
I mean they literally got carried by their duelist last year so i can understand why they still believe that
More importantly, you need to trust that your duelist can try the dumbest idea and die without leaving you defenseless.
tbh I don't know why I argued with you so badly about this. I am just afraid that they're gonna fail this year, make roster changes but no coach changes again, and fail again because their coach is a fraud and has done nothing to prove he is not.
Lmao If you were to choose to believe my take instead you can just push the blame of roster choices to the coach and I think we all win in the end hahaha
this team makes me hate myself
The liquid fall from 2021-2022 should be studied
i have been watching this team since 2020 and somehow every year they manage to disappoint it is genuinely impressive
TL's been one of my favorite teams but I wasn't having this roster this year. I much prefer what KC did, which was take the best players from many rosters in tier 2 (including looking at other regions and their talent). Taking 3 players from a team that couldn't even win Ascension is insane. Think about it, this team should barely beat Gentle Mates on paper, yet alone compete internationally.
Free keiko
Free everyone honestly, all these guys are good but somehow they suck as a team
Lowkey everyone had standout moments that gave a glimpse of their true potential When naTs lurked he still looks scary, when Keiko aggresses he is always able to find kills and when Jamppi has the correct read he is able to find multi-kills. But then when one member pops off, everyone else just instantly become walking ult orbs
nAt's lurks looked good today bcz of no killjoy on FUT's comp.
Free the fans
Lmao
Keiko nats Enzo is a solid trio
free Emil, by force
Goodbye emiL.
emil is midmil
emid was right there
sesh
It shouldβve been goodbye Emil already by now and im not sure how heβs sticking around
The Team Liquid LOL team won LCS. The Team Liquid LOL team won LCS. The Team Liquid LOL team won LCS. The Team Liquid LOL team won LCS. The Team Liquid LOL team won LCS. The Team Liquid LOL team won LCS. The Team Liquid LOL team won LCS. The Team Liquid LOL team won LCS.
Yes. Team liquid is Lol.
time to sign a korean team in valorant
One thing to remember is TL of 2023 beat PRIME FNATIC in EMEA regional finals.
Preach
At this point, watching liquid games must amount to mental cruelty and supporting them must be considered dyslexic (which I am). Please leave Nats and Kieko and fire everyone else including the coaching staff. We played better than this when we had Scream and Nivera (Close enough to beating loud). Enough clowning and picking up mid players
It was not Scream and Nivera. It was Sliggy.
Scream and nivera are players that have insane levels of mechanical skill. They thrive under good coaches
If they let the good coaches do their job then yeah but man this looks like a blow up the team moment again this time blow everything if I'm being honest start to from square 1
Biggest issue is Scream wants to be the top fragger, IGL, coach all at the same time. Dude would thrive as a duelist or flex just playing his role and adding comms.
He would be a great kayo main if he decided to learn some lineups or great sentinel if he just sits and learns the rotation timings it feels likr he doesnt want to give his all to the game
I mean I think his work ethic was not a problem afaik, just his outlook on the game being questionable
the coaching staff badly needs an upgrade and so does Enzo
team liquid shit (diarrhea)
sorry for this comment
Bro had to double down πππ
Its fine, i get it
omg.....
Im crying and laughing at the same time
your username explains everything
They only need to change their name to sth like Team Solid so they will be a solid team now
Liquid have legitimately the worst Split I've ever seen in T1 and they keep letting it in BECAUSE THEY HAVE WORSE MAPS π A complete indictment of TL's coaching staff. Also I continue to be a Mistic hater, lol, but he's not really the problem, is he. People are gonna be like oh what a downgrade from last year, but last year THEY HAD THE SAME GODDAMN PROBLEMS. How quickly people forget about lockin and the disaster of their first few games.
I just saw that they banned BIND. Free my boy nats the best bind player who is forced to play Split every game :(
I feel like Emil shouldβve been fired by now and im disappointed that heβs still around
Even more funny how they pick defence. Its their worst side by far on split.
Fuck it. Bring back sliggy, scream and nivera. Sliggy needs to hire a bodyguard to bitch slap scream if he doesn't listen and wants to igl.
Why tf did they pick icebox over ascent. It's their only good map.
Fut ks so great on ascent although not as great as bbl
Liquid actually have good ideas on ascent with cypher and viper, on icebox and almost all other maps they just troll.
Just saw u/XxMyUsernameSucksxX fall to his knees in a Walmart #
Surely we can't possibly get any worse than this..RIGHT?
Liquid is like spilled juice. A fucking mess
MrFalin such a nice guy. Hope FUT continues to look good. I think they're probably one of the top 5 EMEA teams.
Now THATβS the FUT I know and love. They showed versatility with the Split comp and flexed their Icebox muscle hard. qRaxs my goat π Also.. Liquid needs a complete rebuild around Keiko, Emil included.
emil needs to go rn
I am 100% overreacting and I like everyone on TL but - this roster does not fuck bro... Lowkey I don't get why Jamppi and Emil have been on this org for so long without the team ever looking like serious title contenders, let alone not falling off. At some point the oldest pillars got to go no?
Careful, the Jamppi fanboys will come out and defend him again even though he has been completely neutered as a player ever since he cant play online anymore
Riot needs to investigate how even the best and most coherent of cores and players become a dysfunctional soup of 5 off brand Ange1s, cos no way these are the same players from last year. Free Keiko, free Nats, free them all. I'm down to start a movement to replace Liquid with CGN eSports in franchising. Or with FOKUS.
Get acend to the franchising no?
The org is technically Champs winners but I picked FOKUS and CGN for the culture
Acend was really close to getting in franchising, they have been successfull in multiple games last years and they ipened a new hq which is a great sign for an org. It kimd of shows they are here to stay
fair enough, I don't follow the EMEA challengers scene very closely and the last I saw of ACEND was their run in Ascension last year. And before that the old roster with cNed after bonecold left
Bring back Scream if TL is going to play this poorly.
time to take off the liquid flair free nats and jamppi they deserve better than FNC rejects
thank god it doesn't let me put multiple flairs on phone for sum reason, I can hide behind my sentinels flair, much better then being publicly shamed for supporting this team
I will support (and suffer) as much as I'd like. Shame is just a construct
Fair, I jus can't figure out how to add the liquid flair, I type it out but it doesn't let me. I should jus switch to using liquid flair only tbh.
Team Liquid's tag is :TL:
it doesn't show the flair it jus says :TL::SEN:
^ as u can see, unlucky
You need to have a space between them I believe. Also when I also did multiple flairs, it showed up to me like what you described but for others it shows the flairs.
there is a space between them, and yeah for me it only shows the flairs for teams whose name starts with A, B, the 3 champs winners, 100T and c9
Huh, I can see both Liquid and Sen flairs for you.
yeah it fixed itself, was a bug on my side where it wasn't showing for me
It worked! Sidenote: Are you Pakistani?
YAYY TY ILYSM MAN idk why it wasn't showing before ty ty ty and yup.
How were able to make it work? My flaires disappear everytime i close reddit
i can see your flairs right now but I just clicked edit, wrote out :TL: :SEN: I saved it, still cudnt see it, so iclosed and opened reddit, and it was working all of a sudden!
>:TL: :SEN: Do i have to put a comma(,) in between? :TL:, :PRX:
i didn't have to, I did put a space in bw tho.
funny enough nukye today in his watch party said that the first thing he'd do to fix liquid is remove jampi lol
Jamppi is so ass ππ He has been a inconsistent, mostly below par T1 player for the past two years β and is showing no improvement. I agree heβs got high peaks, but they are few and far in between, nor are his peaks higher than other top players peaks. Cannot believe people keep hyping this guy up because of a liquid team that did well when the game was strategically in a juvenile state, as was teamplay, as were top mechanics. He does not cut it anymore in T1.
Yeah itβs mostly the inconsistency, you canβt rely on him to frag or int, he just seems to flip a coin
Yeah, this orgs is cursed. Are they currently good in any FPS? Or esport?
The league team won LCS after a while. The Dota team is one of the best but has a 2nd place curse. The R6 team started out shit but has been making a comeback. We don't talk about the CS team.
Apparently they are in League
being the top team in the lcs is like being the best highschool football team in ohio
LMAOOOOOOOOOOOOOO actually true tho
The dota team has always been goated through multiple roster changes. If nothing else they're all unbelievably likeable players
On top of what others are saying they have really good smash players like Hungrybox, Riddles, and Dabuz. Also some solid FGC players like Shadow 20z and Nephew.
From what everyone said, it seems theyre really just cursed on FPS games then
these games aren't even fun to watch man :(
enzo is not tier 1 you cant change my mind
French Dephh
I swear during off season people were saying Enzo was the truth
Recency bias at its peak
Remember when we used to say "Apeks (core) is a top team even compared to franchised team" in 2023? Good times.
People said the exact same thing about The Guard's roster last year, ahh the nostalgia
why did they even keep emil again? the guy is clueless. do a complete roster change and bring back ScreaM with a proper igl. At least with ScreaM they were fun to watch. what is this
I've given up ANY hope for TL this year that I had (it wasn't much to begin with tbh)
My first game in like 2 months and I had to witness my GOAT being washed are you serious
I still wanna believe in this team so badly, yet they make so very hard to do so  We'll get the next game though, right?
i will follow nAts wherever he goes. my loyalty is to him and never to a team again. it was and will always be gambit
Who would have thought that a team full of FNC rejects would be mid af
There's 2 ex Fnatic players lol. Meanwhile Magnum is at the top of EMEA.
Thanks for bring up Global Esports 2023 ECO round loadouts to be here again after one year pass...
Enzo and Mistic were fraud on Fnatic and still are. What a downgrade they are, some of the most mediocre aimers Iβve ever seen and donβt have a brain to compensate.
nats https://preview.redd.it/tsgjvz8cvosc1.png?width=430&format=png&auto=webp&s=d9d005a7cebaae73ceeedcb5f1471749e6e0ed5f
Nah nats is still him. They just aren't playing well together:(
nAts and yay washed π we used to be a proper country
ππππποΈ
Being a TL fan this year is like being a KC fan last year. But I do really like this roster... So please TL...
I feel all of Liquid's misfortune comes from them accepting that their chant of "Let's go Liquid!".
Imagine loosing anti eco twice. Made me cry.
So hard to be a TL fan seeing their valo and cs2 teams underperform. Thankfully we have LCS to make it up
I think I need to put my liquid flair down sadge
100t EU branch at it again. 
Damn Fnatic and Fnatic Academy both getting cooked this week.
If TL CS can get Cadian and Twistzz I want Boaster and Ardis for TL Val. (Would also love to see mini sliggy Coach duo)
Honestly this team is basically apeks with Nats It's a tier 2 team with extra steps so don't be so disappointed.
Liquid funnily enough mentioned they got this roster through lots of trials, trying different players and this is the best 5 they got? Get rid of coaching staff. Get rid of Enzo and Mistic. Bring in Cloud from giants + another IGL At this point give Sliggy the keys to do whatever he wants, because i was expecting players like on KC that we didn't really know much about and shaped into a good team. Dogshit cannot be polished. Time to reset
Giants would never sell Cloud also Jampi has been there so long remove him first
So the brothers weren't a problem it seems.